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So you want to RevOps.
Great, but where do you start? What kinds of talent should you look for? And who should they report to?
In this episode, Raul and Toni the different archetypes of RevOps backgrounds—whether from consulting, finance, or commercial roles—and where to best place these individuals within your organization. They also share anecdotes about the challenges and strategies for growing RevOps talent internally and what to look for when hiring from outside.
Great, but where do you start? What kinds of talent should you look for? And who should they report to?
In this episode, Raul and Toni the different archetypes of RevOps backgrounds—whether from consulting, finance, or commercial roles—and where to best place these individuals within your organization. They also share anecdotes about the challenges and strategies for growing RevOps talent internally and what to look for when hiring from outside.
Creators & Guests
What is Revenue Brothers?
What happens when a VC and a CEO come together?
– They nerd out about all things revenue. And they don’t always agree.
Raul Porojan of Project A Ventures and Toni Hohlbein of Growblocks are the Super Revenue Brothers. In every episode they dissect and debate current issues in B2B SaaS, and offer solutions on how to solve them
No matter if you’re an early-stage startup or a scaling unicorn – you’ll always learn something new.
Introduction
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[00:00:00]
Toni: When I was CRO, and some more junior RevOps person was rolling something out.
Toni: I always had those cringe moments where the person said something and I was like, that's so completely off base. It just reveals how little understanding they have about the day to day of a salesperson. And sometimes, Even some contempt was shining through like, yeah, you know, you're just the salespeople
Vacation stories and missing episodes
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Raul: it's blazing hot out there. Seasonality is finally over us. And, uh, depending on where you are, it's either really hot or just hot. I think it was the same case for you, Toni. You were on vacation and I thought like a very interesting story with, with your kids. Right.
Toni: Yeah, I mean, so the thing is, that's also why, we missed the beat here in pushing some episodes out and it's my fault. We actually had something scheduled for the Thursday or Friday just before me going out on vacation. But as it then happens,
Raul: Basically, whenever there's an episode missing, you can assume it's Toni's fault.
Toni: It's my fault. It's my fault. And, obviously, you know, that Thursday [00:01:00] and Friday, just before vacation, everything blew up. and, we had to cancel and move and so forth. And then I was like very optimistic. Hey, let's just, let's just do it when I'm on vacation. And you know what happened? Nothing happened.
Toni: I was really great at disconnecting. I usually have trouble with that, but this time it went well. And it had to do probably also with, struggling connectivity as we did a Sweden road trip. Yeah, so we are here in Denmark. We did something super exotic. We went to Sweden and And the reason why we did that and we actually visited a good friend, but also You know former boss of mine He and his family, they have a summer house.
Toni: Summer house is a big thing here in the Nordics. You know, everyone has kind of a summer house. They have a summer house on Gotland. So where is Gotland? What is Gotland? It's the island in the Baltic Sea and next to Sweden. Yeah. It's really nice. It's a really nice place, but from Copenhagen to Visby, which is basically kind of the city [00:02:00] there, it takes like seven hours by car, which is for everyone, you know, listening to like, yeah, you can, you can pull this off.
Toni: Yeah, you can, but not with like two small kids. So what we basically did. Was on either leg of the journey. So, you know going there and coming back we rented Another summer house somewhere in Sweden. So we basically kind of ended up doing a little bit of a mini road trip You know first three hour trip to the first summer house spent like two three four days there And then two, three hours to the Gotland summer house, I spent some time there with, my friend and then colleague and so forth.
Toni: And then on the way back had another one, right? And it was like, it's actually pretty nice. , we had one at the lake, every, there's thousands of lakes and gazillions of mosquitoes in Sweden this time of year. And then another one was at the sea. And, you know, my wife and kids spent like.
Toni: Lots of time going to the beach and doing all that stuff. So that was kind of our very boring, like not, Oh, you weren't in the [00:03:00] Maldives. you know, this, this year it's like, no, it's like very, very, boring stunner. Let's go over the bridge and then explore Sweden just a little bit.
