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Welcome to Suite Independence, the podcast designed exclusively for established beauty professionals ready to transform their careers and build the salon business of their dreams. Hosted by industry veteran Kristin Kienzle, founder of Utopia Modern Salon Suites, this show is your essential guide to thriving independently in the beauty world.
Kristin, with over 34 years of experience, understands the unique challenges and incredible opportunities you face. She created Utopia to be a supportive, inspiring community where independent beauty professionals can flourish, and this podcast extends that mission directly to you.
Forget the styling tips; we're diving deep into the business and personal development aspects that truly empower your success. Each episode offers insight, inspiration, and clarity to help you succeed and build your career in a healthy way. Whether you're looking to grow your client base, refine your business strategy, enhance your financial literacy, prioritize your well-being, or ultimately own your own salon, Kristin shares the wisdom and actionable advice you need.
Join a community dedicated to empowering beauty professionals to reach their full potential, ensuring their businesses thrive and afford them the lifestyle they desire. Tune into Suite Independence and start building the vibrant career and fulfilling life you deserve.
Ep09
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Introduction to Desiree Brogan
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[00:00:00]
Kristin Kienzle: Today we sit down with Desiree Brogan. She's a nurse practitioner who provides medical aesthetic services at our Cranbrook location. From her, you're going to learn what it's like to work for a national chain that supports you while also staying independent.
Today we are visiting with Desiree Brogan. She is a nurse practitioner at our Cranbrook location, and we are sitting here in her beautiful suite. And [00:01:00] so tell us about yourself.
Desiree's Role and Services at Skin Clique
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Desiree Brogan: Yeah, so I am a nurse practitioner. I work for Skin Clique, so I offer aesthetic treatments and I also offer telemedicine services like weight loss medications hair loss medications, and prescription skincare medications too.
So, I kind of do all sorts of different things. And I also. Still work as a nurse practitioner in the hospital. So I still work here locally in one of our hospitals and I do anesthesia clearances. So I do that part-time. I do aesthetics part-time. And then I'm also a national trainer with Skin Clique too.
So I help train new PAs and nurse practitioners that onboard with skin Clique.
Working with Skin Clique: Flexibility and Independence
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Kristin Kienzle: So you mentioned Skin Clique is a national chain. Tell us how you work with them.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, so, I found skin Clique when I was looking to add in an extra income. Like I said, I work at the hospital part-time, so I had some days available and I wanted to make some extra money, and I wanted to do a job that.
Didn't feel stressful. It felt like something fun and I was always [00:02:00] interested in doing aesthetics. So, I just kind of stumbled across a ad for skin Clique and thought it was too good to be true, but it is true. And they offer opportunities for, like I said, PAs, nurse practitioners or md so advanced degree providers to offer, services, aesthetic services, and their brand is actually based to do concierge services to go into people's homes. And I did that for a while and I really loved the idea of having a space and being able to have somewhere where patients could come to me, especially when I got into doing advanced treatments like filler and microneedling.
And so when I got into those things I looked into having that. Base. But I still do go into the home sometimes to offer like, talk services and that's what Skin Clique is just wanting to bring one aesthetic services accessible into patients' homes, but then also bringing in flexibility and joy back into medicine with the providers.
Kristin Kienzle: [00:03:00] That sounds like it offers you a lot of flexibility.
Are you an employee or an independent contractor?
Desiree Brogan: So I'm technically an independent contractor with Skin Clique. So I get to set my hours, how much I wanna work, how little I wanna work. They do have minimum Standards to make sure that you're staying within their safety standards. But really you can kind of make it as big as you wanna make it, or you can do it very much as a side hustle like they like to say.
So, either way, but yeah, I'm a contract employee.
Kristin Kienzle: That sounds amazing. How does working with skin Cliques set you apart from someone who maybe. Comes in and leases a suite as a nurse practitioner providing those services but is not affiliated with skin Clique.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah.
Training and Support at Skin Clique
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Desiree Brogan: So I think the biggest thing that sets me apart is I'm also backed by a bigger brand of skin Clique, and I have lots of other colleagues that I can rely on.
It's kind of like, if you feel like you're in a big medical practice and you have a case that you don't really know what to do with and you wanna talk to [00:04:00] somebody through that, I have over 700 other colleagues that I can reach out to and say, Hey, this patient's presenting with this. This is my idea, is, what do you guys think?
