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My name is Jeff, and I'd like to welcome you on a journey of reflection and insight into the tolls and triumphs of a career in automotive repair.
After more than 20 years of skinned knuckles and tool debt, I want to share my perspective and hear other people's thoughts about our industry.
So pour yourself a strong coffee or grab a cold Canadian beer and get ready for some great conversation.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:00:07]:
Advisors have a talent too. They have their own set of gifts and talents, but our technicians are our racehorses, and I grew up around horses. So if you expect a horse to race, they need to be fed, watered, rested, and exercised. And those are my team. Those are my boys. As much as I might want to go out and strangle them sometimes, They're still my boys and I'm going to take care of them.
Jeff Compton [00:00:35]:
Good evening, ladies and gentlemen. Welcome back to another exciting episode of the Jada Mechanic Podcast. It's a nice kind of Saturday night here and, you know, you're probably all out doing fun stuff and we're doing fun stuff too. So, but, you know, it's a little different than your fun stuff. I'm sitting here with a new friend of mine. Um, somebody that kind of popped onto the scene a couple weeks ago, uh, with her own podcast, and she hit the ground really running and is doing phenomenal things and having great conversations. Um, so I want to introduce everybody to Miss Jean Ann St. Grace.
Jeff Compton [00:01:09]:
JeanAnn, how are you tonight?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:01:11]:
I'm good, Jeff. Thank you so much. I'm so excited to be here and get to hang out with you. I'm— I, I've been listening to your show, and I'll admit, little fangirl, so I just feel like I've arrived, like I get to be on The Jaded Mechanic. I'm I'm super excited.
Jeff Compton [00:01:26]:
Don't fangirl over this. This is like— I mean, I have more fanboys than I do fangirls in the sense that like I have a lot of grouchy old, you know, men that reach out to me and they're like, dude, you know, I can still relate, right? So that's cool that you— thank you. I'm, I'm happy. Um, tell me, you're with— your company is called what?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:01:46]:
Auto Shop— oh, I see, I screwed it up. Auto Fix Auto Shop Coaching.
Jeff Compton [00:01:51]:
Yeah, and so it's essentially, people, you know how we talk all the time about, you know, a lot more shops need a coach and certainly, you know, need to, what's the word I'm trying to think, how do I say it without being really offensive? Really need some guidance, I think, sometimes in how we're navigating this industry going forward, 'cause it isn't certainly, you know, it's not your daddy's industry. Industry anymore. It's very different. So, and JeanAnn, you've kind of, you kind of came up in it, not accidental, but like it wasn't what you initially started out in, was it?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:02:27]:
No, I do kind of jokingly say I was an accidental shop owner. I was in college and I met a technician and fell in love with him and found out what Snap-on toolboxes were all about and flat rate and how not to run a shop. And it was his dream. He wanted to have his own shop eventually. And I was like, hey, why not? I know business, you know what you do, so let's do it together.
Jeff Compton [00:02:56]:
Yeah, because you, you'd grown up— what was the family business?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:02:59]:
My dad owned a short-haul trucking company in California.
Jeff Compton [00:03:03]:
Yeah, so you've kind of been around then. I mean, because I have a background in trucking in the sense that I've worked in truck shops, so I mean, you kind of understand how how pivotal like maintenance and fleet and all that kind of stuff, fleet maintenance, fleet repair, fleet costs is all pivotal to that business, right? That's where all your money's made and lost is on the transportation side of, or at least the repair side, the cost. Payroll is one for drivers, but I mean, you kind of were— So were you in around in like, would you call that the heyday of trucking?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:03:37]:
I would consider it the heyday. So, so like post Smokey and the Bandit, you know, when truckers were cool and, you know, I would— when I was a kid, I was dying. I was always trying to talk my dad into putting CBs in the trucks. Like, I thought that would be so cool. I just grew up around trucks, in and out of truck shops, in and out of parts stores because my dad did a lot of his own work.
Jeff Compton [00:04:04]:
Right. Yeah.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:04:06]:
And so, you know, I'll tell you my— the worst story ever. I was, I don't know, 2 or 3 years old and we had a shop at the house. So he was working on my favorite truck that had like a baby blue interior and it was one of those old heavy-duty Chevy, like, box vans. Okay. So for whatever reason, he sat me in the cab and went out to close the door. And I don't honestly know how I did it, but I somehow released the parking brake just about the time he was dead center. He came running in the— running around the corner, threw the parking brake on, picked me up. And I don't remember this part, but apparently he carried me into the house like, like this, like holding me at arm's length, and handed me to my mom and bailed.
Jeff Compton [00:04:58]:
Yeah, put her in the high chair, she's causing trouble. Yeah, yeah.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:05:03]:
He never left me in the cab alone again.
Jeff Compton [00:05:08]:
That's cute. I loved it when I first got in, because that was my first foray into the industry, was on heavy trucks, highway truck. And I loved it. I didn't get a chance to drive a whole lot, but I mean, I just, I can remember it seemed like every truck driver back then, and I would've been 21, 22, they were all already then in their late 40s.. And they were like what we would call the, you know, the old cowboys of the day, right? Like, they, they all wore cowboy boots. They all like had immaculate clean trucks. You know, I can remember they all would take their boots off and then put on like their little slippers and then drive the truck like it was, it was something cool. Now we had fleets that were like, we had a steel mill fleet and like they were hammered.
Jeff Compton [00:05:56]:
So I mean, and again, not an owner-operator, just a driver. So they tend to beat them stuff up. But I loved seeing the pride in, in that people took in, in the and the rigs they owned, right? Old Kenworths, Peterbilts, and stuff like that. It was just really cool. I still love seeing it. I just have no love for working on them anymore. It's a young man's game, eh? Like, it's very hard on the body, so.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:06:19]:
It's super heavy work. It's, you know, and again, just like our industry, if it was just mechanical, it would be one thing. But with all the electronics, all the control systems, the emission systems, You know, it's just like our industry, only I think worse because if we, in a heavy-duty shop, everybody's livelihood relies on that getting back out on the road. And it's bad enough with one of our customers where it's like they might be late for a game or they might need an Uber to work. These guys, if they're not rolling down the road, they're not getting paid. And so, there's that extra layer of pressure. So, yeah. I mean, I love, I love heavy truck.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:07:04]:
I, I still get a thrill, you know, seeing old Peterbilts run down the road. I, you know, all the chrome and the smokestacks and the lights and everything. But yeah, that's a tough side of the industry for sure.
Jeff Compton [00:07:15]:
So you met your, you met your fiancé and you guys kind of went down a— like, he wanted to be— he was working for somebody else, right? Yeah. I mean, it was in a different own business. What was that like for him? What kind of shop did he work in? How did that kind of make him feel?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:07:34]:
So he, he started at this shop when he was 16, and he— it was like a work— a work— I want to say work release, but that's for prisoners. It was the high school work experience. Yeah, yeah. And he started out at a, at a county shop. They put him first in a county shop with a bunch of guys working on the county equipment. Okay. And bless his heart, he was a hustler. And they're like, slow down, kid, you're making us look bad.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:08:05]:
Yeah. So, so they placed him into— it was a 3-bay Chevron in California. It was on a really busy corner, right around the corner from the university, right on Highway 1, which is one of the main highways, the scenic highway through California., and, um, it was a busy corner and they, they kicked it. They were, they were killing it.
Jeff Compton [00:08:30]:
A lot of experience made a lot good for him.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:08:33]:
But, you know, he was a flat rate tech at that time, and when I met him, he'd been in the industry for 10 years. Okay. Um, that was 1993, and he was making $14 an hour flat rate, and he had, um, I'm going to ruin the numbers, but it's the K whatever the number is, 1000 Snap-on toolbox with a side box. It was full of tools. You know, he had a Red Brick, you know, he was investing in his tooling. You know, he had a solid kit that I was not allowed to touch for a while. I knew when he'd let me clean his tools and put them in the toolbox I was in. But, you know, he was and they were, they were teamed up with an AC Delco supplier.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:09:20]:
So they got a lot of GM training. And he was a sponge. Um, he was, he was one of those guys that was just gifted at it.
Jeff Compton [00:09:31]:
Yeah. Um, they walk among us and I still, I still see them and, and they're amazing to me still, right? Like, it's, it's, and I've worked with a lot of them and, and it's cool because I'm not that, you know what I mean? Like, I can get stuff apart and put it back together, but like, my, my brain is always more like— I keep saying it's like I could read a roadmap, or, or, you know, I wasn't the puzzle guy. I was like the— could read 10 pages and recite it back to you kind of guy, right? So I could remember numbers and stuff. But I would see those natural guys that were just like— they were puzzle guys, and I was so envious of that. So envious. Because it was back in the day when that was the big part of it. It just could kill it. They were so— you know, it was really cool to see.
Jeff Compton [00:10:12]:
But yeah, if he's letting you clean his tools, you're, you're wifey material at that point, pretty much, right? Yeah. And the red brick, that was such a— like, I have one Oh, I think I bought mine in 2006 though. So if he had one back then, he was hitting the ground, like I said, running. It was early in its infancy back then, you know, it was kind of, you know, it wouldn't even have been a 10-year-old tool at that point. So I mean, that was pretty good.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:10:37]:
Yeah, yeah, we just barely broken— that was still OBD1, right? So OBD1 was only 4 or 5 years old at that point.
Jeff Compton [00:10:45]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah, good for him. So you guys kind of He's working in that shop and then you, you get married, I assume, and then you decide.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:10:55]:
Yeah. So we had, we had the— he started off in the Chevron when I met him and then he moved to a 2-bay Unocal that was about 20 miles. And he worked for somebody who was kind of like both of our, like, adopted dads. Like, he was a mentor. Who really valued my husband for what he was. He went from that— he came home one day and he's like, so his name's Robert. Robert offered me a job and they offered me— he was at 14. They offered him $26 an hour.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:11:37]:
And I was like, and what did you say? Please tell me you said yes. So really valued him, really took him under his wing. He'd had good mentors. His— the shop manager was really good to him too. So he'd had good mentors all along. The problem at the Chevron was the pay and the, you know, but that's where he really got— he was always writing his own service. So he knew how to write service. He knew, you know, markup then was 2.5 on everything.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:12:14]:
Um, so that was the model he was living under. Um, they offered him— so he got, um, he was $26 an hour flat rate, and then he got like a 20% commission on everything he sold. Good money. Yeah, really good, like awesome. So, um, we couldn't— we couldn't get married until we bought a house. So we were together for 5 years, 4 years, bought a house, and then got married. Nice. So that was his thing.
Jeff Compton [00:12:43]:
And he always loved the industry from what I've heard you talk about.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:12:49]:
He was just gifted at it. He was gifted. He was a savant, however you want to put it. It was just his gift. To watch him, he was smooth. You know, the old slow is smooth and smooth is fast? Yeah, he was that guy, and he made it look effortless. And you just kind of sit there. I'd sit there for hours when I was in college.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:13:14]:
I'd like bring one of my school books, and I'd sit there at night while he worked late, and I'd watch, watch him and read my book. Um, but, you know, tools always laid out, went back in the toolbox. The, you know, he, he was that model of efficiency. Yeah. And I don't know what if he was trained into that. I kind of think it was training and giftedness. Um, but yeah, and he was one of those guys, um, and he never abused his power. He could sell ice to Eskimos, right? You know, and so, and it didn't hurt that he was, you know, around the corner from the university, and 50% of the students are young girls.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:13:53]:
Yeah. And so we affectionately, or not affectionately, call them Polly Dollies. Um, You know, the Polly Dollies would walk in there and flirt with him and try to get their cars worked on, and it worked, right? And there's no bad advertising. Yeah. So, I think when I took him off the market, so to speak, there was like a collective like, oh man. But yeah, he was just that guy. He was trustworthy and he didn't have to tell you you could trust him. You just knew you could trust him.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:14:29]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:14:31]:
And see, being able to sell his own service and write his own service, that was something that, like, way back when I was coming up, you just didn't do it, you know what I mean? Like, I didn't really— and again, like, I didn't start to write my own service until I got to pretty much the second dealer job that I ever had. And then even then, it wasn't like we didn't write it right through. We just literally sent the parts request to the parts department, and we jotted down a piece of paper what jobs it needed and the hours that were expected to be paid on each job, and that was it. That wasn't completely writing service, but I mean, we Everybody hears that and they go, oh, so you just made up numbers. No, we all knew what the labor times were supposed to be and we didn't deviate from that too much. What it helped with was like if the car had been modified, say there was a big aftermarket bumper on the front of the Ram and it had to come off, we got paid for the extra time to remove the bumper. If you're chasing diagnostic time, like we were billing out 2 hours to probably start with the open-ended that, yeah, it could go longer than that. Most of the time, no, it did not.
