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Welcome to the FM Energise Podcast by Forbes Marshall, where we explore manufacturing excellence, energy efficiency, and industrial sustainability. This show goes beyond just optimizing processes, it’s about creating smarter, more efficient operations through industrial automation, digital services, and embracing the future with Industry 4.0 and IOT.
In each episode, we dive into topics such as process control and instrumentation, steam engineering, and thermodynamics, all while keeping sustainability at the forefront. We’ll also discuss how to create a great place to work where people feel valued, nurture a culture of trust and collaboration, and inspire positive change through social initiatives & CSR efforts that align with every organization’s core values.
If you’re passionate about leading your company toward sustainable growth, improving operational efficiency, and creating a culture that empowers your team, the FM Energise Podcast is your go-to source for expert advice and inspiring conversations.
DARIUS
Well, good morning everyone and thank you for joining us for the podcast today. I'll begin by introducing myself. My name is Darius Forbes and I look after the international business at Forbes Marshall. So sort of everything that's outside of India comes under my purview, along with a colleague of mine here in Pune. I am based in Singapore, where I look after the manufacturing plant that we have in Singapore, in addition to the overall business that we have outside of India. I spend a lot of my time traveling, meeting our customers around the world and spending time with our teams in multiple geographies around the world as well. So rather than being in India or in Singapore, I spend most of my time on an airline. But that's a little bit about myself. I'll ask my colleague Sunil to introduce himself now.
SUNIL
Thanks, Darius. I've been involved with Forbes Marshall now from 1988. So it's about 37 years I've been involved with Forbes Marshall. It's been a lovely interesting journey for me. And it all started in Bangalore as a sales engineer way back in 1988. In 1992, I transitioned to Puna and we started the international business. 1992, all the way up to 2022, about 30 years in Puna, helping the teams in Puna and internationally. We set up 16 companies globally in this period of 30 years, 16 offices, 16 companies. Went from a team of two people to a team of 160 people. And now I believe we have closer to 200 people out in the teams. And it's been a wonderful journey for me. And I continue to be involved with the company, helping Darius Deepak and the others set up the American businesses, helping them with South America, a little bit in Canada. And of course, whatever little mentoring I can do with Darius and the team here.
DARIUS
Thank you. Thank you, Sunil. So a little bit of context for the discussion that we're about to have today. It's about the evolution of our international business. And just to give everyone, as Sunil just did actually give you the context about that. We started the business in 1992 in Sri Lanka. And today we have now grown to having 16 permanent offices outside of India. We supply products and services to approximately 40 countries globally as well. But broadly, in terms of giving you some perspective as to why international business has been important and relevant for us as a company, we've always had an ambition to be a global company. So to be a global company, you need to have a global business and an international business in that sense, both in terms of the markets we cater to, but also culturally as a company as well to be more international in our outlook and endeavors. At the same time, we at FM, we truly believe we do, we make a difference for the environment on a daily basis. There's no reason or good reason to restrict this to just India. It's necessary to take this, and we believe necessary to take this to the world in gusto and make this a key contributor for our overall success as a company going forward and for the world in totality going forward as well. So with that, I think it'd be a good idea to launch into talking about the first steps that we took internationally, Sunil, and your perspective and your stories about what we did over there to sort of take this, to accept this.
SUNIL
Thanks. Thanks so much, Darius. I think it is a vision, as you said, of the management of the Forbes family and of the directors then of Mr. Khambata and others who actually motivated all of us. I think way back in 1992, I remember the date very clearly, 29th of March, I got a call from Mr. Khambata and he said, "Sunil, do you want to come and help us start the international business?" So I said, "Sure, sir." He said, "When can you come?" I landed up on April 1st, by the way, April Fool's Day. I landed up here. She said, "What are you doing here?" I said, "I've come to start the international business." He said, "Very good, very good." The first thing we did is look around for a space to sit table chair. We found a table chair and we went and found ourselves parked there. So that's how we started. And then we had two people at that point in time.
SUNIL
In the earlier days, I remember Naushad quoting to us what Baba Kalyani once told him at a meeting they had that when you grow a business to 25% internationally of the company's business, that's when you really see the DNA of the company and structure of the company start changing. And that stayed with me for many, many years. And I spoke about that to our team, saying that we really want to grow our business to at least 25%. And now I know we have ambitions of even growing to 50%. And so having said that, what we did is that in the initial days, we were largely opportunistic, not knowing what to do. We went around, but we started with a few countries. We started basically in South Asia and in the Middle East and kept the focus on two or three markets. And at that time, Farhad was very involved with us. I remember sitting in hotel rooms and looking up yellow pages with Farhad to see, find addresses of customers, of possible distributors, representatives.