So I'm kind of backed by having that extra support. Mm-hmm. Because I have a bigger brand, I'm able to offer more to my patients. I'm able to offer more of the different, like filler lines. I don't have to have a minimum contract with certain things. So really, when I'm recommending certain skincare or certain filler, I'm recommending it because I think it's the best for that patient rather than.
This is all I have. Like I, I only carry this brand of skincare. I only carry this brand of filler. This is what I have to use. I have different, different brands that I can actually use. So
Kristin Kienzle: you're not limited by your own ability to purchase inventory or gain access to certain medications and treatments.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah. It it's a wider range. I mean, we don't carry, when we carry different skincare lines, we don't carry everything from every skincare line, but we carry. Lots of different things. I can treat lots of different concerns, especially [00:05:00] with skincare and then the, treatments that I offer.
So you're also a trainer with Skin Clique? Yeah. So I I'm a lead national trainer, so I actually help run the trainings that come through. So, for example, this last weekend we had 30 new, providers with skin, Clique A mix of PAs and nurse practitioners. And we had a couple doctors. And so I am helping coordinate running that the teaching part.
And then the next day we do what we call on hands where they're actually injecting the patients. So, really helping start those providers, starting their new journey of being with Skin Clique. It's really rewarding.
Kristin Kienzle: That probably gives you a lot more credibility with your patients as well. Not only are you trained, but you are experienced and knowledgeable enough to be a trainer.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah. I always tell if I ever meet somebody new, I do tell them that I'm a trainer with skin Clique and I always say, you're in really good hands 'cause I teach people how to do this. So, they should be rest assured. I, do know what I'm doing when I'm [00:06:00] treating their face. Definitely.
Kristin Kienzle: Yes. So why did you decide to go with Skin Clique rather than creating your own med spa?
Desiree Brogan: I would say that. I mean, honestly, the initial reaction for me was the cost, the overhead of having a charting system, your malpractice, your supplies, your contracts, when it comes to your skincare lines, your other products that you carry.
There's a lot of money that's invested in that. And skin Clique. The only money that you're investing with them is to pay for training. And then after that they offer, they give you all of the supplies and then, you know, you make a commission off of the. Services that you provide and the skincare that you sell.
So really it was safe for me to go that route. But the reason that I also continue with Skin Clique is what I have found is the support that I have when it comes. Too if I ever, you know, have a question. Also just having that community feeling, especially being on the training team and those girls have become some of my best friends.
[00:07:00] So, having that community feel, it doesn't feel so isolating. And then I'm kind of running all of this on my own. I know that I have like a bunch of other colleagues backed behind me.
Kristin Kienzle: So how is your ability to deliver services unique as compared to a med spa?
Personalized Patient Care
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Desiree Brogan: I think what sets me apart from going to like a bigger med spa is that it's a very personalized, almost a boutique type of feel. There are. Certain patients that love to walk into, you know, this big med spa and there's a big waiting area and they're greeted by a receptionist and they're given lemon water.
Like some people want to have that. But then there's some people that they just wanna have their appointment with their provider, they wanna walk in and. The first person that they see is their provider smiling back at them. And that's what they're gonna get with me when they walk into Cranbrook.
They're gonna come to my studio and it's gonna be immediately us. And then also when they leave, it's me. If they ever have any questions or concerns, they need refills on anything. They're directly messaging me. It's not going through [00:08:00] receptionists, it's not going through some sort of. Telephone service and waiting for a reply, waiting for someone to call you back.
So I think that I offer that it's a lot more personalized. Also, when a patient comes in, they don't know what they need, but they can tell me what bothers them. We go through all of the different modalities that I offer and how we can get there. And it's sometimes it's a quick fix and sometimes it's gonna be a year long process.
And I like to lay that out for them. And it's a collaborative agreement of like. What do you like, how much time do you wanna put into this versus like, how much time are you willing to give me? So I really like that approach with those patients.
Kristin Kienzle: So they get a very personalized one-on-one intimate experience with you.
Desiree Brogan: Yes, absolutely. Okay.
Kristin Kienzle: So when your patients come in to see you, as you said, they come into the building, they go right to your studio. Do you ever feel isolated?
Desiree Brogan: No. I feel like being within Cranbrook Salon, like there's lots of other professionals that are here that I can lean on for other services that maybe my [00:09:00] patients might need.
