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When life gets hard, does what we think we believe hold us up, or does it crumble under the weight of doubt? I'm your host, Dr. Lee Warren- I'm a brain surgeon, author, and a person who's seen some stuff and wondered where God is in all this mess. This is The Spiritual Brain Surgery podcast, where we'll take a hard look at what we believe, why we believe it, and the neuroscience behind how our minds and our brains can smash together with faith to help us become healthier, feel better, and be happier so we can find the hope to withstand anything life throws at us. You've got questions, and we're going to do the hard work to find the answers, but you can't change your life until you change your mind, and it's gonna take some spiritual-brain surgery to get it done. So let's get after it.
Good morning,
Speaker 2:my friend. Doctor Lee Warren here with you. I'm excited because we are back for some more spiritual brain surgery, and it is Tuesdays with Tata. Tata and I sat down on the riverbank and had an incredible conversation. We went a little bit deeper on this who is Tata idea just to finish out the episode we started last week to give you some basic understanding of the theological and spiritual beginning point from which we'll have all these conversations as Tuesdays with Tata unfolds as our weekly deep dive into what we believe, why we believe it, and how we can use science and faith smashing together to find the solid ground for our lives when things get hard.
Speaker 2:Tatai and I had an incredible conversation. We went really deep, and it's gonna help you and bless you. Don't forget the prayer wall. Wleemd.com/prayer. If you're not getting the newsletter, please check out doctorleewarren.substack.com to make sure you're connected to this community of people all over the world who are trying to become healthier, feel better, and be happier through the power of cell praying surgery.
Speaker 2:You can't change your life until you change your mind. TalkTalk's gonna help us get it done right now.
Speaker 1:Well, friend, we're back. It's Sunday afternoon on the river out here in Western Nebraska. We're sitting on the banks of the North Platte River in the middle of the twenty twenty four Sandhill Crane migration.
Speaker 3:Yes, they're everywhere. They're everywhere.
Speaker 1:And if I'm here with Dennis McDonald on a Sunday afternoon, it can only mean one thing. It's Tuesdays with Tata. Amen. How you doing, Tata?
Speaker 3:I'm well. How are you?
Speaker 1:I'm doing well. I had a little bit of a flu bug or something this week that cost me a couple of days down, but I'm back on my feet and feeling better. You doing well today?
Speaker 3:Yes, am. That was the only thing that I suffered with during that period of time. Lisa was very ill and then you got it. But I've been suffering with having my head is a little stuffy. Other than that, my voice is a little raspy.
Speaker 3:Yeah. But other than that, I'm okay.
Speaker 1:You always seem to dodge it. The primary care doctor, Doctor. Britton, our friend, shout out to Jeff Britton if you're listening. Said, The only way Tata is going to die is if one of us murders him.
Speaker 3:He's going
Speaker 1:to live forever. You're healthy. That's a blessing.
Speaker 3:Amen. I count myself blessed and highly favored.
Speaker 1:After 86 birthdays, you're still basically healthy, no surgeries, no medicines No. That's amazing. No.
Speaker 3:Two prescriptions and that's it.
Speaker 1:One of them is for mania, right? Putting up with me all these years. Wanted to finish our conversation last week, Tata. We we we did a relaunch of Tuesdays with Tata. That episode was heard all over the world, and people are grateful to have you back.
Speaker 1:And it's such a it's such a treasure, I think, to be able to sit down and do this together and thank you the fact that people listen is an amazing honor so
Speaker 3:I feel honored and blessed and as I said blessed and highly favored.
Speaker 1:We covered some of the background last week on who is Tata. This week I want to go a little deeper on the spiritual side and let's just get the basics out there for people as they are listening as we are going to do this spiritual brain surgery every week. Let's just get some basics and talk about the Lord a little bit. What do you remember growing up as far as your spiritual upbringing and when did you, in your opinion, really decide to become a follower of Christ? What's your faith story, if you will?
Speaker 3:Well, one the things that I count very valuable to me is that we were kept in the Word. But one of the things I discovered about myself was that I knew a lot about God, but I didn't know Him. I didn't know who He was. I mean, I understood who He was, but I did not know Him as my God and Jesus Christ as my Lord and Savior. I accepted Christ when I was probably 13 years old and I remember the day distinctly because I was baptized and the baptistry was not heated and it was October and the water was very chilly, I remember But I can remember attending baptisms where people were baptized in creeks.