Jeff Compton [00:15:34]:
You know, um, we were pretty good back then, and it was a lot simpler. But yes, you know, being able to write service is something that a lot of technicians going forward— and now you see it with everybody doing the DBI and the whole thing, like, there's so many now, eh, Jeanette? Yeah, Jean Ann, that are doing their own. And it's like, I think it's really a positive thing because the more you have like contact with the customer— and I know it's uncomfortable for a lot of us— the more you have one-on-one, face-to-face, whatever, you know, video to their video, back and forth, the more comfortable they are with the whole transaction. That's just the reality of it, right? You've, you've seen it. I'm sure he knows. How many times does a customer come in and want to talk to the mechanic, doesn't want to talk to the service advisor, right? It still happens. Yeah. And, you know, I was always I would talk to a lot of the customers if they didn't come at me with attitude, you know.
Jeff Compton [00:16:28]:
And I think that's just where a lot of us, when you hear the, I don't like when technicians talk to customers, or, well, if the customer's coming in irate and, and, you know, judgmental, no, they shouldn't be talking to the technician. Because I know myself, you're immediately— how you meet with me is how you're going to get it right back, probably worse, right? Um, and I— so I think it's like, if I always use that service advisor as the buffer between what I mean, like if they were a difficult customer, I could still talk to them, but it was like, we're not going to have a 10-minute conversation here. You know, I'm going to come and give it to you, bridge notes, and that's it. And I'll go back to my thing. What— how did he handle difficult customers or did he have any?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:17:13]:
There were the— there were the the, you know, there's always going to be somebody. And I was actually thinking about this earlier today. You know, a lot of what— something that's really kind of upsetting to me or kind of always hit me wrong about our industry is most people are coming to us on the defense, right? They've either had a bad experience, heard about a bad experience. They don't really understand their car. So you could tell them it needed muffler bearings and they'd be like, oh yeah, then change them. Yeah, you know, and that's what they're afraid of. So they're coming in with a mixture of they're in trouble. They feel like you've got them over a barrel and they don't understand the situation completely.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:17:57]:
Yeah. So my goal, because I work the counter, well, from inception, I was the first person they saw. And so I was, you know, you know, mostly, you know, trying to get them over that hump. I understand where you're coming from. Let's just get— this is where we're going to start. We're not going to do anything without talking to to you first. And we were in California, so we had the Bureau of Automotive Repair, like, looming over us. So, you know, we had to cross all those T's and dot all those I's.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:18:29]:
But I, at the time— I've grown a little bit better— I had like a hair-trigger temper, and I took it really personally if they didn't trust us. Yeah. And, and I would, I would tell them, you know, if you don't trust me, then we don't— we can't even start. You've got to at least give me the benefit of the doubt. He had the gift of keeping his calm. I call it Irish diplomacy, the ability to tell somebody to go to hell and make them look forward to the trip. He was that guy. It was like the Jedi mind trick of, "I'm not the technician you're looking for." And I would literally sit there and watch him and be like, "How did you do that?" Because I would've been crying at that point, right? And he— it just didn't— it just didn't bother him.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:19:17]:
He's just like, you're not my people, go away. Yeah. And, and in a very polite— like, like, he, he literally told a guy very politely to fuck off, and the guy walked out of there like whistling.
Jeff Compton [00:19:27]:
And I'm like, part of it is you convince them that you're not all that qualified and they're really in front of the wrong person. That's what has worked for me is, yeah, oh, these cars, man, like, they drive me crazy. Like, they kick my tail. And like, you know, I stress out. And, you know, my— the one line I used to say is parole officer warned me I'd work on one of these one day, and that was normally— it would take care of it, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:19:50]:
But I—
Jeff Compton [00:19:50]:
right, it was a lot of just convincing the customer that it's like, I'm not your person. And that sounds simple, but it's not, because like, if they're— if they have— if you have a reputation out there and somebody said, oh yeah, take it over there because they're their people, and then you get there and the vibe feels off, you now have to convince them that they were wrong about what they heard about you. But still keep it in a way that they don't go and completely slander your whole reputation all over, right? You kind of have to talk them into saying— I— and you've seen it where people post and it's like, well, I gave them that I don't want to work on a price, and then they went and they, they approved it. And they're like, yeah, like, why give them the I don't want to work on a price? Just give them the— there is no price. I don't want to work on it. Yeah, just— so what, um, so you guys kind of started your own shop And, uh, how did that go? Like, because I know from, from what your, your story that you've shared with me, I know kind of things like you got off and the typical, you know, shop owner thing, and you don't really, you know, the, the business is doing the business stuff, but it's not doing what, you know, you thought it should do based on your background in, in accounting and whatnot, right? Bookkeeping and all that stuff.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:21:11]:
Well, I didn't have a really good metric. And, and what I realized— so I went to school for agricultural business. So it was, you know, when we did accounting, it was a farm problem. And for whatever reason, it was never about making profit. It was always about breakeven. Should you plant this field? Should you buy these cows? And what's it going to take to break even? And now looking back on that, I'm like, why were they training us to break even? So when we opened the shop, the things that I knew from his experience, because I'd never worked in a shop, I'd done books for shops, but I didn't— at that point I was just doing numbers. I wasn't looking at margins or anything like that. And so he's like, well, we just mark everything up, you know, 2.5.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:22:02]:
And sometimes we've got to go down if it's an engine or something like that. And sometimes we got to go up and it's just kind of a feel. There was no matrix. It was like, like what's in his head and what can we do. Yeah. And, um, he had a little cheat sheet with the, the margin— no, the markup and the multiplier. That was what he worked off of. And, um, so I really didn't know.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:22:25]:
So I took all of our monthly bills, I took all of our— you know, we, we, the— we had the major entrepreneurial seizure of building a shop So we built a shop from the ground up. So we obviously— us and the bank. And so, you know, what are our payments? What's the rent? What's the this? What's that? What are our fixed costs? What are our techs costing us? Then we've got to make this much to have a bottom line. Yeah. Of hopefully a little profit. But I didn't know how much was reasonable or expected. Just, hey, we're doing better than break even.
Jeff Compton [00:23:01]:
We win.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:23:02]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know, so that was how we did business for about 10 years. And most, most all the time we got to cash our paychecks and, you know, we— the payments got paid, the vendors got paid. There was sometimes like, oh gee, I'm going to have to put this one on the credit card and pay it next month if we had some lag or slow time. And it wasn't until a coaching company approached us, you know, they walk in, hey, we're having a boot camp, that kind of thing. And I thought, They're going to feed us lunch and talk to us for 4 hours. Okay, what the heck? And I tell this story, the guy came back after the boot camp and they want your financials, right? So, they had a profit and loss and a balance sheet and they're looking at that stuff. And I will never forget, he said, "You're in a very dangerous position." And I was like, "What do you mean? I don't feel like I'm in danger.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:23:58]:
What are you talking about?" And he's like, you're making just enough money to keep going. Yeah, but you're not making enough money for your business to be of any value for you to, like, prosper, for you to bring on more people. Like, you're just not making enough money. Nothing there for growth. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Nothing, nothing on the bottom line for tooling or, you know, whatever. And so we— I literally signed up because I'm like, okay, these people have some secret sauce that I don't know. And that's when, you know, when you know better, you do better.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:24:37]:
And so then we really did have a formula. And so, you know, that was the last 5 years, well, 4 years of the business. And in that 4 years, we went from good to really good. You know, we were working towards great. I think we were really good at taking care of our customers. We were really good at taking care of our team. Their compensation packages were really good. We were really good at fixing cars.
Jeff Compton [00:25:07]:
Yeah.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:25:08]:
And we were— I was just really bad at releasing control and finding an advisor. That was my stumbling block.
Jeff Compton [00:25:14]:
That's the tough thing, though. I talked to so many because, you know, you've probably heard me in a couple of episodes and I know people that listen to me, like, I get really hard sometimes on the husband and wife teams that run a shop. Right. And I I have to apologize because it's not, it's not that I mean any disrespect, and it's not that I'm saying that it can't work, because listen, I have some great friends in the industry and they're, they're power couples, they're incredible. But I find it like so many come in and it's, it's a similar situation to like what you just described. You have a superstar mechanic and then, you know, the wife partner comes in and might not even have the, the business understanding you do. And then all of a sudden, it's like we get into this emotional thing where it's like we're too worried about— I say we're marketing off the back of our own wallet, right? Like, we can't charge them for that this time, I'll get them next time and all that kind of stuff. And so when I'm constantly pointing this out, people, please understand I'm not trying to be disrespectful.
Jeff Compton [00:26:16]:
It's just I see it and I see it because I see the need where you have to somebody came to you, you know, all those years ago, you take this course and somebody has the— not the audacity, but the foresight to say, hey, you guys are really close to the bottom here. And you are— you're just going along thinking, we're guys, we're doing good, you know, we're— because a lot of shops, right, they don't even manage to pay themselves some months, right? So you guys are probably doing a little bit above the average from what a lot of people— but still nowhere where we need to be. So Thank them for coming along and sitting you down and having a tough conversation with you, right? And then thank you for being receptive to it. That's the other half of this secret sauce is we know lots of shops that take coaching and it's not a fix for them because they're not listening.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:27:11]:
Yeah. So yeah. And a lot of times they think it's a magic wand and it's not. It's tough work. Yeah. And it's tough. You know, I always use spark plugs because, you know, in 1990, well, in 2000 when we started the shop and I worked at NAPA. So my first real automotive job was doing a delivery driver for NAPA, right? So I remember when you could buy, you know, as a shop, you know, you were, you were buying a copper core ACDelco spark plug for $99 and selling it for $299 and you were happy, right? Like you were thrilled.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:27:44]:
You know, then we get platinum spark plugs and they're $5, $6, $7, $8 apiece. Then we go to iridium and then we got to sell them to the customer for like $22. Yeah. And, and everybody's like clutching their pearls going, how are we going to do this? Yeah. And my advocacy always came from we didn't build it, break it, or buy it. Mm-hmm. And I've got to feed my team. My, my techs' checks have to cash.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:28:16]:
They're, they're, they're my responsibility. Yeah. And if we don't have the profit margin to pay my techs, then we're not going to be there tomorrow to take care of your car. Yeah. So there I, once I, I'm kind of a bulldog in that is like once I get something set in my head, there's very few exceptions. And so there were a few times, you know, you get somebody down on their luck, but that's my choice, right? That was my choice to say, hey, I see you're in a bad spot. I'm going to take a little bit off of this, but I'm not going to take anything away from my techs. That's on me as a business owner.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:28:53]:
Yeah. You know, so I could do good works over here without hurting over here. Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:29:00]:
And that's where the parts margin is so important. You know, like we still see so many shops that don't even have a parts margin, don't even have a markup. And I know that there's so many good people out there that want to help that down-on-the-lock customer, but what do they do? They shave that labor off. And just the thought of shaving labor comes at me from so many different angles, it just jerks me. Because either if you're flat rate, you're taking money, cash, straight up cash, just gone. If you're not flat rate, you're on some kind of incentivized, like a hybrid, you're still taking cash. And even if you're just paid hourly, at the end of the year, we don't clock that and go, all these hours that we donated, we don't track it. There's not, you know, we don't have a column for it.
