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From Here Forward shares stories and ideas about amazing things UBC and its alumni are doing around the world. It covers people and places, truths, science, art, and accomplishments with the view that sharing better inspires better. Join hosts Carol Eugene Park and Jeevan Sangha, both UBC grads, in exploring solutions for the negative stuff out there — focussing on the good for a change, from here forward.
[00:00:00] Carol Eugene Park: Hello, friendly alumni. Welcome back to From Here Forward, our award-winning UPC Podcast Network podcast. I'm Carol.
[00:00:07] Jeevan Sangha: And I'm Jeevan. How's the winter season been treating you carol?
[00:00:11] Carol Eugene Park: Happy December. It's been nothing but good vibes over here. You know me. I prefer the colder season, so while many people might be experiencing some of their lowest of lows, I have been thriving. What about yourself? Have you been crashing out 'cause 2026 is around the corner.
[00:00:30] Jeevan Sangha: Oh, definitely. I mean, I love the winter seasons too. I feel like I love the cozy energy. I love being inside with a blanket. All of that just feels very winter to me. But I feel like I'm ahead of schedule on my existential crisis for the year. I'm still excited for all that lies ahead, but I feel like it's just kind of comes with the territory.
[00:00:47] Carol Eugene Park: She is prepared, one might argue, which we love that. I am very late on my existential crisis schedule. I think she's coming next week. I'll let you know how that goes down. But back to the topic at hand, we are an alumni podcast, so it's only fitting really that Juvan has compiled some UBC fun facts to lead us into introducing our guest today.
[00:01:09] Jeevan Sangha: Okay, so Carol. Did you know that the University of British Columbia has a student population of nearly 71,000 people with over 11,000 studying at the Okanagan campus?
[00:01:22] Carol Eugene Park: I did not know that.
[00:01:23] Jeevan Sangha: Well, did you also know that UBCO opened its doors in 2005, which if my math is correct, means the campus is celebrating its 20th anniversary this year?
[00:01:32] Carol Eugene Park: You know, it's really cute that you, asked that question 'cause I did in fact know, thanks to our lovely guest for this month's episode. Jeevan and I sat down with Dr. Lesley Cormack, the principal and deputy Vice Chancellor of UBC Okanagan,
[00:01:45] Jeevan Sangha: And as former UBC Vancouver students, we learned a lot about all the amazing things going on at our sister campus in the interior of BC.
[00:01:52] Carol Eugene Park: Grab a beverage, get comfortable and enjoy.
[00:01:56] Jeevan Sangha: To start, can you introduce yourself to our audience and tell us a bit about who you are and what you do.
[00:02:03] Dr. Lesley Cormack: My name's Lesley Cormack, and I am the principal and Deputy Vice Chancellor here at UBC Okanagan. I came here just over five years ago, in fact, I had been the dean of the Faculty of Arts at the University, Alberta, before that, and I came to UBCO July 1st, 2020, which if you think about it, was just as COVID was at its highest point. So it was, uh, a very interesting experience to come to a campus and not see anyone for eight months.
[00:02:32] Carol Eugene Park: That's a great segue into our next question. So, with your five-year anniversary, what are some things that you are thinking about or reflecting on?
[00:02:41] Dr. Lesley Cormack: When I came, I came because I was attracted to three things.
[00:02:45] First of all, that we were part of a big research university, uh, one of the best universities in Canada that had really strong research credentials. That we were embedded in a smaller and close-knit community. And third, that we had a foundational relationship with the Okanagan nation. And those three things felt unique in the post-secondary system in Canada.
[00:03:10] And I would tell you, that all three of those have turned out to be true. That we are smaller. Research intensive campus and university, which is really unusual so that students can actually have the experience of working in top research labs with really strong research professors and at the same time be in smaller classes, smaller community.
[00:03:36] I have found as I start to talk about the 20th anniversary, that people in the community will tell me they were responsible for bringing UBC to the valley. And so, we have hundreds of people in this community who feel that they have some kind of stake in the success of UBC Okanagan, which is so exciting.
[00:04:00] And so, it means that we have an obligation to do what's right for the community. But we do, and the relationship we have with the Syilx people has been amazing.
[00:04:11] Jeevan Sangha: I think another thing that's really exciting is research and new developments that can come out of an institution like UBCO. What are some of the key research findings, discoveries or entrepreneurial spinoffs that have come from the campus in your time that have made you excited?
