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Each week Adam & Ste focus on a specific feature, idea or prototype in Hardcover and iterate on it together or with guests.
Adam (00:01.206)
Hey, hey, stay, how's it going?
Ste (00:03.32)
Hiya, it's going well, enjoying a nice London afternoon. How about you?
Adam (00:09.026)
I'm pretty quiet here. My wife's on a trip with her sister, so I have the house to myself this week. So very different flow of the day is with one person compared to two people.
Ste (00:23.642)
Yeah, I know about that. That's perfect. What have you been up to?
Adam (00:26.446)
Hehehe
Um, not too much. Um, I was just installing some blackout curtains in my bedroom this weekend. So yeah, I had a much better night's sleep last night because of it.
Ste (00:41.577)
Okay, yeah, I heard that was like pretty great.
Adam (00:45.15)
Definitely recommend them. Don't especially love hanging curtains, but after they're up, at least don't have to worry about it.
Ste (00:53.052)
Yeah, like a nice hotel room. I got one of those sleep masks and it's been making a whole lot of difference Especially with these nights over here Because it gets light. We get light at 4 a.m Usually in summer. So yeah Nope, I think
Adam (01:13.124)
of 4AM, wow.
Adam (01:20.522)
If you ever need a pause or anything, let me know.
Ste (01:20.82)
Ah, here we go. Yeah, now I got stuck a bit. Okay, we're back. Yeah, I was saying that the days in summer are very long and very short in winter. That's, you know, the proximity to the Northern Hemisphere, I guess. Sorry, there might be some baby noises in the background. It's my son.
Adam (01:38.626)
Yeah.
Adam (01:42.618)
Oh, no worries. If you ever need to take a break, let me know. Cool.
Ste (01:45.54)
Nah, it's fine. He's with his mom.
Ste (01:50.244)
Perfect. Yeah.
Adam (01:53.065)
What have you been up to this week?
Ste (01:55.468)
Well, I had a sinus surgery last week. I was telling you about it. Yeah, basically one of my The biggest sinus the maxillary sinus It collapsed so they had to redo it and I got surgery this Saturday, which was luckily like very Successful and very light compared to what was I was expecting so no black eye nothing so
Sinus is back to normal. I'm breathing. I might be a bit nasal today, but yeah, at least, you know, it makes a whole lot of difference breathing. So yeah, it was quite a thing. I was expecting this. I had like lots of trouble getting this diagnosis because apparently it's a pretty rare condition and I had to go through like seven doctors to actually be able to get to the bottom of it, which was... yeah.
Adam (02:48.014)
She's.
You're you're looking pretty good for two days post surgery.
Ste (02:54.656)
Yeah, I mean, it's good. I was on fentanyl on Saturday, so that was, yeah, it didn't feel like anything. So yeah, I'm not in any pain. And this condition, what's good about it, I mean, good is that it doesn't come with any pain, just like your sinus basically implodes on itself and you're like, eh.
Adam (03:18.434)
man. Yeah, any like face surgery stuff is always a bit scary.
Ste (03:27.1)
Yeah, I know. I don't know if it was noticeable, but my left eye, what was scared about it is that my left eye basically like sunk a bit. It might have been visible on the stream, so if anybody noticed, that was it. If one of your eyes like basically falls into your head like about two millimeters, definitely go to ENT and get that checked out because yeah, yeah.
Adam (03:49.686)
Interesting.
Ste (03:53.12)
First, they've gotten me referred to neurologists, and I was like, I had like a long list of neurology stuff that could have been happening, but yeah, it wasn't that. And I was lucky that I actually tried to get sinus CT scan, yeah. And what's even more interesting about it is that-
I pursued this because I put my symptoms into chat GPT and it was actually in that list of conditions. So if it wasn't for that, I swear I wouldn't have done it because I mean, the doctors were pretty sure it was either Bell's palsy or myastinia gravis, which was like neurological. So that's how I actually, I mean, it's weird, but yeah, I'm pretty glad for me. It paid off. I don't know what other people are using it for, but
Adam (04:23.918)
Wow.
Ste (04:45.636)
For me, it was life-changing.
Adam (04:47.87)
Wow. So yeah, so you, you learned that was a potential diagnosis from chat TPT and then you mentioned that to your doctors and they're like, yeah, that could be it. And then they did tests and realized that was what it was.
Ste (04:58.416)
Yeah. Yeah, the actual doctor who referred me, they actually like searched for the syndrome because it was prettier. So I'm guessing they don't learn about it. And there were a few NCBI, I think, papers published on it in medical journals. But that was that. So he literally like searched for it while I was in the doctor's office. And he was like, okay, yeah, maybe this was it.
And yeah, it was because I just like put in all the symptoms in there and it was like a long list of stuff and this thing. So I felt like a bit weird around the sinuses. That's why I went for it. But yeah, it totally like evaded the first like five doctors I've been to. Yeah.
Adam (05:28.039)
Wow.
Adam (05:37.271)
Hehehe
Adam (05:48.098)
Jeez. Wow.
Ste (05:51.736)
It was a journey. I mean, I'm glad it's over. It feels like way better. Yeah. So that was my weekend. Pretty eventful, I guess.
Adam (05:55.918)
That's good.
Man.
Adam (06:03.526)
Yeah, seriously.
Ste (06:05.41)
Yeah.
Adam (06:09.382)
Other than that, what's the recovery like going forward? Like is it pretty much like pretty quiet or anything you expect?
Ste (06:17.029)
Yeah, it's pretty.
Yeah, it's pretty easy. I mean, right now I'm due for a checkup in three months' time to see if my eye comes back to normal. But it's already been two days, and it's pretty OK. I mean, barely noticeable. And I feel great. So yeah, it's a simple operation. But if you don't get to the bottom of it, it's like, yeah. I heard people having this and not getting their diagnosis like in two, three years.
span and they were just checking stuff because usually it's the neurology and when they exhaust all the neurological stuff you get to the actual yeah other things that can be causing it so yeah I luckily skipped like a lot of those steps so it was like about four months since it happened for me yeah
Yeah, but other than that, yeah, it's been good. It's been good. We had a major release while this was happening. Yeah, lots of stuff happening, you know, medically speaking, while we were working on higher cover. I remember your ACL surgery, now I had surgery. It's not been uneventful.
Adam (07:36.105)
Yep.
Adam (07:40.358)
I feel like when I was working on startups in my 20s, this was less of a thing.
Ste (07:46.3)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, it's definitely like a later age thing to get, you know, the problem, the medical issue. But yeah, at least it's not serious and, you know, we're both recovering. And building hard cover.
Adam (07:54.231)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (08:05.426)
Yeah, this, the, getting the release out this week was like a big weight off my chest after basically working on it nonstop for the last four months. It was, yeah, it, it was basically a full rewrite of the entire front end.
Ste (08:24.184)
Yeah, it's pretty crazy. And I mean, it's already like paying off. I mean, the app is moving incredibly fast and everything is so better structured, I guess, even for me, you know, just seeing the code structure, it already makes like a lot more sense. And it's way easier to find where I have to come in and do the styling and it just like has a whole other flow to it, which is great.
How has it been in terms of how the data flowed through the application before and how it flows through now? Because it seems like it's way easier to handle everything that relates to books, to readers, to that kind of stuff.
Adam (09:09.99)
Yeah, we did like kind of a big refactoring on like where data exists in the front end. Kind of before whenever we'd show a book, we'd basically query the database, get information about the book, get information about your status for that book, and then we'd show maybe the book and like the book button with your status next to it. So every time we were showing a book, if you were logged in, we were also querying for your status.
for that book, we kind of changed to instead, now we're preloading your status for every book when you load the first page of a visit. And so for most people with hundreds or even a couple of thousand books, I wasn't worried about that. Because it's just like, it's a book ID, it's a status ID, and that's basically it. It's not like we're loading the full description about every book, we're just loading like, you know.
If you see book with ID one, tell that currently logged in user that they have status want to read or they have status nothing. But for users with like 20,000 books that they've saved in their library, I was kind of wondering like, is this going to scale well? But then I tried it on staging with somebody with 20,000 books in the library and it loaded those 20,000 books in 0.3 seconds. So it was...
Ste (10:35.086)
Wow, okay.
Adam (10:36.926)
It was basically instant whether you have a massive library or a tiny library, just because of how little that piece is, just the book ID and the status ID. Since we don't need all that other data about the book, it ends up being really fast.
Ste (10:47.28)
Yeah.