Jeff Compton [00:29:45]:
No matter what everybody says you used to do, that you do, you don't. So you look at it and go, crap, they were really unproductive last month or last week or last day or yesterday or whatever, all because we forget we took that labor and we gave it away. That's my whole thing with shaving, not just facial shaving but shaving, you know, period, is because it's It's manipulation of the truth in a nutshell for me is what it is. And it's the real time that the job should have been and we did this, you know. I, it always sat wrong with me.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:30:16]:
So yeah, and shops are, shops are doing that the wrong way. Yeah, because if, if as, if as an owner I decide, you know, maybe instead of giving to a charitable organization, I'm gonna give, I'm gonna do this person a good turn Yeah, the techs always got paid full pop. They always got paid. And I know I'm an accounting nerd. I will admit that till my dying day. I had 3 discount lines. I had just, you know, straight up marketing discounts if we put out a coupon. Yeah, I had warranty discounts if we got a bad part or we had to eat some labor.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:30:57]:
And I had Goodwill discounts. Yeah. And I tracked all 3 of those because the Goodwill discounts came out of my pocket. They never came out of my team's pocket. Yeah. And, and that's kind of one of the beautiful things, I think, where we were ahead of the game is since, since I had seen my husband be abused by the flat rate system, I never— we never hurt our techs. Like, I might have chewed some behinds a few times, and I'm embarrassed to say that I did. But, but that was, that was like the worst of it.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:31:33]:
Their, their pay was sacrosanct. I didn't— and I would grind my teeth when, you know, they were doing overtime or whatever, but I would always pay them because they were out there trying to get a job done. Yeah. So they were— they're our talent. They're, you know, and our advisors are talented. I always kind of leave out advisors, but advisors have a talent too. They have their own set of gifts and talents. But our technicians are our racehorses.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:32:02]:
And I grew up around horses. So if you expect a horse to race, they need to be fed, watered, rested, and exercised. Yeah. And, and those are my team. Those are my boys. As much as I might want to go out and strangle them sometimes, they're still my boys and I'm going to take care of them. And now we have girls on the technician team too, right? So I got to say boys and girls for, for now. But all my boys were boys.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:32:27]:
Yeah. So, you know, and, and I might be mad at them all I wanted, but if somebody came at them, by golly, I was going to stand in the gap for them and be like, you stay off my tech. That's, that's my boy.
Jeff Compton [00:32:37]:
You don't mess with him. Yeah. And I find that sometimes too, like I was that guy that sometimes, like the advisor, when something was taking longer or something didn't go right or whatever, I never got dressed down in front of the customer, you know what I mean? But as a technician, but I was like out there and the customer might be going, well gee, why did we tune it up if it ended up, you know, that the tune-up wasn't going to fix it? And then I have to— I'm looking at them going, do you want me to take this? Or like, because I could take it, you know. And I would say, well, like, you brought us a car that you said, you know, didn't start when it was cold. In the morning first thing. And yet when we got here, we'd started it up 100 times in a row and we looked at the history and we looked at the condition of your spark plugs, going back to spark plugs, and they were way past due and we changed it and now you still have a problem. So I was never getting dressed down, but I was always sometimes having to have the, why am I having this conversation? I always felt like the advisor, I'm not trying to say they should be able to make stuff up on the fly, that's not what I'm trying to say, but they should be able to have that conversation the same thing that I would say in a logical, rational way. 'Cause I always felt like, you know, the technician is the product you're selling.
Jeff Compton [00:33:50]:
That's your product. Like, 'cause we can get cars fixed anywhere. We can buy parts anywhere. What keeps them coming back to certain places is how well that actually gets executed. You know, the car doesn't come back, the car doesn't leave greasy, still leaking oil, whatever. The complaint's fixed. That's the whole product you have to sell. It's not about price.
Jeff Compton [00:34:09]:
It's about your product. So good on you for standing up for your boys. That's, you know, that's what we all technicians like, We'll go to work and work for somebody that pays a little bit less if you truly have our back. I think that's the one thing that I'm starting to see with all these conversations we're having in the industry where I'm seeing more and more owners are going, yeah, I go to bat for my team. Now, it really sucks. I talk to a lot of guys too. It's like they have people that are not just living up and they have to bounce them. They have to fire them.
Jeff Compton [00:34:40]:
They have to do whatever. And that sucks because I know that how hard that is when you've poured in and you've defended and then it still doesn't work out. You know, it's, you know, how do you handle that?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:34:55]:
It was, it was heart-wrenching, you know, like, like heartbreaking sometimes. It was kind of interesting because everybody that my husband ever worked for ended up working for us at some point. Right. And, and a lot of the people that he worked with ended up working for us at some point. Yeah. So we had this nice little network of, you know, friends and family or chosen family, let's say that, that we all kind of stuck together. Yeah. And so, you know, his first boss, we had to let go and talk about I mean, that— it broke that relationship.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:35:41]:
Um, but, you know, he'd been in the business for 34, 35, 40 years. He was tired. His, you know, he'd had to have knee replacements, he'd had a hip replacement. Yeah. And what it came down to was he barked at one of my customers, and then he did it again. And I'm like, you can't you can't talk to my customers like that, right? Like, you, you can't. He, he kind of lost it on— it was a lady and she was asking, she was being super reasonable, she wasn't in his grill or anything, like, she was being super reasonable. And he's like, he just threw up his hands, he literally threw his hands up because, well, what do you want me to do? Yeah.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:36:22]:
And I was like, um, go, go, go, I think it's your lunchtime, go get Get out of my office. You know, that was, that was heart-wrenching. It ruined our relationship. And they were one— him and his wife were wonderful people. We'd go out to dinner with them. We were friends. They were awesome people. It broke my heart, you know? And that wasn't the only one we had.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:36:45]:
We had a tech that we hired twice and he had a, he had a pretty solid temper and he'd get, he'd get super frustrated. And then, you know how when you get frustrated, your brain goes on vacation? And nothing works, you know. And, and we've, we've all had those moments, right? But, but it would be like he'd get into that mode and then he couldn't get out of it.
Jeff Compton [00:37:15]:
Yeah, I'm not— yeah, when I get frustrated, the only thing that runs right is my mouth. That's the only thing I can run anymore, because it's, it's— and, and coming back to the, the pain thing, Like, I've noticed in the last year with how much I'm in when I'm doing the job, I have to really slow down even more and focus because I just can't focus. Like, we were talking, you know, before we got on about my shoulder, and there's sometimes there's so much pain in there, I'm constantly thinking about the pain in my shoulder and at the same time thinking about what I'm doing to the car. And it's— if it's routine basic stuff, it's not a big deal. If I'm trying to get through a tie-in and my— and part of my body is just freaking out at me. Oh man, I'm a mess trying to keep it all straight. Like, it's really hard. Not defending your people, but I think there's some truth to that.
Jeff Compton [00:38:03]:
When we see the, the older technicians where they get to be like they're just a bear and you can't even poke them, I think that's a big part of it. I really do. Like, it's just, you know, it either— we're in a situation in our life where it's like we didn't end up where we thought we were going to be, or We're in so much pain and it's like our, our patience level is just a lot of it's taken up dealing with that. So not excusing bad behavior.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:38:29]:
No. Yeah, no. And I've, you know, one of the things that I wish I'd known then that I know now is all of all just what you're talking about. Pain puts us in survival mode. Yeah. Stress puts us in survival mode. And I think honestly his challenge was he wanted to do— he wanted to please us. He wanted to do the best job he could.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:38:54]:
Yeah. And it was like the more frustrated he got, then he'd get down on himself and then he'd get down and down and down to where he was in a pit. And, and as much as you could try to be like, you know, go work on something else, take a deep breath, we'll get back to this, whatever he couldn't. He couldn't break free of it. Yeah. And, you know, this is always a hot button, but, but this is where my big challenge with flat rate comes in. Okay. And if, if people are stressed out about money, they're in survival mode.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:39:33]:
Yeah. And if you, if you expect somebody to come in and do their best for you every day, but sometimes there's no pay for them being there. Yeah. How do you— how are you helping them? How are you— you're putting them in stress, in a stressor. They're wondering, well, is this going to be better tomorrow or next week? So they're in stress mode and they can't perform. Again, back to horses, right? If a horse is stressed out, they're going to be high-headed. They're going to be trying to run off. I've been bucked off enough horses.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:40:10]:
I don't need to do that anymore. So, you know, we have to, we have to understand the human psyche. And I think there used to be a degree of mental toughness like you're talking about where the, you know, the bear, right? The bear just keeps on trudging day in and day out. Well, our bears have gotten much more sensitive, and I'm not saying that in any kind of derogatory way. It's just that that downward pressure of stress, they don't handle as well as they used to. So if we can give them a base pay and take the highs and lows out and then reward productivity or reward performance, we're taking that survival mode out.
Jeff Compton [00:40:53]:
Yeah. You've seen it. I'm sure you've read it. Everybody says, well, the average technician is just an absolute fool when it comes to money and finances and scheduling, putting away and all that kind of stuff. Listen, some of us are, we're terrible with money. If I had all the money back that I've wasted on a lot of crazy stuff, I would have a lot less stress. But I always defended it with a sense of like, well, I was never making enough money where— and this is going to— oh yes, you were— that I could be putting $100 a week away for retirement or whatever, rainy day fund, whatever you want to call it. 'Cause it would always seem like I was always paying for a new tool or I was always trying to fix my own broke-down vehicle so that I could still get to work and fix the customer's vehicles.
Jeff Compton [00:41:43]:
It could always seem like there was never enough left over. And that put me 100% in survival mode. And then when you put them in survival mode, and then it's like they're in that situation where they're high-skill performing diag, that's even worse. Because it's like, it's— you're in that survival headspace of like, oh frick, what is this job even going to pay? And you can't— there isn't a set number because you're doing a diag. So it's like the best you may do is get your pay covered, your time covered, excuse me. And then you're watching somebody over there who can't do what you can do because it's a skill set, and they're going to hit 12 hours today because you're like, he's going to go put struts, brakes, tires, and a steering rack in that car, and you'll have it done by 2, and that's 12 hours. And I'm over here like, got 2 more cars outside for, you know, CAN diagnostic problems and an intermittent no-start. And you're like, the best you can hope is that when you go home in that day, you're gonna make 8 hours.
Jeff Compton [00:42:43]:
And, you know, so that was my always rub with flat rate, is it's not set up to be, um, fair for the different skills gaps. Now, do you think, Jean Ann, Can it— if we change the rate that it pays per hour based on the skill set, can it work? Or do you think it still puts—
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:43:04]:
I personally feel like that there's no— you could have 3 techs in a shop and have them on 3 different pay plans, in my opinion. Right. Yeah. Because you might have a younger, a younger tech who's like a solid C and can bust out oil changes and brake work. Perfect. Hey, feed him, right? So, he's going to be on a base plus commission, but maybe at a lower rate. And then your diag guy, if he's working 40 hours a week, but he can only flag 20, maybe we need to give him a higher base and a lower production, you know, something like that where they don't get hurt. Again, it's got to be a win for everybody.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:43:47]:
So, I'm not a proponent that everybody's on the same pay plan. It could scale differently. The most important thing from my side as the advisor is that we're making our profit margin on our labor. So I, I had a, I had a guy, one of my clients, and he's like, I've got this guy and he can't break 75% production. And I was like, wait, what? Hold on, my— I think I had wax in my ear. Did you say 75? And he goes, yeah, 75. And that's like 30 hours out of 40. And I'm like, I'm not seeing the problem yet.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:44:31]:
And he said, I said, well, what's his comeback rate? And he said he doesn't do any comebacks. And I looked him, it was on Zoom, but I looked him straight in the eye and I said, you let him produce that 30 hours all year long and you pay him because to have a tech who is just He's just out there putting one foot in front of the other, fixing things, putting the fires out. He's giving you 30 hours a week and you're making your margin on him. Leave him alone. Yeah. Say thank you. Give him a donut. Give him, give him a gift card.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:45:08]:
Give him a bonus at the end of the year.