Speaker 3:We went every summer to Sabinaw, Texas to camp. The fact is that I went to singing camp there. And that's where I came in contact with Austin Taylor, who wrote a lot of Christian songs.
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 3:think Fanny Crosby wrote more than he did. In fact, she had to write under a pseudo name, I think, a pen name. I don't recall what it was now.
Speaker 1:Because she was a woman?
Speaker 3:Well and she had written so many songs. She was told I think, You've written enough songs.
Speaker 1:You've written enough. Right. Give somebody else a chance. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But understanding took me a long time, and here again, as I think about it and think back about it, I don't know why, because I don't recall not being in church.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:I don't recall not being in quote unquote Sunday school.
Speaker 1:Yeah, don't either.
Speaker 3:But I did not and I learned a lot about that and as I said, I'm so thankful that we were kept in the Word. We had to do memory verses, and I'm like everybody else. We all tried it once, memory verse of Jesus wept.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:But the teacher would not let anybody get away with that. So I don't know, and as I think about some of the trauma and some of the tragedy that we've experienced, I think every one of those events I learned more about God.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:I learned that He was with me whether I wanted Him to be there or not.
Speaker 1:That's right. He was there.
Speaker 3:He was there. And whether I asked Him or not, just like God said about the Gentiles, He said, They will seek me and find me. I'll let them find me.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:I'll make them my people, people that didn't seek me. So, as you think about that, think about I we've worn out the phrase personal savior. Yeah. I've thought about that many times and I don't know what phrase to use to replace it, but you can't get any closer than that if you allow Jesus to be your personal savior.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:But so and then I think that one of those things, in those events, the tragedies that we've experienced in our life that we learned and we experienced something and we began to see things that we had not stopped long enough to see. And maybe that was the whole point. Maybe it didn't stop to say, Who are you? What do you want from me? Talking to God.
Speaker 3:But somewhere in the somewhere in the know, later in my life, and I think probably some of it came when I was in college, that I began to understand clearly because one of the things that I did, I wrote a paper once about every religion that I could research. You know, that I could do it physically. And bear in mind, when I went to school we did not have the internet, we didn't have computers that we had access to.
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 3:So, we didn't have Google. So, we had to do that by hand. And it was laborious, but I did it gladly because I wanted to know. And after a while, I did know. I did know God.
Speaker 3:I didn't know just about Him. I knew who He was and what he was to me.
Speaker 1:Do you feel like that happened sort of in response to life bringing you hardship so you had to rely on him?
Speaker 3:Well, think some of that is applicable, yes. I think some of that came to play and a point was made that one of the things that God Himself said, and I've thought about this so many times and I agree with Him every time I think about it, God Himself said, Apart from me you can do nothing.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:And because he is our creator, where do we think we can talk to him and ask him why when he created us.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:He created everything that we see. We're looking at this river, this beautiful river out here, and He created all of that. And didn't just wave a magic wand. Nope. He spoke it into existence.
Speaker 1:He did. He made it
Speaker 3:without Him and And so, when I say and I think about what the disciples asked Jesus, What is our work? And Jesus said, Just to believe. That's right. And I think John three sixteen that God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten Son. And we know what happened to Jesus when He was sent.
Speaker 3:He died for us. He loved us so much that He died for us that and through His death on the cross, we were redeemed. We were bought back from sin when we had no hope.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:The original sin, and we talk about that a lot, the original sin, the first sin that we know about occurred in the Garden Of Eden when Adam and Eve ate the forbidden fruit because they disobeyed God. And they decided that they knew better. How they did, I don't know that. I can't understand that. How they could look at something and see that it was good and that it was appealing.
Speaker 3:Yeah. When God had created them in His own image, in His own image, He hates sin. Yeah. He doesn't want anybody to be lost.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:So, I think, to answer your question, it probably I know that one thing that it made me do, it made me look at myself in greater detail and when I did, what I did is I looked at myself in terms of what was I about? What was I doing? Where did I think I could go? And I heard some time ago and Max Lucado said it, he first encountered someone that he hadn't seen in a long time and Max asked him, How are you doing? And the guy didn't say a word, he just took a napkin and wrote on it.
