Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
Welcome to Springs and Things, the podcast where two close friends spill the tea on all things Colorado Springs! From culture and community to hidden gems and neighborhood lore, we’ve got it covered. Join us as we sip our coffee (or maybe something stronger) and dive into the stories and secrets that make this city so unique. Whether you're a local or just passing through, our fun, light-hearted, and always entertaining take on the quirks, hot topics, and insider tips will keep you coming back for more. Discover what’s really happening in the Springs—beyond the mountains and parks!
Lauren and I found ourselves in a haunted museum in the middle of a thunderstorm to talk ghost tours, and we came out with the full Emma Crawford story, which is likely not the one you've heard, plus so many others. In this episode, we sat down with Manitou Mike Mayo and Sam Driscoll, who walk us through thirty one years of Manitou Springs Ghost Tours, including the homicidal hairdresser and the con man who sold soap. One of us bought tickets immediately, the other said hard pass, and then immediately changed her mind. Spoiler. That was me.
Carly Ries:We're about to enter spooky season, folks, so this is not an episode you want to miss. And this episode is brought to you by Vanguard Aesthetics. With the summer months behind us, now is the perfect time to get them a call for your skincare needs. Hey, everyone. I'm Carly.
Lauren Ferrara:And I'm Lauren.
Carly Ries:We're two Colorado Springs locals who love uncovering everything that makes the city special. If you're the kind of person
Lauren Ferrara:who wants to know where to
Carly Ries:go, what's happening, and the stories behind it all, then you're in the right place. Welcome to Springs of Things, your insider's path
Lauren Ferrara:to hidden gems, local flavor, and unexpected moments that make The Springs one of
Carly Ries:a kind. From secret spots and can't miss events to arts, eats, and those you've gotta hear about at Local Stories. We've got you covered. So grab your coffee, settle in, and get ready to fall a little more in love with Colorado Springs. Let's dive in to Springs and Things.
Lauren Ferrara:'Sup? Kitties, warm, kitty, little fall over. What goes after that? I don't know. You left that
Carly Ries:in a message this morning, and I thought you were kidding me.
Lauren Ferrara:I'm not I'm totally not kidding. Okay. Because you it's funny to me because you seem like somebody that would like to be scared and startled, and I'm fine too scared. Yeah. Okay.
Lauren Ferrara:So maybe it's just fun for me.
Carly Ries:Is a miracle. Husband okay. So it's a miracle my husband and I are even together. Because when we were dating, we did a Breckenridge Ghost Tours with the museum up there. And I was like, oh, this would be kinda cute because if I get scared, I can snuggle into him.
Carly Ries:I like to move. Oh, this is so nice. The whole time, he'd be like, what is that? What is that? Just to mess with me.
Carly Ries:And then they end the tour with a cemetery, the first cemetery in Breckenridge story, and they bring you to the first cemetery.
Lauren Ferrara:Oh, I love old cemeteries.
Carly Ries:Well, they didn't tell us it was a pet cemetery. And I was, like, peeing my pants. I was crying not actually peeing my pants, but I was crying. Oh, good effect. And my husband was not consoling me at all.
Carly Ries:He was just playing right into it.
Lauren Ferrara:Not a deal breaker.
Carly Ries:This is like six months into our relationship. He's lucky it wasn't a deal breaker. It was close to being a deal breaker, but I just get so scared. But also, like everybody else, there is so much fun in it. And it's one of those things where I'm always kicking and screaming before I do any sort of ghost tour, but then it's just it is such a blast.
Carly Ries:And you got me
Lauren Ferrara:here today. Yay. Well, I am so excited we're here because I love history, and I'm trying to learn more Colorado history because you probably took it in fourth grade right here, so you know everything. Everything.
Carly Ries:Don't ask me any questions about it, but everything.
Lauren Ferrara:I'm catching up, so we need to
Carly Ries:bring in some some experts. Before you got here, I was talking a lot because when I'm nervous You you were talking a lot. This is shocking to me. Okay. Talking more than I usually do.
Carly Ries:Because when I get nervous, I try to be funny, and I just talk a lot. And that's what happened when we walked in to the Manitou Springs Heritage Museum today. We are here with Manitou Mike Mayo, the president of Manitou Springs Heritage Museum, and Sam Driscoll, is in charge of theater to art here in Colorado Springs in Manitou Springs for this specific segment. And they're gonna kinda give us the behind the scenes of what to expect for these ghost tours coming up. Are you guys gonna scare her?