Jeff Compton [00:45:10]:
Give him a basket of groceries on the gift card.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:45:12]:
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Whatever he wants. If he like— whatever he likes, give him a gift card. Hard. Because if you had a shop full of techs producing 75%, we don't have any problems. Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:45:28]:
You know, can I ask you a question now? When you're talking to some of the people and they say that, are they coming from people that— how do I say this the right way— were they high skilled when they were a tech and now they're an owner and they can't see it? Or were they always like— because I want to say it's like, I have a theory that a lot of them that were shop owners now, they were like really good B-techs, but they never really hit that level of an A-tech. So they go, and so like production was never a big deal. They hit 50 a week, right, in a 40-hour constant, 110%. When they all of a sudden come in now, I don't even think they can relate to the technician that, you know, puts out all the fires, does the, the, the Oh, another Euro car. Yeah, give it to Carl. Like, Carl will get through it, you know. Um, I think— is that a lot of what they're looking at, is they can't even relate to that tech that's up?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:46:21]:
Yeah, see, yeah, yeah, I think so. And, and there's still— it, it shocks me sometimes because a lot of independent shop owners are comparing themselves to dealers. And so it's not the same. We're, we're— we, we should just like throw that all out the window. We're not in competition with them. We have a totally different business model than they do. And so, you know, yes, they have a technician that can produce 50 hours, but he's done that job, he's doing the same job over and over and over again. So yeah, he can do 50, 60 hours a week.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:47:03]:
You've got a guy who's working on GMs, he's working on Japanese, he's working on whatever comes through the door. And at the same time, if he's one of your older techs and he's got, you know, there's a couple of younger guys, they're coming to him for questions. He's mentoring your team by accident. He's like, "Hey, Bob, look at this. I don't know what to do. Do this, this, and this." So, he just saved you a comeback. So, if Bob's giving you 75%, out of 40 hours and he's doing all of that, please give him a raise and a Bass Pro Shops gift card. And please buy him lunch at the end of the week because he's golden, right? And that's how I talked my guy off the ledge.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:47:50]:
I'm like, let's look at this productivity and let's look at what he's making you. It pencils. Leave him alone. His profit center is solid. Go look at the other guy. Who's not even doing 20 hours a week and you're paying him. Let's go talk to him about productivity.
Jeff Compton [00:48:07]:
Or he hit 40, but 6 hours had to be redone. You know what I mean? Yeah. Which, so there's like 40, but 6 hours had to be done. So the real number is 34, which means 6 hours of lost time. Plus, can you put the other 4 that he's ahead on, can you buy the reputation back with that? No, you can't. So, the guy that's at 30 and the guy that's at 40 with 6 hours to come back, rounding over hypothetical numbers here, is not the better performer. Let's stop that shit.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:48:38]:
Yes. Yeah. And we have to take each tech as an individual. The days of thinking about our whole team, they're not widgets that we can plug into a situation and expect them to prosper. You're an individual. You need a different type of management than the guy next to you, than the guy next to him. And I might need to sit you down and have a conversation at a totally different level than them. And we can't continue to do this cookie-cutter style of leadership in our shops.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:49:13]:
We've got to lead the individual to what they can receive. Right. That's, that's one of my soapbox that I will stand on all day long. Look at that person, get to know them and know where their pain is so that you can help them work through it or achieve, like you said, they're, they're bad savers. I had a shop owner who went and bought the Dave Ramsey DVDs, and once a week he was sitting down with his team and they were doing lunch and learns on how to manage your money with the envelope system. Right. And I was like, good on you. Like, what, you know, they might drink the Kool-Aid on that, they might not, but at least he gave them an opportunity.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:49:59]:
Yeah. You know, and that gives him an opportunity to follow up with them. Because another thing I'm really big about is one-on-ones with your team members, you know, sit down with them. So if you know, if Bob wants to buy a house, well, how are we going to get Bob there? Do you need— does he need to fix his credit score? Does he need a realtor? Does he need a banker? We've all got those people in our hip pockets, right? And if we don't, we know somebody who does. Yeah. So, so here's our plan. You know, let's fix this thing first. We've got to fix your credit score, get your Snap-on bill down, get your credit card bill down, sell your motorcycle, whatever that looks like.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:50:35]:
And they obviously have to buy in. But, you know, coach them on an individual level and give, and give them the keys to success. We're here to move them forward regardless of if they stay with us or not. We can be that foundation that they step from, and that's a win.
Jeff Compton [00:50:54]:
Now I gotta ask you, because it sounds very interesting to me when you— so you and your husband start your shop and he come from a flat rate background. What— how did you come to the decision to go to— I'm going to assume you guys probably were on a hybrid plan, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:51:10]:
At that point we were on— I'm trying to remember. I've been trying to think about how we started. I think we were paying them base plus a bonus for every hour they produced.
Jeff Compton [00:51:23]:
Right, right.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:51:24]:
So hybrid. Yeah. Yeah. And, and it, and it varied because we did have a diagnostic rate. So if they were doing, you know, if they've got 10% of the regular rate, they got 10% at diag rate also. So we, we had them covered because, you know, you know, as well as I knew, DIAC sucks and it takes forever. And even then, you know, sometimes they were chasing their tail. Yeah.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:51:49]:
So we started off at a base plus commission, and then when we got with the coaching company, then we went to a progressive pay plan where they have a base. Once they hit 30 hours of production, they get an hourly raise, and then at 40 they get another raise, and at 50 they get another raise. So they can stair-step themselves into whatever as much as they can produce.
Jeff Compton [00:52:16]:
Your husband, and I apologize, I don't know his name, so I'll keep saying your husband. Oh, it was Tim. Tim. Okay. So was Tim a holdout at one point maybe for a flat rate? Because he had been successful at it, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:52:30]:
He had, but at the same time, he was the low man on the totem pole. So guess who was on duty during Christmas? Week. Yeah. And the Friday after Thanksgiving and Saturdays sometimes.
Jeff Compton [00:52:45]:
Um, so, you know, the first month when the kids go back to school is slow, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:52:49]:
Like, yes. And, and we were in a college town, so, you know, when the kids went home in June, that was— the summer was actually slow because, you know, a third of the population of the town was gone. Yeah. So, you know, there were times when I'd be done with school and I'd call him and be like, hey, what are you doing? And he's like, oh, well, there was nothing to do, so I'm working on my truck, or I decided to go to the shooting range or whatever, you know. So in as much as he was successful at it, it was because he was good. Yeah. Because he was a single man, you know, before I showed up. He worked till 10:00 at night because he, he was living at home with his family, his parents, and there was trouble at home.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:53:36]:
So he didn't want to go home. So he might as well just sit and work, you know? And I kind of, I kind of broke him of that because then I started bringing him home and feeding him every night. So then, you know, all of a sudden he's showing up at my house at 6 and asking me what's for dinner. Yeah. You know, so in as much as he, he made a lot of money, he also had those weeks where he didn't make anything.
Jeff Compton [00:54:00]:
Yeah. So he'd been punished by the system. He knew. Yes.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:54:04]:
Yeah, that's good. And his—
Jeff Compton [00:54:06]:
go ahead. Because, you know, you see, sometimes I see that conversation and you see the shop owner, he's like, I killed it forever the whole time I was on the bench, as they say, right? And I came in and I can't understand why anybody would ever want to, you know, work any other way but flat rate. And I remind them that it's like Man, you must have been really lucky where you worked because there was never dry days, you know what I mean? Or it was like you were high skilled enough that like you might get 10 hours in by lunch and then, you know, you might get 10 in that afternoon. But then the next day, if it was dead, you got nothing. But it balances out. That's still a wicked average.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:54:43]:
Yeah.
Jeff Compton [00:54:44]:
You know? Yeah. So when I see that all the talk all the time, it's like I would never pay my guys anywhere else. We have to remember that, like, do you— there's a, there's a collective of us that come from really high-performing shops that have always been able to make it work, right? But you have such a collective of people like myself that come from the dealer where we can remember weeks that, like, you didn't make more than 4 hours a day. You can remember going in on a Saturday and being there all day long and only getting 2 hours. And you can remember, like, you know, doing everything being flagged as a comeback even as it wasn't because it was just easier to get it into the shop that way. Like, you can remember all stuff. And everybody goes, well, that's just mismanagement and that's poor leadership. I understand that you're 100%, you're right, it is.
Jeff Compton [00:55:28]:
But this is what brings us to why am I jaded, because that was my career, right? That was what it was. Good on Tim for seeing the bad and the good and realizing that there might be a better way. Let's try something. So that's awesome.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:55:48]:
Yeah, we were very proactive in that. And I, you know, I always look at things through— he's my lens, you know. And, and even now with, with my clients, I'm like, okay, either they're, they're Tim and he's the guy who decides to open a shop but doesn't have a me. So he's holding up, you know, he's the guy with the world on his shoulders, or it's us, it's a husband and wife team that, you know, then I see us even if I see a partnership and I— these are the ones that I'm, I'm like, you know, people who've never been in the industry and decide to buy an auto repair shop, which takes a tremendous— like, that's an entrepreneurial seizure I can't even figure out because if, if I didn't have Tim's knowledge to back me up on the counter I couldn't have done what I did. Yeah. So and, and who's to say, you know, because there's all these judgment calls, right? You have a car come back. Well, did we, did we do something wrong or did the part fail? Yeah. Is it like, so who, who makes it? It's that, it's that Solomonic wisdom, like, whose fault is it? Yeah.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [00:57:05]:
So, or did the customer do something? You know, there's Bless their hearts. There's always the customers who— they get it out of the shop and go do something stupid and then come up and be like, well, it's been doing that since I— since you had it. And you're like, you know, wait a minute, we gave— we did an oil change and now the radio doesn't work.
Jeff Compton [00:57:25]:
Like, really? Yeah, there's a fuse missing because, you know, you blew the cigarette lighter with a car charger and you went and just yanked out a random fuse and plugged it in, and the car, you know, the the kid's cell phone charger works again, but now something else stops working and you're like, well, I just had it in the shop. They always forget to mention that, that I, hey, I might have done this. I never understood that. The thing you talk about, the people that are coming in and wanting to buy with no background and buy a shop, they scare me. They really do because it's like, you know, I, I— how do I— how do they relate to me? You know what I mean? Like, how do they relate to Tim? How would they relate to you? Like, it just— it's so different. I don't think you can get taught this in a weekend or a week class of this is— well, this is what running a shop's going to look like, and this is what the typical mechanic that you're going to deal with is going to be like. Like, I don't think you, you get that. I think you have to be— I think you've had that boots on the floor, you know, in asset to really truly understand, especially when we start talking, you know, if you want to change this industry.
Jeff Compton [00:58:31]:
Now, I do like the idea that some people are coming in and they don't have this romanticized notion of what it is to be a mechanic, where it's like, you know, my grandpa used to stand out at the gas pumps and squeegee the window and fill them up. And one night he fixed the tire after hours and didn't charge the pregnant lady. We romanticize that and we're in love with that. I get it, but I like the idea that some people are coming in and they're just business-minded people and like, hey, this sucker should be at a margin of this and we're going to get it there. I appreciate that, but I don't know how they relate to, to me or how they relate to the technician. And I think that's what we're trying to build with these platforms is, is understanding where we come from. I'm only out here talking so that people, when they meet another one that's just like me, because hey, I'll tell you right now, there's a thousand like Right. You know, when you meet them, you understand better why I'm the way I am and why they're the way they are.
Jeff Compton [00:59:24]:
It's because we're just self-preservation. Like, you know, our brains are going— we're all on the spectrum at some point. Like, we're weird, you know. We, we deal better with like machines than we do with people. People make us frustrated. Like, trying to teach people that when they come into this industry is really tough. But I've met some really cool people that that, you know, never had boots on the ground, but they come in and they just put the trust in their people. That's key, right? Put the trust in them, give them tasks, you know, empower them.
