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This podcast and community breaks the silence, shame, and fear that often surrounds sexuality, unwanted pornography use, and betrayal trauma and helps you embrace your God-given sexuality with courage compassion and connection. People just like you share their stories of recovery and forgiveness and experts teach principles, share insights, and provide real tools to help you rebuild trust and develop healthy sexuality. Ask your questions anonymously and expert therapist, Rachel Denton, will answer them and discuss practical tools to help and gain insight as to how ecclesiastical leaders can play an effective and powerful role in your healing. Join Crishelle Simons as she breaks the silence and together we can create a culture of courage, compassion, and connection.
This podcast is brought to you by Reach 10. Reach 10 is a non-profit with a mission to educate and help young adults overcome the effects of pornography and betrayal trauma and create healthy relationships with themselves and others.
Join the community at @breakingthesilence_reach10 or visit reach10.org.
We share these views to open the dialogue and educate on these tough issues and to create a healthier culture of sexuality. The opinions and views shared by the host or guests do not constitute as professional advice or services and do not necessarily reflect the views of Reach 10, and we don't guarantee the accuracy of any statements you hear. Reach 10 is not responsible for your use of information heard in this podcast. We keep learning, and invite you to join us as we build a more open, compassionate, and courageous culture.
BTS 2.7 Madi Davis - Dealing with the shame of being a woman struggling with pornography
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Crishelle: [00:00:00] Welcome back listeners . I am so excited to introduce you to the Maddie Davis and we together are going to be breaking the silence, mostly Maddie Maddie's here to share her story. And we are going to be breaking the silence on dealing with the shame of being a woman struggling with pornography.
And I'm so grateful that , you reached out to me. I'm so grateful you reached out and wanted to share your story because I. A love hearing people's stories because it's just sacred space and B, I think the lens that we're gonna look at your story under, like dealing with the shame of being a woman struggling with pornography is so real.
And I just, I'm so excited to and excited. It's not even the right word. I wish I had a better word, but I'm so thrilled that you're here with us. Maddie, go ahead and take a second to introduce yourself and tell us a little bit about why you wanna share your story.
Madi: For sure. [00:01:00] Yeah, my name is Maddie. I'm 19. I'm currently, I just finished up my first year at B Y U and then I'm headed out on a mission. I haven't gotten my call yet. I'm actually gonna get it in like a week or two
Crishelle: What?
Madi: so excited.
Crishelle: Oh my.
Madi: I know, I know. I know it's, it's like weird. It's such a weird feeling knowing that like within the next two or three weeks, I'm gonna know where I'm gonna be for the next year and a half. Like that is a weird thought. So, yeah. Anyway.
Crishelle: I also feel like the space that you're in right now, that like one to two weeks where you've like committed to doing it, but like you're like, have no idea where you're going and like, it's like, it's like Christmas Eve.
Madi: Yeah,
Crishelle: But like
Madi: that's true.
Crishelle: so stressful because you're like, I can't live my life yet,
Madi: Exactly. Exactly. It's like crazy.
Crishelle: excited.
Madi: I know. I'm so
Crishelle: that's so exciting.
Madi: [00:02:00] So yeah, it'll be so good. But yeah, I'm, I'm hyped. Wait, what were you gonna say?
Crishelle: I was just gonna say for those of you, maybe not a part of our faith tradition, she's gone on a mission for 18 months to go and dedicate her life full-time. Like this is even beyond full-time. It's like 24 7 to teach people about the gospel of Jesus Christ. And she could go literally anywhere in the world, which is so cool.
And. So stoked for you, Maddie. Okay. Tell us more about your life and maybe why. Yeah. Again, why you want to share your story.
Madi: Totally. Yeah. So as far as like, like I guess technically why I want to share my story, I started kind of getting promptings in, starting in like June, 2022, and it was like you have a. Some kind of work to do in helping young girls who are struggling with pornography. That was the prompting, and I was like, whoa, that's specific.
