James Browning: Hi.
My name is James.
And this is luminous voices.
Each episode.
We hear from someone who is
speaking light into the world.
We are listening to luminous voices.
Today.
Let's talk about connection.
Becky Harling: So I am Becky Harling.
I am a wife, a mother, a grandmother.
I have so much fun being a grandmother.
Um, and I am an author.
I'm a speaker.
I'm a podcaster and I'm a coach.
Those are the things I do.
I would say at the core of who I am,
I just love connecting with people.
James Browning: Like Becky said, she's a
speaker has served on the mission field.
And host the podcast, the connected
mom from the Lumivoz podcast network.
Becky is all of these
things and she's my friend.
She's written several books,
including her most recent.
Becky Harling: Okay.
So the book is actually called Cultivating
Deeper Connections in a Lonely World.
And.
It, you know, it really addresses
the felt need of loneliness.
Uh, the surgeon general came out with a
report in 2023 that I personally found
staggering, and I was in the middle of
writing a book on loneliness, but that we
are in an epidemic of loneliness, like.
People have forgotten how to connect.
James Browning: What Becky
is referring to is the 2023
surgeon general report entitled.
Our epidemic of loneliness and isolation.
In it, the surgeon general argues
that loneliness and isolation.
Our significant public health concerns.
With negative impacts on individuals.
And community wellbeing.
Becky Harling: And so one of the things
that I say in the book, but that is
a core belief for me is loneliness
is not really the absence of people.
It's feeling disconnected.
And that is the cry of
our culture right now.
We are very disconnected.
Despite having the ability to instantly
connect digitally, like never before.
And despite the fact that we
have the freedom and ability
to travel, like no generation.
In history.
We are disconnected.
Beyond individualistic.
We are isolated.
But that isolation not
only keeps us separated.
It even robs us of the ability to be
content when we are in quiet, seclusion.
Becky Harling: Yeah.
And, and so that's called solitude, right?
And solitude restores us.
It can restore our relationship with
God, but isolation is different.
Isolation is where you disconnect
from people, you know, for you to
walk home for 30 minutes, probably
prepares you emotionally for whatever
you're going to face at home.
You've kids.
So they're going to
want to be with people.
Daddy, they're going to want to play.
And you might just need that solitude
walking home so that you can connect
with your kids more deeply, you know,
and enter in with them and help them
feel heard and loved and valued.
But again, solitude is
different than isolation.
How do you know if you're isolated?
Well, you reflect back on your week
and you think to yourself, you know,
you honestly reflect how much, uh, time
did I have genuine face to face time
with people where I had like a deep
conversation or a meaningful conversation?
How did I interact with my
spouse maybe, or my kids?
How have I had any good friends?
Where are my friendships at?
So that's a way to figure out.
If you've been isolated, but what to do if
you don't feel like connecting, I think a
lot of times we need to have a little self
management meeting, you know, where we
kind of take our feelings before the Lord
and say, you know, God, I just don't feel
like connecting with anybody right now.
So help me understand what's going on in
my soul because it could be exhaustion.
You know, I know for my
husband and I, we travel a lot.
Um, We are with a lot of people a lot
of the times and we'll come home from
a trip and I mean we don't even maybe
feel like talking to each other because
we're what my husband calls people doubt.
So while I love people, I, you know,
we need little breaks along the way.
So, but learning to ask ourselves those
questions in front of the Holy Spirit
is almost like a personal coaching
session, you know, am I exhausted?
Have I been You know, pushing
past my limits consistently.
Am I in relationships that are feeding
my soul or are all of them draining
and then, you know, praying about
moving forward, Lord, I would really
like a friend where it's mutual.
I would like a friend who understands
me where I'm at spiritually and
emotionally and can meet me there
and not always drain from me.
So those are just some of the
questions I like to ask myself.
James Browning: Developing our
relational and emotional fitness.
Isn't easy though.