Speaker 3:It's not about me and it's not about now.
Speaker 1:Wow.
Speaker 3:How accurate can that be? And that's exactly right. It's not about me and it's not about now.
Speaker 1:That's right. Wow. You know, this is you've said it twice today that that there was a point in time when you realized that you knew about God, but you didn't know God. Yeah. And there's we talked about it on the main podcast recently.
Speaker 1:I don't think we've talked about it on here on spiritual brain surgery, but the Germans have two different words, three actually, at least three, but two different words that relate to different ways of knowing things. And there's a word wissen, w I s s e n. And it's a it's a left brain kind of knowing. And it's this set of facts, this set of data that you have. Like, I know I can pick you out of a lineup.
Speaker 1:I know what you look like. I know how tall you are. I know how you walk. I know the sound of your voice. These are facts that I know about Right.
Speaker 1:Dennis McDonnell. And then and we all have this this idea, this left brain idea that we know God because we know that Jesus was the son of God, and he was resurrected on the third day and we know that he created the world and we know all this stuff. Right. But that's not the same as knowing somebody. That's right.
Speaker 1:And the other word is this this kennen, k e n n e n. Kennen is this other German word and it means to experience something to the level that you understand it. Right. That you know it.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:You know all about it and in relation to a person like there's a difference between knowing all the facts that the biographical facts about Dennis McDonnell and knowing you. Right. Like I know who you are and I know what you are and I know your character and I know your the content of your heart and and when we relate to God that's that's something that we need to make a decision about. Like like friend that that's listening, like, if your life if your relationship with God is full of facts and data and memorized scripture, that may not serve you very well when you encounter that trauma or tragedy or massive thing. That set of facts that you have as your as your God may not be what you need.
Speaker 1:Like what you really need is to And
Speaker 3:when we approach those, when we when we face those things, maybe we need to be like a blank slate. Just waiting for it to be imprinted on us.
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 3:right. And then we know, then we understand and know and we own them.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:And boil it down to its essence, it's a fair question, but who are we to even ask it?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:That's right. And the example that we have is Paul mentioned that the potter has a right to do whatever he wants to do with the clay.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:He makes an honorable vessel or he makes a vessel to be used for dishonor.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right. Yeah. So that the scripture in Corinthians, I can't think of where it is right now. I'll put it in the show notes that God provides the seed for the sower and the bread for eating.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:Like like every bit of it, everything we have comes from him. Our our voices and our this computer that we're looking that recording this this audio on, it's all from him. Like, we have this idea that we're doing all these things for him. Okay. Paul says very clearly, he gives us He works in us to do good things that He wants us to do.
Speaker 1:That's correct. He's doing the work.
Speaker 3:That's right. And we don't understand that and for me that's part of the mystery. Far be it from me to even try to noodle that out. Yeah. I won't because we're talking about my soul and we're talking about eternity.
Speaker 3:And in eternity there's only two places.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:There's only two addresses and I want the first one. I want heaven.
Speaker 1:I don't want hell. Okay. Well, let's go there for a second then, Tata. So there's a shockingly high percentage of people that would say that they're bible believing Christians who don't believe that there's a literal heaven and a literal hell. That that God is going that people will actually go to hell and be punished for eternity.
Speaker 1:So, let's get on record here. What's the truth about that? Is there really a place called hell? Is that literal or is that some metaphor?
Speaker 3:Well, first of all, I would challenge that person who says that they believe the Bible. That means they don't believe the Bible. That's right. Why?
Speaker 1:Because the Bible says there's
Speaker 3:a That's right. And Jesus Himself said in John, I think it's John 14, that I am the way, the truth and the light and no one comes to the
Speaker 1:Father except through Me. That's right. Not a way or an a truth. That's right. The way.
Speaker 1:That's right. And the truth.
Speaker 3:And Jesus talked about both of those places as well. He did. So, they exist. Yeah. What they look like, I can't even tell you.