Ste (10:51.64)
Wow, yeah, that's something. I mean, 20,000 books. I didn't even know I have to search for this person on hardcover. Who is this, like 25?
Adam (11:01.062)
If you actually if you go to the new readers page and then sort by books count, yeah, but sort by books read. I think like Jeff Sexton has 7300 books in his red thing. And then when you think about his unread books and his want to read books, it's even much higher.
Ste (11:19.836)
Oh yeah, wow, okay.
Ste (11:28.1)
Wow, okay. So Jeff, yeah, we know Jeff. That's perfect. Yeah, it's, I mean, for people with these kinds of libraries, it's perfect. I mean, it's like made for this. Yeah, this is great. And I've noticed like all around the app, everything is almost instant. So right now everything just, yeah, loads, which is great. Compared to what we had, I mean,
If you remember our previous search, everyone was complaining about it. I mean, now how it works, of course, with Algolia and all the other algorithms that are working there. It's, yeah, the whole experience becomes something else. I'm curious whether people actually tried this in depth, because I know we have some readers who've tried it. But...
We haven't announced it yet, we're just squashing bugs. We're looking for edge cases before we actually announce it. That will do a major release. But yeah, it must, I mean, it feels like very, very different overall. And there's a lot of style fixes as well. There's a lot of new features as well, new pages, new ways things are shown. So that's...
But that's pretty good. I can't wait to like actually like announce it and yeah, get it out there. I still think we have like a couple of like things which are pretty easily solvable, but other than that, it should be there.
Adam (12:55.573)
Yeah.
Adam (13:01.051)
Yeah.
Adam (13:13.946)
Yeah. Like, uh, the last couple of days, like every, for the first, like couple of days after the release, like every morning I was fixing what I thought were like pretty bad bugs. And now the bugs are like mostly okay. There's maybe like two that I'm a little worried about. Basically, uh, the, um, app sometimes needs to be restarted on mobile. Like, you know, it'll, it'll kind of crash and
Ste (13:38.224)
Yeah, I noticed that, yeah.
Adam (13:41.43)
I'm not exactly sure why yet. I need to figure that one out. And sometimes like when you mark a book as, like when you change the status of a book, it kind of stays in a loading state. Like if that server request fails to the server, it doesn't come back and say, oh, there's a problem, can you try again? It just gets into a perpetual state of loading.
Ste (14:04.757)
Oh, kid, gotcha.
Adam (14:06.122)
So it only happens when like something breaks, but it's an error case that happens a graded and zero amount of times just from like network lag and things like that. And maybe the server being a little overloaded at a moment. I'm not sure why like it would fail because ideally we would just fix it from ever failing. But we should recover from failures and kind of accept them as a.
something that will happen.
Ste (14:36.792)
Yeah, well that sounds good. Those two things don't sound too bad. I've noticed the app having, you have to restart it at some point, so yeah, I'm curious what would solve that. Maybe it's a Cordoback thing that's causing it, or do you have like other hunches? I mean, I have no idea, I'm just saying like words.
Adam (14:59.654)
I think one of the only things I remember changing is that I lowered the token duration. Before our token duration was one year. So basically like we generated a token and that token you could use to manage everything in your account for a year. And that's the one that we used on the front end. And I changed that down to 10 minutes. And.
And basically the recommended way of working with these kinds of tokens is that every 10 minutes you generate a new one and that's what they use for the next 10 minutes. So I have a hypothesis that is like if you are using the app you put into you know You switch to a different app and you come back to the app. It tries to use that existing token and the logic to refetch a new token isn't working.
Ste (15:48.244)
Okay, yeah, that's more. Yeah, it checks out. I mean, after 10 minutes, I think, I guess it kinda happens and you have to restart it, but oh yeah, I already have a, that's good.
Adam (15:59.794)
And if you're actively using the app for those 10 minutes, then it won't happen. It's only when you resume the app from, yeah.
Ste (16:05.476)
Yeah.
Ste (16:08.856)
Yeah, that's what I did. Yeah. And that's when it happened. So, it's good. At least we have a theory. I thought that was like very, looked like a really nasty thing. So, I was a bit scared, but yeah, that's good. That's good.
Adam (16:19.85)
Yeah.
Adam (16:24.438)
There were some other annoying ones that were weird, like on iOS devices with the, the search would kind of go above the little area at the top because we weren't taking into account that, like that's top zero on a browser, but that's also top zero on a phone. So you need to move it down a little bit to make room for that little.
Ste (16:39.213)
Yeah.
Ste (16:46.233)
Yeah.
Ste (16:51.468)
Yeah, I know. The island. Yeah.
Adam (16:53.45)
Little things like that on mobile.
Ste (16:56.68)
Yeah, but that got fixed really easily. I mean, I think I just submitted it and I think someone else submitted it and it was like, oh, there we go. Wow. And I'm just working in the back. That's great. Yeah. That's, that's perfect. Yeah. I'm so glad, you know, this release is here and you know, we have lots to build on, on it. I think the feed is moving well. Uh, the way books are shown, the book page.
Adam (17:04.466)
Yeah.
Ste (17:26.284)
is I'm waiting for people to take like full advantage of that book page because there's a lot of stuff in there which is like waiting to be discovered the way we show everything. It's yeah totally new and it's you know very solid. I think it's the most beautiful book page.
Adam (17:27.842)
Mm-hmm
Ste (17:51.792)
from all the other apps. And I don't, I mean, I'm not like exaggerating right now. I think it's like very, very good. We've gotten close to, you know, what we liked about the Airbox, you know, that level of like finesse they had with the designs. I think with this, we finally achieved that. So yeah, proud of us for this. It's been like really good push. It's like...
Adam (18:00.446)
Yeah, I am.
Adam (18:13.258)
Yeah, I.
Ste (18:21.472)
unbelievable from some points of view that, you know, we're like outputting this kind of stuff.
Adam (18:28.51)
Yeah, like we're two people working part-time on this and competing with Goodreads, which has had a lot of problems lately. I keep seeing posts in the Goodreads subreddit about just bugs and server issues and the app not being accessible. And combine that with everything happening on Reddit and Twitter. I feel like we're really, really on a good track.
Ste (18:34.772)
Yeah.
Ste (18:46.105)
Mm-hmm.
Ste (18:51.225)
Oh yeah.
Adam (18:56.746)
positioning hardcover to be a place that, you know, is actually solving problems that readers have. And yeah, I think that transitions well into the next thing we're planning on working on.
Ste (19:09.804)
Yes, discussions. Da-da-da-da-dum. Yeah, I think it's one of the things that we've been talking about for so long. And I think we had a couple of attempts in the early hardcover lives to have a stab at those, I think in the fifth or fourth. And it's been, I think, at least eight months in the.
Adam (19:12.598)
Hehehe
Ste (19:38.648)
six to eight months in the making process, just thinking about how that can happen and yeah, planning for it. So yeah, it's exciting to finally get to the moment where we're actually trying to implement that. So if you're hearing background noise, it's my cat fighting with the trash can.
Adam (19:47.47)
Thanks for watching!
Adam (20:00.692)
No worries.
Ste (20:03.192)
So for discussions, maybe we can jump in Figma because I know you have some sketches. I've done some designs and maybe we can chip away at it and do that. Do you want to share your screen while you go fill some ballots up? Because she's going to be very insistent. She's not going to let us talk. Okay, just one second.
Adam (20:14.58)
Yeah, yeah.
Adam (20:26.354)
We'll do. I'll share my screen and I'll also load some prototypes up from Discord while this day is getting ready here. Let me share my screen here.
Adam (20:48.146)
Here's Figma and.
Adam (20:56.83)
I'll kind of...
Ste (20:59.09)
The ballots have been deployed.
Adam (21:00.982)
Hehehe
Let's see.
Adam (21:08.262)
Is my screen sharing or is it still loading? They're just probably.
Ste (21:11.384)
Oh yeah, we're here.
Adam (21:14.126)
cool.
Ste (21:15.78)
Yes, so I based them all your sketches and I've gotten a few screenshots from Reddit and one from Twitter. And we have these nice designs over here and I don't know, how are you thinking of approaching this? You wanna just like talk about how it can go and...
are like insights based on the first exploration and feedback we got from readers.
Adam (21:54.354)
Yeah, I think it's a good topic. And what I think I would love to get to the point of is where we have like a, like a full walkthrough prototype of like a person views the book page. And then they have like all the other screens that they would interact with to make a post and view a post. And.
