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A daily podcast delving into the biggest stories of the day throughout the sports betting and igaming sector.
Charlie Horner (00:02.104)
The Premier League is back on Friday, and that means operators are finding new ways to engage with fans ahead of the long campaign to come. As Coventry City prepare for life back in the Premier League against Champions Arsenal on Friday, fans will have the opportunity to win big based on star player performances. That's through 7, a new free to play app from Entain via its Angstrom Sports brand. So welcome back to iGaming Daily, supported by Optimove, the creator of Positionless Marketing.
And the number one player engagement solution for sports betting and iGaming operators. I'm Charlie Horner and I'm joined by editor of SBC News Ted Orm Clay. And today we are sitting down with Ross Jarvis, who's the director of strategy at Angstrom, to discuss the launch of Seven, as well as how AI, data, and analytics is influencing the industry. Ross, thanks ever so much for joining us. how's things?
Ross Jarvis (00:55.744)
Yeah, good thanks. Great to be here guys. Big fan of the show and Charlie, big fan of your promotion for Seven up front. I think you've done my job for me, so thank you for that as well.
Charlie Horner (01:02.574)
yeah, the the checks in the post, don't worry about it right. Ted, how are you?
Ted Orme-Claye (01:02.839)
Ha ha ha.
Ross Jarvis (01:07.609)
Hahaha
Ted Orme-Claye (01:08.216)
He
Yeah, I'm pretty good, thank you Charlie. Looking forward to the Premier League starting, looking forward to Forrest taking on Sunderland so we can have bit of an office derby. And yeah, I'm very interested in hearing more from Ross about this new app that Entain have launched, that Angstrom have launched, I should say for Entain. We covered the news on SBC News last week and I think it's indicative of some quite interesting trends we're seeing in the industry right now.
Charlie Horner (01:37.452)
Yeah, absolutely. and I think on on a wider point, I think Angstrun's a a really interesting company for for the talking about the the way that AI and data and and advanced analytics has has influenced the sports industry. And that's something that we've seen develop ever since Entain made that acquisition back in twenty twenty three. Ross, I'd love to just kick off by
Asking if you could break down Angstrom's setup and and explain how you act as sort of the the pricing, risk and trading engine for for Entains BetM Gm. I think primarily in the US, right?
Ross Jarvis (02:11.313)
Yeah, of course.
Angstrom has been going since I think 2018, small group of founders, then sort of gradually expanded over there. As you said, we've been owned by Entain for a couple of years now. And so if we think about our setup, you know, much like kind of many traditional businesses, you know, in this industry, we have modeling and data engineering, we have technology, product, strategy, operations. But I think even though lot of those job titles or job functions will sound similar, I think at Angstrom, have
we have quite a unique setup. So for us, because our DNA very much is in US sports and US sports models, which again, our ambition, our vision that area is to be as precise, as advanced as possible and to be truly industry leading. So actually our modeling and data engineering part is very much the heart of our business. We think about the sports we model in which we have products out in the market for right now. And again, we'll touch on the more detailed examples of this later, but.
We have real NFL passionate experts who have recreated these models from scratch. And that then leads off into our product decisions around, okay, once we've got these models in place, what are the interesting unique markets which we can put out there into the marketplace. And then think the other part of our business which can't ever be overlooked is our trading arm.
So again, know, traders are a key part of any gambling business, but I think in most areas, you know, that trading role is well defined and has, you know, to some degree, some guardrails around it. Angstrom, we've really wanted to hire really skilled, experienced operators in that trading arm and give them a lot of autonomy as well. So because of our, because our models are all built fully from the ground up. So for example, in one of my first weeks at Angstrom, I've been here about three and a half years. I was sat with head of our MBA, just sort of say, okay, show me how these models work.
