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Tomorrow can be different from today.
Our lives often leave us feeling hopeless—like nothing will ever change. But perspective is everything. When you know where to look, hope can be found in the spaces and places you least expect.
Join Jason Gore (Lead Pastor of Hope Community Church) for a fresh perspective, practical steps, and weekly encouragement that hope really is possible… even in real life.
When we're working from rest instead of for rest,
we actually get more.
I can attest to this.
I get more done in less time than I did eight years ago.
Yeah. Welcome to the Hope
and Real Life podcast with Jason Gore.
Our team is passionate
and committed to bringing you more hope
in the everyday real areas of your life.
If this conversation and content is valuable for you,
please do us a favor, like, subscribe, and even share.
You never know how valuable it could be
to share a little bit of hope with someone else.
Let's get the conversation started.
Well, welcome to this episode of Hope in Real Life,
where we have an entire team focused on bringing you hope in
the everyday moments of your life.
This week, we are talking about resting for maximum impact,
and we are here with, I got a long list here.
Uh, one man long list, former NFL Player College,
all American wrestler, pastor, author, speaker, uh,
and more than any of that, a good brother
and a great friend to me.
Love him to death. Mr.
Lance Crump, Jr. Lance, welcome to the show.
Glad to be here. What's up guys? How we doing?
So we're talking about resting for maximum impact and,
and you and I were talking, uh, before the show
and, uh, whether we're talking about a society right now
that's overworked or,
or even if it's not overworked, just overstimulated.
'cause I think that is a difference we'd have to admit.
I mean, stuff is coming after us all the time. Mm-Hmm.
And, uh, so we're gonna talk about
resting for maximum impact.
What would make you an expert?
Why, why do folks need to lean in
and listen to what it is that you have to say?
What we have to say about this conversation?
Yeah. Um, I don't know that I would call myself an expert
so much as, uh, I experienced this extreme burnout.
Uh, 2015, I hit a wall.
Um, my elders actually sent me on a mandated vacation.
And during that time away, I really had
to reevaluate all of my rhythms.
I was overweight. I was over 300 pounds
for the first time since I've been in the NFL.
And it was a very different, a
Different 300 pounds Distribution, uh, at that time.
And, uh, and I wasn't sleeping.
Uh, I was in my office at four 30 in the morning getting
home at 7:00 PM and,
and I thought that that's what it took to get to
where we wanted to go.
And then I hit a wall
because we all, I mean, we're, we're finite.
And, uh, I hit a wall and things started to come undone
and I had to reevaluate everything.
And so since then, um, I've just been on a journey
of integration and healing and rhythm
and understanding my limitations and,
and really, uh, learning how to, uh,
work from rest rather than work for rest. Yeah.
Work from rest rather than work for rest. Yeah.
I think that's something that we're gonna come back to Yeah.
Uh, a number of times in this. Let me ask you this.
So, so we've got a listener that
that's tuning in and think, oh, right away.
Okay. Yeah. I connect with that.
Um, how, how do you get past the process of thinking?
Because, because you and I,
we're, we're we're achievers, right.
Former college athletes, we wanna be the best at what we do.
We wanna leave an impact. Like,
my greatest fear is knowing at the end of the day,
I left something out on the field.
Yeah. So, so how do you, how does someone get
through the process
and get to the point where they work through this idea of,
well, man, if I rest, maybe I'm falling behind,
or maybe somebody's gonna think I'm lazy.
Yeah. How do you work through that?
Yeah. I'll, I'll start with the illustration.
Um, everybody's familiar with Chick-fil-A I think, right?
Uh, God's Chicken.
Yeah, that's right. That's Baptized
and the Holy Ice Cream of Sweetness.
Did you on, do you know they wash it
in ice cream before they fry it?
Oh, come on. This is a real thing. No.
Yes. They wash their chicken and ice cream. Yes.
The vanilla, it's the same base
for vanilla ice cream, and that's why it's addictive.