And like, and I kind of like, I [00:03:00] I backtalk. Yeah. It's very specific. I like backtalk to Heavenly Father for a little bit, and I was like, I was like, come on, like I'm, I'm going. Into my first year of like college. Like I'm just trying to figure that stuff out. Like I'm just not sure I can take this on, like find somebody else.
Anyway, to make a very long story short, I eventually started to act on the promptings and I. At first I was gonna like write a book, but then I was like, what, 13 year old is gonna ask their mom to go to Barnes and Noble to pick up a book about pornography? And then I was like, Hmm, maybe don't write a book.
And so then I decided, I was like,
Crishelle: that.
Madi: I was like, I really want something that's like accessible, you know, that like a bishop or a leader or a parent could just send to any girl that's struggling. And so I decided I would start, or I decided I would start going on podcasts, like being a guest on podcasts and just sharing my story.
Maybe it gets discovered that way. I started like an Instagram and then eventually started my own [00:04:00] podcast. So anyway, that's like the technical reason, like why am I logistically here?
Crishelle: I love. I love that story. And that's actually like how we kind of came up with our podcast as well. We each tend the, like, nonprofit that runs our podcast for a long time. We were trying to do in-person events and like some different things. And finally I was like, guys, this is, we want, we want something that we can share with people and that can be reached anytime, anywhere and like, Not incriminating, you know, like, not like, Hey, I'm going to this event about porn.
Like, you know, like that. Like that's hard that there's a lot of barriers to show up to that kind of thing. But podcasts, I love this platform because it, you can reach it wherever you are,
Madi: It's true. true.
Crishelle: I love that you started a podcast and it is called,
Madi: Sisters on the front lines.
Crishelle: Yes, and we'll link to that in the show notes. And yeah, go [00:05:00] give her a follow, subscribe to her podcast too.
I just, you are just doing so much good.
Madi: you. Yeah, thank you. And for anyone listening, just curious about, a little bit more about like what the podcast is. I basically have young women, so the first episode is just my story. And then I have young women come on and share their stories with their struggles with pornography. And then a couple other episodes just include like professionals or therapists and they just share their insights on, so you can see they're separated from, like the stories are orange and then the professionals are blue.
So, Choose what you want. So anyway, yeah. Anyways. Yeah. So I guess, I guess we'll go like non logistical, should we do logistical legis?
Crishelle: talk about, I I sure. We just made it up. Even if it's not a word, it's
Madi: Okay. Do.
Crishelle: Yeah. Let's talk about you, your story and, and maybe, yeah, go ahead.
Madi: Okay. Sounds good. [00:06:00] So yeah, I was first exposed to pornography when I was 13, and I, at the time, it was kind of just like a billion emotions at once. 'cause it was like, whoa. There's like a whole new world out here, right? It was like, I just have never heard of like this before. Like I had heard about like sex.
I had had the talk, but it was kinda like a one and done thing. And I don't fault my parents for that. I think that's just like, I think they did the absolute best with what they had. And so,
Crishelle: that's how it's been done for, like if it had been done right. It's just like a one and done
Madi: Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. It was like, yeah, go do this. This is what happens. We're never talking about this again.
Good luck. Yeah. So, yeah, so that was kind of, I mean that was, but I mean later on my. I had had more open conversations and definitely now I'm having way more open conversations with my parents. But but yeah, that was kind of how it was up until then. And I had kind of gotten the [00:07:00] messaging from I.
From just like the world and from my specific religion that pornography is just a guy's problem. You know? Like, like it's, it's more normal for guys. It's like, Hey guys, like, don't watch pornography, but like, wink wink. We know you do. Like, you know, and, and so it just felt kind of like more normal for them.
Not that it wasn't like, I guess quote unquote like a sin for them, but, but it just felt more normal. Like I just knew of people that, of only boys that had, that had viewed pornography
Crishelle: here's what I wanna know. You're like, I was in Young Women's 10 years before you were I, and I remember sitting in women's and them being like, we're gonna talk about pornography today, but it's just a guy problem and you only need to know because like you're gonna like date someone who's maybe struggled with it.