Mike Maio:That's the extent of my acting abilities right now, but we thank you both for joining us here today to talk about our Manitou Springs Ghost Tours.
Lauren Ferrara:Here
Mike Maio:at the museum, we, hold these every year. It's an annual event for us. It's a fundraiser that we hold on for the benefit of our Manitou Springs Heritage Museum, and, we're into our thirty first season here.
Carly Ries:How did everything get started?
Mike Maio:Well, it happened back in 1995. The, Ghost Tours were formed in conjunction with the Emma Crawford Coffin Races, and so we thought it would be a nice segue to not only talk about Emma Crawford, but all the other spirits that haunt Manitou Springs. In the beginning, it was very simple. We would have maybe close to 10 to 12 denettes. It was solely a volunteer driven effort, and we relied heavily not only on volunteers at the museum, but also the students at Manitou Springs High School.
Carly Ries:So for folks who've never done it, walk us through what a night on the tour actually feels like. Say, we can maybe talk about the spirit guides, the lantern, the walk through town. Just put us in that scene. Mhmm.
Sam Driscoll:Sure. Yeah. A night in the ghost tours is really memorable. So you start the night here at the museum. You'll have your opening scene with ghost, and then the spirit guide comes and walks you through Downtown Manitou and guides you through the spirit realm that you found yourself in.
Sam Driscoll:And, yeah, you find yourself talking through all the ghosts who have found their way home to Manitou Springs. Favorite ghost? Favorite ghost? Oh, probably, I'd
Lauren Ferrara:have
Sam Driscoll:to say Soapy Smith. Yeah. Soapy Smith, he was a con artist. He traveled kind of throughout the country, but he kind of made a name for himself here in Colorado by selling bars of soap with the potential of money wrapped around the bars. It was kind of like a lottery system.
Sam Driscoll:And the way he would sell them is he'd get a big group of people, and he'd be like, oh, I have these bars of soap that are you you could find a $100 bill at the time, which was a lot of money. And he would have somebody in the audience be like, oh, I found a bar of soap that has a 20 in it, and that would rile the people up. Of course, it was a friend in the audience who would be playing along the whole time and had that pre given to him for the Fram Don rap.
Lauren Ferrara:Does he what does his voice sound like?
Sam Driscoll:I always I always kind of imagine him talking like this, kinda like slick. Yeah. Kinda kinda greasy a little bit.
Carly Ries:Alright. So, Sam, we kinda teed you up. What makes these so special from, like, a white like, the fact that actors are doing it rather than Lauren and I walking through town and be like, and there's a ghost. Boom. Boom.
Sam Driscoll:Yeah. No. One of the reasons why actors are I I feel like a great addition to this tour is just because you get the experience of what that character might actually be like, you know, instead of just, you know, having somebody explain something to you and be like, oh, this is this person. This is what they did. This is the time period they lived.
Sam Driscoll:You get almost like a firsthand experience with an actor pretending to be who that person is, and you get the you know, you get them in costume. You get them in their in their ghostly attire, their makeup. You get them doing their scene and kind of walking you through their history without just saying, this is who I am. This is what I did. You know, you kinda get, like, a like, a moment in their life.
Lauren Ferrara:And nothing like a good story to make things memorable. So Manitou has this really layered history. Without giving away too much of your best material, what do you think it is about this town specifically that makes it just so rich with ghost stories?
Mike Maio:Well, what makes it so rich are the stories that come from the directly from the residents themselves. According to many of the residents, just about every place in town is haunted, and so we pride ourselves on the ghostly aspects as well as the history of our town. So, you know, as we reach out for the stories, we base everything we do here in the museum on factual information, but due to this collaboration with Theatre des Art, we believe they do a wonderful job in weaving a script into the factual information provided by our museum. We have stories here within this museum alone that not only are ghostly, but who knows whether it's actually real or not. For example, we've had stories about this museum where a death had occurred somewhere in this museum.
Mike Maio:It was an auto body garage, an auto garage, and at one time, and as the story goes, one of the lifts collapsed on top of an employee. Very strangely enough, we see evidence of this ghost regularly here at the museum. Some of us have some ghastly tales. For example, I've come into this museum on a few occasion and have found pamphlets and literature just spread out all over the floor. There is no other explanation.