SUNIL
And we were lucky, I would say, in finding some very nice partners, very good customers. And within a couple of years itself, we got a lot of momentum into our business. So I would say by year two or year three itself, we were well into five, six markets and had good partners. In those days, we would go in initially with a distributor or a local partner. And within four, five years, we had partnerships and we had acquired, my guess is in the first three, four years, at least about 100 customers across these markets.
SUNIL
And it started off very well, which motivated us to go further into different countries and different markets. The other stuff we did was, we insisted as we got into these markets, we kind of got customer confidence, got customer loyalty on our side. And that was done, you know, derives largely by engaging with customers differently from what our competitors normally do. So we'd engage with them, maybe talk to them, as you said, about environment solutions, about efficiency solutions, about productivity solutions. We put all this into a package and then provided them with an overall holistic service, which was not being done earlier by our competitors. And that really came across very well and helped us acquire customers, build their confidence, build reference sites, build, you know, long term partnerships. We've had customers who've been giving us business now for 30 years. And they've grown with us into giants like us. And so it's been a really interesting journey. And now as we mentioned earlier, we are in 16 markets, 16 countries, 40 markets, I guess now. And we employ people from how many I guess, about how many?
DARIUS
19 nationalities, 20 nationalities, probably that was in the 10. 20 nationalities, yeah.
SUNIL
We'll probably be at 20 next week. Yeah, so pretty interesting. So that's how we grew our business from the start.
DARIUS
No, just to maybe press further on that. But was there a particular moment or at some point of time in that initial journey where you were like, okay, this is really going to be something big for the company someday. Was there a particular moment where you really felt, yeah, this is the future.
SUNIL
You know, we did a seminar, for example, in Sri Lanka once, where our competitor, I won't mention his name or the company's name, and they did a seminar in a room. And we figured out that these guys were going to be doing a seminar in this room on this date. So we had the hall just after that. So they finished at seven o'clock, we got to seven o'clock.
SUNIL
And we actually physically went and caught the customers who were there. It was specifically for DC Millers, caught them and made them come back in the room and offered them dinner and drinks and everything. And from that group of about 18, 20 customers, I think we got about 12 or 13 orders subsequently.
DARIUS
Right.
SUNIL
So we just said that if we do things differently, if we do things, what customers really need, if we provide them solutions, that really got us.
DARIUS
And I think that sort of fits in with the DNA of the company. And you know, our philosophy in some ways is that, yeah, we're professionals at the end of the day and the company and Forbes Marshall is a professional company, but we enjoy what we do. We're not very wooden in what we do. We value the emotional connect. We go beyond just the academics of what we're offering to our customers, I think on a regular basis. And we have to think inevitably, but we also think inevitably often the solution is more human related.
DARIUS
And I think that's a great example that you just, you know, absolutely.
SUNIL
We made friends with so many customers along the way. They actually became personal friends of ours. And you know, many customers have joined our company and they've become our country managers.
DARIUS
Of course.
SUNIL
You know, whether it was in Sri Lanka or Bangladesh, or whether it was in Egypt, we've had our customers join us and become heading the business.
DARIUS
Absolutely. Yeah. No, I think as we go forward now also in terms of scaling this, right? Yeah. That's one of the biggest challenges that we have is that how do we, how does, how is this very unique culture that exists that comes Marshall? How do we, how do we inculcate the best of that culture?
SUNIL
Yeah.
DARIUS
Everywhere else in the world with these large teams that we're now recruiting and have recruited and are adding on to. Yeah. How do we take the best of that culture? This very human, human connect perspective that you know, you described so aptly, take the best of that, but also adapted to the, you know, the local cultures that exist in so many of these markets that we're, what they're now present in. I'm a big believer that, you know, these markets that we're in, you know, we are the visitors, ultimately. Right. We're the visitors. We're not going in that sort of impose and put the Indian mentality of the Indian culture. I mean, we know this from our own experience of trying to grow this business that that's not the way it works. There has to be a level of deep empathy and understanding and appreciation for the best of what exists in these markets that we're now, you know, based in and, but at the same time, blending in the parts and the pieces that we have been successful with and used as tools of leverage to be successful in, along with those very unique and useful perspectives that come from these markets also. And I think that's the journey that we're on now in terms of trying to establish this global brand.