[00:04:29] Dr. Lesley Cormack: We are in this community and so an awful lot of the research that we have done, we have done collaboratively with industries, with municipalities, with the Syilx people. I would say that the research that has been done in the area of language fluency and, and protection in the indigenous languages has been astonishing work and, and has really transformed the community.
[00:04:56] In the area of wildfire we've been working on how do we coexist with wildfire? You may know that this campus was evacuated three years ago when the wildfire came across the mountain towards us. We live in a space of wildfire, and we have to learn to coexist with wildfire. And that's not just about how do you put out fires, it's, it's also what happens to the wildlife. What happens to the, the biota? What do we do when we build urban environments on these, these spaces close to wildfire? So, there's been research on that work that has been going on, and it's actually exploding at the moment. We've got over 30 people who are doing wildfire adjacent research. Which I think is really exciting.
[00:05:46] We also though have people who are looking at green technology that we have a battery, a research center. We're looking at how do we recycle material to be in standing concrete that can withstand all of the problems that climate change is throwing our way? And how do we do that with other industries?
[00:06:05] We're also looking at aerospace and what can we do in collaboration with aerospace and how do we fly better? How do we make drones better? What does that look like?
[00:06:16] Carol Eugene Park: So, I'm gonna just throw it back to your 1990s scholarship days. Because I used to study Renaissance studies and I did read your Charting in Empire, and there you argue that geography's important for developing a worldview. So, in the context of UBCO, I'm curious what perspective you think the geography of the Okanagan forms for students on campus and alumni.
[00:06:40] Dr. Lesley Cormack: one of the things that I started to say, is, we all stand in a space. We're in the process of developing a new academic plan, and part of that plan is to really be grounded in space in the place that we live in. Andone of the things that I started to use is a slogan that got developed for UBC a long time ago, which was " From this place, we can change the world. "
[00:07:04] And we really do stand in a very particular geographical space as well as, as a historical space, a political space. I mean, the interior of British Columbia is fascinating in that way, and you know, this is a place that has incredible wealth in terms of agriculture value added as well in terms of tourism, but also high tech.
[00:07:30] It's a place where you can live and play, uh, four seasons of the year. It's one of the things that I think is really exciting is that it's a true four-season part of the world and, you know, we can have great skiing, we can have great water sports. There's, there's hiking all year round, and so our students are much more integrated into the ecology, into the nature that I think happens in lots of other institutions.
[00:07:57] It's a fast-growing place. So if we look at urban geography, Kelowna has been one of the fastest growing cities in Canada for the last five years, and that goes with a lot of growing pains and things that, especially our social scientists and our health professionals need to really be thinking about.
[00:08:15] Jeevan Sangha: And what are some key moments or historical events, milestones that have taken place in the last 20 years at UBCO that you know, maybe even students aren't familiar with or don't get the spotlight they deserve?
[00:08:29] Dr. Lesley Cormack: I've only been here for the last five years, so, uh, the rest of them I know as historian. When UBCO was founded 20 years ago, we had 3,500 students. We now have 12,000 students. In just 20 years that's an incredible expansion and, we also have more faculties, more programs. When UBCO was founded. There was no thought that we would have a school of engineering, but the people, the community, in the Okanagan, really insisted and they went to the government and said, no, no, there has to be engineering here.
[00:09:07] And so, they really were the boosters that allowed us to develop the school of engineering, which has been such a success and really has worked well with the engineering companies in the region. That's definitely one of the things that's happened in the last 20 years that's kind of amazing.
[00:09:26] We were founded knowing that we would have graduate students, but the number of graduate students that you have is much more than was originally imagined. So, in in our founding documents, it talks about 150 graduate students, that was on the 3,500 of course, we now have 1200 graduate students in a number of different areas who are going on to do amazing research.
[00:09:51] We, of course, built a lot of buildings. There's no question about that. So that part of the last 20 years has been building a whole bunch of structures, though, not as many in the last 10 years, but we're working on that right now.
[00:10:04] We have made the campus more diverse over this time. I'm very proud of the fact that we have 8% of our undergraduate population are indigenous students, and we actually have a higher percentage of students who are black on our campus than is the case in the Vancouver campus. Another thing that I would say is that, you know, about 25% of our students come from the Okanagan Valley, and 50% of our graduates stay after graduation. So, we are helping Kelowna and the Okanagan become younger, more diverse, more entrepreneurial; this is changing a whole complexion of the region.