Was that still the narrative?
Madi: That was, you literally just took it like word for word. Yeah. Yeah. Totally.
Crishelle: I bet that was so painful.
Madi: Yeah. Yeah, it did kind of suck. [00:08:00] It was not
Crishelle: And I'm not laughing because it's funny, like I'm, that is horrible. Like I, I mean,
Madi: okay.
Crishelle: first of all, this is not a good way to approach it, even if it was only a guy problem, like not helpful narrative. So let's, you know, let that die
Madi: Yeah,
Crishelle: but like, oh my gosh, how incredibly. Painful and like you're never gonna talk to your leaders about it.
Madi: Yeah. No, it's true. And, but here's the thing is like, again, I just can't fault them for it because that again, you know, like that was the generation they grew up in. And so,
Crishelle: and forever. That was how, like, that's how it was taught to them. That's like 100%. And, and I'm so glad you brought that up because I don't mean to like shame on them for saying that. No. Like that
Madi: it's just,
Crishelle: was. The culture we were raised in and the, and, and what they inherited that they were then passing on to us.
And that's why we're having this [00:09:00] conversation. So that hopefully if we're ever in that situation where we're talking to some young women or young men or young people, period, that that is never the narrative that we're spreading.
Madi: Yeah. Agreed. And honestly, it is interesting because I think that they were trying to phrase it in a way that was trying to be helpful to us. 'cause it's like, oh, like we know that you guys don't struggle with it. Like we know you guys are good kids. Right. And then, but yeah, it ended up, it ended up.
Kind of doing the opposite. And I mean, with the statistics, like if there were like 15 girls in that room, there's like almost statistically no chance that I was the only one that was sitting there and like kind of being super beat down by the adversary of like, So, you know, all the, those thoughts that you were having of, oh my gosh, I'm disgusting.
I, I must be the only girl in the world who struggles with this or hurt, who even has like any sort of lustful thought. Yeah, those ones are [00:10:00] true. Those ones are true. Turns out those are true, you know, and like it's just so.
Crishelle: Punch saying in the face the
Madi: Seriously. Seriously. Yeah. It's effective. 'cause it's just discouragement and it push pushes you like into further shame and further isolation.
And if he can get you isolated and yeah, it's just, I. He's, yeah, literally punched him in the face. So eventually a couple years later, I decided to, I don't remember if there was anything that exactly sparked it, but I decided to set up a meeting with my bishop or my religious leader to tell him about it and.
I went and I remember sitting outside of his office versus like coming out was like a completely night and day experience. Like it was kind of crazy. But I remember I went in and he assured me of three things. He said, you are still. [00:11:00] A daughter of God and you are still just as loved and you are still just as valued.
And I just Right. I know. I I just love that. Seriously, I love that that's how he approached it, because he, he wasn't there to say, Hey, you, like, you know, that like sexual sin is like really bad. Right? Or like, you know, that like, like we're gonna have to. We're gonna have to do some work on this, you know, like, no, it was just, hey, here is what your identity actually is.
I know that pornography has been putting all of these like terrible messages in your head and, and telling you that you're disgusting and that you're, you're not worth it. And that like, they're legit. Were there legitimately were days where like, I just. I felt like I couldn't like, get outta bed or like go outside or go see my family because then I'd have to like confront myself and like, it was just such a, you know, like shame cycle and shame spiraled [00:12:00] down.
And so I remember after
Crishelle: can you remind me what those three things were, because those were so profound, and I want everyone, wherever you are, whoever you are, like imagine whatever it is that you're struggling with, that you're wanting to hide.
Madi: yes.
Crishelle: someone saying this to you and believing it for just a moment. Just like pretend like you believe it with every part of you.
Say those words again because it's so true.
Madi: Amen. So yeah, to anyone needing that. So everyone you are still a daughter or son of God and you're still just as, as loved and just as valued.