SUNIL
Absolutely, Darius. You know, you may want to tell us a little bit about, you know, this whole thing about building local teams, hiring local people, you know, what are your thoughts about that? How do you see it build out? How do you see, you know, us becoming, you know, truly Indian multinational. What are your thoughts on that, Darius?
DARIUS
Well, I think, I think, Sunil, the easy win, of course, would have always been that, you know, we send a bunch of expats out from here, who from India, who knowledgeable, know the company, know the technology inside out. That gives you success. Right. But I think the, what we value in Forbes Marshall, and I think we have the luxury of being a family business as well, is that it lets us think long term. And when you think long term, and if you really want to do justice to a global business long term, you have to have a people strategy that revolves around hiring, developing, and recruiting local individuals. And I think that's the, that's the DNA that we really tried to sort of inculcate into the global business, you know, going forward that, and it comes purely out of this aspect that, you know, we want to be sustainable in these markets, that we don't enter, we don't enter a market today with a short term view that, you know, we'll make a quick buck in a few years, and then we'll exit and, you know, use those profits and take them to another market to re-enter, make them multiply and invest that and then get a return on it, no, that's just not the philosophy that, you know, we operate in. And that's what I mean, how we've done it in India for so many years, we have customers that we've been with for 50 years and 60 years and longer than that in some cases. And that's what we're trying to do overseas. And it starts with the people you recruit, you can't keep sending expats to these markets to do that. And I think the only way that one can be successful with this sort of strategy going forward is if one has, you know, an appreciation, you know, for the emotional quotient or the EQ in terms of being able to adapt and recognize what is good to take from those cultures and also be, and also what to not take in some ways also.
SUNIL
And what are your thoughts about how does one go about recruiting, are getting good people on board? How do we get the best of talent? And then what are your thoughts around how do we nurture these people and how do we make them productive and, you know, you're as good as the people in your team are. Absolutely. What are your thoughts on that?
DARIUS
It's on the job training. I mean, in what we do in FM, it is so it's a direct sales model approach that we take to the market. And I think what we'd like to believe is that it's a very more involved process than pretty much any anyone else does in the market. But of course, we have very strong competition and very successful competition in all of these places that we're located in. And there's much that we admire about what our competitors do as well and much to learn from them too. But I think there are multiple pools that are available. And I think the approach that we've taken, you know, to really be really inculcate that Forbes Marshall DNA through is maybe recruit people who are right, fresh out of college. There's a there's this enthusiasm, there's a there's a level of energy and an open-mindedness to sort of absorbing like a sponge almost.
SUNIL
Right. Is it fair to say that about 50% of the people we hire internationally now are fresh graduates in these, their GTs, as we call them?
DARIUS
I would say more. I would say now probably more in the, I'd say three-fourths would probably be GTs now. And I think that's also taken some time internally for us to accept, because obviously a lot of again, it's the long term, it's the long term thought process, right, that I think gives us the confidence to do that. That the thought process, I think, for a while is that, you know, you recruit people with some experience because they also come with knowledge of the market and customers who that, you know, we could then sort of tap onto their knowledge and leverage. But we're so we're new in some of these markets anyway. Right. And so perhaps we should learn these customers through the lens of people that we recruit and who also come without baggage, essentially, what they've acquired over their own experience and their own, you know, their own with what they've been exposed to, you know, for so many years as well. It's good to have a blend of both, though. I wouldn't say that, again, it's not a one size fits all approach.
SUNIL
It's a blend of both. Got very nice. Very nice to know. Yeah. Did I say any thoughts? You know, we've been, you know, obviously over the last two or three decades, we've grown our businesses in markets after doing a lot of, you know, I remember how we got into some market around 2015, when we had this new product range available for us to go international. We actually did a very, very systematic way of approaching and understanding which markets had potential, which markets, you know, the political environment around the markets, you know, things like import restrictions and ease of, you know, getting approvals, all that, you know, so that was that's yeah, macroeconomic stuff. So that was a study we did about, let's say, eight, nine years ago. Yeah. Eight, nine years ago. And we chose specific markets to go into and then we've been, you know, growing those markets systematically. And, you know, now you and the team and Deepak and all of you are doing a great job of this. Do you have any thoughts about what next? Do you look at possibly now looking at having a few more manufacturing facilities which facilitate growing businesses more? Yeah. Any thoughts, not specific, but general thoughts on it?