Jeff Compton [00:59:55]:
That's huge, right? Empower them, show them value, and man, they'll go to war for you. They're 100%.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:00:02]:
So yeah, and, and not to, not to put in any kind of a commercial, but those— the, the shop owners that I have that, that are from outside the industry they, they want to know. They're like, tell us what we don't know. Don't be afraid to point out where my— there's a gap in my knowledge because I'm not an expert at this. I decided to buy this and I know what I don't know. Um, and their, their heart's in it and they want to take care of their people and they want to take care of the customer, and they also want to know what they don't know. Yeah. And that's, that's priceless, right? I think it's the people that come in and think, well, this is, this is a cash register and it should be making me this much margin at this point and this much margin at this point? And if it's not, then who's the problem? And, and put a wrench on it and fix it. And it's not always that easy.
Jeff Compton [01:00:52]:
Yeah, you can't rubber stamp that one and then go rubber stamp another one right around, you know, in the next county or, you know, 5 miles down the road. You can't rubber stamp another one there. Like, each one is a living thing that is slightly different than the next one. We talk about scale and scalability and duplicating this, replicating that. There's some truth to it, sure. But like, you talk to some shop owners and it's like, well, I don't get near the roadside traffic going past this place, so we have to completely change how we market the business. And then even when we do the— to get the customer in the door, because I don't have so many other people coming by all the time, I have to even sometimes take a little bit more care of that customer because it's harder to get that customer. I told everybody for years dealerships have got it so easy.
Jeff Compton [01:01:39]:
We shouldn't even be thinking about how they do things, because every time they sell a car, they generate a new customer. It can only be a warranty customer, right? Doesn't matter. They generated a new customer, right? You know, it— they still are going to do repairs on that car and get paid money. Now, it's not going to be for the customer, be from the OE, right? But you— for all intents and purposes, they trust that they're going to go back to that dealership, A, because the warranty's got them locked in, or B, well, it's brand new and nobody else has seen one yet, like, I'm gonna go there. We cannot operate like that. We have to operate completely different.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:02:10]:
So, and, and even deeper on that, you know, they get— I'll use my brother as an example. He was on vacation with his family, two, you know, two little kids and his wife, and they're in a fairly remote for California, like they're in a podunk town with a Chevy dealership. Okay. And he takes in his Silverado and the transmission puked. And they're like, well, it's going to cost you $6,000 for a transmission, or we could put you in a new truck. For X amount of dollars and take this one as a trade-in, which then they're gonna fix and either wholesale out or put on the lot. Yeah, we don't have that option.
Jeff Compton [01:02:47]:
No, no, you know. Yeah, because we don't want— like, we don't need a, uh, we don't need a lot out front of all these cars that we've bought and fixed, you know, to try and sell, because like that ties up so much money in the bank. Waiting for that to come through. I've always said the people that sell a used car at the same place that they do repairs, that's a slippery slope to walk on because you can sell them something that's completely— I mean, I work at a car lot, so I know. I can sell them something and a year later when something pops up, they're mad because it popped up a year later. And I'm like, I could have not known when I sold this to you that this was going to happen. Now we can also look and go, okay, you bought a Nissan and, you know, or Silverado, you know, they have some transmission issues. Like, right, you know, it was inevitable, it's gonna happen, you know.
Jeff Compton [01:03:40]:
Um, I don't know how to— I, I still struggle with that conversation with the customers because like I look at it like we're all living in this world where everything that we'd ever want to know the answer to is right in the palm of our hand, and then people don't bother to do that research to go, should I really buy this or should I not? I feel bad because it's I'm like, well, did you not know this was going to happen? Like, of course the salesman doesn't tell you, right, every one of these Chevy trucks with this 8 or 10-speed is going to need a transmission by the time it's got 100,000 miles on it. They're not going to tell you that because they never sell you one. But you, if you spend any kind of Google time, would see that it is a very common issue. And if you still so choose to, to buy, cool, but don't be shocked and don't be angry when it does because it was just gonna happen, you know, right? That's tough for me. So when the people say like, I'm selling cars, you know, I'm going to flip cars, I'm like, oh man, because that's the one way to destroy your service side of your business because of the car that you sold. Do you understand what I mean? That's, that's 100%.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:04:40]:
Yeah. Yeah.
Jeff Compton [01:04:40]:
You guys never dabbled in that, you know?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:04:43]:
No, we— the one I'm trying to think— the one, the one thing we ended up with was some people brought in like a '91 Miata Miata, and they'd overheated it, like literally blew the radiator apart. Yeah. And we're like, okay, it's gonna cost $400 to put a radiator in it, but we can't guarantee the head gasket's not blown, so it's up to you. $400, maybe blown head gasket. And they said, well, we don't want to fix it. And my husband said, well, I'll give you $400 for it. So we gave him $400, put a radiator in it, and we had a Miata. And, and it was fun.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:05:19]:
It was my weekend grocery getter, and I got to put the top down and scoot into town and scoot back home. It was fun, right? So it was just, it was a cheap way to have a little runaround car and it was fun. Yeah. But no, we never, we never bought anything with the idea that we were going to fix it and sell it. That was not— we did have— we had a family that was wonderful and they bought two of our personal use trucks. Okay. Because they knew that we had, we had taken care of them and they felt comfortable. And so it worked out.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:05:58]:
And that was a little touchy. That was a very special situation because of who the people were, because that could easily have blown up. Oh, you know, and they never came back. You know, inevitably it was in that era where the clips on the door handles and the, and the, the tailgates would pop. Yeah. You know, so they're like, oops, it happened. Can you fix that for us? And they would happily pay us, right? They were just the best people. So, you know, that again is a slippery slope.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:06:25]:
Otherwise they got traded in because those kinds of problems aren't worth having, you know, and it's just not worth it. So you got to pick your poison. What do you want to do?
Jeff Compton [01:06:37]:
Now, I don't mean to make, you know, pick a sore subject, But you kind of lost him at some point, right? Yeah. Yeah. Now, how did that— was there a transition after? Like, did you kind of continue to try and keep the business going without him, or—
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:06:55]:
No. Um, so unfortunately, the way that it went down was that in the summer of 2015, um, he was diagnosed with stage 4 melanoma. And so we still had the shop. He, you know, but that it's one of the hardest to treat cancers there is. Yeah. And, um, we got sent to the expert on the West Coast at Cedars-Sinai Medical Clinic, which is, you know, where everybody goes. Yeah. And he was about 5 years behind the technology, and he wanted to cut.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:07:34]:
And I was like, no, we were both like, no. So we walked away from that and I, I started doing some digging and I found out that one of the leading melanoma doctors in the world was, um, at a, at a treatment center in Salt Lake City. Okay. And so, um, got him in there, like did a whirlwind weekend trip to Salt Lake, like, you know, 18-hour drive, whole, whole deal. Um, they accepted him into a trial, and the first thing he needed to do was be in Utah for 4 weeks, and then we were going to need to be in Salt Lake every other— every third week for a year. Yeah. And I was really proud of him because I told him, I said, I will do whatever you want to do, but you have to have faith in your treatment. So if you want to be treated here, I'm, I'm telling you, this is I'm in favor of this, but you have to make the decision.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:08:31]:
And so we were driving back to California from Utah and he was real quiet and he goes, I want to do this. And I said, okay. And in my little heart, I'm having a panic attack thinking, what are we going to do with the shop? And then he looks at me and goes, what are we going to do with the shop? And I was like, well, You know, right now, well, um, I, I did— I was like, we were working fast. I immediately called unemployment and I was like, look, this is my situation. Can my guys go on unemployment and then come back to work and then go on unemployment and then come back to work? And they, they said yes. So, so the plan was that first 30 days they were going to go on unemployment and then we would work 2 weeks, off a week, work 2 weeks, off a week. And then we were driving back to Utah the next week for our 30-day stint. And I looked at him and I said, you know, we've got to sell because what happened the minute we got the phone call from the doctor that that was the problem I didn't care if I changed oil again.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:09:49]:
I didn't care if I sold a timing belt. I didn't care. I didn't care. My whole perspective just shifted into what are we going to do to make this okay? And I can't— you can't run a business that way. You've got to care. So while we were in Salt Lake, I teed up my realtor and got her. She went in and took pictures. She had a drone video and got it listed and we sold it by the end of the year.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:10:23]:
The last day of business for us was December 22nd of 2015, and we found a unicorn buyer. They gave us a full price deal. They took our two techs on day one with insurance. There was no gap in their insurance. They took them on at the pay that we were paying them. They, they just showed up and had a different name on their shirt.
Jeff Compton [01:10:45]:
So I say just, but how great is that, Gina, and that you guys then had the business already at a point where it sold pretty easy, you know what I mean? And, and didn't displace your people that have been so important to you, right? And the people, I mean, yeah, the people will miss, you know, you guys being there, but the fact that they see a familiar face with a technician sitting there Good on you, honestly. Like, I, I mean that from the bottom of my heart because there's so many that don't get that right, you know what I mean? Yeah. And something like this happens and all of a sudden it's like they just shutter the doors, right? And, and all this time and sweat equity that they put into it, and it wasn't worth anything to the next person that came along.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:11:26]:
They didn't want it. Yeah. And that's, that's where I go back and credit— I— that the moment where, where that gentleman told me we were in a very dangerous position Yeah, you know, sometimes where the hand of the higher power is on you, whatever higher power you believe in. And in— we'd been in business for 10 years. In that 4 years, we went from maybe, maybe 5% on the bottom line to somewhere between 20 and 25, fully funded 401(k)s, and and a business that was worth selling, right? We had, we had the property to sell, but we also had the business to sell. And that made all the difference. That one conversation and me saying yes to that, us saying yes to that, because it was a joint decision, us saying yes to that then created that trajectory where we could do that. And then once we sold the business, we moved out of California because can't afford to stay there and move down here to Texas and reinvested the money.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:12:37]:
So we had a passive income. And my goal was that neither one of us would ever have to have a full-time job again because stress, you know, stress and cancer don't mix. My, my goal was always he was going to survive this. And what I was going to do or we were going to do was set him up like in a van and have him be a hotshot diagnostic. Stick and set him up with the scan. We had all— I still have his— I still have his red brick, I still have his Vantage, I even have a PicoScope, right? They're all sitting in the shrine of the toolbox. Um, but he didn't survive. And so, um, it is what it is, right? It hurt, it sucked.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:13:22]:
But again, the way everything was set set me up that when he did pass, I was— I didn't have to have a job for years. So I was able to go through the grieving process and rebuild my life without money stress. Yeah. And none of that would have been possible if I hadn't said yes. And so I have a deep gratitude to all the people who crossed my path in that situation, because that would have been a totally, totally different situation if we hadn't been there.
Jeff Compton [01:14:02]:
And again, for people that are listening, you know, we've had a lot of coaches on, and, you know, we see all the names and the companies and all that, and they're all great. I'm not trying to— I don't have a— like, there's none that I don't— they don't— I don't have the respect. But what she shared with you is something that I think is like not only is the recipe there for how to make the business be successful, but she's showing you how— like, there isn't much more proof that you can get that it actually, you know, what, what she teaches will work. Because like, she was able to sell it for what it should have sold for, walk away from it, and not be stuck where it's like, I gotta go work the counter for another shop. 'You know, and my husband has to go to the dealer and take a job now.' I'm not saying that any of those— there's anything wrong with that. I'm not trying to say that. But it's through her method and their thinking here that she was able to walk away— not walk away, but come out of this in as good a place as you could expect, I guess is the right way to say that. Jean Ann, you know, my heart goes out to you for for that because it's— I've never been through that.
