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In this episode, Dani talks about everything they've learned about gender stuff, and their understanding of their own gender!
See full episode notes for recommendations & links!
Dani is honest and refreshing in her takes on the world and society. Listen as she explains how she’s come to understand the world through kindness, both towards ourselves and everything else.
[0:00] Hello friends! Welcome to Understanding Kindness, a podcast hosted by me, Dani! I’m someone who approaches life by learning from everyone around me, and I’ve decided to write it all down and talk about it here with you. I’ve learned that in order to create change in this world, we need to understand ourselves and the world around us, all while infusing kindness into everything we do. If I can do it, you can do it, and we can do it together. Welcome to Understanding Kindness.
[0:30] Hey there buds! So today we’ve got a continuation of the last episode. Today we’ll be talking about gender. It’s a rather confusing and constantly morphing subject so I will try to do it justice, but I do stress that this is something, like many things on this show, that takes a lot of unlearning and unpacking to really grasp. So, if some things are confusing or you just have more questions I really highly suggest you check out the recommendations. Many People are much more learned about this subject than I am, and who better to learn from than those who I’ve learned from?! That’s about all I can say on it at the moment, let’s just dive in.
[1:12] For today’s Native segment I want to highlight a recent article from Indigenous Action titled, “Against the ‘Colonizer’s Burden’: Climate Justice Means Anti-Colonial & Anti-Capitalist Struggle”. The article explains how the structures and societies we live under now have led us to this point in history dealing with the current climate crisis. They discuss how capitalism and the settler-colonial state have created societies that extract from our Mother Earth and all of her Beings as if we were all merely resources to be used at Human Beings’ disposal. They explain how all organizations striving for newer, “greener” ways of doing the same things will only lead to more of the same. The article stresses that unless these types of systems are abolished completely, we will not find ourselves in any different situation than the one we are currently in. This is an extremely brief synopsis of this article, which in itself is actually pretty brief, so I would highly suggest giving this one a read. It’s probably the most concise, straight-to-the-point, and informative article I’ve read on the subject. I also think it’s the most convincing. The climate crisis that we are in currently didn’t just happen. There are exact things that we can point to that are causing the death of all of us here on Earth, and unless we stop doing them all immediately we will have to continue to suffer and die at the hand of capital and extractive ways of being. To continue denying that where we find ourselves is a direct result of the things we’ve been doing is to deny that we have any responsibility at all for our actions. When I look around it’s easy to see that this way of living life has pervaded every aspect of our behavior as a society and culture. It works internally and externally from the self. It is at the very core of why I do this show. We must take responsibility for our actions, both individually and collectively, if we ever hope to restore any of the harm we’ve done. It is not enough to just do what we’ve been doing in a “kinder”, less harmful way. We must cease to cause harm. We must see that our actions are what is causing the harm and change our ways because we no longer wish to cause harm. If you’d like a broader and succinct picture of how exactly the systems and society we live in cause the climate crisis, give this article on Indigenous Action a read. It’s linked in the episode notes.
[3:51] {Singing} *Shooouuuuut-Ooooouuuutttttsssssss*
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[4:18] Okay. Gender. I’m not sure exactly where to start with this one, but I do want you to know right off the bat that just about everything I’ll be discussing in this episode I learned from the podcasts GenderReveal and Pynk Spots (they’re linked in the episode notes so check ‘em out!). I guess we can go over what many of us already know. If you grew up, as I did, in the US you were most likely assigned a gender upon your entry into this world. You poked your little head out as a beautiful new Person and then someone looked down at your genitals and decided how you would be socialized for the rest of your life. You were assigned either male or female, boy or girl based on whether you had a penis and testes or a vulva. Oh yes, by the way, the vulva is the exterior bits and the vagina is the interior organ. So, someone saw what was between your legs and declared to everyone how the rest of your life would be determined. For many of us, this occurred before we even made it out into the world, when we were still safe and sound inside the Womb. People who we’d never met and who didn’t yet know us at all began planning our lives: how they would address us, how they would dress us, how they would interact with us, how the world would interact with us. That seems like a lot for someone who’s not even taken their first breath!
[5:42] Now what about once we’ve arrived? If we were born with a penis and testes they pulled us out and called us a boy. Right off the bat, there are so many expectations. Boys are supposed to be rough, they shouldn’t show their emotions, they should be strong, they should know that they are superior Beings in the world. Let’s slap a bunch of blue on them and surround them with figures of war and tell them that they can have whatever they want in this world because they were born with a penis - nice job by the way! You really grew that penis, didn’t you? Surely if anyone had the choice, they’d want one too! But what about those who were born with vulvas? How unfortunate! We’re gonna have to bathe you in pink and tell you to be a lady and stop playing in the dirt and stay in your place because you don’t have a cool penis. You were only born with an organ that can literally birth another life into this world - pathetic! Why do we make these distinctions and put so much on these little wonders? We don’t even know who they are yet, they don’t even know who they are yet! What’s the point of all this placing in boxes before we’ve even entered into the world?