For example, we have a permanent makeup artist that's here within Cranbrook, and my patient was. Talking about her eyebrows to me during my consultation. And so I said, you should really reach out to this person and see what services that they could help you with. And actually today when she came in for an appointment, she told me she had an appointment with that permit makeup artist.
And so we I pulled her into my studio and we all three talked together about what would be the best plan for her and if we can coordinate our treatments together so that. She can be treated in her studio and then she can come to my studio, have her treatment, and then she can go home for the day so she can get the treatments of the different things that we both offer.
But it also helps that patient overall
Kristin Kienzle: that is excellent care and a very unique ability to be able to offer that. I love that. Yeah. That's great. That's very beneficial to your patient. Yes.
So when you're working with the national chain, [00:10:00] like skin Clique, what do they provide versus what falls on your shoulders?
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, so I mean, really when it comes to cost things I have chosen to, pay to have a space to inject out of. So that's something that comes out of my own cost, but like when it comes to like my charting services, like I don't pay for that. And when it comes to like billing and those types of things, I just complete my charts and I submit the payment and everything like that.
And then they on the back end review it. And that's how, you know my compensation is set. Based on certain tiers. But I do feel like there's a lot of unpaid work a typical tox patient, especially if it's somebody who I've treated. Multiple times. Their appointment might only take 20 minutes, but there's, you know, the messaging back and forth that's unpaid.
The follow ups, I always follow up with all my patients no matter how many times I've treated them. There's lots of unpaid work, hustle. Social media is a big thing that you're not paid for, that you really have to be present on, especially when you're an [00:11:00] aesthetics. People wanna see your before and afters.
Mm-hmm. They wanna see your face, they wanna know your personality before they book an appointment with you. So there is a lot of hustle to it. And I will say when I'm training new people and I'm helping them kind of set up expectations, you know, some people, they have a whole line of. Friends and family that as soon as they're done with their training, they're ready to be injected.
And then some people don't. And I didn't have that. It was really I had a few people that trusted me and then it was word of mouth. And to me that's, that's almost better because they loved their treatment and then they, they spread that with somebody else and they just, they loved my personality and the way that I approach things.
And so, the word of mouth and that like small snowball effect has just really been a genuine I feel like my patients really. They come to me for me, not that they searched Botox, where to get Botox in Wichita. And they found me, and that's how they end up in my chair. That's so and so recommended you.
She said you were the best.
Kristin Kienzle: You are very easy to get to know and [00:12:00] trust. Thank you. I don't doubt that one bit, that you do very well with referrals and your social media is super fun. I love your
Desiree Brogan: posts. Oh, thank you. It's very well done. Yeah, thank you. It's fun. I like to be silly on social media.
It's a little creative outlet, so.
Kristin Kienzle: Well, I think it's very real and it's very authentic. Yeah.
Social Media and Patient Engagement
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Kristin Kienzle: And so then you feel like you get to know you, which makes it easy to trust you and as you're coming as someone with a needle. Yeah.
Desiree Brogan: So, and I always like to tell people. When I'm doing a certain service or if I'm offering GLP, I like to speak from my own experience first if I can, and then maybe speak to a patient or a friend, their experience.
So I, I'm very open about my, my own GLP journey, and so when I talk to my patients about their GLP and what to expect and tricks that have worked for either me or for patients, I really like to make it personalized so that they just feel like. They actually know that, and it's a little bit of personalized [00:13:00] touch.
Kristin Kienzle: Well, I will tell you this is a true story. I, of course, going through menopause, gained a lot of weight and was very frustrated, but I was very resistant to GMPs. And when you did a post. Of yourself year before and after. I'm sure it was super vulnerable. You were in your home gym. I had never noticed that you had weight to lose.
Mm-hmm. But then when I saw your results, I was like, wow.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah,
Kristin Kienzle: I, your results were great. Although, like I said, I didn't look at you as someone who needed to lose weight, and that's what inspired me to talk to you about it. And so. Yeah, that, that was good. Hopefully other people talked to you about it
Desiree Brogan: as well and went for it.
Yeah, I do feel like once I was able to myself share that mm-hmm. 'cause that was also hard for me to share. Being someone who worked out five, six days a week and counted my macros and steps and all the things and I felt like nothing was working. So I decided to just. To just try it. Like there was no, to me there was like [00:14:00] no harm.