Crishelle: Oh my gosh. I just love your bishop so much
Madi: agree.
Crishelle: saying that and, and yes, like no matter, no matter what it is you're struggling with, I feel like that's usually what's under attack.
Madi: Yes.
Crishelle: If so, if God actually knew about this, like he would not love me. Right. Or if like, if, if so and so knew about this, they would not love me.
I feel like that's what we are always trying to hide. [00:13:00] Oh man.
Madi: It's so true. It's so true. And it's, it's everything to do with like your identity. I mean, like God gave us this sexual identity, right? And. And that's one of our most powerful identities ever. Like that is one of the greatest gifts that he's ever given us. And if Satan has a tool that can somehow pervert that and then I mean, it seeps into other parts of our identity right then, yeah, it's gonna be pretty dang effective.
And he's gonna wanna use it like the, the average age of first exposure is nine to 11. And so getting those kids, like, while they are so young, like,
Crishelle: Oh,
Madi: oh, it just makes me wanna like, Box dude, like box Satan out right now, dude.
Crishelle: I knew I liked you. Oh my goodness. This is so, and that's, it's so heartbreaking and, and listener and everyone like, I hope that you can give yourself [00:14:00] so much grace. So much grace. And Maddie, I just bless you for having the courage to share because that is so true. Like nine to 11, 13, like however old you were at that young age for. For you to start feeling that kind of shame at that age
And to believe it even at any level. Oh, that is so hard. And, and you can break free of that. And that's what I hope you're gonna go next. Maybe you're not. And how did you break free of that? How did you start believing what your bishop said?
Madi: Yeah. Well, okay. I actually wanna like rewind because I love that you mentioned grace, and Grace has been one of the hardest topics for me to wrap my head around because, because I would always hear like I mean, we're always like our worst critic, right? And I would always hear like, oh, grace is like, like [00:15:00] you've done your best.
Like you've done your best, like you did your best. And like, I don't, I genuinely don't believe I have ever done my best in my life. Like, and like, as depressing as that sounds, but like, I just know that I could have always done better. And, but I was, I had someone explain it to me in like the most beautiful way.
It was like, yes. Grace is what comes after that thought. After that thought of, no, I haven't done my best. I know I can do better. It's what do you do with that? Like, what are you, are you going to, you can either, it can either lead to a very like self-destructive kind of path and say, no, I could've, I could've done better, better, this is the end of the the line.
Or I could have done better. Let me allow myself grace to acknowledge that mistake and then move forward and take everything I learned and move forward and become more like yoked with Jesus Christ. And so I was just like, [00:16:00] grace, it's still so hard for me to understand because I was like, no, dude, like Grace is for woos.
Like it's.
Crishelle: I. Growing up, I, I also feel like that that was my narrative, like, I'm good or I'm not good. And so I'm not admit, I'm the,
Madi: Exactly. And it's just so crazy because like, like the way that Satan is so good at like hindering grace is he puts an idea of perfection in our minds, right? Just the idea that perfection is even attainable in this life. He's already got us so far down the path of destruction, right? Because. Turns out it's not.
And like we always say, oh, nobody's perfect, but do we really believe it and live it? Like we always, I don't, I don't know, like we always act as if we're striving for this perfect [00:17:00] image or this perfect whatever, like. Sure that may happen in the next life, but it's never gonna happen in this life. And I don't think that's a depressing message.
I actually think that's a very hopeful and freeing message. 'cause it, it helps you understand more of like the nature of God and like, we're all just his kids and we're learning and we're, and we're falling and we're making mistakes. But we're learning and that's, that's all that matters. That's what we were sent here to do.
So, sorry, that was, it's kinda a tangent, but just get passionate.
Crishelle: No, and I'm so glad you went there with Grace. I'm so, so grateful that you went there with Grace, because I think that that is a narrative that often stops us from allowing ourselves grace and allowing the Savior in to our narrative is, but like I could have done better and I didn't, and so I should hide.