Lauren Ferrara:So I take it you are a believer in ghosts.
Mike Maio:Well, yes. If you've seen evidence of it, you do. One of the tales we also tell in this museum is the story of Emma Crawford. It's it's a legend upon which our annual coffin races are based, and, also, it was one of the first stories that we developed in connection with the ghost the ghost tours.
Lauren Ferrara:Okay. So we do have listeners who are kinda new to the area. Will you tell them a little bit more about the legend of Emma Crawford?
Mike Maio:Oh, yes. Well, I'm not quite sure how the legend ended up in context of the ghost tours, but it's a complex story that we've had to make some streamlining, on. So, I mean, Emma comes to this town in 1897. She was a concert pianist on the East Coast and performed at the finest stages in both Philadelphia and New York. She contracted tuberculosis, which was a dreaded lung disease at the time.
Mike Maio:Many residents in the East developed this disease and moved to the mountain areas in order to recover from it. Emma Crawford was no exception. She moved here in 1897. She came here with her mother and her sister. Well, as the story goes, she ended up hooking up with a man by the name of Wilhelm Hildenbrand, who was twenty years older than her.
Mike Maio:Wilhelm Hildenbrand was in town at the time to serve as an engineer. He was hired by the COG Railway to do its engineering and to develop the plans for the construction of the cog railway. So he hooks up with them, and together they start hiking the mountains of Manitou Springs. On one occasion, they climbed they scaled Red Mountain. Imagine someone with tuberculosis trying to scale a mountain that's almost at a 30 to 60% incline or elevation.
Mike Maio:The elevation up there is about 8,000 feet. Once they got to the top, Elmo was so enthralled by the beauty and splendor of Manitou and the surrounding mountains, including Pikes Peak, that she made an announcement to Hildebrand that upon her death, wanted to be buried at the top of Red Mountain. The story takes several to list. She finally passed away on 12/04/1898. Mister Hildebrand fulfilled her wishes.
Mike Maio:He gathered up a funeral party of about 12 individuals. They dug a gravesite. You can imagine what it's like digging through a grave site made entirely of granite. They buried her, put her to rest, but fast forward this story to 1911 when the company decided to build an incline that was in direct competition with the Manitou Incline. So they decided to build this second incline in Manitou to the top of Red Mountain.
Mike Maio:As the construction crew gets to close to the summit, they discovered that there was a sec there was a grave site in the middle of the right of way. So the managers of that project at the time directed the employees to relocate her grave site to the south end of the summit of Red Mountain, where her body remained intact up until 1929 when a major rainstorm struck Manitou Springs. The rainstorm was so intense that it washed some of her remains down along the western slope of Red Mountain. So as the story goes, there were some boys from Texas who were exploring and hiking on Red Mountain when they discovered the remains of Emma Crawford. They found her skeletal remains, her skull, and also the nameplate that was attached to her coffin, and that's how local officials were able to identify her remains.
Mike Maio:So the boys, being the boys they are, who were between eight and 10, carried these remains down into town. They're kind of flashing these things around. The town constable, who was serving as the town's law enforcement officer, found out about that and took custody of Emma's remains. Well, he didn't know what to do with it. She had no surviving heirs or beneficiaries or even kinfolk here in Manitou Springs.
Mike Maio:Nobody knew how to locate these people, nor did Emma have a cemetery deed authorizing her burial on the top of Red Mountain. So what this constable did was store the remains in the basement of City Hall for four years up until 1932. Manitou City Council then at that point passed a resolution authorizing her reinterment at the town cemetery known as Crystal Valley Cemetery, which is located on the Eastern edge of Manitou. So Emma was not buried in one or two different places, but three different locations here in Manitou Springs, and that's what makes her story intriguing.
Lauren Ferrara:Woah. Okay. So you should have a history podcast about Manitou Springs. I was like, this is and that is so much more because I cut you know, I know the story, but not in that kind of, like, detail with all the little extra I didn't know the It was pretty young. Closer we Yeah.
Lauren Ferrara:We're just kinda, like, scooting towards you.
