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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:02.328)
Group Partouche has announced that it will allow patrons to pay for casino chips with cryptocurrency across its stable of French casinos. The programme will be rolled out during the remainder of the year, with Partouche seeking full application of the transaction service across its French casino network by 2027. So, how will this program be rolled out and could this be a watershed moment for mass crypto adoption in European gambling? Welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of Precisionless Marketing.
And the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner, and today I'm going to discuss this with our editor at large, Ted Manmuir. And also, I believe making his iGaming Daily debut, it's Lewis Thompson, news editor at Payment Expert and host of the Payment Expert Podcast. Lewis, thanks for joining us. How are you doing?
Louis (00:53.929)
Thanks for the plug, Charlie. Yeah, great to be on. And it you're right, it is my debut on the iGaming Daily. Maybe slightly overdue, but glad to finally be on here. And maybe one day we'll have you on the Payment Expert Podcast too.
Charlie Horner (01:06.946)
Well, maybe n let's not go that far. Well it's it's great to have you on for for your expertise in the payment sector because we we're gonna be talking about crypto today. Ted, how are you doing?
Louis (01:10.005)
You never know.
Ted Menmuir (01:21.209)
Very well, Charlie, preparing for tomorrow's budget, but this is a good story to kind of put out today. And yeah, it's interesting kind of developments in French gaming.
Charlie Horner (01:34.542)
Yeah, absolutely. we're gonna we're we're going to start off by touching on the the f the French side of this story. So maybe Ted we'll we'll focus on you in the first half of the show. first of all, who are Group Partouche and and I guess why are they deciding that now is the right time to begin accepting crypto as a payment?
Ted Menmuir (01:45.027)
Yeah.
Ted Menmuir (01:53.252)
So, Groupe Partouche is one of three key operators in France, the others being Joa... Let me start again.
Louis (02:15.272)
Jawa.
Ted Menmuir (02:17.657)
I just see no groups, it's an intimal love.
Louis (02:27.452)
Isn't there one in the south like a big casino?
Ted Menmuir (02:29.661)
yeah, yeah, sorry.
Excellent question, Jim.
Charlie Horner (02:37.422)
Ted, who are Group Partouche and and I guess why are they deciding that now is the right time to begin accepting crypto as a payment?
Ted Menmuir (02:44.697)
So Charlie, Partouche is one of France's three main casino operators, the others being Shoah and Group Barrier. Amongst the three, it's considered kind of France's luxury casino brand. It's operated since 1973. And this week, it announced the partnership with French e-payments and crypto wallet, Liz, that it will allow its customers to convert cryptocurrencies into gaming chips.
via a transaction done in its land-based venues. And it believes that it will, the reason being that it will attract a new series of customers and international visitors to its casino networks of 40 across French provinces. So it's certainly a development that paves a new way for French transactions. It was not only picked up by
put by French media and French business channels.
Louis (03:48.862)
Yeah. I mean the one thing I w looking at it looking at it from my end, obviously coming from a I guess more of a a a purely crypto standpoint, not specifically for iGaming, but it's kind of a model I think that's been used a lot across your across industries in Europe, whereby the merchant in this case, the the French operator, you know, doesn't need a license per se to process crypto payments.
Charlie Horner (03:49.112)
Shos.
Louis (04:18.921)
Because the role is, I guess, split through. Is it Liz you were saying they were called Ted Lizzy? Liz? Apologies to the the cast if I've got that wrong. so I I think how it really works is they take in a crypto payment. So if you're at a casino, you would pay it in that way and they'd exchange it for Euros and circle, I believe, having a having a look at your story.
Ted Menmuir (04:22.659)
Yeah.
Louis (04:45.599)
Ted, very well written of of course, they're the ones that would issue the stable coins for that, and then Partouche would receive the Euros and issue the chips. So Partouche never actually have an active engagement or role in issuing crypto themselves. If they did, they would need a licence.
Ted Menmuir (05:01.645)
the VR.
or holding, yeah. Yeah, so they make that kind of clear because just to make sure, Partouche in its kind of guidelines says that at no point will any of its venues hold or exchange any cryptocurrencies. So yes, customers will be able to transfer from their wallets via the lease framework and convert.
through stable coins, decrypt those into just gaming chips at the venue. However, all other transactions will be done via fiat.
Charlie Horner (05:41.089)
Okay. So yeah, that's an important distinction for us for us to make here. Ted, just in terms of the the rollout of this this programme, are they going to be doing it in in sort of in in parts by venue by venue or or are they looking to just roll this out in in one w in one go, I guess, across the whole portfolio of I believe around forty venues, is it?
Ted Menmuir (06:05.625)
So yes, Part 2 shortbreads 40 venues. However, the initial rollout, it began as kind of beta phase testing in three venues, and one in its principle, one in Cannes. And then following that, Part 2 trying to disclose that they've been working with Liz for four years to develop this project and to make sure it was compliant with not only French, France's...
