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“When travel stops catering to you, that’s when the real experience begins.”
Welcome to Cheryl's Travel Blueprint! I’m a former Spanish teacher turned travel advisor, passionate about curating unforgettable experiences. My expertise lies in European adventures (with a special love for Spain), cruising, and all-inclusive Caribbean getaways. I specialize in creating tailored trips for families, multi-generational groups, and teachers—whether they’re traveling solo, with colleagues, or leading student groups.
In this podcast, we celebrate the joy of travel, uncover hidden gems, share practical tips and tricks, and embrace the spirit of adventure. Each episode features inspiring conversations with fascinating guests from all walks of life as they share their unique travel stories, lessons, and favorite destinations. Whether you're planning your next getaway or simply love to dream about the possibilities, this is your place to explore the world from wherever you are.
Let’s embark on this journey together! 🌍✈️
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (00:01.162)
What happens when Americans travel somewhere that doesn't cater to them? No customer service smile? No, the customer is always right. No shortcuts just because you paid more. Today's guest set out to hike one of the most demanding long distance trails in Europe and came away changed in ways he didn't expect. G. Scott Graham is the author of the upcoming book, GR20, a guide for Americans based on hiking the GR20 and end to end on the island of Corsica.
often called the hardest long distance trail in Europe. Scott, welcome to Cheryl's Travel Blueprint. I'm excited for this conversation.
G. Scott Graham (00:36.025)
I'm excited to be here, Cheryl. Thanks for having me.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (00:39.468)
You're very welcome. Let's start with the obvious question. The GR20 has a reputation, hardest trail in Europe. That doesn't exactly whisper relaxing vacation. So why this trail in Corsica?
G. Scott Graham (00:52.093)
I've always been a big hiker and adventurer. I've hiked the entire Appalachian Trail. I hiked the entire Long Trail in Vermont, which runs the spine of Vermont from Massachusetts to Canada. I've always been a big outdoors guy. And I wanted to do something to mark, you know, as we get older, you know, things start to fall off, fall apart, all those things. And I knew when I turned 50,
that I needed to do something. either needed to trade in my spouse for, you know, two, you know, 20 year olds or buy a red sports car or do something to prove my manly hood, studly hood. I had a friend who was also turning 40 that year. And so we set out to do something challenging. We agreed that we would do this challenging piece. So we made a list, we brainstormed and the GR20 was part of that list.
He wanted, we talked about doing Kilimanjaro. We talked about going to South America. We talked about a number of things. He couldn't come up with the money to do the trip. And then he had another year went by and he couldn't come up with the money to do the trip. And it became problematic. I wanted to do this trip to like mark this, you know, this 50 years of my life. And he couldn't come up with the money and.
He was like, this is it. This is going to happen this year. was like, all right, it's been, what's three years into this. And he's like, yeah, no, this is going to happen this year. And I'm going to sell my boat dock and something else and we're going to have money. we met him at a concert, him and his wife. And he said, yeah, it's going to happen. And his wife was like, no, I'm, I'm using that money to go back to school. And I was dejected. And, I came home and it was really quiet. I was just really quiet.
And my spouse turned to me and said, what's going on? said, nothing. Right. Of course spouses know that's baloney. Right. It's like, you really want to do this trip. And I'm like, and he looked at me and said, just buy the goddamn tickets. And I'm like, I'm like, I don't even know how long the trip's going to be. Is it going to be like a week, a month? He said, well, you were researching it. What do you want to do? I said, I really like to do the GR 20. If I'm going to do this by myself, I'm just going to skip all these other
G. Scott Graham (03:16.829)
fancy things, I'm going do the hardest thing. Cause the hardest thing is going to mean I'm the most subtlest guy. And, uh, he says, just buy the goddamn ticket. I said, I don't know how long it's going to be. And he said, well, just how long you, what's the max? says, it could be anywhere from 14 to 21 days, maybe 25 days. He says, just by 25 days. He said, if it, if you finish before 25 days, you can hang out on the beach in Corsica and drink liquor. That's not a bad option.
And so that it was in December knowing nothing about the GR 20 or how it was going to run. I sat down and bought a plane ticket to Nice, from the United States, from Boston Logan airport. And, and then figured I would take a ferry to Corsica cause that's the only way you can really get there. There's, there is an airport, but it's all small little baby planes. And so I got a ticket to Nice round trip.
And that was that. And I started planning from there. And the next thing you know, I was on the trail.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (04:22.252)
Wow, that's so adventurous. Did you have expectations going in that turned out to be wrong?