Speaker 3:I don't that's one thing that I don't dwell on. What's it going to be like there?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:I just want to get there.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:I've often said, just Lord, let me in the city limits. I'll sweep the streets. Yeah, just let me in. Just let me in. That's right.
Speaker 1:I think that's important to say because if you pay attention to secular culture, you can start absorbing these ideas that, you know, that everybody's basically good and and we should all just love each other. And those are good ideas, but but the truth is the biblical worldview, we're not basically good. We're fallen. We we've all we all sin, and we fall short of the glory of God, and we desperately need a savior.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:What's gonna make us happy is not pursuing our our hearts desires and trying to follow my truth and your truth, and you do you and me do me. That doesn't make people happy. And you can look at the you can look at the culture and see the fruit of that is that people are progressively more miserable.
Speaker 3:Well, deeper than that. If people say, I want to do it my way, what does that say? That they're What does it really say? They refuse to accept anything other than themselves.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:So what are they? Self centered?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Rebellious? Stiff necked? Yeah. And that's what the Lord said about the Israelites.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:He knew that they were rebellious, but He loved them anyway.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:And so that's an example for us. So don't we love God and don't we love ourselves? And what does it say about loving yourself if you say, I'm just going do it my way?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:There was a song, I did it my way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Frank Sinatra. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, what does that mean? You know, things sound good and they sound like something you want to own. Yeah. But what did it do? What difference did it
Speaker 1:make? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Where are you? See, for me, that's the whole issue. For me, people don't ask that question. They're like sponges. They just absorb it.
Speaker 3:Oh, that sounds good. I'll try it. Yeah. What does that say? That says they have nothing to hold onto.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:They have no anchor. Yep. They have no rock.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:But that's where God is, and that's that's what he said he was.
Speaker 1:That's right. And that's what he is. Tatai just held up the word when he said that. He said that's where God is. And and so, okay, let's and let's talk about the word for a second.
Speaker 1:Where did you come in your life to the idea that the Word of God was something you could or wanted to build your life around?
Speaker 3:Well, I've thought about that as well and to fix it in time I can't. I know that there was a lot of things in my life that I went through mechanically. By that I mean I went by the numbers. Left foot, right foot. But when you finally decide, when you finally decide and you finally understand that you can't do it yourself, I can't do it my way.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:So, there's nothing left. And that's been said before. No one really knows that they need Jesus until there's no place left to go. That's right. And for me, that's a sad commentary, but at the same time, there's some beauty in that as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Because you come to a point where you realize, I can't do it myself.
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 3:right. Does that mean you give up? No. That means you come to truth. Yeah.
Speaker 3:You come to the reality of what really exists what really Sure. And you finally say, Okay, God, I can't do it. God, help me. And then, that's when we start asking Him for help.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:I don't know, excuse me, I don't know where it was. I can remember after Rebecca died and I got back to Fort Benning and I don't know, was a wee hour, early hours of the morning and I remember this man's name came and got me out of the shower. His name is Mac Williams. He's since he's since passed away. And he was one of the guys that I think I told you about before that he and another guy parachuted into Laos and mapped a terrain.
Speaker 1:They're in Vietnam.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And for six months they lived on the ground and then were picked up by submarines. Wow. And he found me and there was nothing left of me. I didn't have anything to hold on to.
Speaker 1:Rebecca's Tata's first child who died while she was still in the hospital after being born. And
Speaker 3:that was hard, but one of the things that I've known all my life is that life is hard. Yeah. And just and whatever you get is a gift and you can't you can say, Once upon a time I did, I said it. That through with these hands I did it. But that's not true.
Speaker 3:After you come to that realization that of what God said, when He said, Apart from Me, you can do nothing. That's right. That leaves you hanging, doesn't it?
Speaker 1:It does.
Speaker 3:But that He leaves you hanging for a purpose. Everything that happens to us has a purpose. It does. And either we fall face down and give up, or we stand up and try to
Speaker 1:press on. That's right.
Speaker 3:And the question is how do we live in this world? We have to be thankful for everything. I'm thankful that I get to see the blue sky. Yeah. I'm thankful I saw the sunrise this morning.
Speaker 3:And every morning when I see a sunrise I said, Thank you God. Yeah. Thank you God for letting me see that.
