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A fan podcast celebrating (mostly Swedish) RPGs including, but not limited to: Coriolis; Forbidden Lands; Symbaroum; Tales from the Loop; and, Alien.
Hello and welcome to episode 277 of Effect. It's alive. I'm Dave.
Matthew:And I'm Matthew. And we have, thankfully, at last, some stuff to talk about in the world of gaming. It feels like we've been on a bit of a world of gaming drought for a oh, since since Christmas or since just before Christmas. But we've But there's a lot of news in the world of gaming that
Dave:we need talk bit about world of gaming there.
Matthew:Mean And we can always find some shit to talk about. But
Dave:knowingly under Loquacious. You know? That's our But
Matthew:we yeah. We we have got some stuff to to fill this hour with without it just being you and me talking shit to each other. Although, that will also happen.
Dave:Again, that's our other that's our other tagline though, isn't it? Matt and Dave talking shit to each other. Because that's that's all we do. Anyway, yes. What have we got on the show today then, mate?
Matthew:We we got a chunk of stuff in the world of gaming. We have my tabletop live report. Woo. And we have a short interview with Millie with some exciting news about Dragonbane, the UK Games Expo, that we we foreshadowed in the last episode, but we now have some actual truth behind the matter. So so those are effectively the three segments of the episode that we've got in this time.
Matthew:So I think I imagine roughly twenty minutes on each. We'll be done in an hour, gentlemen, ladies, all our listeners. Yeah. We'll be done in an hour. You mark my words.
Matthew:It won't overrun at all.
Dave:We will see.
Matthew:It never does, David. No. It
Dave:never does. We we are we are just pinpoint. We are like, you know, we're like astrophysicists who are directing spaceships to Mars. Pinpoint
Matthew:We are.
Dave:To the second, to the moment. They never get missing, they never get lost, they never go missing, they never crash, just like us.
Matthew:Yes.
Dave:Anyway. Anyway, do we have any new patrons this week?
Matthew:We don't have any new patrons this month, But we do love all our
Dave:patrons. We do. We do. And thank you, as always, to everyone who supports us and listens.
Matthew:So we can crack on with the world of gaming.
Dave:Indeed. Crack on.
Matthew:Now the hilarious thing that I I thought I'd make the first item in our little running order is you remember a few weeks ago, we were talking about Ghost in the Machine Arise. Yes. And how the title looked a bit like Ghost in the Machine Arse. Well And
Dave:very, very indecisive.
Matthew:Just arse.
Dave:Very indecisive kind of, you know, commentary from us.
Matthew:Yeah. There's there's that review.
Dave:The name looks like arse.
Matthew:But now there's a game that doesn't look like arse. There's a second Ghost in the Machine game that is about to kick start or has been announced by Mantic Games.
Dave:Okay.
Matthew:So I am intrigued here. Now this one says very categorically, this is based on the original manga. So I imagine that in Japan, there are two IP holders. One of which, I guess, is for the movies stuff and one of which is for the original manga. And they I remember all this sort of shit happening around Robotech as well, that various different companies claimed the rights to different iterations of Robotech.
Matthew:And so all the Robotech games kind of have to weave this path through all these different IP holders. Right. But here there are two. Mantic games we, I think, last spoke about in this parish when they released a Hellboy game that was fifth edition skin, really.
Dave:Right. Okay. Yeah.
Matthew:I think some of our patrons got it. I don't remember anybody being it kept I'm ManTech, I think, do a bunch of stuff with figures. So I can imagine when this does kick start or back a kit or game found or whatever they're gonna do, it will come with a bunch of figures. And I think actually Ghost of the Machine figures might look quite cool as well. If that's what you're into.
Matthew:The system doesn't appear to be fifth edition this time. It appears to be a slightly more modern, more narrative engine, I think. But we will wait and see.
Dave:Yeah. I would say, I mean, I'm I'm not a manga anime person, so I know very little about any of this stuff. Only what my son Dean tells me. And I forget most of that straight away anyway.
Matthew:Yeah. And I'm pretty sure the last time we had this conversation, I said, well, if there's one manga anime film you should see, it might well be Ghost of the Sheen. And I told you to get Dean to make you watch it. And you failed to do that, obviously, because you still got nothing to say.
Dave:No, indeed. So I'm just looking at their their their their page about it. It says it's scheduled for launch in the 2026. So I guess we've got a little while yet before it hits Kickstarter or Bakkakit, or as you said, whichever of those crowdfunding platforms it wants to use. But cool cool.
Dave:Again, it's not the kind of thing that I'm gonna pick up. I might begin might be interested to hear a bit about the mechanics, depending on what system they're using, because obviously it's always quite interesting to to learn about new mechanics or systems that games use. But, yeah, otherwise Yeah. It's not one I'll be backing. Let's put it that way.
Matthew:Now, when I write on the show notes here that Connor's Cthulhu Lariam adventures, that that that's nothing to do with anybody in your family, Dave. That is or indeed your wargaming group gaming guru, I should say. That is Cohors, Cathutics.
Dave:It is.
Matthew:I hope you recognize
Dave:that. I I I worked that one out. Yeah. I'm I'm I'm, you know, I'm the ball. I'm sharp, me.
Dave:You know, I don't miss a trick.
Matthew:And why are we talking about Coho Cthulhu I can't even say the words now.
Dave:Coho Cthulhu?
Matthew:Coho Cthulhu Larriam Adventures.
Dave:Kind of the frontier setting that Cohu Cthulhu was originally set in, which is this town called Lariam, on the border with the German frontier. And Mhmm.
Matthew:I did
Dave:a bit of work. I was I was brought in to do a bit of development editing on on particularly one of the stories, which which ended up in a bit of a rewrite. But yeah. That was cool. I I really enjoyed doing that.
Dave:It was it was an interesting interesting story that, say, needed a little bit of development editing work. Very similar to the kind of things that I did with Destroyer of Worlds and Heart of Darkness, that kind of thing. Mhmm.
Matthew:But
Dave:that was cool. So I've really enjoyed I've I've I've really enjoyed working on Cohhog Cthulhu. It's been I mean, obviously, I've got my my Roman history interest anyway. So it's a it's a setting that I've kind of feel quite familiar with. Adding the whole, you know, cohort Cthulhu, Aachtan Cthulhu, like like, history and culture behind it is is something I'm not familiar with because I've never played Aktem Cthulhu.
Dave:But it's very it's quite easy to pick up, and it's not it's not a difficult one to sort of ease into if you don't know it very well.
Matthew:Right. And let let me just clarify here because I know nothing about I think I did buy the fate version of Acton Cthulhu on PDF once when it was on offer. But I I can hardly remember even reading it. This is a this is a this is a, shall we say, an alternate history, and Cohorts Cthulhu is the Roman history of the events in Acton Cthulhu, is it?
Dave:Yes. So the the the kind of the backstory is the eons long war against the outer gods. And there are Atlanteans and Hyperboreans. Some of them are good guys, some of them are bad guys, but they are also like champions, and they survive through the eons, and then kind of a bit like the way guess, know, somebody who's deeply involved with the Quahogacathulu world might correct me, but it feels to me a bit like Sapphire and Steel, that these champions come together at a particular moment in time when things are building up to a a to a nasty moment. And, you know
Matthew:Oh, right.
Dave:In in Quahog Cthulhu, that is during the reign of Marcus Aurelius. So it's well, that's about January, January. In Acton Cthulhu, obviously, it's around the time of the Second World War. And you then play characters in and around that who become champions themselves, not in the same way.
Matthew:Or who have always been champions, but you didn't know you were champions until the time came for you you I guess,
Dave:potentially, yeah.
Matthew:Diverse background you've come from. Yeah. To join with the others.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's it's fun. And there's lots of fun monsters and gods and enemies to to get to get stuck in with loads of different cults and clans and all that kind of stuff. So it's a lot of fun.