Raul: That's how you know you've made it, if your former boss invites you to their summer house. How varied is the landscape actually? I think a lot of people have one or two pictures in mind for Norway and one or two pictures in mind for Denmark if you do all these long drives, I know they're quite long countries from North to South but do you actually get to see a lot of different landscapes or is it mostly just Sweden?
Toni: Well, it's so for people to kind of, how big is Sweden actually, which is kind of unclear for people, So if you take the most southwestern tip of Sweden, and then you take the whole Sweden and turn it around. you actually land in Barcelona. So this is how big Sweden actually is. Right. and the countryside in the beginning, obviously very Danish, like flatlands and so forth. But as you go further up, you have tons of lakes. more hilly country, and then really nice [00:04:00] forests, right?
Toni: And if you then go even further up to Sweden, and many people don't know this, the archipelago around Stockholm, it's actually the biggest on the planet. It's the biggest archipelago on the planet. It's in Stockholm or around Stockholm, meaning you have, tons of small islands, and kind of small islets where it's like one house is on it and you can only go there with a boat.
Toni: And it's pretty amazing. the thing is that, it's also very rocky. So the reason why you have all of those little islets, it's not that there's like a little, And then there's like a big hump of sand there that kind of survived all these. And it was a rock. It's a boulder that basically sits in the water and it's big enough for land to form.
Toni: so you have those really dramatic shots of water and then bare rock and then forest on top of it. And then there's like one of those, um, Red summer houses, you can imagine how this exactly works. So it's like, I would say Sweden has a pretty nice countryside actually, as you kind of progress through it.
Toni: I can only imagine, uh, you know, recommend checking out for [00:05:00] folks, honestly. And, I mean, you see a lot of Germans. I, I, I met at least, you know, five Germans, um, you know, doing vacation, vacationing in Sweden. uh, with the auto camper or Airbnb or whatever they're doing and just exploring that place.
Toni: And it's totally worth
Raul: you really sold it right there.
Toni: There you go.
RevOps talent: Who to hire and why
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Raul: I know, like, just to go into the topic, you were also there with two small people, future RevOps Hall of Famers,
Toni: Yes.
Raul: coming from your family, your kids, and this goes to our topic today, like, how do you actually, if you're not the Hohlbeins, and just produce them naturally, Like, how do you find and maybe hire good Revops people?
Raul: And we're not going to go into like all the details of like, what is Revops and all that. Cause I think there's the basics are laid out, but like, okay, now you want to do it. How do you go about it? And who are those people? How do you find them?
Toni: So let's start with the who, and their backgrounds and let's explore this a little bit. And I think then let's go into where in the organization, you know, [00:06:00] where, and probably a little bit when, let's talk about these kinds of setups. what I have seen a lot I've seen a lot of RevOps folks.
Toni: let's say it like this. the backgrounds usually, I would say in Europe, it's one way in the US, it's another way. I actually am starting to prefer the way that it's done in the US. Let me explain. most backgrounds in Europe actually are coming from, consulting profiles or finance profiles.
Toni: those folks go into operations. It's like finance, like I know how to, I don't want to, you know, push round numbers for other people. I don't want to do the bean counting. I want to be a bit more proactive, but I also don't want to call people. So let me apply my analytical skills, my system thinking skills and go into sales, ops, revenue, operations, and so forth.
Toni: Similar idea with consulting, I would say, right? there's a large part of revenue operations that's transformational, that's project based and that's where those consultant profiles just come in like [00:07:00] amazingly well, right? super organized project plan, et cetera.
Toni: those are profiles that I see a lot. what I sometimes see lacking with them is not caring enough about revenue. They're commercially oriented. they understand commercials, they understand the funnel and all of that stuff, but it's a little bit like, yes, it's out of my hands, like hitting the target on us out of my hands and, you know, someone else's response when the sales team is responsible and et cetera, versus when you have the profiles that I see usually in the U S which is, you know, I was an SDR that then jumped onto the sales operations side.