[00:10:48] Carol Eugene Park: So, you mentioned growing pains. What were some of those growing pains with UBCO being a smaller campus and also just being in a town to what it is now?
[00:10:57] Dr. Lesley Cormack: Although we did a lot of build out in those first 10 years, we still are struggling with less space than we need, and I think we've been playing catch up almost the whole time. And you know, you look at other campuses that just have more space for student clubs, more space that that you can use for larger gatherings, even more classrooms, more recreational state, like we have deficits in just about everything.
[00:11:24] And you could say that we grew too fast, but I think that we grew to the amount that was needed in terms of domestic students and we started to welcome international students, which I think has been a net positive. But I would say the biggest concern I have is just that we do need more space. That's especially true in the research area because you need space for labs and graduate students, and those are things that you can't do just in the closet somewhere. Those really need to be purpose-built spaces.
[00:11:55] Jeevan Sangha: Acknowledging the immense growth, I'm curious what your future goals are for. UBCO and for the community that is at that campus every single day.
[00:12:05] Dr. Lesley Cormack: We will look back 20 years from now and just see what a, what a great ride we have been on, just as we have the 20 that have just finished. We have a new Bachelor of Commerce degree that is just starting in September, uh, which is going to transform the, our relationship with the business community and will be a huge attraction for students.
[00:12:29] We're also really looking at how our engineering school can work closely with industries, with businesses to make sure that students from the first time they come to campus have opportunities to do the kind of consultancy kind of work they, that they, they really build up that kind of embeddedness with industry and, and business so that they're really ready to move out of the other end.
[00:12:54] We've developed new academic vision, which is to be a campus that is teaching and learning and do research in the area of resiliency. So, I, I think that you're going to see the innovation take off. We're looking to develop the land north of campus to be a, a neighborhood of market housing, somewhat like UBC in Vancouver has. I expect that we will start to have like 12-month campus more than you have now with more opportunities for people to study and it's gonna be great.
[00:13:29] Carol Eugene Park: Sounds like you're gonna be very busy. So, we're just gonna move on to some fun questions. You've had a long day of meetings and research. You need to decompress and reground yourself. Where are you on the campus to do this?
[00:13:43] Dr. Lesley Cormack: Walking the trails that are right around the campus. One of the things that I was really excited to find out is that I could just walk out my office door and be walking in wilderness almost immediately with amazing views across the valley and
[00:13:57] so that would, definitely be, something I would think of.
[00:14:01] Jeevan Sangha: another fun question before we close out. Can you describe UBCO with the five senses? So, one for each that can bring us right into the campus. Paint a picture for us.
[00:14:14] Dr. Lesley Cormack: Obviously the easiest is sight and you know, I go, I go back to the four season nature of the area and campus that seeing the, the amazing trees that we have that are now changing color, the vista across the valley, the occasional plane taking off. That's always I least interesting part of it. But also, when you walk into the courtyard and there are people there that are clearly talking to each other, excited that students are there, they're studying, the faculty and staff are there, it's, it's amazing.
[00:14:51] And that does lead to the second sense, which is sound because the buzz of that is really exciting. What's great about this campus is that it's small enough people can reach to each other that they, they know each other and you definitely see and and hear that, especially in class change. And we have a barbecue in the late summer for all the staff and faculty to sort of welcome back and it's a small enough place that people know people from IT, and they know people from HR and they know people from student services, and people from the faculties. And to me that's the excitement about this smaller campus So that got me through two.
[00:15:31] So it's hearing, sight, taste, that, that feels like it's a Tim Hortons. so nice to have a coffee in the, and in that morning. That, seems like a good one.
[00:15:41] The sense of of touch. Is, that's probably one of the hardest, right? Because we live in this sort of cerebral world and, and so actually is going to be more connected to the weather and getting out into the snow or, or whatever that will look like. Now, one of my favorite parts of the year is always convocation. And that's partly about what I just described that everybody gets together, everybody pulls together, people want to volunteer. The students are excited. So maybe, you know, the touch of the academic gowns is a good one That's four senses. What's the fifth sense? Time? Time is is what roots us all. I do want to tell your funny story about convocation. We had an a make-up convocation because we hadn't been able to have convocation during COVID. And the gowns didn't arrive. And so suddenly there we are with everybody, with their parents and, and what, what are we gonna do?