Dave:I've written a few scenarios for earlier publications. I've also written the Rome campaign, which I'm not sure when that's coming out, but that's a it's a short campaign. It's three scenarios. They're quite long scenarios, so there's plenty of stuff in there, but it's all based in and around Rome and how how all the mythos stuff is trying to influence the the the powers that be in the center of the empire.
Matthew:So but broadly speaking, in in in in the in the wider campaign of the whole game, as it were, the characters are all generally based around Larium. So this Rome campaign is a trip to Rome for some reason when you do it?
Dave:It could be either, I suspect. If you've got an existing characters from Lariam who want to pop to Rome for the afternoon, you know, it's only about 2,000
Matthew:in an afternoon. Nicely done, mate.
Dave:Oh, I think, alternatively, you could create your own character specifically Absolutely. For that Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. Right. Cool. But it's Anyway, we're not talking about that. We're talking about Larium Adventures.
Matthew:You know, you wanna be that Larium characters.
Dave:Yes. Yeah. And I again, I think, you know, a big part of the idea behind this is that players who have a ongoing campaign of Cohhog Cthulhu in and around Larium could just roll these scenarios into that campaign.
Matthew:Into whatever they yeah.
Dave:Exactly. Yeah. And one thing I thought was really nice, actually, because I I say I worked on only one of the scenarios here, but I did quite a lot of work on it. But it's quite nice to get a call out. They so they put me up on my own on the credits as development editor and additional writing, which I thought was quite nice.
Matthew:Yeah. So this was shared, first of all, by one of our patrons who put it on our Discord, that the adventure that you did the most work on, you're actually credited as co author on that one with with with the other original writer.
Dave:Yes. That's right. Yeah. I am. Yeah.
Matthew:But you've also got a development editor credit in the in in the credits page.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Which is cool. I mean, it's fun. I really I really enjoy, you know Development editing can be very frustrating depending on on the the quality of the text that you have to work with and and what bounds you've got.
Dave:Because I on on this one, I I had a few ideas and a few suggestions about improving the story and about changing the story a little bit, which were then knocked back on the grounds that the the story was a Kickstarter
Matthew:Right. So we'd they've said on the Kickstarter, in this story, x x and x will happen.
Dave:Kind kind of.
Matthew:Tried to say, let's not have x, let's have y. And they said, no. We promised the punters x x and x.
Dave:I mean, I was able to make quite a lot of changes to the story to make it hang together. I mean, the the the basic story was a was a good idea, and some of the writing was was was great. It was really well written. But to make it, again, hang together really well as a as a story that you could play at the table that would make sense, and the players would, you know, find it logically consistent and challenging and interesting, kind of that's where that's kind of where I came in. So it's good.
Dave:No. I'm really pleased to see that. I hadn't known it was coming out, so it's a nice little surprise to see that pop up on the Discord. So thank you to whoever did that. Yeah.
Dave:And it's good. I mean and it's it's, you know, obviously, it's the standard sort of Modiphius two d 20 game. I've never I haven't actually played Co Author Cthulhu, but some of my scenarios I'm really pleased with. I really enjoyed writing them, and I think there are some great moments in a couple of them that I I hope players are are finding that experience at the table when they when they play it. So I think there's a lot in it actually to, you know, it's a it's a it's a really interesting setting to to to sort of throw yourself into, although I've I've never actually played it.
Matthew:Yeah. We ought to you ought to run us a game or get somebody to run a game for us. But don't know who'd
Dave:I'd be interested to play it rather than run it, frankly.
Matthew:Yeah. So mean, the problem is, I'm not a huge fan of the whole two d 20 system. And neither are you, really. Well, until you started writing for it.
Dave:I was
Matthew:I have to shelve for it.
Dave:I think I think that the the core mechanics of it are are actually pretty good on the whole. I don't mind those at all. It's all my my criticism is very much around a lot of the other stuff that goes with it. Things like talents are certainly the stuff that I've looked at are so kind of situational and specific that in Star Trek, having played the campaign there, I don't think I used any of my talents ever because the the situation never So I think things like things like that frustrate me. And Star Trek, spaceship battles, not locking phases, all that really bothers me.
Dave:But
Matthew:You've gotta get over the not
Dave:locking phases. But the core system the core system is, I think, is okay. It's fine. It's not bad. But anyway, go on.
Dave:You're you're I overtook your start of that conversation. Sorry.
Matthew:No. No. I can't remember where I was going with that. And
Dave:I You were talking about two d 20, so
Matthew:At some point, I'm going to go through the entire Star Trek canon and count probably on the fingers of less than one hand
Dave:Of less
Matthew:than one how many times anybody actually says, I've locked phasers. I can remember it once in the movies. That's pretty much the only time I can remember it, but I will.
Dave:Oh, no. I'm sure there's there's definitely been I mean, it might not be lots, but I mean, that is such a core element of Star Trek, even if they didn't actually say it a lot.
Matthew:Even if they didn't say Right. Okay. Let's move on, they're
Dave:they did it
Dave:they it twice in Rother Khan. So Yeah. Which is one of where he says, you know, lock phasers on target when they're doing the surprise, you know, the surprise attack. And, you know, Seeloo's like, phasers locked. Superb.
Dave:Before that, when they're actually shooting, could they go, they're locking phasers, and then you get the whole of relying
Dave:on locking
Matthew:phasers. Okay.
Dave:Fucking brilliant. Then later on, in the battle in the Mutawa Nebula, because it's the nebula, they can't lock phasers. And and Kirk says to Sealy, best guess, mister Sealy, because he said, I can't lock phasers. So in that one, there's three, at least three, if not more, references in that one movie alone.
Matthew:In that one movie. Maybe only that movie.
Dave:So you start you started this, mate. But
Matthew:that is the only movie that I can think of, or the only sort of episode, shall we say. The only story I can think of. Anyway, let's let's move on. Yeah. Cheating 2020 doesn't quite do it for me.
Dave:So when I'm retired and I've got the time, I should watch all of them, everything from beginning to end. And I've done quite a lot, but I don't remember. But specifically looking for the number of times that phases are locked or people discuss locking phases. I bet it's gonna be it'll be in double figures. I would I would bet quite a lot of money on that.
Matthew:Actually I just thought somebody's probably already done this.
Dave:That's true. Yeah.
Matthew:So I'm just even as we speak now, typing, how many times do they lock faces in Star Trek? Let's just see if there's a simple answer that we can lay this to bed once and for and never mention it again.
Dave:Answers on a postcard. None.
Matthew:Just gonna say Well, okay. AI assures me there is no definitive publicly available account of how every single time phaser lock is mentioned or utilized.
Dave:I'm gonna do I'm doing the same. I'm gonna check if my bloody computer chooses to work.
Matthew:The frequency is high in the next generation deep space time and Voyager. So maybe maybe you're right and I'm wrong.
Dave:Well, not for the first time.
Matthew:Well, it would pretty much be the first time.
Dave:It wouldn't at all. How many times are phases locked in Star Trek TV?
Matthew:And This is scintillate. It is. Listen to us Google stuff. Yay. You know, I'm pretty sure Okay.
Dave:In Star TV series, if it was the phrase phasers locked or very close variants like phasers locked on target, it's used many times, but there's no officially published kananika account.
Matthew:Right. Yeah. We we like you you are gonna have to sit down with your
Dave:Estimated ball Probably up to 60 instances, depending on how strictly
Matthew:you deploy 60. The
Dave:Yeah. Cool. Well It is less common than shields up or red alert.
Matthew:Yeah. Too right.
Dave:Too right.
Matthew:But again,
Dave:shield yeah. Shields shields are an important part of Star Trek too. So
Matthew:I I wouldn't be surprised if it was less common than Phasers on Stun or set Phasers to Stun or whatever in the Possibly. Original series. Right. This is not the Star Trek Phaser podcast. Let's let's move on to the rest of
Dave:the world game. Anyway, yes. What's next?
