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In Ecclesiastes 3:11, we read that God makes everything beautiful in its time. It is comforting to know that nothing is wasted in God's economy, but all of it will be used for our good and His glory. You're invited to join us for poignant conversations and compelling interviews centered on believing for His beauty in every season.
Shannon Scott (00:32)
Well, hey everybody. Welcome back to the Everything Made Beautiful podcast. I'm so glad that you're here today. You, especially those of you who are long time podcast listeners, you are experiencing a first and I'm so excited about this because this really marks the first interview of somebody on the podcast that I didn't know personally and didn't just call up my friend and ask him to be on the podcast.
Kim Pepper (00:58)
friends.
Shannon Scott (00:58)
And so
yes, yes, now we're friends. It's automatic. But today we get to hear from Kim Pepper. And what I'm going to do is I'm going to let Kim introduce herself and tell her story because it's so awkward to have somebody that you don't know personally start reading your bio for everyone. So Kim, first of all, thank you so much for coming on the podcast. And I'm really excited about this conversation today.
Kim Pepper (01:24)
Well, thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. And I feel so special. That's kind of fun. I don't I don't I think I like it better when somebody says something because I don't know what to say about, you know, everything about yourself just sounds like old hat boring. But I guess basically we're going to talk about kind of how I got where I am today. And really, if I just back up, I I was I have been online for
Shannon Scott (01:39)
Right? Right.
Yes.
Kim Pepper (01:51)
over 10 years now and I had started a blog years ago just kind of out of an accountability partner. I was really creative and had all these ideas in my head that didn't ever do them. my kids were in school and I had owned a business with my now ex-husband at the time.
Shannon Scott (02:00)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (02:15)
We had sold it and I kind of was just sitting there, didn't have anything to do. And so God put it on my heart to start a blog, which was funny because I don't write, I'm not a writer. And so I was like, that's, that's funny. But anyway, so I did that for years and long story short, we had moved to a new town. I had been married for 20 years and have three children. And then I went through a blindside divorce, like did not see it coming. Just.
Shannon Scott (02:21)
Mm.
Wow.
Kim Pepper (02:45)
completely out of left field. My kids and I were every, we've just, when people say I didn't see it coming, I mean, it really, you kind of always think can that really happen? And it can, it does. ⁓ And it did, and it happened. And it was actually in the very beginning of COVID. So this all started unfolding in like January of 2020. So COVID hadn't really hit yet when it started, but anyway.
Shannon Scott (02:57)
Right.
gosh.
Kim Pepper (03:13)
going through that year, obviously we're all on lockdown. I'm home with three kids who are, you know, kind of being homeschooled for better. I don't know how to say it. You can't go anywhere. You can't do anything. We all, yeah, we all, and that's not my gifting, not my gifting. So anyway, I just, my life was wrecked. mean, my heart was wrecked. My life was wrecked. I didn't know.
Shannon Scott (03:24)
Right. Yes, we, we all became homeschool parents unwittingly. Yeah. Yeah, me either.
Kim Pepper (03:40)
what anything looked like. And I had been blogging just kind of for fun, you know, and all of a sudden I was like, I need to work. And I was just, I don't know, it was crazy. And I had all these feelings and I couldn't go anywhere and I didn't really know what to say. And so I'm not a writer and you know, I tried to do that thing where you journal every day and I, just couldn't, I didn't want my feelings on paper in words where maybe my kids would read them or
Shannon Scott (03:44)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (04:09)
really
anybody, just felt kind of vulnerable and ugly. And so I started doing a little devotional book and instead of writing in it, I just kind of started doodling and drawing and processing that way. I've always been creative, but in different veins throughout my life. But, and the next thing I knew, I had finished the whole devotional book and like I've never done that because I, that's just not the way I,
Shannon Scott (04:21)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (04:36)
learn and process and I didn't really know that. I never put those two things together, but by drawing and sketching and stuff like that through the book, I was able to go through the whole thing. So then I moved into kind of an altered book, an old book, and was doing stuff through that and just making art that felt like I was getting my feelings out on paper without telling the whole world what they were. But it made sense to me and it made sense to God and it was this place that we met and really kind of just
Shannon Scott (04:58)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (05:06)
work things out. And it was just this really great space. And so that's kind of how I started doing, I guess, art journaling, which I didn't even know that's what it was called, but I just was doing what worked, you know? And so fast forward a couple of years, I ended up getting remarried, was not looking for that. That was a whole nother God thing. And I got remarried and my kids and I moved to where my husband lives now.
Shannon Scott (05:08)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (05:32)
just felt like it was time to give up the parts of my business that I had developed in that timeframe out of kind of a knee jerk reaction to just need to work. They weren't true to what I really would wanted to do and they were good, they were great, they were a lot of fun. They served me and my family really well, but I felt a shift. And so I just felt God kind of pulling me back into that art journaling of like, now let's...
because I was doing it more to process stuff just behind the scenes. And so I started kind of doing it and looking around and looking for people like me that ⁓ were combining that faith and creativity. And it was I didn't wasn't finding a lot of it. And so I thought, OK, well, maybe I need to do this more. And then that's kind of where God just turned my entire business around and pushed me into this.
Shannon Scott (06:04)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (06:28)
space that I'm in now and I love and it's been so great.
Shannon Scott (06:29)
Yeah. You have said that.
that the art and you call it doodling. And so maybe explain for people, so are you an artist? And so, whereas I am a writer and that feels safest and most comfortable to me, for you, you're going, I'm doodling. So are you like drawing masterpieces? Is it abstract? Are you just naturally given toward art? Because if somebody's listening and they're going,
I can't draw anything. I can't draw a stick figure. So this isn't for me. That's not really what you're saying. This creativity is what you want people to be sitting in and what their creativity is. Would that be accurate?
Kim Pepper (07:15)
Yes, so I have a hard time calling myself an artist because I do think of other people's art that's going on someone's wall and that's not what I'm doing. I have always been artistic. That has always been my bend and I've never been historically a writer. I took art classes in high school and stuff like that, but that's as high as far as it went.