That's still only a small segment of the total discussion world. But I feel like that's a good like first couple screens, which I think I already see some of these are getting satisfying that so we can kind of start there.
Ste (22:38.277)
Haha, yeah.
Yeah, that's perfect. Yeah, that's a really good starting point because you're gonna get to discussions from the book page mainly. So you're gonna see the header of the book. So right here we have Cersei by Madeline Miller, and you're on the book page and you go to discussions. And here.
Adam (22:42.007)
Uh uh.
Ste (23:09.636)
there's the issue of how would you view these? So over here on this tab, this is just like a design that I adapted from these earlier ones that you put together Adam, more to the left. And basically this is kind of like Reddit meets Twitter.
in the sense that you have these categories that would be sort of like quick ways to sort through discussions. You'd also have filters. So if you'd want to see only posts which are up to like where you've read from that book or only posts without images or only posts with a certain, you know.
a trait to them, you would be able to do some filtering from here, or at least that's how I thought about it, you know, these quick things over here and this more, let's say, fine filtering. And then just the discussions with the main one and then the...
lies and for the replies, I kind of went the Twitter way where you get shown a couple of replies, maybe the most popular, and then you can dive into a reply. So this is not like Reddit where you get endless replies, but we'll see further down, you know, how that expands. So basically this is like a glimpse of the discussion, but you only get the highlights. So you get the most popular.
posts and you can navigate from here. You can also have discussions with that title which I think is one of the things which will be like really useful for us to have this kind of formatting and I know it's a thing in one of your sketches as well. And a few things like
Ste (25:30.608)
being able to embed lists in discussions. And I had to try for how, you know, a post with an image could be displayed on desktop. So if you'd want to like post a picture of your bookshelf, maybe you'd do this and it writes a bit about it. I think what we want to encourage here is people like writing in depth.
things about their experience with a book, right? So that would be like the main, let's say, goal of this hallway that we've destructured.
Adam (26:21.242)
Yeah, so let's see.
So yeah, this would be like.
Adam (26:31.658)
So anyone who has interest in this book would have created a new post, they'd have entered this in, and then it would show up here.
Yeah, I think one of the things that I'm still trying to figure out is like how much we show on this discussions page versus how much we like bring people into individual discussions and have them view them on like the single page because like this is like if I jumped to straight to this discussion and tried to like kind of read all the way down this that would be a lot of a lot of content on this page for what's
Ste (26:59.856)
Yeah.
Adam (27:11.711)
effectively three posts.
Ste (27:15.004)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (27:16.022)
So that makes me wonder about like, what if, like how would this same thing look if it had three posts and we only showed the title of those posts? And then once you clicked into them, you saw something more like this.
Ste (27:32.96)
Okay, so yeah, that's a good idea. Let me just reorganize things quickly so we can mock up our chief things based on this. So you're thinking...
Ste (27:51.132)
basically have like only this title so maybe this is a review of the book or some impressions reading I'm just gonna be like up to page nobody writes like this but
Adam (28:13.894)
and
Ste (28:16.484)
And maybe you'd get, I'd still want to get, I mean, don't you think that if we just add a title, it could be a bit, let's say too little context for someone. I've been trying to like wrap my head around this idea of, you know.
Adam (28:41.038)
Thanks for watching!
Ste (28:43.3)
What would you write in the title? Because the title, yeah, it has some weight to it. And I'm, the thing which I'm not sure about is how difficult would it be for people to actually like come up with good titles. Actually, let's leave the image as well.
Adam (29:08.658)
Yeah.
Ste (29:09.848)
So actually like stuff which is compelling enough for you to...
Ste (29:18.116)
to click in basically.
Adam (29:19.514)
Yeah, I was, I was looking at how Reddit does that and they have like on mobile, you only see the title and then on desktop you see the title and then like a couple lines of the, like the, the post itself. And if we wanted to, we could use the same like fade out component that we use elsewhere and like you, uh, if you click anywhere, effectively anywhere around, uh,
Ste (29:33.537)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (29:47.53)
Like this entire box, whoop, that is... Doesn't need a fill. Like anywhere around this entire box.
Like that's where it goes into the post itself.
Ste (30:06.481)
Nice.
Ste (30:12.132)
Yeah, I think I get a better idea of where you are going with the post types as well.
Ste (30:25.048)
If it has a title, so yeah, on Reddit that happens pretty naturally. So I guess over here it would happen pretty naturally as well. I'm just curious, what would the titles be in the context of a book? So it would be great to have like some feedback on both of these prototypes to get an idea of. Uh, you know, how.
natural it would be for someone to actually write a title because for me for instance I think I'd rather jump in the post but for many people maybe it's better to write that title and give the whole thing a title. I'm not sure at this moment which one would be better. I think one of them encourages a more structured conversation.
The other one encourages a more open conversation. So I think that's the.
Adam (31:34.92)
Yeah, I-
Ste (31:35.264)
debates, I guess, right here.
Adam (31:38.054)
Yeah, for sure. Like, because on Twitter, Instagram, you know, Facebook, there's no titles for posts. And I think of it more like on all of those platforms, you're making the post for yourself. Like if people join the conversation, it's kind of like an added bonus, but you're expressing your own opinion. While I'm thinking of discussions more of like, I wanna start a conversation with the rest of the book.
community. And if I'm going to start a conversation about the best of the book community, I need to clearly articulate like why they should participate in this conversation without, you know, just having a big wall of text that they have to read. So I feel like that but that that's very specific to discussions or like questions or like if there's a link to another place or even a photo.
Ste (32:09.378)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (32:37.622)
like describing the photo, but then it kind of breaks down if it's just like, Hey, I'm at page 45, here are my progress update. And I feel like that kind of post, it almost gets like a, an automatic title of like progress update up to page X. And it, and it would show up differently. Like it probably wouldn't show up here. Like, uh, because like one person's updating their progress. Another person's asking like a, um,
Ste (32:56.23)
Uh-oh.
Ste (33:00.356)
Yeah.
Adam (33:07.862)
specific question, but maybe we can show those in different places.
Ste (33:09.733)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, that's actually great because I mean, my fear with this is that we're stuck in a format that's hard to get out of. So if we had this kind of discussion that's structured this way, this is great for like having that structured discussion but later on, maybe we'd need to like steer in a direction that makes the discussion more open to our advantage.
And I think there's a way to do that, so both of those things are checked right as we start discussions. So if we do it like this, like a discussion board, similar to Reddit, where you have to add the title, where you have to be really, let's say, put the effort into making it sound like...
you're asking people to start that discussion. I think this will work. Just the way we structure it, I think technically should allow us to at some point and for some types of posts to ditch part of that baggage so that we can like, yeah, exactly. Like you said, if you wanna like post a...
quick impression and you don't write a title about it or you just wanna post a quote from page 75 from a book, you can just do that without worrying about the title and maybe that title only showing up for posts which where the title has like a significance. So already it has a significance. I think
Adam (35:05.726)
And yeah, yeah. And I think this is one of the questions that I, yeah, I want to dig more into with readers as we talk to them, because I wonder how many of them, they feel like they want that because that's all that they know from every other social media platform out there, versus how many of them want in-depth book discussions. And in-depth book discussions require some organization around them. Otherwise, like it's
Ste (35:06.683)
Yeah.
Ste (35:33.189)
Okay.
Adam (35:36.394)
it becomes hard to invite new people into the conversation. But yeah, I was thinking like, if I jump to a discussion page of a book, what would I wanna see the most? And it would probably be discussions about, and this is also a question I asked in like the, I've only done one interview so far, so I need to do a lot more. But I asked like, what would you wanna see there? And they're like, I would wanna see like conversation around.
Ste (35:48.773)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (36:04.99)
specific plot points from the book. Like, so I'd wanna say like, oh, here's a conversation about this plot point, and then go into those conversations and be able to see replies, be able to see what the most commonly held opinions were on that plot point or that part of the book and see if kind of his opinions kind of matched what were most popular from the community as a whole. And if not,
Ste (36:07.084)
Uh huh.
Ste (36:24.718)
Yeah.
Adam (36:31.81)
have a chance to chime in and say, oh, this is what I felt about that.