Matthew:I don't know. I've just lost my Here we go again.
Dave:SLA in Savage World. Savage World's rules coming to SLA Industries.
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:Okay. I So I guess there's quite a lot of people who might go say, oh, that's good news, I guess. Yeah. People have perhaps bounced off the s five f system.
Matthew:Which I definitely did.
Dave:Which I say, I mean, it it worked really well when you had we had somebody, I e
Dave:Paul We had Paul
Dave:who knows it, like, the
Matthew:back of his hat.
Dave:Who knows it really well. And and Yeah. And the the the playing experience
Matthew:And knows how to take the shortcuts and stuff like that in it as well.
Dave:Yeah. But but that that that took somebody who is a a self professed expert in that system, and obviously knows it inside and out. And, yeah, and again, I mean, Savage Worlds has its has its critics as a system. It's I I think I I didn't bounce off it, but when we first started playing Solomon Kane, it took me a little while to get used to
Matthew:Yeah.
Dave:She's a system not that feels a bit clunky.
Matthew:It's not, by any means, a perfect system. Famously, the shaken rules are endlessly tweaked and seemingly never quite understandable.
Dave:We have to try and work it out every time we play, don't we? To remind ourselves how wounds work again. And I'm not sure we come to the same conclusion every time either. I
Matthew:think it is generally simpler than s five s. I would say it's a very pulpy system, and I think that's probably quite good for the SLA Industries setting.
Dave:Yep. Yep.
Matthew:It's is this the first time SLA Industries have gone to another system.
Dave:I thought haven't I
Matthew:have a suspicion they may have done it before. I haven't heard
Dave:of them doing it in any other system. What other system might they have done it in?
Matthew:Maybe No. Maybe not. Maybe not. I am a little bit intrigued. I remember being at the warehouse some time ago, and Jamie telling me they'd just got a big deal with Pinnacle Entertainment to be their UK distributor and stuff like that.
Matthew:And I'm just wondering if this is bound in with with that deal as it were. I mean, I'm not saying one way or the other, whether they, you know, whether the deal was, oh, we'd like to run SLA in in Pinnacle.
Dave:In Savage Worlds.
Matthew:Savage Worlds. And and then given given the connection between
Dave:GMS.
Matthew:Nightfall Games and GMS. Yep. Whether whether this was this was all part of the same big deal that I don't know whether they started with the with the I don't know which side whether they started with the distribution or the partnership on the rules or vice versa, but then one led to the other.
Dave:So yeah, I mean it's it's an interesting one, isn't it? It's it's a good thing. I mean, it's for Nightfall, it's it's what's the right word I'm looking for? It it's recognition that SLA, even if the s five s system, you know, is something that people struggle to get on with sometimes, it's it's it's recognition that actually the the setting and the idea behind SLA is one that's that's that's that's spread, that's that's that's done well. People People love the world.
Dave:Enjoy. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. And if taking it into savage worlds increases the, you know, the the readership the the playership of the game Yeah.
Dave:That setting, then that's that's all good stuff. That's really good.
Matthew:And it's a thing that other companies have done with Savage Worlds as well. So I think we briefly were mentioning Rifts a while ago or was that a conversation? But, you know, rifts, the is in the notoriously clunky palladium system and then had a really good flowering in in in savage worlds. So so, yeah. I think it could be a system to go to, particularly if you don't want if you want to do something that's quite widely known but not 5e, then Savage Worlds might be a place to go to.
Dave:Yeah. And I and again, I could it feels to me that SLA wouldn't be a good fit for five e, you know, because for for various And actually, Savage Worlds being an easiest, you know, actually, you know, quite a simple system, even if parts of it, you know, we we struggle with. And and the whole idea of the Bennies and Righteous well, I mean, Righteous Rage is obviously Solomon
Matthew:That's very specifically Solomon Kane.
Dave:But but you have the option of doing similar kind of mechanics that would then fit the the relevant genre that you are now taking the Savage World ruleset and and putting it in into. So I think that'd be great. And, you know, I you know, good luck to them. So do we know, are they is this coming out as a Kickstarter or a pre order, or are they just releasing it?
Matthew:I don't think so we've had the announcement and kind of, yes, it's definitely coming. The rumors are true. But I don't think we've had anything about I think it'll be a crowdfund. I think generally, Nightfall like to crowdfund their stuff. And to be honest, you know, for smaller game companies, there is very little reason
Dave:not to crowdfund because
Matthew:of the Yeah. Promotion, the publicity around the crowdfunding campaign. Most, I think, nowadays.
Dave:So I'm gonna quick look to see whether there's anything here that says no. Nothing obviously on on their announcement saying when and how. Just says officially in development. Yeah. Okay.
Dave:Cool. Cool. Yeah. Good. I think I think I think that's a good move.
Dave:Yeah. I look forward to seeing that, actually.
Matthew:Yeah. It might be what a fun one to do. Right. Now, my screen has turned itself off, so again. So, yeah, Tunnels and Trolls
Dave:is back. Your the show notes, you've put Tunnels and Trolls. And I I that's the game I wanna play. Tunnels and Trolls is a game I would buy. Tunnels and Trolls, I mean, I never played it back in the day, but
Matthew:No. Somebody had it at school. Do you remember
Dave:who Yeah.
Matthew:Played Tunnels and Trolls at school? But I don't think I ever well, I may have may have had an hour of playing after school one day,
Dave:but I don't think I ever played it because back in the day, I just looked down my nose at Tunnels and Trolls and thought, it's not Dungeons and Dragons, is it now? And what
Matthew:a ridiculous,
Dave:like, rip off it sounds like.
Matthew:This was in the early days of gaming as well. So Yeah. If you weren't getting the fabulous hardback books of advanced Dungeons and Dragons, you were getting something that generally looked a bit shoddy in in production values. Yeah. And I that was my overriding memory of those early Tunnels and Trolls rule books, almost like Romeo's statured typeset you know, typewritten papers.
Matthew:It probably wasn't that bad, to be honest, but that's that's kind of what I'm recalling. Yeah. This is in the days before desktop publishing, folks. There were days before desktop publishing. But but I I think it's kind of interesting that this is obviously what blokey boy from rebellion Yeah.
Matthew:Whose name I can't remember, but is getting to live his best life. You know? This is a bloke who made I can't remember how he made his money, but he is quite wealthy now. And he does all the things that he enjoyed as a kid. He dresses up as a knight and and rides around on his horse in his fancy armor that he can afford to buy and joust with and stuff like that.
Matthew:He loved 2,000 AD, so, you know, he saw the opportunity to buy them and he bought 2,000 AD and that's what he made his money in bloody computer games, of course. That's where he made his money. Computers game company, first of all. But he spends his money wisely. All the money he made out of computer games, he's keeping the things that he loved from his childhood alive, like being a knight jousting like 2,000 AD, and now, obviously, he played Townsend Trolls.
Matthew:He may have been the bloke who was playing it at our school, we we never befriended him well enough to to get in on his rebellion millions. No. Think he comes to the Midlands or somewhere. Anyway Right. I I love the way.
Matthew:It feels to me I hope it's a success for his sake, but I I just love the fact that he spends his money on things he loves and spreading the joy about them. I'm cool with it, even if I wasn't a big Tunnels and Trolls fan. Anyway, there's a quick start you can get from Drive Thru. You wanna have a go at Tunnels and Trolls yourself, there there is now a quick start available. We will put a link in the show notes.
Dave:Yeah. I was just having a quick look to see if I could find the quick start, I haven't found it quickly. But yeah. It's Yeah. I don't think I've got anything else to add really.
Dave:It's something I never played back in the day. I might be interested to have a quick look at the quick start, just to see how Well,
Matthew:quick starts are free, generally. Indeed. I assume. But, yeah.
Dave:Is yes. It is it is free. Yep. Tunnels and trolls, new age, beta quick start rules is free on drive through. So, yeah, go And
Matthew:we will put a link in the show notes.
