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Circling The Drain is a show about the current state of the music and radio businesses as well as culture in general!
Hosted by John E. Bozeman and Jay Harper along with Jim McCarthy as Co-Host/Executive Producer.
John has had a storied career in music and talk radio, most notably as the Executive Producer for the late and legendary Phil Valentine.
Jay also has has a long career in radio as Announcer, Play-by-Play, Voice and On-Camera Actor. He was also an Artist Rep for MCA records.
Jim McCarthy ALSO has had a tremendous career in radio since 1996 and has since brought his consulting/producing skillset to the podcast world.
Circling the Drain is produced by ItsYourShow.co
Unknown: This has been my
critique of the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame. It is not titled
correctly, right? When you say
rock and roll, who do you? What
do you think of? You think of
leather jackets? You think Keith
Richards, Zeppelin, yeah?
Zeppelin, Deep Purple. Yeah?
Anthrax, metallic
company. Yeah? Paul Rogers,
exactly. That's what Whitney
Houston. Whitney Houston in the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame.
Welcome to a podcast about music
and entertainment before it all
goes down the disposal This is
circling the drain.
Welcome back to circling the
drain, the podcast with John E
Bozeman, Johnny B, that's me.
Jay Harper's over there. Hello,
Jay. That's me. Hiya, Johnny B,
and hello to Jim McCarthy, Jim,
how you doing, brother? Hey,
pretty good. Hey, you know we
were talking about, and we're
gonna include you guys in on
this one. We were talking about
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
up in Cleveland. Cleveland, you
were just there. Were you? I was
just there the first time. How
did you
enjoy your experience? It
wasn't, well, me, it was, it was
under underwhelming. Yeah, it
was, yeah, it was just kind of
like, All right, so that was, we
did that.
How much did that set you back?
I'm sure the ticket is not
cheap. I think
was like 60, maybe 70 bucks for
the both of us to go through. It
was about, you know, two and a
half hour experience. They're
doing a lot of remodeling up
there. I don't want to
completely throw shade on them,
but I mean, it's, yeah, you walk
in and, you know, I'm a drummer.
So they have, I'm sorry, not a
musician, a drummer. Hey, in the
org chart, it's typically the
singer. The singer's got two
girls, or four girls, two on
each arm. The guitar player's
got one a girl on each arm. The
drummer's got one girl, and the
bass player is by himself. Okay,
that's typically how it works.
So, you know, from a drummering
standpoint, the only drums that
I could really see that were set
up as a kit was larses kit from
Metallica, yeah. And you could
tell when somebody sets up a
drum kit who's not a drummer,
and it's like someone is happy,
like, you know, the toms are
not, you know, angled the right
way. They're one Tom's kind of
like, wonky up here, and it's
the other one's down there. And,
yeah, you got you just it's
like, you phoned the scent man.
Well, yeah,
I mean, it's the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame for crying out
loud. Do you think that they
would have a little more respect
for the legacy,
yeah, but you just hit it. See,
this has been my, this has been
my critique of the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame. It is not titled
correctly, right? When you say
rock and roll, who do you what
do you think of? You think of
leather jackets? You think Keith
Richards, Zeppelin, yeah?
Zeppelin, Deep Purple.
Yeah, Anthrax, metallic company.
Yeah? Paul Rogers, exactly.
That's what Whitney Houston.
Whitney Houston in the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame. On top of
that, it's like, oh, here's a
sock that Whitney wore back in
1985 here's the picture of her
wearing the sock with an arrow
pointing towards it. It's like,
cool, great. Yeah, there's a
sock.
You know, Bill Monroe's in there
in the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame. Yeah. I mean, God bless
Bill Monroe, but Dolly's in
there. Why the heck is he in the
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame? No
disrespect to Bill Monroe, well,
no and nollie, no, that, you
know, they could name the
Bluegrass Hall of Fame, the Bill
Monroe bluegrass Hall of Fame.
Yeah, you wouldn't
have David Lee Roth in there.
That would be great, though.
Yeah, what he did make that
bluegrass album. You know,
that's true,
yeah. It is perplexing, man, it
is just a hodgepodge.
Well, it is, I mean, it doesn't
make any sense. If it's going to
be the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame, make it rock and roll.
Don't make it Grand Master
flash, like
Run DMC. I can understand. Well,
they had some Aerosmith
crossover, and they have some
cred. Public Enemy did the thing
with anthrax back in 91 and it's
like, yeah, they were, they were
crossing genres. I mean, that
was fine,
well, and I can see even some
country acts that have some rock
like, you know, Wayland,
Jennings, yeah, Carl played. He
played with Buddy
Holly, you know, Carl Perkins
certainly makes sense. Well, you
know, definitely he's in there,
yeah, but, but some of these
people just do not belong. It's
not the rock and roll, then you
need to call it the Pop Music
Hall of Fame.
Well, they're having a promotion
at the time with Saturday Night
Live, because of the 50th
anniversary, so that a whole
section of the building
dedicated to the musical acts
over the years of Saturday Night
Live, which is pretty cool,
yeah, and that was kind of fun
to look. Had a lot of the skits.
Of course, they had the Blue
Oyster Cult cowbell, Will
Ferrell thing, you know, you
know, those, those things are
kind of okay. That was nice, you
know, cynical. I don't know.
Well, no, I don't think so. I
think, I think because you're a,
you're a rock fan, yeah, and you
totally so I think it's, I don't
know, I've just never been
really all that knocked out with
Rock and Roll Hall of Fame. They
did have a section dedicated to
1984 the year, and that was
pretty cool, because you saw,
like, Prince's stuff right on
display. As you walk into the
room is the frankenstrat. Yeah,
you fact, you sent us a picture,
yeah? But you go up to it and
it's like, oh my gosh, there it
is really great. And I've seen
it in the Smithsonian, yeah, but
I'm, you know, you looking at
it, and you go, this can't be
the real deal. Yeah, I can't see
his family relinquishing that.
But you find out it's a replica,
and it's like, oh, okay, but
they did have actually
selections in another part of
the building that was dedicated
to Eddie Van Halen, like a
speaker cabinet, a couple of his
guitars that were actually from
his personal collection. So
that's pretty that was
pretty cool. Yeah, that's very
cool. So I appreciated that. But
you know, when we go down the
list of people that have not
been inducted into the Rock and
Roll of fame. Yeah, that's
another area where it just gets
here's a few names for you,
Brian. Brian Adams, really? Yes.
