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Diagnosed with Complex Trauma and a Dissociative Disorder, Emma and her system share what they learn along the way about complex trauma, dissociation (CPTSD, OSDD, DID, Dissociative Identity Disorder (Multiple Personality), etc.), and mental health. Educational, supportive, inclusive, and inspiring, System Speak documents her healing journey through the best and worst of life in recovery through insights, conversations, and collaborations.
Over:
Speaker 2:Welcome to the System Speak Podcast, a podcast about Dissociative Identity Disorder. If you are new to the podcast, we recommend starting at the beginning episodes and listen in order to hear our story and what we have learned through this endeavor. Current episodes may be more applicable to long time listeners and are likely to contain more advanced topics, emotional or other triggering content, and or reference earlier episodes that provide more context to what we are currently learning and experiencing. As always, please care for yourself during and after listening to the podcast. Thank you.
Speaker 1:Okay. Therapy today was a game changer. I almost got an entire timeline out and a chunk of change. Not really. I just heard that on the news this morning and thought I could use it in a sentence.
Speaker 1:There was no change involved. Well, change in me. Right? So we talked about what happened with our previous therapist. Everything from the good years that were safe and helpful and the struggling years where everything started to change.
Speaker 1:We feel like we messed things up with a painting, that that was the beginning of the downfall saying goodbye on the top 10 episode, trying all summer to get our notebooks, and then the women's conference in the fall where we went to learn about friendship and thought it was being offered to us and the retreat Halloween weekend where we helped and participated and stayed to learn and knowing that that weekend changed everything and that we could not go back to therapy, Going that Monday to our last time at that therapist's office ever, knowing it was our last time, crying all the way through it, being told to step into and to turn towards and all of those things about embracing these new friendships, going away to The Middle East, sending the letter that we would not be back in therapy because everything had changed and because we were trying to be present with our family, not knowing how present we were about to get. Thank you, pandemic. But wanting to not make that long drive anymore and needing to be present with the family between deployments instead of on the road in therapy and the wildfires in California, the birthday party, the trip to ISSTD, which was then canceled, and the pandemic hit.
Speaker 1:Trying to see a new therapist but not being able to go across state lines and so having to find another therapist even though our previous therapist did the official work of transferring us, that didn't work. Spending the two years of the pandemic trying to find another therapist, moving out to the country, not hearing back from our friends, getting to trying so hard in the ways we knew how to connect with them, which we now know is fawning and attached cry, leaving us in an emotional roller coaster of a disaster leading up to the suicide attempt. And then finally coming to terms with the loss of that therapist and our friends, which is so ironic because in the beginning when it all started, we thought we had to give up our therapist to keep our friends. And in the end, we lost both the therapist and the friend. And it was so devastating.
Speaker 1:And that circle just being closed off, closed for repairs, do not enter, they're not coming back. The therapist now reassures us that they're still there, but I don't think things will ever be the same, not like before. Like, that broke us. That broke us. So here we are, these years later, therapy for therapy.
Speaker 1:Again, I keep thinking, oh, it's so much better now, but here we go. So being able to put all the pieces in a timeline and connect the pieces of what happened to who and who did what and not about blame, not about shame, realizing just what I thought was being offered is not what was being offered. And what I thought was real was kind of of an illusion that was not real for me, which is why we recorded the footprints episode. Right? So learning to listen to other parts because they are telling truths that we need to hear even when they make us uncomfortable.
Speaker 1:And we ourselves may also have truths that they need to hear and about none of it being about just good or bad or safe or not safe. And that is where we went in therapy today. That was a game changer. So in TIS, the thing that's really good about this is that now time is safe when now time is actually safe. But one of the things one of the things that the pandemic taught us is that now time is not always safe.
Speaker 1:So if you are in an active ongoing trauma, now time is not safe, and it's okay to call it for what it is. Right? That's important information. You as a system need to be able to recognize what is not safe. And there are lots of us that kind of have these polarized parts where some are very Pollyanna or some are very fawning or some are very let's think positive, let's focus on what's so good, don't be afraid, da da da da da.