Dave:Yep. Cool.
Matthew:And then finally well, not finally, finally. But I just had you this late edition since you last looked at the looked at the show notes, Dave. Mhmm. Because friend of the show and patron, Thomas, put a link in our Discord to this beautiful looking book, which was on kickstarter. The kickstarter is now finished.
Matthew:I normally wouldn't cover something like this. Although, you can preorder via the kickstarter website. We'll put that in as well. But it's a beautiful looking book called the cosmographer's at Atlas. And it features three kind of steam bunky settings.
Matthew:But it is I you have to go go to the link in the show notes. Look at the pictures. It looks beautiful. I think that's all I've got to say really. But they are beautiful pictures.
Dave:Yeah. So I'm just looking at the Kickstarter page. Yeah. It's obviously got backed. It doesn't have it still has a back this project up.
Dave:So I don't know if you can do it later.
Matthew:Yeah. That's the that's the pre order thing that that that BakkerKit now do. Not BakkerKit, that Kickstarter
Dave:Kickstarter. Definitely got a very it like you say, steampunky kind of style, Victorian kind of style to it feel. Yeah. Which is which is
Matthew:Well, so interestingly, there are three different settings, and they're each so one of them is kind of Victorian. One of them is kind of Art Nouveau. One of them is kind of Edwardian. So three very distinct but historical periods.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:That Cool. That I like very much indeed. And, you know, it's from a bloke who is a professional illustrator. So it's this is his Yeah. Labor of love as it were.
Matthew:I'm actually kind of well, I'm not I don't know. I was I thought this looks beautiful. I thought I'll back this before I realized it had already been backed.
Dave:You can still late pledge though, if you wanted to.
Matthew:You can still late pledge. Yeah. There are certain things actually that are on investigation, a little bit of doubt in my mind. Okay. It's being printed by Mixam, who are kind of print on demand printers.
Dave:Yep.
Matthew:They're they're very good quality. We we got some of our early copies of the Quick Start printed by Mixam. And, you know, we worked for the very cheapest. Yeah. Stapled version
Dave:of that. Were good though. It was well produced. They did a good job for us.
Matthew:Yeah. Yeah. And you know, and they're in that they use vegetable inks and stuff like that rather than petroleum inks. So there's a lot of good stuff there. But part of me, worry about things like spines and ribbons and stuff like that.
Matthew:You know you know me.
Dave:I do. Takes you to that. Yeah. There's level of of I don't know what you would call it. Not cartography.
Matthew:Book nerdery.
Dave:A level of Book nerdery. Yeah. A level of of book nerdery and and a a level of quality that you want in your book. So, you know, we we knew full well when we created Tales of the Old West that we wanted the book to stand on the shelf in Something equal Equal kind of, like, quality to to the best books out there.
Matthew:If we hadn't if we had been you know, if we had only just done our Kickstarter, we might have resorted to something like a mixamp print instead of what what we wanted.
Dave:As a way of getting getting it out there. Yeah. Exactly.
Matthew:Yeah. Getting it out there. But really, what we wanted was this one. Yeah. And we got the beautiful book that we put out.
Matthew:And again, we'll we'll we'll come onto this later in my report, but, you know, people still hold the book and go, oh, this feels lovely. And that just makes my heart swell.
Dave:Yes. Like likewise. Yeah.
Matthew:So anyway, so I worry that this that this might feel a bit disappointing when I've got it in my hand, but it looks gorgeous.
Dave:Certainly, the artwork is Yeah. Cool.
Matthew:So and I I kind of feel, although it's kind of, you know, steampunky and human history censored. You could almost run it with Coriolis or something like that as well.
Dave:It certainly has a feel there. Yeah. Certainly could, think, actually.
Matthew:And I think that's important because I'm not a huge fan of steampunk.
Dave:No. No. Me neither. We did And
Matthew:I want to be. Yeah. I really want to be, but I'm not.
Dave:We tried Airship Pirates, didn't we? And I even though I enjoyed it, the the it the steampunk feel of it wasn't what I enjoyed about it.
Matthew:Yeah. And and there are various things I didn't enjoy about it. I thought again, this is me really wanting to enjoy steampunk and airships and piracy. I think the system was slightly at fault though. Wasn't a huge fan of the system after playing, you know, originally I was quite excited by it, but after running a few sessions I was getting a bit tired of it.
Matthew:Yeah. But yes, there's something there's something actually about steampunk that doesn't quite work for me. But it's Really annoyingly.
Dave:And it's interesting you you you mentioned the Coriolis there because, again, I'll just I think I did mention this before. I just want to do a very brief reflection of how freaking brilliant Coriolis is, actually, to me as a game. Because I am absolutely loving running the restarted Spectral Corsair campaign. And we've we're like five sessions in, and it's just brilliant. I mean, it's just as a GM, you've got such broad you you can do make almost anything happen, and you can have kind of almost any kind of setting.
Dave:So we had a we had a episode on a on a on a water planet where the towns were all like ships and submarines and stuff that all came together and goulash together to make a town of 10,000 people. But then when the weather turns bad, they all unlash themselves and go off to survive the storm on their own, and then they come back again.
Matthew:Oh, nicely done.
Dave:But in that, they were then
Matthew:You know, what you
Matthew:ought to do is you ought to you ought to publish some of these adventures.
Dave:I know. I know.
Matthew:Have you ever thought about being a professional writer?
Dave:Oh, maybe. Yeah. Did I did try it once. But again, so that was brilliant. And then the next episode, because we had a couple of players who couldn't make it, so I had them they'd just come through a portal jump.
Dave:I had them stuck in in stasis and their spirits, the Dark Between the Star, kind of brought their spirits out onto the ship when they were doing mischievous stuff, which then caused
Matthew:That sounds a bit like a bottle episode that I run when only you and Tony
Dave:It was a little bit like that.
Matthew:Well, I take that as a great honor, mate.
Dave:They then but they then had had complications because the locals in the system they were in could detected that their ship was possessed and wanted them to exercise it, which would then Oh, cool. Kill all the spirits on board. So and it's just brilliant. I mean Yeah. I just love it.
Dave:It's so versatile. For me, anyway, as a GM, I find it so versatile and such fun. And having played quite a lot of it with this crowd, and they're such a great player crowd, you know, I can't I can't stress that enough. They get it. They love it.
Dave:They know that they know the whole setting and how it all works. And it's just a joy. I'm absolutely loving playing it again. Yeah. Anyway, I just wanted to throw that in.
Dave:Cool. But yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. No. I think there's there's there's such potential there. And, you know, I think there's I I I don't want to slag off particularly until I've got the campaign I don't want to slag off the great dark but I feel what the original not the original choreo list What Coriolis and Third Horizon gave us was an aspect of of all the world building that had gone on with the original Coriolis that made it a really broad kitchen sink game. And and what they've tried to do with the with the with the great dark is focus it more, but they've lost that.
Matthew:Yeah. And I I can versatility, I think.
Dave:Yeah. And I can see how that broad canvas could could be off putting and a bit of a barrier to a GM who goes, oh, I don't really know where to start. But Oh, yeah.
Matthew:We did a podcast special on it years ago during lockdown.
Dave:But, again, I'll just say embrace it. Choose the bit that you like and start with that, and just see where it goes, and introduce other bits as you go. You don't have to have it all sorted out at the beginning at all. And that's the joy of Coriolis, because you've got so many little islands of separate culture and all the rest of it, you can make any of them whatever you want. It's brilliant.
Dave:And, you know, if you if you are if you are intimidated by that at all, don't be. Just pick a bit that you like and go for it, and just start your game, because you'll you'll probably find that it all works out really well. But So that was a bit of an aside. I just thought I'd throw in a little bit of Coriolis love.
Matthew:I don't know. Do you want to write an article for the next episode all about some aspects of your newfound Coriolis your new recovered Coriolis love?