[6:49] We’re told that because there are two sets of genitalia there can only be two genders. First of all, not everyone’s genitalia fit neatly into these two boxes. Somewhere between 0.02-1.7% of People (that’s between 1,560,000 and 132,600,000 People) are born intersex (thanks Wikipedia!), meaning their chromosomes, genitalia, or hormones do not fit neatly into this binary that apparently is the most natural. Which let me just say real quick, what is natural is something that Human Animals have no control over - like what bodies look like and which body each of us is born into and the fact that we will die. Concepts and ideas that Human Animals come up with and that do not exist unless we come up with them is less natural than the things we cannot change. This will come in handy later. Just the mere fact that People can be born into this world as intersex means there is more than a binary at play here. And, by the way, traits like these are common in many species in the world, Humans are not the only ones: that’s Nature at play. And it has befuddled scientists for centuries! So much so that somewhere along the line doctors began making even more decisions for these little Beings the second they were birthed into the world. Many times when someone is born with differing genitalia than what fits nicely into the two boxes of male or female a doctor will decide which genitalia that little baby will keep by performing surgery on them. A completely unnecessary surgery. So why would they do this?
[8:35] Because of this strict binary we’ve set up in the world. Yes, we’ve set this up. It’s obvious from what I just told you about intersex People that there is more than a binary of characteristics we can be born with. And that’s true for every facet of our beings, not just gender or sex. Now let’s take a look at what I mentioned would come in handy just a minute ago. People are born and exist in this world, in fact, everything natural is born and exists in this world without us Humans having to put labels on them and name them. A Person exists before we name them, Trees existed before we called them “Trees”, Water existed long before her name became “Water”. We need to separate these two distinctions: the subject from their name. I am a Human Being and my name is Dani. These are two different concepts. I exist without having a name. My name could be changed and I would still be here. Therefore, “Dani” does not exist unless I continue to call myself Dani and People refer to me as that. My friend Ghost does not know me as Dani, yet I exist to her. Ghost exists whether I call her a dog or not. In fact, many People would not call her a dog. She could be called a perra, łééchąą’í, or cane. The fact that her species is called different things in different languages is also proof that that is something Human-created. The names do not exist without us. So how does that translate to gender?
[10:13] Gender is a Human construction. Our genitalia, our hormones, our chromosomes exist without us having to do anything about them. The labels we put on them do not. Gender is a label we put on what we Human Animals are able to physically see, whether with the naked Eye or under a microscope. And what’s especially interesting is that we’ve decided that the individual who has those traits is not the one who will determine how they are labeled. We’ve decided that everyone else around them will do that for them. Slap that blue on them so they know and everyone else knows they’re a boy, bathe them in pink so People will call them a girl, don’t let him cry because he’s a man, stand up straight and act like a lady! Perhaps you’ve heard the story about blue once being a feminine color and pink being for Boys. Perhaps you’ve heard that Men actually can cry and still live and Women can not act like ladies and not burn up in flames. The mere fact that these things are possible and we can change them whenever we so choose shows us that these gender things are just societal constructs! They show us that gender is a constant presentation.
[11:25] Who are you when no one’s looking? When no one’s around, how do you present yourself? Do you dress for others while you sit at home while reading alone? Do you act a specific way while showering by yourself? Do you ever find that you don’t want to do xyz or act in a specific way, but you’ve been told you must because of the body you have? For me, there have been quite a few times in my life where I was honestly baffled when I was told I couldn’t do something. When I was younger, maybe somewhere between 8 and 11, I decided to start sleeping without a shirt on. I liked it. It kept me cool and I wouldn’t wake up in a sweaty, tangled shirt mess in the middle of the night. Soon, though, I was told that I wouldn’t be able to do that anymore because I was a Girl. I was like, “What? I just did it last night and nothing happened.” Baffle number 1. I remember when I was maybe 9 or 10 I was told that I sat with my legs too spread apart and that I shouldn’t take up that much space. I was like, “What? This is comfortable. I’m already so small, I can’t be taking up that much space!” Baffle number 2. And things like this went along throughout this time in my life. I was being primed to be a lady because of the body I was born into. Those around me had been trained in the gendering of the world and they were passing on their teachings to me so that I would grow up and not be bullied for being different or for going against the norms that society would place on me.