Like there's nothing worse that could happen. Like it might just help. And it did. It was just like, like I talk about it on my social media. It's just like it was an extra tool in my toolkit. 'cause I still do all of the other things. It's just like I needed to add another little thing to just kind of, it's like putting the key right, right, right in there and turning it and then my body just responded.
Great. And so I think there's a lot of people that. Resonate with that. Mm-hmm. That they are also trying all the things, or maybe all the things that they used to do just do not work anymore. Mm-hmm. They, they're avid runners or they always counted their calories and it just doesn't work anymore.
So, I think by being able to just open up and share that, it really helped a lot of people.
Kristin Kienzle: How do you decide what to be vulnerable about on social media?
Desiree Brogan: You know, I'm really an open book and I sh will share pretty much anything on my social media. They'll see me. Microneedling my face on screen. There's not a whole lot I won't share about, but for whatever reason it was hard for me to share about GLP.
But I, just knew that it was going to [00:15:00] help other people. Mm-hmm. And I think that if someone can. Look at someone who looks like you or maybe is in, the same age as you or whatever it may be, they can see themselves in you and your story, and you're able to share that. It makes them feel more comfortable asking for help or realizing.
Okay, that might help me too. So I, I always talk about my talks or my filler and my sculptra. And when I had my lip filler done, for example, I bruised pretty bad on my lip. And I was very vulnerable and I shared that on my stories and I talked about it. Because people don't want to bruise and it's, I'm sorry, like I'm putting a needle in your face, you're gonna bruise.
Like, I'm trying my best not to, but it's gonna happen. So I think the more that I can share about. This is real life. This is the real experience. This isn't the filtered social media experience. I think people really like that.
Kristin Kienzle: I think
that builds trust significantly. Yeah. And knowing that you may bruise and seeing that you bruised, but then a week later it looks [00:16:00] great.
Yeah. I think that's very beneficial to see. Yeah. People like to know what to predict and what's really gonna happen. And like you said, I think so many. So many people gloss things over on social media and make it all look perfect, and then you're so disappointed when you don't have that outcome. So that's good.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah. I feel like whenever I go to another injector or any kind of like aesthetic providers stories or on their page and you can tell their photos have been filtered or when they're talking to you on stories and you can tell they're using some sort of filter, it's just. Disingenuine, like mm-hmm.
You're, I'm never gonna use a face filter, you know, like I have beautiful branding photos done, but like outside of that, you're never gonna see me Photoshop or photo tune, any sort of things on my face. I come as I am. I love that.
Kristin Kienzle: So you talk about your business being built by referrals.
Referral Program and Events
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Kristin Kienzle: What do you do to make it easy for people to refer to you?
Desiree Brogan: [00:17:00] Yeah, so, any patient that I treat, if they send me anybody, they will get a hundred dollars referral credit for each person that they send to me.
So that's a lot. Yeah. So I usually will send them, I have cards, but they don't have to have a card. They can just tell me Kristen sent me. Mm-hmm. And so as soon as I complete their treatment, then. You have a hundred dollars waiting for you to use. On your next service. And I actually had someone utilize that yesterday 'cause she sent her sister to me.
So, when we were checking her out, she had a hundred dollars off of her tox treatment.
Kristin Kienzle: Was she surprised or did she know it was there?
Desiree Brogan: She remembered, but she forgot that it was a hundred dollars and so she was really excited that it was a hundred dollars. Yeah. Yeah.
Kristin Kienzle: Oh, that's great. Do you have a lot of people who are motivated by that or do people just share because they're happy with their service and they like you?
Desiree Brogan: They are definitely motivated by it. It actually recently increased to a hundred. It used to be only $25. And most people didn't really like think about it, but now that it's a hundred dollars per referral, that's huge. And so, another thing that I [00:18:00] do offer is events. So if someone wants to host a talks event they can have.
Themselves and at least three of their friends. And so each one of those friends, if they're a new patient to me, they get a hundred dollars for each one of them. So
Kristin Kienzle: Wow. Those are great incentives. Yeah. Very good. Okay.
Transition to a New Location
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Kristin Kienzle: So you said skin Clique covers a lot of things for you, but one thing they don't help you with is your rent. Mm-hmm. Was it scary to go out on your own? How did you decide to be brave enough to take on the commitment of a lease mm-hmm. And a rent payment?
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, so, originally when I started with Utopia, I started out west at Tyler Point.
