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Conversations from the Hype Network; Business innovation, technology, and current events from a faith-filled perspective.
Ps Adam: Honestly, I, um, I like
to know if I'm in the know or
not what you're gonna bring up.
Mm.
Because I'm addicted to X, and so I'm
trolling it, but I'm wondering if you're
looking at the same stuff I'm looking at.
Oh, I'm curious.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So you're just voyeuristic right now?
You're not posting?
I'm not posting.
Mm.
I'm just there to spectate and So,
Ps Vance: so have you started to see, I,
I've been on Twitter for a long time, but
have you started to see like all those
different people that do kind of the,
the long posts, the, the threads, you
know, the, You know, 10 best practices
to grow your I don't see any of that.
Okay, cool.
Everything
Arun: is a thread.
Everything is now.
It's just, here, read this for the next,
you know, 10 best coins to invest in.
Ps Vance: 10 curated to
what, just like headlines
Ps Adam: and news and Headlines and news.
What Elon's doing.
What, you know Sure, sure, sure.
The politics.
It's very
Ps Vance: political.
Mine is like pretty curated to,
like, VC Twitter, tech Twitter Oh.
Crypto Twitter.
Yeah.
All those guys do threads.
Yeah, yeah.
Okay.
Do
Arun: you feel like you're
getting a lot more from people
you aren't following now on text?
Oh
Ps Adam: yeah.
I'm not following.
I'm hardly following anybody.
Yeah.
But I get a lot of
Arun: content.
It used to be, it used to be different.
It used to be mostly my followers.
Now it's a lot of like my, not,
which is not a bad thing, but now
I'm getting a little concerned
cause like crypto is pumping.
So I'm getting a lot more potential scams.
So just be careful out there.
Be careful if you're, if your Twitter,
the scams have started back up.
Um, and that's actually
the first topic for today.
So.
Big part of the news that
just came out was, uh, the
Bitcoin ETF, um, announcement.
And so
Ps Vance: yesterday There
was like a, there was kind
of like a false alarm though.
A
Arun: false alarm.
Oh man, the SEC, really,
really bad, bad luck.
So, um, the SEC's Twitter
account got hacked yesterday.
Or so they say.
I think what ended up happening
was I think they jumped the gun.
They jumped the gun.
That's the conspiracy theory.
And it's easy to blame it on a hack.
Yeah, yeah.
Who, who was able to
resolve a hack that quickly?
Exactly.
They announced it and said,
oh yeah, we got hacked.
Like, immediately.
Right.
The best crack team.
But, I think they jumped the gun.
Do you think it's that
Ps Adam: easy to hack Twitter?
Arun: So the way that they explained
it is that somebody just got access
to the phone and then once you, if
you don't have like multi factor like
set up on your, which everybody should
by the way, on all your accounts, but
if you don't, then you know, somebody
gets access to your phone, they can
Ps Vance: do all this stuff.
A lot of people are getting hacked because
of just, um, is it phising or phishing?
Yeah, phishing.
phishing schemes and things like that.
They'll mask saying, Hey, um, we're
going to shut down your account
if you don't update this thing.
And then you authenticate through
their platform and it will look
like meta or it'll look like X a
lot of people get faked by that.
Yeah.
And that's still your password.
And then you won't have access.
But it was funny because I was
seeing so many memes on like
the government getting hacked.
How are you going to protect
Americans if you can't even protect
your Twitter, your ex account?
Ps Adam: Yeah, that's not a good look.
Like if they didn't actually get
hacked and they're just blaming
the hack, what you're blaming is
actually worse than the reality.
It's worse.
Arun: But good news is it did
get announced today, officially.
Wow.
So Bitcoin ETF.
Huge.
It's a big thing.
So is Bitcoin
Ps Vance: spiking
Arun: today?
Um, I don't know what the.
is spiking off the news.
And I think the reason it's
moving is because now people
think Bitcoin got theirs.
Ethereum is going to get their ETF.
Um, so I think it's moving, but we'll see.
I mean, Crypto has arrived, baby.
It's here to stay.
Ps Adam: It's back.
It was almost dead in the water.
It was pretty much lifeless.
Uh, but you know, those who were,
those who were super bullish,
like were true disciples.
They were, they were definitely focused.
And, uh, I wasn't.
Can I just be the guy to say I, I was,
I had no belief it was coming back.
I thought that season was done.
Um, but, uh, look, I'm happy to say
when I'm wrong, look, it's back.
Ps Vance: That's good.
So Arun, are we seeing, like, the, the
whole industry rise from the tide here?
Like, we're talking
like Chainlink, Solana.
Polka dot, I don't know, like all
the other projects that are maybe
not, um, on Bitcoin's level yet, but
you know, all the secondary ones.
Yeah,
Arun: yeah, yeah.
So the market is kind of moving together.
I think what happened was with the
anticipation of the ETF, the market kind
of went in and now it's kind of priced in.
So I don't know how much more
it'll move, but we also have the
Bitcoin halving, which is like
another big marker in crypto cycles.
So that is like the next,
so this is kind of like.
So, in my mind, like a teaser to what's to
come and then now we have the next wave.
So now all these projects
are kind of moving together.
So, it's a really interesting time.
So, you're going to start hearing a lot
Ps Vance: more.
So break it down, why is this significant?
That it's incorporated into an ETF?
Educators.
Why are we saying like, oh it's arrived?
Like what's the significance of this?
So I
Arun: think, so the biggest thing
right now is, and I always compare
this to like, oh, What I do versus
what my mom and dad can do, right?
So like my mom and dad, like this
whole idea of crypto being able to
maintain your own addresses, private
keys, all that is very complicated.
So a lot of people, even the
going through Coinbase is
still a little bit complicated.
So investing into Bitcoin, still
not there for everybody, right?
Uh, but an ETF allows people to not
have to manage any of that and still
get exposure into investing in Bitcoin.
So the thing that got announced today
is a spot ETF for Bitcoin, which
means they'll actually be holding.
Like Bitcoin.
Yep, and then you can invest in that now
So now you can invest in an entity that is
Ps Adam: holding Bitcoin added security
more stability But this actually I mean
the whole crypto market wins out of this.
Mm hmm You know coinbase all the
providers different things like that.
They they all win.
So it's it is a big it's
a big day for crypto Yeah,
Arun: it's a big day for crypto and
we'll see I mean like Now that the
money is starting to come back now,
people are building, people that,
this is a call to all the people that
are building front end services for
crypto, to make it easier for crypto.
There's infrastructure out there, but
we need to make it easier for my mom.
So, this is a call to help my mom
Ps Vance: get into crypto.
Does this move the needle at all?
I mean, um, this moves the needle in
terms of, Cryptocurrency, especially
Bitcoin, obviously as an asset class
is an investment asset class, but the
promise of crypto is was way more than
that or is way more than that, right?
Um, pro programmable fintech, essentially
pro programmable finance, the blockchain.
Does it do anything for that?
Or, you know, business
as usual on that front?
I think it
Arun: gives it more credibility, probably.
So then now that the
builders that are doing it.
Um, can continue doing that
work to kind of make it, you
know, a platform that's usable.
Um, I think that the tough part
about it is like, You're kind of
going against the government right?
Exactly.
So it's like there's just gonna be so
much tension to actually fulfill the dream
So we'll see this is a good step, right?
This is a part of the government saying,
okay Well, you know, let's see if we
can find a middle ground and maybe
this is the first step into it is
Ps Vance: interesting though Right at
a philosophical level like the whole
promise of crypto was a little bit like
we don't need the government Right.