Speaker 1:And others have these trauma holding parts or protector parts or irritable parts that are really good at seeing what's wrong and not okay. You guys, the reason you have both kinds of parts are because you are having both kinds of experiences, and both are entirely valid. This is why we talked about toxic positivity. It's not that being positive is bad. It's that being positive instead of acknowledging danger that needs to be acknowledged or instead of acknowledging challenges that need to be looked at or instead of being aware of safety issues that need to be communicated about or dealt with, that's an illusion that things are only positive.
Speaker 1:This is not the same thing as affirmations or trying to look on the bright side or holding on as the best you can until therapy gets better or easier or life gets better or easier. I'm talking about toxic positivity is only when you are only looking at positive instead of the whole picture. Looking at the whole picture and finding the good about it is fine. That's very healthy. There's nothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1:There's nothing wrong with being positive or choosing a positive outlook, but you can't do that at the expense of truth. That's what makes it toxic. Right? Because then you're gaslighting yourself. In the same way, for very beginning skills, NTIS is super, super helpful in learning the difference between memory time and now time, and I don't think there's anything wrong with that.
Speaker 1:And it can be super, super useful to write it on your hand or to write it down or to have a sign or a bear or something that reminds you that now time can be safe. But as we get further into therapy, like what we talked about today in our session, was that now time is safe because we're the ones who make it safe. It's not just magical. It doesn't just happen on its own. And when we can work together with all of our parts or all of our alters or however you wanna talk about it, when you can look at the whole picture with feedback and information from all of who you are, then you can, in a healthy and appropriate to the circumstances way, make choices to keep yourself safe even if things are hard or difficult.
Speaker 1:And in that way, now time can be safe. But here's the thing. When we talked about part of why our system collapsed in 2020 and why everything broke down, Our therapist used these words last week that were really, really good about how it was like how a switch got flipped from now time is safe to all of a sudden now time is not safe. Now time was not safe because there was a virus nobody could see that you could die from. And now time was not safe because the husband left to go care for his parents, which was good for him and the right thing, but like, the last thing we needed.
Speaker 1:Right? Now time was not safe because we didn't have a therapist. Now time was not safe because our friends were not our friends. And now time was not safe because we didn't have enough food or enough money or enough resources or whatever, whatever, whatever. And so there were lots of reasons that now time was not safe, and that's why things got so scary and why things got so dark.
Speaker 1:Because it was true that now time was not safe, which made it really hard to tell myself that it was safe because it wasn't. And I don't need to be gaslighting myself or lying to myself or pushing away protector parts that are actually doing a good job trying to take care of things that are not safe because that's their job. So she said, instead of just flipping the switch back on of, oh, now the pandemic's over or the husband can visit close because we moved closer or we have enough food or whatever you wanna fill in the blank that makes now time safe again. It's not like it's not like you can just flip on a switch. Like, I'm like, if we can just flip the switch back to now time is safe, we have a therapist, we know where the husband is, The children are back in school.
Speaker 1:Like, if everything is safe and taken care of, then what happened to the circle one? Where are these people that are supposed to be here that are not here anymore. And she's like, no. I promise they're still there even if you don't have access to them. But, also, we don't need to push that because if there's a reason we don't have access to them, we need to respect that reason.
Speaker 1:Okay. So I'm gonna be respectful because that's not my job. But no. I'm kidding. So she says, instead of thinking of it like a light switch, what if we thought about it as a dimmer switch?
Speaker 1:And as we talk about things that are safe or that you feel safe enough talking about even though they're hard, what if we just use the dimmer switch and just turn the lights back on a little bit at a time? And you all can have control of the light switch. And I'm thinking, this is perfect actually. Because do you remember back in the day when therapy was awesome, how we learned how to hang lights inside, and we had these Christmas lights set up, and we had this whole system that was really working for us at the time, and it was really brilliant, and it was very soft and tender and positive and good and all the good feelings. Right?