G. Scott Graham (04:30.159)
Yes. I thought it was going to be a really hard hiking trail. And sorry Europeans, compared to America, it's not. It's very rugged. Don't get me wrong. It is very, very rugged. But I live in New England and we live up in the White Mountains, is, know, rock, talus rock above treeline.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (04:43.1)
wow.
G. Scott Graham (04:58.427)
very difficult hiking. You're basically going over boulders the size of cars. And so there's not as difficult points as the GR20. There's some points of the GR20 where you really need, they have chains screwed to the rock. And you have to use the chain and chains as guides. But in terms of being exposed and being above treeline and very rugged terrain,
I was expecting a lot worse and, was a lot easier than I had thought it was going to be. I still got blisters while I was going, but I, and, and, and had to tape them up, but that was due mainly to my poor training and as opposed to, as opposed to the difficulty of trail.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (05:54.239)
And so what is the training that goes into a big hike?
G. Scott Graham (06:00.059)
You really need to be able to develop stamina in your quadriceps. Those are the muscles above your knees to your hips, those on the top to really propel you to go up as well as your calf muscles. It's really like a big lower body piece. And you're also carrying potentially a hefty amount of weight. I went very light when I did the GR20.
My pack weighed maybe 20 pounds when I and so I wasn't carrying big amounts of food with me. Unlike when you're when I was hiking the Appalachian trail. I had a stove and food and all these things that I'm bringing. You don't need that with the GR 20. There's shelters. They along the way that you can stay in and they make you food that you can purchase dinner. You can, you know, purchase a meal plan with them breakfast and dinner.
It's some places let you do stuff a la carte. It's as long as you have some, some French money, not American money, you're, you're going to be set up to purchase things along the way and get the supplies that you need. One place even had ice cream, ice cream. Yeah. Yeah. I had some really decadent gelato at this one refuge. call it, they call them refuges along the way.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (07:14.136)
Really?
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (07:25.262)
That's worth it right there, just for the gelato. So would you say, what was the most surprising outside of the, I guess, the lack of difficulty, physical difficulty?
G. Scott Graham (07:25.809)
Yeah. It is.
G. Scott Graham (07:41.731)
In the, in the United States, then this is, this is not, this is just the truth in the United States. We have a strong wilderness ethic, so driven by pack in pack out what you bring in, bring it out with you. Don't leave a mess. it's a, it's been instilled with me since I worked with the national outdoor leadership school and outward bound that you don't just leave your garbage behind as you're going.
I don't know if it's because it's the GR20 is so close to populated centers or it's because a lot of people, because it's listed as the hardest hike in Europe, and it is, guess, lots of people, Europeans train and come out to it. And so they come out to it to do it as opposed to America, where we're into national parks and things like that. want to make sure that if we're doing it, we're doing it and it's clean.
There was more garbage along the trail than I have ever seen in my entire outdoor experience. There was so much garbage, Cheryl, that I made a list of it, of things. Cans. Cans. People took crap in the middle of the trail. I got a picture of it. Tampons. I've never seen a tampon on a hiking trail, ever, in America.
I mean, that's just a small little piece of every cigarette butts, cigarette butts on the, on the trail because it's a lot of the people I met on the trail from Europe were there to do the trail. Right. It was like a right a passion passage and around an achievement as opposed to getting out into the wilderness.
Don't get me wrong, there are many beautiful parts of the trail. Many, many beautiful parts of the trail and it's dangerous. In fact, when I was there, there was a rock slide and like four or five people were killed on the trail that I was hiking. And they closed it down and we had to go around by a bus. The bus drive was more harrowing than the trail. was one of these skinny...
G. Scott Graham (10:02.039)
Windy roads, you come around the turn and there's a car coming in the other direction and you just go like that because you're like, please. And there's a big drop off on the side. That was, we had to go around the part that they closed because all these, group of people died. And at almost every refuge, they have a place for helicopter evacuations. We don't have that in United States, but also
I think people are more careful about going into the wilderness in the United States because it's, it's, know, there's not landing pads at the ref at the shelters in the white mountains. Nowhere on the Appalachian Trail is there a helicopter pad next to any of the shelters that you sleep out at. Not at all.
There there is.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (10:54.158)
So, yeah, so I guess that's what you mean when you say how un-American the experience is, those examples that you just gave. Yeah. So can you tell me a little bit about the refuges, like what they're, a little bit more about what they're like? The way I envision it when you describe it, it sounds like a place where you get to meet people from all walks of life and share your stories.
G. Scott Graham (11:05.405)
Correct. Yes. Yeah.