Ste (36:35.816)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah, that's really interesting. And I don't know. Titles for that kind of thing, especially if we name them titles, might be something that... So you'd want to talk about a plot point about something going on in the book. You could do that through the title, but maybe the title... I mean, for me, the title has...
uh certain significance like it's you have an essay and you have to sum it up in a title kind of like that uh when you want to discuss a plot point maybe you just want to lay out the plot point and you want to get comments so it's more like a quote uh maybe it's even like a quote you like actually put the quotes in there put your uh opinion on the quote and then you let others
Ste (37:34.436)
Yeah, this is a really good point, and it's really interesting that it came up in the interview. I was thinking, what if this editor, because I think right now our, let's say, mission, is to figure out how the editor works. So how are you going to post things? So on Reddit, you post things a certain way.
you select the type of post. I think they moved on to that. I mean, in the app right now, that's kind of like the old way of doing things. Right now, you can insert an image, you can insert media, you can insert things. I pasted the screenshots from the app over here. So you can insert the poll, you can insert the link, or if you tap, yeah, this little thing.
Adam (38:25.07)
Hmm.
Ste (38:30.756)
you can go back to the old editing, which is kind of similar to how Twitter does it. So on Twitter, you can post images, gifs, polls, locations, or is this voice? Yeah, maybe it's voice. So it kind of like converged to this idea of toolbar that you can use to...
add stuff to your post. And I think that's kind of like the way we should approach it while being very careful of what significance that has on the backend. I was thinking about posts like when you'd write an essay about multiple books, so like this one. And usually on book blogs, these have like a really specific.
So you have the title because it's a post. Then you have a description. You have all the books listed and then each book is taken separately and basically offered an overview, maybe a few notes on it. And that's the blog post. So I was thinking, what if book bloggers, we made it the way for book bloggers to actually use the platform to write.
all these posts or like have a duplicate of this post that they post on the book blogs on hardcover. So you can actually follow them and get all of these recommendations and yeah, you'd be able to browse through them. Um, I was thinking if we have this, this is obviously like really hard to edit. What kind of editor would make this possible and would make
uh, the other formats also possible. And it would allow us to have that control, I guess, because yeah, that's what we need to watch out for. I mean, that I'm still like fully agree that we should have like that control. And the discussions at first should be limited to what we think would make them most valuable and that's probably like.
Ste (40:57.328)
the initial model that's, yeah, the simple one where you just have a title and some description, and then you allow replies.
Adam (41:10.386)
Yeah, I think in this prototype here, we were talking about kind of like in that editor. So let's say you've picked a...
you're creating a discussion. Maybe you've clicked in from a book page on like this button where it's like new or create a post or join the conversation about Cersei, whatever it ends up being. And it takes you to a place where it could be like that Reddit one where it had like the toolbar at the bottom, but it could also be something like this where it's like.
Ste (41:39.798)
Mm-hmm.
Oh yeah.
Adam (41:56.63)
um choosing the type of um discussion first whether that's a quote a photo a link or kind of just a general discussion i kind of grouped discussion a question after the fact these are kind of the same
Ste (42:17.672)
Uh-huh. No, that's really good because yeah, I like that mapping because it maps like all the things that you could like think about. Um, yeah, no, go on.
Adam (42:33.25)
And I was thinking like after you select each, whichever one you select, it's going to have different form fields. So like if you, if you're creating a quote, for instance, it's, it's just going to be raw text from the book, um, formatted in the same text as the book. It doesn't need to have a fancy editor because even if like a character name is said in the quote, like maybe a character name isn't said in the quote, but it's about a character or a character saying it.
So kind of like you would also be able to specify the characters that were involved in this quote and the page and addition from it. And then this would, you know, you can have spoilers, but actually you don't even need that because if we know the page and the addition, we know it's a spoiler if you haven't read up to that page of the book. And at this point, this would create a quote, which then people could comment on. It would be a...
Ste (43:18.949)
Yeah.
Ste (43:22.63)
Uh-huh.
Adam (43:31.23)
a threaded discussion about this quote.
I feel like quotes are kind of the easiest one because there's not as much to them. But then like links are one that I thought could be really powerful for us. I think like people love to post their content on Reddit because it gets a lot of attention. Like, you can grow your audience, especially since links live on for a long time on Reddit.
Ste (43:39.802)
Yeah.
Adam (44:05.258)
I feel like we can do something similar where we're creating kind of this archive of links about each book that are being contributed by the book community in a way that we can support those creators on all these different platforms. And so like you create a link to a book, you give it a URL, maybe like if this is a text, audio or video, a title.
Ste (44:23.553)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (44:34.538)
We could grab that title from the URL, but like titles from URLs often have like title, like, you know, some symbol than the site title and then description about the site, so it's better to just enter that.
Ste (44:49.156)
Yeah. I had a question about these, what kind of links? I mean, the first thing that came into my mind is links to a book block, but what are the other types of links where you are thinking about at this step?
Adam (44:50.928)
And yeah.
Adam (45:03.454)
Yeah, this could be an article about the book, like on a book riot or in the book industry on the publisher's website. It could be an article that like, you know, Brendan Sanderson has his own blog where he posts stuff about his books. You can link to any of those. It could be someone is doing a podcast and they're doing a review of a book. They could.
drop the link to the podcast, say it's media type audio. So this is kind of like, these content types were kind of what could elaborate on that, like review, commentary, news, where you're saying like, what is, yeah.
Ste (45:48.652)
Mm-hmm. Mm, okay, yeah.
Adam (45:56.174)
And then this mentions part. I was kind of imagining this like in this description. Maybe I wasn't sure if we even need a description for links or not, or if it should just be the link itself. Could go either way I feel. But like if you started writing a description and you typed like an at sign, it would.
bring up options for like users you follow or authors. Or if you typed a forward slash, it would reference, it would bring up like a search dialogue that you could start typing and it would bring out books, series or characters. And it would link to them within the text of the description but then it would also add them here as like.
these are things that were mentioned that will be linked in this post, if that makes sense. So this is like what we, on the backend, this is what we're actually saving the connections between these two discussions. So we're saving, this discussion references these things and they can choose to remove these but still include it in the description if they want it to be kind of like a hidden one or they could add other mentions that aren't technically.
Ste (47:11.64)
Mm-hmm.
Ste (47:18.969)
Yeah.
Adam (47:22.642)
in the description if it's kind of alluded to, or maybe they don't understand that they can type at or they can type forward slash because I have a feeling a lot of people aren't going to realize.
Ste (47:29.7)
Uh huh, yeah.
That's the thing. I mean, yeah, I mean, these are great because it's, I think basically it covers like every option you have with discussions and every option you need with discussions. I think like my, let's say, or our challenge here would be how is a good way to take all these? And
basically make it so that it's less opinionated in a way that makes it easy for people to do all these things from the same place without having to make these decisions. I mean, make basically taking all of these and putting it together so that all of these decisions, you can do these through a...
uh... thing that through an editor that uh... doesn't uh... make you uh... basically decide what you're gonna post. I think that lowering that amount of uh... you know I wanna post a discussion. Lowering that amount of uh... that time that it takes you to decide you know what kind of discussion I wanna post what kind of content do I wanna share if we get that
to something which is as short as possible. I think there's a big chance it would turn out to be really, really good. So I guess that's what could be nice to explore.
Ste (49:29.176)
What if we take all of these screens and make it so that it's less opinionated and you have the same functionality? Because yeah, those mentions, I think those mentions could be like anywhere on the app. And we'd be the only ones doing this. When you said that, you know, you can tag other people and...
authors who are active on the site with an app and then use the slash command for books. I think that's such an easy way for people to learn how they can use the editor that it takes just a second and you already know how to use the whole thing. I'd like to take as much of the decisions in each of these away. So that's what I've been trying to do with the designs.
And see if there's a way, maybe there isn't, but see if there's a way to make this so that in its ultimate form, because this is like its ultimate form, maybe we won't, I mean, I think like, let's say consensus is that we would start with the easiest like form the discussions would take. So maybe just the title and some comments that you can receive replies to.
which mentions what page you're on, and you can chat to other people about the book. So this would be, I don't know, does this sound like layer one option for discussions or can we make it even more simple than that?
Adam (51:18.75)
Uh, hmm. I wonder if we want to like take into account like at least like different types in V1, like even like.
Ste (51:33.584)
Mm-hmm.
Like links.
Adam (51:37.45)
Yeah, like links or quotes. I feel like I could go either way on photos.
Ste (51:39.324)
Mm-hmm.
Yeah, yeah. Photos definitely seem like a nice to have. I think when people talk about books, the first thing is to write, not to necessarily post the photos, but they will be great for fandoms, they will be great for content and videos as well. I mean, I'd want to see videos of people doing all sorts of things, like reading or reviewing or... Yeah.