Ross Jarvis (04:00.203)
And it was amazing to see how again, Alex on our team would adjust the workbook and the models to such a precise bit of data whereby if we thought LeBron James was going to get slightly less minutes that evening due to an overload due to playing recent games or so on, you know, just by adjusting his average rebounds down from say 10.5 down to 9.5, you know, we'd see in real time how that impacts every single other player related to LeBron James, but also related to the other players on his team, know, Austin Reeves, et cetera, you know, for LeBron's getting
slightly less assists that means Austin's might go up and our models very much are based on that sort of real combinatoric basis. Everything has an impact on everything else and we think that's why you know in a complete vacuum our prices are as accurate as they ever can be and our traders are on the front line absolutely passionate about the sport and talking about every single variable in real time which is actually quite a fun sideshow to watch if you're in a room with them during NFL season and so on. So that's a real brief overview of how we work as a business that helps us get product out the door.
we've got our operations and support functions as well. So again, I think a really high standard of business, but one that's somewhat quite unique in the industry as well.
Charlie Horner (05:08.45)
Yeah, absolutely. Ted, I remember when we were reporting on on the acquisition of Angstrom a good few years ago and and I think that was the the main takeaway from from it was that it would make the the pricing as accurate as it possibly can be, isn't it? So that's that's something that that we picked up on at the time. I I guess from from an editorial point, Ted, how do you see how how s the use of adva advanced technology like this can help improve trading strategies and things like that?
Ted Orme-Claye (05:38.978)
Well, mean, you know, the industry is as competitive as ever. think Ross has touched on a lot of this now, it's talking about the importance of the accuracy of trading, of making things real time as possible, updating quickly. know, can be a very fickle bunch, I guess, you know, when there's so many options available to them, so many different sports books available, whether that's in the US or over here in the UK. And then that can't, you know, that...
how quick odds update, how quickly the markets update can be a big kicker for the average customer when they're looking at the different products available to them, different sports books available to them. And yeah, that's a real big technological advantage there, giving a company a competitive advantage in that side of things. I think, like you say, Charlie, back when Entain acquired Angstrom, that was a big takeaway we got from it.
that was clearly quite a big focus point. And I think it was quite indicative at the time of how many large, big multinational companies like Entain, but then also like Flutter, Leo Vegas and so on, were looking at how to take those sort of technological capabilities and bring them in-house, make sure that they had that on hand to be used whenever they need to. ultimately I think that comes down to the fact that they recognized how important having that technological edge is when...
going up against a lot of quite fierce competition.
Ross Jarvis (07:05.497)
And Ted, if I can just build on that a second, I think you make such a great point. know, obviously at Angstrom, as I just talked about, know, what we're really passionate and focused on, know, when it comes back to in-houses, okay, what is the actual best price here? But of course we're not naive. Actually, sometimes the best or more accurate price is not always kind of what you define as the right price because, you know, depending on what the trading strategy is you have for a certain sport or even for a certain sporting weekend, you know, is there something huge going on like the Superbowl or something, you know,
Ted Orme-Claye (07:07.437)
course.
Ross Jarvis (07:35.304)
you may want to be best in market for a certain market class. may want to focus on again using an NFL example. You may want to be best in market just for touchdowns. So maybe you need to be more balanced in somewhere else within your book and your pricing. So again, while we sort of pride ourselves in having the best price inverted commas, we very much are industry experts as well who are able to understand those nuances of the sort of commercial elements as well, because I think, you without having that well rounded knowledge, that's really what brings a good spot.
product to customers as well.
Charlie Horner (08:08.312)
Sure. Ross, you mentioned at the start there that you'd been with Angstrom for about three and a half years. So if if if that's if that's correct, it then that was just before the acquisition. So you've seen what the company was like before the acquisition and and now as part of part of Entain. looking back over that period, what have been sort of the most interesting or or exciting product deliveries that your team's managed to roll out and
I guess, fr from an editorial point of view as well, it'd be great to know how you how you sort of adopted AI throughout the business and made things a bit more sort of efficient as well.