Speaker 1:Like, that was amazing therapy, and it was such a breakthrough to have the lights back on. Except it was our therapist who basically plugged in the lights. And so when we lost her, it was like we lost the lights, and everything went dark. So she's saying, I'm curious if it's not really that the others are gone so much as you just can't see them because the lights are still out. And I'm like, okay, smarty.
Speaker 1:What's going on here with this? But she says, if we can just turn the lights on a little at a time as people feel comfortable, as people feel safe, as we start to reengage with therapy, let's talk about this dimmer switch and you all exploring what helps the lights come on and how what helps the lights go back down. Because there are times it is safe to just turn the lights out. There are times that is the safe and right and healthy thing to do. There are times that it is right and healthy not to reach out or to take a break or to say, no.
Speaker 1:I can't put myself through that anymore. That's amazing. And we need to acknowledge that and hold space for that. So after therapy last week, we kind of did this art thing which we shared on the community. I think we shared it on the community.
Speaker 1:That was kind of a light switch with now time is safe on the top with light behind it, and now time is not safe on the bottom with darkness behind it. Right? Like, theoretically, that was the idea. And we kinda left it out for the week to let people like, what are things that are not safe? What are things that are safe?
Speaker 1:And kind of drawing on this piece of art, right, to kind of think about what happened that made the lights go out and how do we turn the lights back on. But she suggests that that is a binary concept. Now time is safe or now time is not safe. She says we don't need to make it so binary. What if instead what if just like we have a dimmer switch for how safe we feel or how engaged people wanna be in therapy, what if we have, like, a dial switch for safety so that we can adjust instead of flipping between now time is safe or now time is not safe, what if we have now time is safe enough?
Speaker 1:Now time is safe enough. So that even can have some context. So, like, for example, I have to drive to therapy because I wanna go in person, but it's hard to find a DID therapist. So once again, I'm having to drive a little ways to get there. But it is safe enough because I wanna be there, and it's worth my time and worth the finances of the gas and the time to pay for therapy as best I can.
Speaker 1:And so maybe for some people, that's like a 10. I wanna get in my car and go to therapy. That's safe. I'll make it a 10. It's a 10 of safety.
Speaker 1:So I could dial it all the way up. Or maybe you're like me, and you had a mom who was killed by a drunk driver. So having to drive a long way to get to therapy can actually be a bit triggering. So I know that the chances of that also happening to me are pretty low. Like, in some ways, my mom did me a favor because since that happened to her, chances are less likely it will happen to me.
Speaker 1:I'm just saying statistically speaking, she did me a favor. So maybe for me, if I were completely freaked out, it would be like a three, and it's not safe enough for me to do the driving. But maybe I can manage that anxiety with resources I have like peppermints or taking some soup with me or some good music or listening to podcasts or or something or having a blanket in my front seat, like, all kinds of things that I could do to take care of myself enough to make driving to therapy safe enough that maybe I could turn my dial back up to seven, which is not a 10, but a seven could still get me to therapy. Right? But maybe it's a tornado kind of day where the weather is terrible.
Speaker 1:That's gonna put it back down at a two or a one. I don't need to be in the car. That is appropriate information for my body and my brain to have that I don't need to be in the car in a tornado. Or maybe it's a snowstorm and there's ice and snow and it's not safe to be on the road, then it is appropriate that my safety meter goes down to a one or a two and I don't get in the car. But if it's a beautiful spring day and going to be a gorgeous drive and I can manage my anxiety, then a seven is okay.
Speaker 1:Is it ideal? Like, therapy is not next door, So it's not a 10, but I can manage that. A seven is safe enough to get me to therapy. Does that make sense? Isn't this a game changer?
Speaker 1:But do we get to leave it at that? No. No. We do not. Because therapy.
Speaker 1:And so she says, we could even be curious about this in other ways. And I'm like, what are you talking about? And so she goes back into how safe and not safe is really a binary concept and that we don't need binary concepts. We need to see the gray. So she says, what about your husband?
Speaker 1:How safe is he? And I'm like, well, he's a man, so he doesn't get a 10. No. I'm just kidding. No.