Adam (52:07.826)
And that could include links with the media type video for videos elsewhere.
Ste (52:16.164)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah, for TikTok. I'm wondering if these things, the links, the quotes, even the photos at some points, we could organize them in a way that it would be similar to editing a blog post but we limit.
Adam (52:33.646)
Thank you.
Adam (52:43.074)
Hmm
Ste (52:43.852)
depending on where you are, we limit what you can do. So for instance, at first, maybe we limit where you can post links or we limit who can post photos. Maybe it's just for supporters because that would be like a huge cost for us. But we sort of like tweak this editor so that it does what we want it to do. So it gives the discussions the form we want.
but just by tweaking, so it's the same editor, it's not like separate editors.
Ste (53:21.644)
I know how that would work, but it feels like that's the, like one of the directions it could go in because I'm really, I mean, I, the thing here is to allow people to express any type of content they want and to do that in a like natural way without us like mandating, you know, this has to go here, you have to.
this. So that's kind of like how I feel it should go, especially because, you know, when you're, you don't want to post like this stuff on the go. So you're in a bus, you have an idea or you're reading a book, you have an idea about something to post, you should be able to do that like on the go, like in two seconds. And yeah, I'm thinking, you know, if this editor can...
Adam (54:16.834)
Yeah.
Ste (54:19.632)
be limited depending on where you access it from or how, I mean, even your role, maybe if you're like a supporter, you get some features. So that it allows for like really short posts, like a title and some impressions, but it would also like allow for maybe, I'm thinking like, what if, you know, it can actually be like,
platform for. So we have those links to book blogs, but we're also kind of like a substack for books or like content around books so that you can add, you can add a short post, but maybe you can also add a full article about your impressions of that book. So you
Adam (55:14.736)
and
Ste (55:15.6)
can add modular content depending on where and how you access the editor. I don't know if that makes sense, but...
Because it feels like these are a lot of parts which could be combined in a different order. I think that's the thing we could explore. They are the same thing. So we have the mentions, we have the title, we have the description. But what if we allow people to juggle with that content without telling them?
Adam (55:26.474)
Yeah.
Ste (55:54.66)
where to like put everything. I think that would be like maybe a way to, yeah.
Adam (56:01.995)
It's.
Adam (56:05.654)
So for something like this, where we have like, they're really just selecting, like adding a title, and then they have this rich editor to add like any content they want, tag other readers, tag other things, and then as they're tagging them, it's like automatically adding them down here.
And maybe on the equivalent for this page, like there could be like a section here that's like mentions or somethings and it has like a number. And if you click on that, it switches to like a different view that just shows everything you've mentioned in the post. And then you can like go back to the content side. So it's like, so it's almost like there's two views for the post. There's the,
Ste (56:48.956)
Oh yeah, exactly.
Adam (57:04.578)
There's the, um, like authoring side and there's the mention side.
Ste (57:09.124)
Yeah, I love that. I love that. That's perfect. I mean, the sketch for the question actually has a lot of the parts which we need. I mean, apart from links, I was wondering if in questions, let's say it's not a question, it's not we ditch that category. This is the editor, and we insert the way to add links to this.
as well, maybe at the end of the post, or add media, I think, and format the text through the reach editor so you can choose spoilers, like mark them, like select and tap this as a spoiler, kind of like markdown, basically. Have our own hardcover-type markdown for spoilers for this kind of stuff. And be able to add...
Adam (57:54.583)
Hmm.
Ste (58:07.508)
links and the mentions and exactly that kind of like switch from the mentions tab to the content tab. So you have, you can keep track of, you know, what you mentioned in the post. I think that would be like it's, and it wouldn't need to have like that category. And maybe you can add like poems as well or like anything.
which is like an attachment to that. So this to me looks like it's like close to what it can be without having that category. So we're not mandating this as a question. This can be like anything. So we're not adding that extra step, like choose what kind of thing this is, but we're allowing people to kind of like morph.
this through the editor. So if they had an image, that's an image post from our point of view, but they don't have to make that decision. And we categorize it in our system as an image post and we let people filter by. So if you don't wanna see image posts, you can just like tap a thing and maybe filter posts which have images. Maybe you just wanna read, you don't wanna see videos or images.
Adam (59:09.934)
Mm-hmm.
Ste (59:35.476)
And that way you can tweak your feed, but we don't make people choose, but we do that. We make that choice for them depending on how they use the editor. If that makes sense. So yeah.
Adam (59:50.77)
Yeah, I feel like that works for, I feel like that works for like the authoring side. Like it would make it easier. Like if you were just like, you know, you pop it open, you see this and there's like a section down here for like quote and you hit quote and it just like changes this top part to just like, you know, give the, like, let us know the quote and then like page number.
Ste (01:00:12.089)
Yeah.
Ste (01:00:18.064)
Yeah, kind of like a box. Yeah, I think there's something. I was trying something over here on the right with a lot of stuff like these. And I'm wondering if they're like, oh yeah, here it is. So let's say you're on a new discussion and you have these icons. I was thinking if.
Well, some of these, maybe you have a title, you don't need to add the title. But for formatting for...
uh, these, uh, the spoilers for marking your book page, for adding tags, for adding a quote and for adding polls. Maybe it can be something like, I mean, that would be like the, the Twitter or Android it's approach right now. So I'm wondering if we can like make it. So that, yeah, like you said, it's, uh,
Ste (01:01:27.804)
it's changeable and you can add like a quote, you can add this type of things and changes the type of posts depending on what you choose. So if you choose a poll, that's a poll. If you choose a, so there are some things which are tools and some things that change the post type. I don't know if that would be like to, yeah. And the mentions, maybe they would be put somewhere separate. So you'd have like.
Adam (01:01:28.672)
Yeah.
Adam (01:01:45.687)
Yeah.
Ste (01:01:59.218)
Maybe another thing and it would be like, what's it called? The squiggle thing mentioned. Let me look it up.
Adam (01:02:13.715)
Seeing what the fun awesome icon to use for that one is. I'm not sure. It could be like at science, but that's more people focused.
Ste (01:02:15.592)
Yeah.
Ste (01:02:22.194)
Oh, it's actually at. Oh, okay. It's at. Okay.
Ste (01:02:33.177)
Maybe this could take you to mentions and you'd get like a number of, let's say you'd get two.
Ste (01:02:44.605)
the book label.
Ste (01:02:51.732)
I would have like 23 or something.
Adam (01:02:54.614)
Oh yeah.
Ste (01:02:58.084)
mentions or something like that.
Adam (01:03:04.766)
Yeah, let's see.
Ste (01:03:11.032)
And if you tap this, yeah.
Adam (01:03:11.262)
Yeah, something. Yeah. So if you tap that, like would this show up or this like always show up?
Ste (01:03:15.668)
Yeah. Yeah, it would show the characters, the books, the... It would basically show up everything and maybe not like... It would just be like a list of books and characters. Well, not like this. Yeah, but that's... I really like that switch for you to be able to just like see the text and then...
see dimensions, I think this would unlock like really powerful like ways for people to like interact with that. I don't know.
Adam (01:03:58.698)
What about if mentions was even something smaller where it was like, you know.
kind of like all in one line. And it's more like, and then there's like a tool tip if you hover over them. And then maybe on mobile, on mobile it could be like that separate screen that lists them out.
Ste (01:04:12.668)
Yeah. Oh, yeah. Yeah. Mm-hmm.
Ste (01:04:20.885)
Oh yeah.
Ste (01:04:26.276)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, that works great. Uh, that'd be really nice. Imagine, I mean, there are lots of people who like mention like 20 books or something. If you'd be able to mention that and characters and maybe, uh, what else? Uh, yeah. See, yeah. Yeah. That'd be like really, really powerful. I mean, I'm imagining like every book blogger.
Adam (01:04:45.95)
series, genres.
Ste (01:04:55.044)
being able to use this editor to write whatever they want. So if they wanna like have an overview of all the books that are interesting and coming out in September, this year, they'd be able to do that. I'm wondering though, and yeah, this is about like the insight we got from the interview. Someone wants to...
talk about the plot twist. How would that be handled? I'm thinking, you know, maybe it's a tag. Maybe you add the plot twist tag, and then if you wanna discuss plot twists, you just filter out all the discussions that have the plot twists tag. Would that be enough? Or does it need to...
Adam (01:05:44.482)
Hmm.