The surgeon General's report that Becky
referenced earlier states that isolation
can have the same negative health effects
as smoking up to 15 cigarettes a day.
And just like smoking.
It can be hard to stop.
Sitting at home is easy.
Investing in others and relationships.
That takes work.
Becky Harling: I kind of
think I always have to take a little bit
of responsibility for being isolated.
And I can think of two seasons
in my life where I felt isolated.
Interestingly, One of them
was when my husband and I were
traveling nonstop for four years.
I think we did like 65
countries in four years.
Uh, you know, so it was like, come home
quick, connect with all the kids and the
grandkids unpack, do the wash, repack and
head to the airport for another flight.
And I just remember feeling really lonely.
And my husband looked at me like what on
earth we've been with millions of people.
How can you feel lonely?
But I didn't feel connected.
You know, we hadn't.
Stephen, I hadn't had us time, you know,
where we could deeply connect because
we, you know, we would open the door of
our hotel and there were people there
waiting for us, you know, and, um, and
I didn't feel deeply connected with
my closest friends because I didn't
have time to get together with them.
So there I would say busyness.
Really impacted my isolation.
Another time was when we were living
overseas and there, it was interesting
because, um, we were serving with
a mission organization, but I just
found I was having a really hard time
relating to the other missionaries.
They were a lot older than us.
They didn't have the same interests.
And so when I realized I was lonely,
I started reaching out to the
diplomatic corps, and that actually.
Went well for me, you know, I made a lot
of friends there and, and that ended up
having a really good spiritual result as
well, because some of them I was able to
lead to Christ, you know, so then I felt
a little more connected, but, you know,
I think loneliness always invites us to
ask the question, why am I lonely and it's
a signal that something needs attention.
Recognizing that need in my own life is
just the first step of an ongoing journey.
The good news is that each step is
an investment in something bigger.
And more beautiful than myself.
Becky Harling: Yeah.
And I think, you know, this book isn't
necessarily about making new friends.
You might need to do that,
but it's also about investing.
More intentionally in the friendships
you do have, you know, like doing
kind of, you can tell him a coach
cause I'm always evaluating.
Right?
So, but you, you kind of look at
your friendships and you, you assess
them and you realize, Hey, these two
friends, you know, like in my life, I
have two friends and I've been friends
with them for one of them for over
30 years and one for over 25 years.
And I, I, I know when I feel lonely,
I need to invest in those two friends
because they get me, they get my
life, they have been in my life for
years, we pray for each other, and
those are treasures, you know, so
sometimes it is about just being
friendly and making new friends, but
sometimes it's about investing more
intentionally in the friends that
you do have, who are the friends
that you would feel devastated about.
If you lost, you know, and
so those are the friends you
want to be intentional about.
James Browning: This type of investing.
Is a little different than something
like investing for your retirement.
Both.
Are working now to build a better future.
But investing in relationships
and then friendships is also
the foundation of our society.
It is what families are built on.
So, how do we invest in relationships?
Becky Harling: Yeah, I, I actually
love that question, James.
I think one of the ways we
invest in the people we love is
by learning to listen to them.
Listening is A lost art in our culture.
We have a lot of people shouting opinions.
I mean, this is the
election season, right?
I mean, people have opinions on everything
and they're very free with those
opinions, you know, and everything is
black and white one way or the other.
But if you really want a deep friendship
with somebody, you have to learn to
listen to them and not just hearing them,
but seeking to understand who they are,
and then you feel validated and heard,
and we need to make people feel heard.
And, and so we've got to really
cultivate the art of listening.
We have to cultivate the
art of humility, right?
You can't, you can't come into every
friendship thinking you're the expert.
Oh my word.
We have plenty of experts out there
and we have some people who think
they're the expert on everything and
honestly, they're just annoying because
nobody wants to be with somebody
who's the expert on everything, right?
They, they want to just
see humility in your life.
And, and that's a big quality that
maybe we're lacking in our friendships.
One other way to invest is, um,
inviting people into your home.