I do not know if they can fully endorse this or not.
But you're serious.
I'm very serious. You can Google it.
Alright. You can Google it.
Well, that explains a lot.
I thought it was just a pickle juice.
No, nobody. Okay. No.
It's got that sweet, sweet. But oh my
Goodness. But here's what's
fascinating, mama.
I got a new recipe. You gotta dip it.
You gotta dip it, you gotta dip it,
then you roll it, then you fry it.
Um, but, um, you know, their business model.
So we have several, I don't even know how this happened.
We've always had several Chick-fil-A employees,
uh, part of our community.
Okay. And, um, when you say community,
You mean Renovation? Renovation Church. Church
Santana. Yep.
Um, and one of the things I've,
and I've gone down the headquarter several times,
I've actually met with Dan, Kathy.
Yeah. Um,
and one of the things that I've always found fascinating is
them drawing a line in the sand on not being open on Sunday.
Right. And initially, the, you know,
the execs were really pushing back hard against this.
We're gonna fall behind. That was the exact word.
We're gonna fall behind. We're not gonna have market share.
You know, the other fast food restaurants are open
and the story goes the lower goes.
That true. Kathy did two things.
They were in a meeting and he was silent for a long time.
And then eventually he banged on the table
and he said, listen, if we get better,
people will demand we get bigger.
That was first principle.
Second principle was, if we stick to our principles,
then success will come.
Yeah. And right now, if you look at national trends,
Chick-fil-A has a larger market share than almost any other
fast food industry,
any other fast food company in the industry.
And they're only open six days a week.
Well, what's the difference? Um, when I,
I would say I don't wanna start a fight. Well,
For one, they bathe their chicken and ice cream. That's
One thing. Well, that's, that's for one thing. That's
for one thing.
I don't wanna start a fight here, but I'm gonna say it.
KFC and Popeye's have a better
chicken sandwich than Chick-fil-A
Oh my goodness. They
do. I'm sorry. I like spice. I like seasoning. You.
We just lost a thousand viewers.
Well, you know what? They'll get saved.
There's room for everybody at the foot of the cross.
But, um, but here's the deal.
I'll go to Chick-fil-A 10 outta 10 times. Right? Yeah.
Because even if the sandwich tastes better,
I don't want it drop kicked through the drive
through window into my car with a bad attitude.
Right. Right. So their culture and their processes
and the way that they do business has allowed them
to take a full day off as a large corporation
and still be incredibly profitable,
even through the pandemic.
Breaking that down. I would say the
same thing for any individual.
That when we do our best work,
when we're working in our gift sets,
when we are working efficiently,
when we're not wasting time on social media,
different podcasts, uh,
when we are stewarding our energy, well yeah.
Then we can get more done in less time.
And when, and I'm gonna say it again,
when we're working from rest instead of for rest,
we actually get more, I can attest to this.
I get more done in less time than I did eight years ago.
Yeah.
So, uh, you talked about the principles.
He said, if we stick to our principles,
so maybe let's translate that to this topic of, of rest.
What, what are some principles
that you found success in when
it comes to this topic of rest?
Yeah. Number one. Uh, a 24 hour Sabbath
where I stop creating.
And that's what a Sabbath is. And it can take any
shape that you want it to.
Uh, but kind of the four buckets I put things in, uh,
is one, don't make anything.
Don't create. Yeah. Right.
Um, two, um, because we are Christians,
or at least I am a Christian, uh,
delight in the Lord in some way, you know, what, what is it
that brings your heart alive before the Lord?
Is it worship? Is it nature? Uh, is it reading?
Is it a long walk? Whatever that is, take some time
to delight in the Lord.
Do something that fills your tank. Right.
What, whatever that is, do something
that actually fills up your energy stores.
Yeah. Um, and then enjoy.
And this is the part that we don't do, uh,
particularly as Westerners.
Enjoy the fruit of your labor.