Toni: I was an AE and I jumped into kind of revenue operations. I was like a campaign manager. And then I did, marketing operations and now I want to do revenue operations, what those profiles, but they're different is. And this is a very American military term, but they're seeing themselves as quote unquote, force multipliers.
Toni: They're seeing [00:08:00] themselves as like, okay, my job here is to get more out of everyone around me. or more out of the team that I'm kind of working with, right? How can I do this from a Revos perspective? Well, I can try and find ways so they can get their job done faster. So maybe they can do more, jobs at the same time, running more opportunities, for example, like, Hey, this tool that we want to roll out.
Toni: How's that really actually going to help us? Where in the funnel is that going to tweak something? And those profiles, I feel, are more, more in the, kind of in the U. S. more popular, but could totally also be a thing in Europe to kind of go from a frontline role into an operations role, and then having just a better understanding of Where and how you connect and how you move the needle there, right?
Toni: So I would say You know commercial background versus non commercial background kind of those are the the usually the biggest splits but those also gives you some ideas of where to find that talent, right? Roll from your perspective. Do [00:09:00] you have you seen something similar? Do you have similar observations?
Toni: So what do you think where good RevOps folks coming from?
Raul: So I think I would add one more category, but I agree with the first two. So one is like commercial background, two is whatever, consulting, some kind of maybe finance. I would put those into the same as well. And then the third one is kind of wild cards and I'll get to those in a second, but first about the first two, I think this is really the crux of the problem because, what you have is you have the material out there, which is.
Raul: Typically falls into these two categories for, for the people that you can find. But what you would like is someone to be both. And so you're almost always going to have the problem of trying to find someone who's either, I don't know, a former salesperson who's analytical or an analytical person who's sales driven, but almost always they're only.
Raul: The first one really, and then the second one, not enough. So the analytical person will always come with an analytical mindset, [00:10:00] you know, to the person with a hammer, everything is a nail, and then they will approach it that way. And, but they will not be sales driven enough and then vice versa with the sales driven person.
Raul: So, I'm saying that there are solutions for that too, by the way, but this is kind of the base problem that we're dealing with here. And I think the,
Toni: And I think
The Importance of Sales Experience in RevOps
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Raul: There needs to be sort of a base level for both and for a RevOps person to be able to do their job well,
Toni: So having done some
Raul: I think you cannot be a good RevOps person, without having done
Toni: having done considerable
Raul: considerable amounts. and that's, it doesn't have to be years. It doesn't have to be six months, maybe a little bit less, but without having been in the field yourself in sales and, or marketing on best or both in both cases, every good RevOps person I've ever seen has done so.
Toni: ever seen
Raul: Has had to produce leads somehow out of thin air, has had to come up with kind of a landing page or whatever at once. the first one is what typical people typically come up with quite well, which is all because then they know what problems to solve and how to solve them better.
Raul: And yeah. Yes, I do think people still underrate like [00:11:00] how much of a problem this is because like actually having done that and Feeling the despair and feeling the successes and and all that is is quite different from kind of like just analyzing it But that's I think most people understand that the second part is selling it then And I think this is where a lot of, especially junior Revo's people, if you're listening in, this is probably where you're going to have challenges in your companies, is selling your solutions and selling your approaches, either before you've built them or after, it doesn't matter.
Raul: Like if you, if you're trying to build a new process and get buy in for it, or if you're going to, if you already built it and try to teach that to the sales team and now get them to actually do it, right? Having someone who knows what they're talking about, has actually felt what the salespeople have felt, has tried to do the same thing that the marketing person has tried to do, has failed and, and done these things and felt the despair, and is able to communicate that to the salespeople.
Raul: That is one of the biggest correlators of actually implementing what you're building there as well. when I was doing RevOps the first time around, about 10 years ago, this actually [00:12:00] was something that the person who co managed me designed this way. So. I was forced to do sales and I gladly did it.