Mike Maio:This refined version is that there was a raised one. They washed her remains down at the side of Red Mountain, and her remains are continuing to wash down the southerly to down the fountain. So
Carly Ries:Alright, you guys. Let's take a quick break to talk about our amazing sponsors, starting with Vanguard Aesthetics. Lauren and I went in for our Visio appointment last week, which is a skin consultation that uses an advanced imaging system to evaluate the surface and subsurface health of your complexion. And let's just say it immediately turned into a competition. Turns out nothing bonds to people like a machine photographing every sunspot you've ever collected.
Carly Ries:We walked out with the actual marching orders for the next few months, and it looks like microneedling is in my future. So if you're curious about this, book your own busy appointment at Vanguard Aesthetics today, and that link is in our show notes. And we've talked about this before. We will not stop talking about it until it happens. And then once it happens, we'll talk about it again because we just love the Rocky Mountain Women's Film Festival happening October sixteenth through the eighteenth right here in Colorado Springs.
Carly Ries:It's three days of documentary, narrative short, and animated films celebrating the drive, spirit, and diversity of women. Anyways, it doesn't stop when the credits roll. There are postponed conversations, filmmaker forums, parties, and q and a's, so you can go to enrich your mind, but also it's great for networking. All the details are in our show notes. We cannot say enough great things about the Rocky Mountain Women's Film Festival.
Carly Ries:And lastly, Core Collective has been with us since the beginning. We absolutely love them. I had something I wanted to say about them, but I'm gonna go rogue because I woke up this morning to a text talking about how awesome Core was and how sore my friend was. And this is not an uncommon text. I have had quite a few of these.
Carly Ries:Lauren has continued to tell me over and seasoned Lauren who has been doing Pilates for over a decade has been so sore recently. I don't know what's in the water, but everybody's just sore in all the best ways, myself included. Core Collective is the place to go if you want a great workout, great instructors, and just a great community. You just feel the workout in the best way possible. And if you use the code Springs and Things, all caps, no spaces at checkout, you can get three classes for just $30.
Carly Ries:You guys, that's $10 a class. That is wild. It is the best place. Be sure to go to their website. That link is in our show notes as well.
Carly Ries:Well and there there's still part of me that's stuck on the fact that it's middle of a day on a Tuesday. We're in the middle of a lightning and thunderstorm, and you locked us in the museum that is haunted. So because you shut down the museum today. So still kind of hung up on that little note. But you were saying the papers were all were all over the floor, and it's kind of inexplicable.
Carly Ries:Are there any other stories in town where things happen and nobody seems to really understand why?
Mike Maio:Well, there is one story involving the arcade. And as that story goes, people who used to wander from the bars late at night would pass through the arcade, which is one of the oldest gaming rooms in the country. So as they would walk through the arcade, they people would look at surround the window fronts surrounding the stores, and as they looked into the glass windows, they would notice the reflection of a thin, tall man. When people turned around to look, there wasn't anyone there. And so it's kind of like a Slender Man story.
Mike Maio:Another story, and I've actually heard these things happen, but if you'd on some nights, on a warm summer night, if you listen very intently and direct your attention to the western edge of town, about 01:00 in the morning, you'll hear gunshots. And so these gunshots are supposed to be coming from robbers, you know, highwaymen who would rob people as they enter town, but I have personally heard these gunshots in the middle. And, you know, it was one occasion when I heard these gunshots on four successive nights in a row, and then they mysteriously disappear.
Lauren Ferrara:Carly, should we set up a studio here in Manitou? Hard Pass.
Carly Ries:And I would also just very much like to thank all of you for scheduling this interview during in the middle of the day and not at 08:00 at night, because I would have already been out the door. Okay. Well, so I'm gonna whittle it down to just you guys. Has anything happened on these tours before that have been hard to explain?
Mike Maio:Well, not as long as I've been involved with the tours. I I did worked on three of these tours, oh, from about 2015 up through '18, and, no, there was not anything unusual other than grumpy Manitouids who don't like people walking through their front yard, and but, they're pretty scary individuals. We won't name any name.
Carly Ries:So what is the common reaction people have? Are they just totally into the history? Are they scared?
Sam Driscoll:Yeah. No. People love being on the tours, especially families that end up bringing their children along. They have a great time. You know, the children get really, really involved with it.
Sam Driscoll:They love just seeing the ghosts and listening to stories and hearing, you know, these things from Manitou history, a place where they live or live around that they never knew existed before that night. Or if they had, they hadn't gone into as much detail about it. I mean, most people have heard about Emma Crawford, but like Manitou Mike was saying, they don't know the full in-depth story of it as well as they could.