Speaker 1:That's no. That's true. Okay. I'm not kidding. I'm kidding about kidding.
Speaker 1:So we'll put him out at nine. Okay? Because he is very kind. He is very accepting. You guys have heard him.
Speaker 1:You've gotten to know him. You've talked to him in on video or whatever. Like, he's very chill, very safe, but also a dude, but kinda not very much of a dude. So I don't mean that, wow. That sounded worse than I thought.
Speaker 1:I didn't mean it like that. So, like, we're gonna put him at a nine. And she says, well, that's great. That's why he's one of your safe people. Right?
Speaker 1:And I was like, yes. Safe people in TIS. And she says, well, what about when he's depressed? Oh, because when the husband is super depressed or they're changing his meds or he doesn't have his meds, thank you shipping crisis, then it's actually a problem. He does not become unsafe.
Speaker 1:Like, just because he is depressed doesn't mean he starts beating me up or something. Right? He's still the safe husband he's always been, but it's a lot more triggering because his depression is a trigger for me because my mother was super depressed. And I think that that happened with my previous therapist. When her depression was up, it was harder for me to get through to her and that was triggering even though she was a safe person and doing good work with us.
Speaker 1:Or when my kids are screaming at me. We talked about that example. Like, I love the outside kids. Right? The answer is yes.
Speaker 1:Please say yes. Yes. We love the outside kids, but some of them really struggle with emotional regulation. So it's super triggering when I'm getting beat up by a child and screamed at even though I am there to be the parent. But so can I dial down the safety?
Speaker 1:Yes. The therapist said it is never okay for anyone to be screaming at me, and screaming is probably always gonna be a trigger. So it's okay to dial down safety in those situations. But also in those situations, I'm the parent. I'm the adult, and I know what kind of parent I want to be.
Speaker 1:And I'm in therapy to regulate myself so I can help them co regulate until they can regulate themselves. So that turns the dial back up a little bit. So even if we're at a five or a six, that's still safe enough to parent well even though it feels unsafe, and I can acknowledge what feels unsafe and what feels uncomfortable by dialing it down to a five or six instead of it being some beautiful nine or 10 Play Doh moment of let's paint what we created out of clay and it's perfect. Right? So there's no parenting that's perfect, by the way, because that's binary.
Speaker 1:Right? Do you see? So I can be a good enough parent just like I need good enough caregiving myself, whether that's from my therapist or in my relationships or even with my friends. I don't have to have friends who are good friends or bad friends or be confused why good friends are acting like bad friends. Maybe they're good friends who are just also human.
Speaker 1:And maybe what makes them human dials down my safety meter. But also maybe they're still good friends. I have one of those. I have one of those who I I am like, I don't know why you're still my friend, but she still checks in on me. She still does she still shares things in a way that makes me think, oh, we're still connected.
Speaker 1:Even when it's really hard for me to be connected, I still see you there. And so because of that, I'm aware that we're still friends even though these other things were hard. So I get to experience that in a non binary kind of way. So then the therapist gave some funny examples about herself. The thing that makes this extra funny is that because of what I went through before with my previous therapist, with my therapist now, I'm like, I don't wanna know anything about you.
Speaker 1:Nothing. Tell me nothing personal. I'm never going to ask for anything. I'd never want to know anything. Tell me nothing.
Speaker 1:I'm not even gonna look at your shoes. I like I don't she has some awesome shoes, by the way. My therapist now, she's really good at shoes. I'm like, those are some cool shoes. No.
Speaker 1:I do not say that to her. I notice it, and then I'm like, oh, no. You noticed something. Look away. Look away.
Speaker 1:Look away. Look away. Look away. Okay. So here's what she did.
Speaker 1:She used some examples of herself. She was like, we have made some progress. Like, it's been eight months now, and we're just now starting to trust a little bit. So I was like, okay. I'll give you a one on my safety meter.
Speaker 1:She it doesn't faze her. She doesn't miss a beat. She's like, that's okay. I'm okay with a one. It is yours to decide.
