Emilie Toups: How To Transition To A Non-Toxic Lifestyle & Discover Natural Living (Part 1) | MMP #340

Emilie Toups is the founder of Toups & Co Organics, a brand dedicated to non-toxic, natural lifestyle solutions. Her journey began with personal and family health challenges, leading her to embrace and promote holistic wellness. After facing thyroid issues and her daughter's eczema, Emilie and her husband improved their health by eliminating processed foods, environmental toxins, and adopting natural remedies. This transformation inspired the creation of Toups & Co Organics, highlighting the importance of diet, natural living, personal autonomy, and perseverance in achieving health. Emilie is also a proud homesteader. 

Use code MEATMAFIA for a 15% discount at Toups & Co Organics. 

Key topics discussed:

- Transition to a non-toxic lifestyle after personal health issues.

- Impact of whole, unprocessed foods on health.

- Benefits of raw dairy and owning a dairy cow for health and sustainability.

- Emotional and mental health improvements tied to natural living.

- The role of family and community support in maintaining a healthy lifestyle.

Timestamps:

(00:09) Founders Pioneering Non-Toxic Lifestyle
(09:15) Impact of Health Choices on Community
(16:00) Raising Dairy Cows for a Decade
(21:11) Empowering Kids Through Homeschooling
(30:30) Nurturing Entrepreneurial Mindset in Children


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Creators & Guests

Host

Brett Ender 🥩⚡️

The food system is corrupt and trying to poison us... I will teach you how to fight back. Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod 🥩

Host

Harry Gray 🥩⚡️

Leading the Red Meat Renaissance 🥩 ⚡️| Co-Host of @themeatmafiapod

What is The Meat Mafia Podcast?

The Meat Mafia Podcast is hosted by @MeatMafiaBrett and @MeatMafiaHarry. We explore how we can each live a fulfilled, meaningful life. Through our conversations, we integrate our core pillars of health, wealth, and faith.

Health begins with proper nutrition. We believe in eating real foods, buying locally, cooking your own meals, and then focusing on how optimizing physical and mental health can transform lives.

Wealth extends beyond finances. We dive into entrepreneurship, creativity, and self-sufficiency, sharing stories from inspiring founders to help you unlock fulfillment and growth.

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We also highlight stories from those challenging the current food and healthcare systems, asking: how can we become truly healthy again?

Join us as we pursue fulfillment, tackle health challenges, and create lasting change.

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Toups p1
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[00:00:00] Emily, welcome to the meat mafia podcast. This has been a long time in the making. We've missed you a few times at the force of nature conference, but excited to have you on the show. I'm glad to be here. Thanks so much. Yeah. Harry and I were particularly excited for this conversation. We're, we're just, um, we love talking to founders that are really trying to pioneer the health and wellness space and what you're doing at tubes and co is incredible.

I think we probably found out about you around two years ago and I've just seen the explosive growth of your brand. And I feel like what you're doing at tubes and co is you're really pioneering this non toxic lifestyle. And I think the other really cool thing about your brand is you have this amazing founder story where you kind of, it's amazing how you can take a problem and then it ends up being like the ultimate blessing when you look back.

Um, so I would love to just kick things off just to learning a little bit more about you and your backstory and kind of just the origins and the roots of, uh, Tubes Co. That would be amazing. Uh, well, thanks. And you know, our story is, it was the catalyst [00:01:00] to our business for sure. You know, when you have, um, like a pain point, I was dealing with thyroid issues.

My daughter had eczema and my husband and I were living a very standard American life. We, um, didn't question, you know, our food and we just kind of, my mom was a little healthier. We thought we ate healthier. We actually truly believe that. And so we look back and It's laughable. You know, it's kind of funny now, but so many people don't really know the basics.

And I am, and I can resonate with that because I absolutely had no idea. And so I was taking some thyroid medication, was tired, had had two children. My oldest had really severe eczema. And my husband was working really long hours. We, you know, kind of live between not eating that great and having, you know, just a lot of stress.

And we both sat down one night and watched this food documentary on Netflix. We were just, you know, we had some time and we decided to watch [00:02:00] it. We definitely started, um, kind of already looking into some natural stuff, but didn't know a whole lot. And, uh, you know, we took a, and I say this on all the podcasts, but it's so true.