Speaker 1:Were, I guess it was three nights ago we were sitting here maybe thirty minutes before sundown there were eight bald eagles in a tree down. Were all taking turns looking at them through the spotting scope and we had cranes and geese and owls and hawks and what red winged blackbirds and starlings and robins and just species after species and then we saw those eagles and we were just all like almost driven to a worship place like just letting like God letting us see all this beauty that He's made. And it kind of brings you to this place where you you feel really small in the grand scheme of all the things that He's done, full moon. And and I I guess I say that just to say like when we when we talk about the word of God, like, that you and I both have we've talked about this a lot before. Something happens in your life where you you're taught to read it, and you memorize it, and you it goes back to this knowing thing that we talked about a minute ago.
Speaker 1:And then something happens in your life and you realize if you didn't have the Word, you'd really be in trouble.
Speaker 3:That's right. You wouldn't have anything to hold on to.
Speaker 1:Like somehow those words are more than just words on a page, they're alive.
Speaker 3:That's right. And the key to all of that is continue to look inside. Look at yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And examine yourself. Because the book reads you too. That's right. That's right.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:That's right. And when we pray, that's us talking to God. When we read His Word, that's us listening to Him.
Speaker 1:Him talking back to us. That's right. That's right. Okay. So here's a question, Tata.
Speaker 1:You're stranded on a deserted island and you can have one Bible translation and one other book. That's all you're allowed to bring. What you got? Well,
Speaker 3:I don't like closed end questions.
Speaker 1:Know, because you gotta choose. The ship has sunk, your library's gone, you have one book in your hand.
Speaker 3:Well, right now I'm reading the ESV, English Standard I had never read it. I've read several translations of the Bible. I had, for the years I used the NIV, the New English, the translated New International Version. Yeah, New International Version. Until and the last one that I had was the last version I had was the one that Harvey ate.
Speaker 1:Harvey ate, yeah. Harvey ate taught us Bible up to Second Samuel.
Speaker 3:And I'd carried that Bible for fifteen years. It felt like part of me was missing, you know. I know. But then I thought, well, Harvey, you've got some of the Old Testament, now we need to give you some of the New Testament.
Speaker 1:It needs to be baptized, that's right.
Speaker 3:But to answer your question, I think I would have the NIV and one other book, I don't know, I've read so many books, there's nothing that I treasure. I've read everything that Agatha Christie wrote, but because one of the things that I like doing is reading something that causes me to think. Right. And I've read you've given me several books that I've read and I guess the only other book that I would want would be a book on prayer. And you and I have talked about this before, but I had a book of the common prayer book, and I don't know what happened to it, but I don't know if I think that would be one of the books that I would like to have.
Speaker 1:The Book of Common Prayer? Yeah. Yeah, that would be a good choice.
Speaker 3:And because I would not I can't think of anything else that I would want to have. As far as I'm concerned, two plus two is four. Yeah. I mean that's all there is to it, and x plus y is z. Yeah, see
Speaker 1:you got the word, you have everything.
Speaker 3:That's right. But if you don't have what God said to you, you're missing so much.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:There's a hole that can't be filled.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:And so, and I understand. We see the prayer requests on the prayer wall and we do see praise reports also. But and I understand that life is hard. And I understand that there are times when there are no answers, and most of the time we don't even know the question.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Much less what could be the answer. But, when we get down to it and we're down on our face and we say, Why? What difference does it make?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:It's not why did this happen? It happened. The other part of that conversation we had before about after James was killed, Patty dug me out of a closet and the only thing I can remember was screaming, it's all my fault. Then Patty said to me, no, you can't claim that. It's my fault.
Speaker 3:And I said, No, it's not anybody's fault. It happened. It happened.
Speaker 1:Yeah, he was hit by a vehicle. It couldn't have been anybody's fault other than the driver, I guess. Yeah. That's hard. Like, we we have these moments in our lives.
Speaker 1:Obviously, for us, it's it's losing Mitch. But before that, it was, you know, probably some of the things that I saw in Iraq that that sort of changed the the way that you feel about your own life. Like
Speaker 3:Yes.