Adam (01:05:48.494)
Yeah. Hmm. It's, it's almost like on, on links, we talked about having like this subset for content of like, what is the content of this link? It's almost like having that as a, as a, as a thing for like, discussions that way, like the discussion could be a question, a comment, uh, you know, a
Ste (01:06:04.273)
Yeah.
Adam (01:06:18.334)
Yeah, a mention of a plot twist. Yeah. I'm not sure on that one.
Ste (01:06:22.34)
Yeah, that's a good point. Yeah. I mean, I know Reddit has Flare. And Flare is like every subreddit's way of categorizing a post, I guess. I think tags make sense, because you tagged that discussion as something. And some discussions, I mean, at first, maybe it's mandatory to add a tag.
So we have tags about content warnings, about moods, about...
Adam (01:06:55.128)
genres.
Ste (01:06:56.044)
Yeah. About genres. What if there's like a separate category that's like discussion tags, that's like a series of things like question, like pull, like plot twist, like all the like shapes it can take. And you kind of like have at first, at least to add those, or if you're in a book, you have to add those so that people can select if there's a question or.
Adam (01:07:09.005)
Yeah.
Adam (01:07:21.226)
I could see that and we could use those same ones for link for, you know, regardless of the, the type of discussion, like the same ones would be valid in, in links as in discussions. Yeah.
Ste (01:07:30.128)
Yeah.
Ste (01:07:36.684)
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. I'm guessing, you know, if you want to search for posts that link to external content and you want to like, see someone, see all the posts that are linking to external content and that mention a plot twist. Let's say someone has a book blog and they talk about plot twists or a plot twist in the book. They made that discussion. They selected the plot twist tag. They
Adam (01:07:37.601)
Yeah.
Ste (01:08:05.096)
Uh, also, we also know the post has a link to some sort of an external, uh, yeah, some external content. So theoretically, I'm guessing you would be able to filter the discussion. So that's if the discussion, you just like tick discussion has link and it's a plot twist. You select the plot twist tag and then you get all the discussions on that book that are both like they have.
They're not just about plot twists, but they also like link to certain external content discussing plot twists. And this is like a really niche thing, but I'm guessing, you know, people would find a way to like use that to do all sorts of cool things. Like if you want to find fanfiction, you just like search for all the discussions that are tagged fanfiction and linked to external content. And
Adam (01:09:02.903)
One of the things that I'm wondering about for links is, you know, there's a couple of different ways that come to mind for how people would reference a link. Like if you're posting a link on Twitter, you're normally giving like an introduction to what you're posting about and then you link to it. If you post it on Reddit, you're giving a title and you're linking to it. If you're posting it on...
Ste (01:09:04.057)
Yeah.
Ste (01:09:22.718)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (01:09:29.846)
Hacker news, you're giving a title and you're giving the link to it, but you're not really giving like an in-depth, like, like disposition, like a description of the link, you're kind of letting the title do most of the work because otherwise. Like, it's kind of like, if the title's enticing enough, they're going to go read that, do they really need the description as well as the link, but
Ste (01:09:44.228)
Yeah.
Ste (01:09:55.48)
No, it could be, yeah. What do you think? Yeah.
Adam (01:09:58.902)
Yeah, I lean towards just having the title and then not even allowing a description for links and not even allowing people to link within a post.
Ste (01:10:14.18)
in a post, like any post, which is not a link.
Adam (01:10:16.514)
Yeah.
Yeah. So if it's, if it's the only way to link is to create a, like basically post just a title and a link and then not, not how a description.
Ste (01:10:28.524)
Yeah, I'm guessing like, yeah. What if you add a link, you basically remove the ability to add a description or you just like, even if they add a description, we just don't show it or we limit it to a certain number of characters. Maybe some people want like a description besides the title or we just like ditch it. So if you, if you,
click on like add a link and you add a link, you only get the title and you can only post the link. Yeah.
Adam (01:11:07.051)
and then the attacks.
Ste (01:11:09.912)
Yeah, I mean, why not? Yeah, that's exactly like for us to be able to change the form depending on the context without having the users to actually tap something beforehand, without having them make the decisions, that'd be great. I mean, actually, because if you add the link, you'll get in the first moment that if you add the link,
Adam (01:11:11.435)
Yeah.
Ste (01:11:37.712)
we're not going to let you have the description because you're going to have to use that title to like make that link work. So, uh,
Adam (01:11:45.889)
Yeah.
Ste (01:11:49.624)
Yeah, that works.
Adam (01:11:49.822)
It's... And it...
It'll make it like really nice on the, like the data organization side, because we'll have like this, this database of links about a book and we can use that database of links about a book, like for anyone who's like following that book. Like there's so many things we can do with that. We could give, um, feeds of that data and then someone could like subscribe to an RSS feed of like, you know, follow this book on your RSS feed.
Ste (01:12:06.501)
Yeah.
Ste (01:12:21.648)
Yeah.
Yeah.
Adam (01:12:26.334)
And it's a different kind of focused content than tweets with a link. These are links and the commentary isn't there. The commentary is on the link. You go to the link to experience that commentary. But if you want to talk about the subject, if you want to discuss it, then that's where you come to hardcover to discuss it. But you don't need to...
Ste (01:12:40.42)
Yeah.
Ste (01:12:49.228)
Okay, so yeah, that was my next question. Would you allow replies to links?
Adam (01:12:54.834)
Yeah. And I'm thinking, I'm thinking we could even like, remove duplicates on this. Like, you know, if people are, if 10 people are linking to the same article, should that be 10 different discussions or should that be one discussion? It should be one discussion. So by having it, having that unique on the link, we also stop like duplicate discussions and we help people kind of, we help people find a community around that, that discussion.
Ste (01:13:08.856)
Yeah. Nice.
Ste (01:13:22.564)
Yeah, that sounds great. I mean...
I think there's a way for us to do that, just by disabling and enabling things depending on the cases. Because I think now, based on those sketches, we kind of know all the cases. And based on everything we talked about with readers and ourselves, I think there's a way to make all of these possible just by tweaking...
that editor depending on what you do. So if you maybe add a picture, maybe you'd just be able to add a description or if you wanna, I mean, the thing is allowing like the simplest editing to allow the most diverse outcomes. So I think that's like the way to go. And I think it's like.
close, I think it can do all that with just like us being really smart about how we allow those discussions to form. Yeah, because I mean, I know it's going to be like great to have that structured data, especially because every book platform out there has the worst type of...
Adam (01:14:40.642)
Yeah.
Ste (01:14:53.136)
disorganized data. I mean, this is the reason I think Goodwiz is literally imploding, because it's not that mesh of information about books that makes sense. It's crumbling under its own weight. It's got books that aren't there, authors that are mad that their non-existent books are added, like swarms of people who are modifying book data. It's...
It's a mess. And yeah, which is like the reason why, like from an architecture perspective and from a usability perspective, it's like a really great opportunity for us to like do this right, right now.
Adam (01:15:42.983)
Can I do like a brain dump on some comments on this page? Okay, I might make some edits as I go. So I was thinking.
Ste (01:15:47.036)
Oh yeah, definitely go for it.
Ste (01:15:53.08)
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Like copy everything, like change everything around. Because I think right now we can.
Ste (01:16:02.332)
do another iteration on this based on what we discussed and maybe we can show it to people because I feel like it's really, really close to taking the shape we want. And we've got some good comments on Discord as well, which kind of like shape the discussions. I mean, discussions about discussions. Yeah.
Adam (01:16:16.418)
Yeah.
Adam (01:16:26.058)
So I'm thinking we really alter what the high level organization is around books to be more based on discussions, links, and quotes. You would still be able to get to the lists and additions page, but those would be potentially things off of the book info. So you would.
Ste (01:16:37.223)
Mmm, nice.
Ste (01:16:41.049)
Yeah.
Ste (01:16:51.776)
cancel. Yeah, why not?
Adam (01:16:54.666)
Like we already show a bunch of lists. We, you know, you click over to the list page.
Adam (01:17:02.126)
I'm thinking here, what if like these three, or these are all like a drop down. And it's like.
Ste (01:17:13.776)
Oh yeah, you actually have hot. Yeah. I think you can just like, uh, detach that instance and add a Chevron. Yep.
Adam (01:17:26.483)
Yeah, so this would be like, you know, the
Ste (01:17:30.524)
Mm-hmm. Nice.
Adam (01:17:32.022)
things like that, but, and maybe like.
Ste (01:17:35.612)
Yeah, let me.
Adam (01:17:39.574)
Let me change this to... Oops.
Ste (01:17:42.456)
Cheers.