Brian Adams is not enough.
Allison chains, not in the rock
and roll of fame.
Dwayne Allman, yeah, that's,
that's a travesty, no. And Greg
almond Yeah, I was gonna say
probably Greg too is probably
not in there. Now are the Allman
Brothers. I do believe the
almond brothers are, but they
also had some, you know, solo
stuff. Greg 38 special is not in
there. What the crap? Yeah.
Bachman Turner overdrive. What a
van that's not in there. Yeah,
that's bad finger. Yeah? Bad
fingers, not in there,
right? We talked about them in
another podcast of what, what
could have been with those guys.
But still, they deserve to be in
there for what they did do.
Yeah, they did have hits. I
mean, they were, they were huge.
They were huge hits. Blue Oyster
Cult is not in there. Oh, wow, I
actually caught you would dig
this. Being a drummer when I saw
them live, I think they opened
for Alice Cooper in Wichita,
Kansas, a young pre teen Johnny
B holds his hand up because the
drummer was throwing drum sticks
out. I caught one, and I had the
drummer from Blue Oyster cults
drumstick that was played and
yeah, and I was gonna keep it
until I went outside and there
was a black dude that was being
arrested for something. And he
said, Oh, dude, man, I love to
have that drumstick. And I said,
Well, it's gonna cost you. And
he we finally agreed to, I think
was 50 bucks. Oh, wow. And he
asked the cop to, he's like,
Man, can you get my wallet? I
can't believe I'm doing this.
And I sold the drumstick for 50
bucks outside the Henry Levin
Arena in Wichita. It's about how
much they go for now,
drumsticks. Oh yeah. Black Crows
are not in there, by the way.
Really, yeah, in the rock and
roll
the band, Kansas is not,
yeah, Kansas isn't in there.
Canned heat.
I love that. I love the music in
that, that guy,
I said, Boy, you know, the song
had so because it sounded real
cool when it started going, I
know, no way, yeah, but Spencer
Davis, group isn't in there.
Well, Rick Derringer, oh, rock
and roll. Come on. Rock and roll
tunes ever. And speaking of him,
Edgar Winter is not in there.
What about John? Johnny's not in
there? Yeah. Johnny winner,
Emerson, Lake, um, Palmer,
really not there. That's
insane. Great about it. But Pink
Floyd's in there,
yeah? Pink Floyd, I think. But
you know, Jay Giles band isn't
in there, yeah. And they should
be,
well, Rush just got inducted
back in 2012 Yeah, yeah. And
that was, like, because the Foo
Fighters, Dave Grohl, I think,
really made a considered effort
to make sure they were included,
and it was a big deal, like,
they pretty much put the hall
and fame on blast, even during
the ceremony, yeah, like, it's
about time you got these guys
in. But not I didn't see one
lick of evidence of anything
with to do with rush inside
that, see,
and that's just that's sacrilege
to me.
I'll admit I don't know the the
process, the methodology for.
Being voted in. I mean, who does
that? How does it happen to you?
Do any either of you know, I
think it's just a panel of
people. Is it a panel? Is it can
you be a member of, you know,
it's like if you're a member of
the ACM or the CMA, you know,
which we can be a member? Well,
sure, you know, then you have
voting privileges. I wonder if
the Hall of Fame is that way.
Well, I'm sure it is. And I just
don't understand, like I said,
with people like Whitney Houston
getting in, or even Dolly, and I
love Dolly Parton agreed.
Or, you know, cooling the gang
is in there, but yet, Emerson
Lake and Palmer is it? I mean,
what is wrong with this picture?
Humble Pie isn't in there.
So to be inducted into the Rock
and Roll Hall of Fame, a
musician or band must become
eligible 25 years after their
first commercially released
recording demonstrating musical
excellence and a significant
impact on the genre, a
nominating committee selects a
slate of nominees, which are
then voted on by an
international body of rock
experts and The public the top
vote getters from the performer
category are then inducted,
while other categories like
musical excellence are selected
by smaller committees. So there
you go.
So that's how it's done, that
the big I use in the
parentheses, rock and roll, Hall
of Fame, yes, while you have
Whitney Houston in there. Iron
Maiden is not that. James Gang
is not in there. Jethro Tull is
not in there. Well,
they were also put up. They also
won Best Heavy Metal Performance
once upon a time too, by the
Grammys, yeah. Rob that of
Metallica.
Huey Lewis in the news is not in
the rock and roll. Wow. Wow. So,
I mean, there's, it just goes
on. Motley Crue isn't in there.
Yeah,
it just doesn't make sense. No,
it does not, you know, and, and
we're not the first to say this
kind of stuff. I mean, you hear
these, these cries every time
they announce the inductees,
every Oh, sure. And people will
scratch their heads and go, you
know, you don't want to be
disrespectful to successful
acts, but in their own genre.
But what the heck are they doing
in the Rock and Roll Hall of
Fame?
Yeah, because it's not rock and
roll to me, yeah, if it's rock
and roll, that means rock and
roll. That
means so, you know, either they
need to really start inducting
only rock and roll acts, or they
need to change the name of the
place.
Yeah. And then, is it a play for
a mass audience attraction? I
think that, I think you hit on
it right there. I think they're,
they're wanting to get a mass
appeal, yeah? And to me,
they've, they've kind of, they
made
themselves vulnerable.
Yeah, they did. Well, it just,
it kind of dilutes, yeah, they
watered it down. Yeah. I mean,
it just dilutes what rock and
roll really has been, which, to
me, is total freedom, rebellion.
Like I said, when I think rock
and roll, the first person I
think of is Keith Richards,
yeah, that's the first person I
think of is rocking. I don't
think Grand Master flash, I
don't think any. I mean, God
bless them all. Is
there a hip hop Hall of Fame?
There should be, I think there
should be too.
Yeah, there should be. There's
plenty of acts to to make that
happen.
And you know what, I'd be just
as not outraged, but like,
really, you know, if you start
inducting arrows Aerosmith, and
they're not hip hop, no, they're
not a rock and roll band, right?
