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The only podcast covering all things Arizona State athletics! We bleed maroon and gold, and love talking about the Sun Devils no matter what sport.
Tom Hardon (00:01)
Welcome one, welcome all to another episode of Echo from the Buttes. I'm your host, Tom Harden, standing in for David Hellman. With me as always, I have Austin Bundy, Andrew Hazlett, and Iyab Dean. And we've had a busy weekend in Sun Devil Athletics, most notably the ongoing conversation. Will Coach Kenny Dillingham remain in Tempe or will he be moving elsewhere? We did receive a little bit of clarity on this front. ⁓
Coach Doenham did have a press conference during Saturday's practice where he addressed his future. And I know Aya has a lot of thoughts on that. So I'm going to kick it right to you, Aya. What are your takeaways from what Coach Doenham had to say on Saturday?
Aya Abdeen (00:48)
So even though I wasn't at the practice on Saturday.
But getting to follow what Kenny Dillingham had to say to the media amidst Andre sports rumors of pushing Dillingham to be head coach for Michigan in which they lost their previous head coach to some sort of who was arrested. So what I would have to say is that it's a positive on my end, to be honest, because Kenny Dillingham loves being
being a part of the Arizona State football program. He's grown up in Arizona. He's followed the Sun Devil football program throughout his childhood. So I just don't get why the media is pushing Dillie Ham to be the next head coach for Michigan, in which they also won a college football playoff championship just like a years ago. So Dillie Ham has expressed how...
how good it is to be home and to be so I don't think dealing have is going anywhere but I expect
I expect Graham Rossini and Michael Crow to get a deal done because of what he has done to this football program over the last few years. From 3-9 records in 2023 to their first appearance in the college football playoff, they were almost so close to pulling off of the win over Texas in the Peach Bowl, but to see how the Sun Devils continue to fight through despite injuries and even though they
lost to Arizona in the final week of the season and which they they were I'm so sorry just cut this cuts all this off so even though Arizona State lost to Arizona in the final week of the regular season and they did not participate in a big 12 championship contention still
what Delahan has been building for this program is really special. So I could see him staying at Tempe for the next few years.
Tom Hardon (02:56)
Andrew, I want to kick it over to you for your thoughts on the whole situation. it's obviously in our mind, I think it's the right decision for Coach Dillingham to stay in Tempe, setting aside allegiance for Arizona State.
Andrew Hayslett (03:14)
Yeah, I agree with that statement. think college coaching across the board nationally needs to be more loyalty based. You see Lane Kiffin with that whole dramatic stuff. see ⁓ Charles Huff as a guy who's been at three programs now in what's going to be three years. I get the guys who go from G5 jobs to Power 4.
That makes sense, but bouncing around from Power 4 to Power 4 school, going around from G5 school to different G5 school doesn't make sense to me. think at that point you just want to be loyal. Those are my thoughts. I didn't think Dillingham was ever going to leave. He's got his family here. He's at home. Why would you leave home? And it would, I think, take a lot of money.
And on a couple different fronts with NIL spending money, that being a lot higher than what it is at Arizona State and his contract being a lot higher. a little bit, that's not going to cut it. It has to be a lot because it takes a lot to uproot a guy from his home where his family is. And that's just the person he is. He wants to be at home. This is his dream job. Why would you leave it? Doesn't make
doesn't make sense to me unless there's a better opportunity, a better place where you can get more NIL to get better players to make you look more successful. I don't think Michigan has enough of a gap to do that, which I do think Michigan has more NIL money to play around with, but I don't think it's enough for Kenny Dillingham to jump ship at this point.
Aya Abdeen (05:07)
I agree.
Tom Hardon (05:07)
Austin, I want to kick this to
you. The loyalty factor with Kenny is certainly there, but do you see the reciprocating loyalty coming back from the university?
Austen Bundy (05:19)
absolutely. I mean, we only have reports that Kenny's contract was going to be enhanced. I know a lot of people were thinking there was maybe an extension coming, but the fact that the university, I mean, he signed a recent extension anyways. There was no reason to add any more term to this, but the fact that the university wanted to enhance base salary and any other kind of compensation details that were in there shows you that the Michigan interest was not just being
They weren't just rumors flying around on the internet. probably was phone. There probably were phone calls made and it probably tells you that Kenny was honest with the university. Yeah, I did receive these phone calls. I'm not going to play games with you. Like I did receive these phone calls. It is an interesting job. However, I want to be here with you. Can you make it worth my while? And the university went back and said, sure, absolutely. Like you have brought more hope and more prospect for this program than we've seen in quite a long time.