AML code but also Europe's of Europe's kind of expanding MECA framework and it feels that now it's time to in the coming months to launch the program across its network in which it wants to go live by early 2027 with the full program.
Charlie Horner (06:53.762)
Yeah, we'll we'll jump into the regulatory side of this in in the second half. But I guess just to move move us al along a little bit, can we think of any any other instances where regulated gambling operators are actually adopting cryptocurrencies across its operations in Europe? I know we're saying that Partous won't necessarily be handling any crypto, but do you think this could be a a model to to prove the utility of crypto across land based gambling? maybe Ted you'd like to go first and then we'll see if Lewis can can add.
Ted Menmuir (07:20.921)
You see there's actually quite a few kind of blurred lines at the moment between gaming and crypto. It's definitely a field where I think it does carry interest across the spectrum of gambling and regardless of jurisdictions. However, it always comes down to, know, what are the national laws of processing? Also, what is...
What is the obedience or the liability of gambling licenses if they transact cryptocurrencies? Again, we're talking about a regulated market interacting with a currency or a discipline that's yet to be fined. It's regulatory settlement across European jurisdictions.
It is definitely something that's being seen to at a European level. However, I just think this is too much ambiguity for gamming licenses to simply accept or take on this type of project. It's interesting to see Partouche and French casinos in general, you know, put out or begin to kind of process or have some functionality with crypto payments.
Charlie Horner (08:31.948)
Yeah, Louis, how about in sure?
Louis (08:32.444)
Yeah, well the only thing I'd add is I guess go ahead, Charlotte.
Charlie Horner (08:36.952)
No, I was just gonna ask if if you had anything to to add to that in terms of either either anything that you've seen in in gambling or or perhaps in other sectors as well. Is this could this be a model or is this already a model for other other industries?
Louis (08:51.646)
Yeah, well I think the the easy thing to do is obviously you can have, you know, you can launch crypto from land base and I think a a part two so have they done it on app as well. It's quite simple to do that. But where you might have maybe I guess what you would call maybe an offshore operator, they could obviously, you know, take bets and hold balances in crypto. This is really an the the best and easy way when you're in a in a regulated space like France's, it's
Ted Menmuir (09:01.037)
Mm-hmm.
Louis (09:21.236)
part of the EU so it comes under those Mika frameworks as it relates to to crypto. and so this is kind of an easy way without having to go through all the license procedures, all of the I guess the rigmarole and and the paperwork of of getting a license for that as lo alongside all the other regulations, I'm sure as a as a land based operator you need to go through. So it's really I I guess about ease of utility this model.
And and it applies for you know countless industries. Anything you could really think of where maybe the the the consumer would want to pay in crypto, it it's a model that works and is why, you know, over the last however many years you've seen CASPs, as they're called, grow, which is a crypto asset service provider. If I've got my anagram right.
Charlie Horner (10:18.958)
Great. Well, Ted, this hasn't happened overnight, has it? This has been a a project that's been long in in the works for for Partoush, I believe over over a four year period. What what has the project been like? And you mentioned that collaboration with with Liz earlier. Ha w just just tell us a little bit about how Partous has has worked on this programme.
Ted Menmuir (10:30.104)
Mm-hmm.
Ted Menmuir (10:40.013)
Yes, so I've mentioned it's been part of a four-year project. Also, Parti's recognizing kind of changes in France's.
AML codes and accepting kind of higher responsibilities and how kind of higher risk gambling transactions are undertaken. There's been a huge change, especially since the ANJ came in about kind of the accountability onto each gambling account and recognizing how transactions are processed. There's also, like many European jurisdictions, you have to have a complete ownership of wallets or you have to have a complete oversight of who you're transacting with with the wallet.
It's surprising or to me, yeah, it is surprising to the degree that the peak kind of leaves I don't not yet know what will be kind of the the parameters for the transactions or the restrictions Will it be just for French customers? Will that our kind of international operators come through or will they have to sign up with a French French domiciled wallet to process these transactions? But part of you should know claim that this is a
major project and it is transformative for its network of casinos. It will allow them to kind of tap into new audiences and again I think it carries kind of a better transfer for its online assets.
Charlie Horner (12:02.412)
Yeah, certainly a an ambitious project. okay, well Ted Lewis, we'll take a very short break and we'll come back and we'll continue the discussion.
Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Ted, as part of this project, this continued rollout of of crypto payments, you said before the break that you know there's gonna be a a bit of a focus on on stable coins, but do we know which cryptocurrencies French players will be allowed to use in Partouche venues or is it is it just going to be limited to to those sort of stable coins, if you like?
Ted Menmuir (12:35.657)
This is what we got yet to find out. The stable coin processing or transfers will be done by USDC and Euro C. They're the ones who will transfer the digital assets and convert them into gaming chips. However, they did not mention which specific cryptocurrencies will be available for transfer. I'll point to Louis, I why would that be? Was it just...