Jeff Compton [01:15:19]:
I can't even imagine. But I love what you were able to do for your people. I really do. Like, that is— that must make it so much easier too, right, to just know that like they're taken care of.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:15:35]:
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And, and you know, the, the hardest thing was saying goodbye to the customers. That was really hard because we had, you know, We were lucky, and I didn't tell you this, when we started the shop, we had people that had followed him from the Chevron to the Unocal and then followed us to our shop. Yeah. So at that point, um, let's see, he started when he was 16, we started the shop when he was 33. He had 18 years of clientele that followed him. And so then you add 15 years to that that we had 3 and 4 generations of family members coming in and we were working on their cars. And you'll hear me say this, we do sacred work.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:16:21]:
People are putting their trust in us to put them and their families on the road and for them to be safe. If we need a why, that's why. And that was the hardest. And I still have some of them I keep in touch with, and I know that I could pick up the phone and call any handful of them and be like, "Hey, how you doing? How's the family? You know, all of those things. And, and that's a testament. I don't, I don't take all the credit because he was, he was the heart and soul.
Jeff Compton [01:16:55]:
And you guys were a team though. Yes, we were. See that, right? You can hear it, you know it to be, because you were his biggest fan, huge advocate for him. And I likewise was, he was for you, I'm sure. And You know, that's what I mean when I say people like, you know, everybody gets on me and I see the comments and the threads and all this kind of stuff. It was like, oh, this is overcharging and that's overcharging. And, you know, everybody wants to compare it to the medical field or restaurants, and it's not either. You know, it's closer to the medical field, but like, we touch people's lives every day with what we do.
Jeff Compton [01:17:29]:
And it's not a situation of so much that it's like, yeah, it's just a routine oil change. Okay. But they are relying on that piece of equipment, that vehicle. That is, for some people now, that is their whole— it's the only reward they have for going to a job and punching a clock is that car. That is their freedom. And freedom is the most important thing in life. That's what I learned is my ability to move about as freely as I wish., you know, because I have the means to do so. We're forgetting that too much in day in and day out.
Jeff Compton [01:18:08]:
We're just like, we're doing a routine, I'm plugging a tire. Yeah, the fact that we're doing that and we're doing it in the right way and safe so that people don't have an accident is huge. And we have to never, ever, ever not respect what that is, right? And there are some times in my career where I've looked it over real quick and it's— but, you know, you were touching people's lives by their trusting Yes.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:18:30]:
Yeah. And we, we became their trusted advisor. It wasn't just we were working on their car. And, you know, you know as well as I do that when the average mom's car goes down, what does that look like logistically? Right. You know, and, and you're seeing them in it. And I don't want to elevate our position, but in a lot of ways we are first responders because they're coming to us and they're in in crisis and it's like, well, I'll get you, you know, did you get the kids a ride to school? Yes. I'll get you a ride to work. We're going to get the car in as quick as we can.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:19:04]:
I'm going to call you as fast as I can and we'll see what's going on. You know, now we've got, you know, when I was doing business in the time, there was no Uber, there was no Lyft. So, you know, I'll take you to work. Well, you know, whatever we can within reason to make this as seamless as possible for you. You know, you need to pick it up after hours. Give me a credit card. Will lock your keys in it. Sometimes I would wait.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:19:27]:
Sometimes we'd hang out, you know, for an hour after closing. Those are the things that you do because they're your people. And that's what we do to take care of them. And, and you said, you know, people compare us to the restaurant industry or the medical industry, and we have our own set of gifts and challenges. But my personal feeling is that if you have a technician or you're a shop owner and you put 30 to 40 years of your life into a place, you should walk out of that with a retirement and not Social Security. I don't know what you guys call it in Canada. Yeah, but you should have— you should have your Social Security, you should have a 401(k), you should have had health care, you should have had all the benefits as though you worked for a corporation for 20 to 30 years.
Jeff Compton [01:20:18]:
Yeah. Yeah. Because The box of tools, you know, it's not, it's not going to pay. It's probably not even going to pay 10 cents on every dollar that's in there, right? We're probably talking like a penny for every dollar that's in there by the time you're done. Your old brick that you have, it's, you know, it's a great piece of nostalgia, but nobody's— right, you can buy them for a couple hundred bucks now. Yeah, you know, it's worth more than that. That's what I'm trying to say. And people, going back to it, like, their shop sold well..
Jeff Compton [01:20:45]:
But there's so many of us that it's like you turn the key in the lock and you move your toolbox out when you're done after 30 years and that building just sits there and it's not even yours, you know, and you walk away. And I keep saying, your customers that you, you went without so that they could have, very next day they are at your competitors. Yep. Yeah. And they might wax nostalgic about you. But they're still there. So you have a responsibility and you have a freaking right to make profit and plan for your future, plan for the unexpected, and plan for your retirement. You are owed that.
Jeff Compton [01:21:25]:
That is the reward you get for your skill and your dedication. If anybody tells you any different or if all the naysayers beat you down to say that you shouldn't charge for this and you shouldn't charge for that, Block all that out because they won't be there when you're done to pick you up and help you. They're not going to be there. So when I sound like that jerk that thinks I'm just not giving nothing away, I am thinking about that the end game. And I've been thinking about the end game for a very long time. Not because I wanted out, but because I knew that this is tough. I can't do this till I'm 65. I've got 5 years maybe left.
Jeff Compton [01:22:07]:
Yeah, from a physical standpoint, that's it. So what do I do, you know? So you're sitting, you know, what made you decide to, to, to take this next journey in your life to, to now coaching?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:22:26]:
Um, well, it was one of those things that kind of fell in my lap, honestly. So after, after we closed the shop and after I kind of got my, you know, he passed and I got my stuff back together, I, I was in the coaching space, like in an individual coaching space because coach what you know, which was grief and trauma. Yeah. You know, so many people are walking wounded and they need help and I'm good. I'm good at it, but it just wasn't kind of really taking off. And the opportunity to come in and coach in the automotive realm came up. And it's a perfect, it's a perfect fit for me. And having had a shop from cradle to grave, so to speak, gives me a unique perspective.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:23:15]:
Yes. And I also lived the— I was a tech's wife to begin with, so I know what it's like to watch him come home. You know, what did you do today? Nothing. That, which meant there was no dollars, you know. And I also know what it's like to work with your spouse, and that's a challenge. That's a unique set of challenges. Do you build a shop, buy a shop, rent a shop? I've been through that. I've taken a shop through succession, which turned into a sale rather than like a hands over to a second in command.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:23:50]:
I've been through the ups and downs of hiring and firing and losing, you know, plus I have a background in real estate and I have a background in, you know, going through the loss of a partner. And I have this unique toolset that gives me multiple things, one of which is I know how— I know how that works. Yeah. But I also understand now that this is happening to people. And how do we help these people move through this and look towards the future with a plan for the worst? Because I— one of the things I advocate for is we need to start building a shop day one to sell. Yes. So you can't— you can't think, well, I'll handle that later. No, we need to on day one.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:24:43]:
What's our exit strategy? Yeah. And I had a really sweet older man who he had— he owned a shop and he lost his wife several years ago and had since remarried and his wife was younger than him. And he's like, well, we're doing our succession planning and, and I want her to keep the shop and she's not part of the shop now. And I said, okay, here's my perspective. I couldn't even drive by our shop after my husband passed away. I would drive around it because I couldn't even see it, right, let alone walk in. Yeah. And I said, for you, when your wife passed, that was your safe space.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:25:29]:
That was where you could go in and turn out all the pain and turn off the grief and just put yourself under a car and work. But for her, she doesn't know anything about the business. She doesn't want to run the business. You need to have a plan for her to help her get it sold. Yeah. And he was like, I didn't even think about it that way. I just thought she'd want to come here and it would be nostalgic for her. And I said, no, it's going to be painful.
Jeff Compton [01:25:59]:
Yeah. And, and go ahead. How successful would it be with her in charge? Right. You know what I mean? Like, and, and And I'm not trying to say because she's a female, it's him, but he was the tech. And if she's not that involved in the business day to day right now, I don't believe that that's like giving somebody an anchor with no boat. Yeah, exactly. They're not going to float. They're going to be tied to where they are in a very bad way.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:26:27]:
So, wow. So, yeah. So I just have this, and I always feel like our experiences become more meaningful if we can help other people move through them. And, you know, I'm not the only one. I'm not the only one that this has happened to. I was just lucky that I had the tools and the ability and the— I'm going to call it luck or coincidence, grace, whatever you want to call it— to be on this side of it and be where I am. I'm the unicorn. Yeah, you know, it's, it's funny how when you go through an experience, then you meeting people going through the same experience.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:27:01]:
And I met a woman whose husband died, and he handled all the finances, and she didn't know that they owed the IRS $100,000. So imagine your husband dies suddenly, like, like literally goes to take a nap and doesn't wake up, and then to come to find out there's $100,000 hanging over your head and you have no way to handle it.
Jeff Compton [01:27:26]:
It. That's, that's not good. And see, I'm sure every day he was doing that to protect her. Yes. But it's a, it's a, it's a foolish oversight. Yeah. You know, it's not helping at the end of the day, you know.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:27:42]:
She's—
Jeff Compton [01:27:42]:
wow. How did, how did that—
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:27:43]:
were you able to turn that around for her? She— that was, that was not a client, that was a friend. So she, I— she somehow figured it out. I don't know what it ended up being, but it worked out for her. Like, she got it figured out. But, you know, I don't— and I don't want, you know, and I'm not saying this to be mean, but if something had happened to me, Tim would have been screwed. Yeah, he didn't— he didn't know. He doesn't— he didn't have the QuickBooks, uh, password. He didn't know, you know.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:28:12]:
I, I— it made somebody laugh one day because, um, every payday I would take a certain amount of cash and I would put put money in his wallet. So I walked up to his toolbox, I pulled out his wallet, and I'm stuffing some money in there. And I think it was one of our vendors, he walks by, goes, get out of his wallet, you don't need to be taking money out of there. And I looked at him and I'm like, I'm the money— I'm putting the money in, you know. So, so he, you know, that's how I took care of him, and that was my department. But if something had happened to me, he would have been stuck. And so it goes both ways. Like, it's not just the husband needs to take care of his wife.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:28:48]:
The wife or the, you know, the partners need to take care of each other, whatever that looks like. You can't, you can't compartmentalize what you do. Everybody's got to know where the super secret passwords are. How do you— who's the guy at the bank? Who's the guy at your local dealer? Who do you need to talk to about accounts receivable and accounts payable? You know, we can't have that level of compartmentalization. And we did. And like I said, if something had happened to me, he would have been in a world of hurt because he wouldn't know up from down with that.
Jeff Compton [01:29:25]:
Because, yeah, and people are listening, you know, we're talking about an illness that came on, but we could all get in the car to drive for lunch and not come back. Yeah, you know, so have our— have your processes laid out. Have, have, have a plan, you know. Have that uncomfortable conversation with, like, if something does happen to me, what do I want to happen to the business? Because, like, you see it. There's, there's these family-run shops. I've worked in one where there's, like, you know, husband, wife, 3 kids working in that shop. Yeah, they need to have it laid out and know If something happens, what do we do? Who takes over for dad or mom or whatever? What's the plan? Or is it already set up and agreed upon? If something happens, this thing's being moved. We're walking away from it all.