We took a black garbage bag and really threw away everything in our pantry and our fridge. And we're, you know, kind of cold Turkey we're like, we're, we're going to make a change like from today on, we're, we're never looking back. And so I, um, you know, started to wean off of the thyroid medication that I was taking.

We were feeling a little bit better, but. Around, I guess, uh, 2013 ish there, uh, the market law, there was no more armor thyroid to be purchased. And it was like, um, it's a pig hormone and they're using it in the place of, um, like a synthetic or centroid for thyroid medication. And I couldn't get it anymore.

And so a lot of patients were going on to Synthroid and I knew I didn't want the synthetic. So I was just like, I'm not going to take it [00:03:00] anymore. I'm done. Um, I took the last one and he's like, well, what are you going to do? I was like, I don't know. I guess we're going to see. But at the same time, you know, we were making a lot of dietary changes and we had purchased this farm.

We had bought this milk cow and I had introduced raw dairy and we were eating, um, You know, just the basics. We didn't know all the words. We didn't know what paleo or keto or carnivore. We didn't know anything. We just knew that anything packaged, um, we weren't purchasing. So we were just buying vegetables, fruit and meat.

And that was it. And I saw so much change in my health that I've never, I've never taken thyroid medication again. And that's not to say that I felt treatment. Bye. Bye. Better immediately. It was definitely, you know, a work in progress, but so many facets went into that and it wasn't just one thing. It was living on this farm and being in the sunlight and being exposed to the elements and being outside, uh, which was different than living in the subdivision and being inside all the time, [00:04:00] change in diet and change in stress, you know, being outside and, um, believing that I could heal was just.

All of those facets together was, you know, just such a big part of it. player in my healing. My husband also suffered with debilitating migraines and he just saw so much improvement. And you know, he's an army veteran and he was exposed to a lot of like chemicals during that time that he was in the military a lot.

Of vaccinations that normal civilians don't get and then, you know, some things over in Iraq. Um, I can't remember the chemicals, but different neurological things. And I know that that all contributed to these just debilitating migraines. And so that his health was just a huge part of both of us saying, like, we're tired of it.

We're moving on to something new, we're definitely going to make a change. And, you know, our, our lives have just never gone, they've changed and never gone back. And it's been such an [00:05:00] incredible blessing to just stumble upon the information. Because honestly, we, we didn't have, we didn't seek out one special source.

We just figured we'd get back to the basics and learn as we go. And that's kind of what we did. I mean, I think so many people struggle to make the decision to make a change. And I would love to hear more just about kind of like the emotional aspect of making that decision and that commitment, because it sounds like you guys were just all in, and I think a lot of times that's what it takes, but I'd love to hear from your perspective, how it was helpful to have your husband on board.

And just that commitment that you guys made, because clearly it's something that's changed your guys lives. I mean, I could not have done it if we weren't in agreement and I definitely like if he was bringing junk into the house and I'm trying to eat healthy. I mean, that is incredibly difficult. I can't imagine having to try to work on my health while I [00:06:00] had a partner who was bringing in what I, you know, what I wasn't eating.

So, you know, we just made the decision together that like, this is what we want to do. It's that seemed kind of crazy at the time. And. Because we didn't have a whole lot of guidance and we didn't know we did all the things we went. We, you know, as we learned, we just continued to grow. So we did juicing and then we changed to, you know, paleo.

And then my husband really thrives on a more like ketogenic diet. And, um, so he's doing, he's doing that and he's thriving. We just adapted as we were more in tune to our bodies. And I think that it takes time to be in tune to what your body wants or needs when you never, it was never a second thought to before.

And I believe that it takes years to get to the point where you can just. Um, what your body's needing, craving, you know, we went on a supplement a year or two where we were like doing all these supplements and taking all these things and then we were like, okay, you know, maybe [00:07:00] we can do it more food based and then just real finding a balance between all the noise and the natural health space is just a learning product, you know, so it's a learning, um, you know, journey for each person and each person's going to be completely different.