So it was 100 % warranted for the university to come back and at least make it worth his while, the fact that he wants to stay here rather than anybody playing any kind of contract negotiation games. There are still some knuckleheads out there that are saying that Kenny could still leave, especially because Michigan got the middle finger from Kalin DeBoeur at Alabama, putting out a statement earlier this afternoon that he was not going anywhere, that he had no interest in the Michigan job.
⁓ Michigan's gonna get desperate here. They may up an offer if Kenny really is a target they wanna go after, ⁓ but given Kenny's statement and what he did on camera, the emotion, and kind of letting everybody see where he stands on this, Michigan's gonna have to look elsewhere. I don't think they're gonna wanna sit here and play any of those games and potentially make enemies out of anybody and make some sort of...
⁓ ugly exit for Kenny Dillingham along the lines of Lane Kiffin ⁓ if they're truly going to pursue him. But I think the university has done everything it needed to do in the most professional manner to reward Kenny for his loyalty and reward him for everything he's done on the field in just three years.
Tom Hardon (07:32)
That's the thing too, his current contract as it stands does have that framework for added incentives, increasing his base salary. For a point of reference, his contract is fixed at five years. Board of Regents guidelines prohibit coaching contracts of more than five years. However, there is framework in place for rolling extensions that could...
turn this into essentially a 10 year contract with years getting added on year by year. The current contract was set to expire at the end of the 2029 season and with with Coach Dillingham making $5.8 million this year in base salary. He was the the number two highest paid coach in the Big 12 conference.
And really getting that, you know, getting that payday that he deserves for his performance so far, like we said, turning around a team and a program in really institutional crisis. And, that's the point that I keep coming back to when I think about it logically, as if, you know, if I was in his shoes, he's already come back to his alma mater.
coming out of the turmoil that was his predecessor, both a head coach and Graham's predecessor at athletic director. Why would he want to leave to go to a program that is arguably in a bigger mess and start this whole process over again? Yes, there's deep pockets in the NIL budget up there in Ann Arbor and they could throw. ⁓
two and a half sackfuls of cash and back the brings trucks up for perpetuity. But the X factor to me and Andrew you brought it up as well. His family is here and not just, I'm not just talking about his wife and their kid and they have one on the way as well, I believe. We're talking about his support structure in his extended family, his wife's extended family. There's a whole...
structure that is conducive to keeping that family unit functioning well with all the demands of a college head coaching position. If he were to uproot and relocate to Ann Arbor, there's no, there's really no support structure. know, granted there is
You could buy all the childcare that you need, but you're really isolating yourself on an island if you just uproot and take this job solely on the money aspect of it. So I'm sure this is all factors that Kenny is weighing behind closed doors. We're just spick waiting here and I'm giving what my gut instinct is if I was in his situation making this decision.
Thankfully, I don't have to make this decision. It's one that I would lose sleep over and I would just say, here, crowdsource this. What do I do?
Andrew Hayslett (10:29)
Tom, I've got a question for you. You said Kenny was the second highest paid coach in the Big 12. Do you remember who the top coach in the Big 12 was? Happy McGuire?
Aya Abdeen (10:30)
One minute to spend.
Tom Hardon (10:40)
I believe so.
I did not have that prepared.
Andrew Hayslett (10:49)
Sorry to put you on the spot like this.
Tom Hardon (10:52)
But Mike Gundy and Lance Leopold were leading the pack as of last year in the 7.5 to 7.75 range. And then Kenny was coming in behind them at 5.9. And that does also account for annual $100,000 increases in salary year over year.
But I feel as.
Austen Bundy (11:19)
Now here's
a question for you with the Kenny Michigan stuff. With him, I mean, if he was going to go to Michigan, obviously that changes the recruiting tactics a lot. mean, he brings a lot of different networks from the Texas and Arizona area into the Big Ten, which would be helpful. But with Michigan's branding, you also get a lot of access to the Big Ten's recruiting network, obviously, because that whole Midwest area is going to want to
He's going to be interested if the Michigan ⁓ is showing up on your high school sidelines. Now with Michigan falling apart at the seams in the wake of the Sharon Moore scandal and everything, you feel like a lot of Michigan players are going to be looking to jump ship potentially and high up on that list could be quarterback Bryce Underwood. Arizona State is in need of a quarterback potentially. Do you think Kenny Dillingham makes a swing? I'm not saying he actually gets Bryce Underwood, but do you think he actually makes a swing at him?