Reflect on the week
and the good things that God has allowed you to accomplish.
Uh, and and that's one principle that is rooted for me.
Uh, I have 24 hours every single week
that I don't make anything.
I delight in the Lord. I do things that fill my tanks.
Uh, I love film. Um, that's one thing that fills my tank.
I love reading autobiographies about great leaders.
That's another thing that fills my tank.
I like reading Men's Health magazine
because it challenges me to not eat so much Chick-fil-A um,
that new pimento cheese sandwich is a problem.
Um, and, and then lastly, I actually sit back
with my journal and I reflect on what I was able
to accomplish that week.
And you look back
and you realize when, when you, when you do that,
you look back over the week
and you realize, man, um,
I got a lot more done than I even thought I did.
Yeah. Or for some of us, it'll be kind of a gut check
to say, man, I, I had more left in the tank
that I didn't give in my allotted time.
And next week I'm gonna work better.
Not necessarily harder, but better and smarter. Yeah.
So, um, there's this idea of,
um, that, that you've hit on.
Like, man, maybe we can just keep producing,
maybe we can just keep, keep producing.
What if, because what,
'cause I'm thinking you said, you know, you
said you're a Christian.
I, I'm Christian. I believe we're
created in the image of God.
That's right. God showed some things in
the creation of world.
But what if there's, what if we were created in the image
of God, we were created to need rest.
Um, and we don't Yeah. And we don't do it.
What are the symptoms? What are the things that,
what are the tell signs that we are probably gonna see in
our own life if we actually don't live our lives the way
that we were created that way?
Well, the first one is catastrophe.
Um, I mean, that's where it starts. Let me take a step back.
Irritability, cutting corners. Hmm.
Um, cutthroat bus, you know,
I was in the marketplace as you were Mm-Hmm.
Before church. Yeah. Bro,
somebody would slit your throat if they could. Yeah. To,
To what does it take to Get on top?
To get on top? Yeah. All of that is evidence of, um,
not living the way we're designed.
And then you extrapolate that out further.
Um, you start self-medicating with alcohol
or pornography, uh, because that allows you to numb yourself
because your energy stores
and your adrenaline stores are so depleted.
And, and then you drift beyond that into adultery.
You know, um, the, the, um, divorce rate
and adultery rate among high powered executives is three
to four times the national average.
Yeah. Same in the military. Yeah.
And, and so we, we see all of the chaotic evidence of,
of not living according to our design.
And verses looking at the Bible and it said, God rested
and God didn't need to rest.
Right. The, the Bible also says he never
sleeps and he never slumbers.
So why did God rest on the seventh day? Mm.
Well, it was to show us a pattern.
It was to show us a way that if the creator of the universe
got all his work done in six days
and then took a day to reflect on the beauty of it,
then surely those of us
who are made in his image can do the same.
Because that's, we're not holding the universe together.
You know, last thought, um, I'll never forget, uh,
and this is not a political statement,
but I was always fascinated with President Obama
finding time to play basketball
and go to the gym every week.
And whenever I have a, and they're usually younger than me
and they're like, I just don't have time, you know, work
and the kids, I just can't get, I said, Hey,
this man ran the country.
Right. And, and,
and you know, whether you agree with his politics
or not, he ran the country
and he still managed to get a pickup game in every week
and hit the gym twice a week.
If he can do it, then the middle manager at a bank
can probably figure it out.
Yeah. You know, it, it's just managing our priorities
and our expectations and,
and actually living along the lines of our design
that actually gives us the capacity to do that.
I've talked about this before in the podcast,
but I, um, big into holistic health.
Uh, I, for me, the way I I approach life as a family,
we've just, I wanna make sure I'm doing everything I can do
to contribute and as much as I possibly can,
as long as I possibly can.
That's right. And so what are the things that I need to do?
And I don't get 'em right all the time,
but as a part of that, so I see a functional medicine
doctor, one day I'll, I'll have 'em on the show,
but you go in quarterly blood work,
the whole thing, talk about your life.