And so, um, You know, we, I tell our story, but I like everyone to know that your story is your own and everyone is going to kind of find what works for them. He can eat way less carved than I can. And, you know, I'm still nursing a baby and I'm eating sweet potatoes and regular white potatoes and things that he won't touch, but we just kind of find a balance in what feels best for us.

But definitely the decision for us to do it together, I think was just really key in our success. Yeah, it's an amazing story. And then I feel like it sounds like you both kind of almost fell in love with that healing process where you realize like, look, everyone has a different timeline. I don't know how long this is going to take, but I'm just going to continue to [00:08:00] iterate, make improvements.

Tinker with these different macronutrients and just trust that like over time. God has really provided me with this like amazing vehicle to heal myself. And there's kind of two main things I take from your story. Number one, I love the commitment of you and your husband, just getting those trash bags out and just throwing all the process crap in there.

Because it's, it's so interesting how when people make changes, there's this like reluctance to throw out these ultra processed foods. And I'm thinking to myself, are you really going to let a 3 box of seed oil laced Cheetos hold you back from achieving your goals. So like that line in the sand is number one and then number two, that trust that you had to go off that thyroid medication, which is really contrary to what your doctors are telling you.

Um, Harry and I've talked a lot about this when I was healing from ulcerative colitis. I made the decision to tell my doctor, I'm getting off these drugs. I'm getting off this medication because I'm healing on my own. And I don't think I need these things. And my doctor was nervous about it, but I just pushed the issue.

And now I'm in [00:09:00] the best health of my life. But if I had listened to Western medicine, I would still be on those super expensive drugs. And I'm sure that you resonate with that as well. And look at where your health is now. For sure. And it can seem really scary to think that, you know, better than what your doctor saying.

And they're like, well, let's move you on a synthroid. We'll start with a low dose. And at that point we were already experiencing some, you know, better health and even mental health, emotional health. Like it all was kind of, it's all tied together so closely that I don't think. 6 months, a year before that, I maybe would have had the courage or the tenacity to be like, no, I'm not going to take them anymore.

But I had gotten to that place in my life. I don't need that. And, you know, whatever happens happens, I'll deal with it when it comes and obviously, I never needed to go back on them. So that's amazing. Have you seen any of your friends take notice of the actions that you guys took and the success that you guys had and kind of follow [00:10:00] suit?

Yeah. You know, I am the oldest of nine kids and so I have five sisters. I'm very, very close with them and we all lived that standard American life lifestyle. And so Trent and I, we had moved, moved away from Louisiana and that's where I'm from. And so we were kind of doing this, not super close with them.

We had just kind of moved and I don't know, new, new location and new lifestyle all in one is kind of what we did. And. As we saw so, you know, just amazing changes, we would talk about it and I never was really pushy about it with anyone else, but they'd be like, Oh, Emily and Trent, you know, they're crazy.

They, they don't, you know, they don't eat this anymore. They got, I know I would just bring my own food if I need it. I never imposed it on anybody else or expected anyone to change anything about themselves. If I knew that I wasn't going to be able to eat something somewhere, I just brought my own and, and just not made a big deal about it at all.

Uh, but those changes have made [00:11:00] It's such a ripple effect through my family. And I'm just, I'm so thankful one, that the Lord brought us on this path, but two, that I've seen my entire family changed their lives and slowly come on this path as well. And so, you know, my sisters, they're. Um, my sisters, I have kids are easily 7, 8, 10, 11 years younger than me.

And they're, you know, breastfeeding their babies. They're having home births. They're eating very clean and we all are, you know, just a little bit different in what our health philosophies are, but they just by watching and talking and just experimenting and. Listening to the journey of us raising our Children this way were that was just enough when I never had to convince them.

They just saw it and then began to think of it as normal. And then when they had their families, they are raising them in the same principles, which is amazing. Like I could [00:12:00] almost cry happy tears to see them raising their kids, and they're so vibrant and so healthy and to know that if we wouldn't have made this change, would they be the same?

Maybe, maybe not, but it feels, you know, satisfying to become a part of that. Yeah, and I think you touch on a really important point about health in general, because we have gotten asked before, you know, like the people that don't fully understand what we're talking about, they'll be like, you seem so neurotic.