And you would, really, I don't
think you would get Aerosmith
wouldn't even be considered for
a hip hop Hall of Fame. No, you
know, I mean, on the other side
of the spectrum,
No, it'd be like, Well, it'd be
like, putting, you know, deep
purple in the in the hip hop
Hall of Fame, or, you know,
putting a, you know, Richie
Blackmore in the Country Music
Hall of Fame, it'd be, it makes
about as much sense
now, is the Country Music Hall
of Fame similar? I've never
been, you know,
it's been a long time since I've
been in there. You know, I, you
know, when they built the new
build, to me, it's still the new
Country Music Hall of Fame. I
think it is to a lot of people
that are, yeah, you know, I've
kind of cruised through there,
but I think it's pretty well
done, you know, and they do a
lot of nice exhibits. I know
Patty loveless had a nice
exhibit in there for I may still
be set up in there, I don't
know. But usually when they
induct new members, they will
kind of create little, you know,
segments dedicated to the new
inductees, which is a nice
touch, yeah,
it is a nice touch. Yeah. I
liked how what Waylon Jennings
did. Because, you know, Wayland
was always kind of a rebel, and,
you know, he didn't. He was, he
was an outlaw. Was he was an
outlaw, but when he was inducted
into the Country Music Hall of
Fame. Instead of going down and
making a speech himself, he sent
his son, buddy didn't even send
shooter as it gets Yeah, go pick
it up for me, you're a fan of
his, aren't you? Waylon
Jennings, I like him a little
bit. It's a. Yeah, yeah, just a
little bit. Got all of his
right. Now, you've got the new
one coming in, or songbird.
Songbird, yeah, that's gonna be
interesting. Yeah. I saw a post
on social media his brother who
owns,
oh yeah, he owns way More's
Yeah, beer joint or something.
It's like, yeah, it's like, it's
like a it's like a store, yeah?
Like, convenience, yeah.
But he was, he had, like, an
advanced pressing, like 35
copies of the vinyl. Oh, yeah,
given
away. Yeah. I think shooter may
have signed those too, but yeah,
shooter found these cuts. It's
gonna be, it's gonna be
interesting to hear, but he's
got three albums worth. Wow,
that's a lot. It is a lot of
stuff. And he said it was in the
house, and it was in a room that
nobody could go into when Waylon
was alive. And shooter came
across this stuff. And I guess
he sweetened it up a little bit
and and added some background
vocals.
And, I mean, was it just like
old analog tape laying around in
there?
He said it was completed tunes.
Said it was all completed songs
by him and the Wailers. And he
said it was just like a treasure
trove. They said, three albums
worth
interesting, you know, makes you
wonder if
will RCA, or, you know, some
other label, perhaps lay claim
to
that stuff? I mean, well, that's
interesting, because shooters
putting it out on his own,
right, right? So, yeah, I'd be
wondering if, if he had to work
out a deal with RCA, because,
knowing these record companies
in Nashville are notorious for
trying to milk whatever they
can. Probably the worst of
milking an artist to death is
Jimi Hendrix. Oh yeah, my gosh,
they, I mean, if Jimmy farted in
the studio, they're gonna put
out a, you know, an album on it,
because they put out some stuff
that, frankly, because if you
ever saw Jimi Hendrix in any of
the Woodstock or Isle of Wight
these, these two festivals that
they put out, you know, CDs on
DVDs, they weren't the greatest.
In fact, Isle of Wight was a, oh
my gosh, that or the worst had
to be Atlanta. Live in Atlanta
on July 4. Do you think
there's an element of, like,
overratedness? You think with
that?
Or I think, I think what it is
is just a family member just
trying to milk as much money as
they can out of
he had his whole section. Yeah,
he had a whole section devoted
to Hendrix. There was a section
to Janis Joplin, a lot of the
60s artists from Woodstock that
I do that was kind of cool, you
know. And my wife was looking at
Janice Josh, she's like, she was
not a good looking woman. And I
go, she was bad. I mean, yeah,
no, she was, she was just for
the time. I mean, she was a hard
liver, you know, she drank a
lot, and a lot of drugs,
but, you know, they all did
really, Jimi Hendrix, to me, was
always one of those artists. I'm
like, yeah, he was, he did a lot
for the genre, but I'm like, it
wasn't bad. I mean, no,
I loved Hendrix. I mean, I
thought Hendrix was great. But
when I watched the whole
Woodstock, because, you know,
Star Spangled Banner, yeah, man,
that was phenomenal. But you
watched the whole show. Oh, it
was, Well, number one, he had
put this band together at the
last minute, so nobody really
knew what the other was doing.
And you could tell by the it was
just loose and just kind of
meandered all over the it wasn't
real bad, but it wasn't great,
yeah, but once he got into Star
Spangled Banner and and did the,
you know, spar spangled banner,
into Purple Haze, into that
little blues thing he did on
guitar at the end, that was
good. That was the best part of
the but really, when I, when I
went to see Woodstock, I went to
see Hendrix, primarily because I
was a big Hendrix fan, but I
walked away from that movie
loving Sly and the Family Stone,
they were phenomenal 10 years
after, who, by the way, they're
not in the rock fame either. 10
years after the who, Joe Cocker,
there were so many performances
on Woodstock that just really
blew me away more than Jimmy
did.
Actually Sly and the Family
Stone they are in, yeah, they
are Rock and Roll Hall
of and now he deserves to be
there. He was a, like, I said,
Man, if you ever saw Woodstock
the movie, or if you were one of
the people that went to the
show, and remember he was, I
think he was the show stealer.
Oh, really, yeah. Well, if you
watch Prince, Prince, you can
tell really got a lot of, I
think he got a lot of influence
from watching sly and Family
Stone, right? Because Prince
kind of had the same kind of
band, you know, really free form
jamming. And, you know, put on a
show time band.
You'd mentioned Huey Lewis in
the news. And in that 1984
exhibit, he was prominently
featured. Really, I'm surprised
he's not an
inductee. Well, they should be
in there. Huey Lewis and the
News were huge.
I mean, it's he, the Heart of
Rock and roll is in Cleveland,
yes. I mean, for
God's sake, it's in the song.
Yes, it is. It looks like you
pay back. But you know, there's
a lot of country art. We were
bringing up the Country Music
Hall of Fame. There are a lot of
country artists that aren't in
there that should be Allison
Krause is one. Oh, wow, she's
not in the Country Music Hall.
Yeah.
She's more bluegrass, though,
right?
Yeah, she tours with Robert
Plant and and John Wait, right?