And what's amazing is what the blood, like,
the blood just doesn't lie.
That's right. Like your blood shows what's going on.
And so he can actually look at different markers
and we talk through like, what are the four key,
what are the primary contributors
to what's going on inside of your body?
Obviously diet's one,
we're not talking about that on this episode.
Exercise one of those. But sleep Mm-Hmm.
Is, I mean, he, he digs in on this sleep and,
and you hear, if you really look around, look
around on the internet, it's like a super serum.
Oh yeah. You know, I mean, captain America has Oh yeah.
This super, it's like a super serum that, that most people
neglect and completely overlook.
And I'll tell you, I mean, my conversation with him,
'cause we go through it and I'm honest with him,
and don't do any good to pay a guy money
and then not be honest with what you're doing.
But there's a lot of that happening out there too.
There is a lot of that happening.
But I told you guys we're talking pre-production,
and everybody in the studio
we're talking about this before the show.
And I said, I'm glad we've got somebody on the show
that has gone through this and
is doing this relatively well.
This is not something I do well. Mm-Hmm.
Because I know the right answer. I handle the diet side.
Well, my, the exercise that I love it, it's therapeutic
for me, but man, the actual sleep, I just stay up too late
for what time did I get up in the morning?
And it tells on me. But I like, like at
what point do I realize every single marker
that you would look at your body
and want to see from what it does to your blood,
what it does to you, your health, what it does
to your cognition, what it does to your ability
to be present and make good decisions in meetings
and treat your wife well and
treat the people that you work with.
Well, why do we not do it?
Yeah. I mean, I, I, I think there are a host
of answers to that.
And, and the primary one is the invention of the light bulb.
Yeah. Um, there was a great Ted talk on YouTube,
I can't remember the name, but you can probably find it if
you look up sleep.
And he talks about how at the point of the invention
of the light bulb, and this is his
exact words, and I love it.
He says, human beings began to invade the night
and they weren't meant to.
Uh, our circadian rhythm is meant to decelerate into sleep
as darkness comes
and accelerate into awakenness, uh, as light comes.
But we have created an artificial capacity for light
that doesn't require us to go to sleep anymore.
Right. You know, when I was a seminary student,
I remember reading about Martin Luther and, uh,
and he, you know, he had this crazy quote, right?
He's like, I, you know, I have so much work to do today.
I've gotta get up and pray for three hours instead of four.
You know, and Yeah.
And, uh, Spurgeon, you know, Spurgeon,
were talking about being up at 3 30, 4 30 in the morning.
I'm like, how in the world are these guys doing this?
And it wasn't until a couple of years ago,
it clicked when they were going to bed, bed at six at night.
At six o'clock at night. That's exactly right.
Like, they had no reason to be up there.
There, there was no show to catch up on.
There were no reels to watch that, you know, there,
there was nothing to entertain them.
There was no light, uh, available
to them except a small candle to try and read.
Uh, and, and so for that reason,
when it got dark, they went to bed.
Uh, and we violate that with veracity in this culture
and then wonder why we're sick, why we're overweight,
why we're unhealthy, why we're always tired,
why we're always irritable.
Well, it's because we're not leveraging this natural gift
of sleep, uh, to replenish and restore our bodies.
And that is a big part
of this rest conversation is actually, I mean,
it's become a funny thing at our church,
by the way, renovation.
It's becoming run a running joke that they said,
it seems like every other sermon I tell them to go to bed.
Like, go to bed. Half your problems would be solved
if you would just go to bed at night.
You know, because, and I think you said this
before we started recording it, it's not
that people are overworked or over busy.
I hear a lot of that. Right.
I'm so overworked, I've got so much going on.
So, no, you're overstimulated. Right.