Yeah, so it's like oh
this is decentralized.
We don't need no government but now
it's been like and Partly because of
Coinbase, um, you know, taking this
stance of like, no, no, at some point
we need to work with the government.
You know what I mean?
So it's like, it's
Centralized, decentralized.
Right, right, right, right.
Because if it's being regulated, then it's
not fully decentralized anymore, right?
I
Ps Adam: think it's the, I think
it's the classic case of what do
you need a government to be and what
don't you need a government to be.
It's the level of control.
We all, I don't think even a,
a, like a deep conservative
thinks we need no government.
Right.
We need a government, but we need a
small, a government as small as possible.
Yeah.
And what does the government serve?
I think in crypto, what we see is
the government serves regulation.
The government serves security.
Otherwise it becomes the Wild West and,
you know, uh, the bad actors are in
there and then no one trusts it at all.
But if there is a sense of security, it's
when the government has an overreach that
all of a sudden something is corruptible.
Mm hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
True.
Ps Vance: Yeah, that's a
Arun: good point.
Yeah.
Well, that was the first topic on crypto.
I don't want to do too much on
crypto, but I want to jump into, I
don't want to make it a crypto thing.
People think I'm shilling
a coin or something.
So, um, I do want to talk about, and you
weren't here for the last part when we
talked about AI companions, but a big
one that just got announced is Rabbit.
I don't know if either of you guys
saw the announcement for that.
Okay.
So Rabbit is essentially, I'll
show you guys the video of what
they're, um, announcing, but this
is the next big thing in, in AI.
Okay.
And let me show you the demo part of it.
But this is, that's the
form factor right there.
And so it's essentially a
faster It basically does.
And it's a faster chat GPT kind of.
And so the whole idea is that it
does a handheld, it's a handheld.
You press it like a walk.
Yeah.
You press like a walkie talkie.
It has a camera on it
so you can do vision.
Um, and you basically ask it
all the things that you would
hope to ask as an assistant.
And it's not just connected
to like a few apps, like it
can connect to all your apps.
You give it.
Access to everything like Google
Calendar, Spotify, travel, everything.
So is that a wheel?
Is that a scroll wheel?
Yeah.
I don't know what that scroll wheel
is, but I'm pretty sure it's just like
a scroll wheel so that you can kind
of like go through the text as it is.
And then you could just scroll the screen.
Right.
Right.
Yeah.
So it looks, you know, I don't
know how many people want
this on top of their hardware.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ps Vance: It's like a fidget spinner.
Why don't they just
create an app in iPhone?
Right.
Exactly.
Arun: And so that's, that was my
initial thought, but, um, a lot of,
there's a lot of, uh, Buzz about this.
So, it's
Ps Vance: very interesting
to see, you know.
I wonder what's the hardware, um, purpose?
Like, um Why did they have
to build a hardware tool?
Arun: Oh, right.
So, I think the reason that the, um, the
big sell about this is it's supposed to
be ten times faster than when you would go
to ChatGPT right now to go ask a question.
The response time is like So,
it feels a little bit more
like this kind of conversation.
So, I'll ask you something and you're
able to respond really quickly.
Um, and so, like, for example, when
they say, like, order me an Uber.
And then it orders an Uber and it shows
them, but it says, Oh, I need it for
six people and two pieces of luggage.
And then it can kind of do that quickly.
Go to your Uber app, set the ride.
And then is this built on chat GPT?
I think it might be,
Ps Adam: but I'm not sure.
I'm not sure.
So, but they've got hardware,
like what chip are they using?
What tech are they using?
I
Arun: think that's all there, but I
haven't looked too much into their
hardware yet, but, um, it's interesting.
Would you guys use an AI
Ps Vance: companion app?
Well, I just don't like that.
There's another piece of hardware.
Exactly.
Like you don't want to have a phone and
I would want this to be integrated with.
Uh, iPhone.
Yeah.
Like just an iPhone app.
Yeah.
So I can open up Rabbit app and then
just do everything that they're saying.
Yeah.
It can do.
Arun: It's, it's interesting cause
like, I feel like this is a phone,
a thing that Apple and Google
is just going to make obsolete.
Very soon for sure.
But the buzz is, is crazy.
I don't know.
What's the price point?
Uh, 199.
It's a very good price point.
No subscription model.
Okay.
Very, very interesting.
Ps Vance: So it's interesting, right?
Because, um, my father in law
just got the Ray Bans from Meta.
Oh yeah.
And so we were testing that out.
It's pretty rudimentary.
Like, you know, the cool factor is
that you can just, uh, click or talk
to it to have it start recording.
And it just records what you see.
So that's kind of a cool factor.
Um, uh, or take a picture just
through what you're looking at.
Outside of that, it's, that's
really, it's like a, it's a,
it's a camera on your face.
Right.
It's like, you know, it's
not fully multimodal AI.
Ps Adam: Right.
So this, this to me, the coloring.
The shape, the, the functionality, the
button, the, the scroll wheel, uh, it
looks to me it's appealing to teenagers
and maybe that's their gameplay at the
price point of 199, it's a low entry,
it's, you know, orange, it's, it's
really going to appeal I think to a
teenager and maybe they're looking to
form a new behavior, even the model
is very teenager y, uh, the guy using
it, and so maybe they're looking
futuristic to, Maybe get a wedge in
the market that Apple has, win Gen Z.
And uh, because I can't imagine any
of us carrying a phone and that.
No, no, no.
I'm not buying that.
We've actually spent the last 20
years slimming down from a wallet
to everything's on the phone.
I don't even carry a wallet.
Everything's on the phone.
And so, yeah, um, I don't
know what the plan is.
And when you say it's like,
it's like poppin Yeah.
Where?
Who?
What's your metrics for popping?
That's true, on
Arun: X,
Ps Adam: yeah, on X.
On X, so they're just placing ads?
Arun: Uh, well, it's people,
you know, verified people
that are talking about it, so.
So they've paid off verified people?
Yeah, maybe.
And now everybody can, yeah,
maybe everybody's, you know.
Yeah, I
Ps Adam: get really, really wary of
what's viral and what's popping off.
Like, how?
Where's the metric?
Show me.
Who's using this?
How many sales have you had?
How many users do you have?
Uh, I need hard data.
Arun: Yeah, that makes sense.
But I mean, the next wave right now
is AI robotics, like, um, I think
the, the predictions, you know, I was
listening to the all in podcast and
they were talking about predictions.
The big one is, um,
smart home automations.
And which is big for me because
I love, have you ever seen
that Disney movie, smart home?
Oh yeah, heck
Ps Vance: yeah.
Arun: It was like my dream.
Oh, I don't know.
I haven't seen it guys.
It's a millennial.
Yeah, it really is.
Okay.
But it's basically like.
I think they had like, uh, an AI
assistant that just controlled
everything in the house.
Like anything you would want
this assistant, basically for
your mom, it would just do it.
You want food, it'll make it for you.
You want to clean your
room, it'll do it for you.
Like everything was part of the house.
So your, your whole house was
fully automated, but now that's.
What I think is like the push the CES
just happened and I can show you guys some
clips and stuff But a lot of the stuff
that was announced there was a lot of AI
Ps Adam: robotics.
I'm definitely down for smart home Like
that sort of thing, you know Like because
the thing I love about a car is how I
can have it in the driveway and even this
morning like hey Let's defrost the windows
before I get in there that kind of stuff
You know, in the home, you know, set the
Ps Vance: temperature, that kind of stuff.
We use Google Home.
It's pretty good.
Yeah.