G. Scott Graham (11:21.469)
Absolutely. Absolutely. I met some folks there that ended up becoming my buddies and pals. We hiked the whole trail together. It was really fun, the friendship that we got. And I have pictures of them. And they have pictures of me. And we shared all that as we journeyed together. And so these refuges, think of them like large bunk houses.
And those large bunk houses also have a kitchen area. That kitchen area is not for hikers to use, but it's an area that the people who are running the bunk house use to make their meals. And then there's a bedroom and stuff for the people that are running the refuge itself. There's a bunch of tables, picnic tables outside or tables inside.
sometimes undercover a little bit sometimes not and There's also places around the refuge for people to camp So I brought my own tent It wasn't it was it was a tent believe it or not Gerald that I got from when I worked in outward bound in the 1990s that's how old it was this and I did this in 2015 and then in just and now finally getting around to write the book but the
the this little tent was not a light tent and was a small tent just for me. So it was light in that sense, but not compared to the ultra light tents they have today. And so that's that's that's how kind of their build. So there's a couple of refuges that are build built around old ski centers. Think of like downhill skiing out west where there might be like a ski lodge that's not really used anymore because nobody goes skiing there.
G. Scott Graham (13:15.941)
And then that ski lodge becomes this refuge for hikers to come to. And so I spent a couple nights in places like that too. Flesh toilets. Woohoo!
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (13:27.662)
Yes, indeed. What are some cultural expectations that Americans routinely get wrong when they go on these types of hikes?
G. Scott Graham (13:36.315)
my gosh. I'll tell you the biggest one is that Americans think the world revolves around them and expects everyone else in the world to speak American, not English America. Right? That's like how that's like the attitude. There's no better way to say that. I was, I, I studied French in college. you're, if you're thinking of doing this, going overseas.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (13:53.454)
American.
G. Scott Graham (14:06.525)
It's so important that you learn the language and the culture of the places that you're going and not just stroll in and assume that the world revolves around you. It's embarrassing to the rest of us. It's embarrassing to the rest of us. Here's a true story. I got to a hotel that I was staying at in Nice on the way out and I had done my planning. stayed at this hotel on the way out and on the way back. So I took the, went to Nice.
stayed overnight at the hotel, took the ferry to Corsica, hiked the trail, then got the ferry back to Nice from Corsica and stayed at the same hotel. So I brought a piece of luggage with me that I left all my normal stuff in and I left it at the hotel. I had to look around for a hotel that would let you store your luggage. Not all hotels do. This one did. And so I'm checking in at the hotel and
There was some guy in front of me and he was clearly from the UK. He had a strong British accent and he was talking to this person and he clearly did not speak a bit of French and he just went back and forth with this person and got, how come you don't speak English? This couldn't get his things answered. She was going, trying to answer him in French and telling him this and that really mad. And finally he stormed off.
He was out of sight. came up next. I introduced myself. I said that I had a reservation in French was broken because it's not, it's not my first language. I said that I had a piece of luggage and that I wanted to leave that with her. And she looked at me and responded in perfect English.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (15:56.278)
I love it.
G. Scott Graham (15:59.581)
perfect English.
G. Scott Graham (16:05.051)
Yeah. You know, I, I, I showed her that I was willing to work and make that effort. Right. Can you blame her for not doing that? I would, we would, we do, we're currently doing that in our country. Right. Get out of here foreigners. Right. And then we go into another country and are like, you you have to bow to us. They just, it's, you can't do that. You have to be flexible. Yeah. A good guest.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (16:13.582)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (16:22.35)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (16:33.408)
Yes. Yeah, absolutely. that always, why do you go on a trip to another country if you don't want an experience that's different from what you can get at home? That's hard to understand, you know.
G. Scott Graham (16:45.917)
Right. Right. You want to eat the food that you want to eat. You want to, you want to see what they want to do. I told you, I had hooked up with these, two guys from the UK and we hiked together and we stopped at the trail across this road and there was a really nice restaurant and we stopped to eat at the restaurant and I ordered some, something with French fries and she brought out the food and, and, and
I, she said, can I get you anything else? And I asked, I asked in French if she could give me some ketchup and the, she walked away and the guy from one guy from the UK Gerard looked at me and said, she's not going to bring a ketchup mate. And I'm like, sure. She is. She did not bring me ketchup. I flagged her down again, asked her for the ketchup. goes, she is not going to bring you ketchup. Don't even ask. And I was like,
I'm just going to ask one more time because I can't believe she's not going to bring me ketchup for the french fries. And she did not bring me ketchup for the french fries. Not because, not because of, you know, bad service. It was like, no, you don't do that. And I'm going to teach you, don't do that here.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (18:00.344)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (18:06.85)
That's good. And so I guess, and that's a perfect example of traveling somewhere where they don't bend to your preferences. She was doing what she felt was what you needed, right?