Shannon Scott (07:36)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (07:40)
There are so many ways to do this. And I think that's the beauty of it is it is God just meets you where you are, you know, I mean, and the truth is you didn't become a good writer the first time you wrote something on it, you know, a word on a page. It's a it's a practice and in anything you do is like that. So it's kind of finding that that rhythm of what works for you. And so some people are abstract, some are very literal. I usually just sit down and sometimes I'm
Shannon Scott (07:47)
Yeah.
Right.
Kim Pepper (08:09)
processing what a scripture said and I am sketching or drawing and I do have a natural bend to it but I also work at it and get better and I'm definitely not the most talented girl in the room. I mean I will say that all day long and I don't mean it in a demeaning to myself way it's just the truth. know a lot of what I do is mixed media so you're ripping up paper and you're throwing down some paint and it's just it's not anything
Shannon Scott (08:34)
Hmm.
Kim Pepper (08:37)
That's like brain surgery or rocket science. know, it's just, it's the act of.
Shannon Scott (08:40)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (08:46)
getting lost and putting something on a page and having that conversation with God while you're doing it and letting him talk to you and listen to you and kind of make the next move for you. And it's just this place where everything else kind of goes away. I'm sure if you get in that writing flow, everything else, you know, goes away and you're just going and it's the same thing. It's just a different outlet.
Shannon Scott (09:02)
Yeah. Yep. Yes.
Yeah, I often describe writing to people because I do a lot of things and most of them aren't writing. And so I describe to people that I literally have to almost get in a different brain to write, if that makes sense. cannot, I can multitask, write things that don't reflect the deepest parts of my soul. ⁓
Hey, we need you to write this promo for whatever or so and so needs you to edit this thing. I can do that. But if I need to write the things of my soul, it's, it's definitely a different brain space that I'm not multitasking in. And the thing that stuck out to me is that you said that art in the format you're using it in became this safe space where you could truly talk and truly listen.
So what does it look like to listen to God through creativity? Because a lot of people and a lot of people watching and listening to this podcast have been taught like I was for so long and I wouldn't even say overtly but maybe this was the kind of covert message that was coming is that in terms of a devotional time you read the Bible or sit in silence
You don't doodle or do art things and find that as a place where you can listen to God. So what does it look like to listen to God while you're expressing creativity?
Kim Pepper (10:44)
So I think about it like when you go, I'm not a teacher, like as in school teacher, homeschool, all of that kind of mode. But if you think about a classroom of kids, everybody has different learning styles. And so I just think of this as a different learning style. And if you're the kind of person who is trying to sit down and do that textbook that's been taught to us, because I've done it for years, I'm gonna read the Bible and then I'm gonna
Shannon Scott (10:50)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (11:13)
write my takeaway, I'm gonna write out my prayer, and by the time I'm on my second sentence, I'm at my grocery list, my to-do list is here, I've gotta do this for the kids. My brain can't stay focused. And so what happens is while my hands are moving and doing things that just kind of feel good, it somehow locks my brain in to a conversation with God.
Shannon Scott (11:22)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm.
Kim Pepper (11:40)
and a processing. mean, and sometimes the stuff that comes out is incredible. was ⁓ doing an exercise that I ⁓ have a membership of ladies that we do this. And I was doing a lesson that I was gonna teach them and I was doing it for myself first. it was about paying attention to a meal and focusing on every bite and savoring that and lingering and
kind of expressing that through what that looks like creatively, like words that kind of come to your mind or images and things like that. And I kind of thought this exercise is gonna go one way, you know? But you get into that zone and I realized by the end of that little meal, I'm starving. Like that was what came out of it. I'm starving. It was really mind blowing, but there's something that just,
Shannon Scott (12:14)
Hmm.
Wow.
Kim Pepper (12:37)
hyper-focusing on something that isn't words on paper and isn't what you're writing. Because writing always means you're coming up with that, right? Like you have to, and creativity is that way too, but it leaves room for like what, I guess writing does too. But for me, don't do that, so it's a little different. You what's the next step? What am I feeling? What are you saying to me? And it's sort of hard to explain.
Shannon Scott (12:45)
Yeah, yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (13:06)
But it's just a freedom. I don't...
Shannon Scott (13:10)
Yeah, that's good. Well, no, it is because I think, and the, what I wanted to talk to you about today is the, passion that you have for helping women overcome the fear of doing it wrong. And that's where this kind of lands for me. And I think for so many of us, cause even you saying, I don't know if I'm explaining it right is it's like, we've been taught that if we can't
Kim Pepper (13:11)
if that's a really good answer.
Shannon Scott (13:39)
categorize it and put it neatly in a column and set it in this bucket that maybe it's not something to be explored. And so you saying, I don't even know how to explain it, but this is what I experience. I think we as women need to be given permission to pay attention to those places that we can't neatly categorize or define or put into a column.
Because that might be the image of God in us on fullest display, if that makes sense. And so I kind of describe it as paying attention to where I feel most alive, paying attention to what doesn't feel like striving and work for me, but almost feels like the full image and nature of the creator, the Imago Dei in me.
Kim Pepper (14:16)
for sure.
Shannon Scott (14:36)
I'm not even having to work at it. It's almost natural. And so where do you think that fear comes from for most women? Like, why are we so afraid of getting it wrong? Whether that's how we pray or how we do our quiet time and, and honestly, anything that we touch in life, even creativity, where do you think that comes from?
Kim Pepper (14:55)
Sure.
Well, it's all manmade. mean, number one. But I would say ultimately we serve the kindest father creator because he gave all of us different gifts. He gave us all different ⁓ talents and likes. It's what makes this world unique and interesting. And the deal about that is, is he wants to meet us in the gifts he gave us. And so I think we as women have this
Shannon Scott (15:01)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (15:29)
tendency to have everything in boxes, like my faith is here, I'm parenting here, I'm moming here, my job is here, my home life is here. And that's kind of what we're told, and that's what seems like everything needs to happen. And what happens is when you take those boxes and you invite God into each one of them, everything changes. And some of that freedom starts to creep in because the world tells us, okay, well, you need to be producing...