Carly Ries:They think it's like a boxcar race down the avenue. Have you
Mike Maio:ever seen anybody or experience anyone experience genuine terror on these Ghost Tours? I mean, after all, they are friend family friendly.
Sam Driscoll:Sure. I had one year where I was playing Robert Rattlesnake James, also known as the homicidal hairdresser. He he ended up murdering it was either five or six of his wives for the insurance money. One of his wives, he ran he he broke the brake lines on her car right over here on what is it? 24 up in the mountain pass here.
Sam Driscoll:She miraculously survived just long enough for him to end up dreading her in the bathtub. He he got the name rattlesnake because he borrowed a couple of rattlesnakes from a friend of his, the rattlesnakes' names, Lightning and Lethal, and tried to kill one of his wives of rattlesnakes. Rattlesnakes were the friendliest little guys and didn't wanna didn't wanna bite her. So he failed there, but kept the name. But no.
Sam Driscoll:When I was playing that character, I definitely had a lot, a lot of kids, and even some adults who were like, oh, this guy's crazy. Like, this guy I I know he's an actor, but the way he's acting, I don't know.
Carly Ries:But do the kids always
Lauren Ferrara:know it's an actor? No.
Sam Driscoll:No. For sure. Yeah. There are some times where I will see kids doing the classic hide behind their their parents' leg or or or turn away or or not look, and, you know, I always try to leave the act, you know, making sure that these kids aren't traumatized for the rest of their lives.
Carly Ries:Hard sleeping in their parents' bed for the next
Lauren Ferrara:three months. Carly's traumatized from this interview. I feel like if my husband had, like, four or five lives that came to an untimely death before me, probably be a hard pass on on him.
Carly Ries:Yeah. How did he keep getting wives? It's a
Sam Driscoll:good question. He was a very charming gentleman from my understanding.
Lauren Ferrara:Sounds like it. Yeah.
Sam Driscoll:Yeah. No. But, yeah, he he was a hairdresser, and some of his wives were people who ended up working for him as well. One of his wives that he killed was one of his assistants at the time in the in the hairdressing clinic that he had. Yeah.
Sam Driscoll:Crazy, crazy stuff. Yeah. I don't know how he managed to to end up getting all these vibes.
Carly Ries:But Well, so speaking of these stories, do they change every year? Like, if somebody's already done the tours, do can they expect something new, do you do the same thing year after year?
Sam Driscoll:Sure. We like to switch it up every year. I mean, we have our classic. We always talk about Emma Crawford because she's such an important character throughout Manitou history, especially with the coffin races. But there's years where we'll talk about her sister, Alice, or her mother, Madame Jeanette.
Sam Driscoll:This year, we're delving into a couple of new stories that I won't quite give away yet, but they're ones that people who are returning to tours have never heard before. We're excited to finally talk about their histories throughout things as well.
Lauren Ferrara:Alright. Give us all the practical details. When tours run, how do you get tickets, what should you,
Carly Ries:oh, what do you wear
Lauren Ferrara:to something like this? Do you dress up? And how does buying a ticket support the Heritage Museum?
Mike Maio:Well, costume is optional by the public, but we hold our annual ghost tours throughout the month of October. Friday and Saturday nights are the key dates throughout the month, starting on October 2 and ending on October 30. Anyone who is interested in the tours can buy tickets on our website that can be found at manitouspringsheritagecenter.org. And so also I might add that children under the age of 11 get in free. It's a short walk, and it takes usually about an hour or so.
Mike Maio:I think they cover during the course of these tours up to maybe a quarter of a mile or so, which isn't a great distance. Needless to say, the ghost tour walking the walking tour itself is handicap accessible. And but while you wait for the tours to start, you're welcome to come to our museum to enjoy snacks, coffee, soft drinks, so on and so forth, and also to enjoy our exhibits here that we have at the museum.
Lauren Ferrara:And I so I just I read this book over the summer. I think it was called Bad Girls of the American West, and it was about, like, women outlaws and murderers and stuff. So I love all this stuff.
Carly Ries:I know you do. That's what you the yin and yang. We're, like, the total opposite. So we are excited about this. If people wanna buy tickets now, like, when can they start buying tickets even though the tours don't start until October?