Dave:Yeah. You could do that.
Matthew:Can can we turn that spirit have you have you got rules around the the spirit game or something? I I do. We we can talk about that towards the end of the episode. Let's see what we're meant to be talking about now. Yeah.
Matthew:What we're meant to be talking about now is
Dave:A little conflict.
Matthew:Is AI. Yeah. Because AEG, who are not actually really tabletop role playing game publishers Board
Dave:game publishers mostly, aren't
Matthew:They have focused on board games. Yeah. But they did publish Legend of the Five Rings. And particularly fourth edition, which is the version of Legend of the Five Rings that we still play in our home group, you and I, Dave.
Dave:Yes. Yes. Absolutely.
Matthew:And they published the original oh, what's the other one that they did? The thing with the ship, Seventh Sea, which is broadly speaking, their version was based on vaguely the same ruleset of the legend of the five rings. So they have been role playing game publishers. But their CEO said something. Neither not CEO.
Matthew:COO. Chief operating officer. So if you like, one down from the top. Said pretty much, well, AI could make any of the games that we make. Which I think is a kind of I don't think it's as bad as it do you remember this is a story that only Brits will know and only Brits of a certain age will know is when the the the director of a jewelry chain that used to be on every high street
Dave:Ratner's.
Matthew:Stood up. So Ratner
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:Stood up and said, you know, this rig here, it's shit. It only costs us $5 and we sell it for or £5 and we sell it for £200. I can't remember quite what it was. Yeah. And immediately, Rattlers collapsed because
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:They were a mass market jewelry provider and everybody was just told how shit everything was.
Dave:It really was. Yeah.
Matthew:And this isn't quite that bad, but it, you know, it it didn't go down well, shall we say, with AEG's fans and and he's just been given the boot. I will put a link. There's a couple of news stories. I'll put a link a couple of links in.
Dave:I mean, it's it's Yeah. I mean, it's an interesting one because I've read what he he'd originally put out, and I've read what he's put out. Ryan Dancy is his name Yeah. Chief operating officer. And I've read what he put out afterwards, after they'd agreed to part ways.
Dave:And kind of what he's not saying is AI we're gonna use AI to make board games and and sack everyone.
Matthew:No.
Dave:What he what he is saying is that AI, as it's developing and as it is, is probably capable of producing a lot of the stuff that creators can can produce. Whether they you be know, there's a whole debate about whether, you know, there is a an element of the human experience or the human talent that an AI could never reproduce, and that's another question, frankly. But subsequently, he's, you know, he's he's his subsequent thing was saying, you know, I don't believe AI will replace the work for talented game designers and developers, nor do I think it's appropriate to use it. But he is saying there is a there is a a reality here, and actually, if it can't do it now, it might not be very long before AI is in a position to to produce games that that many people might not get work, you know, might not be able to tell weren't produced by a human. Which is true, you know.
Dave:It's we've talked about this a lot, but actually it's quite interest it's quite interesting. Obviously, my wife works for a big global IT consultant company, and there's a lot of AI stuff going on there. And she's beginning to see a lot of the work that she's doing might mean that people are not, you know, they're gonna need fewer developers. And this is just this is just the way it's going. This is very much gonna be, I think, in some industries, a, you know, industrial revolution throwing your throwing your wooden sabots into the machines to stop them taking your job kind of situation.
Dave:Because I think people you know, it will change the landscape and people will there'll be fewer people doing some of these jobs because of AI doing it, and it's it's I think, it's becoming even clearer now, kind of the existential potential impact of actually how powerful and how quickly AI is getting powerful in some of these areas. It's a tough one, and it it is gonna affect a lot of people.
Matthew:Yeah. And, you know, and it's an interesting it's it's a double edged blade, isn't it? Because Oh, yeah. The side, you know, it can be an empowering tool because you know there are loads of people out there who may have a great idea for a game but can't draw the pretty pictures or whatever and you know if they can get a machine to draw the pretty pictures for them then they can get that game out public and people can enjoy it in a way that has taken us a bit of effort. But on the other side, there are a bunch of talented artists and the like who might see that well, not just their work being stolen, but also the fact that there's no fresh creativity.
Matthew:You know, if if all AI is doing is copying other people, what what one can't see necessarily are the seeds of, you know, it's a thing about I feel it's a little thing about aesthetics. Obviously, you know, my art degree that I have is, if you like, a degree in advanced bullshit because that is one one one has to learn how to talk about one's art.
Dave:That that doesn't surprise me, mate, because I I I'd always said that you must have had a degree in advanced bullshit my entire life. So
Matthew:But the you know, peep people with more practical degrees in stuff like physics, where there's definitely right and wrong answers 90% of the time. Look at arts degrees and go, well, you know, they are just spouting bullshit all the time. But there is a sense of aesthetics. I can't remember. I'm trying to think of a thing.
Matthew:I feel there's a thing I just know about when a picture looks right or wrong that some people who aren't trained in art can't say. No. They don't. Would be better if actually, a great example is I don't know if you've ever seen this film. Oh, fuck.
Matthew:I even don't remember what it's called. It's a film where the Beatles never existed except for one bloke who remembers all the Beatles songs. He he falls off his bike, and when he wakes up, everybody's no
Dave:the Beatles
Matthew:never existed.
Dave:I've heard of it. I haven't seen it. Yeah.
Matthew:Yeah. Well, at one point, he's playing a Jew Hey Jude for for Ed Sheeran. And Ed Sheeran says, oh, that would be so much better if you just change it to Hey Dude. And, obviously, it wouldn't be so much better. Ed Sheeran, you're as thick as shit.
Matthew:And I love the fact that Ed Sheeran was in this film being a total nonce over this classic tune. I think it was very brave of him to take on that role and say that line as well. And it's a bit like that, that if you don't know where it's come from, then you may go, Oh, would be better if it was Hey Dude. Or whatever. And and that's what worries me that AI will make those similarly uninformed decisions about stuff and the overall quality of art will suffer.
Matthew:Yeah. The AI slop that we sometimes get served on YouTube and stuff will be all there is.
Dave:Yeah. Mean there is over. No. But there is just so much AI slop now. It really has exponentially changed in the last few months, I think, just from what I'm seeing on on social media.
Dave:It's been a real a real change. And again, you know, the the the kind of the, you know, the principle of AI of of a machine doing something instead of a person, the principle is fine. But the the implications of it aren't fine if it's using someone's copyrighted or in, you know, their intellectual rights abuse it's abusing those in order to do it, even if it's kind of unknowingly, because it's scraping the Internet and then using that to create its its its products. Or whether doing that then, you know, put somebody out of a job without us having thought about what those people are gonna do instead. Because I think the big the big problem with, you know, the industrial revolution, the example I used, is that it just changed, and those who were running the factories and creating the factories just changed.
Dave:And all those people who suddenly, you know, weren't needed to till the fields anymore because you've got plows to do all the work and everything else, were out of a job, I guess in those days many of them would have starved. Now, we're in a better position to be able to look ahead and try and avoid some of those things, and say, okay then, this is inevitable probably. We are gonna lose 50% of developer jobs, or, you know, we are going to lose jobs in gaming industry because of AI. What do you know, let's think about what we do as a society to manage that. We might not ever get to a good answer, but it doesn't mean we shouldn't try.
Dave:But I think the good thing Sorry, with the gaming just to finish the point. The good thing with the gaming industry is, though, that the vast majority of us in the industry have said, we don't want to use AI schlop for this stuff. We want to use the talented artists, the talented writers, the talented copywriters, and, you know, the graphics designers. We wanna use those people because that's that's just kind of the way we do things in this industry. We want we wanna support people.