Shannon Scott (15:35)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (15:57)
something that is a value. Well, what, you know, value to this world. It needs to be something you should sell. Oh, you're a writer. You should write books that you can sell. Oh, you're an artist. You need to sell things that can go in a gallery. You know, oh, you can bake. Well, you need to open a bakery. Like we have to stop and say, you know, there's, there's real value in writing something just for God. There's, there is value in
Shannon Scott (16:02)
Yeah.
Mm.
Kim Pepper (16:26)
putting a color wheel on a page because it makes me happy and it gives me some dedicated time to spend with the Lord. And it doesn't matter if anybody sees it. It doesn't matter if anybody likes it. It doesn't matter if it looks good to you or not. That has value, but it's a different, it's where the value lies. That's an eternal value, not a worldly value. And I think that's what trips all of us up is we are trying to follow this, what the world tells us is important and has value and.
Shannon Scott (16:38)
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (16:54)
Looks good or doesn't can be monetized. It's all about this What can you get from it? Well, I mean I always think of this like if you told your husband or your kids I'm feeling kind of dry right now. I'm gonna take about 15 minutes and I'm gonna go in the next room and I'm gonna pray Would anybody say no, that's a waste of your time No, so if I go in the room and I
Shannon Scott (16:55)
can be monetized. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (17:23)
I'm gonna pray, but I'm gonna do it while I'm drawing for 15 minutes. Is that a waste of time? No. Am I gonna go, I'm just gonna go journal. I'm gonna write for 15 minutes and pour my heart out. Would anybody tell me that's a waste of time? It's, you know, how you phrase it, kind of, I guess. It's not a waste of time, but we're trained to think it is. We should be doing dishes. We should be doing laundry. We should be, should be, should be, should be being productive. What's more productive, you know?
Shannon Scott (17:40)
Yeah.
being productive. Yeah.
Well, and we live in a culture.
that has conditioned us certainly in the last decade or decade and a half through Instagram that everything can be perfected and everything can be Instagram worthy. mean, I remember I was listening to a podcast and somebody was saying, remember when there used to be Christian girl quiet times that would be, you know, photographed and put on Instagram for everyone to see. it's, you know, my perfect coffee cup angled just the perfect way in front of my open Bible with all the right things underlined.
in
my journal and all these perfectly you know I remember Bible verse lettering was a whole thing and so it we've been conditioned whether overtly or subvertly to do everything perfectly so when we're engaging with God creatively how do we because I think there's a lot of women that are right now going my gosh
I have always felt so different and maybe even weird because the way my brain works is not in, let me get my coffee cup and my perfect journal and my perfect Bible and do everything perfectly. How do we push back against that when we're engaging with God creatively?
Kim Pepper (18:59)
Mm-hmm.
Well.
love all of that. think those are some fun things to aspire to when you see that. But you also have to remember that the girl who's showing you that she also didn't start there. It's the same thing. mean, I look at look at anything like a major league sport. You know, nobody is on a major league baseball team out of the womb. You know, everything takes time. They're striking out. They are doing all those things until they learn how to do it well.
Shannon Scott (19:21)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (19:41)
And so you're looking at somebody's end when you're at the beginning and those are two different places. So you have to stop looking at it that way. But the main thing I think about that can free that a little bit is who are you doing it for? What are you doing it for? Are you doing it for Instagram or are you doing it for you and your walk? Because that's the difference I think is who's gonna see this? It's a piece of paper. I mean, I'm working on a piece of paper and
Shannon Scott (19:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (20:09)
There is nothing, we don't, I mean, could throw it away, know, like burn it, put it in the trash and let that go. If you don't like it, get rid of it. But one of the things I like to think about is, ⁓ is there anyone that could hear this that would not love to have a journal written or creative?
Shannon Scott (20:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (20:36)
that was their grandmothers or their great grandmothers. And she might think what she did was awful, but I can promise you if I had that in my grandmother, I would think it was amazing. I don't care what it looks like, priceless. But that's...
Shannon Scott (20:38)
Mm. Yeah.
Yes, same. Priceless.
Kim Pepper (20:56)
You if I think about that sometimes, like I don't have grandkids, but I hope I do and hope I have great grandkids. And I hope someday they're flipping through a journal and they're like, wow, this is really cool. This is our faith on paper. And I guarantee the style is going to be a lot different than, you know, it's not going to look that great. And it might look, it might look juvenile. It might look confusing or I don't know. It may end up at a garage sale somewhere. And you know what? I hope it makes somebody's day to find this junk journal.
Shannon Scott (21:11)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (21:25)
10 years from now for a dollar in a garage sale and it gives them inspiration. I mean, you put it on paper and what happens to it isn't your business. It's God's. That's just not your business. It's not about the end product. It's about what's happening between your head and your heart and that piece of paper. It's not really about the paper. So I think if you have to look at it differently.
Shannon Scott (21:25)
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, that's good. Yeah.
Yeah.
You know,
yeah, you, you talked in the beginning about having gone through that divorce in 2020 and we kind of blew past that. But I mean, that had to be an intense season of grief, especially when it's a blind sighting kind of event like yours was when you were engaging creatively during that grief season. Did you struggle with the narratives of
this is terrible or I'm doing it wrong. ⁓ because I think about the woman who might after this podcast go, okay, I'm going to give this a shot. don't even really know what I'm doing, but I'm going to give this a shot. And if she's struggling with that inner narrative of
Okay, I don't think that's what Kim was talking about. I think maybe you need to pursue something different. Like a lot of us will get stuck there, especially I am a performance based acceptance person. That's something I have to consistently crucify about my walk with God. Like, nope, I can't earn my way into this. I can't perfect my way into this. So
How do you move through that in grief when it wasn't perfect and Instagram worthy or it was quote wrong, whatever that random standard is that we're applying to things? And how do women press through it not looking like exactly they might have imagined it would look and not quitting?
Kim Pepper (23:20)
Yeah, I think that's a good question. So I will tell you for me, I think a lot of people staring at a blank page is really intimidating. I mean, I know it is probably for a writer too. You're like, where do I even start? It's a blank page. And that blank page can be a million things or nothing. You know, it can make you just close the book, right? And so I think like what for me, the way it started was I did have a devotional book, but instead of writing words, I was drawing pictures.