Nothing but bluegrass.
Yeah, she's totally bluegrass.
But yeah, there's a ton of Clint
Black isn't in there.
Oh, gosh, we could go down the
laundry list. Vern Gosden, I
know that a guy in Nashville
known as the voice Yes, and not
in the Country Music Hall of
Fame
well, and he has, I mean,
probably one of the best, aside
from, he stopped loving her
today, chiseled in stone, you
talk about a song that'll make
you classic
weep, you know. And you know,
Vern was on Electra for a number
of years, when he had some
really big hits, and then he
went on an independent label,
which, back at that time, when
he was on an independent label,
back in the mid 80s, was still
getting number one records, top
10 records, which, back then,
things have changed, but back
then an indie label getting any
sort of recognition, yeah, on
country radio was next to
impossible. You know, Jim Glaser
was able to do that as well. I
forgot about Jim. Yeah, what a
great artist. Man, no kidding.
He was on a label, noble vision,
yes and yeah. You know, to me,
Jim Glaser, when I think back on
the fact that he sang high
harmony on El Paso, yes for
Marty Robbins, what singing high
harmony to Marty Robbins, that's
a trick. That is a trick, you
know. And Jim Glaser pulled it
off. He was, like, 19 or 20
years old, oh, sure, when he
did that. And he also, if
anybody ever heard Tom Paul and
the glacier brother, oh man, my
gosh, they were fast. And you
talk about harmony, they ought
to be in there. Absolutely ought
to be in there, because you
number one, you wouldn't have
the outlaw country music craze.
Had Tom Paul not really gotten
all these people together,
right? Of course, their biggest
hit. I think it got to number
two. Was loving her was easier
than Chris Christofferson tune,
yeah. But Tom Paul and his and
his brothers, I mean that family
harmony, man, oh, they were
speaking of another family group
that's not in the hall, Larry
Gatlin and the Gatlin brothers.
Exactly. That is a crime. That
is a crime, you know. And again,
we talked about this before we
started the podcast here, you
know, Not to disparage some of
the artists that are in there,
no. But I feel like these
artists like Larry Gatlin, Don
rich, Eddie rabbit, Mickey
Gilly, yeah, we're gonna mention
some other Earl, Thomas Connor
Thomas Connolly, that dude had
like, 16 or 17 number one songs
back in the 80s. Wrote them all,
yes, and is not in there. But it
seems like a lot of these
artists have just kind of been
passed over and forgotten, and
now we're putting people in
there that are fairly recent. I
have nothing against Kenny
Chesney put the guy in there,
sure. But why is Eddie rabbit
not in there and Kenny Chesney
is that makes no sense to me?
No, it doesn't to me either. And
two guys that I think have been
passed over that shouldn't be,
and this is just my opinion,
Johnny paycheck, absolutely.
Johnny paycheck was huge. I
mean, he was a character, yes,
so bank slaves was
absolutely, you know, it's
almost like they're the Baseball
Hall of Fame. You know, there's
some artists, there are some
athletes that ought to be in
there, but because of their
political stance or something,
they've kind of been snubbed.
Their performance on the field
should be, really what matters.
Curt Schilling comes to mind,
right? That man needs to be in
the hall. I think that Johnny
paycheck kind of the same thing
in a way, yes, because he was
kind of a well, he was, he was a
character, he was a
Hellraiser. Yeah, there's just
nothing. But, I mean, so many
country artists were at that
time, and another one that was
another Hellraiser. David Allen
Coe, he should be in there to me
because he he had one of the
most Sung. You cannot go into a
country bar without somebody on
karaoke night singing. You never
call me by my name exactly, or,
as some people know it, darling,
darling, darling, darling.
Darling. You never call me
darling, darling, darling, yeah,
but because they don't like his
lifestyle, or the, you
know, it's just passed over. But
yeah,
there are so many that Freddie
Hart's not in there. I know
Freddie fender is
not in easy, loving Freddie
Hart, that was a monster. So and
he had other, oh yeah, other big
hits as well. But, you know, you
go on the female side of things.
Jamie fricky,
yeah, she's not in there, you
know, Seeley isn't in there.
Jeannie C Riley's not in there.
I mean, Jesse Coulter, yeah, but
yeah, the Jamie freaky. I mean,
she was CMA Female Vocalist of
the Year, I believe, 80 and 81
you know. So in the woman's not
in the Hall of Fame. Yeah, it is
disappointing. I know there was
a time when they would only put
like one artist every year.
They've kind of expanded that a
little bit to where they're
adding more, right?
But there are a lot of women
like Lori Morgan should be in
there, I think. Yeah. Pam
tiller, Oh, absolutely, yeah.
So, I mean it almost Ricky van
Shelton. You know, when you get
out of town, Ricky van Shelton
isn't in there.
When you look at the list of
folks that are in it is
overwhelmingly male. And yes,
it, you know. And of course,
female artists in country have
long complained about how they
get up or under represented on
country radio. That's been a
debate for years. Yeah?
Well, I remember during my early
days in country radio, we were
told not to play two females,
yeah?
That was kind of an unwritten
rule. Well, on some stations it
was a written rule, yeah, you
got called on the card, yeah,
you don't play two females
Absolutely, which I do back to
back. You know, yeah,
occasionally I got
was the research that, why did
they, why are they these
arbitrary rules that radio? I
don't know. I don't know where
they came from. They were
stupid,
yeah, and a lot of them, there
are no longer applicable, you
know, I'm on a number of country
stations around the country. And
there was a time when you you
know, you wouldn't play an
artist more than you know, you
had to spread them out. You
wouldn't have a George Strait
record perhaps every hour. Or
you know, it'd be they'd Hey,
Oh, you got to play them four or
five hours apart, you know? And
right? Okay, we got the one of
the, if not the hottest artist
in the format. We can only play
this guy once every four hours.
That's stupid. Oh, very stupid.
But that doesn't seem to be the
case anymore, you know, I'm on
WSM FM from time to time, pretty
regular here in Nashville, and
there are a core of artists that
we play, we may play a oh gosh,
Luke combs, for example, or
Morgan Wallen, you know, today's
artists, right? They may get
played three or four times just
in the span of a couple of
hours. Oh yeah, yeah. So and I
don't disagree with that, you
know? I don't eat like when
Jerry Reed said, you know, when
you're hot, you're hot, you
know. So play the hot stuff.