Speaker 1:The the perception that you have of what your life's about or or where you're going in your life. And I think that's one of the reasons people get stuck, Tata, is that something desperately wrong happens that offends our not only upends our thought about where our life was going, but it upends our sense of justice and right and wrong and God's character and all these things. If we're not careful, we find ourselves not knowing what we believe or if we can believe anything anymore. And so I think that that is one of the reasons that being grounded, we talk about this prehab idea, is one of the reasons that having a heart full of God's promises and God's words and information and understanding that that right brain knowledge of who He is is so important because when we hit those patches in times in our lives, we don't fall to nothing. We fall to that place that we prepared in our heart.
Speaker 1:That's right. That first aid kit to the solid ground that we can land on. And you had Patty and she dug you out of that closet, I had you and Patty and Lisa and my mom and dad and our whole family when Mitch died. But at the end of all that, other people can't really be the answer for
Speaker 3:No, because they can't feel it like you do.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Because, and that's where we talk about those things that become very personal to us. And you feel all kinds of sensations. Of course, the first thing you feel is a sense of loss, but then you start questioning yourself, well what did I do wrong? And as we look back we look back over our lives and we see things that we see things more clearly now than we did when we were in the midst of it. But if we don't have something to hang on to when we're in the midst of it, when we're in the fray of the battle.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Then we don't have any hope.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Because the hope comes from being able to stop yourself and say, Why? What?
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:What's happening to me?
Speaker 1:That's
Speaker 3:right. What am I letting happen to me? Yep. Then you own it and you say, No more.
Speaker 1:That's right. No more. That's what we call self brain surgery. This idea of exercising the privilege that God gave us. The only thing, the only creature He created that has this selective attention ability where we can say, I'm not gonna go down that path of thought.
Speaker 3:That's right. That's right. I'm gonna
Speaker 1:let God's promises speak into this moment. I'm gonna experience him. And like you said, we have to look for him in those moments and expect him to be there. And so when it's hard, we we we observe a universe in which God will be there to keep His promises and then we'll find Him there.
Speaker 3:Because the Apostle Paul, and he said this, I wish, it's in Romans, I know that, but God's gifts and His promises are irrevocable.
Speaker 1:That's right. Irrevocable. That's in Hebrews.
Speaker 3:He can't go back on His word. Well, He can't take it back. Now what does that look like? I don't know. All I know is He can't.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's Hebrews six seventeen. When God desired to show more convincingly to the heirs of the promise the unchangeable character of His purpose, He guaranteed it with an oath. His gifts and His promises are irrevocable.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:He can't change His mind. That's right. He's not going to take His mind. He's not going to give it to you and then take it back.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:That's right. Right.
Speaker 3:And He's not going to punish you now.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:But he might but he might let you punish yourself later.
Speaker 1:That's right. That's right.
Speaker 3:Because someone said, why do why does a good God send good people to hell? God doesn't send anybody to hell.
Speaker 1:That's right. He doesn't.
Speaker 3:We we we decide we're gonna go there.
Speaker 1:God that's the that's the best way to put it is God gives us free will and he loves you enough to not make you spend eternity with him if you don't want to.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:And that's really the definition of hell, is that this separation from God forever is the place of uttermost punishment and pain, is not getting to be where we are created to be.
Speaker 3:That's right.
Speaker 1:But He's not going to make you be with Him if you don't want to. He doesn't send you there against His will. His will is for you to be with That's right. I found this Isaiah 30 this morning. There's this passage that says that the Lord longs to be gracious to you.
Speaker 1:He rises to show you compassion. He is just that He will work out His judgment and happy are those whose hope is in Him. I mean, who wait on Him. And what I noticed for the first time is the word when it says the Lord longs to be gracious to you, that word longs. And then the back end when it says happy or blessed are those who wait on Him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's the same word in the Hebrew. And basically what he's saying is this Hebrew word yakal or different forms of it. And it is a mental picture that could be translated as hope. And it is this picture of holding on tightly to a rope that is not going to let you go.