G. Scott Graham (18:07.825)
Yeah.
you
G. Scott Graham (18:18.213)
Right? have to, you have to.
Correct. This was what I needed and she was going to make sure that I got it. And I did. And I did. And so the two guys from the UK that I hiked this with gave me such grief because it was a difficult time for our country politically. And I was like, I'm going to go overseas and all this American stuff. We're not going to be popular. So I put a Canadian flag on my backpack.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (18:27.016)
Mm-hmm. Excellent.
G. Scott Graham (18:52.859)
Which the Canadians hate that Americans do that. That's like, you, can Google that and you will see that can there are Americans when they travel overseas, pretend to be Canadians. And I was pretending to be a Canadian because I was not proud to be American at that time. And the two British guys kept, whenever we were in a circle of groups of folks, they always somehow managed to shift the conversation back to Canada and.
What did you do in Canada? What's your favorite? Where? Tell us about your hometown in Canada. I think, right. because they knew that I was going to stumble because I didn't have a hometown in Canada that I was in Vermont. Although in truth, if there's any state in the United States that is more Canadian than any other state, it's Vermont. Right. Right. Even the name French, right? Green mountain. So yeah.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (19:43.544)
For sure. For sure.
I'm guilty of that too. I've, I've pretended to be Canadian in when I'm overseas. Like you said, you just never know. And you know, you want your safety. So you just never know what people are going to think of you or, or say to you.
G. Scott Graham (20:00.775)
Right.
G. Scott Graham (20:04.913)
Right. So if you're watching this and you're Canadian, don't take that as an insult. Take that as a compliment. People that want to be seen as Canadians and not Americans.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (20:11.278)
Absolutely.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (20:17.56)
Hahaha
Well, I want to just pause for a moment because if you're enjoying this conversation, this is a great time to support the show. Please like this episode, subscribe and leave a comment. I read them all and they help this podcast reach more travelers who want stories that go deeper than highlights. And just a reminder, I host a monthly prize giveaway for listeners as a thank you for being a part of this community. You'll find the details in the show notes, so make sure you're subscribed so you don't miss it. All right, back to Corsica and the GR20.
I wanted to talk a little bit about life on the trail, cause this isn't a glossy adventure story and that's what's great about it. Can we talk a little bit about the reality of trail life? you know, wild pigs, lost packages, the rhythm of mountain living. What were some moments that really brought home different? I'd love to hear some more about that.
G. Scott Graham (21:06.813)
You've already hit it. Wild pigs running around. Absolutely. You had to be careful where you put some of your stuff because the horses would come. I actually had a horse steel. I had a fanny pack that I carried in the front. know, the fanny packs like you saw in the eighties, right? And whenever I go hiking, one of the things I do is I bring a fanny pack along, but I don't wear it behind me.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (21:27.726)
Mm-hmm.
G. Scott Graham (21:34.927)
I put it in front of me and then clip it into the backpack. So I have like this marsupial pouch of stuff in front of me that I can get to when I need this. And I had some food in it and some, some horse ran off with it. because I mean, these, these aren't wild, you know, killer horses. It's just, you know, they're, they're mostly domesticated and they're hanging out and came and grabbed it and off it went. And so you're watching for those things. Like, you know, there's.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (21:42.054)
huh.
G. Scott Graham (22:04.175)
a section where there's, I remember like tons of sheep. You're trying to go through this big mass of sheep to get through. And there are some sections that were, got, have gotten, you know, weather that came in that was really, really strong. And so if you did not have your wits about you and the right gear on, you could easily get disoriented off the trail and, and, confused and that wouldn't be good.
And apparently a lot of people do, which is why they have these evacuation sites for people that that get injured. But in reality, if you're just, if you have common sense, if you have common sense, you're going to be fine. Just don't do anything silly. You are definitely going to get dirty. I have never been dirtier than when I hike and including hiking out West. Like it's it's almost like it's.
It's almost like hiking and Burning Man where there's all this dust and stuff that's flying all over the place. I mean, I was tan. I was tan, dark, dark brown, and it all washed off when I took a shower the first time that I got to where I needed to be. There's a hotel that is at the halfway point. there's in the GR 20, there's a Northern half and a Southern half. And the Northern half is considered
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (23:13.198)
Mm.