And at the time where I was in my business, I did not feel like I was making enough. Revenue to, cover the rent to make it justifiable. So there was another skin Clique provider who was also in the Wichita area, so we split the rent and we shared a space out west. And then last fall she took another opportunity.
[00:19:00] So, I live. More on the east side of town. So I had reached out to you of finding a space on the east side. 'cause I kind of felt like once I took the plunge of having a space, I didn't wanna go back to only being concierge. I loved having this, I loved having the studio a space. I loved renting from you.
So I, I just kind of took the plunge and decided to come out here. And I will say that my revenue has skyrocketed.
Kristin Kienzle: Oh, I didn't know that. Yeah. So that's great news.
Desiree Brogan: I actually, at the time when I compared numbers, I actually made like 65% more in, in my own commission by going into a space, and that was sharing that space with the other providers.
So, I just took that plunge to just go in on my own take the bet on me, and so I've done. Fantastic. Out here at C Brook. So, so you've done better since you've moved? Yes. I have had more commission. Increase since moving out here. Great.
Kristin Kienzle: Yeah. Great. Has your clientele changed?
Did the West side people come with you and you've gotten new or how's, [00:20:00] how's that working?
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, so, I still have a handful of people that I do in home for, ever since I went into the studio space. And I do have one that she was seeing me at the West Side location, but once I came out here I am now doing in-home services for her.
But for the most part, most of my clientele was already out east, so most of them have stayed with me. But I do have my west side ones that they'll, they said that they'll drive wherever they need to to see me, so I didn't lose anybody by coming out east. I do think that I have gained some new people by coming out east.
So great.
Kristin Kienzle: Mm-hmm. And this works better for you personally? It's closer to home. Oh yeah.
Desiree Brogan: It's may, it's way closer to home that if someone needs a last minute, you know, skincare pickup or if I'm always open to adding someone on the weekend if they need to. So if someone tries to squeeze in on the weekend, I can just run up here real quick.
And yeah. It's much more convenient for my life. I feel
Kristin Kienzle: like I've noticed that you can pop in Yes. A lot easier. Mm-hmm. And be a lot more flexible over here. Yes. That's [00:21:00] great.
So making a big change like that is pretty brave. How do you manage that transition and trust that your clients will come and how do you navigate all those changes?
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, I think that the first part is my patients. They love and they trust me. It's that building trust with my patients.
I've seen them multiple times and they like, my personalized touch and they like their results. So they wanna continue that and they wanna keep that continuity of care with me. So I think that just being excited and they were all excited for me. They knew that it was closer to home for me.
I didn't really have anybody that was disappointed that I was moving to the east side, from the west side. And then also just accommodating, like I said, the one that. Couldn't come to the studio anymore. Just making sure that I still have that concierge service available that she can utilize that.
Kristin Kienzle: You know what's interesting too? I'm curious to know what your clients thought of this. When you moved from the west side to the [00:22:00] east side, you went into a space that is identical. Mm-hmm. It is set up. Everything's in the same place that it was before and you duplicated it. Exactly. Yeah. Same walls painted the same colors, same shelves.
It's, it's like deja vu. Yeah. But you, you literally like picked it up, moved it.
Desiree Brogan: What, what did they, were people surprised at that? No, because I talked to a couple of them about it. As they knew I was moving and I, told 'em, I don't know if I'm gonna change everything. I just love my space.
And I just remember someone just being like, then just don't, just copy and paste. So that's what I did. You did. And that was my request. It was like, I just want you to. Copy and paste. I mean, even like the orientation of my room is the exact same. Yes. So, all of it is the exact same. I did have to add one more shelf to my skincare because I started carrying a lot more here in this.
That's a good studio. That's good change. Yes, it's a good change. And then my sign has just my name on it on my door, so I had to change that.
Kristin Kienzle: That's really cool. That was fun to see it happen, [00:23:00] just exactly as you said it was going to. Yeah, so do you feel that you bring something different to the table versus maybe an RN or a esthetician who injects?
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, I think that, there are RNs that and aestheticians that they have completed training that requires them to do talks and filler and they have good results. I also think that patients sometimes aren't aware of the risks that come along with filler.
And so I always tell patients, for me and for what I can offer for them is that if there is sort of an. A type of complication that can arise. 'cause we are putting needles in your face and it is very vascular and there are chances of there to be complications. They're rare, but they are there. I always tell patients that I'm gonna be the one managing that I'm gonna be the one that I'm.