Tom Hardon (12:15)
I think the opportunity is there. think it's it's a hanging curve ball to throw a baseball pun in there. But I think you have to take a swing if you're if you're Kennedy among him. If you're if the interest is coming from Michigan to try and lure him, the opportunity is there to in turn try and entice their starting quarterback to come to Tempe.
Andrew Hayslett (12:35)
Yeah, I think you're going to be needing a quarterback from the portal regardless of I think I said last show of whether it's a guy who's going to be a starter and could win you a lot of games or a guy who's going to just fight for that QB one spot in the fall with Fetty and ⁓ Dyer. You're going to be bringing a quarterback might as well try to get Underwood or.
someone else with other coaches leaving. I look at ⁓ Utah, Devin Dampier is a possibility. Just kind of throw that out there with Whittingham retiring.
Tom Hardon (13:13)
quote retiring.
Andrew Hayslett (13:15)
We'll see about that.
Austen Bundy (13:17)
If Whittingham decides to go to Michigan, I feel like that backfires. Just because you send him, like you gotta send Whittingham out ⁓ into the sunset with that legacy of his. I don't know if somebody of his character would really want to be the guy after the guy at this scandal.
Tom Hardon (13:17)
Thank
I don't think anybody wants to be the guy after the guy. This is an incredibly difficult situation to come into for any college coach. Maybe Lane Kiffin is wondering if the ink has dried on his new contract and could be looking for a change of scenery already. Who knows? But I don't envy any head coach who steps into that situation at the Big House in 2026.
Aya Abdeen (14:04)
100%. I mean, like looking into how, how, how the media is pushing, it's pushing for Kenny Dillingham to replace the previous head coach for Michigan. There's just a lot to, to dig deep into. Like, yes, Dillingham has built a home and especially helped turn around the program over the last few years. Like, there was a, like, there would be a lot of recruits that
would want to come play for Kenny Dillham and especially the Sun Devils and what they've been building is really special. So I agree with the points both of you, Andrew and Austin and Tom have made, but I don't think it's worth leaving Arizona State to go take a head coaching position for Michigan in which the program is literally in a hot mess right now. So I wouldn't take the risk.
Tom Hardon (15:03)
And
let's not forget the same media that is pushing this narrative so hard is the same media that is going to be keeping any head coach that steps in there under a very fine microscope. ⁓ Tempe has the benefit of having three of the big four sports leagues here, plus the WNBA, plus you have...
Aya Abdeen (15:19)
this.
Tom Hardon (15:28)
multiple Division I programs between ASU, Arizona, and GCU. The attention is very diluted from the media. Something can make major headlines, but it can pass out of the headlines unless it is something completely earth shattering. When you're at Ann Arbor, that is the show, even though they are in close proximity to Detroit with all four major sports.
and our kind of exists in its own isolated bubble as far as the media goes. So any coach that goes in there, if you have, if you have back to back seasons with two losses carrying the expectation of not just competing for a conference championship, but competing for a college football playoff berth every single season, then the leash is going to be extremely short for whoever steps into that situation.
Aya Abdeen (16:20)
I agree. That's a period.
Austen Bundy (16:21)
also.
Let's think about it with their recruits I think is gonna be a lot of players who have experienced their first winter in Michigan who may look at Tempe in 82 degrees in the middle of December and find that a little bit more desirable to want to come down and play for Dillingham.
Tom Hardon (16:38)
I got to tell you, I was wearing t-shirts and shorts all day today. So there, there's absolutely no problem with Arizona in the winter. You don't have to shovel sunshine, shovel sunshine. It's, that's my recruiting pitch to anybody who happens to listen. Take that, take that as you will.
Aya Abdeen (16:38)
you
You
You know as
an Arizonan who used to live in the snow throughout their childhood Fun fact I used to live in Manjorda for only three years and whenever it's winter there will be like tons of snow And then when I moved back to Arizona like a decade ago It feels really nice not having to worry about the heavy snow Yes, it can be fun playing in the snow, but it's just better to have like More of a vibe when it comes to the winter. So I have to add in that as well
Well,
Tom Hardon (17:27)
I
like to look at the snow on my Instagram rules while I'm sipping something cold poolside.