G. Scott Graham (23:32.187)
the toughest part of the GR20. And so most of the people who are hiking the GR20 aren't hiking the whole thing. They just hike. They're doing the toughest trail and they're doing the toughest half and they do just the northern half. And after that, after you get to that halfway point, those folks are gone on a train for the next bit of adventure. They have their little list that they're checking off and you get to the southern half and it's just
spectacular. There's because there's not a lot of people. It felt very open, spacious, secluded compared to the northern half where at times you felt like you were in a conga line. People do tours. People sell tours for the GR20. So just picture a trail and and 10 people on a tour marching one behind each other.
on the trail and you're behind them, right? And they're going as slow as the slowest person that purchased the tour from them. And that's how the northern half was, a lot of pieces like that. I spent most of the time on the northern half of the trail saying, know, vus alai, which is you go. We've come.
You know, negotiate around each other on the Southern half. wasn't like that at all. There was one day, think it was my last day on the trail. I didn't see anybody until I got to the end of the trail where you signed a little register in the town. Nobody, nobody else. I was walking along this.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (25:25.71)
Wow.
G. Scott Graham (25:29.969)
this what looked it looked like a road and I'm like this looks like this is weird because it was really a nice wide well paved but it was like this road in the middle of the trail it was built by the Roman Empire when they had dominion over Corsica so it was kind of a nice piece that's where I was on my last day it was really it was really nice nobody nobody from a conga line in the north to nobody in the south
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (26:00.044)
Wow. And I would, well, I shouldn't, I shouldn't put words in your mouth, but which one, so I'll just ask, which one did you prefer? I know which one I, that's what I would, that's what I would have, that's what I would have said too. Cause I mean, just being able to see it on your own terms and not have to deal with all of that. So what ended up being harder mentally than physically?
G. Scott Graham (26:09.528)
sound. The sound.
G. Scott Graham (26:26.897)
The, there was a piece of feeling like an outsider in places that was there because there weren't other, there, I was the only American that I had seen on the entire trail. There certainly were other English speaking people on the trail, but the mental piece was, was harder. And the, other mental piece was, and I,
didn't realize this until I've done, done this. You know, when I was hiking the Appalachian trail, that was in the 1980s. And in order for me to make a phone, to communicate with people, you had to carry change with you so that you could go to, they had these things on polls called pay phones that you would put money in and you could call, you'd have to dial the number to call somebody.
And that was it. And by the time I did the TR 20, we had started becoming so connected. can't imagine what it's like now. Cause now the last time I was on the long trail, I remember, I remember a certain amount of camaraderie when I did the long trail in the Appalachian trail. And that was missing. When I did the long trail, you saw these people at night with like this blue glow in front of their face. And cause they were, you know, I don't know.
Instagramming, podcasting, I don't know what they were doing, but they were more connected to their phones than the environment. And I could definitely feel that when I was doing the GR 20 this time, even though that was, you know, a few years ago and not as digitally connected as we are today. It was, it was challenging. I had a little, communicator.
there it's, and so I could connect and shell share with people where I was at, but it was one way they knew where I was at. They knew that, that I was okay. They could see that I started, they could see that I ended. And it was also an emergency beacon. If I got hurt, I could push the button and somebody would come. And, but I couldn't get communication from them at all. And so it was a good thing, but you know, you, it's.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (28:47.842)
And that's probably a good thing, right?
G. Scott Graham (28:52.221)
When I was younger, I was a little bit more, I don't know, foot, foot, foot loose and fancy free share also. I didn't have responsibilities, right? So checking in on the house and the dogs and how's this and how's that? That's a, those, those things start to weigh on you as you get a little bit more gray and get a little slow or yes. Season, season. That's it.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (29:11.768)
seasoned.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (29:19.048)
my goodness. Yeah, and you know, it's so interesting the role that technology has played in every aspect of our lives. you know, people our age that can think back to what it used to be like. And like when you mentioned the pay phones, that's so funny to me because, you know, I've got grandkids and we've gone to museums and they have pay phones in the museum.
G. Scott Graham (29:20.253)
Yeah.
G. Scott Graham (29:42.617)
I know it makes me feel like I should be in a museum.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (29:46.092)
Yeah. And then, and then just even like, they just have no concept, like showing them how you made a phone call. mean, it's, hilarious, you know, but, and I'm sure that's what our, our, the generation before us probably thought as well about the things that, that we are accustomed to that are part of our daily lives.
G. Scott Graham (30:06.589)
Right. I think about, I think of my mom who really embraced technology and especially with, as she got older, she lived to be 99 years old and she was, cause she was born in 2019. mean that she was born in 1919 and she died in 2018. And so she likes, I mean, she didn't even have a telephone, there was no electricity. was like, I mean, all these things happened in one lifetime to
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (30:34.595)
Mm-hmm.