Mike Maio:Yeah. The the tickets are currently on sale on our website at manitouspringsheritagemuseum.org. You can access directly through the website, or you could just simply call us here at the museum to make your reservations. But the preferred way is reserving your tickets on the website. Also, you can access the ticket site through our Facebook page.
Mike Maio:That's the Manitou Springs Heritage Museum, and so you can access it through one or two routes. Now that website address again is manateespringsheritagecenter.org, but our Facebook page is Manitou Springs Heritage Museum. This was due to a name change that we experienced several years ago, and we never had the website address changed.
Carly Ries:We'll include those links in our show notes, but even get here a few minutes early because we're sitting in the museum right now, and there's so much to look at. There's so much history. Like, I feel like I could spend hours in here just reading everything you have. I yeah. This is just mesmerizing.
Carly Ries:So so much to do besides just the ghost tours.
Lauren Ferrara:Okay. So speaking of reading, you seem like you have a good book recommendation of, like, Colorado history? What's
Sam Driscoll:a book that we could read
Lauren Ferrara:to learn more about? All kinds of good stuff.
Mike Maio:Well, we have several books in our bookstore. We do have a museum store here at our museum. One of my favorites involves Fred Barr. It's a book that was authored by Eric Schwab. He's a local adventurer, and he wrote a book about Fred Barr, who maintained a concession at the top of the incline.
Mike Maio:So after riding your incline, you can rent a burrow from Fred Barr and continue your journey up the slopes of Pikes Peak on a burrow. That is one of my favorites. Mr. Swab is an adventurer. You can read about him more in local newspapers.
Mike Maio:He's frequently hiked some of our famous trails here, including the Yeneben Trail and the Bar Trail. He's got a lot of stories to tell.
Carly Ries:I bet. Well, so speaking of favorite things, we warned you guys. We ask all of our guests this this question. We wanna know what is your your pick of the week, whether it's in The Springs or in Manitou. Sam, I'm gonna put you on the spot first.
Sam Driscoll:Sure. I've been really enjoying poor Richards downtown lately. I mean, I've always enjoyed them, but I just find myself going back there week after week, either, you know, that non sponsored. But I I you know, their their pizza's great. You know, I find a lot of joy in the toy store myself, and then the bookstore is always fantastic too.
Lauren Ferrara:You know what? My old co anchor is now the owner of that. So we co we worked together at Fox twenty one, and Joe Cole and his wife now now own Poor Richards. After a good long run by Richard Scorman.
Carly Ries:Yes. Oldie and a goodie. Okay. What's yours?
Mike Maio:Alright. Well, here at Manitou Springs, we're known as a music and art community. My favorite venues include Armadillo Ranch, the Kinfolks, Townhouse, and Manitou's newest venue, the Manitou Springs Heritage Museum. We recently started music here at our museum on Saturday mornings. Also, we feature a band on First Friday art walks, and so I had to get that in there.
Carly Ries:Gotta get the shameless plug in.
Mike Maio:You know, know, you can see many people performing on the streets. We have street performers here in Manitou. It's a fun place to be. There's a lot of music and a lot of fun.
Lauren Ferrara:There's a lot of pressure on Manitou, Mike, because this is such a, like, small, tight community that if you, like, leave somebody out, they're not gonna be happy with you. They're gonna be texting you.
Mike Maio:Yeah. Because it is a small community, we all know each other. So we have to watch what we say and what our kids say. So
Carly Ries:That's that's the big one. You guys, this was so fun. We I I know I'm the scaredy cat, but I I will be getting tricky. Yeah. I'm gonna go.
Carly Ries:I got I gotta go. I gotta go. I didn't you you've convinced me.
Lauren Ferrara:I'll hold you and snuggle you a piece of dick.
Carly Ries:Sing kitty cat socks to me again. But thank you both again for coming on the show.
Sam Driscoll:Yeah. Thank you for having us. This has been lovely to talk about the ghost tours this year.
Mike Maio:Yes. Thank you, Carly. We appreciate both you and Lauren to host this podcast. And also, again, we'd like to thank Theater of the R and Sam Driscoll for collaborating and partnering again with us this year.
Carly Ries:It's been great. And listeners, thank you so much for tuning in. As always, please share this episode with a friend, especially one that you want to bring on the ghost tours with you. Subscribe to our show on Apple or Spotify, and leave that five star review. It helps us spread the word to other locals.
Carly Ries:And we'll see you next week on Springs and Things.