Everything's connected
via Google in our home.
And I can, from cameras to thermostat,
um, we have it all connected in one app.
It's actually pretty good.
What do you guys use?
Ps Adam: Just pretty much the Nest.
Yeah, you know, which is Google
temperature, you know, the
nest and the cameras, you know,
all that goes to the phone.
You have nest cameras to nest.
Uh, I have aloe cameras.
Oh, so you, you open up two different.
I've got two different apps.
Yeah.
I don't love that, but I already invested.
I'm not really ready to reinvest to
change all the cameras, you know?
Yeah.
Do
Arun: you stay in one ecosystem?
I'm pretty much.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
I'm trying to get all the
way to my Christmas light.
Oh, cool.
They all go through, yeah, some of
my time lights and things like that.
Yeah.
But I would
Ps Adam: love the Roomba.
I would love the cameras.
I would love the, the
temperature, the thermostat.
I'd love it all in one.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ps Vance: This is where I feel like,
um, there's real, uh, market opportunity
for AI, uh, in, in smart homes.
I think that's a good call.
Yeah.
Because at the end of the day,
we all spend so much time in
our homes and there's a clear
opportunity for AI to revolutionize.
Yeah.
How we do living.
Yeah.
Right.
Um, at home.
Yeah.
So
Ps Adam: I love that.
Yeah.
What have you pulled up now?
Arun: So this is, I think
it might be Samsung or lg.
So this is their prototype.
So
Ps Vance: we gotta get our editors
to kind of put up this clips.
Yeah.
Cut.
Yeah.
We gotta start cutting in
Arun: while we're talking about it.
Yeah.
Um, and so there's this little ball that
kind of, I'll just describe it for the
audience just in case we don't get it.
But there's a little ball
that kind of goes around.
Same thing, multimodal vision.
It's like a little camera,
it's a little projector and it
kind of just follow you around.
I think one of the cool ones was.
It's your pets at home.
It goes in, it feeds your pet, you
know, by accessing other things
that are automatable in your home.
Um, and so yeah, it's pretty cool.
I mean, I don't know.
We'll see what actually ends up
coming out, but like it's a home
Ps Adam: assistant.
Yeah.
Bali.
Yeah.
Arun: Bali.
And kind of a Bali.
Ps Vance: That's, that's a cool name.
But
Arun: are you guys comfortable with.
Ps Adam: I don't know if it's
like just attracted to where I
am, but it keeps coming into my
office and all that kind of stuff.
So I don't know.
I'm not loving that.
Uh, but
Arun: sure.
Another one at CES that just
came out with AI holograms.
So that is wild.
Yeah.
So.
Ps Adam: This, this is insane.
Arun: I think this is the next version of,
uh, you know, Zoom that's gonna come out.
You're gonna have these Stop it.
Giant pods.
Ps Adam: You literally could be
talking to somebody face to face.
Yeah.
From anywhere in the world.
No.
And they look like they're
in that little booth.
Arun: Yeah.
Ps Vance: It's pretty crazy.
Yeah, I wonder, I wonder, uh, the,
Ps Adam: there's no delay either.
Yeah,
Arun: it's pretty quick.
It's pretty impressive.
I
Ps Vance: wonder like the physiological
impact on this versus like putting
goggles and having a metaverse experience.
I wonder, you know, brain function wise,
emotionally, is there a deeper connection?
Right?
With like a hologram versus what
maybe Meta is trying to build.
There's
Ps Adam: definitely a, I would say
right now, if you weren't looking at
that dude and you're looking at the
hologram, you could feel like you're
literally having a connection with
the actual person from distance.
So my question is, will there
be added tech where it's like,
make my hologram thinner?
Ps Vance: Probably, of course,
Ps Adam: make my hologram, make
my hologram have more hair.
Ps Vance: Okay.
Wait, wait.
So, so this is like a box, right?
So, uh, would you install
this in your home?
Yeah.
I don't know.
It's not
Arun: very accessible,
but maybe like an office.
Ps Vance: So you put it in a home
office and then, Oh, so, okay.
All right.
A real use case.
Um, overflow has offices in Seattle, San
Francisco and, um, Birmingham, right?
And so I sit in San Francisco.
And so I'm going to have a box in
my Seattle office, in my Birmingham
office, whenever I want to address
the staff, I come up in that box
and they all kind of, we've got all
Ps Adam: hands.
How about this?
We just put a box on stage
and I preach in every campus.
Yeah.
There you go.
Arun: Would you honestly,
would you do that?
I'll joke aside.
Ps Adam: 100%.
100%.
That'd be cool.
That would be really cool.
Actually.
Like if it, if it's like a.
You know, not that's just one view.
What if it's like the sides as well?
Yeah.
Oh yeah, for
Ps Vance: sure.
It'd be cool because you can kind of
create a spherical version of this
so you can even track your walking.
Yes.
Back and forth on the stage.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: Um, a motorized
version that goes with it.
Yeah.
Oh,
Ps Vance: a motorized version.
So when I move it moves.
Arun: Yeah.
Do you think that would unlock
Ps Vance: a lot?
I feel like that fidelity, that level
of fidelity actually makes a difference.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
A screen versus that I think would.
Yeah.
Make the difference.
Actually, all the way to even
facilitating the altar call.
Yeah.
Because if you could get some
sort of screen look back for you.
Wow.
To see who responded, right?
So big LED on your callback screens from
the back where you can see every location.
At least you can see just generally,
Oh, whoa, there's 12 people in
London that's forward right now.
Hey, I see you.
No, literally like I see you right now and
you're extending your hand and you're not
actually touching them obviously, but like
there, that is much more high fidelity.
That's cool.
Ps Adam: Much more high fidelity.
I think it makes connection, right?
You're not just spectator,
you're involved.
Ps Vance: And
Arun: you guys talk about it all
the time, like deeper connections.
Deeper connections.
And like these, I think AI is,
and AI and technology that we're
getting now is getting to that point.
And like you said, I don't, I don't know
if goggles is ever going to get me to
the point where I feel like, you know,
I'm properly talking to somebody, but
like something like this, or it's like.
I'm just in my natural state and
I can kind of see somebody else.
Ps Vance: That's what
Ps Adam: I think, you know, with, uh,
the, the vision pro, I think just the
transparency, they've tried to make it
more like less barrier between people, but
I still think you're wearing something.
You have to get into something.
If
Ps Vance: you're wearing
something also, I think there is
something to the mixed reality.
That's a little bit more magical
because when you're wearing something.
You could be pretending like you are,
um, doing something while still sitting
down, which I think still causes
the disconnect with reality, right?
Whereas this hologram in a church context,
um, when you're responding to an altar
call and you're actually, and especially
if the hologram, It's configured in a way
where it's your actual like height, right?
And, uh, like depth, breadth, um,
it creates a much more realistic.
Yeah.
It's, it's much closer to reality.
I guess that's what people
are looking for, right?
It's, it's the authenticity
of it actually being real.
Yeah.
That I think makes a difference.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Hmm.
I definitely think though, if you
were going for deeper connection,
this is the most right here.
This hologram would be
the deepest connection.
There is.
So if you're
Arun: interested, it's uh, AI
Power Hologram by HoloConnects.
Um, that's the next big one.
And I think outside of that,
it's a lot of Oh, this, no,
Ps Adam: this thing I saw too,
the, the, the clear, uh Oh, the
Arun: TV.
Yeah, that's cool.
Yeah, TV technology is getting crazy.
Come on,
Ps Adam: the transparent
So what does that do?
What is that?