G. Scott Graham (30:35.709)
to not only just electricity, but smart lights and car. I she didn't have a car. I mean, it was not a piece that was part of her life at that time. And now we're just like digitally connected with everything. She embraced it because she was FaceTiming with folks and Zooming with folks. She was all over it. Yeah.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (30:56.078)
And it makes me wonder what I have no concept of what the future is going to be like, but I guess we'll have to see. Hopefully we'll be blessed enough to live as long as your mom did to check that out. Well, one of the things, one of the threads running through your story is humility, learning to prepare without illusion. And so I'm curious as to what the GR 20 taught you about control, entitlement, or expectations as a traveler.
G. Scott Graham (31:06.125)
It would great. It would be great. Yes.
G. Scott Graham (31:24.445)
I definitely I start I tell you this I started the gr20 and not only was I An American right pretending to be a Canadian, but I started the gr20 as a vegetarian and I ended as can are as a carnivore omnivore on this stuff because I mean you go to these refuges and they make you food right and I mean last thing they want is a you know
entitled vegetarian American. They're not going to eat the food that they serve. it's, you really had to really just take whatever they gave you. And it was great food. Don't get me wrong. This was like amazing food because a lot of these refuges had, they were like shepherds or farmers. And so they had their own.
sheep that they made their own cheese from and they made.
Yeah, their own meat that then they serve with you, which was just amazing. for me, what
what the
G. Scott Graham (32:44.667)
The biggest piece of gratitude that I have around the GR20 came from my spouse. He died in 2019 in an automobile accident.
I would not have done the trail if it wasn't for him. know, so many people in relationships are so focused on their own needs, right? This has to be this way. This has to be that way. And our relationship wasn't about that. We really were about supporting each other to be whatever the best we could be. And so.
There was a time in our relationship when I started my own business and I wasn't sure about starting my own business. And he was like, start your own business. Do it, do it. And then about five years or six years after that, you know, he wanted to start his own business as a restaurateur and he couldn't get any money to do it. Couldn't had, and nobody would give him any money. I mean, it's a hard business to start, right?
And, and people were tight because it was at the, wasn't tight. It was a recession in 2010, 2011, the economy wasn't great and we couldn't get any money. And I took out all the money that I had in my retirement fund, every single penny. And I just gave it to him.
G. Scott Graham (34:19.281)
He was, I remember him crying and he said, I don't understand why, why? I said to him, you know, I would, I would rather end up living in a box by the river, knowing that you followed your dream and you failed then selfishly clinging to some number and a dollar figure and you don't live the life that you want to be fulfilled.
Now, when I said that to him, I wasn't thinking about the GR20. It was just part of who we were as a couple. And so when this came around and I remember the weight of that feeling of like, I guess it's not, this isn't going to happen. You you have this dream or it wasn't even a huge dream. was this, this piece that felt like it was an extension of me. Like this was the thing I needed to do. And I was giving up on that, on that part of myself.
G. Scott Graham (35:19.322)
and
He wouldn't let me give up.
I mean.
And so I'm very grateful for that. And it's, and that's humbling to be in a relationship like that.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (35:37.07)
What a blessing and what an amazing partner you had to have, know, so many people are not lucky enough to have that kind of, that kind of, I don't know what the word I wanna use is, but just to have that kind of a deep connection with someone, you know? Like it sounds like he was another part of you, just by the way you describe that.
G. Scott Graham (36:00.827)
Yes. Yeah. Cause so many things are transactional these days. I'll give this to you if you give this to me or you'll give this to me. Now I have to give this to you cause I have to keep this. that was neither of us were keeping track on that piece. It was just part of who we were. had each other's back.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (36:06.894)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (36:10.446)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (36:23.146)
Mm-hmm. And just making each other better.
G. Scott Graham (36:24.443)
Yeah. Yeah. Making each other better. Even, even when you don't think you can be better and your partner thinks that you're going to be better and says, you can do it, do it, do it, do it.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (36:34.494)
Mm-hmm. Yes. Yes. Wow. So what happens when, when travel stops catering to you and you have to adapt?
G. Scott Graham (36:46.601)
you have to be, you, have to, this is the piece that we talked about, what's that so many Americans struggle with because so many Americans don't want to adapt. They don't, they, they want, they want to have that experience, but they want to, they still want to, they want it to be like Americanized, right? They want the Disney experience of whatever they're going in that place where it's all just smooth and.