Louis (12:59.859)
Yeah. Well I it's I I I think it's more it's more important, I think the settlement coins as in that, you know, that i are more important than the coins a players play with. So it would depend on Liz's offering, as to which I guess crypto currency you could use. obviously as part of Micah the the choice really on on on the stable coin settlement side is either USDC or the
Ted Menmuir (13:06.233)
Mm-hmm.
Louis (13:28.359)
EURC, the European coin, which was launched to I guess rival the US dominance in in stable coins. And that yeah, so it it really depends. They'll all settle on those, but it depends on Liz's offering of whatever its cryptocurrencies that that it has are. I'm assuming Partouche likes the sound of whatever those coins are because it's sign an agreement and so I'm I'm sure it's obviously appealing
to Partout's customers and what they tend to to use for their crypto payments.
Charlie Horner (14:03.778)
Hm. Sure. We we've referenced now Mika, Micah, several times now during the show. Lewis, it might be a good a good opportunity just to explain what those regulations are, what it means and and outline the parameters of what Partouche can offer or not within its venues as part of this programme.
Louis (14:21.833)
Yeah.
how long's a piece of string, Charlie? Where shall I start with Mate Meeker? well, it's really basically the rule book for crypto asset service, the CASPs I was mentioning, and stablecoin issuers throughout all of Europe. so it was adopted I think back in twenty twenty-three, if I've if my memory serves well. so and obviously it applies to all
EU member states. one of the most recent updates for it was was from July this year. So providers without CASP authorization authorization needs to stop have to stop operating in obviously as it relates to Partouche in France. So obviously that transaction ended in July and Partouche is now
announcing its rollout is it from next year you said Ted or October or something like that. Yeah. Okay. So yeah, it it's essentially the frameworks for which coins are accepted in Europe. what can be used because you get if if you're on a total free market
Ted Menmuir (15:20.504)
Yeah.
Ted Menmuir (15:35.897)
Mm-hmm.
Louis (15:36.126)
you end up with coins that are incredibly volatile. You think of if you look back to some of the the meme coins that became popular across the world before regulations come in, a lot of hype around those. You can market them, but the you know, the peaks and troughs of how much value they are versus how much they lose is quite dangerous. So it's a bit like any regulation. It's just protecting the consumer from potentially harmful, damaging investments, etc. but stable coins as part of Mika is
Different. That's kind of like an e money token through issued through e money institutions. which is why Circle as a regulated entity within Europe, which issues U USDC, they do a lot of the conversion in Europe. Used to be USDT, but they do not have a Mika license now, which is probably a whole nother story.
Charlie Horner (16:31.694)
Yeah, listeners can tune.
Louis (16:33.375)
Which maybe I can talk about on the Po Payment Expert podcast one day, maybe. It's an idea for that.
Charlie Horner (16:37.186)
Fantastic Fantastic plug. Okay, well Ted, as we as we come towards the end, do you think that this model that Partous is adopting can can be replicated across other op other operators? Do we think that this could be you know, a a model for for mass adoption of crypto solutions across European land based venues?
Louis (16:41.365)
Ha ha ha.
Ted Menmuir (16:59.737)
Hmm. It's an interesting question. I mean, I think if you were to ask any operator, be it land-based or digital, if they'd love to accept cryptocurrencies, they'd probably say yes.
and to take it up instantly, know, be it probably for Bitcoin. However, in terms of kind of wider adoption, does it become a kind of more feasible for operators? I just think you've got to look at just the level of regulation and the level of kind of oversight that is placed on gambling transactions at the moment.
And the reality is that even with Mika, there is still a delay at a national level to implement individual rules on crypto. Also, the kind of wider utility of crypto's relationship with gambling licenses. So just not kind of transactional. It's, you know, how are you going to verify the players? What is the kind of compliance and the duty on to care on to on to customers that choose to play with crypto?
cryptocurrencies. I think it just all depends to the rollout or the play out at a national level. It's good that there is, I think for European operators, that there is a European framework in Mika that they can reference to. But again, we come back to the old argument that gaming remains the autonomy of national states and they carry the individual rights to set the laws.
Louis (18:37.386)
That's a good point Ted makes actually. Within each nation, obviously there are individual regulations that each nation can make. I think that's across all industries. so the EU can set certain rules and regulations to try and bring everyone together on something, whether it's the recent AI Act, but then within each nation state there are those own individual rules they can impose too. So there can be some complexity around
Money movement perhaps between different countries.
Charlie Horner (19:10.392)
Hm, yeah, I mean gambling, cryptocurrency, yeah, lots of complexities, lots of risk. yeah, I imagine AML, KYC sort of concerns that that need to be ironed out w with with regulation as well. But look, Ted, Lewis, thanks ever so much for joining me today. This is an interesting story, one to to to maybe continue to monitor how that rollout goes and see if it might impact any other operators adopting crypto.
but thanks for tuning in to today's episode of iGaming Daily. Thanks to Optimove for supporting the show. And we'll be back tomorrow with full reaction to the UK budget and the impact it might have on the UK gambling sector. So we'll see you then.