That's what people want to hear.
Well, it's like when I live when
I worked in Birmingham, Alabama,
and we probably played these two
artists every hour, because they
were so popular down there. One
was Alabama, of course, and
another one was Hank Williams
Jr, yeah, this was in the early
80s. Yeah, early to mid 80s.
Born to boogie days. Oh, yeah,
where a country boy can't
survive
and all my rowdy friends. Yeah,
it's, it's interesting to see
how it's like there at one point
in time, radio actually did
take, you know, make, make the
phone calls, get the laid. And
the local market would kind of
dictate what they wanted to
listen to. But then you had your
boss jocks that kind of did that
as well. That's a good way.
Yeah, Paola came into it. Oh,
yes. And these record guys would
come in, like, what do you need?
Girls, drugs, alcohol, what do
you know? What can I get for
you? Like they said, Yeah,
hookers and blow,
right? Radio is a much different
business back then, very
but it was more interesting than
though, because I, you know,
I've said many times, one thing
I do miss about America back
then was that if you were in,
say, Wichita, Kansas, you would
hear a totally different sound.
You would see different
restaurants, different types of
food. And then you go down to
Birmingham, Alabama, and when it
would be totally different,
yeah, homogenized today, yeah,
it's more homogenized now you
get, you get the same
restaurants. You get absolutely
everything's the same.
Radio's the same way, and you're
so right, Johnny. I mean, I grew
up in South Louisiana, started
my radio career there. And South
Louisiana is, well, Louisiana in
general, but specifically South
Louisiana, the music sound there
is totally different than any
other part of the country, and
that's not unusual. You. Go to
parts of Texas, and it's
different there than any other.
So it's not, you know, anything
that's all that unusual. But you
know, the stuff that we would
play there, we would play some
local artists and stuff. There
was kind of a swamp Boogie
country thing going on down
there, zadeko thing. Well, yeah,
there was an artist from North
Louisiana named Bubba Talbert
that we played. The guy was
great, yeah, we played a lot of
John Wesley Ryles. Remember him,
yeah, sound that really was
popular down there, yeah. And,
of course, at the time we were
locally owned, this was W, y and
K, A, M, F, M, Baton Rouge. That
was 100,000 watt flamethrower. I
mean, it just dominated the
market, but we would play that
kind of stuff. And Norman Wade
was another artist down there
that was local. And people love
Floyd brown owned a bar, and he
was very good. Was on MCA for a
little while. But anyway, it's
local to the market. That
station, the local owner, he was
getting older. Anyway, he sold
it to one of the big guys, which
eventually became clear channel,
and I heart and all that. Well,
when the station got sold, here
came the consultant, saying, Why
are you playing that crap? And
got rid of all of it, and we
started playing nothing but
crystal, Gale Kimmy, all of that
really homogenized. No
disrespect to those artists,
because they're great artists,
but we totally lost our
identity. Oh, yeah, you know, we
had these goobers coming in,
these consultants coming in from
other markets and stuff that
didn't know a damn thing about
South Louisiana, the people, the
culture, what made us tick down
there and and there was a revolt
from listeners. And thus a new
station came into the market,
started playing the stuff that
we were no longer playing, and
started kicking our butts, oh
yeah, you know, oh yeah. But
whose fault was that it was us
jocks that they elected to you
know, within six months, you
know those speeches, Johnny,
when our new owner comes in, oh
yeah. Oh, you guys are great.
Nothing to worry about, nothing
to worry about. You're the
reason that we bought this
station, because it's so
successful, and it's all because
of you. That's right. Six months
later, everybody's gone, oh,
exactly. And love that, yeah, so
that, you know, because our
ratings are down, it must be the
jocks. Yeah, no, it's these
Yahoos that they brought. Can
you tell I'm still a little
ticked? This is 40 years ago.
I'm still a little ticked by by
this kind of stuff.
Well, you know what they say
about consultants? Jay,
consultants are like guys that
can never get a date, but yet
teach you sexual positions.
That's what consults was like.
This is like in Kansas. You
know, when I was in radio, there
an artist that was really big
out there was Rex Allen Jr,
yeah, great singer, yeah. My
uncle played lead guitar for him
for years, really, yeah, yeah.
But Rex Allen Jr had such a
smooth sound. Well, like his
father, he had this great voice,
right? You know, his father
narrated all those Disney
documentaries and little nature
films. Oh,
exactly. And Rex Allen Jr
narrated me myself and Irene,
the Jim Carrey movie.
That's right, yeah, yeah, yeah.
It's, it's just such a, I don't
know, man, it's again, another
reason I think that, you know,
the radio's dead and dying and
so forth. You know, they did it
to themselves.
They did it was they committed
Harry Carey, really? I mean,
especially when they started
bringing in consultants and
started making everything
homogenized, everything the
same, yeah, one size
fits all, yeah, cutting
playlists down to 20 songs and
playing them over and over and
over,
and getting rid of, you know,
what I really miss are the great
personalities we talked about
the late great coyote mccloth In
a former episode, dude was
phenomenal. I miss people like
that. Yeah, that had such a
great talent of, oh, I mean,
Jerry house, oh, my god. Carl P
Mayfield, all these guys were so
good. You
know, you can hear the music
anywhere. What sets the station
apart?
Oh, the personality, exactly,
exactly. I miss the person. Now,
that's
the thing, is that that's really
upsetting is that radio still,
like it doesn't even know its
edge. It doesn't know its edge.
And it's, it's live and local at
all. It's even over podcasts and
digital guys, if you guys are in
charge of the radio stations,
it's live and local. Now, how do
you make sense of that
financially? Is the question.
Yes, you know,
because talk radio too,
especially sports talk and
political talk you're talking
That's an expensive Oh, yeah.
But. It pays for itself, though.
I once had Danielle breezy on my
podcast, usually, oh yeah and
great conversation. Had to edit
a lot of it because, you know, I
got I, you know, basically
brought her into the situations
and areas that she's like, Yeah.
I don't know if I could really
say that, but I basically said,
Look, do you realize the
leverage you have at that
station where you are. I said,
they know that nobody's watching
for the news, right? Everybody's
getting their news off at the
time, Twitter, Facebook, or
wherever you can get it these
days, on your phone. I said, But
dude, when we have a storm
situation, you have eyes on you.