Why do you not eat these foods? Why do you just focus on these foods? And what we talk about is, Look, both Harry and myself, we wouldn't be the men that we are right now. If we didn't make these very specific changes. Um, you know, you talked about the, the improvements in, in your mood and anxiety. And I, I, sometimes I walk the inner aisle of the grocery store.

And I think about this quote that, um, our buddy say Dean said, where he said, how much anxiety and depression is missed. uh, mischaracterized as a sugar addiction. And so I think about you with the amazing business you've built, being a great wife, [00:13:00] having four kids, you getting your health in order has allowed all these amazing ripple effects like you're talking about.

And now it's not just spreading to your children and your husband and spreading to your friends, your customers, getting your metabolic health and like laying this amazing foundation. I think it gives you this capacity to, to achieve so much more. And you're like the perfect example of that, of what you're doing at tubes and co as well.

Yeah, I appreciate that. And definitely like just the things that come with being unhealthy, the tiredness, the brain fog, and so much like just emotional, mental, not having the drive or the tenacity to do things like, All of that and health is so multifaceted that when people think of symptoms, they don't always think of emotional or mental symptoms as part of, you know, how they're feeling.

They only want to think about the physical symptoms, but it's so all integrated. And, you know, I just think that you can have such a clear vision and be such a [00:14:00] better version of yourself when your metabolic health is in check.

One of the things that Brett and I talk a bunch about is just the power of community in general and like the osmosis that happens when you have, like, it sounds like you and your husband were kind of the catalyst for seeing change happen in your family, but just having other people around you who are.

At least trying to make those incremental changes at the same time. It can be such a powerful experience. Um, and, and one of the biggest benefits of that is like, then your life, as people start to make progress in the same direction, becomes so effortless. Like you see the people around you becoming healthier.

living more vibrant lives. And it's, it's truly this, um, this gateway to seeing not only your own health improve, but everyone who's very close in proximity to you. So it's just such a powerful testimony of what happens when one person makes a powerful decision and it has that ripple effect. Yeah, for sure.[00:15:00]

I would love to get your perspective on how it's been, um, owning a dairy cow. And part of the reason why I'm asking you that is we have, uh, a couple of really good friends, the Anne and Weldon Warren, they run a regenerative ranch in Lubbock, Texas called Holy Cow Beef. And they were, they've been trying to convince Harry and I to start off by getting a dairy cow.

And he had a bunch of amazing reasons why he recommended that. I mean, number one, Harry probably drinks a gallon of raw milk a day, so it would pay for itself pretty quickly. But I'm just curious, you know, how did you go about doing that? How has that process been? Because I think a lot of people that are getting into this non toxic space, there's this concept of Maybe homesteading a little bit, or just starting to actually own that part of the supply chain when it comes to their food, that's really exciting for a lot of people.

And I think that's such an interesting thing that you kind of started with the dairy cow while you were getting all these other things in order and context of your health. So, you know, actually before I started at tubes and co, I was a homestead blogger and my homestead [00:16:00] blog does not exist. It doesn't exist on the internet anymore.

So don't go look it up. Uh, but I had really, Plugged myself into the homestead community. 'cause I wanted to know everything that there was about growing your own food and raising your own animals and all the things. And, um, I I, it's a funny story and I always tell it, is that before we closed on our house, before we signed those papers, I had a deposit down on a dairy cow because I knew that we had the, you know, the place and the land for it.

And, um, my husband thinks, you know, that is a funny story. And it, and at the time he was like, you did what you, you. You already put a deposit on a dairy cow. And I was like, yes, we're going to close in a month. And I can't, and the second we close, we're going to pick her up. And it's been, it's such an amazing, um, part of, you know, you'll hear Homestead bloggers say that their dairy cow is the matriarch of their farm.

And it is because they're so integral to the other parts of the farm. And there's so many ways to use the milk [00:17:00] and. The rhythm of getting up really early in the morning and going down to the barn and resting your head on your cow and milk in the cow is just, you know, it's almost like my church in the morning.

You know, you can go and just be away from all the noise and. Out in nature and my husband and I, we both milk and he's probably doing not probably he's doing most of the milking now, but in the beginning, it was just me and he worked out of town and it was part. I really, truly believe as part of my healing is going out to the barn every day and taking care of this animal and learning everything that there is about animal husbandry, because to do it right.