And what happens when you do that is you start realizing that you're not the center of the universe. And the second you start realizing that you're not the center of the universe, you start having more compassion and joy and love for the other people in the world. cause it's not about yourself. And so I think one of the things that I got out of that whole experience of the GR 20.
was I came at the end with a lot more compassion towards other people and recognizing that there's this big, huge world out there. We're just a small part of it. It does not revolve around me. It doesn't revolve around my country. It doesn't revolve around our political views. It's just we're all together, and we all have to be flexible to do that.
G. Scott Graham (38:17.809)
You know, the people in Corsica, they were, they really hate Americans because part of the reason they hate Americans is that they had been conquered and, and, and under the dominion of so many other countries, Italy and the Romans, France, they were just not, they were not happy about it. And Americans came there. There's there, there's their capital city is Bastia and
they drove the Germans out in World War II. And the way they drove the Germans out was by taking their cows and they covered their cows with oil, lit the cows on fire and stampeded the cows into the Germans and they drove the Germans out. It was like a huge leap. I mean, that's kind of people they were, right? Light the cows on fire, create a stampede. They were just, they drove the Germans out.
And then the, told the Americans the day after they drove the Germans out, we bombed the shit out of their capital city Bastia to drive the Germans out. But the Germans were already gone. They are not, they're not pleased with Americans. and not only are they not pleased with Americans, they're not pleased with anyone. was, have my two English friends that we were traveling with pointed out that they have, they have post offices in Corsica.
And so think of it like in the United States, like, you know, we have like post offices are in Vermont or post offices in New Hampshire. And outside you see the flag flying and you see the American flag and underneath it is the state flag and maybe some other flag, but it's the American flag is always on top in Corsica in there in the federal post offices. The Corsican flag was flying on top of the French flag.
And this person said, see, I just want to point out that's the attitude of the people that you're here with. And so be mindful of that as you're talking to them, because they have been trampled on over and over and over again, and they're not taking any of it anymore. They're putting themselves first. And that's literally what they did at the federal post offices. The state flag was above the flag of the country.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (40:32.728)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (40:41.784)
Wow, they're fiercely independent.
G. Scott Graham (40:43.741)
Absolutely. Yeah. Without a doubt.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (40:48.32)
Yes. What kind of a traveler do you think would struggle here in Corsica? Aside from Americans that are very entitled.
G. Scott Graham (41:00.963)
Somebody who's not you have to have you have to be flexible It's yeah, it's there's there's a piece to have a certain amount of physical fitness like I'm assuming that if someone says, know I've been I'm hiking around the United States. I want to go check this out. You have to have a certain amount of flexibility and openness to Be with other folks and a willingness to learn the language That's that's probably the biggest the biggest point of
to question for yourself. If you're saying to yourself, and I would say that's for any country. If you're planning to go to...
Italy and you're not willing to learn about the Italian culture and you're not willing to learn Italian as a, cause that's, that's actually as much a part of the experience as the experience itself. Right. The preparation, the exposure, the learning about that, another culture and learning that language. It's not a means to an end. It's actually part of the whole experience.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (41:56.941)
Yeah.
G. Scott Graham (42:08.495)
And so if you're like, I'm not doing it, that ain't good. And if you're like, well, I'll do it, but I'm just going to learn how to say, you know, where's the bathroom? Can I have a cup of coffee and all these like standard things so I can get through it? Then that's probably not a good thing either. The best person is the one that is like, I really love like I'm psyched. I'm so grateful for the opportunity to learn another language and speak that language. That's the litmus test, I think.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (42:37.74)
Yes, because you don't want to sit on the sidelines. if you want it, I think that when you go on a vacation or when you travel, you want to have memories. And the only way to do that is to be with the people and learn the culture. And that's, like you said, the preparation to help you get there.
G. Scott Graham (42:46.557)
you
G. Scott Graham (42:55.045)
Right. Right. And you get there if you plan it out yourself and do it yourself. There's a huge big piece of difference if you purchase a tour for anywhere, right? If you purchase a tour and say, this is what I'm going to do. Someone else has done all the thinking for you, but someone has done all the work for you. And then you're just a passive participant. I'm on for the ride. You're in the aerodrome chair travel and you miss the planning pieces.
And you might as watch a movie on the GR20. Stay home and watch the movie. Watch the watchkeeper. If you're going to be there, go full boat and plan it out yourself. Make the mistakes. I got lost in Nice on my first day. I don't know how I got lost in Nice, but I got lost in Nice. And I spoke French and the French folks in Nice could see the, you know, the
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (43:28.78)
lot cheaper.