You know, it's been interesting over
the last 50 years in our culture,
we've all gotten addicted to
taking people out to coffee shops.
We love to take people out to dinner,
but the relationship goes deeper
when you say, Hey, why don't you
come over to my house for coffee?
Let's sit down and have coffee together.
I want to hear your story.
Or maybe you want to pray together
that takes the relationship deeper.
So those are just some
intentional things you can do.
You know, I like to tell
the story of my grandmother.
I used to go into New York
city where she lived and spend
a week with her every summer.
Every afternoon, James, at three
o'clock, Aunt Isabel came over.
Now, to this day, I have no idea
who Aunt Isabel even is, other than
she was my grandmother's friend.
And every day at three o'clock, they
had coffee and coffee cake together.
They did it for years.
And I, I look at that now and
I say, you know, in our culture
today, we've kind of lost that.
But you go deeper with people
when you have them in your home.
It's hard not to see relationships like
Becky's grandmother and Isabel, and
be a little wistful or even somewhat
envious of that kind of friendship.
Uh, friendship that is at
once both casual and profound.
A timeless foundation built
with afternoon coffee cake.
But it is also easy to see that
kind of relationship and think
that seems out of reach for me.
How do I get from my busy life?
To an afternoon of laughter
and tears and coffee.
Becky Harling: Well, you
start by taking a baby step.
You start by saying, okay, this week I'm
going to invite a friend over and I'm not
going to worry that the house is Perfect.
I mean, you're in the
season of raising kids.
I doubt your house is perfect, but you
know, maybe you're extraordinary at that.
I don't know.
Anyway, you're, you're going to say
to yourself, I'm not going to worry
about how the house looks like.
I mean, maybe you're just going to order
pizza and some drinks and you're going
to just say, come on over and we're
going to let the kids hang out together.
It's going to be wild and
crazy, but it's going to be.
Great, because you're going to be in my
home and you're going to see how I live.
So you start by taking a baby step.
You know, maybe if that feels too scary,
you invite a neighbor over for coffee.
Hey, let's have coffee this week.
Come on over to my house
and let me hear your story.
Everybody has a story and
they like to share it.
Taking a baby step.
Isn't hard.
The building momentum is for
myself and some others out there.
The gap from taking a step with a friend.
To going on a journey with them.
Feels pretty hard.
Becky Harling: Yeah.
And you know, I think somehow in
our culture now we've bought this
myth or this lie that relationships
don't take any work, but they do.
Every relationship takes an
investment on both people's part.
You know, you look at marriage and
if you don't want to work at your
marriage, it's, it's not going to work.
Right.
And it's the same with parenting.
It's it, you have to work at it.
You have to work at your friendships.
You have to put.
An investment in, in order to enjoy
the benefit of that relationship.
You know, complacency is
warned against in Proverbs.
And I, I kind of love that because I
think sometimes we get complacent in
our relationships and we take them for
granted and we just think they're going
to be there forever when we haven't
put anything into the relationship.
James Browning: The idea of putting
something into the relationship.
Of putting yourself into the relationship.
It was a little daunting.
Because it not only
requires vulnerability.
It requires humility.
Humility is a golden thread that is
woven throughout the entire book,
cultivating deeper relationships
because it is essential.
To true and deep and
lasting relationships.
But humility leaves no
room for selfishness.
And it leaves no room for insecurity.
So, how do we.
How can I develop that
essential humbleness?
Becky Harling: Yeah.
And I, what I'm going to say is
going to sound a little bit scary.
Are you ready?
Um, you go to somebody who is, you go to
somebody who is extremely close to you,
like your spouse or somebody who you know
is going to be gut level honest with you.
And you say to them, how
are you experiencing me?
Do you experience me as humble or do you
experience me as needing to be the expert?
Or do you experience me as being the
truth policed in our relationship?
You know, there's nothing more annoying
when you're telling a story to a group of
people and you forget some detail and your
spouse jumps in as the truth police and
says, no, no, no, it didn't go that way.