It's a transparent TV.
Yeah.
Check that out, a transparent,
like it looks like just a piece of
glass, but that's your television.
Wow.
That's your LED.
Ps Vance: That's cool.
That's
Ps Adam: crazy.
That's cool for the
Arun: home.
Yeah.
They were also saying there was like a,
a solar panel that, um, is transparent.
Yeah.
Windows
Ps Adam: for solar panels.
Eventually our windows
will be the solar panel.
Hey, what a time to be alive, huh guys?
Really?
Ps Vance: That's good.
I feel like, I feel like, you know,
uh, the last decade's been like
Ps Adam: Crypto is back.
No, like, like,
Ps Vance: innovation has been like,
Ooh, uh, I can order food to my house.
That's like been innovation.
But now we're talking about like
transparent TV and all that type
Ps Adam: of stuff.
Holograms and scrollable rabbits.
You
Arun: remember when we were
going to those flying cars?
We were supposed to
have flying cars by now.
Oh, they're coming still.
Ps Adam: They're definitely still coming.
I'm signing up.
Did you know that?
I'm definitely signing up.
Like everything.
A little personal
Arun: drone.
I think that somebody was talking about
just being able to take a flight from
here to Australia or here to like.
Japan in like 30 minutes,
and that just be the norm.
Yes.
If that's what I'm waiting for.
Wait, what?
Here to
Ps Vance: Japan in 30 minutes?
Yeah, did you see
Ps Adam: the stuff that Yes,
it's from New York to London in,
I think, 60 minutes yeah, yeah.
This new plane.
Yeah.
It's this new plane.
Why is that fast?
Arun: Yeah.
And then Elon's like, eventual plan is
to do SpaceX, but it just goes over, um,
the atmosphere and it comes back down.
So then now you can do travel like that.
You can go up and down.
Up and down.
Just quickly.
Everywhere in the
Ps Adam: world.
That's his end goal.
Because then you use the Earth's
rotation to your advantage.
Wow.
Arun: That's a dream.
Wonderful.
Up.
Down.
We can see the, we can
see the whole world.
Which is everybody's dream, right?
You work to be able to
travel and see the world and
Ps Adam: Yeah.
I don't know how hard
that is to time though.
If you're up too long, then you end
up in Africa when you were aiming
for Italy or something, you know?
Ps Vance: I don't know.
Arun: We're
Ps Adam: going up again because I
just came in on a flight this week to
Houston and As we were coming down, it
was too windy, so we had to do a loop.
Oh, really?
So if you're coming down from space
and you have to go back up, like,
that might be a little bit hard.
Arun: Alright, well that's great.
That was like all the
latest and greatest in tech.
I don't know if you guys saw anything
else that you wanted to talk about.
But if not, I kind of wanted to
jump into some educational stuff.
Yeah, let's get into the education.
And I wanted to talk about, um, pivoting.
Um, and so I know I have a lot of, um,
friends that are kind of doing startups.
I'm looking into some stuff.
Um, but you guys have kind
of built a lot so far.
Can we talk about pivoting, some
stories, um, as you guys have been
building the church, as you've
been building Overflow, um, where
you've had like crucial decisions or
moments where you've had to pivot?
Would you
Ps Vance: say the church
has pivoted, Vive?
Ps Adam: Well, I'd like to, I would
say we had a culture of having
to pivot, but it depends on what
pivoting you're talking about.
Are you, are you pivoting,
uh, to a new product?
Like as in quitting is quitting
actually is pivoting just a
nice way to say I'm quitting.
Um, when do you pivot or when do you push?
When do you keep pushing through with
a product and keep pushing in on it
even though you're not seeing the
results or when do you call it quits and
say, Hey, the horse is dead dismount.
That's like, I think there are little
pivots that you make along the way, but
I think the context you're talking about
is When is, when is my idea not an idea
anymore and when do I pivot or when do
I prolong the inevitable and keep going
because maybe prolonging is actually
pushing through and there's breakthrough.
Let's talk
Arun: about both actually, because
maybe there's a moment in between
like a partial pivot where it's like,
maybe I'm not completely quitting,
but it's like, how do I reframe this
Ps Adam: idea?
I think that's essential.
I think the constant partial
pivot is the iterations.
So if you're not willing to pivot on
an idea, then maybe you're just stuck.
You're pretty stubborn, but I think
you have to have a willingness to
pivot as you get educated, as you
actually understand the market more.
I think you've got to, you know,
maybe stay true to an element
of, of why the mission, but
there's a pivot in the process.
However, I think, um, big pivots,
that's, that's just quitting sometimes,
or maybe the energy went out of it.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
I mean, when I think about it
in the context of the church,
it's really interesting, right?
Because the premise of the church
is almost like an unfair advantage
purpose wise, because we already
know that it's going to last, right?
It's not like we're
testing product market.
Right.
Like, we know that in general.
The church at large is going
to be the only lasting thing
that we have on this planet.
So there is this kind of like cool
perspective there, um, in saying
that I think it's a methodology of
the church if you're effective in
that and how viable that specific
part that you play in the kingdom is.
Uh, and so in the context of Vive,
as I reflect on it, there's been a
lot of pivots in Um, micro pivots
in our, the way we do church so that
we can be more effective, right?
I think overall, um, you know, our,
our overall product and platform
that we've built has largely
stayed consistent though, right?
Like our language, our
values, our style generally.
is the same.
So if there was a one for one analogy with
like a tech platform or product, I would
say generally people probably wouldn't
have perceived the Vive as pivoting ever.
Right.
Right.
It would just be more like improvement and
Ps Adam: progression.
Yeah.
And I think what, when I think
about in the faith space pivoting,
there was a There was a season
where being a pastor was trendy.
Exactly.
You know, it was during the Carl
Lentz era, and he, he had the
ability to make pastoring trendy.
So you had all these guys go, well, I'm
going to be a pastor, I'm going to quit
my job, I'm going to start a church,
and they realized, oh, it's more than
wearing a leather jacket and skinny jeans.
It's actually leadership.
And so their pivoting was actually,
oh, this is too hard, I'm quitting.
And so I think.
You know, there, there requires in
everything, whether it's starting
a church or starting a business,
if you don't have the push through,
uh, you're not going to make it.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
And that's what I was going to say too,
is that if the premise of the pivot
question is, is my idea viable or not
in the church space, specifically,
I actually think it should lead more
pastors to this mindset of MNA, right?
Yeah.
I actually think.
If I just think about the Bay Area alone,
I'm not going to call out any specific
pastors, but like, but like, if I just
think about the Bay Area alone, there are
like a handful of pastors that, um, kind
of already kind of learned from us and
gleaned from, from Vive that I'm like, you
know what, at the end of the day, at some
point they should just like consolidate
as Vive campuses, to be honest, like if
it was going to be more effective, right?
Obviously there has to be kind of an
affinity and a chemistry and an alignment.
And But in general and an invitation,
yeah, and an invitation, but, but I guess,
um, let me remove it from vibe in general.
I, I feel like in the church space, there
are a lot of, um, 127 person churches
that started off as a church plant that
probably should have been a campus.
Ps Adam: Yep.
I think that's a great idea.
I think that if the pivot comes
from a realization, I'm maybe
not that, that fit of that role.
Okay.
Let's take it out of the church.
Maybe I'm not CEO material.
Exactly.
Okay.
Because it was sexy to be CEO.
So I thought I'll, but the
CEO role isn't the fit.
Maybe a call to be on the
team, but not lead the team.
If you're not in your fit, you
will always feel ineffective.