Speaker 1:And the word, when God says it, he longs to be gracious to you. He's and what he's saying there is he really, really hopes that we'll give him an opportunity to be
Speaker 3:gracious. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:I never saw that before today. Like like, God's holding on to this hope that you will let him help you. And it even says he'll he'll rise to show you compassion. Like, imagine that. If you go to the king in Buckingham Palace right now, King Charles, you're gonna have to bow down and get on your knee.
Speaker 1:That's right. You want a favor from him? He's not getting up out of throne to do something for you. You're going have to kneel, but bow down before Him. Our guide says, I will get up out of my chair to come help you, Dennis.
Speaker 1:I'll come help you. And then He uses that word, longs, you're called, I'm going to hold on to this hope that you will let me help you. How precious is that?
Speaker 3:Oh, to me that's stunning because one of the things that we talk about it so much, but we really don't understand that God created us in His image.
Speaker 1:That's right. So we're just like Him.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Now does that mean we look like Him? I don't know.
Speaker 1:No. Yeah. I agree. Well, there's there's immense value in getting to know someone on a deeper level. So thank you for letting us just get to know you.
Speaker 1:We're gonna come back here every every week and do Tuesdays with Tatay as as often as the Lord will let us. I wanted to just get a couple of episodes here where we cover a lot of ground and just let people kind of get a feel for who you are again since it's been a little bit and we'll get back to the topical studies and the ideal studies next week. Do you already know what we're going to talk about next week?
Speaker 3:Probably. I'm thinking about part two of Jonah.
Speaker 1:Jonah, yeah we got get back to Jonah. I may replay the first one since it was before we relaunched this and then we will do a new one. So that will be good. We will hit a one two punch with Jonah. There is so much there.
Speaker 1:It is not just about the fish.
Speaker 3:No, no, not.
Speaker 1:It is not just about the big fish. No. That is good Tatai. Well this has been immensely enjoyable for me. I know it going to help people and I just greatly appreciate you being willing to take the time to sit down with us and dive into the Word and look at life and have these conversations.
Speaker 1:It's valuable.
Speaker 3:Thank you.
Speaker 1:And so what's one piece of advice that you could tell somebody today that they need to change their mind about and that they need to start today? What's the one parting shot from time Well,
Speaker 3:one thing that I hope and pray is that they've accepted Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:Accepted Him. And I don't know where it came to me. Could probably say that the Holy Spirit provoked me to change that. I used to say in my prayers that when I prayed for people that I knew or thought or had been told did not know Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. That's what I prayed.
Speaker 3:They did not know Him. But my belief is we have to accept Him.
Speaker 1:That's right.
Speaker 3:He is the Son of God. He died for us and God raised Him from the dead. Yeah. And so if all we have is hope and a resurrection, that's a lot.
Speaker 1:That's everything. That's right. There's hope for us too. Amen. That's right.
Speaker 1:There's no better time if you're going to accept Him today. It's time to start today, isn't it, Tatai?
Speaker 3:It is. Start today.
Speaker 1:Amen. Thanks, Tatai. Love you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I love you too.
Speaker 1:Alright, friend. We'll see you next week on Tuesdays with Tatai. It's going to be great. We're going to go deep. We're not going to stay superficial when Tatai and I get after it.
Speaker 1:Go for it, don't we Tatai?
Speaker 3:Amen. Yes, we do. We have to.
Speaker 1:Alright friend. Don't forget to start today. We'll see you next week. Hey, thanks for listening. The Doctor.
Speaker 1:Lee Warren podcast is brought to you by my brand new book, Hope Is The First Dose. It's a treatment plan for recovering from trauma, tragedy, and other massive things. It's available everywhere books are sold, and I narrated the audiobooks. Hey, the theme music for the show is Get Up by my friend, Tommy Walker, available for free at TommyWalkerministries.org. They are supplying worship resources for worshipers all over the world to worship the most high God.
Speaker 1:And if you're interested in learning more, check out TommyWalkerministries.org. If you need prayer, go to the prayer wall at wlewarnmd.com/prayer. W lee warren m d Com / prayer, and go to my website and sign up for the newsletter, self brain surgery every Sunday since 02/2014, helping people in all 50 states and 60 plus countries around the world. I'm doctor Lee Warren, and I'll talk to you soon. Remember, friend, you can't change your life until you change your mind.
Speaker 1:And the good news is you can start today.