[12:54] But why, why would we place such norms on each other? Power. We’re told that Men run the world, and because we all believe it and play into it that has been true for centuries. Women have their place and that’s below Men, as second-class citizens. Still to this day anyone not convincingly presenting themselves as a Man makes less money than their “male” counterparts, they’re turned away from certain jobs, expected to do other certain jobs, told what they can and cannot do with their own body. All to assert power over them. Having power isn’t that great anyway. Men aren’t allowed to show emotion, unless they’re lucky, they’re bullied for it if they do. We all have a wide, beautiful variety of emotions that we do not have control over and Men are told they must hide theirs away simply because of the body they were born into. Suppressing emotions does a lot of harm. Literally look around at our society, at the world! Men have run the world for centuries and look at where we are! The planet is literally dying. Life is being wiped from the face of the Earth and we’re all facing extinction. Those running the world will tell you to look away and keep chugging on - nothing to see here. But we can’t not see it anymore! It’s happening in our own backyards now, not just someone else’s 4,000 miles away. Let me digress, I’ve strayed from the subject a bit. Power, though, is enforced through gender dynamics. If we weren’t able to distinguish easily between Men and Women by sight, how would we be able to assert power over certain citizens in society? It works very similarly to race, which is also a construct, by the way. In that I mean, it’s something that “allows” us to treat People differently and assert power over them. It’s all based on how we’re perceived by others.
[14:58] And gender is especially interesting in this way because we can change how our gender is perceived by others - another clue that it is a fabrication of the Human Animal imagination! Now let’s talk about Trans People a bit. I mentioned some terms briefly last episode, let’s go over them again. We’ll start with the term “Trans” in general. “Trans” simply means someone who does not identify with the gender that was assigned to them at birth. So from that we have Trans Men and Trans Women, probably the most well-known of the group. A Trans Man is someone who was assigned female at birth (aka AFAB) and usually socialized in that way throughout their life, but now identify as and present themselves as a Man. A Trans Woman would then be someone who was assigned male at birth (aka AMAB) and socialized as such, but now identify as and present themselves as a Woman. People can choose to use these terms for themselves whether they’ve had surgeries or not, whether they dress like a “typical” Man or Woman or not, whether you perceive them as a Man or Woman or not. It’s all about letting the individual decide how they want to be in the world - and that’s a beautiful thing because there are no limitations! Which kind of brings me to Non-Binary People. Non-Binary fits within the umbrella of Trans, along with the other terms I mentioned in the last episode: Agender, Genderqueer, Genderfluid, and I’m sure more which I am forgetting or do not know yet or do not exist yet. We’ll start with Non-Binary (or NB). NB People simply do not fit within the binary of gender, their gender is something completely outside of the binary. It can really mean a wide variety of presentations, again there are no limitations, each Person can identify NB as something completely different from the next. Agender is someone who doesn’t feel they have a gender or feels genderless. This is similar to NB because it can look like a bunch of different things, especially because most things in our society are gendered, but it’s just as fluid as Non-Binary is. And what about Genderfluid? This one means that one can shift how they present their gender from day to day, minute to minute depending on how they’re feeling. Again, lots of differences and fluidity. Then there’s Genderqueer. If we think about what I’ve mentioned about the term “queer” before, you’ll find your answer. Genderqueer really just means someone who goes against gender norms. They can shift their presentation, they can identify in any way on any day. All these terms foster such fluidity and embrace change - it’s a beautiful thing!
[17:48] Now, obviously not everyone is Trans. Many People identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. These individuals are called Cis. “Cis” is a term that Trans People came up with for anyone who’s not Trans. So, to be specific, a Cis Man is someone who was born with a penis and testes, assigned male at birth, socialized as a Man, and still identifies as a Man. Then a Cis Woman is someone who was born with a vulva, assigned female at birth, socialized as a Woman, and still identifies as a Woman. Many People live their lives as Cis People and then later decide that they are not Cis. That could be because they’ve finally understood something about themselves that they didn’t before, that could be because they’ve been pushing things down for a long time and finally decide to let it breathe, that could be because they’ve learned more about gender and realize they don’t want to identify with the gender they were assigned at birth. Realizations about one’s gender can lead to People changing the pronouns they use for themselves so, let’s touch on that slightly. Pronouns are the words we use to describe who we’re talking about without using someone’s name. Typically she, her, hers and he, him, his are the ones used for Girls and Women and Boys and Men, respectively. People who identify as NB, Agender, Genderfluid, or Genderqueer might choose to use the pronouns they, them, theirs to identify themselves. Pronouns like ze, zem, zeirs and a whole host more are used by People too. These are new pronouns that have not always been used in the English language. The singular “they” is something that has sparked debate, but really without reason. Before singular they pronouns were used in the more mainstream, People have been using the singular they to refer to one Person in instances like, “Someone left their wallet behind.” or “Who was in charge of that? I’ll give them a call.” It’s really very simple to put this language into our everyday lives. Yes, it takes practice, but so does everything. Sometimes it may be a bit confusing exactly who someone’s talking about and in those cases, you can just ask! It always helps to ask for clarification and this helps us learn, and we can’t learn if we don’t get out of our comfort zones. So try it out sometime! If you don’t know someone’s pronouns and are referring to them, try using the gender-neutral pronoun of they, them, theirs. You’ll get more and more used to it the more you try.