Ste (01:17:52.612)
Okay
I made one with a shoe brunt.
Adam (01:17:55.691)
Yeah, yeah, there you go.
Ste (01:18:04.042)
as well. Yeah, in Figma you unfortunately have to detach them if you don't have like...
Ste (01:18:12.804)
If they don't have those attributes. Oh yeah. So it's going to be friends.
Adam (01:18:16.522)
Oh yeah.
Adam (01:18:20.459)
Nice, that works.
Ste (01:18:23.832)
Neon
Ste (01:18:28.778)
And it's like this, and it's like this.
Ste (01:18:36.94)
It doesn't have the shareback. Okay.
Adam (01:18:40.978)
Right. So these would be like some of the things that you could, this is like sort by, right? This is like sort by hot.
Ste (01:18:47.68)
Oh yeah, exactly. Yeah. We can also have sort. Uh, it can be like, uh, this can be like a quick sort. I don't know what hot would mean. I guess hot would be in the biggest number of comments in the last certain amount of time. So let's say one week or whatever we decide.
Adam (01:19:11.394)
Yeah, it would probably be some formula that takes into account post age and likes. So it's like the average number of likes per day. And then like it's getting whatever, whatever has the highest in that count, whether it's like degrades over time.
Ste (01:19:19.258)
Yeah.
Ste (01:19:22.482)
Mm-hmm. Yeah.
Ste (01:19:29.404)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (01:19:30.718)
Yeah. And then there'd probably be one for like, like all time, like the, um, this would be like, uh, a heart icon.
Ste (01:19:33.168)
Nice. Yeah, my square was thinking, yeah.
Ste (01:19:41.214)
Oh yeah.
Ste (01:19:46.396)
Mm-hmm.
Adam (01:19:47.953)
Um...
Adam (01:19:52.524)
Oh yeah.
Ste (01:19:52.848)
Maybe I'll replace the icon.
with like the simple one. Here we go.
Adam (01:20:00.467)
Yeah.
And let's see. There you go. And then maybe instead of filter.
Um, what about making this? Cause like what we really want from this is for people to select, um, you know, one of those tags like question news. Um, so yeah. So it's, it's whatever, whatever we use on the interface for representing that we can also use here.
Ste (01:20:30.384)
Oh yeah, kind of like type, yeah.
Ste (01:20:44.133)
Yeah.
Yeah, that's great. I did some on mobile. I don't know if I did them for tags, but, ah, yeah, I didn't do it for tags. I was looking at, you know.
easy ways to add your page number and that kind of stuff. Maybe we could have like one around page number as well.
Ste (01:21:13.692)
So it's page.
Ste (01:21:22.494)
or.
up to, and we have page, and this is the one.
Adam (01:21:30.232)
Yeah.
Ste (01:21:40.284)
Maybe like this.
Adam (01:21:40.766)
And maybe that could be like metadata down here, like less a button or a badge and more like.
Ste (01:21:53.192)
Oh yeah, actually put, wait. Bum, bum, bum.
Ste (01:21:59.692)
Yeah, I have a small tag like this page.
Adam (01:22:02.399)
Oh yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
Ste (01:22:06.328)
Yeah, and it can get switched to maybe it's, I was thinking for audiobook, it's actually like minutes. So it can be either page or minute. That's gonna be hard to track, but at least, yeah.
Adam (01:22:09.058)
Thank you.
Adam (01:22:19.23)
And so you're, what you're mentioning is like, the person specified that this discussion takes place at this part of the book.
Ste (01:22:29.42)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. So it's kind of like this. So we've got like a screen here. I was thinking, you know, you could add your progress like through one of those. Well, this would be like a book one. So you could either mention the page number or the minute when you make that post.
Adam (01:22:43.632)
Hmm
Adam (01:22:49.466)
And that could default to where you currently are in the book if you like are. Yeah.
Ste (01:22:54.64)
Oh yeah, exactly, yeah. Mm hmm.
Adam (01:23:01.462)
Cause I guess there's a question on like, is it based on like how far you've read at the time you make the post or do people specify the exact part of the book? I guess both are kind of useful information.
Ste (01:23:17.508)
Yeah, maybe it's...
Yeah, maybe it's not like your progress, you're right. Maybe it's like, where in the book? Book.
Adam (01:23:34.226)
Yeah, I mean, that's the question. Yeah, it's like where in the book?
Ste (01:23:38.148)
location or no not the location well just leave it like page minute they'll figure it out
Adam (01:23:47.302)
Yeah, it's like discussion location or discussing question mark. Maybe it's just discussing question mark. And then it's like, what are you discussing?
Ste (01:23:51.513)
Yeah.
Ste (01:23:57.125)
Yeah.
Yeah. Page number, page or minutes. Yeah.
Adam (01:24:03.262)
and you can give one if you want or skip it.
Ste (01:24:06.552)
Yeah, exactly. I mean, this would be like, if you don't post, it's a general discussion. But if you post, yeah, it gets sorted like with that and we can encourage it. We can even make it mandatory at first. So you have to add your page number no matter like when you post.
Adam (01:24:30.262)
I don't know if we need it to be mandatory, because I'm thinking like, if you've already finished a book and you're just asking general questions about the book, those don't really have a page number. Those are like...
Ste (01:24:38.924)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, true. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah, exactly.
Adam (01:24:44.118)
Like, what are your takeaways on this character, or things like that?
Ste (01:24:48.648)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, it can have like finished reading tag like here and all these.
Adam (01:24:50.799)
But for
Adam (01:25:04.472)
And I was thinking about how we.
how we like separate these visually, like, you know, Reddit has like different colors around each kind of post. I was looking at how indie hackers does their individual discussions with kind of just a, a line between them. But
Ste (01:25:29.916)
Yeah, I would put the line between them. Yeah, definitely.
Adam (01:25:33.838)
That's kind of the minimum for some kind of differentiation.
Ste (01:25:37.08)
Yeah. I was also thinking of having them boxed, but I think the, like, go-to right now is to just, like, have something as little as possible to imply the context.
Ste (01:25:58.768)
So yeah, I guess, yeah, this is a tool that maybe have a bit more spacing.
Adam (01:25:59.068)
Yeah.
Ste (01:26:08.284)
Yeah, it could also be a box. Let's see. With boxes, the padding gets weird, but maybe.
Adam (01:26:18.18)
Mm-hmm.
Ste (01:26:21.156)
If it's a quote, it definitely will have a box around it. I can definitely say that. Maybe it's not too bad. I mean, this is a styling decision and we all know how the feeds initially started like our cover feed. So I wouldn't mind having everything in a box and deciding later if it works or not. What do you think?
Adam (01:26:38.958)
Hehehe
Adam (01:26:50.595)
I think I like it more in those boxes actually. Like it gives each discussion a lot more weight.
Ste (01:26:56.772)
Yeah. So like this.
Adam (01:26:58.418)
I like, yeah, seeing, seeing this though, it kind of made me wonder about almost like putting this up here.
Ste (01:27:08.833)
Oh, up here, yeah.
Adam (01:27:10.962)
and putting it as like a.
Adam (01:27:18.81)
uh how do I change the orientation of this to be um top down like uh like that hmm well I don't know because then it kind of overlaps with the title box
Ste (01:27:29.428)
Oh, okay, so you have. Yeah, of course.
Ste (01:27:36.524)
oh yeah it might overlap with the title box well either way I mean yeah it works like that as well you can see some friends here in your network liked it yeah I'm kind of liking this I mean any style thing like that's you'll probably like tweak a lot
Adam (01:27:39.402)
If it...
Adam (01:27:55.573)
Yeah.
Adam (01:27:59.687)
and
Adam (01:28:03.006)
So yeah, would we want somewhere that it showcases like whether this is a, I guess this is a discussion or a link or would that all be through these?
Ste (01:28:13.293)
Uh huh.
Ste (01:28:17.568)
Well, I could put it here. So maybe.
Adam (01:28:25.291)
Yeah.
Ste (01:28:26.694)
this.
Ste (01:28:30.096)
So you see the replies, you see the page, or maybe you have the page on top, and here you just see like what type of, if it's a link or if it's a discussion.
Adam (01:28:44.202)
Maybe this.
Ste (01:28:44.557)
Yeah.
Adam (01:28:51.478)
this.
Adam (01:28:55.631)
This is feeling like bold, but it's not bold. Oh yeah, it was bold. Right there.
Ste (01:29:01.841)
This can also be like, maybe it's just text. So we don't have to have it in the Serif font necessarily. We just have this.