Shannon Scott (23:28)
Yeah. Yeah, it is.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (23:48)
I just was trying to picture words in my mind that made sense to me. How do I work this scripture out? And scripture's a great place to start. I mean, it puts you in God's word. You're gonna try to process that scripture. What does that look like? Does that look like a light bulb? Is that a dove? Is that ⁓ people holding hands? What does that look like for me? Is that a bucket spilling over? What is the imagery there? And I think if you...
Shannon Scott (23:57)
Yeah.
Mm.
Kim Pepper (24:15)
So don't just open to a blank page and be like, OK, now how do I put my feelings on this page? So I would say a couple of things are limit your time. Give yourself 15 minutes. Don't think you have to fill up an hour. Limit your supplies. So get some colored pencils. Get a watercolor palette. Get some markers. Whatever it is you have on hand, whatever you are comfortable with, because everybody has a different mediums that they like, and limit it.
Shannon Scott (24:20)
Right.
Mm. Mm.
Kim Pepper (24:43)
You know, don't sit in your craft room with 5,000 things, limit it. And then sit with a small space. So don't use a big piece of paper, a book that's, you know, even eight and a half by 11, go small, go four by four, three by three little book. Like I have a little book somewhere, where is it? I don't even know. I don't know where it is. And so limit what you're gonna, you know, what you're gonna do.
Shannon Scott (24:46)
Right.
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (25:12)
And that lets your brain kind of not have to process as many different variables. And so all it is is you and that page and take scripture, open your Bible, read a couple of verses, draw. Maybe it's one word, maybe it's a word and you're just gonna decorate the page around it. But just where you get into that doodling or that drawing page, it doesn't have to be anything. Maybe you're just gonna put some colors on a page. This verse feels...
Shannon Scott (25:17)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Pepper (25:39)
red it feels angry to me you know start seeing things in a color and there's just little different ways that you can do it just to start and you're really not making anything. That has to be.
Shannon Scott (25:42)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (25:54)
I mean, what would it be perfect? mean, you're not copying something. This is yours. It just looks the way that you make it and it is what it is. I don't know if that gives you freedom, but that's kind of what I think. Those are some things that you can do to reduce that anxiety of a blank page. Yeah, there is no right way.
Shannon Scott (26:00)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah.
Right. How do I do this right? Yeah. Well,
and, you, you have said that you needed a way during your divorce to process the grief you were feeling that didn't feel like you were ripping yourself open on a page with words. And, know, often I think it was Ernest Hemingway, maybe that said, you know, writing's easy. All you do is sit down and open a vein.
Kim Pepper (26:37)
Yeah
Shannon Scott (26:40)
And it's true sometimes there is something visceral that that
especially when you're in grief might be a little too close for people. That might be just a step too far. So do you think there is an aspect, I've often said that I think about the character of God like the facets of my diamond and my wedding ring of when you turn it different ways and different aspects of it catch the light you see something that you didn't otherwise see. So do you think that's true with creativity and the way that God meets us through visual expression ⁓ that might even be
different than he does with words. What can that creativity access in us in a way that sometimes words can't?
Kim Pepper (27:26)
think it just uses a different part of my brain. it, there's something, because I go back to those teaching styles and learning styles and there's something about the ability to get lost that keeps me focused, if that makes any sense. I, as I'm, I just,
Shannon Scott (27:29)
Mm.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (27:55)
for me, I can't.
I can't take a Bible verse and reword that Bible verse. That's not my gift. Some people can take this and they can write this beautiful paragraph about what this, like that's not how I see it. The same thing, I'm not bad cook, but I don't enjoy cooking. I don't like to open my pantry and go, I have this, this, and this. I'm gonna whip up this meal. That's not a gift.
Shannon Scott (28:14)
Hmm.
yeah i do not know how people do that. that the poor
scott family they have never experienced that. i hope my kids marry people who can cook because that has not been part of their life.
Kim Pepper (28:31)
I'm like.
can actually cook something if you tell me what to cook, but I don't have the gift of saying we have this, this and this and it goes together. I open the pantry and like, we don't have anything we need to order out. I don't wait, don't want spaghetti. Yeah, it's full, but we have nothing to eat. Nothing. There's nothing to eat here, but it's kind of the same people that that some people have that gift. They can look in that pantry and see 20 different meals for me. And some people will look at scripture and they'll see song. They'll see music lyrics.
Shannon Scott (28:42)
Yeah. Right. Right. The pantry is full, but we have nothing.
Yeah.
Yeah,
yeah.
Kim Pepper (29:04)
and they want to cry out and some people see art and some people see words and it's truly, I think, goes back to the gifting that God put in us. He made us all different. I think about some of the earliest writings in scripture talk about creativity, about the artisans that he brought together to build the temple. And there's people who are gifted with wood and there's people who are gifted with stone and there's people who are gifted builders and there's people who are gifted
Shannon Scott (29:21)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (29:33)
at sewing and they are sewing the curtains and the linens and everybody has a different gift. if you can, that's how you can connect with him. But I just don't think a lot of times we invite him into that space and really actually put those things together. And so.
Shannon Scott (29:49)
Yeah, that's good.
Yeah,
I mean, I hear you saying it's not let me do my quiet time with God and then go do X, Y, and Z. It's what has God gifted you with? What are the gifts he gave you? And inviting him into the expression of those gifts is how you meet with him and maybe experience him in a way you never have before. Rather than doing what we do as women and compartmentalizing everything and filing everything. Even if we're filing it,
in beautiful folders. If we're not inviting God into that, we're missing something in the way that we can commune with him. Would that be fair to say?
Kim Pepper (30:31)
Absolutely.
mean when I get sit down to create it is this place where everything fades away and I'm I can focus on what I'm doing like creating but when God's invited into it, it's really more a conversation and it really There is some way that my mind doesn't wander anymore Whereas if I was doing a Bible study just and I've done those and I've done them well at certain times in my life, but
Shannon Scott (30:53)
Mm.
Kim Pepper (31:02)
My mind wanders really quickly, but it doesn't when I do this. And I think everybody has that something, whether it is art or scrapbooking or baking or sewing or writing, you know, everybody's got that something. It's just putting the two together.