Ross Jarvis (08:45.121)
Yeah, it's a great question. So when I first joined the business, we had several different clients and we were very much focused on, we saw there was a massive gap, if you like, a couple of years ago when the US industry was still in its relative infancy around pricing and offering of products to customers, especially in the player prop space. Again, this will tie into the seven conversation a bit later on, I'm sure we're going to have whereby probably ahead of Europe, US sports and media has always been very player and superstar focused.
driven by proliferation of stats on TV broadcasts forever, all the way down to, I'm sure, sort of side bets made by viewers as they watch the games. So when we had that as our initial starting point for the business, and look back over three years, it's amazing how far we've come because...
We still have player props as our pride and joy across all the six major US sports and that goes in anything through to micro markets, through to what one of my favorite areas of work in angstrom is kind of letting our traders and product experts run wild with what we sometimes call signature bets which I think I believe we were the first in the market to say have which players can score the first point in this NBA game and with a correct accurate price against it. But that's all again a key part of our offering still but I think the major
development we've had over the last three years or so has been our same game parlay product. So when we were acquired by Entain and obviously via the joint venture with BetMGM we have real close partnerships with both. The SGP was something which we were very very close to being ready with. Since that time period of know think just shy of three years being in business with Entain and BetMGM in this capacity we've now got SGP live for I believe most of the core US sports with the exception of NHL. So that's MLB, NFL,
MBA and the two college sports. Again, most of those including MBA, MLB and NFL fully both in play and pre-match. And I've heard a great start last week that we now power over 90 % of BetMGM's SGP revenue. So to see that we've gone there in just what's probably about two and a half years span, and again, what I'd to think with excellent pricing operations and continual innovation improvement in that product when it comes to how we combine those and how that UX on the front end
Ross Jarvis (11:03.107)
starts to improve over time. That to me is kind of, know, what Angstrom's pride and joy is at the moment in terms of our product delivery.
Charlie Horner (11:11.256)
Yeah, absolutely. A really strong product delivery over that over that period of time and and primarily it focused on on US sports, as you say, Ross. But n notably not not anymore, that's not limited to just US sports because w you you've decided to move into football. I think you're British, so we'll keep it a football, not soccer. so what motivated Angstrom, I guess, to take that
Ross Jarvis (11:25.728)
Yeah.
Ross Jarvis (11:32.052)
Yeah, yeah, of course.
Ted Orme-Claye (11:32.707)
Yeah.
Charlie Horner (11:37.09)
that approach and apply it to football and and ultimately how do you think that that led to the creation of of the seven app?
Ross Jarvis (11:43.904)
Yeah, I promise I'll get to your question in a minute, but the irony of being a UK London based business who pretty much deals specifically in US sports certainly wasn't lost on me when I first started talking with everybody and over the years, but we've made it work. I think that's partly because again, I think sport transcends all nations, right? You can be absolutely huge NFL fan in Greece just as much as you can be in the UK or in the US. So that's, but then like you said, bringing it full circle, you know, obviously working in the UK and all.
Ted Orme-Claye (11:54.531)
You
Ross Jarvis (12:13.857)
court as being here.
and naturally a lot of us are big football fans as well. So, 7 as an opportunity when it came up was just sort of gold dust, especially for me, who is a absolute huge fantasy football nerd as well as working in this industry. So what we felt with 7 was we wanted to kind of blur those boundaries, if you like, between a real mini gaming free to play app, but having the quality and engagement value of everybody's favorite fantasy apps, whether that's Claw or Fantasy Premier League.
rewind about two years ago I would say our very first conversation about seven came up.