DARIUS
I think that supply chain is becoming more and more complicated, you know, in the world that we live in today with tariffs and, you know, all of this jargon that's being sort of thrown our way. There's a necessity to be closer to the customer in terms of what we produce in some cases. And I think the important thing, though, is to really be able to establish very, very strong pools of customers in each of these markets, first to justify investment into these markets. And I think we're getting there. Of course, the I go back to what I said in the context setting as well, that there is need for risk mitigation, I think, in terms of diversification of the manufacturing outside of India, in some sense. But that isn't the real reason to do it. The real reason to do it is the opportunity, the business opportunity that comes our way and say there's a market that we see the potential to now acquire 1500 customers in the next five years, which we have markets sort of identified for that, which I can't share. You know, in five years time, it makes a lot of sense to possibly put in a manufacturing base over there, too. And we hope that we'll be able to get there. We are doing the right things in terms of being able to get there. But I think that ultimately, the manufacturing piece and the logistics that come with being able to supply our customers well is essential to the success of the business going forward. But it's the it's the secondary step. It's a secondary step. Today, we are doing a good job at what we have currently available to us from India and from the UK and also from Singapore, where we also have two other bases outside of India by way of manufacturing. What we do need to perhaps do more of is to leverage these existing facilities with the capacity that exists over there, really get them up to the levels that they're capable of in terms of output, and then work out all of the distribution, the logistics around from there. On that, Sunil, I'll come in and ask you a question also on that. And going back to the customers and the acquisition of customers, I think it'd be also good for you to share a little bit about what it means to be a successful Forbes Marshall engineer. And what it was like for you, I'm sure many years ago, but that made you as successful as you were right from the get go in Bangalore and those early days, and then onwards, of course, in the wonderful journey, you know, 37 years.
SUNIL
Yeah, interesting question. You know, given the fact that, you know, you and me still knock on customer doors, so we are still doing what we did many years ago. But I do think making, being successful with customers and acquiring and retaining customers, a very fundamental thing is like, don't oversell, don't overcommit, deliver what you've committed on. And be innovative. Don't just go after a product based approach, but go after a solution approach. And there are very few companies who do that, especially in your market, which we're getting into, you know, we are in a couple of free for new markets now, how are we acquiring customers by being different? Yeah, we're providing a solution, we are providing something that the customer really needs, we are not trying to push a product at a customer, we're going in, we study. And that's been over the years, we've seen this over the years grow. And it's a success that we've seen multiplied many times. I may say we've had customers now from the day we started to still give us business. And some of them large multinationals. So I believe it's, you know, building trust, holding on to the trust, not overselling, being very, very true to what you say and commit. And these are things we've built in our teams, not only internationally, but that's what we've learned from what we've done with our teams in India. And we've learned from that I started my career here in India, five years in Bangalore. And that's where I learned how we went to customers. So you know, it's basically that. And ultimately, you know what we do, we are doing, I was speaking to a friend of mine, and you know, I was telling him, I said, what do you do with a budget? You know, he's selling cold drinks. He's head of big market selling cold drinks. I said, what do you do with a budget of 200 million, $100 million marketing? He said, man, I'm selling sugar, water. You guys don't need it. You're selling stuff that saves the environment that's great for the company, great for people. So you know, that extent, we've been able to really stick the path and retain a lot of good customers. And I think it's basically that I hope I answered your question.
DARIUS
You have, I mean, and I think also, but the discipline, I think that, you know, that comes with, you know, of course, being true to these principles and these values, like you mentioned, but also the volume that I have three customers today, if I did only three today, then tomorrow has to be five. And you know, that kind of rigor is something that I think that, you know, can share an example with you?
SUNIL
Please. Yeah, I remember a few months after I joined the company, my boss, who I really love and loved a guy called DG. In those days, he used to be in Chennai and I used to be in Bangalore. And after a couple of months of struggling, I went to him and I said, Listen, you know, something's going wrong. I'm not able to, you know, get the kind of business that's expected. So DG turns around and he says, Can I see your call schedules in your call number of customers you're visiting? So I showed him my those days we wrote it in a call and written call. You see, we just visited 20 customers last week, so that's not how we do this business. This business is done by to try and target 80 customers in the month, 80 customers in the month and see how it goes.