Shannon Scott (31:05)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's good. Well, I think about there's a girl that I work with and the way that I would describe you and the way I would describe her, there are people, if we think about kind of the leadership training that I'm certified in, we call it voices. So if we think about the primary voice God has given us, there's a whole group of the population who are first voice creatives.
And that means that the way God has intrinsically wired them is toward creativity first. That isn't my natural wiring. My natural wiring is toward the nurturing of people first. And so this girl that I work with, she is a delight. She is so creative. And during meetings, she is always doodling.
And if you just look at it at face value, it could seem like, why is she always so checked out every time we're meeting? But when I hear you talking, I'm like, it's because she's checked in. And the way she has, I don't even know if she realizes the intentionality behind it, honestly, Kim. I think she realizes if I'm going to listen and take in what's happening,
Kim Pepper (32:21)
She's checked in. ⁓
Probably not.
Shannon Scott (32:41)
I have to be doing this with my hand and making, don't, we can't even see what she's doing, but I'm really aware that if we just take it at face value, it looks like she's distracted when actually she has intuitively figured out how to harness in order to lock in, I need to be doodling. I think back to my grandmother, my grandmother would not get on a phone call.
where she did not have, I mean, she would have called it a scratch pad. And you could go and look at my grandmother's scratch pad with the, beside the phone and it was covered with designs and she'd have never told you she was an artist. She'd have never told you she was creative. That wasn't even something that that generation talked about really, but
Kim Pepper (33:24)
now.
Shannon Scott (33:29)
now that i hear you talking i'm like god's bringing all these things back to my mind he's bringing it back to me with my son he draws and doodles and all of his schoolwork had some sort of design on it it's like we need you to answer these questions why are there all these doodles all over it well it was the way that he was locking in i'm literally having epiphanies as you're talking
⁓ And you know the title of this podcast
Kim Pepper (33:54)
Yeah, and it's unfortunate because people
Shannon Scott (33:57)
is about beauty. It's everything being made beautiful and this is one of the ways that God has gifted so many people to make beautiful things.
Kim Pepper (34:08)
Yeah, it's not for everybody. But I mean, I think about that in school so specifically that, you know, kids would get in trouble. I don't know if they still do get in trouble. Like pay attention. Why are you that is how they're paying attention. You know, I mean, that's exactly right. That's that's the only reason they're hanging on by a thread is because they're doodling. And I wasn't like that. I wasn't a big dude. My husband's like that. If he comes home with meeting notes and he has drawings and stuff on the side. And I think it drives people crazy because they don't understand. think you're
Shannon Scott (34:10)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's good.
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (34:37)
being rude or you're checking out, like some of us are just wired that way. That's just kind of how we have to engage our creativity in it to kind of make everything else fall away because I mean, my brain's like a squirrel. You know, I can think of 50 million different things and if I don't harness it in the right way, I don't know what you just said. I don't know what I just read. I don't know, you know, so I think that's kind of what it does. It's like this funnel that just brings everything into focus and ⁓
Shannon Scott (34:42)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (35:06)
And that's what it does in my quiet time. If I come in and I sit in my office and I create with God that everything just funnels in, it shuts it all down. But it doesn't do that when I try to sit with that coffee cup and have a cute little Bible study time. ⁓
Shannon Scott (35:14)
Yeah. How do you
yeah.
Well, and you think back to, you know, the, the, you know, mother hen of so many of us, Beth Moore, and it's like, she had these.
robust Bible studies with all this homework and you you and so many women did amazing with that but you you've started to hear over the years of these women that were like I want so badly to engage with this but I can't do five days of homework and so I have failed as somebody studying the Bible.
Kim Pepper (35:52)
Because that's what we've had historically and obviously, Beth Moore's amazing. But if it's not your learning style, then you walk away feeling like a failure. Like, I don't get faith. can't understand the Bible. I'm a bad Christian. I'm a bad person. And then that's just not true. It's just not true. But you can see how, I mean, that's not a far leap to think that because everything that we've been given is a book, a Bible study.
Shannon Scott (35:57)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah.
huh.
Kim Pepper (36:22)
that is words,
Shannon Scott (36:22)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (36:23)
that you read it, you respond to it with words. like, we're just not all cut from that same cloth. We're just not. It's so awesome when you figure out that you're not and it's okay. And there are other ways to have really in-depth, amazing conversations with God. And He can reveal stuff to you.
Shannon Scott (36:32)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (36:50)
through art, through creativity, through song and music or whatever it is, dancing, different people have different things. I don't always wanna say creativity, that's what it is for me, but it's different for everybody. And obviously that works super well for Beth Moore and a lot of those people. But it's like you said, the people who walk away from those things, bored, distracted, you aren't bored with God, you aren't bored with scripture.
Shannon Scott (36:54)
Yeah. Yeah.
Kim Pepper (37:18)
You're not on the outside of it. You're just, you haven't found the right conduit for you yet.
Shannon Scott (37:27)
Ooh, that's so, conduit's a really good word. ⁓ You know, one of the things that we really want to focus on on this podcast is the truth that God is making everything beautiful in its time. And I do give the caveat of, scripture doesn't say that everything will be made beautiful in my opinion or in my estimation, or when I look at it, I may not, I may not ever go, wow, that's beautiful.
Kim Pepper (37:30)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (37:55)
but God will make it beautiful to him as the artist in its time. How have you seen those seasons of deep grief in your life and the creativity that has been uncovered in you? How have you seen God redeem some of those broken things and make them beautiful?
Kim Pepper (38:14)
That's a pretty easy one for me. I remember at the end when this divorce was coming to be final, I remember kind of hearing this thought.
where I felt like God was like, you know what, what it, cause it doesn't make sense. This doesn't make sense in the world's terms because God loves family, God loves marriage. But sometimes that does not work out in this world. And I don't know why, and I, I'm not for it. I don't think it's good in, in, in face value, but I felt like God said, what if you can serve more women divorced than you can married?
Shannon Scott (38:38)
Hmm.
Right. Right.
Oooooh!