I'll give you the real Cliff Notes version. got a call from our CEO, Jonathan Blazard, which usually leads to very interesting chat, sometimes with a few crazy ideas thrown in there. And this was one of the weirdest ones. Jonathan said, you know, I've always had this great idea for a free to play app or a free to play product. And I kind of feel like, you know, in our industry, it's not, it's a little bit under invested in, you know, we've got some great products out there, but most of the great products are built on the premise, which is 12, 15 years old.
they've had a ton of facelifts over the time but you kind of you know the expectations are set there isn't too much innovation in this space so his idea was okay i've got also this anchor for something built around you know predicting the first and last goals in the game and why don't we try and bring it to life and my initial response was this all sounds great but you know this is not our business why why would we be trusted to do this and in true Jonathan fashion he'd already sorted that part and we were sort of off to work so the premise of seven and i'll get
Ross Jarvis (13:50.568)
back to kind of why we jumped into this in a moment. The premise of seven is very simple. each and every game week you have a complete blank canvas. So it's not like FPL where you pick players in game week one and you're stuck with them whether they get injured or have some bad form. You have a complete blank canvas and you have to pick a squad of seven players. So that's three forwards and four players from any other position.
and the aim of the game is very, simple. In their fixture that weekend, you need your player to score either the first goal or the last goal. If they score a middle goal, for example, if Harland scores an equalizer in a 2-1 defeat, it doesn't count. It's completely pointless. And that's the whole anchor of the game. There's strategy involved in that you're only allowed to pick the same player seven times in each half of the season. So, you know, again, I'll use that Harland example. If you're picking Harland away at Liverpool, you're probably not thinking that clearly when you you might want to pick, say, Brian.
at home to whole city or something like that. So we wanted to keep the strategy there for players to have a little bit more to dive into. But we also were very cognizant that, you in the FPL world, especially as the best example, and I'm guilty of this, you do need to have subscriptions to numerous sites to help you have a chance at cracking the top 10k or winning your mini leagues these days. And for most people, know, having two full-time jobs is one job too many. So we wanted to fit in that space of...
you know, if FPL is again, like a really rich endeavor for you to try and do well at, but if some of these other free to play games on the other side are much more transactional, they might take two minutes of your time, but you don't really need to put too much thought into it. Surely there's a gap in the middle, which is, know, what's going to take me five, 10 minutes. I'll check my team on a Tuesday. I'll confirm it on a Friday. I'll add it into my rotation of apps all weekend. You know, you're flicking between live score, FPL, seven, FOTMOB. We want to be in
conversation where you know it doesn't feel like an arduous task it feels like you're adding I don't know five percent of enjoyment to your football weekends and so that's why we wanted to pitch seven just that balance of strategy along with you know it's fun and again coming back to that hook which I just wanted to touch on one more time why did we choose first and last
Ross Jarvis (15:59.754)
We hated that feeling of, know, in the gambling industry, you put a bet builder on, World Cup being a great example. Let's say England to win to nil and all your bets are based around that. You've also got Kane to score. You've also got over 2.5 goals, et cetera. As soon as Norway score that opener, you're dead. The rest of the game has 75 minutes, 100 minutes goes to extra time. That excitement's completely gone. One of our non-negotiables from the start was we want someone who's playing seven to have a degree of interest through to the 90th
minute or with VAR what's more likely the hundredth minute and you look at the charity shield yesterday as a great example obviously 7 wasn't active during the charity shield but if you'd had O'Reilly, Harlan, Cherokee etc in your team it doesn't matter that Arsenal are killing them 3-0 all that matters for you is you know please Cherokee please shoot please score in the 95th minute get that pointless consolation and that's what we were trying to tap into that kind of like real excitement and drama with those seven users
Charlie Horner (16:59.96)
Sure, yeah, keeping the keeping the action going right to the very end. Ross, Ted will take a very short break and we'll come back and we'll continue the the discussion.
Welcome back to iGaming Daily. Ted, I'll bring you in now because I think the with the with the launch of Seven it it sort of taps into two different observations I've made about about football and the way people interact with it in in in recent years. One one is the statification of football. I think compared to the US user, we are less or we have traditionally been less interested in the statification of of sport, but that's probably changing now.