Raul: But one of the reasons was that he knew I was not going to get buying from the salespeople. And I was not going to get any credibility from the marketing people if I hadn't failed and succeeded in various things that I had to do there. So, so I think this is something people underrate.
Toni: good point. I think, that's a really good point. I think also, whenever I So, when I was CRO and some more junior RevOps person was rolling something out. and maybe I was in the room for whatever reason.
Toni: I always had those cringe moments where the person said something and I was like, that's so completely off base. Like this is, this is, you know, it's not wrong, but it just reveals how little understanding they have about the day to day of a salesperson. And sometimes, Even some contempt was shining through like, yeah, you know, you're just the salespeople like not necessarily like that on the nose But there was a little bit of that coming through and I [00:13:00] think those are attitudes.
Toni: Those are things That manifest themselves in the spectator, persona more than in the, well, I've actually been on the field, I have played myself, and now I'm kind of, you know, taking a slightly different role, right? I can totally second what you said there. My own RevOps journey, though, was I would say I was actually coming from the consulting finance background.
Toni: so I didn't do sales myself before then. I've done sales since, which is kind of oddly the other way around. But one of the biggest pieces for me was, and maybe this wasn't, you know, I did this accidentally or something like this, was actually getting extremely close and getting lots of buy in and respect from, the sales folks.
Toni: Like being close with the sales folks was extremely important, to get anything done, right? And it's, I think it's fairly easy to get the respect in the marketing team because to a degree, everyone is also a little bit theoretical there, right? they don't have to [00:14:00] talk to. Actual prospects, So I think if you can align yourself with the sales reps, if you are able to get the respect from the sales reps, I think then you can overcome some of those Gaps you might have in your experience if you haven't had a commercial background,
Toni: So I would say if you want to go for more the analytical skill set you would need to make sure that that person Really integrates well or kind of really gets close to the sales team because otherwise to your point They will struggle rolling anything out and then it becomes a pretty useless resource actually
Raul: And, you know, funnily enough, so if you look at these two problems and very, very simplistic, right. let's say that the analytical person has a much easier time coming up with the right approach. but rolling it out as difficult, getting the buy in from the team because they don't have the credibility.
Raul: let's say on the other hand, the salesy person who's a little bit analytical has an easier time selling it, but has a harder time coming up with the right solution. Who would you rather have? In this construct, I would rather actually have the salesy [00:15:00] person who's at least able to roll out a 20 percent improvement rather than an analytical person who's not able to roll out a 50 percent improvement.
Raul: at least that could happen. I'm not like, this is a very right in a dry situation, but I think this is the power of these things. And more to the point. So I do remember a very distinct example. Like makes it a hundred percent clear to anyone who knows and who doesn't know, there might be surprised by this.
Raul: And this is what I'm talking about. So I was talking to a quite younger RevOps person who was studying one of the top German business schools and had went out and actually gone the consulting and finance and all that route and then went into RevOps and they were like head of RevOps and they were coming up with new ways to do things.
Raul: And one of the things that they were doing in a quite mature sales organization already is coming up with compensation plans. the. Way that they were building the compensation plan was super arduous and they were working at it for like two, three months, whatever. Then they were showing it to me.
Toni: in time. it's that the,
Raul: it took me about five minutes to say this is never going to work, actually, it's never going to incentivize the behavior, going to [00:16:00] incentivize. Because what it did, and I'm not going to go into technicalities here, he did not, for example, know that what's, What his implementation would have done would have been to incentivize people to, sandbag, contracts, and to put them into specific timeframe.
Raul: So he was not, he was not in the know. And if you know what that is, basically a sandbag is a salesperson timing contracts the right way to achieve certain peaks, within the bonus. So for example, let's say I have a monthly quota to achieve like. 20 contracts or 10 or whatever, and then I have reached my 10.
Raul: And after that, I don't have a lot of incentive to keep going. Well, then after 10, 11, 12, and 13, I will just enter the next month, especially if it's around, July 28 or 25 or whatever. This is a very common practice. If your compensation is not geared towards that, doesn't have that in mind, you might run into trouble.