Dave:We all everybody in this industry, I suspect, or just about everybody, knows how difficult it is to get on in this industry because it's difficult to make a lot of money, it's difficult to to make a living. And those of us in it wanna make a living, but also we wanna support others to make a living. And, you know, I'm I'm, yeah, I I'm I'm very you know, it kinda warms my heart a little bit that we've been able to get on board, you know, the likes of Stefan who did our, you know, did our did the layout. The likes of Mate and all our other artists who came and did all the all the fabulous work. And I love seeing that stuff coming through, I love seeing the iterations, and then, you know, getting the final product.
Dave:And I feel good about that. I'm I'm happy that we spent money on those people because they deserve to get the reward for their talent, and then by doing that, we get the product of their talent, which on the whole is freaking superb. Yeah.
Matthew:Again, I'm I'm spoiling all my tabletop gaming live views. But again, not only do people say the book felt lovely, they all admired the art as well.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:So and where are we going with it? Oh, yeah. The other thing I briefly want to say on this is as per kind of per your employment thing. So I talked about how it empowers potential creators who may have an idea but haven't got the skills necessary to bring it in. But what worries me is that empowerment is not free.
Matthew:The owners of these systems are the ones who, in the end, are going to profit from it.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:And, you know, that's what they're they're investing spondulics in in stuff. How are we, the masses, going to pay for it is how we're gonna be expected to pay for it is the thing that worries me a bit. And I'm getting a bit Marxist in my old age, is we do not own Mhmm. The means of production here. And and that worries me.
Matthew:Anyway, that's probably we we we we're gonna go well over our allotted hour.
Dave:Funny that, mate. Isn't it? Did I did wonder when you said early on that this is another Mars mission that's missing the planet and heading off into deep space.
Matthew:So, yeah, another AI conversation bites the dust, but we will return to the topic, I think, because things will change. There is a thing, though. Actually, you know, you talk about gamers. Games is a big old industry now that includes computer games where they seem to be, and obviously maybe even rightly, given that people want more responsive characters or whatever on computer games and stuff, maybe AI is the answer there. But tabletop gamers are about social interaction, whether it's around a table or online.
Matthew:Yeah. You know, there's a lot of, you know, ours is a very real experience and I think that's the thing that means that we will be a sector a segment of the sector that will forever celebrate non AI made stuff.
Dave:Yes. Yep. Absolutely.
Matthew:Right. Table Talk Gaming live, mate, before I run out of steam?
Dave:Yep. Go on, mate. Tell me all about it.
Matthew:So first of all, let's let's start with the really good things about Tabletop Gaming Live. Frank. It's a real pleasure, Frank, to have somebody like you on the stand with me rather than the bloke I normally understand.
Dave:Fuck off.
Matthew:So, obviously, Dave, you had to go and celebrate your brother's birthday. How was that? Was it fun?
Dave:It was. It was great fun. Yeah. We we went and saw Les Mis up on Shaftesbury Avenue. Fabulous fabulous show.
Dave:Brilliant production.
Matthew:I hate it, but carry on.
Dave:Yeah. It was it was brilliant. And the guy playing Jean Valjean was superb. All all the cast was superb, but he was particularly good. And we all had a lovely day.
Dave:Yeah. So
Matthew:Cool. So while you're having a lovely day, Frank was working. Can I just tell you the story of Frank? I hadn't quite twigged this. Frank told me on the Friday night that he might be a bit late because he was waiting for a plane at the airport in Malaga.
Matthew:And he rolled into his house at 04:00 in the morning.
Dave:Oh my god. And
Matthew:yet still managed to get up in time to drive up to Doncaster for Milton Keynes, charge his car on the way because he's an electric car user like me. And I I can't remember exactly when he got there, but by 12:00, he was there and amazingly full of energy for somebody who had been and I, you know, and I thought foolishly that, you know, maybe he'd been away for a holiday with his family. But no. He'd been working in Malaga. He's a school teacher for a living.
Matthew:And he'd taken a bunch of students, you know, Spanish students out there, obviously. So
Dave:so Okay. That is above and beyond. I mean, I I watched the little video that you two did, which is really cool, and in that, you did did comment on on Frank having had an early, like, I I assumed an early start or something and being a bit tired. I hadn't realised it was that you'd flown back and didn't get back until dawn. Wow.
Dave:Blimey. Thank you, Frank. I mean, that is that is over and above the Call of Duty by some some way.
Matthew:So yeah. So I just wanted to say that. Thank you. Thank you, Frank. That that was really good.
Matthew:And, you know, and he he sold some games as well. So Oh. The he he earned his money. We didn't pay him anything, but he earned his money.
Dave:We should pay him something for all of that, given given the the commitment and effort he put into helping.
Matthew:I gave him a a slap up feed. Obviously, we've got entry to the to tabletop gaming. And also, I gave him a copy of our new print of the book. Because, of course, he kick started the book, so he's already got a copy. But he's got the deluxe copy.
Matthew:And and The least the
Dave:least we could do. Yeah. Yeah. No. Thank thank you, Frank.
Dave:That is so that is so kind of you.
Matthew:A very, very generous spirit. And he he's he he won't be well, he may be listening to this now, but I I know right now he's in The Netherlands. I think probably with another school party or is this one a family trip? I can't remember. Anyway, so he's a jet set person, person.
Matthew:And it is one weekend in The UK.
Dave:Malaga, Doncaster, and then The Netherlands all in the same week. Yeah. It's just Yeah. He's living the high life.
Matthew:So so that was great. There was a lot about Tabletop Scotland that was really good.
Dave:Tabletop Live, mate. You're talking about
Matthew:Tabletop Live. Sorry. Yeah. This is very confusing. Two events, both called Tabletop.
Matthew:Tabletop Gaming Live is Yeah. Is of a magazine. I've got to say it was relatively small.
Dave:I think we expected that though, didn't we?
Matthew:Yes. And and Tabletop Gaming Magazine is a broad gaming magazine. There's a lot of board games and stuff like that. So the, you know, the Chiantel, there's only a small section of that that are even interested in tabletop RPGs. And in fact I would say that there is a small section of that who are interested in tabletop RPGs because they read the articles in tabletop gaming magazine but they don't now play tabletop.
Matthew:Know they may be used to. But their family situation or their lives there or their social group or whatever means that they kind of read those articles notologically remembering So a time when they used to we didn't sell very many games. That's the key point. I know the only thing that you're interested in is how much money did I make. No.
Matthew:Not only. Not
Dave:That company is high up on my list of, you know, of priorities as director of effect publishing. Yeah. I mean You said you probably covered our costs, which I think is
Matthew:Yes. Think we just about covered our costs, includes the hotel room for French and I, and and the I I did treat Frank to a rather slap up meal at the Subsistence.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah. Now that's
Matthew:that's Stuff like that.
Dave:Well, that's obviously well deserved in Frank's case. I hope you just had beans on toast, mate.
Matthew:Yeah. No. I I I had a stuff like that too, because I work quite hard as well. And we had a few beers as well that were very nice. But I think there's a there's a fundamental problem, which I think was due to the life story of Tabletop Gaming live, in that it was just getting going and starting to grow when COVID hit, and that really knocked it for six.
Matthew:It's a relatively small not only is it a relatively small number of stands, it's a relatively small crowd as well. And I've got to say, the last couple of hours of both days was pretty much dead. Yeah. So, you know, the crowd there was turned up and looked around the stalls, made their decisions. There was, you know, there was stuff going on that they went to, so they, you know, sat down to play games at open gaming tables.
Matthew:But yeah, the last hour or two was quite a lot of standing around waiting for
Dave:On your own.
Matthew:Somebody to talk to. Yeah. You know? Yeah. And and there's quite a lot of talking as well.
Matthew:So even though we didn't make many sales in the early before those last couple of hours of each day, there was lots of chat going on and people admiring the book or and and of course, the beautiful thing about this is because it comes to the magazine, people said, oh, I read about this, which is lovely. Yeah. You know, because that's a great review. You know? Yes.