You have to, you know, know all the parts, but she was providing organic raw milk for me, for my children, skim milk for our pigs and our, and our chickens. And I'm, I'm culturing the milk to be acidic and pouring it on our blueberries. And they were just like, so many, this, [00:18:00] the cow gives so much to the farm.

And I mean, I've owned cows now for 10 years and. I, every time I get really stressed or we're in a season of life that seems really busy, we're like, well, maybe we just, just buy our raw milk. We can just, you know, get rid of our dairy cow. And now our kids are like, no, no, we'll milk the cow. And so, um, I have, uh, almost 13 and 11 year old now, and they're almost to the part, the point where they can do it.

But, um, yeah, It's just been a really awesome journey of ours to just buy the dairy cow and do the thing. And I think people's biggest hesitation is like, Oh, I can't do this and I can't travel. And I can't, you know, I've got to be there every day for this cow. And we just kind of make the cow work into our lives.

And. It whether that's leaving, you know, we do calf sharing, which is leaving the calf on. And so now our calf is big enough where he could drink all the milk. And if we didn't want to milk, we just wouldn't separate them [00:19:00] at night and leave them together in the next day or the dry period. We just plan it out to be in the busiest travel season for us.

And so the cows dry and it's easy to get someone just to go and take care of the farm, feed them. And not have to milk and so it's, it's just, we've made it work into our lives over the last 10 years. So now it just feels like part of living is like we have cows and we have to take care of them. We know what we have to do.

Um, and we, any decisions that we make, we just kind of work it around our schedule of having to maintain the farm at the same time. Could you imagine raising your kids without having the animals around and the lessons that come from having that close connection with nature? Absolutely not. It's so important.

It's so important. It's important to them. Now, uh, they are strictly in charge of feeding all of the animals and, and cleaning their water troughs and providing them with fresh water. And so my husband and I, now we can just kind of walk out and make sure that it's being done. [00:20:00] Um, but it is 100 percent their responsibility.

They pick eggs, they feed, they do water, and it gives them such a purpose. And our kids are homeschooled, so they're home all day and they can do it, but giving them that purpose and giving them, um, something that's they're in charge of gives them a lot of confidence. Um, and I honestly believe that it just makes them have more joy.

They're happier. They're more aware, well rounded, and they feel like they're contributing to the family, You know, it really does bring kids joy to feel like they are part of what makes our family go around. Yeah, I can only imagine how many valuable learnings come from that too, right? You talk about you and Trent watching that documentary on Netflix.

And I think about, you know, Harry and myself having our own awakening about five years ago. And you imagine how much better you would be at this point if you knew a lot of these principles about food. And I mean, that is the ultimate form of sovereignty of being able to actually [00:21:00] get your own raw milk, be able to like harvest these chickens and get the eggs and teach your kids those principles.

Being able to really like embed those really important principles into their mind at such a young age. I always just get excited thinking about what that generation is going to be like when they get older. Um, having these principles and sometimes we'll go to these really interesting conferences all around this like food sovereignty concept and a lot of parents will bring their young children and Harry and I are always amazed at just.

How well behaved and well spoken these kids are at a really young age. And then I'll go back to the Northeast where I'm from, where a lot of kids that, you know, aren't homeschooled eating processed foods, like it seems like there's a night and day difference between that. Yeah, it teaches kids a lot of empathy as well, because they have a lot of empathy for the animals.

And I've, what I've witnessed as I, my kids are getting older is to see them have empathy for other children. And I think that is just missing in our culture is having empathy. And it comes with being solely [00:22:00] responsible for something and its health and its wellbeing all day, every day. And, you know, I'll see other kids that are maybe having a hard time or having a disagreement with one of my kids.

And It's, it's just, it amazes me every time they, and I'm not saying that they're perfect. You know, my own kids get into disagreements with each other, but to see them see another kid and he's like, um, well, you know, they, it's so hard. They have to go to school all day and they wake up really early and they have to eat the junk food that they have there at school.

And I'm like, that's right, actually. So yeah, let's give them a little grace and let's be kind of empathetic towards their position because they, they're able to see and recognize it. On their own and really if I don't do anything if I never made if I never had tubes or if I didn't make any Other, um, you know, impressions on the world and just raise my kids to be able to see that and other people have empathy for people and animals and, you know, just [00:23:00] have some grit that, you know, I love the Lord and that's it.