[00:16:38] And so the ceremonies people found 20 black gowns that just were around. No hoods, no, no mortar boards. And what we did is that the first 20 people would wear these, they'd go across the stage, they'd leave the stage, and then people would take these off, run it to the other side, put it on the next 20 people.
[00:16:59] And I was watching 'cause I could see the whole thing unfolding from, from the platform. It was the, it was the funniest thing I'd ever see in my life. And I thought, oh, we're gonna get so much pushback that people are gonna be so disappointed. No one, but everyone was, was happy as anything to be doing the convocation.
[00:17:17] And it really did show; it was just a team effort. It was like a machine that was running these things across for 250 people with 20 gangs. So, and we came to the end and convocation has always this tradition of the hat toss at the end of convocation. Well, and so I stand up and I'm like, oh, now it's time for the hat toss. We are like, hmm, but we don't have hats. So, what can we do? And I said, I know we're gonna do jazz hands, so we did.
[00:17:44] Jeevan Sangha: I can just imagine there are so many students like joyfully telling that story because what a time that was. And it just, it's so funny to think that so much time has passed and so little time has passed at the same time.
[00:17:55] Dr. Lesley Cormack: I know, I do think that COVID is this marker, like the before times and the after times. Right. And, and it does, I mean it's, it is a long time ago now. It that, one of the things I really noticed this year is that students seem to be connecting better. They're talking to each other more. They're just out in the community. This is the first-year class that didn't have COVID during high school, and I think that they are in better shape. And I think this reminds us that COVID was very, very hard on young people.
[00:18:31] Jeevan Sangha: Absolutely. That is our last fun question. Is there anything that we missed or anything else you'd like to share about your work? About UBCO?
[00:18:40] Dr. Lesley Cormack: One thing I would say about UBCO is that we have amazing people here. That faculty, the, the staff, the leaders, people all want the best for this campus and the best for UBC. and it's really the best for students. And because we're smaller, we can pull together and do things that would not be possible at a big campus.
[00:19:09] And we really saw that this, this year when international students who are applying were struggling to complete their application processes, to complete their processes to get study permits, and we pulled together people from different parts of campus. All then were repurposed, phoned each of those students, sometimes multiple times so that they could walk them through processes. And it was successful. It meant that students got their materials, they were able to come. And I am so proud of the staff who just said, this is what we need to do. We need to find a solution. And they did. and that's UBCO.
[00:19:53] Jeevan Sangha: I think that is such a lovely note to leave it on. Dr. Cormack, thank you so much for your time.
[00:19:57] It's been so lovely chatting with you today.
[00:20:00] Dr. Lesley Cormack: Well, you're very welcome. It's been lovely talking to you as well.
[00:20:03] Carol Eugene Park: We had a great time interviewing Dr. Cormack. She was a lovely human and not as intimidating as I thought she would be considering she's in such a prestigious high leadership role. Loved learning about her admiration for UBCO, Jeevan, did you have any specific moments that you loved?
[00:20:22] Jeevan Sangha: There was so much to love from that conversation, but I especially enjoyed Dr. Cormack's five senses description. I felt like I visited UBCO once in undergrad 'cause my best friend went there and I really felt like I was back on the campus. It was, it was a fun little journey.
[00:20:38] Carol Eugene Park: I was nervous about that question, but she delivered and I love when guests are able to tap into their creativity. Well, I guess that's it from us. It is really strange how another year has passed. So, I hope everyone has a great holiday.
[00:20:53] Jeevan Sangha: Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to all who celebrate.
[00:20:56] Carol Eugene Park: We hope everyone enjoys their time off, indulge in some of life's pleasures. Moderation is key and survive the annual stressful conversations, about politics with family members you'd rather not see for consecutive days.
[00:21:08] Jeevan Sangha: Nice.
[00:21:10] Carol Eugene Park: And with that. We'll see you in 2026. Thanks everyone for listening. Make sure you catch our next episode by subscribing or following our show on Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcasts. And if you're feeling your feels, please drop us a review. You can find me on Blue Sky at Carol Eugene Park,
[00:21:24] Jeevan Sangha: and me on Twitter at Jeen K Sangha. From Here Forward is an alumni UBC podcast produced by Kylé McPhedran from Podium podcast company.