Or I should run or like I should be on my own in this until I am better. I think something that's been really humbling for me as I've been reading the New Testament this year is the lepers [00:18:00] coming to the savior. And, and there's multiple, multiple lepers that come to be healed, but like they can't hide.
Like they can't hide their sickness, they can't hide their disease. And and also the woman with the issue of blood, her too, right? Like the lepers and the woman with the issue of blood. And, and I, I don't mean to like group them all into the same thing 'cause I think they're all individuals that. Every, every one of those stories is different.
But something that's been so profound to me is that I think for a long time I thought I could hide my weaknesses from God. I could hide the parts of me from, from God and from the people that I love, that I, that I didn't want to. And in doing so, it left me with pretty hollow relationships or like surface level relationships.
And it wasn't until with God, it wasn't until I was like, really? And I'm continually working on this 'cause there's still parts of me that I'd love to hide from God.
Madi: Yeah.
Crishelle: Like I'm still struggling with X, Y, z, be, you know, all the things. But when I, when I approach [00:19:00] God like the lepard not hiding what it is that I want him to heal and help me with, oh my goodness.
The compassion that, that I feel. Is profound and just like in, just like with the woman in the issue of blood when she reaches out and the savior's like, I feel you. I know you and you are made whole. Like he met her with the most compassion that she'd felt in maybe her whole life and that. That is how he meets us.
That's how he meets us. I promise you, that he that God, that Jesus Christ and the Spirit, they will meet you with love and compassion wherever you are. And the more you allow them to see you, the more you will feel that love and compassion. And the same is true in my relationships. The more I've allowed people in to really see me, specifically my husband, 'cause he's the one who gets to see all of me.
Madi: Mm-hmm.
Crishelle: He like, the more I've done that, the, the richer, the more intimate, [00:20:00] the, the deeper, the more beautiful that relationship has become. And the same how is true in friendships. And, and so, oh, I'm so glad you went there with grace because. I think that is such a real thing that stops us from actually connecting to God and to and to each other.
Madi: Mm-hmm. So true, so true. One of the episodes that I did, I put the title as, 'cause she, she said this phrase like three times and I was like, wow, that's so good. But she put kind of what we're talking about so simply, and she said, vulnerability leads to vulnerability. And it's so true. It's so true.
'cause as soon as you, I mean like that's just a natural process. Like as soon as you open up about something that you're. Uncomfortable about open up, opening up about, and you feel like is some kind of black mark on your record or whatever. Like people are gonna open up about theirs. And I promise, like if, if the people that you're talking to actually do have a genuine love for you, [00:21:00] which I mean I know at least one person who does this, Jesus Christ, then he will meet you with, with love and compassion and, and vulnerability, right?
So, yeah. Yeah.
Crishelle: Oh, beautifully said. Beautifully said, and I'm so glad you went there with the Grace. Okay, so I still wanna know like what helped you. What helped you receive his grace? What helped you to believe what your bishop told you? Because I imagine that as he told you, that Satan and his, like anybody, it can be committee and like all of the thoughts in your head were like, yeah, whatever.
That is so not true. Right? So like, what helped you tell me, tell
Madi: Yeah. Okay. Deal. So yeah, kind of like I said, it was like a night and day experience, right? Like sitting outside the Bishop's office, and I say it was night and day because Satan was working so hard on me when I was sitting outside of that office. Like I remember I had the thought, like the genuine thought of.
You're gonna go in there [00:22:00] and this reputation that you have of like, you know, you come from a good family, you get good grades, you go to the, the Wednesday night activities at church, like. And thinking that you're a good kid, like that's all out the door now. Like he's gonna know that you are some like gross, little like disgusting person.
Like that's just who you are now. And like, it's just interesting again, because the attack was on the identity, right? Anyway, I went in and obviously those were not the messages that I heard. He didn't look at me and say, Maddie, like, really? You struggle? No, not at all. And I mean, I laugh at it now, but it was such a genuine thought in the moment.