I, then my mission in life, if I don't do anything else, that is most important thing, because I think. Children are the most important work, and I do enjoy my work at tubes, but they they're they're my most important work for sure. As a mother, I'm sure it's also so rewarding, you know, just seeing the those incremental steps of them.

understanding different aspects of the farm, which is just like a reflection of life itself. It's so cool. Um, like Brett was saying, you know, five years ago we had our own like nutritional transformations and journeys, but we've also gotten really close with a lot of people who have really been intentional about the way that they raise their kids.

And, um, you know, a lot of them are actually faith based and I don't think that that is, um, by coincidence. I think that Their faith has led them to want to really impart wisdom that they, these kids [00:24:00] can carry with them for their entire life. And I'm curious, you know, just on your perspective of what drove you to make that decision about homeschooling?

Like. It's, it's in our corner of the internet and, you know, the people we talk to on a regular basis, it isn't, you know, necessarily seen as something that's outside of the norm, but for most people it is. So I'm curious, like what drove you guys to make that decision? So actually our kids went to conventional school.

So our oldest went to, um, regular school until second grade or third grade, third grade, and then, um, a second, Micah finished kindergarten and regular school, and we were, you know, working on tubes at the time, um, we're living on the farm and. It just no longer aligned with our goals for our family. And we, we went at like Christmas time and it was halfway through the school year and my husband went in and he just like yanked everybody out, signed all [00:25:00] the paperwork.

And we were like, and we're not coming back. Um, and when they asked us why. It was, we were just like, we just have a different vision for our family. Nothing you did nothing. We, you know, it's, it just didn't fit anymore. What our ethos was for our family. And we wanted to instill in our kids more than just academics.

And you can't do that when they're at school all day, they, they wake up so early and they get home late and then they have homework and there's just not enough time to be with their parents and, and, you know, be. Um, learning other things like, you know, if my husband's out there working on the tractor and pulling fence wire out of the bush hog and our sons are right there with them, they don't have to learn how to do that when they're adults, they will already know.

And in addition, you know, academics are important, but they are able to do them in such a shorter amount of time. And then just follow us, but we take them everywhere. If, if I'm there, most likely my kids [00:26:00] are there too. And so they're able to learn to converse with adults. They don't, they don't have a fear of speaking with people that are different ages than them.

They're not confined to just their own age in the classroom all day. And. I've really seen just them flourish. And my oldest was, you know, I can remember driving to school, driving her to school and it's spelling tests on Friday and it would be like Wednesday and Thursday and we're going over spelling tests on the way, you know, our spelling words on the way and she's having all this anxiety.

I don't know my spelling words. And then Friday, she's like, spelling test is today. And I still don't know. And just seeing that anxiety and that pressure on a 30 year old. third grader who should be outside like painting butterflies and doing, uh, you know, spelling. It should be just way less important to her at that age.

And that was one of the reasons that we pulled them out. It's just this intense, um, stressful environment to perform. And now they're just doing so great without that pressure. [00:27:00] And so we don't do grades. We teach to mastery. So if we're learning a new concept and it's something difficult, like fractions and decimals, and we're multiplying and dividing them, which I had to reteach myself how to do that.

Um, then we just continued to do it to you master. And I'm like, Hey, you don't get it. No big deal. We'll do it. We'll do it again tomorrow. If it takes weeks. Then it takes weeks. If your sister is getting it and you're not, then we'll just continue to learn it until we master it. And it just takes the pressure off of having to learn it like really quickly or within a certain amount of time or telling the child that, Oh F D, you know, I'm a failure.

I'm not learning it because everybody learns at different rates. And so what I think is the most cool about homeschool. Is that my 11 year old can be, uh, in, he's like in seventh, eighth grade math, and he might be on a fifth grade reading level. So we're going to continue to go in math because he's [00:28:00] excelling and we're going to keep going through the books until he's done.

And so you can take one subject and excel in something they're great at. And continue to go way ahead grade level, and then might be a little behind in a different, and I don't like to use the word behind, but in a different grade level for another subject. And that's okay too. And we learn so quickly when they're older.