DARIUS
Yeah.
SUNIL
So we went after that 20 customer a week. That was my last conversation with DG on that topic. And, you know, our business is going finding solutions, spending time with customers. And that's basically what I learned from day one is spend as much time with your customers and provide solutions to them. So absolutely.
DARIUS
And I mean, it's obviously evolved now, you know, we have we have tools that have come into play to assist our sales engineers with CRM systems and all of that.
SUNIL
Yeah.
DARIUS
Excellent marketing tools that are available as well, which are very different back in the day. Yes, you know, that you had to employ then. But at the essence and at the heart of what makes a Forbes Marshall engineer, I think successful is that that rigor, that discipline, that promise and that that ideal of, you know, benefiting the customer at the end of the day. And because you truly as the engineer see the benefit that's being provided to the customer and appreciate, of course, the monetary saving that comes your, you know, the customer's way, but also the broader environmental, you know, the sustainability feature that comes your way as a result of that and the impact that you have as a result on the environment. I think if the engineer really believes that and then then, you know, you want to multiply that effect, you know, on multiple customers. You know, Darius, it's not only us in international, but you know, the biggest story played out for many years in India. Yes. And if you see the relationships, our engineers and our managers are built with customers over 20, 30 years. It's mind blowing. It's amazing.
DARIUS
Yeah.
SUNIL
Kind of savings, the kind of environment benefits, customer benefits, productivity benefits. We are selling a nice bouquet of lovely benefits to the customer, which benefits them. And that's probably one of the reasons why, you know, even in our international teams and domestic teams, we have people like me who spent 37 years, probably a whole management team has spent 30 years plus. And you know, our engineers abroad, engineers in India, they so many years with us, and it's so motivated, so happy, which are providing something which is beneficial. And we actually see the benefits.
DARIUS
Absolutely. Yeah, absolutely. Actually, you know, we are a manufacturing company in essence, but and I mean, this is so relevant in the context of international business and for us as a company internationally, is that I think we, yes, we're a manufacturing company, but at the end of the day, what we really are doing in the field on a day to day basis, it's a service. Yes. In essence, we are actually providing our customers with service and the products piggyback on those services in that we do on a daily basis. And I think we hope that our customers see us, you know, in that in those lights, you know, in time, and not just as being a manufacturing company. But that's that's what I think, if we stick in, if we internally stick through to that philosophy, again, that's how we sort of guarantee that that special, deeper service oriented approach with the customer. Yeah. And everywhere, like we've done this in India for so many years, and therefore been successful as a result in India.
SUNIL
Yeah, just a little bit on that, you know, I think we're very unique as an organization. About a couple of decades back when we started providing audit services, yes, providing consultancy services. Now we do it equipment wise. Yeah, correct. You know, very few people do this, leave aside in our in our scope of engineering, but outside also, when we go and connect with customers in different parts of the world, they find our approach very unique. I think that's something which is deeply rooted in our culture of our company. And we should, you know, make all efforts to, you know, take this forward and make sure that this is the approach we have.
DARIUS
Yeah, I we will do our best to preserve it.
SUNIL
The good thing, yeah, the good thing I've seen that you know, you you spent so many years now in the field. Yeah, I'm guessing what five years in the field now longer, longer, five, six, seven years. But you spent a lot of getting that customer knowledge, meeting customers day in and day out is giving the right feedback to the organization for the future strategy.
DARIUS
And that's the most honestly, for me personally, the most fulfilling part of what I do on a daily basis is just that it's spending time with our customers in the field, and not just our customers, but our own people in the field. Yes, I mean, there's we have fun in our company, you know, we have fun, we work hard from nine to five, and then, you know, in the evenings, we have a good time. We decide how we discuss business, we talk about strategy, but we also find time to spend time personally in terms of getting to know each other better, which I think is also very special about us and what we do.
SUNIL
The bonds we have with some of our own teams and employees and with our, you know, whether it's engineer or country manager, it's something very unique. Yeah, I don't think I've seen this probably because we have people who've been around and tend to remain with the company for a very, you develop long term friendships, they become like a part of a larger family. And, you know, you're doing things with your, so I'm sure when you're traveling around and meet various teams and engineers, it must be like almost being with your buddies and your pals.