G. Scott Graham (43:53.534)
I was a late night flight, so I flew off at like, you know, wee hours of the morning in America and got into Nice. And then I'm like so tired walking around trying to get my bearings got lost. And I asked someone for directions in French and they, you know, responded right away with just, you know, caring and compassion got me on the right bus to the right place that I needed to go and I found the hotel and, and
You know, I didn't have Google Maps then, didn't have Google Translate then, none of those things. I had a foldable map of Nice to figure out my way around. And that was the best part of the adventure. All these other things that are designed to connect us in many ways insulate us and allow us to stay on the sidelines.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (44:32.099)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (44:48.75)
Mm-hmm.
G. Scott Graham (44:50.289)
grab my phone and go, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, then hold it out and then translates into the language for you. And then you say something and it translates back to me. You know, all I'm doing is building up this muscle in my arm and not much else. The muscle here, that's the really important one to develop.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (45:01.688)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (45:09.196)
Yes, yes indeed. That's, you know, well, I have to ask going back to when you first wanted to do this, this trip, the friend that was going to go with you that didn't make it, have you talked about it? Does he want to have plans to do it someday?
G. Scott Graham (45:29.711)
He's gone on other trips with his family now. You know, he's an older guy and not as, not as, not as great shape as, as then either. and so he's gone on trips with his family and his trajectory has kind of stayed like that. And so I'm not sure if, you know, what he's going to look, it'd be interesting to ask. I'm going to see him in a couple of weeks and I'm going to ask him about, about what.
What's he thinking? Does he think he'll ever do that? Does he regret not having done it? Yeah.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (46:03.722)
Mm-hmm. Okay, yeah, I was just curious.
G. Scott Graham (46:07.869)
Now I'm, now I'm curious. And when I see him, we're going to spend the night in a cabin in the woods together, a whole bunch of us. We've been doing it for years and I will make sure to ask him that point.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (46:16.674)
Mm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (46:21.452)
Yeah. Well, I hope he'll come back and put it in the comments so we can find out. But I'm sure he's proud of the work that you did and your book and everything. And so he can live vicariously through that, I suppose.
G. Scott Graham (46:22.759)
I'll you know. I'll put it in the comments.
G. Scott Graham (46:35.547)
Yes. Yeah. But please don't buy my book to live vicariously. Buy the book to plan steps out and make it happen for yourself. Because you know, the reality for all of us is, you know, we've got this vision. I don't know where it came from, but we have this vision that we're going to reach some magical age and then we're going to retire. the vision is, you know,
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (46:40.494)
Use it as an inspiration.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (46:48.972)
Yes, indeed.
G. Scott Graham (47:03.687)
There's a sunset and wine and building a boat on the beach with your spouse and something like that. And some, some tropical setting and people spent so much of their lives trying to get to some point and then they retire and then boom, it's gone because they spent their whole life focused on this one thing. And then they get, and they're like, well, now what do I do now? is this? What's what?
I'm in my retirement years, but I don't have this because they were so spent on working at life as opposed to living at life. And, if you, if you have the chance, don't wait, don't wait, don't wait, don't wait, because you're just going to end up full of regrets.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (47:43.179)
Absolutely.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (47:51.426)
You're right. if waiting for the right time, it's never going to be the right time.
G. Scott Graham (47:55.267)
Never ever. I spent three years waiting for the right time for this and I still would have been waiting if Brian hadn't said buy the goddamn ticket. So that should be it. On my gravestone I wanted to say he bought the goddamn ticket and he went. Right? He did it.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (47:59.63)
Mm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (48:05.901)
Mm-hmm.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (48:13.996)
Yes, I love it. Yes. Well, Scott, thank you for sharing a story that's honest, unpolished and deeply human. This isn't about bragging rights. It's about what happens when travel changes you in real time. So to everyone listening, if this episode made you rethink what you want from travel, please like, subscribe and leave a comment. I'd love to know what you would choose.
Would you choose comfort or challenge on your next trip? And don't forget, I host a monthly prize giveaway exclusively for listeners. So check the show notes to see how to enter. It's my way of saying thank you for being here. I'll link Scott's upcoming book and resources below. And as always, keep traveling with humility, curiosity, and an open mind. Thank you so much, Scott, for joining us and having this important conversation with me.
G. Scott Graham (48:56.381)
This was great. Thank you for hosting this and having me on board.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (49:02.964)
Of course, and you're welcome back anytime.
G. Scott Graham (49:05.434)
We'll be back next adventure.
Cheryl's Travel Blueprint (49:07.744)
Okay.