And I think the other one is, and it's this is something that we've spoken about off air and to do with the World Cup is people are betting on players far more than they were beforehand, in terms of people would used to bet on teams rather than players. That that feels like it's shifting now. Just just from from your perspective, Ted, how do you see that that sort of shift towards players and stats in in terms of people's engagement with football?
Ted Orme-Claye (18:02.563)
Well, yeah, mean, like you say, Charlie, we are seeing a lot of, as you say, statification of the sport. And this is something that Ross has just obviously talked about quite extensively in the first half of this podcast. And I think he made a very interesting point about how and that's a point that you've reiterated as well, actually, Charlie. And that's how, you know, US led that has been particularly in US sports media. They've always been very ahead of the curve really with quantifying how great a player is.
I think is their sort of thing is putting the detail in front of you and just saying like, here's why this basketball player, this NFL player is the best on the field in this and giving you a thorough breakdown of that. Obviously, you know, we've been kind of catching up on that in the UK and Europe, I think, but not, but they've always been the big leader in it. And I think that is starting to translate a lot over to like we talked about with fantasy sports and the sort of, you know, looking at the different form of players for your team and so on.
I think the fantasy Premier League is now the most used it's ever been. There's well over 12 million people using it, think, which is pretty crazy in and of itself. There's more people than playing that than there are in a lot of countries out there. And yeah, think it's only inevitable that that will then transfer over to sports betting as well. On top of that, over the past couple of decades, really, we've seen sports personalities become...
The celebrity culture around them I think is the biggest it's ever been. think social media has probably been a big driver of that. If you look at the 10 most followed athletes on social media, Ronaldo, Messi, two of big names there, hundreds of millions of followers between them. You still obviously get a lot of people who are very loyal to their clubs, any football fan will be, but on top of that they're also very closely following players and they know how good these people are.
So you're going to be tracking that performance and thinking, how can I, know, fantasy players, how can I get a few points on my team if you're a better, how will I maybe win a couple of quid off this if I know that they're playing a, you know, a team with a much worse defence, will they get a few goals in? It's only really inevitable. And I think, I think, you know, the work Entain and Angstrom have done there is probably quite indicative of that, you know, they've taken note of that trend in my view.
Charlie Horner (20:22.944)
Yeah, is that is that something that you've noticed, Ross? Yeah?
Ross Jarvis (20:23.371)
think there's one thing in it. Yeah, sorry to cut you off, Charlie. Yeah, absolutely not. think, you when Ted was talking, it made me think of something in that, you know.
fan obsession with kind of superstars and great players in any sport or great athletes. It's easy to think this is a new phenomenon, but obviously Muhammad Ali, Mike Tyson, Michael Jordan, et cetera, it's always been there. But what I think is really different as we're in 2026 is the way that we can access these superstar players, a way that we can view footage in real time or very close to or in highlights form has changed so much.
Ted Orme-Claye (20:46.723)
Mm.
Ross Jarvis (21:03.939)
become much more accessible. I feel like, know, think about, I don't know how old you guys are, but I remember, you know, soccer AM on a Saturday morning, one of the best segments was a showboat, you know, that's where you get to see whether it's on read back in the day, not making someone or so on. You know, you have to wait once a week for that. That's prolific and prevalent everywhere now on YouTube and so on and so forth. And that's again, with seven, we were trying to tap into an audience who
is much more in that space of whether it's FIFA or EA Sports now as it's called, or is watching highlight clips of football online. More so than we were trying to tap into a traditional recreational gambler. And the reason we tried to do that was we wanted Seven to more reflect what their behaviors and interests were on those platforms. So again, you're always gonna have those football fans who are, as you said, whether it's Arsenal upset,
or man you obsessed and I think you know when you put out a good football product for those guys they're going to lap it up whatever but I think where the real opportunity and the untapped audience potentially is is how do you appeal to those guys for whom football is not their life their absolute soul their passion but it's just one of the aspects which you know they really enjoy so they're football fans but they don't they don't let their lives be shaped by it and for those guys you know who want to be able to legibly have a conversation in the pub with their mates about you know which to
teams are informed, which managers need to be sacked, et cetera. What would be the game which actually appeals to them, which fits in with that? So it's not too in-depth, it doesn't request too much of them, but it makes them feel like they're part of the football conversation. And for us at Seven, it was to try and really be authentic in that way, to try and reach those kind of WhatsApp groups and to appeal to that audience, knowing that, you know, whether it's in the gambling space or the real hardcore football audience, when you put a hundred grand jackpot and a free shot of that up there, you've probably done your kind of positioning work to attract those audiences.