Adam (01:29:06.972)
Oh yeah.
Ste (01:29:18.96)
Well, the service wasn't so bad either.
Adam (01:29:21.943)
Hehehe
Ste (01:29:26.044)
doesn't really like it much.
Adam (01:29:27.838)
Yeah, I think I do like the serif on. I've grown to like the serif font more and more.
Ste (01:29:32.38)
That's nice. Well, it's a good font. It's a good typeface. So, yeah. It's New Spirit. It's, wait, I think I know the font here as well. It's for the type.
Adam (01:29:38.967)
What's it called again?
New spirit.
Adam (01:29:53.566)
Yeah, I really like it.
Ste (01:29:56.093)
Yeah, there are some. Yeah. Miles Newden and Ricardo O'Loco designed New Spirit.
Ste (01:30:04.452)
Yeah, it's a good fun. That made it.
Adam (01:30:06.915)
Hehehe
Adam (01:30:10.182)
I was thinking for these ones where we show like the mentions, because let's say this could potentially be showing like books, characters, genres, all the things. If we'd want to show them on this listing page or if we'd only want to show that there are mentions.
Ste (01:30:33.016)
Yeah, we could definitely. I mean, I think it would be more enticing to, let's just remove the image for now, to show a bit of these, so maybe just like one row at least, for the discussion that I have mentioned, to get like an idea of...
Ste (01:30:55.824)
these, but I don't know, we can also like have like a number, but I'd show like some stuff in there just to entice you to like go to that discussion.
Adam (01:30:57.985)
Yeah?
Adam (01:31:09.202)
Yeah, I think you're right. Like I know when I'm on the book page and I see like the, all the graphics for like the books in a prompt, for instance, I'm much more likely to engage with that because I'm seeing those other books in the prompt. So it feels like, it feels like that. It's like you, you look at this list, you see one thing that's familiar or interesting, or you want to learn more about it. Then that's when you like, Oh, I'm going to go read this discussion.
because now I have like two reasons to go see it.
Ste (01:31:39.002)
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly. Yeah. Yeah, it's a hook. It's a hook. It can be like pretty, pretty nice.
Adam (01:31:48.354)
Yeah. Um... Yeah.
to
I'm just trying to remember if they were like, let me look at my mockups to see if there are any other, any other things I was thinking. Cause I was thinking like.
Ste (01:32:02.362)
Look at the sketches.
Adam (01:32:09.376)
Um...
Ste (01:32:10.308)
the comments, the likes.
the rows that fade out. Yeah, maybe add a quote in there as well. Let me see if I can like quickly mark that.
Adam (01:32:15.544)
Yeah.
Adam (01:32:19.4)
Oh yeah.
Ste (01:32:24.924)
you would have a box in a box that would show. Or maybe it could be just like a... Ooh.
Ste (01:32:48.188)
for a look at the source.
Ste (01:33:00.584)
So we have this.
Adam (01:33:06.158)
Let's see.
Ste (01:33:08.892)
For quotes we can do so much really nice stuff, like maybe even add images that are generated for the best quotes and yeah, stuff like that.
Adam (01:33:12.91)
Thanks for watching!
Adam (01:33:23.555)
Oh yeah, that'd be neat.
Ste (01:33:29.38)
So maybe kind of like well really rough, but this is a Hashtag quotes
Adam (01:33:48.878)
Thanks for watching!
Adam (01:33:53.262)
Let's see.
Adam (01:33:58.149)
Uh-huh.
Adam (01:34:07.022)
How do I not have this font? I was like, sure, I installed it.
Ste (01:34:11.288)
Oh, I have to send it to you. Yeah. All right.
Ste (01:34:18.552)
I think it might be on the hard drive, the Google Drive for hardcover.
Adam (01:34:26.919)
Oh, yeah.
Adam (01:34:35.995)
Mmm.
Ste (01:34:44.056)
going to put the link in there, right?
Adam (01:34:47.102)
I was going to put a title and then I was going to put the link probably here. Like I was going to do.
Ste (01:34:54.853)
Okay, can you just paste the link? Yeah.
Adam (01:34:58.719)
Yeah.
Ste (01:35:03.685)
Okay, I'm just gonna get like this, right?
Adam (01:35:06.994)
Yeah. And then how's, let's see.
Ste (01:35:11.02)
and we'll have a link icon
Adam (01:35:20.18)
Oh yeah, good idea.
Ste (01:35:35.716)
Yeah, and they can even like have different colors. So maybe if it's link, we have this.
Adam (01:35:35.864)
Yeah.
Ste (01:35:45.816)
Yeah, this is looking great.
Ste (01:35:52.316)
Align this.
Adam (01:35:57.983)
And let me see. So how does, I'm curious to see like how.
Adam (01:36:04.51)
Reddit does this exactly when there's like a link post. I feel like so many reddits have gone away from doing link posts. Link posts, like everything has to be a discussion now, which is funny.
Ste (01:36:09.784)
I think they might get...
Ste (01:36:18.477)
Well, yeah.
Yeah, they're kind of like, there's definitely a shift. So I'm seeing, wow, there's no links. Huh.
Adam (01:36:38.166)
But I think that that's.
Ste (01:36:38.884)
Yeah, I'm scrolling and.
I can't find like one link.
Adam (01:36:47.575)
Yeah.
And yeah, like I know that r slash politics for instance, is pretty much all links and it's like title and then they're set they do like something like this like
Ste (01:36:58.106)
Okay.
Ste (01:37:08.1)
Yeah, they have the...
Adam (01:37:12.901)
Oh, yeah.
Ste (01:37:14.096)
the image, but yeah, I'm thinking we would just stick to the links, not the image because.
Adam (01:37:21.234)
Oh wait, that's a promoted post. Trying to find a post that's...
Ste (01:37:23.12)
Yeah, that's a promoted one, yeah.
Adam (01:37:32.078)
not about anything political.
Ste (01:37:37.508)
Yeah. Well, I'm not finding like anything.
Adam (01:37:44.983)
Uh.
How about...
Ste (01:37:49.964)
I might need to go in about five minutes, I think.
Adam (01:37:54.79)
Oh, no worries. I have to go myself pretty soon too.
Ste (01:37:56.326)
duties calling yeah so maybe we can oh here's the link there we go finally a reddit link that much
Adam (01:38:00.61)
Yeah.
Adam (01:38:08.978)
And it's pretty basic. It's like, if you, and if you click on the title, like if you click on the title, it goes to the discussion or you can jump straight to the post from the link here.
Ste (01:38:10.346)
Oh, yeah.
Ste (01:38:21.316)
Okay, well ours is already better than that. We've got... Yeah. More info in less space, so...
Adam (01:38:24.881)
Hehehe
Adam (01:38:33.186)
Yeah.
Well, I think we're making good progress. I can probably, when I talk to someone this week, I'll plan on showing them this prototype. And yeah, we can kind of just continue the discussion from there.
Ste (01:38:54.84)
Yeah, that sounds good. Yeah, we're making like lots of really good progress and I'm excited to how this will like shape up with the editor and you know, everything. So, all right. Yeah, keeping the fast pace as always. We're not playing around. Yeah, this is great.
Adam (01:39:17.93)
Yeah, I feel like once we like, I was even imagining like how, how like impactful this could be for authors to have like a place for discussions around their books. And I feel like one of the very quick things we'll need after this is authors being able to claim their book. That way when they are on the discussion board, people know that they're the author of the book.
Ste (01:39:33.532)
Yes.
Adam (01:39:45.144)
So I have a feeling that that'll kind of dovetail into this nicely.
Ste (01:39:49.636)
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Yeah, that's a good, that's a good note. I'm really curious about how that's going. I think discussions is, you know, the key to all of this. I think it's like the one of the, everything else will tie into this because it will be like a social network. It would be like what we set out to achieve and yeah, it's actually powerful is that it's actually happening. So,
Adam (01:40:20.984)
Yeah. Cool. Well. Yeah. Cool.
Ste (01:40:22.124)
Yeah, we're doing it. Nice. Well, great. I'm gonna go do the night routine. I'm gonna go grab some lunch.
Adam (01:40:33.435)
Sounds good. Yeah, probably. I think I'm getting a massage later today, so I'll probably head to that.
Ste (01:40:39.192)
Ah nice, some pampering. Okay, that's great. Well, till next week, yeah. Just keep up the pace. Perfect, have a good one. See ya.
Adam (01:40:46.07)
Yeah, talk to you next week. Bye.