[20:23] So, you might be asking at this point, hey Dani, how do you identify? Perhaps you are not asking this question and I’m just trying to move the show along, but if you are: here’s my answer! I’d say I’m somewhere between Non-Binary and Agender; I now use they/she pronouns for myself. My whole life I was socialized as a Girl and then a Woman. I’ve mentioned before that I grew up a tomboy, however, I was still seen as a Girl and still saw myself as a Girl as well, mostly because everyone else told me I was. I never really identified with “girly” things and, like I mentioned earlier, did lots of things that would be stereotypically considered for Boys. Looking back and currently, I don’t really see myself as any gender per se and I don’t think I ever thought about it much growing up either. There was a point in time throughout college where my socialization was very strong and I struggled to make myself seem more womanly and identify as more girly. I never understood why I had to do these things, except for maybe to be viewed a certain way by others, but it was never for myself. As I’ve been learning more about gender in the past few years and understanding that it’s not real and can be whatever I want it to be, I’ve realized that I don’t really care to even think about gender. I want to do what I want to do when I want to do it and it doesn’t matter what gender those things are perceived as by others. I do not strongly identify with one gender or another, hence why I think I’m somewhere between NB and Agender. I do appreciate many of the traits I have that are stereotypically considered Women’s traits and I’ve been socialized as a Woman for 27 years so I still use she pronouns, but I really want to get away from gendered traits at all, hence why I am turning towards they pronouns. Really though, I just don’t care to perform a gender for others at all, I don’t care how others perceive me and honestly really never have. With all that I’ve learned, I now think gender is stupid and I don’t care for it at all. I do understand, though, that others enjoy playing with it and presenting in specific ways so I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade and say gender shouldn’t exist at all. I think the strict binary and construct of gender shouldn’t exist though because it unnecessarily harms People. I want People to be able to do whatever they want whenever they want and not receive blowback, or worse!, for it. And it’s also important to keep in mind that things change constantly. One day I may not feel this way any longer, one day there will probably be completely different terms and ways that People identify, one day I might identify as something else, you really never know! And that’s the beauty of it! Be whoever you want to be, we need you as you are!
[23:28] Gender, gender, gender. Whatever will we do with you? I think it’s necessary to know that we don’t know! As you can see from this whole episode, gender is something that we as a whole society are just starting to dip our toes into and learn more about. And we must acknowledge the individuals who have been living their lives in gender queer ways and fighting for the right to exist simply as they are for centuries really, so we can all live our lives free from a strict, harmful gender binary. Things are shifting all the time so it’s important that we shift with them - this is the easiest way to go about change. For me, understanding that gender is a construct that can be whatever we want it to be, helps me be able to shift with the changes. It also helps me be more myself. Knowing that none of this is actually set in stone and the bad feelings I’ve had about what I “can and can’t do” based on my perceived gender are valid because gender isn’t real makes it so much easier to just be me. I may identify as NB or Agender now, but that could all change at the drop of a hat. Some new term may pop up that I feel aligns more with how I feel, I could identify more strongly with one gender or another, who knows! That’s the beauty of it - it’s full of surprises! As long as we stay flexible and go with the flow, we’re much more likely to end up happy in the end. Do what feels good for you and good People will follow. You are exactly as we need you to be.
[25:07] {Singing} *Recommendaaaationsssss*
We’ve got just a few recommendations for ya today. To learn more about gender from the same places I have, check out Pynk Spots and the award-winning GenderReveal podcast for some great insight and interviews on the topic. For a bonus, I recently read Alok Vaid-Menon’s book “Beyond the Gender Binary” which I really identified with, so if you’re interested check that one out (it’s a quick read). And if you’d like a deeper understanding of how our societies change the climate crisis and how we can stop causing harm in a concise and to-the-point article, check out Indigenous Action’s “Against the ‘Colonizer’s Burden’: Climate Justice Means Anti-Colonial & Anti-Capitalist Struggle”. All of these are linked in the episode notes.
[25:59] If you enjoyed this episode, help support the podcast! All this content is provided for free and I’d love to make it my job one day, so if you’re financially able join our patreon or send a one-time or recurring donation through paypal! You can also share an episode with family or friends, and give UK a kind rating and review!
Check out UnderstandingKindness.com for all episodes, transcripts, and blog posts. And why not take a listen to my other podcast, Better When Awkward, co-hosted by my childhood best friend Jasmine!
Get in touch with me by emailing UnderstandingKindness@protonmail.com, or through social media. You can find all links in the episode notes.
For now, be kind, be compassionate, be understanding, and question everything. I’ll be here. Thank you for listening to this episode of Understanding Kindness. [End transcript]