So we really wanted to focus in on, okay, from a product, emotional, and kind of real engagement driver, how do we take that take on the audience who perhaps just isn't engaging with these type of products at the moment?
Charlie Horner (23:13.73)
Sure. No, I I'm something I'm really, really interested in, Ross, is the the the development behind the product, really, because you said earlier this this isn't naturally Angstrom's business to to to make. It's you know, usually it's a it's sort of a back office or a more more data-driven thing for for trade in, etc. So how do you bring together that scientific statistical model sort of engine and then bring that
into and turn that into a a product that is has a really good user interface, delivers a really good user experience that people want to put into their rotations with Fotmob like Ladbrooks, like Coral and things like that. How how do you build that product out?
Ross Jarvis (23:54.581)
Yeah, yeah.
Yeah, it's a great question. when we started with seven, know, our very first thing was, do we have, do we have a hook of a game which we think people will be interested in? And the more we kind of stress tested that across untamed across angstrom, you know, the more we were getting support, but a there's a market opportunity here and that be the first and last goal concept is something truly unique and innovative and which can really deliver on that promise. So again, then we hit on your problem, which you were saying, Charlie, okay, which is like, okay, then how do we marry our traditional work with bringing this
opportunity to life. So we did that in kind of two ways. First of all, we spun up essentially a new team from scratch, all made up of industry experts, whether that is across UX, UI, engineering, testing. We spun up that team pretty much from scratch, merged in with a handful of Angstrom FTEs who essentially lent in and let those guys know how Angstrom works as a business. But then on the flip side, we also had our modeling work to really rely on. And so that was integral in many ways.
One of the key things was...
The way that the scoring works within seven, again, not to compare ourselves all the time to other operators that are out there, but we didn't just want to be an essential lottery with a large jackpot where, you know, going in, you know, you're probably 500,000 to want it, this jackpot at best, or that jackpot's only going to hit two times a season. We really wanted to marry that with, you know, yes, we've got a big jackpot prize, but A, that jackpot prize is more attainable, which we believe it totally is versus competition. But B, you're going to
Ross Jarvis (25:29.507)
have smaller prizes and for us that starts from getting just three first or last goals per game week, which depending on the type of start, time of season and which players are eligible to play for you, because remember you've got seven use cap, can be as low as seven to one each week, depending if you've got favorable fixtures. So the modeling side really came in there. So how do we make this game just difficult enough that we're not bankrupting the business each and every week, but easy enough so that players feel like A, they're either winning enough to keep
playing or B, and we all know in gambling kind of like the excitement of it is just as much as winning sometimes or B, they feel like they're getting close enough, but they're making progression and making reasonable, sensible picks each and every week. And if it wasn't for that pesky 95th minute goal, I'd have had this weekend sorted. So that was where we really tried to marry those two sides. We had the modeling and the data looking back over numerous Premier League seasons, utilizing our contract with Opta and that enabled us to set
things such as game difficulty rules in place to really balance out that game experience for customers as well.