Has to dissolve it and help that complication if we need to. Where I always tell patients I don't know what [00:24:00] everyone else's protocols are, but this is my safety protocol. That's a conversation I always have with my patients before we do filler, that I have the emergency medicines here. I have a protocol in place if something was to happen and that I'm the one personally that's going to be taking care of you.
That's a game changer. Yeah, I would think.
Kristin Kienzle: Yeah. I, oh, go ahead.
Desiree Brogan: I think it helps kind of set people's mind at ease that. You're not only gonna be the one that's gonna be treating me today, but if something bad happens, you are also still going to be with me and it's gonna be a familiar face that's gonna help me through it.
Versus if something bad happens and you get handed off to maybe a collaborating physician or a collaborating provider that oversees that injector,
Kristin Kienzle: I think it means a lot that you're equipped and educated and certified to be able to handle anything that could. Unfortunately arise.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah.
Safety and Training Protocols
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Desiree Brogan: The one big thing with skin Clique is offering safety to all of our patients.
And that's why they're very [00:25:00] adamant about the way that we are able to train for advanced, procedures. So when you first sign on with skin Clique, you're able to offer tox, injections skincare, sales, chemical peels, but then you have to build a patient panel of a certain standard number before you can even apply to have the next step of filler training.
And then once you're able to learn that filler training, it's only a. Certain areas you're allowed to treat. And then once you've been treating those well, you've had good outcomes, then you're able to advance into other training. So it's a step process because we wanna make sure that. The provider that's offering these services, that they're, they have the panel to sustain it so that they are staying safe when they're doing these trainings or doing these procedures.
That's really important. 'cause sometimes people go to a filler training and they may be injected. One little area and then they come back and they offer treatment for full face or they [00:26:00] don't see a filler patient for six months and then they see another one. And that, that's a risk that you could be taking.
Kristin Kienzle: And nobody's gatekeeping them from doing things that they're not actually able to do. Well. Yeah.
Desiree Brogan: You have to have someone that's good. You have to have people of integrity. Mm-hmm. To say. Yes. Like I can do this safely. But skin Clique sets you up to where you just aren't able, you can't offer those services if you're not already able to.
See patients, your tox patients safely, those beginner filler patient safely, and then they can move you on into the rest.
Holistic Approach to Patient Care
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Kristin Kienzle: How do you communicate this level of safety and care to your clients? I'm sure that's hard to articulate everything you just said with every new client, but I think it means so much and it matters and it would be, or your patients, I'm sorry.
But I think it's important.
Desiree Brogan: Yeah, I think it's hard 'cause. A lot of people do chase a number. I get a lot of messages. How much do you charge per unit? How much do you charge per syringe? When really like the [00:27:00] concern is. Well, what area are you wanting to treat? What is, what is your concern?
Maybe you're concerned about your lips, but if you don't have a chin, then I put these big old lips on your face, you're really gonna be unbalanced. So that's where coming in with a full consultation, really going through what is your skincare routine look like? Are you interested in any other services?
Because treating the patient wholly as a, in a holistic approach rather than just. Well, they want their crow's feet treated, treat their crow's feet and send 'em out the door. We still need to talk about protecting your skin with SPF. Are you using a nightly retinol? What other skincare services could they, they possibly could benefit from microneedling, help fade out some of those lines.
So, it's hard in this society to feel like we have to make sure we're. Staying competitive with prices, but I think if a patient understands that you're treating them wholly naturally giving them that natural result by treating their face entirely versus just one [00:28:00] area,
Kristin Kienzle: you can't really put a price on that.
Conclusion and Contact Information
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Kristin Kienzle: You can't. Well, Desiree, thank you so much for doing this with us today. It's been fun learning a lot more about your business than I ever knew. And so if I'm someone who wants to get ahold of you for services, how, how, where would I find you?
Desiree Brogan: You can find me on Instagram or Facebook.
You can just look up Desiree Brogan np, and you'll find me.
Kristin Kienzle: Okay. Also, you can go to the Utopia website and go to the Cranbrook location. Scroll down and find Desiree, and I think your phone number might be there. Yeah, if somebody wants to just get direct access. Yep. And give you a call or a text.
Mm-hmm. Yep. They sure can. Well, thank you. You're welcome.
[00:29:00]