Aya Abdeen (17:33)
Yes.
Andrew Hayslett (17:34)
And if you
do miss the snow, there's a two hour drive up to Flagstaff. There's skiing up there. If you really miss it so bad, can always go up there. That's something that I would imagine Dillingham pitches to recruits.
Aya Abdeen (17:49)
for sure.
Austen Bundy (17:53)
Well, isn't Camp T, Camp T is not too far where it could get snow at some point during the year, right?
Tom Hardon (17:53)
And we're here for you.
Yeah, snow does extend down to that level. It can get anywhere from light dustings to a couple inches, depending on the storm. I've even seen snow down to as low as 2,000 feet out in the superstitions.
So there's our recruiting pitch for anybody ⁓ who does happen to catch this show and is considering a move to Tempe.
Moving on from...
Andrew Hayslett (18:27)
I remember Coach Dillingham once showed an AI video of this beautiful lake with mountains and saying, yeah, this is Tempe Town Lake on his Instagram story or something like that.
Austen Bundy (18:37)
You
Tom Hardon (18:41)
He's using the Levine Beach ⁓ Chamber of Commerce marketing. Shout out to our friend of the show, Rez Devil, in the Levine Beach Chamber of Commerce.
Aya Abdeen (18:47)
What?
Tom Hardon (18:55)
But moving on from from football talk, we did have some athletics in action this weekend. ⁓ Two very exciting, very tight basketball games, ⁓ one each on the men's and women's side. Men's was in action on Saturday night in the against Santa Clara up in Las Vegas, pulling out an 82 to 79 nail biter win. I want to kick it to you as our expert.
What did you see in this game? What stood out to you?
Aya Abdeen (19:27)
So Bobby Hurley's ejection has definitely fired up the Sun Devils. So to see how they've gotten back to the game, not only by ⁓ changing the game plan, but also taking a win in a thrilling style, that's the Sun Devils way.
I'm just a what I'm more impressed is how they won, especially after Bobby Hurley Hurley got ejected. I mean, there is that technique which is don't poke the bear. So which is what a gritty win by the Sun Devils and men's basketball team. I mean, might as well have.
Tom Hardon (20:03)
Did we have a Bobby ejection yet this
season? I feel like we were due for an ejection game.
Aya Abdeen (20:09)
don't poke the bear. It looks like it might be due for one.
Tom Hardon (20:11)
Ha ha ha ha.
But it's, this team was down 55 to 38 at the half and just poured it on in the second half. We talk about it all the time, but Austin, is this team showing the right signs leading into Big 12 play?
Aya Abdeen (20:26)
Literally, that's just impressive.
Austen Bundy (20:40)
The right signs, absolutely. you're looking at their perseverance. You're looking at how they respond to ⁓ adversity. They're showing signs that we haven't seen from this team since probably the Remy Martin era. And I'm not saying they're going to go on a run like that team because I think that team was a whole lot more talented. entering big 12 play, I now have higher expectations. I now have expectations that they're going to be able to at least hang.
with everybody who is not ranked in the Big 12. I will go and do every conference game where it is not a ranked team they're going up against with an expectation that they should be at least competitive if not win those games. And I'll give them the benefit of the doubt against the ranked teams because I haven't seen enough to show that they really can compete with a top 25 team just yet. ⁓ But just to set the bar somewhere realistic.
I want to see this team go into every game where they're not playing a ranked opponent and win those games. And you will finish in a decently good spot in the Big 12 if you're able to do that. Considering I believe they're only playing what half a dozen games against ranked teams this year, at least in the Big 12. But even with a couple of those, you can pull off an upset or two if you're going to be playing the way they were playing.
⁓ in this non-conference slate. Granted, Santa Clara, you give up that big of a lead, you spot a team a 20-point or 15-point lead at a halftime, someone in the Big 12 is probably not going to cough that up as easily. And I'd like to see them be able to play how they did in the second half for a full 60 minutes. If they can do that, then there's going to be no problems.
Tom Hardon (22:32)
Well, Austin, I'll keep this question to you. I was going to kick it to Andrew, but I'll let you take the lead on this one. Next game is against number 25 ranked UCLA. Can the Sun Devils hang with the former Pac-12 foes?