Charlie Horner (26:35.672)
Yeah. Always just one goal away from that huge Aka landing. I know that feeling. Ted, I'll I'll bring you Ted, I'll I'll bring you in now because I think that's something that we see quite often in the industry is there there are always fantastic ideas out there, but it's it's it's almost about making sure that the experience and the interface crucially are are sort of really important are really engaging to keep those players coming back. People want to
Ross Jarvis (26:40.861)
Yeah and then we actually ran them.
Ted Orme-Claye (26:41.901)
you
Charlie Horner (27:04.76)
have a of an experience that's enjoyable where the app works and and then they'll they'll come back for more. What what do you think about that one?
Ted Orme-Claye (27:12.515)
Yeah, mean, that's, yeah, you're 100 % right, Charlie. I think that's undeniable at the end of the day. know, there's so, like we talked about earlier, there's so many sports books out there now that customers have got, especially in markets like the UK, customers have got free reign, they're free to choose, and you need to be on the top of your game there. You need to deliver them the best, yeah, the best UX you can. You need to incentivise them with that to keep coming back. Otherwise, they'll go to the competitor that has the better one.
I think the other thing as well is probably product diversification now, thinking of new ways to engage people. think from the conversation we've had today and from the press release and everything that I used, that I read last week when I was writing the article about Anstroman 7's new product, that seems to be something that you guys have taken in mind as well, Ross, the idea of having a wider portfolio, thinking of new ways to engage the player. I think, you
There's loads of different ways of engaging a customer and building up a relationship with them. Products obviously always gonna be one of those, that's the top one really. Brand and marketing are also important, with, especially in the UK I think with the restrictions we've got coming in on marketing and the way operators can promote themselves, with the new tax increases, putting some more pressure on marketing budgets and things like that.
I wouldn't be surprised if we start seeing an even heavier emphasis on product and on product diversification as a way of engaging with customers. And that will include free to play or fantasy inspired products that are also taking cues from, like we've talked about today, a lot of the observations I think this industry is making about the data led and stats led.
way that customers and sports fans follow their favorite teams and leagues and players.
Ross Jarvis (29:09.377)
Yeah, it's a great point Ted. And one of the things again, we've had fantastic support from Labbrokes and Entain in this endeavor over the last couple of years, getting Seven to market. I think one of the things we've always been sort steadfast on within the Seven team is, know, if we, and again, under no illusions, but you know, a key KPI for us is, you know, driving traffic eventually through to Labbrokes, getting FTDs or retaining players better. That's absolutely part of the business plan. But what we were always really steadfast all along was, you
That's the end goal. It's not the starting point. You know, the starting point is just what you were saying, Ted. It's creating a great customer experience, getting people to download in the first place through interesting differential, differentialized, that's probably not a word, marketing, which will be going live as of this week, but then crucially keeping them there through four game weeks, through six game weeks, through eight game weeks. Then I think what you'll find is, you know, if seven does its job and we create a mass audience, let's say we have 500,000 active users for sake of argument.
You know 250,000 of those might never have gambled before they might have zero interesting gambling They may never convert and that's absolutely fine. You know, we want that as an interesting challenge with an entain Okay, what can we do with these guys? How can we serve them? But then you think about those other buckets you might have everything from Customers who are gambling with different websites from lab Brooks and how can we offer them a USP? Which are not getting anywhere else or customers are already in the lab Brooks ecosystem But you know this just helps them retain a little bit better
because it's something they really won't find with any of their competitors and they feel like they're getting that extra added value. So when we thought about building 7, yes, one of the end goals was that commercialization, but we were really passionate all along, but there's no chance of that coming unless we create a product which we ourselves really want to play and in time, our audience do as well.
Charlie Horner (31:01.57)
Fantastic. Well, Ross, thanks ever so much for coming on the show today and sharing some of your experience and expertise. I've really enjoyed the conversation. Ted, thanks for joining me as always. really enjoyed to have having you on as well. Thanks to UpTomove for supporting the show, and to our audience, thanks for listening to today's episode of iGaming Daily, and come back tomorrow to keep up to date with all the latest global gambling news.