DARIUS
It is. I mean, we were together a few months ago and we played golf, you know, with Sabah, with our well, customers supposed to join us, but couldn't, but you know, we will get to that at some point of time. But yeah, it is, it's a luxury having an extended family that you have through your own professional world and your professional existence. And this is such an important part, again, of the culture of what I think we've been able to build. And this is part of that element of what we like to take overseas as well. And, you know, how do we again preserve this very, very important ethos of what makes us different? How do we preserve this? Not just like what we've had in India, but how do we preserve this overseas as well? And I think it's by spending time with our guys in the field like this. It's by focusing on these important soft aspects as well to the business and that it's not always about money at the end of the day. I mean, I think wealth is not why we do what we do. It's a, it has a much larger altruistic reason to be part of Forbes Marshall today. And frankly, I mean, maybe this is getting a little too philosophical, but I think to be alive in general, it can't always be about, you know, money. But of course, that's, we all come from different contexts. And so it's obviously, it's obviously very different in some contexts. And we recognize that too.
SUNIL
You know, as we grow larger, and our teams grow bigger, and, you know, we're doing a great job today, I see of, you know, making everybody feel a part of the team and feel part of the Forbes Marshall larger family. As we grow various markets bigger and larger, any thoughts on the future and how we integrate people, of course, technology is there, you know, we've got now, fortunately for us, we can connect online, but there's so much to do with personal connections. So any thoughts on that going forward, Darayas, on how you look at when your team, today we have, let's say 250, you have 1,800 people internationally. What would be your thoughts on that? I'm throwing this at you, I'm out of the blues, but we're good to.
DARIUS
You need to work hard. I mean, at the end of the day, I think there are two ways, there's the individual, the self, in terms of your role, going from 250 to 1,800, and how would you manage that? And then also the structure that you put in place, I think to manage that. Work is hard today. I mean, it does take lots of sacrifice from myself, from yourself, from all of us in the team, traveling out on a regular basis. We spend three weeks out of four weeks every month in hotel room sometimes, but you have to find a way to make that manageable. And not just manageable, but actually pleasurable. Exactly. I think you just have to keep doing that. There's no substitute for that. And there's ways in which one can create and marry the personal aspects of our lives into that professional. I think it's essential as an individual, and I mean, not just for myself, but I think for all of us who do this today for the company, that we don't have to compartmentalize so strongly and draw lines in the sand between personal life, professional life. There's a way to make it homogenous, I think. And I think if one has that approach that can 250, 1,800, you know, you'll manage it. But then to make that also come alive, I'm not naive, you need to have a structure and you need to be creating great local leaders in these markets. That's the point. Great local leaders in these markets.
SUNIL
Great local leaders, great local teams. So I'm guessing that's where you're spending a lot of your time now, building local leadership, local teams. Absolutely. And you know, with your senior management team out there internationally, now I know you've got about 708 very, very good managers out there.
DARIUS
Yeah.
SUNIL
And through them, you'll be investing a lot of your time in that. Great. We do that.
DARIUS
And I do that today. We do that today. They in turn will create one of them will create another seven, hopefully along in time as well. And I think that again, this philosophy and management that, you know, that we all need to take is that our success as an individual or as a manager in that sense is the success of the people that report into you. That's your success. Not that, oh, they've given me this order, which I then show as my achievement, right? Or whatever numerical value that you use to sort of a judge performance. But it's that, no, has my direct reportee or reportees in some cases, are they successful? If they're successful, then I'm successful. And I think that philosophy of thoughts has to be part and parcel with any kind of structure. And as the company is growing bigger and it's it is growing bigger rapidly, we need to be clear that, you know, this mentality really sets in everywhere and that we have no dilution of this and that we therefore hold on to that personal aspect, you know, in the company, everywhere we go. And I think a lot of the markets that we operate in culturally aligned to this also, you know, to this cost in some sense.
SUNIL
Just a follow up question on the same. You know, one is with our teams, with our customers also who, you know, we have different, you know, different aspirations, different ways of looking at, you know, you could be in a, you know, in a market where there's one engineer running the whole plant compared to a different market where you've got 10 engineers running a plant. So the way the way you approach a customer, the way you so the lot of inputs, market specific inputs, which we've been working on over the years and tuning our teams to work in markets individually, where that market deserves something. But what do you think about cross connecting teams and getting people to shift from, you know, from moving around people so that, you know, we can leverage knowledge from one market to the other from India outside, outside back to India, things on those.