I've seen your Facebook Lives.
You've got five, 6000 people
watching you at a time. And I
said, I don't see any ads
running. What the hell are they
thinking they need to you need
like something in that's running
in a lower third, or something
that you need to be selling
something to get in front of
those eyes.
Well, and look at the girl that
was let go from. Was it Channel
Five? Brie Smith, Bree Smith,
yeah, she's still popular.
Well, she's, she's, she pivoted
into becoming more of a personal
brand. Very smart move. It was a
very smart, okay, the same thing
I, you know, I tell about del
giorno, and then when those
guys, they were cut loose, it's
like, look, I blew him, him up.
Start A Podcast. I did the same
thing to you.
Yeah, you did. Look what
happened?
Here we are. Here we are. But
yeah, you're right. Yeah, I
just, I really hate that radio
has gotten away from, especially
music. Radio has gotten away
from the personality, because
that's what really sold it. It
wasn't the music was great, but
we also loved, I mean, I love
tuning in to hear some crazy
morning guy, or, you know,
afternoon guy that was just off
the wall,
and nowadays you're told, don't
talk for more than 15 seconds.
You know, that was yours.
Yeah. And also put, you know,
just put out something that you
know, some kind of information
that nobody really cares about.
You know, did you know that 300
people a year put up their
Christmas trees early?
Now here's crystal waka.
Waka. Good morning. Everybody.
Good morning.
Yeah, super. 20 minutes on the
back side of the front side of
the 10 o'clock hour.
Don't forget, Wednesday night we
got comedy at the cookhouse with
Wayne Winsley.
Make sure you get your That's
right. Come by for those $5 off
on the pizza super, just super.
That's right.
But we need to, you know
somebody else. Back to the
Country Music Hall of Fame. One
person that's not in there that
I cannot believe. Shania Twain,
yeah, I'm not a Shania Twain
fan, but she was a trendsetter.
Oh, and, I mean, you talk about
selling records, is Taylor in
there? Big time. I don't know.
She is no trace. Adkins isn't in
there. What? No trace isn't in
there. What he ought to be.
Travis tritt, what? Another one
that's not in there.
You know, to be fair, I've
actually, I pulled it up to see
what their process is. What is
their process? Jim CMA elects
three new Hall of Fame members
each year, unless there is a tie
in the voting for a category. In
that case, both of who's or both
of those who are tie are
admitted together. For example,
in 2021 Eddie Bayers and Pete
Drake tied in the voting for the
recording and or touring
musician category, and both were
inducted in the Country Music
Hall of Fame. So they're only
allowing three in a year. So,
you know,
yeah, that's pretty used to be
just one. Yeah, it was it. We
used to be just one.
And I remember one day, one of
those shows, I can remember
Willie Nelson saying on stage,
we need to open the doors of
this place and let a whole bunch
of them in the, you know, in the
in the hall. And, yeah, so,
right, they certainly need to
expand beyond three.
That's ridiculous, logistically.
What would that look like all of
a sudden, if like, let's have a
mass adoption of all these
artists, how do you make them
feel special? You know what I
mean? Yeah, is that something
that
I mean, the mere fact that
they're being inducted should
make them feel special, I would
think. But I understand where
you're, where you're coming
from, yeah?
Because, you know, they do have
egos, and they look, you know,
right? It is a very competitive
field. I don't care how much
these country artists or any
artists say they're friends with
so and so. Yeah, they're in
competition, yeah, and they and
they love, you know, when it's
something special, they don't
want to be part of a group.
They'd rather be it's all about
me. Now I have
another interesting story, her
ultimate classic rock, classic
rock.com Jon Bon Jovi. Bon Jovi
is an inductee in the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame, or a member,
I guess, but Jon Bon Jovi is
not. They actually have their
own section there, too. That was
kind of cool, but he said, to
put it mildly, Jon Bon Jovi's
relationship with the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame has been
complicated. He felt slighted
that his namesake. Band had to
wait 10 years after becoming
eligible to finally get
inducted. During their
induction, Bon Jovi joked that
he had written two speeches, one
a thank you speech, and the
other, A, F use, blank use.
Kind of like what Steve Miller
did when he accepted his speech.
Yeah. I understand he made cheap
trick. Kind of feel
uncomfortable,
uncomfortable because, you know,
John Bon Jovi's got his own
track record and successes.
Well, sure, an artist in his own
right.
Well, you also have David Lee
Roth true, you know, David Lee
ought to be in there.
He should, yeah.
Well, you know, you mentioned
the Spencer Davis. Spencer Davis
Group, the Spencer Davis Group,
not in there. And, you know,
Steve Winwood
isn't either well, and Eric,
Eric Clapton, a few bands. What
blind faith cream. And
Boston. Did you say Boston?
Yeah, Boston's not in there.
That's nuts. That's No, that's
not right, that's a crime.
That's just
and then you have, you know,
deep purple, Richie Blackmore,
he added another band, rainbow.
Phil Collins, they're not in
there. Phil
Collins is not in there. I mean,
it's like, you know, come on,
yeah, I think got more rock than
that. Yeah, they have a cult on
it's not in there. No. Roger
Daltrey as an artist, I guess
not
in Pete Townsend's not in there
as an artist. And he had several
solo bits, Eric and the
dominoes, yep, another Eric
Clapton band. Someone said Devo.
And I'm like,
Yeah, somebody did mention Devo.
I
yeah, I can see that. Yeah. They
don't need to be do Dio, yeah,
he's freaking legend. Yeah, that
dude is a legend. Do ought to be
in there.
Now, I'm a big anthrax guy, and
I think they need to be in there
because they they broke a lot of
rules. Yeah, they did okay as a
thrash band, yeah, they did.
You're right. You know, they
deserve to be in there. They did
the whole thing with Public
Enemy, and it was a lot it was a
lot of
fun. Now, if you're going to put
dolly in there, you need to put
there there. There are country
artists that have more rock and
roll cred than me. I love Dolly,
yeah, honor.
I know rock and roll. I know
it's hard to say anything, and
we're not saying anything bad
Dolly, but it's, I know it's a
real mixed emotion thing.
Well, it is. I mean, because
there were other country artists
that had more of a rock and roll
edge to them, I'd put David
Allen COE in there, because he
actually, he did an album. He
did an album with Pantera that
was quite popular, called Rebel
meets rebel. First time you had
a country artist with a, with a,
I mean, I mean, heavy, heavy
metal band.