But I. And so, yeah, I remember I went in and he said that, and it really did change things for me, and it wasn't, it wasn't even just those words, it was like the spirit that I finally felt, and I, that was the first time, like I knew of the atonement. I was like, yeah, that's a thing that'll like clean up my, you [00:23:00] know, erase my, erase my bad marks on my record if I need it, I guess.
I had never felt that genuine of love. Right. And, and I. I walked outta that bishop's office and I was like, so I was just like so filled with like pure joy, like that is the best way to describe it. And I remember I walked outside, and I don't even say this as a metaphor, like I wish this was some happy little metaphor, but no, I walked out outside and it was like a spring day.
And I remember the grass was green, but it was greener and the sky was blue, but it was bluer. And that was such a huge testament to me of. No, the atonement is not just this eraser, right? Like the atonement. I Brad Wilcox in one of my classes, it was like the most beautiful comparison ever. He's like, sometimes we look at the atonement as if it's some eraser or some like ladder getting us out of a hole, and he's like, [00:24:00] while those are both like true to an extent, what we really should be looking at.
Is like the atonement is like a battery, like the atonement is a power source that we can continually draw on. And so it was just such a huge testament to me that like. Wow. Like the atonement is so much more than I thought it was. And I, I didn't like, I didn't view pornography for quite a while after that.
Like I was just kind of riding that like spiritual, you know, high and then eventually after that kind of like wore off. It was more of like a willpower thing. It was like, no, I can't, I can't go back to that. I know what that has done to me. Like, and it was super fear-based and it was just kind of like, White knuckling it and it was like, no, I know that there's that side of me, and if I let any of it out, then like, it's just out.
You know? It was just such a, that was such a scary part of me. And, and so then I, I eventually like fell back into the habit, like, I think it was probably a couple months later and I was like, I remember the first [00:25:00] time I like viewed it after, and I was like, come on, like. We've been through this, you know, like we went and saw the bishop.
We, we checked off that box of repentance, like, what are you gonna do now? And and yeah, I, I remember just feeling so bad about myself after, but it taught me a super important lesson. And it took me a while to learn this lesson. I did not learn it the first time I, I messed up after, but it was that, like relapses or whatever, slipped, slip ups, whatever you wanna call 'em they don't.
Necessarily start you back at square one if you don't let them. Right. And so like, kind of like we were talking about, like this idea of allowing yourself grace, like the grace is what? It's what allows yourself to like move forward, right? And so when I got to those times when I would like mess up, sure. I could just beat down on myself and say, well, you know, you like you're disgusting and whatever.
Or I could say, Hey, I am like [00:26:00] human. I'm learning. And what can I learn from this? Where exactly was I? Like what time of day was it? What was, what like emotions was I feeling before? Just everything like that and getting super analytical about it and looking at it as an opportunity to learn and to grow.
And so that did help, but I was still like, struggling with it and like genuinely I do not think that I like started true, I guess recovery or, or whatever you would like to call it. I don't have a good term for it, but until I started like connecting with people, and doing stuff like this.
And, and that was my answer, right? Like, that doesn't, if in order to, if you're trying to like overcome pornography, no. You don't have to go on a billion podcasts. Like, that's not what I'm trying to say. But it is such a human and soul connection thing, right? And so, so yeah. Anyway, that is, I guess that kind of brings us to now, but I'm curious like what, what questions or points [00:27:00] you wanna talk about.
Crishelle: Oh, I love that. And thank you so much for sharing. I, I, I can just imagine the. The courage that they initially took you. I mean, obviously you shared, but the courage it took you to walk into your bishop's office and share it for the first time, but also just the courage to continually share it. But what I think is so cool about sharing our stories and, and connecting and honestly connecting with people is it takes courage the first time, but then it becomes easier and easier, and then it becomes like more difficult to hide,
Madi: Yeah.
Crishelle: if that makes sense.
Because. Because connection is what we actually are looking for. And I also love the part where you're sharing about waking up and, and starting to become self-aware of what you were really looking for. Instead of just like turning to pornography. You started being like, what time of day was it? Was I like hungry?