Speaker 1:I don't decide how you feel about therapy. You decide how you feel about therapy. So I'm like, well, that was pretty good, so I'll make you a three. And she's like, well, okay. And we've done some really intense work together.
Speaker 1:We did some eye movements. So even though these things, like with your previous therapist, still there's so much grief in you and so many layers to it. But you're functioning every day, and you're not crying every day anymore. And I was like, oh, well, that's true. So I'll make you, like, an eight.
Speaker 1:I can meet my therapist an eight. And she goes without again, without even or missing a beat. She's like, oh, I'm an eight now, so I could babysit your kids. Right? And I was like, no.
Speaker 1:And she was like, why not? And I was like, well, first of all, you're my therapist, so that would be a different role. So I don't want you in a different role because I already have a role where I want you in my life, and it feels safe over here. So it doesn't feel safe to move you over here. And she was like, oh, is that how it works?
Speaker 1:And she was like, what about baking you a cake? I was like, okay. First of all, I don't really like cake, but also, like, cake is just not my thing. My kids will eat cake. So my kids are excited because anytime I get a cake, they get to eat cake because I'm not gonna eat it.
Speaker 1:But she was like, you don't know if I can cook or not because we haven't talked about it. And I was like, I don't wanna know. I don't wanna know. I don't wanna know. And she's laughing at me, but very seriously says, like, you have no idea if I can make a cake or not, or if I make really good cakes, or if, like, my cakes have dog hair in them.
Speaker 1:And I was like, how do I know about your dog hair cakes? But she's like, that's the point. It's not a binary situation. Maybe we have worked really hard together to make our relationship very safe. And so you have a dial for that.
Speaker 1:And as we're talking about harder things, maybe that dial goes down and we go slower or more carefully or more gently. Maybe when we're talking about easier things or we wrap up a particular subject, the safety goes back up for a little while because you feel better as opposed to the struggle when you're wrestling with something. And I'm like, okay. That makes sense. But, also, it's specific to this context.
Speaker 1:Like, you don't know anything about me outside of this office, and I only know about you what you share with me about side this office. And so anything outside these walls, our meters, like, might change. Right? It's not the same. It doesn't just transfer locations.
Speaker 1:And I was like, oh, that's why the conference was hard or the retreat was hard when we went to hear our previous therapist speak because it doesn't just move outside those walls. And that's part of what was so unsettling and dysregulating, But I couldn't explain that to myself because all I knew was the binary of now time is safe. So then I feel like I'm feeling when now time doesn't feel safe anymore. Even though I am safe, it doesn't feel safe because the context has changed or the role has changed even when no one has done anything wrong or even when nothing hard is happening. And so we started talking more and more about the gray areas.
Speaker 1:And I know my therapist before tried to talk to me about this a little bit, and the one who died from COVID, my dream therapist, like this holding space for the gray has come up before. So clearly, have a binary problem about things being good or bad or being safe or not safe, and my homework is to start thinking about the grays between that. What is safe enough? What is good enough? And conversely, what is not safe enough that I should go ahead and pay attention to it or respond to that or do something about it, or what is bad enough that I need to pay attention.
Speaker 1:So, like, for example, I like to walk. My mood and my thoughts and my focus and intention are so much better if I go for a walk every day. And my favorite walk is to park by the skate park, walk around the dog park, walk around the lake, and then walk down this path through the woods that goes all the way to the Mexican restaurant. Now wouldn't it be fun if I had friends and I took that walk, but we did it for lunch And, like, we walked to lunch and had fun with Mexican food or whatever and then walked back to the car. And then I got a whole three mile walk, but also lunch.
Speaker 1:Now I'm telling you why this is in my head. Because we used to live by the river, And I had a little puppy, and we used to take walks on Saturday mornings to breakfast. And they serve these amazing buckwheat pancakes, and I could have coffee back then. And so it's just this memory that I have of walking along the river, a nice long, long walk. Like, it was probably three or four or five miles to the breakfast place and then another really super long walk back.