Toni: Yeah.
Raul: He didn't know that. His, compensation plan was highly dependent on the, when people were entering and doing things, but he was not keeping that into account. Completely blew his mind when I told him that, and he had to go back and rework that, right? Does not take a genius to come up with [00:17:00] that, but the fact alone that he did not know that people would do that, right?
Raul: It's a behavioral thing, it's a psychology thing. Like, I always say this, I highly appreciate smart people and intelligent people, and I hired a lot of smart, intelligent people, but smartness and intelligence does not, Meaning that you'll be able to know that out of the get go.
Toni: Americans would say book smart and street smart, you know, and the street smart part was kind of missing there. Right. so I think all of those are kind of super valid points.
Who should RevOps report to?
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Toni: the next question then some people usually have is, well, where in the organization should they sit?
Toni: Right. Kind of under which umbrella or to whom should they be reporting? And before I give my. spiel here because I've done this so many times. Raul, what's your thinking? where should revenue operations report to?
Raul: Yeah. So I know that you will go the completely opposite way, but this is not to contradict business because I actually believe it. I'm very, even stronger than before under the opinion that it should sit under revenue and not somewhere else, to me, the essence of revenue [00:18:00] ops is what I talked about is getting actual improvements into the organization. And that's why it's so important to be close to where revenue is being generated, wherever that is, customer success, sales, and to some extent, even marketing, because those also have their own troubles, even if they're different, and not the analytical and reporting side is not what's the essence to me.
Raul: And that's actually, in my opinion, what will get a Robux person to then become a good leader and a CRO and, and whatever, but I know. That the trend nowadays is going a different direction. I just come from a very like realistic point of view. And in reality, if you want to get any actual improvement rather than pretty slides and forecasts, you need to be as close to the sales team and put your finger into the oil and see if it's rancid or not.
Toni: I agree with that, so first of all, in my own cases, I was CRO twice, RevOps always reported to me, period. There was not even a question. If I were to be CRO again, I wouldn't take it without having revenue operations, [00:19:00] period. I think the upset in the market sometimes comes from CROs that are really VPO sales, like that really being who they are.
Toni: And I think that usually is an issue. So I think if revenue operations reports into the VP of sales, even if he or she is being called differently, that creates an issue because it creates an optimization for sales and not for the rest. And that's, that's a problem, right? But besides that, what is starting to happen here and there is that people are putting them under finance.
Toni: And the reason is that they're putting them under finance under the CFOs. Yes, the CFOs numbers, knowledgeable and number centering and data driven, right? They're kind of neutral. They're sitting on the sidelines and having rebels being neutral across the go to market organization is kind of a good thing.
Toni: And I think the end result that you will be seeing if you put RevOps under finance depends heavily on your CFO as well, But, what the end result [00:20:00] usually is they become a little bit more strategic. the CFO doesn't necessarily only think about this quarter's sales result.
Toni: The CFO also thinks about the quarter after and the year end. And, you know, what are the products that are driving us, in the right direction longer term than only just short term. So therefore, Revops folks will be a bit more, long term thinking, which not necessarily needs to be a good thing, by the way.
Toni: So that's why I'm not saying kind of that's the right angle, but that will be the outcome, right? And then in more mature organizations, what are you seeing is that That strategic angle then sometimes gets replaced by a very specific FP& A person. So financial planning and analytics under the CFO, with a commercial spin.
Toni: and that sometimes, overlaps very much with the strategic RevOps perspective. Right. But I think overall, if You have a CRO, put it to the CRO. If the CRO really is just a VP of sales, or if you don't [00:21:00] have a CRO and just VP sales marketing CS, don't put it anywhere there.
Toni: Consider putting it to yourself as a CEO, depending on how large the organization is, right? if you are the de facto. Go to market leader. If you de factor that, then there is a case to be made that revolves to you. then there's kind of a ceiling where this makes sense, because of the size of the organization potentially.