It went this way, you know, and
that doesn't encourage intimacy.
It just, Put stress in
the relationship, right?
So, you know, going to people
that are close to you and
saying, how do you experience me?
How did you experience me
in that meeting at work?
How do you think, you know,
do you experience me as being
humble or do you experience me?
As being full of myself, you know,
that's a great place to start.
James Browning: The book of Proverbs says
that the wounds of a friend are faithful.
I think it is because they're
like a surgeon scalpel.
Sharp and direct a friend
will know your deepest flaws.
And your silliest insecurities.
And just like that surgeon, those
wounds might even save your life.
No matter how many tears they may bring.
Becky Harling: You say, thank you.
And you take it back to the Lord
and you have another one of those
self management meetings like,
Lord, I realized that a weakness
in my life is I'm really insecure.
And I.
Know that you love me completely,
that you are, you know, my place of
deepest security, but uproot that
insecurity in me and fill me with the
kind of holy confidence that only you
can give so that I can come across
more humble in my relationships.
James Browning: Cultivating deeper
connections has a chapter dedicated
to letting go of a critical spirit.
I personally have been to seminary,
my wife and I both work at a church.
It is easy for me to
be critical of sermons.
Critical of the various
programs or ministries.
Or even podcasts like this one,
because if I'm being honest,
I know enough to be critical.
But I'm not doing enough to
nurture those communities.
How can I let go of that critical spirit?
Becky Harling: Well, and
I, I think you're right.
I think that this is a major problem in
particularly the American church today.
I don't feel like it's as much of a
problem overseas, but here in America,
we feel like we have the corner on
theology a lot and we feel like,
okay, I can go into a church and
I'm going to go in as an evaluator.
Rather than a person who wants to
receive something from the Holy Spirit.
And so we evaluate the message
for sure, but oh my word, we
evaluate the worship music.
And I mean, if the worship music
doesn't suit our style, or.
Or if we don't like the style
of the pastor, he might be the
most profound guy out there.
Or if he doesn't tell enough
jokes, I mean, we're out of there
because there's another church
down the street we can go to.
All of that has kind of contributed
to us having a critical spirit,
but It doesn't honor God, right?
I mean, Jesus was pretty clear.
He said don't judge other people.
Now that doesn't mean that you can't
discern between what's right and wrong.
You know, if somebody's preaching
something and you feel it's contrary
to the word of God, you can, You
know, go somewhere else where
you're going to get biblical truth.
And that's not necessarily having a
critical spirit, a critical spirit is
when you're accusing another person,
you know, of being boring or being.
I don't know, whatever.
But you know, the way I like
to think of it, James is, you
know, Satan is the accuser.
He's called that in the, in the Bible.
And we are never more like Satan than
when we're accusing other people.
And the thing is, he's
pretty good at what he does.
So he doesn't need our help
to accuse other people.
We need to be more like Jesus, you
know, who didn't accuse other people.
James Browning: Parenting is a challenge
because it requires connection.
Connection between parent and
child and parent in the community.
It takes a village to raise a
child, but parenting, and busy-ness
leave a little time for those
moments of friendly investment.
But it can be done.
And that's Becky's message to parents
and moms who feel too busy to invest.
But really want to.
Becky Harling: Yeah.
So the name of my podcast is
the connected mom podcast.
And the reason I chose that name is
because I wanted to help moms connect
more deeply with God, because a lot of
them feel like, man, God's out there.
I've got this crazy life down here.
I'm trying to wrangle these
kids and I don't feel a change.
deeply connected to God.
So I wanted to help them deepen
their connection with God.
I also wanted to help them,
connect more empathetically with
their fellow moms because we just
got done talking about judging.
And a lot of times moms are great
at judging each other, right?
I mean, one mom gets her
kid potty trained at two.
Another doesn't have a kid
potty trained till six.