So if they don't master something at seven, and we reintroduce it at nine, instead of it taking months and months of trying to learn it at nine, they're, Brains have developed to the point where they're like, Oh, I got that. No problem. Moved on to the next thing. Um, it took me a long time to understand that that's okay.

And I kind of went into homeschooling thinking we would do school at home, but homeschool is a completely different concept than a conventional school. And it takes on programming ourself from what society says is school to understand that homeschooling is [00:29:00] different and it's just going to be different and allowing them to learn in the way that they do.

You'll just they just excel and you see them their personalities. In their academics and, um, just their maturity change because they don't have those societal pressures anymore. That's that's so well said. And it sounds like you're saying it's almost like you're teaching your children the pursuit of mastery, but in a way where it should actually be fun and enjoyable, because if they're not feeling that pressure and they're feeling fun and they're seeing themselves improving.

They're not, you naturally want to go all in on that thing that, that you think you're good at. And you even think about your daughter getting stressed out about the spelling test. I remember getting stressed out about similar things. And as a founder, I'm like, okay, if I can't spell a word, I literally have auto correct on Gmail.

Like, why am I getting, like, why are we putting pressure on kids about these things that don't really matter to the point that they're crying? It's just, it's just absurd. Yeah. And [00:30:00] it's, it's motivating. To think about this next generation, like your children, like just the past that they'll, they'll end up choosing.

And, and I know everyone is, you know, a lot of people are doom and gloom about modern society. And I think we're Harry and I fall on is that it's the best period ever to be an entrepreneur. Um, you know, we both, we both met playing college baseball at Babson college, which is an entrepreneurial school up in Boston and 99 percent of our classmates, even though they had an entrepreneurial degree, they didn't.

Just work these corporate jobs were through the Internet. We've connected with so many young people that just started really young. Maybe they didn't go to college. Maybe they dropped out of college. And now they have multimillion dollar e commerce businesses because they taught themselves this amazing skillset.

And I even think about what we're doing now, like everything that we've learned, I can never learn that by getting an MBA or reading something out of a business book. So I just think it's going to be really cool to see how your kids turn out, especially cause your oldest two are at the age where they're going to remember mom, like putting in those hours, launching tubes and [00:31:00] co.

Formulating products, shipping out boxes. That's something I think a lot about with my dad is like, I have memories of him waking up really early to go into work and just kind of leading by that example. And, um, I'm sure your kids see all that with you as well. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's, we definitely involve them in all facets.

Everything we do, we do as a family. And sometimes that means it takes longer. Um, but when you think, and it's not always easy. And so I don't want to make it sound like, Oh, our kids do everything with us and they're so great. And they're so well behaved. Sometimes it's a struggle and we have to choose the struggle and choose for it to take longer because we've involved them in our day to day.

And that some days it's easier than others. And some days I'm like, Oh, what am I doing? I'm definitely starting to see the fruits of that. And our older children is like, okay, you know, the, the days are long, but the years are short and for sure I'm seeing the fruit in them and it makes it so worth it, [00:32:00] you, you have me thinking about just the industrial system in general and how it plays out.

How it really does. It applies to our schooling system. And one of the things that you were talking about was just these natural limitations that we set for kids at certain ages and the expectations that that puts on them. And I think as a society, we've done a pretty good job with this industrial system of making everything feel very mechanistic.

And the, I guess, opposite of that, or kind of to the contrary of that is this abundance that can happen when you are able to really let your children flow towards the things that they're naturally drawn towards. And I really just, the more conversations we have like this, I just grow inspired to see how people are living that abundant life and Passing it down to their kids, like this ability for them to pour into subjects that they actually are really drawn to.

I think like in a conventional schooling [00:33:00] system, maybe they're not able to continue to reach their potential because they're kind of like capped out at what the expectations are for that grade. So it's really beautiful. Just the idea that, you know, you're teaching them mastery and mastery is one of those things where.

Once they learn competence in the actual ability to learn those skills, it's easily applicable to other things. So I just love, you know, what, what you stand for with that in terms of just being able to teach that stuff to your kids. It's so great. It's just, it's inspiring, honestly.