Yeah.
Absolutely.
Absolutely.
But when you're in your fit, even if
it's not the sexy role, say as the
CEO, but you're on, you're so effective
as, you know, within a team or leading
a team within the organization.
And that is your fit.
I think you're going to have
so much more fulfillment.
Yeah,
Ps Vance: I agree.
Because I do resonate a lot with what
you're saying, Pastor Adam, around Pivot
versus the push, because when you are
called to be that visionary, right?
I think most visionaries wouldn't
actually look back and be like,
man, I pivoted so many times.
Like they had a vision, they had a
conviction and they just pushed through.
Maybe there was a little iterations along
the way, but most of the time when you.
See somebody with the
second, third, fourth pivot.
What ends up happening is
they sell to a bigger company.
Correct.
Right.
And I don't think that's actually
wrong because some people they're,
they're called to like, go on that
journey of little innovations.
That's supposed to be
part of a bigger picture.
Um, because that consolidation.
It's not always bad, right?
That consolidation leads to
more effectiveness, more scale,
being able to serve more people.
Um, and so that, that's kind of an
observation that I think I have.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
And I think it's your, your
ability to push, which actually
helps you handle pivots.
Yeah.
So pivots will draw, will drain energy.
A pivot is an energy burner because
I've had to put so much energy.
A pivot can definitely diffuse energy
if we have to restart or rehash.
But if you've got a mindset, I'm
pushing through no matter what,
well, then you'll embrace the pivot.
Uh, but can your team
handle that many pivots?
Yeah.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
Can
Arun: I bring up an
example from the church?
So when I, um, when I was, when
I was serving, I was serving at,
we were serving at the JCC during
production, um, and then COVID hit and
then the church as a whole, I think.
All churches kind of had to pivot
from, what do we, do we pause church
or do we, you know, do an online thing?
Um, and then the kind of like online
church started to grow and then.
It was, it was like a pivot to online
church, but then back to church, do
you, can you talk about that kind
of segue and like, if you can, like
how, how that was, because like it
seemed like the online church was
like, maybe that's the way to go.
Like you can reach the
masses and that's how I
Ps Adam: still got PTSD, uh,
strong from, from that era.
Look, I think what, what happened,
this is my big time synopsis, what
happened in, uh, and we were positioned
well, we were already established
online, we had an online presence.
So it kind of worked for
us for several weeks.
Um, I know it was a hard pivot for a lot
of churches that had no online presence.
So there was a lot of companies
that made big money to really
just give them an online package,
you know, that kind of thing.
However, what we found is that it
created a, I would say, a cadency
to Christianity that was casual.
You could You could kind of
just flick on church whenever
you wanted in your pajamas.
You could peruse different, uh,
services from different churches.
And, you know, obviously, uh,
Elevation Church, it was, you'd watch
Elevation Church and your church.
So everyone was, you know, kind
of pooling towards the same thing.
And then I would hear pastors
who were saying, Hey, we're
never going back in person again.
More because they had,
uh, fictitious numbers.
You know, they were vanity
metric, vanity metric.
They, they were, they were looking at,
you know, numbers on Facebook, and that
was like anybody who scrolled past the
feed, they'd be counted as a viewer.
And so all of a sudden they've
gone from a 60 person church, like,
I've got a 6,000 person church.
My content is so good.
I'm like, bruh, it ain't, um,
you know, and, and no wonder
they made those decisions.
Mm-Hmm.
because it was easier.
Yeah.
I didn't have to pastor anybody.
I could just preach to everybody.
But there is no way that the
church is about preaching.
Alone.
The church is about pastoring.
It's about moving people.
It's about deeper connections.
It's about the body of Christ.
It's about growing together.
It's fellowship.
It's laying on of hands.
It's partaking in communion.
It's eating a meal.
There, there is so much
more about church than
Ps Vance: online.
That is so good because if church was
really mainly about preaching at the end
of the day, we're not better than Netflix.
No, no.
Ps Adam: And that's what we saw
during COVID is people started out
strong, like being faithful on the
chat in their, you know, pajamas.
And then it was like, okay, I'm just
going to watch and not chat because
chatting is actually quite annoying.
There's only so many emojis you could do.
And then, and then I don't
know, there's a movie on.
And listening to a sermon
better than watching the movie.
And so I know there's a lot of ministers
out there that are still bullish on online
church model apps and stuff like that.
I would rather them say, I'm
going to do some online content.
I'm not doing a church,
because it's not a church.
There's no such thing as online church.
Arun: Yeah.
Interesting.
I want to kind of touch on that as well
with, because the next topic was kind
of like metrics that you guys follow.
Did you guys have any internal metrics
that you guys use to kind of track,
um, That online church wasn't working
to the expectation that you guys had.
Yeah, it was
Ps Adam: engagement.
Mm hmm.
It was all about engagement.
It wasn't about how many views, eyeballs,
how many scrolls, that kind of stuff.
It was really about how
engaged is the church.
Um, and engagement goes
across many metrics.
Engagement goes through generosity
engagement, is the, is the church
interacting, like is there a two
way conversation or is it just us
force feeding, you know, through
a screen thinking that we're
actually providing something.
Um, but.
without the response.
It's like, if I text you and
you don't text back, that's
not a conversation, right?
That was information.
And so it was, we're trying
to look at how are we getting
the engagement of the church.
And so those metrics were tough.
Ps Vance: You know, I think the church
has undergone and, you know, I guess we
could partly thank COVID for this too,
uh, this era that probably wasn't actually
super healthy where it was literally
all about attendance and salvations.
And it would be like the Instagram
post every single Sunday, right?
It's like, man, 573 people saved.
And it's just like literally the amount
of hands that people kind of raised
when they said, Okay, raise your hand.
It's like, wait, how do we
know that was a conversion?
Like, I don't know.
Um, and I think there's less
pressure or less even desire for
those vanity metrics anymore.
Um, and getting back to maybe the
core of like true discipleship and
metrics like giving because giving
don't lie and things like that where
people are like, you know what, at
the end of the day, like these vanity
metrics around my social media reach.
What does that even mean?
Right.
Ps Adam: Do you remember?
I just had a flashback.
Do you remember?
I don't know what city we were in.
I think it was Austin and we got
an Uber and the Uber driver told
us he was a pastor and he just
started doing online church and
he's like, I'm never going back.
And he's like, cause you know, every Uber
driver says, Oh, this ain't my main job.
And we're like, what is it?
And he's like, I'm a pastor.
Well, we're pastors, you know.
And he was like, we're
like, where's your church?
He's like, it's online.
I got my camera set up.
Oh, I totally remember.
I totally remember this, yeah, yeah, yeah.
And we're just sitting
there like, okay, okay, bro.
Hilarious.
Hey, I hope he's still going.
Yeah, yeah, seriously.
Arun: Um, and then I was going
to say, Oh, right, right, right.
So that, so these metrics that you
guys were looking at, um, it was tough
to do, but then, um, this content
that we're pushing out outside of
Sunday, there's still value in that.
So then did you guys think, okay, well
now we can push content outside of Sunday
and then carry on the online church.
Maybe not the online church,
but the online content part of
church, um, throughout the week.
And then the in person is on Sunday.
Or was that The metrics not show
that, you know, the information
side of things wasn't as useful.
Oh,
Ps Adam: man.
You're asking the worst person.
Okay.
Because I have a love hate relationship
with anything digital online.
Oh, interesting.
Like, as far as church,
I'm a big believer.
I am, I am very, very much an in
person gathering, in person meetings,
in person work, in person church.