Speaker 1:And then the rest of Saturday, I could just rest. And then Sunday, I could just rest because I had done this extra long walk. And it's a good memory because at the time, I was single, and I was working at a hospital. And so I worked really hard during the week. I played pretty hard on Fridays.
Speaker 1:And then on Saturday, I, like, knocked out this walk with my body, enjoyed a brunch with my friends in a social way. See, I've had friends before. Nonbinary. Right? I've had friends before, and then I walked back, and then I could rest.
Speaker 1:But it's really really now I know because dissociation. But it's really really hard for me to just sit still and also be present. And so it took that much energy to get out of my physical body before I could be still and just enjoy my weekend. So, anyway, sometimes when I'm doing this walk because it happens to go by the Mexican restaurant, I think, oh, wouldn't that be fun? So I think other times with my family, I think we should walk and, like, surprise the kids.
Speaker 1:Like, just take them on this long walk. It's not too long for them now that the our youngest is doing better. What if we went on this long walk and then surprised them with Mexican food at the end? Wouldn't that be a cool memory? So when I'm thinking about intentional parenting and trying to do fun things like we used to do before we were in crisis during the pandemic and also age appropriate in new ways.
Speaker 1:I know I've gone on a complete tangent here, but stay with me. Age appropriate in new ways because our kids are older. Right? So as I come out of this fog from the last three years that have been so awful, I'm like, oh, hi, children. You're still here.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. Am I still parenting you? Oh, okay. I need to parent you, and I still wanna be intentional. Wouldn't that be a cool idea?
Speaker 1:So I'm telling you this so that I do it because it worked for meetups. I'm meeting up people everywhere. And so I'm telling you this idea for accountability, and I'm going to post a picture in the community when we do it, when I take the kids on this walk around the lake and down the path all the way to the Mexican restaurant. It will be so fun even if maybe I'll have the husband pick us up after dinner. We can just drive back so that it's not too much for the kids.
Speaker 1:But still, it would be super fun. Right? Wouldn't that be a cool surprise? Okay. So, anyway, good enough parenting.
Speaker 1:Right? So do I that's a perfect example. Do I have money to take my kids out to eat all the time? No. We almost never get to eat out.
Speaker 1:Has it always been safe to eat out during COVID? No. It hasn't. But right now, numbers are down. I could save money for that specific event.
Speaker 1:And can all of my kids with their disabilities be super cool and, like, CrossFit and five k's all the time? No. They can't. Our family is full of physical disabilities. We can't.
Speaker 1:But could we go on a nice, beautiful, slow, even paced walk and then enjoy a fun meal with protein and vegetables? Yes. We could. That would be super fun. Right?
Speaker 1:So good enough parenting. So I'm just telling you because this was a game changer. So this week, we're gonna be thinking about our dial. What is safe enough? What is safe not just what is safe and what is not safe, what is now time or what is memory time, but what is safe enough?
Speaker 1:Acknowledging both the good and the bad. Not just what's good and ignoring all those alarm bells from the amygdala or protector parts, and not just looking only at what is bad and ignoring how we can mitigate those issues, but doing that dial in the middle. What is safe enough? What is comfortable enough? How can we make something more safe?
Speaker 1:What do we need to pay attention to that's not? These kinds of things just more gently and more holistically as, like, a whole group of us intuitively in the body. What are we paying attention to to notice what's not safe and what is safe so that we do know what is safe enough? So that's your assignment too for the community in the System Speak fans group. What is safe?
Speaker 1:What is not safe? What is safe enough for you? I double dog dare you. Oh, is that safe or not safe? Or is it safe enough?
Speaker 1:I don't know. It's gonna be different for everybody. But I'll see you there, and we'll talk about it some more. Oh my goodness. But for now, what I'm writing on my hand this week is set, s e t, safe enough time.
Speaker 1:Booyah.
Speaker 2:Thank you so much for listening to us and for all of your support for the podcast, our books, and them being donated to survivors and the community. It means so much to us as we try to create something that's never been done before, not like this. Connection brings healing.