Austen Bundy (22:46)
I'd like to say yes, but I feel like we're gonna see a similar first half as we did against Santa Clara. And like I just said, I don't think a team in the top 25 or even a team in the big 12 period is going to cough up that big of a lead in the second half. So I need to see the Sun Devils go into half, if they're gonna be behind, I need to see the Sun Devils go into half down single digits. And anything above that, it's...
Tom Hardon (22:48)
in
Austen Bundy (23:14)
probably going to be too difficult to come back because Mike Cronin is an all-star coach in college basketball. He knows how to coach games when he's got the lead. He knows how to coach games when he's got a deficit. I do not see the Sun Devils winning against UCLA. I would like them to stay within single digits.
Deficit if possible that will show me that they have some sort of grit some sort of ability to play with the big boys ⁓ and again, that's where I lower the bar to beating non-ranked teams if you can beat non-ranked teams, you're gonna win a majority of your games this season and That's really all you can ask of this team, especially with a Bobby Hurley who has nothing to lose at this point considering He's on his last year of his contract. He's probably not returning next year ⁓
I don't see them beating UCLA, but I'd like them to make it competitive.
Tom Hardon (24:16)
this is a UCLA team that will come into this game having lost two of their last five. Granted the most recent game was against number eight Gonzaga who the Sun Devils lost to earlier this season, but also standing out to me as a loss to California in ⁓ Berkeley on November 25th, an eight point loss. this, it could be.
It'll be interesting. That's just going to be my evaluation on this. Andrew, I want to kick this one to you. The Sun Devils received two votes in the most recent AP poll. How close do you think they can get with this comeback win against Santa Clara? It's certainly not enough to climb into the top 25, but do you think there's going to be a little more respect coming to the Sun Devils from the AP voters?
Andrew Hayslett (25:09)
Yeah, I think there will be just because wins are wins. ⁓ I think you'll see that number substantially increase, climb up those teams that received votes. A good portion, I would say.
Tom Hardon (25:28)
As we said, coming up on December 17th is that next matchup at Polypavilion in Los Angeles. It'll be an interesting road for the Sun Devils before Big 12 play starts. Moving on to women's basketball. Just wrapped up today, an overtime thriller against Oregon State up on the road. 55-53 final with the
game winning shot with 16 seconds to play. Aya, go ahead and take it away. Your biggest takeaway is from tonight's or this afternoon's win, I should say.
Aya Abdeen (26:07)
So basically, last year, POA, one of the transfers they acquired through the portal has been a major difference maker at the point card position.
I mean, she drilled a huge three pointer to hand elite to the Sun Devils and then she basically contributed on a defensive end. Like she possibly drew the charge leading to a Sun Devils win. Last year at POA, she has been unbelievable on both ends of the court. mean, Molly Meloardo?
what she's been cooking, like what she's been doing as head coach is really special as well. Like transferring from Grand Canyon to Arizona State, that's definitely money making decision here. Like that's huge. And to see Heliza Carrera and Makenna Brackens contributing as front court duo, I mean, this is what stands out to me about the Sun Devils women's basketball team. They keep on pushing, they keep on fighting, they keep on
on defending like this Sun Devils team never gives up and they also had 13 steals in the win like guys this is unbelievable ⁓
Like I could see the Sun Devils ⁓ participating in the NCAA tournament if they continue to play like this and this might be one of their best seasons in program history. Not to mention that they have surpassed last season's total wins. They had 10 wins. Now they have 12 and zero losses. Like wow, what a big turnaround by this Sun Devils women's basketball team. Not to mention that they're going to start the conference play against Colorado.
on Sunday. It's going to be really interesting to see how it all translates into Hawkins play for sure.
Tom Hardon (28:05)
Austin, I'm looking up and down the AP poll on the women's side and I do not see Arizona State listed anywhere receiving votes in the top 25. What does Molly Miller have to do to be able to get some respect for these women?