Matthew:And even if they weren't buying the game, the fact that they were kind of interested in it and, you know, wanted to leave it in real life was great. But I think I'd not be inclined to take us this year. We also vaguely promised Anna of Free League to tell her whether it would be worth her going in the future. Yeah. And I definitely don't think it's worth taking the free league stand there.
Dave:It doesn't sound like it, does it? No.
Matthew:They would make they'd they'd sell more games because they've got more lines and, you know, they're good games. Obviously we've got a good game too but we've only got the one. And you know, if they were going, I'd definitely take stuff like work. Actually, I'd think about taking stuff like Zone Wars and stuff like that, the more board game y style games. Yeah.
Matthew:But
Dave:It doesn't sound like it's mature enough yet for Freely to
Matthew:want to on. Is not yet mature enough. They don't want to pay us for standing around for a couple of hours at the end of every day. And I'm No.
Dave:Doing nothing.
Matthew:Now they've been moving from site to site. Next year, they're gonna stay at Doncaster. So maybe they will start now building up a crowd and getting a crowd. But again, on the on the the tabletop, on the RPG market, the Saturday in Sheffield, which is the next door town to Doncaster, there was one of their quite regular RPG conventions going on there. So I imagine a good chunk of the RPG buyers of the locality weren't there because they were all playing RPGs at
Dave:In Sheffield. Yeah.
Matthew:In Sheffield. So I I don't know. I am gonna have a word with our patron, Craig, about Yeah. Maybe the table the independent tin. What are those called?
Matthew:The UK?
Dave:Tin network. Yeah.
Matthew:Tabletop independent network. Maybe they could get a stand together and it would be worth going with a broader stock than we had and spreading the cost among a number of different publishers. That could be a thing.
Dave:We'd also also wondered whether it being held on February 14 didn't help as well potentially.
Matthew:Yeah, I mean, one would love to say that obviously gamers don't have social lives and therefore don't need Valentine's Day but that's not true.
Dave:Again, just a just a thought really. And I do wonder whether bouncing around the country has been a problem for them as well because you Yeah. You know, it's I don't know, maybe having I could I could see why. I could see why, but having a a base and getting a a brand and a base, and you're oh, they're always in Doncaster or wherever it might be that they end up, it's probably a good thing, because then you have in your mind, you know, oh, okay. I can get to Doncaster.
Dave:That's not too far away. I'll go to that. Yeah. Rather than thinking, oh, where are they this year? Oh, if they're in Manchester, I'm not gonna go to that.
Dave:Or if they're in London, I'm not gonna go, you know. And then you add another obstacle, another bit of mental energy you've got to do to to get to the point of actually booking a ticket, which just might make it a bit might reduce the numbers a little bit, perhaps.
Matthew:Yeah. And there was another the guys behind Doomsong were there as well with quite a lovely stand. So we had a good chat with them. It was a good opportunity for Frank to get some interviews under his belt Cool. For his YouTube channel.
Matthew:And he hadn't bought any mics or whatever. So luckily, I had. So he used my mics for that. Overall, it was fine. But it needs to grow some, I think.
Dave:Yeah. Yeah.
Matthew:And I don't think we can be part of that growth, sadly. But maybe there are ways that UK people could be. Yeah. It may even be worth talking to GLS as a retail thing. GMS, I should say.
Dave:GMS. Yeah.
Matthew:And and just wondering whether a relatively small standard of theirs might work with, you know, high
Dave:end Potentially, yeah. I I assume they they weren't there then this time.
Matthew:No. They weren't.
Dave:No. Cool. That might be a good idea. That might be the way to get around it, mightn't it, actually?
Matthew:Yeah. But what
Dave:If they wanted to go, if it was gonna be worth their while going.
Dave:Yeah.
Matthew:Okay. Now Cool. We have got some other news about
Dave:UK Games Expo.
Matthew:UK Games Expo.
Dave:Cool. Let's listen to that.
Matthew:So we have had the chance to catch the brilliant friend of the show and organizer for all things well, not all things UK Games Expo, Millie. Millie, welcome back into the Haman. We've had you before. Wanted to ask you about your world of gaming. We promised our listeners in fact in the last episode that we would talk about UK Games Expo.
Matthew:It's your job. How's it going?
Millie:It is my job. Yeah. What a sentence.
Matthew:It's exciting, isn't it, to have a fun job like that?
Millie:It is. It is. And then it's also like gratifying when you see the same folks as players and GMs or organisers coming back and talking about how last year they took part in this kind of big special RPG thing. Last year, twenty twenty five, we ran a D and D special event. It wasn't sanctioned, it's not an official one.
Millie:It was me and Tony is who one of the directors of the UK Games Expo. We love these big style events and we were like, well, we want some more of them. Obviously, we've had the Dragonbane tournaments for a couple of years now and we were like, well, we want more of them, bigger ones, more of them. So we wrote one, which was singularly one of the most stressful things I have ever done whilst also trying to schedule everything at my normal job. But we did it.
Millie:There were 12 GMs who joined in and we saved a dragon, we had confetti cannons. It was a riotous Saturday night. It is brilliant to see that. So what was really great was when I got to talk with you and Anna this year and be like, could you do something cool? There was an ulterior motive in that.
Millie:Was because if you guys didn't do it, would have to write it.
Matthew:Yeah, I'm just thinking about it. As you talk about writing this is the most stressful thing and I'm experiencing some of that stress because there's something special about writing a game. We're talking about Alien right now, aren't we? Yes, There's we something particularly stressful about realizing that you've got to write this game for 60 or more participants. And we say or more because you recruited 12 GMs for this.
Millie:Yes. We
Matthew:imagined 12 tables, but that game
Millie:It's sold out in than twenty four hours. So it was on the website. We do a thing when we put the events on the website where you can see them for a little bit, especially with things like this. You need to see them to decide whether it's for you. That's fine.
Matthew:Before tickets actually go on sale?
Millie:Before the tickets go on sale. So you can sort of have a little bit of a think before you dive into to doing stuff. So we we did that with all hands on deck. And while it was in that sort of preview mode, I had a couple of people email and go, I really want tickets for this, but how do I get them? I like, well, had to wait till the February 2 when they're gonna go on sale.
Millie:And then we posted I think we sent sent an attendee email. So if you signed up to the UK Games Expo email newsletter, we we warned people RPG tickets were gonna go on sale on the second February. And then we also put out on social media RPG tickets will go on sale on the February 2. And then on the February 2, we went, they're on sale now. And all hands on deck sold out in less than twenty four hours.
Millie:Cranky! Was one of the fastest selling big events. I know some of the small six play tables will sell out because that's basically a playgroup, right? And I, you turn up, you buy six tickets, now we've got that in. But for something that had 55 tickets, it sold out in less than twenty four hours and then immediately when it came to my inbox the next day, there were half a dozen people going, I missed it.
Millie:I can't find it. Where has it gone? I'm like, I'm sorry, it sold out.
Matthew:But that's not the only thing you had. You had people coming to you saying, where's the Dragonbane tournament?
Millie:So, yeah, we've we've had what have we had? Sinking Tower and Magisters Gambit were the the two Dragonbane tournaments.
Matthew:Was the last year.
Millie:That have been run. I feel them quite cute but also quite focused. Like go! Delve! Delve into the tower!
Millie:Find the part! The kind of things. And because you and Ana are arranging the all hands on deck, we didn't really talk about Dragonbane. Then there was these folks who have been, for the last two years, running the tournament, split not running, playing in the tournament. They're like, Dragonbane?
Millie:I was like, okay. Let me go and chat with chat with Anna. Yeah. And and she checked. The biggest thing here is making sure it's translated into English in time.
Matthew:Yeah.
Millie:Because I know everybody's like, oh, there's over a hundred days left to the expo. Actually, what is there left now? Less than a hundred days as we're recording now. But we've got to get that to the GMs in time for them to read it and prep it. We've also got to look at whether we need to print some big maps or, you know, that kind of stuff.