They were those. They were so
produced, oh yeah, gosh, the
compression on that album. My
goodness, well, gosh, they were
great. They were great bands. Oh
my gosh. I mean, that's, you
know, you got, we actually have
their touring now, with Phil
Anselmo and the original bass
player,
yeah, but you don't have the,
you can't Abbott brothers,
right? It'd be like touring Van
Halen without Alex
and Eddie, which, I mean, Sammy
kind of did, yeah, did you see
that when they came around here?
Yeah, I went to that show. I
didn't go to the show, but yeah,
I've seen, have you seen David
Lee Roth's? No, some of his
i They came around with him
back, you know, in the, you
know, 2010 2011 Yeah, and he was
singing with them. I just
couldn't
do it. No, I could. Well, I did.
I went to see, I went to see
that it was 2012 when they had
different kind of truth. Yeah,
he was bad, yeah, he sucked.
He's just
pretty much talking at this
point.
Well, the thing was, the band
sounded great. Wolfgang did add
a bottom edge to those guys. I
mean, it was, I was blown away
musically, yeah. But when they
got to jump the final song, I
was like, why Yoko Ono could
sing this better than David
Lee is wow. Jump never sounded
right live.
No, it didn't. They couldn't.
They never pulled that off live.
It doesn't have the same grit.
No, it doesn't the album. No.
Sammy Hagar is not in the Hall
of Fame either. See, that's
wrong. That is wrong. Sammy
Hagar, you know, that's a rock
and roll iconic voice. Don
Henley, yeah, hole is not in the
I'm okay, yeah,
hole, well, I did, I did like, I
did like the one album. What was
the celebrity skin? Yeah, I kind
of like that. Billy Idol, yeah,
why is he in there? Yeah, Glenn
Frey is Glenn fry not in there?
I don't, no, no, he's not in
excess,
yeah? In excesses. That's a
crime,
you know, but Hank Williams
Senior is in the Rock and Roll
Hall of Fame. Yeah, I can
understand that Hank Williams
Jr,
I guess, because so many of his
songs, Hank Williams songs, have
been recorded by quote, unquote.
Rock, Pop artist, well,
rock artist, you know, Tom
Petty. I love what Tom Petty
said about he said, all the
country music you hear today,
it's like bad garage, you know,
rock and roll, garage band with
a fiddle. He said, You really
want to get to country music.
Get to Hank Williams and Johnny
Cash. Lenny Kravitz not in there
as Johnny Cash in the rock
John. Yes, he is. He should be,
yeah, yeah. But his daughter,
Roseanne, is not in the Country
Music Hall of Fame, and she
should be, yeah. She made some
great records. Yeah, she did.
Man, that seven year ache, which
was her big monster, you know?
Yeah, that did cross over. But
my baby thinks he's a train. Oh,
yeah, you know. And her ex
husband, Rodney Crowell, he
should be in there. Definitely
should be in the country Hall.
Not only a great songwriter, and
had cuts galore by Oak Ridge
Boys, Waylon, Jennings, you name
it, but also had great hits
himself. Hits himself. Yeah, in
fact, off one album, Diamond's
dirt. Did he not have like, five
number one songs? Yeah, yeah,
yeah, yeah, there's, that's a
crime, you know. And Rodney is
such a, of course, I call him
like a buddies with the guy. But
Rodney Crowell, you know, he is.
He's always been part of that
Nashville clique, for lack of a
better term. So it's surprising
that he's not in
there. No, it does surprise me.
And really, you know, when I
think about it, Steve Earle
ought
to be in there. Yeah, I think
that he certainly deserves to be
in there at some point. But with
all due respect to Steve, I
mean, he's our pal, but not
before some of these other
artists, well, I would agree
with you on that. You know, the
Eddie ratchets in the world.
Well, you know, Steve Earle
could be in the country. I mean,
in the rock, yeah, in the Rock
and Roll olive thing, yeah, and,
heck, he's done bluegrass
albums. Well, yeah, a
complete one with the del
McCarthy band, exactly the
mountain, right? Fantastic.
Yeah. You know, he's one of
those artists that, and I, and I
understand it, you know, he gets
bored, you know, he, oh, I do
see, I want to try new stuff,
man. And
he does it all well, that's
what. Because when he, when he
put out the Bluegrass, I
thought, Oh, what are you doing?
What are you doing? You hear it?
I took it home, and I was like,
wow, this is,
well, Steve's not gonna let any
crap go out with his name
on it. No, he's not, you know,
he's got a great one out with
was this band, is it reckless,
Kelly, something
like, something like that.
But they've got, they've got a
song out right now, and it's
really good things called Bad
Girls. Yeah,
yeah. You got to wonder, like,
in either these things, when
they first start them, they got
to know like, look, we're going
to be, it's a catch 22 no matter
what we do, we're going to we're
going to not please everybody.
But when you have you know
artists that aren't in the
genre, that are getting nods
ahead of the genre, you proclaim
to put out there and represent
what are you doing here? Yeah, I
know,
yeah, that's the only you know,
I'm not been a big guy on
labels, but I do think, like in
the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame,
if they just call it the Pop
Music Hall of Fame, it's what it
is, and it is that's exactly
what it is. That's what it
should be called.
But you got to wonder, it's
like, okay, if somebody came
along and said, I see what
you're doing, and I'll raise you
and say, I'm going to start my
own Rock and Roll Hall of Fame
and make it absolutely legit.
And we're gonna, we're gonna
induct a whole bunch of people
because, you know, and then just
start your own.
Well, I think, I think we have a
plan here, gentlemen, maybe we
should be the ones that start
this. Let's, you know, whoever's
interested in investing,
let's, yeah, whoever's out there
and wants to bankroll this thing
for us. Thank you very
much. Yeah, but you know, again,
once you start admitting artists
that are kind of little
questionable as to whether they
should be deemed rock and roll
artists, right? Once you do
that, then that's, you know,
it's, yeah, floodgates. Well, if
they're in, then how well, then
you need to put and then there
you go, right? I mean, Earth,
Wind and Fire is in the Rock and
Roll Hall of Fame. And I get
that. I mean, yeah, I get that.