Austen Bundy (28:24)
wouldn't necessarily put anything on Molly Miller's shoulders here. I think it just comes down to the type of scheduling that the program did ahead of Molly Miller getting here to Tempe. Yes, they're 12 and 0, but when you look at the quality of their schedule, UNLV is probably one of their best wins, and that's about it. So I think the AP voters are looking at this and saying, congratulations, you're 12 and 0, but also what else have you done to really like
prove that you are a top program in the nation here. ⁓ think once you get to Big 12, let's say the Sun Devils are undefeated going into conference play. That's when I think the AP will start to pay attention because the moment they beat a single Big 12 team, whoever that first opponent is on their schedule, that's the moment I think the AP voters are finally like, okay, now we can start considering and voting and ranking you.
right around the bottom of that list there because now you're starting to beat higher quality opponents. Now you're starting to prove that this is legit. ⁓ Obviously, we're Sun Devil fans here, so we already believe it's legit. ⁓ But when you're an AP voter and you're anybody else who's looking from the outside in, there's always skepticism around Tempe and any of Arizona State's programs. Nobody typically believes that ASU has the quality that they have.
until they have surprised everybody and beaten a program or a team that would have been an unexpected ⁓ loss on their resume. whereas the rest of us are sitting here, like, we tried to tell you so, we tried to tell you that we were coming. ⁓ I think give it some time. Even if the Sun Devils do lose a game or two before they go to conference play, I think once we get to February and...
If they get if they continue to be consistent in winning and consistent in beating ⁓ high quality teams, the moment they beat a ranked team is the moment they're to enter the poll. I think if they're not in the poll by the time they start conference play, the moment they beat a ranked team is the moment they enter the top 25.
Tom Hardon (30:32)
Andrew, we're looking at the schedule and there is only one ⁓ non-conference game remaining coming up on Tuesday at Gonzaga before opening conference play at home against Colorado. ⁓ Does Gonzaga give that high quality ⁓ of a chance to be that last prove yourself matchup before conference play or what do you see in that upcoming slate?
Andrew Hayslett (30:59)
Yeah, looking at Gonzaga, ⁓ obviously another group of five school.
So with that, you can only prove so much from playing Group of Five Schools. And just playing another one probably isn't going to move the needle for AP voters. Just a Group of Five Schools don't. And if the needle hasn't been moved by now, which it hasn't, this isn't going to change things for the AP voters, at least in the short term.
Aya Abdeen (31:36)
I agree.
Tom Hardon (31:38)
⁓ We'll still keep waving the flag for women's basketball to get that visibility and get their recognition. Again, Gonzaga on Tuesday on the road before hosting Colorado to open Big 12 play on Sunday.
the men of the men of hockey move went up to Duluth for. For a very important road road series and NCHC play did come away with a split. Losing 3 to 1 on Friday night before, in my opinion, having the most complete game of the season with a win on Saturday, winning 6 3 behind a hat trick by Bennett Shimmock. Andrew.
I'll go to you to lead this one off. What ⁓ did this weekend show you from the team and ⁓ what pieces are in place to go into this holiday break before coming back against Dartmouth right after Christmas?
Andrew Hayslett (32:47)
It showed me a lot ⁓ from this series. The fact that they were able to win on Saturday after getting just bombarded by the Plant-Plant-Shogubay line on Friday line just shows this team can adjust and that's what they've been doing all year. That's four straight Saturdays in a row where the Sun Devils have won. Their last Saturday loss, I believe, was the Colorado College series.
And that was the series, the game that they won in overtime on the Friday, the shootout, or rather on the Friday before dropping the Colorado college game. then that beating no Dak in their place after losing on Friday, then coming home, beating Denver after losing Friday. And then last week before this week, defeat defeating Ohio state twice and over time. ⁓ and then.
That just shows that they can adjust well. That's what I've been seeing, which...
Is a concern if we're talking about this still down the road in February, March when it's tournament time and you play are only playing teams once before when in the single elimination games where you can't adjust on Saturday because you've you're going home if you lose the Friday or the first game or whatever. So that's something I'm not.
concerned about yet, but could be concerned if this keeps going forward. ⁓ You said Saturday's game was the most complete game in your opinion, Tom. I would agree, but there's still a few things I want to take away from Saturday's game. Not much scoring outside the top line from the offense. In particular, yes, defenseman Justin Kipke got his first career NCAA goal, which is
much needed as the defense only has two goals this season. That's something that you'd like to have a little bit higher at this point. But with that, that's something I want to see. And then I just don't think Sam Urban's going to be the guy going forward. Yes, he did get the win, but he did. I feel like Hasley's performance was still better of the two nights at the end of the day.