Jeff Compton [01:30:18]:
And if we're walking away from it all, you need to be building it every day so that it's got value. So when you walk away, it's like you walk away like Jean Ann did where it's not, how am I going to eat tomorrow? Because the business is gone, you know, and I got all this looming credit over my head that I've gotta, you know, debtors paid.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:30:36]:
You don't want any of that. No, no. Have a plan. Have, you know, it— nobody wants to think about, like, especially— well, nobody wants to think about it. Let's just— that's a complete statement. But, but we know that it can happen. And so, you know, there's a wrong way to do it. I had a guy come in with my workers' comp guy one day And he's like, oh, this guy's in our, in our firm or whatever.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:31:02]:
He's in our agency and he's the life insurance guy. And I'm like, you know, I— A, you didn't make an appointment. I'm not— I can't do this right now. B, I was probably 34 years old at the time and my husband was 39. Like, I was not thinking about him passing. And this guy leans on my counter, he goes, well, you know, 'Well, if something happened to your husband tomorrow, the sharks would be circling.' And I looked at him— I didn't actually look at him, I looked at my workers' comp guy who was about 25 at the time— and I said, 'Get him out of here and don't bring him back.' And both of their eyes got about this big and they both left. Yeah, that's the wrong way. Yeah, right.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:31:50]:
But life insurance is a reasonable expenditure. If you have debt, if you have somebody that needs to be taken care of, it's, it's planning for tomorrow. So as much as I didn't have it, I had retirements, so I didn't need life insurance, although it would have been nice in retrospect. But that's a whole other story. But, you know, make sure your debts are paid, make sure your house is paid off. Hopefully you can give your team 2 weeks severance pay or a month severance pay and they can go find jobs. Jobs, because we can't discount that they're going to be grieving too, especially if you've built a culture and you've built a family around your business. They're going to be as lost as everybody else, and they're going to need time to recover.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:32:34]:
So, you know, that's— and that's what profit is for. You know, profit is not because we're greedy and we're Scrooge McDuck throwing Hundies into the fire. No, no.
Jeff Compton [01:32:45]:
Profit's for the future. I get so tired of having that conversation. And again, I probably have to get to a point where I shut my phone off, is because it's always defending, you know. It— everybody looks at it as like, well, this brake job costs X amount here and that much, and, and all it means is more profit for the, for the other shop. You're darn right it does. Thank God that they're thinking about actually charging profit. That's assuming equal situations, right? We can't compare got, you know, 12-bay shop with a fleet of loaner cars, you know, everybody's got ASE certified, there's 10 different scan tools in the building, 4 different service information systems, you know, 401(k)s, everybody to the little 2-bay with one little code reader. We can't compare.
Jeff Compton [01:33:30]:
We're not comparing. It's like comparing McDonald's to, you know, the nicest steakhouse in Vegas. You can't It's not the same thing. They're both selling food. That's the only similarity. But everybody goes, well, it's just about profit. It damn well should be about profit. People, get that through your heads.
Jeff Compton [01:33:48]:
This isn't about a pat on the back and a smile and feeling great about it and going home at the end of the day not farther ahead than you were yesterday. That's not what this is about. You can't eat that stuff, right? Profit is very necessary. And I, and I, you know, I hate to sound the way I sound when I sound like that, but it's like I, I have so much love for these people in the, in the career that have come to know that it's like, it's not wrong. Stop thinking that it's wrong to earn profit. It's not. Don't be challenged by the people that can't see your value. If they can't see your value, just don't even have the conversation with them, you know.
Jeff Compton [01:34:29]:
They'll come around to you eventually. If your product is that good, they will come back to you.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:34:36]:
Have faith. One of the, one of the things that happened, um, that was just like the total, like, you wanted to bang your head against the wall. We always tried to have a kid, a high school kid. We had a good relationship with a local auto shop teacher, so we always tried to have a shop helper that would come in after school, sweep the floors, do that stuff. And then if they got all the chores done, then they'd get to help work on a vehicle. So that was kind of the trade-off. And they got paid, don't get me wrong, they got paid. They also had access to all the training that we had.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:35:06]:
If they wanted to go to our AC/DELCO classes, whatever, they were more than welcome to do that. So it was a, you know, it was a good deal for everybody. And one of my boys, um, his nickname was Diagnostic Todd, um, with the dreamy eyes. He, um, he put power steering fluid into a brake fluid bottle. Oh, and then we topped off, I think, 4 brake systems before we caught it. So we had one F-150 come back with mushy brakes and we're like, what the heck is going on? Yeah, swollen up brake hoses. Total disaster. Figured out what happened.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:35:54]:
Explained to the customer, hey, this is what happened. We were just totally transparent. This is what happened. It was not intentional. It was a complete boneheaded move accident, but we own it. So we went through that brake system front to back, new master cylinder, new calipers, new— it was front brakes or drums, whole new brake system front to back. Yeah, that customer told everybody that story. And said they screwed up, but they fixed it and they didn't charge me a dime.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:36:26]:
Yeah, he was our biggest. And he— I bet if I put him in this room with us right now, he would tell you that story and he would say, that's what Colony meant to me. Yeah, they stood behind everything they did. And we did 4 of those for, you know, a 12-ounce bottle of brake fluid or power steering fluid.
Jeff Compton [01:36:47]:
And that's what profit's for. I was just gonna say, that's why it's important to be making that extra— I don't know the exact number, Jean Ann, but 10, 15, 20— that so many shops aren't, because it covers up stuff like that. And I mean, we, we get all upset when it's like, what a boneheaded mistake that somebody could have made. Hello, it comes back to what training and leadership are you putting on these people that are coming in that are just They don't know, like, they don't know the difference, right? And is it a terrible situation? Sure it is. It sucks. It's a lot of money. Yeah. My God, like, if you think that that costs you a lot of money, go and tell the customer, you know, look at them in the face and lie to them and tell them, I don't know what happened, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:37:30]:
Or they get in an accident and hurt someone or whatever, whatever, right? So, you know, and, and And that was the right thing to do. So, you know, and it hurt. There's no doubt it hurt. And guess what? We never— we always just bought brand new bottles of fluids. We never mix and match everything. We bought new brake fluid, new parts, new power steering, and no cross— you know, there was no like, let's put this from a bigger bottle into a smaller bottle. We never did that again. So we learned, right? And he learned.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:38:03]:
And, and it was you know, he got a discussion about please be very careful about what you're doing with fluids. But I didn't can him.
Jeff Compton [01:38:12]:
We worked through it.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:38:12]:
I'm gonna ask you what happened. Yeah, no, we, you know, he— and he helped, you know, he helped work on those vehicles when he was there, and he, he got it.
Jeff Compton [01:38:23]:
He was a good kid. Because you see, you see the, the saying all the time, they'll say, you know, Hire slow, fire fast. I saw it today in the group. Oh my God, I got a technician that— hire slow and fire fast. That's so short-sighted as advice. And there's a method to it. There's some validation. But man, it is not that simple.
Jeff Compton [01:38:54]:
I would rather when somebody needs to be fired, again, I'm the why person. Why are they— why is their performance down? Why is their attitude, you know, and again, there's things beyond our control. There's outside, you know, factors that we're not— it's not the shop that's making them the way they are. Right. Job. But by God, like, you better before you just think the answer is to fix them is to fire them. Right. You're just going to get another one.
Jeff Compton [01:39:24]:
Them, right? And if you— if your business is not— I don't want to say perfect, but if your business is not pretty good, you're just going to repeat the cycle, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:39:33]:
And then you're going to be online, you know, saying, I don't understand why this happens, right? And, and that's back to an engaged leader, right? And so if you— and I agree with the hire slow thing. I am all about like, we've got to have 4 first dates before we even think about giving somebody an offer.. And that's for both sides. You know, first date, second date, third date, fourth date. We got to have dates. We're not just— it's the old days. I hired too many people based on they had a pulse and a Snap-on toolbox, right? That, that's not the way to hire because they don't fit your culture. I had one who would not look me in the face and talk to me, like, out of disrespect, not because— not out of humility or doesn't— it was flat-out disrespect.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:40:24]:
Didn't feel he had to. And, um, so I'm all about the higher slow, but I'm also about if you'd been doing your one-on-ones and he had come to you and said, hey, you know, my wife is pregnant and the, the pregnancy is, you know, sketchy, we don't know what's going to happen, everybody's freaked out, then, then, hey, if something's wrong, come talk to me. Hey, you need time off? You just let me know and we'll make sure it works. Now, what do you mean you need time off again? You know, come talk to me and then give me a chance to check in with you. Hey, Bob, how's your wife doing? How'd your appointment go? Give them a place where they can— because who else are they going to talk to? They probably can't talk to their family because everybody's freaked out.
Jeff Compton [01:41:10]:
They most likely don't have in this day and age a pastor, a minister, a spiritual leader.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:41:15]:
Gonna say that. Yeah. So who do they have to talk to? Well, if you've been doing your one-on-ones and you've created this, this safe place for them to come and discuss not only their hopes but their fears, I would much rather they come in and cry on my desk and be like, I don't know what's going to happen and I'm freaking out. Yeah, maybe we've got room to give them a couple days off. Maybe we even have room to give them a couple days off with a little bonus so they're not missing anything by being at home with their family. Yeah, that's what profit's for, and that's what leadership should be. Not, oh, you need time off again? What's your problem? Can't you do this on your own time? You had that guy on, the guy who—
Jeff Compton [01:41:56]:
Dave Flindel. Yeah. Uh, isn't— can't your wife take the kids in when they're sick? Yeah, Dave's a big guy. I'm surprised he didn't fold that guy right in his, you know, I'm still in it because like, but I've had, man, I've had employers that, that talk like that. And I, you know, they came up in the, in the '50s and '60s in the military and all that kind of stuff where that's just was the, the, the assumed traditional roles. I get it, I understand it, right? But life has changed, and, and I'm not even going to call it progress, but it's different now. It's different. Different.
Jeff Compton [01:42:32]:
Yeah, you know, and, and we have to respect that. Like, man, the amount of people that still get freaked out in the idea that like the man— because in Canada we can get, you can get a year of maternity leave, both people, right? That blows some people's minds, especially in my industry. They're like, you'd want to stay home for a year with your job? You're freaking right, some people would. And if they, if it's available to them, why the heck would they You know, like, I, I, as I age out, keep thinking, like, I, I'm not sure I can keep doing this for even 5 days a week. Then my coworker right now, he's 59, he's got a blood pressure condition right now. He's down to 4 days a week. But I'm sitting here with, like, you know, I'm gonna need to go see more and more doctors about more and more things going forward. And like, Tim would have had to— I'm gonna miss some time in the shop.
Jeff Compton [01:43:26]:
Yeah, it scares the heck out of me to think, how do I sit down and have a conversation with an employer, right, about some physical ailments that are happening to me at 50? And what does it mean for the future? Well, that is in that business, like, that is a scary proposition. It's not just scary from the financial situation, it's scary from what happens after, and I get healed up and I go out into the workforce again.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:43:53]:
Again.
Jeff Compton [01:43:54]:
My job will be there, right? I'm starting over again, right? Somewhere, hypothetically. That's what scares people when they, when they come to you. So when they, when you see them acting different and you don't bother to ask them why, those are just some of the fears that are in their mind that they're not sharing with you, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:44:15]:
And, you know, and I would encourage team members too, if you build that kind of an engagement, that kind of a culture within your, then maybe one of the team members comes and is like, hey boss, yeah, you know, he's got something going on. He really needs to talk to you, but he's scared. Yeah, take him to lunch, get him out of here. Something's wrong, you know. So we build that, and not, not from a part of— oh, he's a pussy, he can't get his shit together. Oops, sorry, um, I haven't dropped an F-bomb. I'm doing good. Um, But that's the level of leadership that we need to have.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:44:55]:
We need to know our team so well that if we walk out in the shop and it's not humming and there's something out of tune, that we put our fingers on it and know, hey, come here, what's going on?
Jeff Compton [01:45:07]:
Talk to me, you know, and not be weird about it. And you might not be able to fix it. That's the reality. That's the truth, too. But that person you owe it to them to at least, as one good person to another good person, because all of us I think are good people at our core. We're just sometimes we have our days. You owe them that to at least say, hey, you know. And nothing makes me laugh and frustrates me at the same time when somebody says, I don't want to know my team at that level.
Jeff Compton [01:45:42]:
Like, I don't have a whole lot of respect for people when they say that now because When I think about some of my shop owner friends, Benji Burris is mine. I'm thinking about him all the time because there's some really— I just have such love for that family. They are so invested in their people's lives and their futures and their feelings and whatever. Because Benji, I can still remember he had essentially a mentor in his shop, a much older technician. And I remember the first time I met him, he was bragging about him. And the next year when we're at a conference, Benji's telling me he had to let him go and what that did. And, you know, so essentially it's like, I know how tough it is from talking with him about to be that involved in somebody's life that's only your employee. Yeah, because to them they're not just employees, right? They're family.