Kim Pepper (38:57)
And I was like, well, don't know if I want to be the poster child for that, but okay, what if, you know? And the truth is, I think that's what's happened because the road I was on, while it was kind of faith-based and whatever, wasn't serving women as directly as I feel like I do in what I'm doing now. It wasn't not serving women, it was just different. And so I've watched him walk that out.
Shannon Scott (39:01)
Fair. ⁓
Kim Pepper (39:26)
in a massive way. I mean, I could go on and on about the women that I've met in this industry and ⁓
I don't ever want to say that I'm thankful for my divorce because I have three children and divorce has its tentacles that reach everybody around it and it's not fun and I don't wish it on anybody. But I look at my life right now and it is so beautiful. And I say that just so wholeheartedly. genuinely am. just sometimes when things get ripped away from you, it is so good.
Shannon Scott (39:45)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (40:07)
And I'm so grateful. I'm so grateful. I mean, I would not have thought I was going to say that, you know, in 2020, but I can sit years later and say, my life looks so different. I have let so much go that it's just not important.
I just, I genuinely feel happier. I feel more thankful. And I do feel like all of that happened so that I could serve more women, so that I would serve my children better. ⁓
I just think I'm a better person.
Shannon Scott (40:56)
Did you struggle with what so many of us grew up with, which is without saying it overtly, I really do think I grew up with this assumption that divorce is the unpardonable sin. Nobody would have ever said that. And people have said, we know that really the only quote unpardonable sin is unbelief.
It's not these other things, but I was conditioned to believe that premarital sex, divorce, like these are things that you just really don't ever fully come back from them. They'll always be this blight on your quote record. And so I think there are women listening, Kim, who have believed that staying married
Kim Pepper (41:25)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (41:53)
honors God and divorce is is something they can't come back from. What would you did you struggle with those ⁓ unintended or even intended messages and evangelicalism and what would you say to the woman listening who's like a divorce just doesn't get to be an option?
Kim Pepper (42:19)
This is super touchy subject and I know everybody has different opinions on it. number one, what I'll say is you don't know until you know. So it's so, so, so super easy to sit there and say what you think someone should do or shouldn't do until you're walking in those shoes. We know that. Judging is, you know, we're not supposed to judge, but we do. so number one, if you've not been there, you have no clue.
Shannon Scott (42:22)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah, it's good.
Kim Pepper (42:48)
Definitely understand that I have had moments where I'm like, who do I think I am? ⁓ Teaching women how to connect with God when I'm divorced. Like she couldn't even keep her own marriage together. How is she gonna be? You know, I feel like it disqualifies me from being in any kind of, you know, ministry type. I don't know if I'm calling me a ministry role, but you know what I mean? Like in a teaching capacity, what do I have to offer? You know, I'm a failure.
Shannon Scott (42:57)
Mmm.
Mm.
Mm.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (43:17)
My marriage failed. And that's a really, really hard one that you can only work out through prayer. And that's kind of some of the freedom that I just was in such close tune with God in that space. I mean, the day that it finally, everything finally was over and he walked out for good and filed for divorce the next week, I heard God, I went for a run.
and I'm not really a runner, but I did run during that time because it was COVID and you couldn't do anything else. And I needed to like let it out. So I ran, but I heard him on a run say, good job. You did exactly what you asked. I asked you to do because I tried so hard to save my marriage and it just wasn't salvageable. And sometimes it's just not. And I didn't have a choice and it wasn't. And I really felt like I was
Shannon Scott (43:46)
Hmm. Yeah.
Kim Pepper (44:11)
so on my knees that whole time that I heard God say, you did it girl. And this was before, and then I went home and then he left and then he fell for the voice. I heard him on the way home that day. I knew it was happening. I knew it was gonna happen. And I heard him say, you did what I asked. And I think that's all you can do, you know, in a marriage is you do what you're asked. And sometimes you're asked to stay and see things through. And sometimes you just say, God let me know when and you'll know when and. ⁓
Shannon Scott (44:29)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (44:41)
It's like I said, I don't think God wants marriage and an divorce. That's not the way he designed it. I did so much studying and researching on marriage and divorce and family and why would this happen and how could this happen? And we live in a fallen world. We don't live in heaven. And so I think you have to give yourself some grace. You have to give yourself some grace. Like this world is fallen and your life is not exempt from that. ⁓
Shannon Scott (44:45)
totally.
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah, it's good.
Kim Pepper (45:10)
had a friend tell me, this was so good. She told me we were talking about this and she had heard this from her father-in-law. had, I don't remember now he was, I know. She had had some stuff happen with her child when he was born and she was sad and upset about some of the difficulties that were happening. And her father-in-law said, you know, sometimes you have to look at this and not say, me? But why not me? You know, why not? I I don't deserve to have.
Shannon Scott (45:34)
Mm. Mm.
Kim Pepper (45:39)
the perfect life or marriage, none of us do. I mean, it deserves a dirty word, you know? And so I have to all, a lot of times just remind myself, why shouldn't I be the one who's divorced? Like what it's so special about me, there's nothing. ⁓ All you can do sometimes is take the cards you're given and do the best you can with them. And so I think the devil wants us to feel disqualified from.
Shannon Scott (46:05)
Yes.
Kim Pepper (46:06)
Sharing and speaking out and being in a mission field of any kind because you're divorced or you had premarital sex or you're You did this thing in your past and that's just like lies. I mean just lies They're just lies. There's nobody in this world. That's perfect besides the one who walked which was Jesus and so I Mean look at his followers. Look at the woman at the well Look at the look at all 12 of the disciples. I mean none of them
Shannon Scott (46:13)
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (46:33)
are without sin. None of them are without failures and then Mars and things in their lives that disqualify them. We're all disqualified. All of us.
Shannon Scott (46:33)
Yeah.
So good,
Kim. And I think there's people that feel seen today.
Kim Pepper (46:46)
Well...
Divorce is a beast. It is a deep, deep mourning. I didn't know that until it happened to me that you mourn the life that you thought you were gonna have and it's brutal. ⁓ But one of the things I think that reveals to you too is how dependent you are on maybe your spouse or your checking account or someone else. I realized how much weight I put into all these things when they should have been in God and you know.