And so, um, I do see a space for online.
But more as a window into the room
where everyone's having Christmas.
Do you know what I mean?
It's not like you're actually
sharing in Christmas.
Like, it'd be like, Hey,
we're doing Christmas, but you
stand outside and watch in.
And we'll wave to you and we'll say, Hey,
how good is Christmas today out there?
But you're still out in the
cold going, wow, that looks fun.
That's online.
And as much as we could dress up the
window to make you feel like you're an
immersive Christmas, you're not touching,
feeling, engaging in the situation, right?
That to me is online.
And so, Uh, I think there's a need for it.
You know, we've got people
in Istanbul, Turkey.
We've got people who really have
grown connected to the church and
some through the season of COVID.
And so I think being able to
provide that is, it's a nicety.
Right.
It's not
Arun: a replacement.
It's a supplement.
It's a
Ps Adam: supplement.
Right.
That's a great word for it.
Yeah.
And I think
Ps Vance: that people.
It's cool.
I think people were all learning, um,
how to put things in its right context.
Right.
Cause I think there was like some people
that felt like, Oh man, church needs to
scale like apple and things like that.
And it's kind of like, Oh no,
those are apples and oranges.
Those are different things.
Right.
And you've even talked about in this past
year, healthy church grows slow, right?
Like deeper connections
that just grow slow.
Like there was this whole season
and Like churchdom of like
scale, scale, scale, scale.
It's like, I don't know.
I don't know how much that is
meant to like scale that quickly.
Right.
Um, for us
Ps Adam: to be healthy.
I mean, right now, here's a big topic.
You've got church home, Judah Smith.
They just literally moved out of their
building, their only remaining building.
out of their Kirkland building, handed
it over to a guy named Russell B.
Johnson, who's moving his church in, and,
uh, they're going online, fully online,
I think maybe gathering in an event
center once a month or something like
that, and, uh, you know, because we all
know that, uh, Judah's been very, very
bullish on online digital, they've pumped
millions into their app, and he, he sees
that as the future of church, um, which,
you know, I love Judah, he's probably
one of the best You know communicators
out there, but our paradigms of church
are probably couldn't be further apart.
Yeah, I don't see the church as
Communication now he's so gifted
in an area that that's the primary
purpose around what they're building
And for me, I see the church is so
much more than the preaching component
Ps Vance: Yeah, I agree and I think that
you know And maybe we're all coming to
this realization already anyways, it's
just maybe unsaid, but I think there is
a understanding that, hey, some people in
the kingdom, they are definitely called to
be communicators the same way somebody is
called to be, um, a media personality or
a reporter or an actor or an entertainer.
Like there is definitely people
in the kingdom gifted for that.
And, uh, Praise God if they pop off on
Instagram and things like that with that
gifting, because there is a place in the
kingdom to be able to reach the masses
through whether it's entertainment or
education at scale and things like that.
But the church, the local church entity.
is a very different thing, right?
Like, so, I loved your story.
You, you preached at a church recently,
um, in Texas, and it's like hailstorms.
Crazy.
You know, you would have never,
in terms of like a national
perspective, the lead pastor of this
church, you'd never know, right?
But he's built.
An army of people that will
still show up to a revival
night in like hurricane weather.
Yeah.
So
Ps Adam: that's a church.
That's a church.
So we're landing in Houston.
The, the flight had to take off
again, as I said, and it was crazy.
And I'm like, I've never
been to this church.
It's a revival night.
I'm so excited.
And uh, this.
There's literally on the same night
as it's hailing on the way there,
hail, there's a tornado warning and
there was a national championship.
Ps Vance: Yeah, yeah, the
Huskies versus, uh, Michigan.
Yeah,
Ps Adam: that's on the same night.
So I'm like, okay, who's coming to church?
No, no, every seat, 2000 people packed
in this place, packed to the rafters.
Wow.
And I'm like, Because I said, man,
hey, is anybody coming to church?
And he's like, oh no, they'll be here.
And it was just such a picture of, hey,
there's something robust been built here.
So good.
Ps Vance: I love it.
That's church.
Yeah.
That's church.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: That's church.
It's not convenience.
And I think, you know, um, look,
I, I, I think, you know, go for it.
Try something.
But as far as church home, maybe
it's going to be church home plus.
Yeah, they're going to find another
church and watch church home.
Right.
I don't think you're going to get a
behavior where it's like, well, we'll
just come together once a month.
Ps Vance: Right.
And I think that's like the thing, right?
It's kind of like, uh, if we can continue
to innovate and we're, we're, you know,
all these different types of things,
it's disruptive, but there's going to be
a settling right at the end of the day.
And we're going to be able to categorize
things in its rightful category.
So it could be effective.
Yeah.
Right.
It's like, Oh, okay, cool.
So this thing is.
This, this is entertainment, or
this is education at scale, or
this is, um, you know, Theos U.
They're trying to do theology
at scale, and there's a place
and a kingdom for all of
Ps Adam: that.
But when do you take tech too far?
Hmm.
Like when does technology go
too far when our technology is
replacing the fundamental rather
than adding conveniences and
scaling and accelerating something?
Ps Vance: Well, I think in the church
space, it should be a bit more clearer
than even the secular space in that,
shouldn't we go to the Bible, right?
I think, well, I
Ps Adam: think we should go to the Bible,
but I also think that we take tech too far
when we replace the in person gathering.
Like, if I can help and assist
the in person gathering, if I
can make it more convenient to
gather, but the gather is the key
Ps Vance: component.
You're talking about church
specifically or just generally?
Ps Adam: No, I'm talking in church.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Oh, for sure.
Which then obviously applies
into other areas, but I think
we can't take tech too far.
But let's say
Arun: we take it a step further and
this hologram technology advances
to the point where it's not one
box, it's an entire building.
Yep.
And now I can.
I'm.
Not in person, but I'm part of
the congregation as a hologram.
Do you think that was From your home.
From
Ps Adam: my home.
So you're not the preacher,
Arun: you're the Yeah, so you can You're
hologram on stage, and the congregant
also is And you're moving around.
And we're moving around in this space,
Ps Adam: and we're part of it.
Yeah, I think that there is
Okay, so can we break bread?
And
Ps Vance: can we That's where I go to.
So it's physical.
I go to food.
Interesting.
Ps Adam: Yeah, because it's tactile.
The kingdom is tactile.
There is a tangible element.
Okay, so there is a proximity too.
So, you know, you see in,
uh, there's two elements.
It's both and.
It's not either or.
So, you know, Jesus said to the
Roman centurion, who, who asked
Jesus to come and pray, he's like,
Hey, your faith has made them
well, and they're already healed.
Jesus wasn't even there.
They were healed.
But then there's also You know, the
disciples, Peter would walk and they
would lay the sick and his shadow
would go over them and they get healed.
So, the Bible says, where two
or three gather in my name,
I'm there in your midst.
So, there is an element of the
gathering that cannot be substituted,
I think, in the body of Christ.
Good.
Arun: Now, that makes sense.
And I think, I think there's a
portion of this where, like you
said, it's going to be an addition.
So, how can we have the in person,
which is huge, and then how can we
build something that's outside of
it that, That brings that reach,
that brings you back to church so
that you can grow that community.
So I do
Ps Adam: believe what I get excited
about, you know, the potential,
say, of a hologram moment from a
stage, that'd be fun to exercise.
As long as we still have in
campus pastors, it's not a
replacement, it's an addition.
Yeah.
What do you call it?
A supplement?
Yeah, supplement.
Arun: Yeah.