Jeff Compton [01:46:38]:
And it's— it is tough, it is. But that— I honestly 100% is part and parcel to how we're going to change this industry. We have that involvement because there's so many people— let's be real, there's people vacating the dealership jobs daily right now because the culture sucks, because they're just a number. And they come out into the aftermarket and they get into these shops and they get treated the same damn way, and they get worked even harder because they're thrown at 10 different brands and 10 different problems and half the budget a lot of the time. Time. And we go, they just don't fit, they're so— they're just terrible. No, man, they're, they're coming, they're leaving for something, looking for something else, and we're not giving it to them, right? And that's where we're failing them. That's where we're failing them.
Jeff Compton [01:47:25]:
100%. Yeah, I'm sorry, Gina, and I've ran— obviously you've heard me, and I get—
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:47:32]:
but it's just, you know, I can't say it enough.
Jeff Compton [01:47:37]:
Honestly, yeah, I've lived— just can't. Yeah, yeah, we have lived this. So it's not a situation of like I'm trying to tell everybody you're doing wrong and you're doing terrible. Please don't take it like that. There's so many amazing people I've met, they're doing incredible things in this industry. Like, I, I'm— I call them my family. Yeah, but there are still so many people we need to reach if we want to get ahead of this, because the problem is staring us right in the face right now. It's the shortage.
Jeff Compton [01:48:05]:
And, and, you know, if we don't— if we just sit there and focus on the numbers, there'll be no number left, right? Because you don't— going back to it, you don't have a product to sell, right?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:48:19]:
So what's, uh— go ahead, Jean. Sorry. No, that's okay. Just to, just to tack on to that is that, you know, and, and on both sides, both from the owner's perspective and the employee's perspective, we can't paint the whole other with the same brush. Yeah. There are bad owners, there are bad technicians, but I bet that's like 0.1%. The rest are good people who have had bad experiences, and we have to let each person start fresh. We can't carry our biases into this conversation.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:48:56]:
We have to be like, you know, oh, all techs are this, or all owners are that. That's where we've got to stop having this, this conflict, because we're not adversaries. We're all trying to get to the same goal, and, but, and we've all got to be on the same team, and we've got to let the poopy heads go, and we've got to just let them fall off. Yeah. Um, and, you know, you were giving a voice to the challenges of the techs, and the first time I heard you, I— it kind of made me laugh, the jaded heart. But you're right, you know, and there's jaded owners out there, right?
Jeff Compton [01:49:33]:
And so, God, there's a ton of them, right? And, and the thing is, like, what Lucas had to teach me was that some of them— I always thought it was just malice and greed. That's all it was, malice and greed. And Lucas is like, nah, man, they just don't know what they don't know. No. Yeah, well, they don't know what they don't know. We're hiring technicians every day that unfortunately they just don't know what they don't know. So I mean, we have to extend the grace on both sides. Yes.
Jeff Compton [01:49:59]:
And the jaded thing is so funny because if people go back and listen to the first episode with Lucas before there was this podcast, I was not loving this industry. Right. I was like, I'm jaded from this, man. And we're going back to the COVID days and I was sitting in a really negative spot. The good Lord put Lucas in front of me in that method, which we'd been friends a long time before that, but it was like he took a chance on me. And like, man, the people that reach out to me every day, I literally, Gina, get a message every day from some person I have never spoken with that tells me what this platform is doing for them. And some of it is it reminds them of a lot of negative things and they're very frustrated and they're getting out or they're out and they're But there's so many other young people that it's like a guy said to me, he's like, "Because of listening to you," he said, "6 months ago, I got the confidence to go apply for a job and I now have the dream job that I never thought I would have." And he doesn't talk about money, but to say, "I have my dream job now in my career," that's—
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:51:16]:
Yeah. And if you just had one, if you put all this effort in and you just had one, then it was worth it.
Jeff Compton [01:51:24]:
Oh, but it's overwhelming sometimes. And it's not like I carry that and I respect that and I know how important it is. So I mean, the people that detract from me, the guys that are like, they hear a little 15-second clip and they don't have any perspective and you're so missing the boat. And I challenge all of you to go listen to the episodes because you're going to understand I'm not for the me versus them. I'm not. You understand me better and I understand you better, and together we become better. We become stronger. We become more powerful.
Jeff Compton [01:52:02]:
We service our customer better. We put out a better image to the people out there, and it just brings everybody up. But we have to, have to, like Lucas says, you got to seek first to understand. And, you know, I— the first time I heard your story with Lucas and David, um, or not Lucas and David, you're— I was like, this girl gets it.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:52:27]:
I don't mean girl, you know what I mean?
Jeff Compton [01:52:28]:
You could call me a girl, I'll take it. The lady— this lady gets it. And, you know, again, it's— there's some truth to the idea that she's had the boots on the floor, right? She understands, she went through but you have so much more perspective to offer than anybody else that I've seen in your realm has been able to bring. And that's why I wanted to have you on here. And, you know, people that are listening, we're going to have a few episodes coming up where it's going to be a lot of women that are going to be sharing because they're like— and it's not an intentional thing, it's just the way it's going to fall. But man, there are some women out there in the industry right now that are doing absolutely incredible things. Things that have been like too long without in this industry. And that's all I'm trying to do is just like I'm trying to highlight, you know, fantastic techs and shop owners, I'm trying to, you know, highlight everybody.
Jeff Compton [01:53:20]:
It doesn't matter. So if you get tired of, you know, we have 3 or 4 amazing women in a row and you're like, oh, I'm not going to listen to this one, you're missing out on the good stuff, guys, because it's like what she's bringing It's powerful. The minute I heard it, I'm like, this person gets me. This is, you know, she understands it, she gets it, and that's what we want. So what's, what's around the corner for you?
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:53:45]:
Are you going to any of these big shows, or— it— that's, that's definitely on my list of things to do right now. Um, I went from working for a big coaching company to a smaller coaching company. I get to spend a lot of time with my people. The clients definitely come first. Their challenges come first. Yeah, I can coach. I can coach from the numbers. I'm— I can read the numbers.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:54:11]:
I can help you get your cookbook straightened up. But I can also, you know, let's talk about your leadership style. What are the challenges? What, what's going on? I mean, I had a— I had a— one of my clients You know, big burly guy from the Midwest. One day he started telling me about his mom and he just, he just started opening up to me and there was nobody else he could talk to. Yeah. So it's not always about the numbers. In fact, most of the time it's the numbers we can fix. The numbers are easy, but the people and taking care of our teams and giving somebody a space, I can hold that space.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:54:53]:
Not every coach in this realm is equipped to hold that space. That space for someone. And that's, that's powerful to me. Um, because if, if I'm the one, just like you, if you're the one who they come to and say, hey, I have a, a big problem, and you're the, you're the person who can let— just give them a place to talk without any judgment and be like, you're going to be okay, we're going to get you the help that you need, whatever that looks like. I think that's, you know, if I can, if I have a solid book of clients and I can teach some classes, do the podcast, touch some lives, that's all I want to do. But yeah, I'd love to get to, you know, any, any of them.
Jeff Compton [01:55:41]:
There's so many people I want to introduce you to. It's not even funny. It's like You and Josh Parnell would hit it off so well. I've talked to Josh. Yeah, he's awesome. He's an amazing, amazing person. There's— it's just— and I think about, you know, and again, the people I'm thinking about, they're going to hear you, and they already have. And, you know, but like, there's, there's so much that you have to offer that, like, that they need to hear.
Jeff Compton [01:56:10]:
And I just, I can't wait to share you with, with everybody else. I think it's going to be incredible. You know, I think it's, it's You know, because it's again, like lots of us get the numbers right. But what she's brought here tonight here is a completely different level of, of coaching. You know, it's a different factor. It's a different segment of it that, you know, we haven't talked about. And, you know, maybe that's where some of the coaching groups are missing is they teach numbers only and not leadership. And then we have leadership that's like, you know, teaches leadership and culture.
Jeff Compton [01:56:49]:
But, you know, they're, they're not numbers people, right? They're culture people. You, I think, have that, that mix that's just going to be absolutely, you know, phenomenal for more people to hear. And I can't wait to share it.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:57:03]:
So how do people find you? So AutoFix— let me get this right. It's autofixsos.com is the website so they can schedule a discovery call with me or with my boss. But if they want to talk to me or both of us, it's fine. However we work that out, you know, I'm on the— I'm on socials. It's Jean Ann St. Grace, and I've been in the Changing the Industry podcast. They can send me a message or my phone number is out there. You know, I'm not hiding.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:57:39]:
You know, and hopefully what's in the pipeline, we're going to be developing some classes where you don't have to come into a coaching place to do it, but do an owner's class. You know, do, do what, find what they need and help them get it done. And just be that voice in the wilderness. You're not alone. You're not the only one. There's people out there going through the exact same thing that you are. And there's a community that can help carry you through this, and don't, don't give up on it. I, I owe this industry everything.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [01:58:10]:
Yeah. And I, and I want to give back to it. And if that's, if that's what I do, then that's what I do, and I'm happy to do it.
Jeff Compton [01:58:19]:
Well, I think, you know, and closing out, one thing I want to move forward with is I want at some point, I think we're going to have a sit-down and you and I and some people from Promotive, Lisa and Samantha maybe. And, you know, because I think like you guys, just as I'm sitting here listening to you and I'm thinking about them, I think you guys would gel so cool in a conversation and it would be really neat if we can ever sit down together at an event because like I hear so much from your passion and I hear Lisa in the background, you know, so you guys are, you guys are like peas and carrots. I want to close on this. I'm sure Tim is very proud of you, and, and I think, I think his legacy is going to live on through what you're going to be able to teach others. And, um, thank you for bringing that to us. Really do. I really appreciate that because it's, it's, you know, it's a tough thing, and I don't want to make anybody cry when we have these kind of conversations I don't, but like, I can feel your heart and I know, I know that he's proud of what you're doing, you know? And I think that that's like, there's a lesson there of resilience and there's a lesson of, you know, being prepared. And I think that that's what we need to be really going forward now is starting to have those conversations.
Jeff Compton [01:59:43]:
So everybody, thank you for listening to this. You know, I, You hear me joke, but I mean, I, I love everybody. I love all of you. And, um, you know, the people that, that don't get it and you, and you, you lash out at me in the comments, I love you too. You know, we're just like, you're gonna see eventually. And, um, you know, please everybody, you know, be good to one another. Think about what everybody is going through. Try to understand a little bit better the way they are.
Jeff Compton [02:00:16]:
And, um, and everything will get better.
JeanAnn SaintGrace [02:00:20]:
So, Jean Ann, thank you. Thank you, Jeff. Thank you for what you do. Um, your heart comes through as well. I enjoy listening to you and talking, you know. I feel like I'm back in the shop listening to my guys. So, um, and, and it's, it's awesome. So you're, you're, you were filling a space that needed to be filled, and thank you for stepping out there and filling it and And you know, my motto is love your people till it's weird and then love them some more.
Jeff Compton [02:00:47]:
All right everyone, like I said, I love you all, even you weirdos. So we'll talk to you soon. Thank you. Thank you. Hey, if you could do me a favor real quick and like, comment on, and share this episode, I'd really appreciate it. And please, most importantly, set the podcast to automatically download every Tuesday morning As always, I'd like to thank our amazing guests for their perspectives and expertise, and I hope that you'll please join us again next week on this journey of change. Thank you to my partners in the ASAR Group and to the Changing the Industry podcast. Remember what I always say: in this industry, you get what you pay for.
Jeff Compton [02:01:25]:
Here's hoping everyone finds their missing 10mm, and we'll see you all again next time.