And, and your brain is always on
because the first thing you do when you wake up is open your
phone to see what's happening on Instagram or TikTok
or Twitter or what, you know, x now, whatever
You're, so I think it's, what I'm hearing though here is
that we've found yet another reason why social
media is clearly from the devil. That's what
We're saying. Listen, man,
I've got a lot of thoughts on social media,
um, that it's
A great tool. Can
it can be a great tool.
I would agree to disagree.
Um, I I think it can be, but,
but, uh, again, so can so many things, right?
I mean that, that we have invented,
that we have turned into weapons or means of control
or dominating or, you know, it, it really,
it really has put us in a, in a detrimental place
as a society in, in a lot of ways, uh,
mental health and everything.
But that's what we do. We wake up, we jump on our phone.
Yeah. We scroll, we get dressed. Yeah.
We're watching reels while we're brushing our teeth,
you know, and then we get in the car
and we're texting while we're driving, and we get to work
and we answer two emails and then we get back online.
And our brains are never actually not receiving information.
In fact, we receive more information today in 30 minutes
than our grandparents did in 30 days.
And, and so we're, we're not meant to be omniscient.
We're not meant to know everything.
Um, and, and that's a part
of the weight we feel even when we're on vacation. Yeah.
I mean, it's kind of this, the, the, the,
the picture I'm getting in my head
and is this idea of a computer running Mm-Hmm.
An operating system can only handle so many tabs.
It can only handle so many programs.
It cannot be, and so you can it can do it. Yep.
But it's productivity is gonna decrease.
And at some point the thing's gotta reboot.
Yep. And it's gonna crash. Yeah.
And if you're a Mac person, which you should be,
then you'll get the spinning wheel of death.
Yeah, that's right. And that is your sign
that you have overtaxed your hard drive.
You have overtaxed the capacity of this computer.
It took you as far as it can go. And that happens to us.
There's a, a great book called The Body Keeps the Score.
Yeah, great. And, um, it, it delves into all
of the physiological responses that we have from lack
of mental, emotional, and physical wellness.
Uh, and your body does start to show it and,
and it shows up everywhere.
Uh, and what do we do?
Well, we take coffee to wake up
and we take NyQuil to go to sleep, you know, because,
Or wine or liquor or, That's exactly right.
Um, because our bodies can't function the way
that God designed them to function.
Yeah.
Well, let's do this. If you, if you had to give, um, one
or two action steps, okay.
Okay. We're all in need to find a way
to get more rest in our lives.
And then I heard you earlier, 24 hour Sabbath,
one day a week, find an opportunity to disconnect.
What else would you stack on that for our listeners?
Two simple steps. What would they be?
Uh, get a full focus planner
and it will help you to limit, um, the amount
of things you try to accomplish in the day.
Here's the reality. The most high
Capacity leads. Oh, Michael Hyatt.
We do expect a, uh, kickback here.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. On this promotion
for your full focus planner.
Yeah. Slide is a little something, bro.
Um, but I, I love it
because every day
it makes you categorize the three things you must get done.
Yeah. And then everything else just kind
of falls into a task list.
And so for me, it's a bit of a mental game.
I play with myself, right? Yeah.
Because I get to the end of the day and, you know,
and I'm like, man, I really wanted to get
bang, bang, bang done.
And I look at my full focus
and I'm like, well, I got my top three done today.
You know, what are the three things I need to,
the way I frame it, and it'll be different for some,
for everyone, but the way I frame it every day is,
what are the three things I have to do
to move our mission forward?
And then everything else is subservient to that.
Uh, and you find that so much of what we busy ourselves
with, we don't actually have to do.
Right. We just do it because it's become rhythmic
and routine for us.
So, so 24 hours, uh, Sabbath, 24 hours, four buckets. Okay.
Four buckets.
Uh, reflect on the good work that God has done
through you during the week.
Stop creating. Don't make anything.
And listen, I take this seriously.
Um, I don't cook on the Sabbath, so either we have
to plan ahead of time
and I'll make a big old pot of gumbo
that we can eat on for a couple days.