Toni: the other option is to put it under the CFO slash COO. Few folks have an actual COO by now, right? most folks kind of skip that function. That's then really the other place where to park it. the downside of this sitting with a CFO is that they will just be pretty far removed from sales and from, actually getting stuff done to your point.
Toni: Right. So that's actually kind of the two different places where I see this usually happen.
Raul: And so for the folks at home, when do you know that you have a CRO or a VP sales?
Toni: when he or she. [00:22:00] Yeah, it's a kind of a good question. overall, when they start optimizing for the whole funnel and not just for their team. that's overall the answer and the whole funnel goes all the way down to churn, right?
Toni: So if they start being like, yes, we should be taking those demos, even though they should be qualified, but we have enough capacity and yes, our conversion rate might go down, but actually kind of it's, you know, could, you know, still result in revenue. that gives you an hint that they start thinking about, not just their metrics, but the marketing and sales metric funnel together.
Toni: and then the other thing is. Being more critical with what deals they let in. it's like, you know what, actually, maybe this is not a good customer. Maybe we kind of need to change something here. I think this is where you start understanding who a CRO is and who's, who's a VP of sales. What I have seen, in bad ways is that Kind of the, the go to market lead as a de facto sales leader, and then basically, optimizes for the sales team too much, meaning increases the quality [00:23:00] expectation threshold on the marketing side.
Toni: Well, all of those leads basically need to be ready to send a DocuSign tool, right? And that can't work with anything else. So you need to give me more of those. Otherwise marketing is useless. But then on the other side, kind of increasing the threshold for input there, but then decreasing the threshold on the other side and just allowing to close anything and whatever comes their way, right?
Toni: To the CS team, and then to deal with that, those are behaviors where you kind of clearly see, and the thing is like VP of sales, they're also super loyal to their team. So that's why they're doing this. They're not doing this because they're evil to the organization.
Toni: They're trying to optimize for their, for their group. Right. and that's where you can see that someone is more like a VP sales type than a, than a CRO type.
Raul: There was a long one sentence answer, but all of it obviously made sense. So, okay, now you know what you're in. Now you kind of know what you're looking for.
Finding and growing RevOps talent
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Raul: How do you go about finding that person? Where do you put that person? We talked about, but now let's say, okay, cool, Toni, Raul. I need two or three of those. How do I find them? [00:24:00] And what is maybe a place to go look for? And one of the. Things that I really have seen. I mean, it's hard to say with RevOps really worked because it's still evolving all the time. So you can come to final conclusions, but other things that I have seen work is.
Raul: Understanding in general, just hiring best practices, which I think a lot of people don't follow already, which is understand very well what you need and like, how do you assess for that by testing rather than talking about it? Okay, cool. but then go with archetypes. So understand that, like you kind of understand, okay, like what is, maybe you even have a bigger rev ups organization set up already, that there's this more analytical person and that could satisfy some needs, and then there is a more sales driven person that could satisfy some needs.
Raul: Do you have room for two or three people that together combine as a whole, or do you have just room for one person? Completely different situations, but I think it's good to think in those archetypes. And why is that? Because what I [00:25:00] do see happen, in reality, let's be honest here, 80 percent and 90 percent of companies, they download some job description.
Raul: They just say, hey, give me the benchmark job description. They copy that, change a couple words, and then send it out and say, this is what we're looking for. And that's what they give to the HR person, if you're lucky at all. And they're looking for the jack of all trades always.
Raul: It's good to think about those archetypes.
Toni: Yes, I think the other thing is inside your organization, you might find them inside your organization actually kind of, and again, they might be coming from finance, they might be coming from sales and then marketing roles already.
Toni: then the other thing is also know what kind you're looking for when. So if you're just starting out with revenue operations, honestly, you might be just looking for Salesforce admin. Many times that's potentially the first hire.
Toni: If really what you need is a, is a system admin. And I think this can make sense in the pitch to kind of say like, Hey, listen, kind of for the first year or whatever timeframe, We need you to clean this thing up and then we can progress. We can hire an assistant [00:26:00] admin for you and you can do more, some other stuff, but like be, be a little bit clear on that.