And the one that's a champ at
potty training judges the other or
discipline, you know, or whatever.
And I wanted to help moms
like let's connect more deep.
Let's connect more empathetically as moms.
Let's understand that every mom
out there is trying her best.
And then finally I wanted
to help moms connect more
intentionally with their child.
Because if your child.
builds a secure attachment in
childhood in the early years, they
are able to form these more connected
relationships later in their life.
And so it's really important.
You know, I think it was Dallas Willard
that Was asked the question, what's the
greatest hindrance to my spiritual walk?
And he said, ruthlessly eliminate
hurry because you know, busy ness
it, you can have a full life.
You're going to have a full life as
a parent because it's, it's actually
the best way to become unselfish,
just become a parent because
everything becomes about that child.
Right.
But I think, um, we still have
to guard ourselves that we're not
running ragged, you know, and.
And so, because when we start to run
ragged, if we have the kids involved
in so many activities that we don't
even have time to get together with
friends, then that is isolating.
So you kind of have to sit with
that question and ask yourself,
how often am I in a crazy hurry?
You know, am I constantly saying,
hurry up and get your shoes
on so we can get out the door?
Interesting.
Jesus never turned to the disciples
and said, would you guys hurry
up and get your sandals on?
We're running late.
You know, he just went
along at a steady pace.
Um, parenting is exhausting.
And so if you need time to regroup,
you get time to regroup, but
you also need those connections.
You need other parents.
You know, I just heard about a group that
started about a month and a half ago, and
it's a group of dads and there's like five
of them in the group and they're meeting.
Every other Tuesday for coffee at 6 a.
m.
And they're just talking about like
how to live like Christ as a husband,
as a dad, they pray for each other.
They're, they all have, you know, active
careers, but there's community there and,
and we need that in our parenting journey.
You know, it starts by just
getting together with each other
you know, we we are not meant ever
to exercise our spiritual gifts.
I don't think in isolation.
So, you know for moms like I think
when Steve and I were Raising our kids.
Um, we were in, Steve was a pastor.
So our life was very busy.
I was on staff at the church.
So we were both working for the
same church and we had four kids.
Um, and, but I remember like, that
we had really good friends there.
And so we were We were
raising our kids together.
And so the, the moms and the
dads of the teenage girls, we had
a daughter who was a teenager.
We would all get together and
pray for our girls together.
And then the, the parents that had
teenage boys, like our son was a teenager.
We would all pray for them together.
I think of another friend,
uh, who we started praying
together when our kids were.
My youngest two were like two and
four and hers were one and four.
And we started praying back then together.
And we're still doing that now.
In fact, we prayed together this
morning and we have 20 grandchildren
between us now, but we pray for all of
them by name, but it you're not meant
to do the parenting journey alone.
It's too hard.
So whether you're a single parent
or whether you're married, You
need to be parenting in community.
You know, sometimes you just lose your
perspective as a parent and you think,
I'm ready to send this kid to the moon.
You know, it's your community that can
come alongside of you and say, you know,
laugh with you a little bit and say,
you know, I have felt that way too.
You know, what can I do to help?
Let's go for a walk.
Let's get their wiggles out on the
trampoline or whatever, you know, but
we need to be doing it in community.
James Browning: Loneliness and
isolation flourish in an environment of
busy-ness of insecurity and life change.
But no matter how much or how little
time you have to invest, you can
still choose to invest those minutes.
Into something bigger than yourself.
Your community.
Will you invest in someone today?
Becky Harling: Don't be
a victim to loneliness.
Loneliness is not the absence of people.
It's feeling disconnected
from those people.
I say that all throughout the book.:
James Browning: Thank you for
listening to luminous voices.
You can find Becky's book, cultivating
deeper connections for moody press.
Online or at your favorite bookstore?
And hear Becky at the
connected mom podcast.
And following this, Becky is
featured in a bonus episode.
Where we chat about her experience
as an author and navigating
the world of publishing.
We'll see you next time.