You know, they had some stuff
that was, was rock, you know, oh
yeah. And, you know, had some
real good rock and roll riffs
and a lot of their stuff. So I
hey, you know, I get it, but
they can also be seen as soul as
well. Yeah, Isley Brothers,
absolutely, yeah. Or Jim those
brothers too. Who's that lady by
the Isley Brothers, oh yeah,
with that fuzz guitar in there.
I mean, that's rock and roll.
Man, yes, it is. You guys been
to the Muscle Shoals Music Hall?
No. Man, I've always wanted to
visit that, but that's a cool
place. I bet it is. I went down
to muscle I was kind of
disappointed in Muscle Shoals,
though, because I was expecting
this sleepy, little Alabama town
that. Used to be now it just
looks like Murfreesboro. But I
did go by the fame, the fame
recording studios, because we we
got to interview Rick Hall and a
couple of guys, I think it was
David hood and Jimmy Johnson
before they passed. But it was
fun interviewing those guys,
because I'm thinking, man, these
guys are, you're talking about
history, yeah, you know, with
Rick Hall and especially Jimmy
John, Jimmy Johnson, I enjoyed
talking to because he's the one
that first produced Leonard
Skinner, and he he blew me away,
because I asked him what they
were like. And he said the only
thing we had to teach them was
how to count down. He said they
just start playing. But he said
they were so rehearsed, so well
rehearsed. He said we didn't
have to do too many takes on
them. He said they and he said
they were that way live, too. So
they really did. They weren't a
jam band, right? Said, they were
more of a Ronnie Van Zandt made
sure that everything sounded
like the record. And he was such
a task master that he made the
guys play exactly as they played
on the recording. Hmm. You
know, they had such a reputation
among many of just kind of being
this wild, scattered, just, you
know, drinking beer, just a
bunch of old country boys, yeah,
a bunch of rednecks and stuff,
which they were, yeah, but from
what you're describing, you
know, it was all business,
though, man, getting in that in
some ways, yeah,
studio, as far as the studio
goes, I think you know, Ronnie
Van Zandt was a task master, but
yeah, on the road, yeah, they
were Hell Raisers. In fact,
Ronnie Van Zant, I would have
hated to work with this guy,
because they Ed King told the
story one time about Ronnie
getting so drunk he broke a
lamp. He was mad about something
that happened during the
concert, and he was going around
each member, and, in fact,
stabbed Gary Robinson in the
hand. He said, You'll never play
again. Good. I mean, just crazy,
you know, I just don't think I
could have worked with somebody
like that.
It's not a big proponent of
healthy culture creation. No
organizations, no, yeah,
they wouldn't put up with that
today in
the good friend of mine who was
my program director at a station
I worked at in Louisiana, the
Leonard Skinner plane crash
happened on their land, oh,
Mississippi, yeah, and Phil
Williams is not the bonehead.
That's the reporter here in
Nashville. Tell us how you
really feel. No, this is a Phil
Williams was my PD in radio down
in South Louisiana at one of my
stations. But anyway, his family
lived on, you know, on a farm,
ranch kind of thing, McComb,
Mississippi, yeah. And, you
know, they heard the crash. Phil
was a teenager. Wow. At the
time, they were literally, were
the first on the scene of the
crash. And in fact, there are
you, I think you can find them
on YouTube. They're news
reports, and it's Phil's dad
being interviewed. Oh, yeah,
I've seen all of those. Yeah,
interesting. But I, you know,
Phil described the scene. He
said it was pretty gruesome. I
had to be so I won't get into
that. But he said one of the
things that made the biggest
impression on him when they when
they got to the scene of the
crash, there was money
everywhere. Apparently, they've
been playing poker on the plane.
Oh, yeah. They Yeah, yeah. He
said there was, you know, paper
money everywhere, up in the
trees and stuff. You said. It
was really eerie, really, but,
yeah, it was pretty traumatic
scene, especially for a teenager
well, and especially a lot of
those old farmers down there.
They because Artemis pile the
drummer, went for help, and some
of the farmers shot at him
because they said we just
thought he
was a hippie. They're trying to
shoot you out of the sky. And he
survived. Yeah, Mississippi boy.
But anyway, I long haired,
freaky people. I hope you read
the sign anyway. I'm reading the
sign here that you know and like
us. Wherever you're at, you're
on YouTube or Facebook.
Facebook, we're on Twitter.
We're actually what I'm giving
us on Twitch. Are you getting us
on Twitter? Yes, yes. So, and
again, we will have a full
fledged, full blown website at
circling the drain.net, here
very soon. So we getting merch,
man, we
got that. Oh yeah, we got to
have some merch. Gotta have
merch. Gotta have merch.
I gotta say, before we wrap up,
the rock and roll, Hall of Fame
is kind. Have akin to the NFL.
There's like a tone deafness in
a way, yeah, especially with the
announcement recently of who's
going to be the halftime
performer. I know it.
Oh man, you're not kidding. Yes,
bad bunny. I
know an anti American, Latino
that doesn't perform in English
that that ought to go over
really
well. But, I mean, it's so tone
deaf. It's Jay Z. I think who
has the control of that he's got
an agreement with. We'll say no
more. Yeah. So he's, he's been
picking all the acts for the
past several years,
kind of like Beyonce winning
country Album of the Year, the
Grammy the Grammys. And I don't
have anything against cowboy
Carter. I thought some of it was
good, okay, yeah, I never heard
it. It was not bad. It wasn't
bad. I wouldn't say it was her
version of country, is what I
would call it. I wouldn't call
it a country album.
And one more travesty of the
Hall of Fame, rock and roll,
Hall of Fame, Roger Waters, not,
no, I'm not really upset about
that.
And can you imagine the
acceptance speech you
hear what he said about Ozzy
recently, yes. What a dumb dude.
What an ass Jack came out and
went after him. Good for Yeah,
he
did. Good for Jack, yeah, yeah,
yeah. Roger Waters is just an
ass freaking pompous jackal.
Yeah, he really is. And there
are, you know, well, it's like
we had way days on previously.
And, you know, there's just some
like that in the business.
They're turns,
you know, go play your base,
yeah,
go play your bass and go count
your money.
Get out of our life so we'd want
to be back.
Yeah, all right, Johnny, time
for us to go count our money.
Yeah, which won't take long. No,
it won't take long because we'll
have plenty to we'll be back
before you know it on circling
the drain. You.