DARIUS
100% I think you hit the nail on the head in terms of what the next step is in the people strategy. And it is this cross border exchange of people and ideas as a result of that, of those people moving across, creating broader, more geographical responsibilities for individuals of multinationalities as well. Of course, I mean, there's a tendency, understandably so that, you know, these more cross border type roles will go to people who you have more of an affinity to culturally as well. But I think it's changing. It's changing rapidly at this point of time. And I think the next five years with the ambition that we have for the company and the growth going forward internationally, we have plans to, you know, provide more opportunities to provide more a greater focus, I think on our engineers, the best of the best engineers in different markets. So, you know, being able to sort of cross pollinate their knowledge across the world. We can have an expert for the textile industry sitting in Egypt, given the kind of excellent work that we do in, you know, and the large textile base that exists in Egypt that we cater to and cater to successfully. But the successes that we take in Egypt have relevance in Indonesia, which also has a very strong textile base as well. And likewise, the learnings that we have of what we should not do in Egypt could very well be relevant for Indonesia. And at the same time, Indonesia has a lot of knowledge about what happens over there that's relevant for Egypt too. So, you know, an exchange of engineers, Bangladesh has a very large textile and garment production base as well. Vietnam, you know, I mean, we're going into, but we're going into very specifics here, but this is the opportunity. And I mean, it gives our people also something to aspire for.
SUNIL
In terms of if you had some messaging you wanted to put out to international and, you know, generally, how would one really take the next step in growing the business and internationally and what are your thoughts around it?
DARIUS
Yeah, I would ask you the same question. So, for me, I think a couple of key points here. And we've actually covered it in some sense. But one is that the world is our oyster in every sense. We do have the ambition of, as you mentioned earlier, of approximately getting half our revenue from outside of India at some point of time, whenever that might be. So, with respect to how we go about getting this goal of 50% from outside of India, there's certain caveats. I think that we have to stay true too that we've also covered. Number one being that there's zero compromise on quality, is that we continue to be a high quality business in terms of what we supply by way of products coming out of the company, but also the services. That there's no compromise on what we do today on a regular basis. That is, we aren't going to push products onto our customers and sell them a larger spec item or over-spec them, for items that they may not need because it's more revenue for us. No. What is ultimately the best solution for the customer? Are we going to be sticking true to that? Yes, we will. And so, even if it takes longer, we don't have the ambition to be the biggest. We don't have that ambition. But we have the ambition of being the best in terms of quality, in terms of output. And to be the best, sometimes you have to say no to some things as well.
SUNIL
It's so interesting, you know, I worked with your grandfather. When we joined the company, I remember during induction, he spoke very similarly. I worked very closely with Farhad, Naushad, Rati, very similarly. And it's so nice to see this continuing.
DARIUS
I'm glad to hear that.
SUNIL
Actually, as you spoke, it just came to my mind that it's been three generations that I worked with the company for. And I find carrying forward, it's been carried forward, the philosophy, the culture, the family spirit, everything has been carried forward so nicely.
DARIUS
Thank you. That's very kind of you to say. I appreciate that very much. Why don't you also say a little bit about your ambition, I think, for the future as well, the company.
SUNIL
Yeah. In terms of what I see in terms of ambition, I think customer sits on top of the pyramid. And I think whatever we do as an organization, we need to support our customers properly. We've been getting better and better and better at it. Year on year, I can see whether it's product quality, whether it's customer needs addressing, whether it's our deliveries, we just have to get better at whatever we were doing. And if we get best in class with our customers, you know, we are seeing this in very new markets where we visit a customer within 24 hours of him wanting us there to help him with his needs. I'm saying if you're able to provide customers with best in class service and build a structure around that, which also has, you know, world beating products, world beating services, world beating people. And the last pillar of the foundation is the commitment of the management all put together, addressing customers needs. I think we are going to rock.
DARIUS
Thank you. I completely endorse what you said. It's just it's been very, very fulfilling. And I think very insightful also to hear about a lot of the past and also talk to the future. And the international business at Forbes Marshall is truly, I think, I'm biased, but I really believe it. I think it is our opportunity as a company going forward. The future is international in every sense. And in terms of the market from a market perspective, in terms of the DNA of the company, in terms of the success of the company going forward. And keep bear in mind that international includes India, of course, India is still very much part of the international rhetoric as it is in all aspects today. We are one of the largest and fastest growing economies in the world today. And it's essential that we leverage this very strong base that we have here in India and this position that we've developed in India and now leverage that and take it to the rest of the world. Excellent.
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