Shannon Scott (46:49)
Thank you for being honest. Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (47:19)
All those things can fade away, they can leave you, they can walk away, they can fail you, but God will not. Whether you're married or divorced or sick or rich or poor or whatever, there's only one thing that isn't gonna change.
Shannon Scott (47:24)
Mm.
If you could go back to that version of yourself who was sitting in the wreckage of the thing you never thought would happen to you, ⁓ not wanting to write because you didn't want to open the vein, what would you tell her and what do you know about God's presence in creativity now that you wish you'd known then?
Kim Pepper (47:58)
I really just want to tell that girl it's gonna be okay.
It's really, really simple. God is a thousand steps ahead of you. You're going to take steps that feel like you're taking a blind step off the side of a cliff and you don't know if your foot's going to land and it always is. It's always going to be okay. And it may not look like the way that you want it to, but it's always going to be okay. And it's just like you said earlier, may not be my definition of okay, but it's okay. You know? And I think I wish I would have spent more time
Shannon Scott (48:09)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah, it's good.
Kim Pepper (48:35)
exploring ⁓ that really beautiful way that I found to connect with him. Because what happened was, mean, once I kind of got my head above water, I kind of pushed that creativity aside because I didn't need it as much. It was like therapy, you you stop going to your therapist because you feel better. It was a little bit like that. And I wish I would have maintained it. And I actually, once I got remarried and moved, found myself going back to it, not for the same reason.
Shannon Scott (48:53)
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (49:05)
but still for an outlet. It was a good outlet. just, there was a lot of change going on and I needed to just process stuff, not in the same vein. This time it was more of a gratitude and a joyful and it's still like, okay, how do I get all the balls in the air to work? But it still processed that, because that's what it does. It processes the good and the bad. ⁓ I wish I just had stuck with it and had more continuity with it.
Shannon Scott (49:15)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Mm.
Kim Pepper (49:34)
And I would have said, this works for you, keep doing it.
Shannon Scott (49:35)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, this doesn't have to only be in times of trial or significant change. It's how God has designed you to meet with you. ⁓ Okay, so for the perfectionist who's listening, which I am chief among them, ⁓ what would you tell us?
Kim Pepper (49:43)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (49:58)
how do we release the fear of doing it wrong? What's kind of our, always tell people just take the next right step. And if you take the next right step, it's impossible to end up in the wrong place. So what is the first next right step, even if it's a messy or imperfect one?
Kim Pepper (50:16)
I mean, I think with anything it's just to start, but I think that asking some solid questions is really good. Like what...
What is messing up? What does that mean? Like what would messing up look like to you and what would success look like to you? You know, I think defining what those are because ultimately, what, your drawing's bad? Who said it was bad? All the people in your, yeah, I mean all the people sitting around watching you draw, there's nobody watching you. Nobody's watching you. I mean, you just have to remember you're doing this for an audience of two, you and God.
Shannon Scott (50:41)
Yeah, compared to what?
Mm-hmm.
Kim Pepper (50:53)
You know and really an audience of one and I can't sing to save my soul but I don't think god cares if I'm singing in my car and it's to him and it's praise or you know in the shower or whatever that is he isn't down there going ⁓ gosh if Kim would just sing in tune it would be a lot better he didn't care he does not care. He doesn't I mean and I think that's just you have to just have a mindset change god does not care if you're.
Shannon Scott (51:02)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Kim Pepper (51:21)
drawing looks exactly like someone else's or you know you just he just doesn't care that the the result is not
It's not about what you're putting on the paper. It's just not. You have to let that go because that is not the result. mean, have you ever prayed and somebody said, ⁓ that was a bad prayer. You did that. You did that wrong. know, nobody's gonna do that. This is a prayer on paper. Nobody's gonna tell you you did it wrong. Nobody.
Shannon Scott (51:43)
Nope.
prayer on paper. That's good. So tell people I'll put all this in the show notes so that people can literally click through, but tell people the opportunity they have to connect with you and connect with what you're doing and what you want to provide for women.
Kim Pepper (52:08)
Yeah, thanks. So, I mean, I'm on all the social media, Instagram, Facebook, all that is Kim Pepper Creative, but I have a website, it's kimpepper.com, and I have courses ⁓ about different things that kind of walk you through different projects. I have kind of three main things that I really love. And number one is my membership. It's called the Creative Faith Club, and this is what we do all year long. You can jump in at any time. We have...
different projects that everything points you back to Jesus. It's combining your faith and your creativity. It's an insanely beautiful community of women. The ladies that have been there for a while are lovely. And I pray over the group. We have a live prayer time every week that we pray together and they're just, they're awesome. I love them so much. So that's super fun.
⁓ Another thing that I have is called Faith Fest. And so I started this last year. We're about to have our second year in April. ⁓ And it's a combination of 12 women. And instead of doing an art prompt, like a lot of people do where, you know, everybody do a page on blue and somebody do, you know, use a butterfly, you know, we use scripture, scriptures are prompt. So this year we're looking at Mark 14, three through six about the women who poured out.
Shannon Scott (53:28)
you
Kim Pepper (53:29)
perfume on Jesus as a form of worship and the freedom that comes from that verse. So you're get to see 12 women process that verse artistically. So you get to see kind of behind the scenes, what are they and they explain it, they walk you through it, what they're thinking, what it means to them, why they drew or painted what they did. So you see this one verse.
Shannon Scott (53:39)
Wow.
Kim Pepper (53:52)
12 different ways. I mean, if we had 100 people, you'd see it 100 different ways and that's where you know there's no wrong way. Nobody does it. No two people do it the same. Even if you copy their lessons, you're just going to look different. Everybody's is different because God's Word speaks to all of us individually. So that's FaithFest. It's so fun. It has two free days or you can do the whole lifetime thing where you can keep it. And then I have an artistic advent. ⁓ And usually we I think it's in October.
So that's six ladies and then we take different aspects of the Advent story and walk that out creatively. So you have kind of a different way to walk through the Advent story than you traditionally have had before. So last year was our first year, we're gonna do it again this year. It was so much fun. ⁓ So they're just, they're awesome.