Was [00:28:00] I angry? Was I frustrated? Was I bored? And what was I really looking for in that moment? I. Then like soothing that need, finding a better way to help yourself. I think that's so awesome because I find myself having to do that with Instagram or
Madi: Mm-hmm.
Crishelle: TikTok or like fill in the blank thing, right? Where I'm like, I'm stressed out right now and I find myself scrolling for stupid amount of time
Madi: Yeah. Yeah, it's true.
Crishelle: and that's not what I wanna be doing, and that's actually not even helping me feel better.
Right. ,
Madi: so that's actually interesting that like you bring the like Instagram up and you're like, well, I don't wanna compare the two. But a lot of times, like when I would view pornography, it would be after like I had a ton of unstructured time in my day and I'd be either like scrolling through Instagram or like watching YouTube and.
Kind of doing any activity to [00:29:00] avoid whatever emotions I was feeling, if that makes sense. Like I was, a lot of times I was trying to avoid how guilty I felt about like wasting my day or like not being productive that day or whatever. And so I, I'd turn to those things and then it would eventually lead to, okay, well, you know, like you've been super unproductive this whole day, like, Like, might as well just go like, watch pornography or, or whatever.
And it was just always like Satan had his different little tactics that he would use and then, and then it would work. 'cause it, it wouldn't allow me to feel my emotions, if that makes sense.
Crishelle: Oh, totally. And I, I mean, I feel like I so relate to that in my own use of Instagram and in. Just like wanting to numb whatever, whatever stressor or whatever thing that I'm like frustrated about or or not wanting to do laundry happens to usually be the number one thing that I'm not wanting to do.[00:30:00] But I. And that's just 'cause that's the stage of life I'm in. But, but I, I just like find myself like trying to avoid it or trying to avoid really checking in with myself. And I, I think it's so interesting because as you were sharing of, of noticing maybe even the. Thoughts or the the narrative that Satan is telling yourself and that you are telling yourself, oh man, I so relate to that narrative of just being like, well, you haven't done anything today anyway, so you might as well just like keep scrolling this, you'll probably learn something that'll be helpful.
Like,
Madi: Yeah, no, it's true.
Crishelle: then 30 minutes later, like, Nothing. It's just so fascinating and, and that's what I hope as we're talking about the shame of being a woman. I think the shame of being a human, you know, could also be the name of this podcast, because I, the shame often is coming from, Satan attacking our identity and, and if we can come back to [00:31:00] remembering who we are, I, I think it really empowers us to make a choice of what we actually want to do instead. Would you say that that's accurate for you?
Madi: Yes, I would say 100% it is and one of my favorite scriptures in the entire world is Heal him in five 12.
And I just love that it talks about basing your foundation on Christ because that is a sure foundation. Foundation where on if men build, they cannot fall. I think it's just so important because a lot of times, like, I mean, you just ask someone like, oh, like, you know, who are you? Like, what do you do? Or whatever, and they're like, oh, you know, like I'm a, I'm a doctor, or I'm a whatever.
Or, or maybe it's a, it's like an internal thing. Like you tie your identity to Oh, I am a good kid. Like I, or I'm a good student, or I am pretty, or I am popular. And. All of those things, like regardless of how [00:32:00] awesome they are, like they are just temporary and they could be taken from you like at any moment.
~But the one thing that cannot be taken from you is your identity as a child of God. And regardless of where you are at life like that, it's just never gonna change. And so, that is what to base your foundation on, right? Because if that is the only sure thing in the world, yes, absolutely.~
~Base your foundation on that and learn what that means to base your foundation on it. So yeah, I, I would say a hundred percent. It really did help to understand more of my identity.~
In instead of basing your foundation on. Just all of these things that are nearly guaranteed to, to like fail you at some point. Like base your foundation on Christ because that is the only Sure foundation, right? The only Sure foundation that will never fall. That will never lead you wrong and take the time to learn what does that actually mean?