Toni: Actually kind of, this is a big pain point from RevOps folks out there that basically say like, well, they say head of, head of RevOps, but the job description really just is Salesforce. and kind of be aware of that. And then, you know, what? Dealing from other companies is an easy way to get revenue operations.
Toni: the pitch is, Hey, start something from zero. If you have someone that is a manager and a director, hey, start with something from zero, be your own boss, or, title upgrade, right? Going from head of to director or whatever it might be. So it's, I think there is not too much movement in the RevOps market.
Toni: You could even think about, finding someone that does sales ops for a similar organization, then upgrade them to revenue operations for you. There are a couple of those ways. I think how you can probably get people away from their current role and then get them into your organization.
Toni: But that's how we're trying to find, the right folks to start working on revenue operations.
Raul: I do think, so we, you talked about getting them from, [00:27:00] from within your own organization. I think still a highly underrated, the majority of success cases that I have seen over the years actually are that, right. people that have either grown into that or become interested, it could have been in less cases, the salespeople who have become interested in that and then try to grow it into this.
Raul: Or like the. Data person who then, this is, by the way, a very typical one, a data person, or maybe even sometimes a product person who wants to, get more commercial. and I think that's one thing, or a lot of times also more of like an admin or a technical person, like could also be the case. So that's great, right?
Raul: Hiring from someone else, we do have to say it is still a growing, resource and we still don't have enough of it, I do think, in my opinion. But I do think that One of the things you haven't mentioned, and I have a idea why, is grow them yourself, right? So like as a CRO,
Raul: It doesn't even have to be a CRO necessarily, right?
Raul: It could be as a leader of some, some people. You don't even have to hierarchically lead that person.
Raul: What I have had success with is growing them myself, [00:28:00] right? So getting people with potential who might be from those top universities, might be not coming from a top university, but with a top mindset, like with a fast learning and analytical and, and just the basics and not a lot of experience and put them through those experiences.
Raul: Because if you have the right person, my experience is that they can learn the basics of things that are needed for the job incredibly fast. You would be surprised how fast a guy from, I don't know, Copenhagen Business School might become a good RevOps person.
Raul: It can take three to six months and they'll be there already. Right. If you're willing to put in the work.
Toni: No, so this was my comment on, you know, do it and find that person, find the talent internally. Like take someone that is maybe working in sales or marketing right now or CS. you know, they will usually also raise the hand that they're open for something like this.
Toni: So at least this is what I'm telling everyone kind of, if you want to go in that direction, you know, be vocal about it. if you're taking someone from the commercial side, you're going to be looking for analytical skills and, coming from the right university sometimes might be [00:29:00] a hint for that, but usually we'll figure this out pretty quickly.
Toni: And then the good thing is there are a bunch of, You know, there's a bunch of content that helps RevOps people evolve. I mean, this podcast here is maybe a bit on the fringes of this, but the revenue formula that I'm doing with Mikkel here on the other side is, is certainly something that can help.
Toni: And then there's like certifications from HubSpot and so forth that are. helping it to become a better, Ravops person. But yeah, I mean, wrapping this up a little bit. We, I mean, we chatted a lot. We chatted, you know, how beautiful Sweden can be. Sorry, Denmark. Denmark is also pretty beautiful also.
Toni: we talked about, what kinds of RevOps folks are out there and where to find them, where they should be sitting. and I think all of those things are just shitty obstacles that You know, there might be someone listening that's like, ah, you know what? I'm actually thinking this RevOps thing could be the right thing for my organization, but how do I get started?
Toni: And, I hope we help folks solve that a little bit, that little pain that they have there in order to kind of get to the next step. And yeah, I mean, hope you enjoyed it. Thanks for listening and, you know, hit like, [00:30:00] subscribe, follow whatever, wherever you are. And, um, thanks. Thanks again, Raul.
Raul: Thank you.