And then so, and then there's other
things that are coming out, like
if you've seen Um, AI companions,
but more, you know, fully digital.
But there could be like, um, you
know, devotionals where you have like
somebody that you can go talk to for
help, you can go, you know, have like
a, a midweek group, but it's an AI.
So you can kind of scale the
midweek leaders maybe through
AI or something like that.
Um, so that'd be interesting to
see, but like, that's all outside
of it, but it's just a way to scale.
I don't know if you can scale pastoring
outside of that, maybe cause like the
same reason you need that in person
connection to be able to pastor.
Um, but there is some concepts out
there that are now, right now doing
it in the secular space, kind of
being able to create companionship
through AI that maybe we can slip.
I think a big question
Ps Adam: is, do we want to?
Ps Vance: Exactly.
Ps Adam: How many people out
there want to not go to church?
I like.
seeing people.
I like being around people.
I like the high five.
I like the hug.
I like the connection.
I like chatting it up.
Yeah, definitely.
Do I, do I actually want, or have we just
decided that people want to stay away and
stay in their little box and be isolated?
Why is tech always moving now towards
isolation instead of gathering?
Ps Vance: Yeah, I think maybe.
Uh, a part of the kingdom thought that
church could be like Netflix and Amazon
Prime, but church actually needs to be
more like the NFL and college football.
Right?
Like if we're going to scale it, cool,
but we're scaling it in a way where
we're still bringing people together.
Right?
Sports.
Ps Adam: So I had this conversation with,
uh, our youth pastor, Ben, and, and we're
talking about our favorite restaurants.
And I was talking about my
favorite restaurant on the
planet is, uh, Morimoto, Maui.
And he's like, is the food that good?
And I said, Well the food is good.
I've had better food, but the
ambience, you're literally a
hundred feet from the ocean and
the weather's epic and the stuff.
So I'm talking about the ambience and
he's getting like, I gotta try that.
Now what are you, what was, he's like, I
gotta try that because of the ambience.
So I put a big factor on
ambience, feel, atmosphere,
environment, as much as the food.
And so I think what we actually
underplay is atmosphere.
Do we want to eat the finest food?
In our home.
No.
So, but that's where tech's going.
Like, hey, live in your little AI
bubble here and have it ordered to you.
So you're sitting in a little fake
room eating the nice food, but you're
actually not in the environment.
Right.
Yeah.
You don't have the fuel.
You don't have the temperature.
You don't have the smells.
All that stuff.
It's important.
Yep.
Yeah, that's
Arun: so well said.
I think atmosphere and ambience
is like, you can't, you can't
really replicate that, right?
Like that, that idea of you going, like
Ps Vance: soccer game.
Like you were just in Japan, right?
So, you don't want to go
to Japan on your goggles.
Ps Adam: Right, right.
The best thing we could, we could
probably maybe make the sounds.
Um, you could probably get a
device to give you some kind of the
scent, but it's very hard to get
Ps Vance: that.
It's
Arun: still synthetic.
It's still synthetic.
You just know it's not there.
Yeah, it's just not real.
Like going to a sports game, like an
actual championship, being there in
that moment when your team wins versus
Ps Adam: you're at home.
Which is worse viewing than at home.
Right, right.
You get a better view at home.
Way worse.
But you don't get the atmosphere.
Arun: You don't get it.
And like, I think that's
a great comparison.
Like the NFL.
Or the hot dog.
You gotta be like the NFL.
You gotta be.
Yes.
Yes.
But creating a product that's
so good, not that people don't
want to, they want to be there.
They want to be
Ps Vance: in that moment.
And Oh, actually sports
is a good analogy, right?
Cause you know, just like you said,
we all went to the F1 in Miami and
it's definitely worse in Washington.
It's horrible.
Live.
Cause you just, you know, one turn,
like barely, uh, for like a second and
then everybody still has their iPhones.
No, no, but that's, but
that's the point, right?
Um, that's cool.
Uh, we're there, we're in the energy.
There's like, Thousands and
thousands of people there.
So it's awesome.
You got all the, and the rivalry, the
Ps Adam: rivalry you wear in
your Jersey, they wear their
Ps Vance: Jersey, it's community.
You're, you're building deeper connections
there, all that type of stuff, but you
still have technology to supplement.
You got the big screens, you got
your iPhones, you got all the
metrics, the stats that you got, the
leaderboards, all that type of stuff
still enhanced through technology.
When you go to an NFL game,
you still got the Megatron.
You still got all the
technological aspects that make it.
Um, and even better experience in person.
Yeah.
Ps Adam: You know, that, that rivalry
thing is, is an interesting thing.
Because as we were coming back from
Houston, there were obviously people
in their Michigan shirts and people
in their, yeah, their Husky shirts.
And I'm like, I'm saying to Ben, I'm
like, Hey man, these fans are crazy.
They're, they're crazy.
They've flown all that way for a game.
I
Ps Vance: almost did.
Ps Adam: Yeah, I almost did.
I'm thinking, are people that
passionate about their church?
Because Most of the time not.
Right, but if, if you had a healthy
rivalry with another church, would you
be more passionate about your church?
Because we know our enemy is the
enemy, but the enemy, it's not like
Michigan's an enemy, they're a rival.
Right.
Everyone's playing football.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
So should we have more
rivalry between churches?
Ps Vance: Healthy competition
is what you're saying?
Healthy
Ps Adam: competition.
We're all playing football.
Right.
But I got church pride.
Yeah,
Ps Vance: yeah.
What you're saying is,
we're all team football.
We want to increase the
value of this sport.
We're team Jesus.
Ps Adam: Right.
Yeah, yeah.
But the way we do it is better.
Ps Vance: Hmm.
Yeah, yeah.
Like your idea, you've talked
about church Olympics before.
Church Olympics.
Like would that raise the tide?
Yeah.
But what's church Olympics?
I haven't
Ps Adam: heard of it.
I just said, well, you know, it's
like a little leadership thing.
Like, hey, as a church, if we
were going to enter into church
Olympics, what event would we go in?
Oh, okay.
Obviously preaching.
Right.
I mean, without a doubt.
But, you know, like, would it be worship?
Would it be serving?
Would it be, you know, uh, uh, atmosphere?
What would we enter into, say, hey,
we do this better than everybody else?
Well, that, that is a
Ps Vance: good, that's a really
good thought experiment, right?
You know, I, I'm a capitalist.
I believe in the free market
because I do believe that the free
market, uh, breeds competition and
competition breeds innovation, right?
And so that's why we get to enjoy
companies like Apple and their products
like the iPhone, because the free
market has produced an environment to.
Push humans to their maximum potential
to be able to produce those things.
My qualm with, and I, I
serve a 501c3 nonprofits.
That's our business, right?
So I, I'm, I'm pretty
entrenched in this space.
My qualm with the 501c3 space is that,
um, a nonprofit can exist not by being
the best by, by just having one donor.
You know what I mean?
And it's like, there are, uh, 2
million nonprofits and probably 1.
9 million of them need to die.
Yeah.
You know, because there's not a
free market system, it's built
on philanthropy and benevolence.
Yeah.
And obviously I believe in generosity
and philanthropy, but I do think that
the system is inefficient because
we have a lot of wasted resources
on ineffective organizations.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Right.
And so this thought experiment
about like, okay, how do we breed
healthy competition amongst churches?
That's a pretty controversial
Ps Adam: thought experiment.
And I thought about it because it's like.
Even the teams that suck have hardcore
fans, the Cowboys, for sure, right?
They die hard.
They die hard.
So it's not like in my
mind it would work bad.