Millie:Yeah. So the the translation is always a a thing with that one. But she's confirmed we will. So here you go. For for effect listeners, there will be a Dragonbane tournament.
Millie:Let me just find the name of it. What is it?
Matthew:So this is the scoop isn't it? It's not yet on the website that there is one yet.
Millie:No it's not yet on the website and I hope maybe with the effect listeners who are able to get to Birmingham in less than a hundred days time. Some of them might also really wanna take part in the GM aspect because I need some more GMs to run it. Because as we've said with the the Alien one, it sells out quite fast. So we wanna make sure we've got enough GMs that it's it's online with enough seats.
Matthew:Yeah.
Millie:So it's Dragonbane, the Crypt Of The Golden Star. It's got lots of what I term fantasy names, which are names and locations I butcher when I'm trying to say them out loud. It's, yeah, The Crypt Of The Golden Star, where players are going to try and delve into a deep, dark crypt to save a who is it? He is a governor of is the name dying governor Keilor Gildensternier. Maybe Anna should have came on and said those names for me.
Matthew:Well, maybe near the time we can get Andreas from Swedenborg to pronounce these because he wrote this, I think, didn't he?
Millie:Yes, he did. Yes.
Matthew:I'm just looking for what you told me before, but I think he did. Yeah. I don't know who a forefarter is.
Millie:Yeah, the copy I have isn't in English.
Matthew:But assuming that means author, I'm guessing
Millie:it's Yes, and for of maps and such. If that is what Fawthate is, then yes, he wrote it. Two things. We are going to be running this event on the Saturday of UKGE, as is traditional for the Dragonbane tournament around about noon ish, that afternoon slot, established their third year. It's gonna be the first place you can play this in English.
Millie:Mhmm. And the GMs who run it will be the fur some of the first GMs in the world to see it in English, because, Obviously, is already published in a different language. That is the first thing. We would really love a few more folks. I believe might have a are we calling it?
Millie:An MC, a house GM, a master of ceremonies from the effect
Matthew:of Yeah, which is the role that I have fulfilled in previous years. But I'm not volunteering this year because I'm staying up till midnight the night before and I also have a stall to run. Yes.
Millie:So we might have a master of ceremonies from the effectors code and we'd love more folks to come and join. If you do join, if you do join as a GM, you get free Saturday entry. Thank you. Which is
Matthew:a cool thing. And that's not just for this game, although No. This game is obviously the thing you should be choosing to join for. But if you wanna run any game
Millie:Say if you wanted to run like Tales of the Old West something like Which is that a
Matthew:very good game to run. Well done.
Millie:It's very good game to run. Yeah. I hear there's a good little campfire, not a tale in there, about something about silver and a missing prospectus. You could adapt. But yes, say if you wanted to run any game over the weekend, day you run a game on, we will give you free entry.
Millie:If you run a number or more, get free you know, one run, well, words, run one on Friday, one run on Saturday, one run on Sunday. That's a weekend pass for you. And the thing I always laugh about this is, like, you love running games anyway, so it's basically free entry for four hours of fun. But, yeah, it's really simple. You can you can apply on the UK Games Expo website if you wanna run something yourself.
Millie:If you want to take part in the Dragonbane one, you just need to drop me an email, which is millieukgamesexpo dot co dot uk. Or there's a contact form on the website. Or in fact if you accidentally email one of my six other colleagues. We are just a small team so it does just get flung across to the right person. Don't feel like you have to be that.
Millie:There's not many of us.
Matthew:Talking of which then, so it's a small team isn't it and you're busy doing things so I guess people shouldn't expect an immediately, you know, if they don't get a reply straight away like the day after, don't worry, it isn't that they don't think you're good enough, It's just that you guys have got to get around to it. I
Millie:was I was laughing about this with my boss Tony when we were talking about things the other day because people this year assume there's some sort of automated review process or or something. Like, UK Games Expo is entirely human ran. Last year we had over five eighteen RPG tables running across the weekend. Now every single one of those game submissions is read by me. Like, I I read every single one of those pitches, and I respond to them.
Millie:Every single one of those GMs I think it was a 150 something GMs last week. Every single one of them has, at some point, received an email from me that ranges from, Can you give me more than one sentence in your pitch? To Thanks very much for your pitch. It's online. Welcome to the team.
Millie:So there is no automated AI scanning your things. I don't have teams of people helping me review this. It is just me. And I don't know, the frog in my pocket, my proverbial frog. I might just get a plushie for that.
Millie:So it does take me a little while. And whilst I am also reviewing the RPGs, if you wanted to come and run, I don't know, a tournament of some kind think I was talking with someone recently about a June Imperium tournament. I'm scheduling them as well. And then if you wanted to do, like, I don't know, top tips for freelancing writing that somebody on the Effect team has run a couple of years
Matthew:in a I've done a few years in a
Millie:You're doing
Matthew:that again. Sorry. He and I hardly talk because you know what it's like when you're business partners.
Millie:Yeah. I think we've had a chat about it this year. But like I said, there is a of a lot of plates spinning, so that doesn't mean I've
Matthew:That he hasn't dropped your line.
Millie:He hasn't dropped you, hasn't submitted it. And you do just need to give me a little bit of patience. I will get to you. Although if you put Dragonbane Tournament in your subject header, that might That might
Matthew:creep further up the queue.
Millie:I might notice that in my inbox triage as it's called a little bit sooner.
Matthew:Brilliant. Well, I know you've got a lot to do and I'm recording this while I'm meant to be at work as well. It's been a real pleasure talking with you Millie and I'll pass that on to Dave that if he wants to do a seminar he better get in touch with you and he'll be listening to this and obviously we'll be talking about it straight after this recording is finished.
Millie:Yeah, do. And then if any other, you know, effect folks, anyone listening, has an at pitch, it's not all just like it is community. Like I'm a community manager. It's not big official people manager. So don't think you're not fancy enough to host a seminar or do talk or that kind of thing or run a game at UK Games Expo.
Matthew:Yeah, so I'm talking to you Craig. You could be doing a talk about all your brilliant solo and duet games that you're publishing. Go on Craig. Yeah and people developing community content stuff like that you might want to talk about that. But particularly what you really want to do this year is run the Dragonbane tournament.
Matthew:Yes. Everybody hear that?
Millie:Yes, you do. Thank you very much for chatting.
Matthew:Brilliant. Thank you. Great to talk to you, Millie.
Dave:Okay. Well, that's cool. Brilliant to hear that Alien has sold out so quickly. So that is great. I mean, I guess no surprise.
Dave:Cause Alien's a great game, despite the person writing the scenario, an MC.
Matthew:Yeah. It's because I was writing in, not you, that they thought it might be worth joining in.
Dave:Yeah. Funny that. Also, yeah. So the dragon painting as well. So that's that's that's cool.
Dave:That's a bit of good news. Yeah. Always a pleasure to to listen to Millie talking about UK Games Expo.
Matthew:And the key thing, the message that I want you listeners to take away is join as a GM, volunteer to GM, either on the Dragonbane tournament or any other games you want to do. There's that's, you know, they're they're looking for GMs still.
Dave:Right. We should probably call it quits there for today.
Matthew:Yeah. What are we doing next time?
Dave:That's a good question. We had talked about earlier me doing something on the joys of Coriolis.
Matthew:Yeah. Maybe. Or strictly speaking, it might be my turn to do a thing, but I haven't got an idea
Dave:yet. It is strictly speaking. Or maybe you should do an essay on the joys of Coriolis. Maybe.
Matthew:Maybe.
Dave:Well, we will think of something
Matthew:Well, we'll do something.
Dave:Dear listeners, and have some more some content for you next time, I'm sure. Cool. But until then, I think it's goodbye from me.
Matthew:And it's goodbye from him. And may the icons bless your adventures.
Dave:You have been listening to the Effect podcast, presented by Fiction Suit and the RPG Gods. Music stars on a black sea used with permission of Free League Publishing.