They're both very good. Samuel Urban is very promising. He will be the guy in a few years. He just isn't there yet and that's not a concern unless Powers just plays him game in, game in and the results don't change. He is good, but I just don't think he is good enough at this point in time. Which obviously he can get better, but yeah.
The final point for me, just the top line, I feel like this might be a ⁓ whether you win or lose based on how good they do because we saw only three shots from that line Friday night, all coming from Potter and lost versus the five goals from that line on Saturday and they won. I've noticed in...
and last seven games where ASU is 5-2. Colin Potter scored a goal in the five games they won, hasn't scored in the two that they lost. Just an interesting note there. I feel like ASU might be too reliant on the top line eventually.
Tom Hardon (36:24)
that is something that Coach Powers has been very, very vocal about in post game comments about needing to diversify the scoring and get a lot more offensive help top down through all four lines. I do want to turn back to the goaltending though. Austin, we talked about how
Samuel Urbann got the start on Saturday after Connor Hasley started the previous four straight games. And do you think that was the right move to give Urbann the net on Saturday and try and boost his confidence a little bit, his competitive edge back?
Austen Bundy (37:05)
Well, had they lost, I think a lot of people would be telling you it's the wrong, it was the wrong move. But since they won, you're going to say it's the right move, obviously. ⁓ But when you go and look at the numbers, mean, Urban gives up three goals, whereas Hasley gives up one. Like Andrew said, that's a better performance over like just, just from an objective point of view. ⁓ However, the fact that his teammates were able to give him some run support every time there was a mistake.
should boost his confidence enough to show that hey as much as you gave up three goals you gave up more goals than the guy the previous night ⁓
the the you're not going to impact his I don't if I want even want to call it confidence I don't think you want to imp it's going to impact just his ability to take the ice and give you everything that you need ⁓ and I'm realizing now I misspoke they lost on Friday night so they both gave up three goals has they give up three and so did urban but ⁓
Now I think it was the right choice to split just because you want to know what you have. Let's say there's an injury and has to goes down. You want to know what you have in the backup. You don't want to leave them there sitting on sitting on the bench for too many games during the season. And then he's having to get his sea legs under him. And then you're losing critical games down a potentially critical stretch of the season. So I would like to see more. I'd like to see more of this of this splitting of the net because
Especially if our bonds going to prove that he can win big games like this if he can give you performances like he did ⁓ against Duluth Why not give him the net a little bit more often? mean, I don't think you're you're saying there's any indictment on Hasley's play and by by hooking him ⁓ for some of those games, but when it comes to the games that are gonna ⁓
get you into conference tournament time or potentially get you into NCAA tournament time, you're going to turn to Hasley. You're going to turn to your number one. That's just 101 in hockey. But I would, at this point in the season, you want Urbán to be the one playing and proving that he can be the serviceable backup and he can be the guy if he needs to be called upon.
Andrew Hayslett (39:29)
I will say coming off of his most recent performance against Denver, he did need a game to get going. But if it were me, which is coming from a guy who hasn't coached hockey and doesn't know what he's doing, so take this with a grain of salt, ⁓ I'd probably start urban one every three or four games.
right now at this point, probably one every four, just because I do want to keep him fresh like Austin said, he did make great points, but I do want it to be firm that Asley is still the guy.
Tom Hardon (40:08)
Yeah, I'm in agreement there. know, I don't think.
Irban is quite there at the level to where he can, where Coach Powers can go to him and say, Friday night's yours the rest of the season, like what Coach Pat Verschweiler did at Western Michigan with Cameron Rowe and Hampton Swakinski splitting the series the back half of season as they went to the national championship. ⁓ Hasley is still, like I said, is still the clear number one at this point, but you do want to see Irban develop and be comfortable to the point where
You know, he sees his future in Tempe just as much as Coach Powers sees him as the goaltender of the future. And just to take a look at some of the stats for both goaltenders, Aslee is seventh in the conference with a 2.79 goals against average. Urban ranked 12th of qualifying goalies with 3.67. Both goalies are...
one and two in saves per game. However, that's a bit of a misleading statistic. That's more of a reflection on just how many opportunities the opposition is getting on getting on Arizona State, but Urbán is making
just over 31 saves per game while Hasley is making just under 29 saves per game. And then to the save percentage, Hasley ranked fifth in the conference with a 919 save percentage. Urbán right close behind him at seventh with a 905 save percentage. the groundwork is there for a really solid goaltending room. I think that there's certainly a lot of opportunity for development with ⁓ Urbán, but he does have the... ⁓
And he's got the poise to be able to develop into a shutdown goaltender ⁓ on any given night and be able to be that comfortable number one in the future. I do want to take a look at some of the... Go ahead, Andrew.