I think it actually makes
people more passionate.
Well, it's about identity,
Ps Vance: right?
Yeah, whether you grew up in that
place or your father was a part of it.
It's not even just based on performance.
Yeah,
Arun: I like that.
But do you, do you understand,
like, just taking a step and
understanding why fans do this?
They feel like they have an impact on
the game when, you know, we really don't.
I'm, I'm a fan.
There you go.
Ps Adam: So they're full.
Yeah.
Church attendance wouldn't be like,
uh, it'd be like, oh no, we have
an effect by being there in the,
Arun: in person.
I think it's one of the things
that Vive does really well.
It's like, you don't just come to church,
you come to church to serve the church.
Yeah.
And you're a part of a team, right?
Yes.
And so I think that's why
getting plugged in is such an
important part of, you know, Vive.
Yeah.
Um, but how, how do we do it so that
like the general person feels like,
I'm, me coming on Sunday, And you're
Ps Vance: also saying that it's not
enough to say, Hey, we're kicking
the devil's butt this Sunday.
No!
Ps Adam: Because let's be
honest, let's be honest.
The devil's defeated.
It's true.
So we're playing a winning game.
So we need a rival.
Ps Vance: Yeah, I guess when
you're playing a rigged game,
it's not as motivating, right?
It's
Ps Adam: not as motivating, right?
Game's already won.
Set match.
Devil's dead.
Now let's compete against
each other to worship harder.
Interesting.
To be better.
To show up
Ps Vance: more.
Let's keep pulling on this thread.
What would a competition system,
what could that look like?
In the church space.
Are you
Ps Adam: asking me?
Yeah.
Oh, okay.
Uh, let's go.
I think, um, you know, obviously,
obviously it already exists.
It already exists in the worship
scene, who gets more plays, to have
these rigged awards like the Dove
Awards, which, you know, I won't
go into that, uh, but, you know, so
there is already systems for this.
I think that's where churches
get unhealthy is in the likes
on the Instagram, the posts.
Is your pastor more famous than my pastor?
Is he, you know, making more
noise and all that kind of stuff?
Um, do you have better merch?
Are people wearing the merch?
Um, like the football
fans wearing the jerseys?
I don't know.
I think that there is, um.
You know, maybe in, is this scaling?
Is this growing?
Or is it the same size?
Ps Vance: Yeah.
Arun: I don't know.
I would love to work this out
because I think there's an app that
you can build to gamify churches.
Like, honestly, you could,
you put churches in a standing
together in the same area.
A rating.
It'd be very interesting.
And you could connect churches too, right?
Yeah.
Because churches are all kind of
segregated, but can we connect
them through this app that's
like, okay, now our attendance is
growing and it's healthy, right?
It shouldn't be.
I think it can be
Ps Adam: healthy.
I think it definitely could be
healthy because it's not like.
I think if you had a healthy rivalry,
you'd have a healthy love for your church.
So even if you weren't ranked as high.
It's like, ain't no way
I'm going to that church.
I'm going to my church and I'm
going to support my pastor.
I'm going to support my team.
You know, even if the quarterback's
not doing so good, I'm still going.
Ps Vance: Yeah.
I mean, and that, that's why I like,
uh, the free markets as well, especially
the publicly traded market, because,
uh, you do have a scorecard cause
you have to publish your financials.
And then when you publish your
financials, the market votes on you
by buying or selling your stock.
Right.
And so there's kind of like this.
Um, there's a system that breed,
it, it, it's not only, um, healthy
competition, but it's healthy
accountability as well, right?
And so, I like it.
Yeah.
Arun: Do you feel like this would,
like, destroy smaller churches
and then promote the mega church?
Because like, it would just,
like, you would drop, kind
of like the Lakers, right?
You think of the Lakers as
like, all the fans bandwagon.
Would you, is that, I'm not saying this
is going to happen, but like, if we
Ps Vance: continue this
Ps Adam: thought experiment.
Well, team Williams still
have fans in the F1.
It's true.
They still have fans.
Yeah, that's true.
You know, maybe not as many as Red Bull
or McLaren, but they still have fans.
And those fans still wear their jersey
and everyone's watching them going,
what, you're wearing that jersey?
You know, but they, they've had a
connection or maybe their first time
they watch, saw a race, they saw it.
And I think it's like that your
salvation experience made you connected
not just to Christ, but to the body.
Mm hmm.
And so it's the environment that
you're in that gives you an affinity.
Um, I think yeah, I don't know.
Maybe we need to flesh it out a lot more.
Arun: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Who knows?
Maybe we inspired somebody
out there to build something.
Yeah, build something,
Ps Adam: come on.
But I think the premise
is rivalry is healthy.
Mm hmm.
That's my conclusion from
being in America watching.
College football, rivalry
is actually healthy.
It builds community.
It creates deeper connection.
When we have a common enemy,
it brings us together.
Arun: Totally.
Yeah, agreed.
Alright guys, I think it's time.
That was fun.
That was fun.
A lot of interesting stuff
chatted about this week.
Do you want to touch on, um,
Ps Vance: FloCon.
FloCon.
Hey, so FloCon, by the time this episode
is published, uh, you will get a link.
Um, available to you March 6th, March
6th, and, uh, it is shaping up to be
one of the best things that we've ever
done because we're doing a hype session.
My goodness.
So we've got so much on, uh, powered
by overflow and partnership with hype
network is, um, going to be amazing
because the hype session, that's going
to be one of the featured session.
We just locked in some incredible guests.
Yeah.
Tell them who's on the panel.
Okay.
So, uh, part of the hype
session that I'm going to host.
Uh, Jen's Jacob, he just,
uh, launched the movie.
He was the executive producer.
Beyond death.
Yeah.
After death.
Ps Adam: After death.
And also the, yeah.
What's beyond death?
Is that a sequel?
Ps Vance: After death you go beyond.
Ps Adam: Yeah.
Beyond the
Ps Vance: grave.
And not just an executive producer
in kind of a part of that Hollywood
scene, but also a tech founder.
Yeah.
Founder of a SaaS company
called Saturation for.
making.
Uh, so, so that's cool.
We have, uh, Lisa Lambert
who manages and oversees a 3
billion fund, uh, which is cool.
Portfolio of companies and private equity.
She is incredible in our
community for sure at Vive.
So that's really, really cool.
And then also we have Mackie Saturday
who sits on the board of overflow
and he is behind the brand identity
of of companies such as Instagram,
such as Oculus, such as Affirm.
And so these are just, we've got
so many more friends coming, but
Dino Rizzo coming, Dino Rizzo.
So he's the founder and
president of Arc Churches.
He has personally overseen the launch
of over a thousand churches in America,
much of which are many of the modern
churches that you know and love.
Uh, in your local community.
So it's, it's, it's set
to be an incredible day.
It's going to be starting
at 2 PM on March 6th.
Uh, and the hype session, the feature
session is gonna be at 5 PM and
then we got our keynote at 7 PM.
It's going to be an action packed day.
Also.
You really go there not just
for the session sessions, but
for kingdom connections, right?
And so we're gonna see hundreds of
people, uh, definitely in the silicon
valley, but people are flying in for
this Yeah, it's gonna be amazing.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I
Arun: know the last one was was huge
the connections that were made I
saw it happening like in real time.
Yeah incredible stuff.
So you don't want to miss it sign
up And so the link's coming out
Ps Vance: Yeah, by the time this is
published, I'll give you the link,
we'll put it in the show notes.
Perfect,
Arun: sounds good.
Alright, cheers guys.