Shannon Scott (54:39)
I love that
you, I love that you're putting some steps, some right next steps, concrete steps for people that they can take to be able to kind of unleash creativity. And I think that's the fear of doing it wrong is I don't know what to do next. And you're essentially saying, here's one of three things or all three things that you can do next to kind of unlock.
this experience with God. And so I just want to say to people listening and watching, if you've felt like a misfit in the world of
devotions, quiet times, bible studies, even women's bible studies in person. and if you're sitting in church on sunday and you're like i'm not a note taker i can't even focus on what the sermon is because i'm so distracted or oversaturated or overstimulated by all the things happening in this sanctuary or auditorium like this might be
an avenue that unlocks something for you in a new way to connect with your heavenly father who has designed you intentionally and specifically and wants to meet with you. So I want to encourage you whether you're like, my gosh, this is me, or you're like, I don't know if this is me. I'm actually so out of touch with myself because I'm so busy taking care of everyone else. I don't even know if this is me taking next step.
Reach out to Kim, follow her on social media, go to her website, just look around. I had so much fun just looking around and going, I didn't even think of things like this. I'm not wired to think creatively. I'm very systematized and very one, two, three, four, and I like my lists and I like my order. And this might be.
Kim Pepper (56:17)
Thanks.
Shannon Scott (56:32)
⁓ breath of fresh air for you if you have felt I guess connecting intimately with God is just not in the cards for me. I just want to rebuke that and push that back and say that's not the case with any human ever. God has designed you to connect with him and this might be a way you can let Kim and her ministry shepherd you into that expression. So I just want to encourage you
Kim Pepper (56:43)
Amen.
Shannon Scott (57:00)
do the work. I'll put all of the information that she just mentioned in the show notes, but I wanted her to be able to explain what is out there and what is available to you. If you're like, ⁓ I'm just, I'm not the person that Lifeways Marketing Bible studies do. They don't work for me. I'm not the person who the sermon notes that our church designs and spends all this money on and gives us on Sundays where they don't work for me. It isn't because you're weird or wrong. It isn't because
⁓ intimacy with God isn't available to you, it just might be that he's designed you to commune with him in a different way than we have. Honestly, we've hijacked it and organized it and fed it to people as here's the right way to do it. And there isn't a right way to do it. So there, the fear of doing it wrong can be set to the side because there's not a wrong way to commune with your heavenly father. So Kim, I just want to say thank you to you for
Kim Pepper (57:43)
Yeah.
Shannon Scott (57:56)
Number one, being so free with your story and stewarding it so well. think freedom comes when we hear somebody else go, hey me, like this happened to me and it wasn't the end of me. And it isn't the end of my usefulness to God because this thing that I've been fed for so long happened and it turns out it wasn't the end of the world. So thank you for your willingness to steward your story well, but also then to funnel that into a way to help other people.
Kim Pepper (58:06)
Yeah.
Well, thanks, it just...
Just the way he's led, I have no, I can take no credit for it. I truly, just how it played out. I mean, he's good, he's kind and you know, so yeah, I hope it helps somebody, because I know what it feels like to feel like the end of the rope or end of your usefulness or any of that is awful. It's just not true. It's just not true. So.
Shannon Scott (58:35)
Hmm.
Well, we're thankful.
Well, thank
you. do want to before we go, I want to ask you the question that I ask all my guests as we end our time together. This is the Everything Made Beautiful podcast and we really like to focus on beautiful things. And so ⁓ my question for you is if you could design your perfect, beautiful day.
What would it look like from start to finish? Sky is the limit. You can do whatever you want. can time travel space and time. Don't have to come into it. What would Kim's perfect beautiful day look like?
Kim Pepper (59:26)
Hehehehe
So I would love to have breakfast with my family. That's one of the things that we like to do. And I have two of them out of the house now. So I really want them back to do that. But when they were little, used to, we always had breakfast, a lot of breakfast on the weekends. And then usually when they were little, I'd give them each a dollar and we'd go hit some garage sales. And that is super fun. So I don't think they love it as much anymore, but this day they would pretend that they did and we would.
Shannon Scott (59:42)
Hmm.
Mmm.
Yes, yes.
Kim Pepper (1:00:00)
Maybe go to
some garage sales and some thrift stores or maybe like a flea market and find some fun old junk to use in the house or in journaling and then maybe come have, you know, just a little bit of afternoon creative time. And then honestly, I love nothing more than to sit with my husband on the back porch and we feed the deer and it's pretty simple. That's it.
Shannon Scott (1:00:27)
Yeah,
that sounds good. We've moved to a cabin in the mountains and now every morning when we get up and look out the window there are 12 deer that are standing in our yard and I told my husband I bet if we started feeding them they'd be here every morning like clockwork. So I haven't done it yet because my dogs go completely ballistic when they see the herd of deer in the front yard but it is tempting to want to start throwing things to them so they'll come around every day.
Kim Pepper (1:00:54)
We do. We're
awful. We feed them. But there's, cause there's about 12, there's a couple of herds, but our dogs will go, we have like a little fence and they're on the other side. So we throw the food over there and the dogs will just be barking at them. And those deer just look at them and they keep eating and then they kind of paw and they, yeah, they kind of huff a little bit, but they still eat. And so, yeah, it's fun. It's the little things, you know, those are just, those are the really, those are the beautiful moments. They truly are. So.
Shannon Scott (1:01:04)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, like why are you yelling?
Aww, that's awesome. Yeah.
Yeah,
for sure. Well, Kim, thank you so much. I wish you the best. I'm so grateful that you came on the podcast and thanks for just kind of cracking open the door to a whole new way to connect with the Lord. I think there are a lot of people that will feel like, ⁓ hey, there may be hope for me yet in this. I don't have to worry about doing it wrong. So thank you.
Kim Pepper (1:01:24)
but I love.
Sure.
So yeah, well,
thank you for having me. It's been so much fun and I just appreciate the opportunity to tell more people about it because I wish I'd have put two and two together sooner. That would have been great. Yeah.
Shannon Scott (1:01:57)
Yeah, for sure. Well,
to those of you listening, we hope you have a wonderful day and don't forget to be on the lookout for the way that God is making everything beautiful around you, but also including you. We will see you next time.