Oh yeah. And, uh, or,
or we'll order out, you know, um,
so don't create don't make, don't do anything.
Uh, find one activity
that helps you delight in the Lord, whatever that is.
Um, whether it's walking like I go to,
don't make fun of me for this.
You're gonna make fun of me for this.
I, I might make fun of you,
but you are 70 pounds heavier than me. I,
I, I like to walk through a botanical garden.
It, it brings, it brings me peace.
You see, that's why I don't tell you my
Secrets. I'm thankful that
that brings you peace.
I just want a picture. I want to, now,
I do want a social media reel
of you walking through a botanical garden. That's
Why I don't tell you my secrets.
And then the last thing is to, um,
you said reflect to do something that fills your tank.
That's right. Do something that fills your T tank.
You know, I love a great movie. I I love a great movie.
I love, I love storytelling. Yeah.
You know, that's something
that fills my t date nights with my wife.
We go ax throwing. You know that? Yeah.
See, that's, that seems more like
you than walking through a
Botanical. Well, you know what,
I'm sorry. Okay.
I, I am a sensitive man
and there is something about daffodils
that calms my soul. Okay. It just is
What it's, that might be another episode in the future.
We might have to talk about that,
whether or not that's even healthy.
But we'll take it for now.
I trust it is, it's working for you.
It's good for me. Um, listen, let, hey,
let's wrap this thing up, uh, on rest.
So all the resources you mentioned
the book, the Body Cube Score.
Mm-Hmm. Uh, you mentioned the Full Focus planner.
We'll put links to those, uh,
down in the show notes. Lemme give
You a couple more. Yes, please.
Uh, the Emotionally Healthy Leader Great
by Pete Ra Yep.
Is extraordinary, extraordinary.
Love his point about how we get so focused on doing,
we lose track of being.
That's right. Yeah. That's right.
And we forget who we are. We, we get lost in the sauce.
Um, if you just go to those few resources
and do that one Sabbath Mm-Hmm.
Your life will change. Okay. Forever.
That's great. That's great. Okay.
So here's the thing, Leon, I normally try
to throw out one question, uh, for all of our guests, just
for our listeners, just to kind
of see a little bit more into your life.
Uh, so here, here you go.
Well, what are you, Leon Scrump Jr.
What are you most hopeful for in your life right now?
Um, the future of my son.
That is what I'm most hopeful for. Yeah.
He is, he is the best part of, uh,
of both me and my wife.
That's awesome. Um, this kid real quick, uh,
Seven years Old. Seven years
old, nobody taught him
or told him to do this
every single night he goes into his little sister's room.
Uh, 'cause I have two sets of kids, if you don't know
that my oldest two are 16 and 14.
My youngest two are eight. Yeah. And, uh, six, same woman.
And, um, he goes into her room every night
and he reads her the Bible and he prays for her.
Wow. Every night. Um, that's beautiful.
And no one ever told him to do that.
So, you know, so that's one.
And then he's a, he's a very competitive athlete. Yeah.
Uh, and, and he's very passionate about what he loves.
And I'm just really enjoying watching him blossom.
Um, and he gives me hope for the future. Yeah.
That, uh, that this generation will actually,
um, fulfill its purpose. Yeah.
That's awesome. Well, Leon, thank you so much
for spending time here with us today.
Uh, great time together as always.
Uh, when you're here in town, uh, just so you all know,
thank you for tuning in.
As our listeners, we are gonna be having Leon's back, uh,
on a future episode.
Probably not talking about botanical gardens,
but maybe No, we're gonna be talking about
resilience in a chaotic world.
Lance has written a book, been a part of a team
that wrote a book, uh, the Resilience
Factor, phenomenal Resource.
Look forward to talking, uh, through that with you.
And again, thank you guys for tuning into this episode
of Hope in Real Life.
See you soon. Thanks for tuning into this episode
of The Hope in Real Life podcast.
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