Andrew Hayslett (42:03)
I was
gonna go what you said there at the end with the shots against or saves is that
Goes back to the defense which we've talked about ad nauseam. It feels like this season of guys that you don't have ⁓ This year Noah back time are just an Ethan shmaggy. Just those those three making a difference Out there on the ice each and every night versus guys that you are put into those roles that ⁓
are solid second pair third pair guys but you're forcing them to play number one and I think it's just not necessarily overworking them but ⁓ they're in a role that they don't quite are ready for just yet and I think that's why we see some such a high volume of shots ⁓
at this point against both goalies because both goalies I think in the real telling stat that shows how good you are is save percentage and they're what five and seventh fifth and seventh Tom? So it shows yeah they're good goalies they're just take they're getting way too many shots against them at this point in the season.
Tom Hardon (43:14)
Yep, and seventh in the conference.
We would be a little bit remiss you bring up time. Murchison. We did not address this on Friday show, but former Sunday will time. Murchison made his NHL debut with the Philadelphia Flyers this past Tuesday. He's played two games in his NHL career. Unfortunately did not. He's still with the Flyers but did not dress for tonight's game, but.
Ty did become the fourth Sun Devil to make his debut in the NHL. So very, ⁓ very well earned congratulations for Ty and continuing the tradition that is Sun Devil hockey. Hopefully many more to follow in his path. I do want to take a look at ⁓
at the rankings and particularly the NPI. And right now after the action this weekend with the split at Duluth and ⁓
with one of the game in action, notably Arizona State's next opponent in Dartmouth falling earlier today in overtime ⁓ at New Hampshire by a final score of three to two. Arizona State is currently sitting at number 35 in the NPA rankings. Now on doubles in detail this week, as I alluded to on last show, there will be a new column starting this week.
Talking about the MPI, what that means for Arizona State and giving just a broad overlook of what the current tournament would be based on the standings in the moment. But the MPI is replacing the pairwise formula and in broad strokes, the MPI factors in.
and factors in your own record at a 25 % weight and your opponent's record or your strength of schedule at a 75 % weight. Gone are the days where the pairwise was factoring in opponent's opponent's records so you don't have to worry about a team like...
You know, a team like Quinnipiac getting carried up the sandings because they beat Cornell who beat Boston College, and that win is carrying them up the rankings. It's more purely based on your own results and the direct results of your opponents. There are various waiting factors for winning games in regulation, home and road.
weighting calculations, but getting the split on the road is exactly what the Sun Devils needed to do and that was a rewarding factor for for Arizona State in the rankings. I believe going into this weekend Arizona State was at
was at 38, slipped down to 39 with the loss on Friday, but bounced back up to 35 with the road win in regulation on Saturday. We will have a much more clearer picture as the season goes on, but it's always interesting to take a peek at where the doubles do sit. Minnesota Duluth, after the loss on Saturday, slipped down from fourth in the NPI to seventh.
following out of what would be one of the top four regional hosts for the for this upcoming tournament and
Andrew Hayslett (46:34)
Let's go
off on that, Tom. I want to bring up strength of record. The USCHO ⁓ site has
each team's are scheduled this season. Sun Devils ranked second hardest behind the regular Minnesota, not Minnesota Dillews, but the golden gophers of the Big Ten. Just shows they've had a tough schedule so far, and I think we all knew this coming in with the non-conference being three Big Ten schools and a good Augustana school, and then the ⁓ NCHC being, in my opinion at least, the best conference in hockey.
Tom Hardon (47:16)
And you know Dartmouth even though they did just lose their first game this season They are still a dangerous opponent looking at their strength the strength of schedule at 59th that is a product of playing in a largely weak ECAC, but it's there's still not an opponent to take lightly and they Arizona State will be in for a tough challenge going up to going up to Hanover right after the Christmas holiday those games on December 27th and 28th
Alright guys, any final thoughts that you want to add in to wrap up another episode?
That's it folks. For Austin Bundy, for Iyabdin, for Andrew Hazlett, I am Tom Harden signing off and as always, give them hell devils.