Right. How and how does someone who bases their identity on Christ Act and, especially with pornography, it's. When you base your foundation on being a child of God and understand what that really means, instead of after you, like you slip up or, or you feel tempted or whatever, but especially after you slip up, I.
You can rewrite that narrative that Satan is trying to put in your head that, because I slipped up, because I viewed pornography, [00:33:00] I am just this disgusting human being and I'm not, I'm not worth much. And instead you can flip it to say, I am a child of God who is learning and growing like children do.
Children fall down all the time and it's hilarious, but it's like that is what we are meant to do, right? And so anyway, like I'm a child of God who makes mistakes and I am the. Type of person who allows myself grace and because that is what God wants, because God wants me to progress and get back to him.
And the way that I do that is by forgiving myself and all of that. I gotta say, much easier said than done, but.
Crishelle: I love this so much, Maddie. In fact, the other day I felt prompted and had this idea given to me, but also felt, prompted to pull my two year old aside, who was having just kind of a rough day. I, I felt prompted to pull her aside and just look her in the eye and tell her. I love you. No matter what. No [00:34:00] matter what you do, no matter what you say, there's nothing you can do.
Nothing you can say that will ever change the way I feel about you and that and or change the way I love you, and that love will always be there. And it was. It was really profound because as I said that I realized that what I was saying was true,
Madi: Hmm.
Crishelle: but especially. Because I knew that that's how God felt about me.
And, and that's, it was just, it was really a profound moment. And I'm so forever grateful for that, for that moment with my daughter, but also for that reminder that that's true. No matter what you do, there's nothing that you can do. There's nothing you can say that will stop God from loving you.
When we remember that and when we, when we build our foundation and our identity on that, the fact that we are children of God, [00:35:00] we will not fall and, and we can overcome it all. But when we start allowing Satan's lies or our actions to, to cause us to question that, that's where shame starts winning.
And it gets really hard.
Madi: Amen to that.
Crishelle: Maddie, I am so grateful for you coming on and sharing your story with us and sharing these incredible insights. And is there anything else you wanna share with our listeners?
Madi: Yeah. I guess just as a final message, if you are struggling with pornography, and especially if you are struggling in silence, I just hope you know that you are not at all alone and Satan is going to try every single tactic in his book to make you believe that you are and that you are isolated. But I promise you're not alone.
I would encourage you to reach out to someone who you love and who you trust, and you can, I promise you can reach out to me or kelle, like seriously, it's not [00:36:00] weird. Send us an email or a dmm. We will, like I, if I don't have time, I will make time like. This stuff is just absolutely top priority because I know how much it sucks to be just down in the depths and, and just so down on yourself.
And so yeah, sure, like reach out to us, but make sure you do reach out to God as well. And I promise you, even if it doesn't feel like it, he has his arm outstretched for you and. Change is possible and change is what we came here to do and it's achievable. And you are not, you're not gross and you're not, you're not made incorrectly and there's nothing wrong with you and there's just things that are happening and things.
You can just work through it. You can work through it. It's gonna be okay. So that would probably be my final message.
Crishelle: Oh, amen to that. I, I just, I, oh, especially when you said change is possible, that's what we came here to do. Oh, I [00:37:00] love that so much because I feel like so often, in fact, I have a two year old, we already talked about her. She loves the frozen soundtrack and there's a song in the frozen soundtrack that's like, people don't really change.
It says that in the song, and I hate it.
Madi: Yeah, agreed.
Crishelle: And I'm like, that's not true. People do change. We can change. You can change. Will you maybe struggle with something for a long time or maybe for your whole life? Yes. Yes. And you can change, so Oh, amen to that, Maddie. Thank you so much. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
And listeners know that you're loved, and amen to what Maddie said. Please reach out. I'm, I'm here, Maddie's here. We want to hear your stories. We want you to know that you're not alone. And most importantly, God is here. Thank you. Have a beautiful day.