Multithreaded Income Podcast

In this episode, host Kevin Griffin engages in an insightful conversation with Sarah Shook, a freelancer transitioning from agency work to pursuing her passions for CSS and front-end development. Sarah shares her journey from working in recruitment to diving into tech, her experiences at a THAT Conference Texas, and her decision to freelance for flexibility with her family. She discusses the challenges of finding stability in freelancing, the importance of networking, and her strategic moves towards building a personal brand and a potential SaaS product. Sarah's story illuminates the paths available for freelancers seeking to carve out their niches while balancing work and family life.

00:00 Introduction and Guest Welcome
00:10 Discussing the Recent Conference Experience
01:25 Sarah's Journey into Freelancing
02:18 Exploring Future Conferences and Opportunities
02:47 Sarah's Background and Entry into Tech
04:46 Working with Agencies and Finding Gigs
10:46 The Pros and Cons of Freelancing
15:32 Current Projects and Future Aspirations
26:48 Balancing Work and Family Life
29:26 Setting Goals and Measuring Progress
29:55 Looking Ahead: Sarah's Vision for the Future
35:05 Conclusion and Final Thoughts

Sarah on Twitter:

Creators & Guests

Kevin Griffin
♥ Family. Microsoft MVP. Consultant/Trainer focused on #dotnet #aspnetcore #web #azure. VP at @dotnetfdn @revconf Mastodon: - He/Him
Sarah Shook 🎀💎
Front end developer | designer | consultantI create accessible and responsive web apps and streamline processes for a better user experience

What is Multithreaded Income Podcast?

In the "Multithreaded Income Podcast," host Kevin Griffin navigates the nuanced landscape of generating multiple income streams as a technologist. Aimed at professionals who wish to diversify their revenue while maintaining a focus on technology, this podcast dives deep into unconventional strategies, untapped opportunities, and actionable advice.

It's time for the multi
threaded income podcast.

We're like insurance for a
turbulent tech landscape.

I'm your host, Kevin Griffin.

Join me as I chat with people all around
the industry who are using their skills

to build multiple threads of income.

Let us support you in your career
by joining our discord at mti.

to slash discord.

Now let's get started.

Kevin Griffin: Hey, everyone.

Welcome back to the show.

I'm joined by my special
guest today, Sarah Shook.

How are you today, Sarah?

Sarah Shook: I'm doing really good.

Thanks for having me on the show, Kevin.

Kevin Griffin: Oh, absolutely.

Um, so we met at that conference,
and I think at the time we were

recording this, it was a month ago.

Ooh, an entire month has
flown by, I think, since that

conference, which is mind blowing.

Uh, how was that conference for you?

Sarah Shook: It was really good.

I was able to meet people I've known
online for a few years and person see

people that I've already met, but, you
know, haven't gotten a chance to really,

like, talk to in depth conversations.

And I came away feeling a
lot more motivated than Yeah.


I did whenever I was going down there,
I was really anxious to go down there.

It was my first trip by
myself since having kids.

So over nine years and I was a ball
of nerves, but as soon as I got there,

it was, everybody was friendly and it
was just a really great experience.

And since then, I've been so much more
productive this past month than I have,

um, than I have in a few months before.

Kevin Griffin: What was the Reason
for going out of that conference.

Did you see it come across your
social, uh, why that conference?

Sarah Shook: Well, you know, I've
been freelancing for a few years and,

um, right now I only have one client.

And so I have been trying
to work on networking.

I had fallen off of the networking
bandwagon when I was doing agency

freelancing, which I'm sure we'll
probably touch on here in a bit.

Um, and so I, I just.

I wanted to rebuild and
start networking again.

And I was given the, uh, I was,
I was actually given a ticket.

So, um, between networking and
also I'm an introvert and I hadn't

really had much social interaction.

And I'm also the only dev in
my friend and family circle.

So being able to talk with other
developers and people that have

similar goals, that was what I
was looking to get out of it.

And I definitely did get
all of that and more.

Kevin Griffin: Oh, that's excellent.

And yeah, hopefully it's
not your last conference.

Uh, do you have any other
conferences that you like to

attend that might be coming up?

Have you thought that far ahead?

Sarah Shook: I haven't thought
that far ahead, but I definitely

do want to go to another one.

Um, I'd love to go to at least
to that again in Texas next year.

Um, for sure.


Kevin Griffin: that conference,
Texas is on my short list,

uh, just depending on timing.

So we're going to keep our fingers
crossed and I have to get selected

this week and all, all that jazz.

It's always the detail.

Uh, so Sarah, for folks out there who
might not be familiar with you, want

to give us kind of the, the gist of
your story to where you are today.

And then we'll go into some of the
details a little bit afterwards.

Sarah Shook: sure.

So, um, as far as my story goes,
you know, I didn't start out

well when I was younger, my mom,
um, built her own computers and

was always tinkering with hers.

And my uncle owned a
software development company.

So I've been around tech
since I was very young.


Um, I didn't get into actually
development until probably about 25

from eight from age 18 until then.

I was a recruiter.

And so I did that.

And, um, I ended up having kids and
taking a bit of a leave and, um,

I started working with an online K
through 12 school, and I started doing

basic system administration for them.

I wouldn't say it's like
full administration.

It was all remote work, right?

So I wasn't dealing with the routers or
or or the switches or anything like that.

But I did start doing PowerShell
there and automating scripts for

students and the enrollment process.

And then, um, the pandemic hit, and
I really wanted to get into the more

front end side of things, so I started,
uh, I joined Twitter, and I ended up

winning a boot camp through Twitter,
and did that, and while I was in the

boot camp, I landed my first freelance
role through an agency, which I had no

idea what an agency was at that time.

As far as freelancing goes, I
knew what it was for recruiting,

but not for freelancing.

Um, and so I did that for a while
and I've, um, and now I'm, I haven't

been working with that agency for
about probably six months or so,

but I do still have another client.

Um, and that's really it.

Like I, I went from, you know, the
system administration to bootcamp, to

freelancing, to where I am now, which
is kind of in this middle ground.

And I'm sure we'll go into that as well.

Kevin Griffin: So freelancing
through an agency, I am pretty

sure you're the first person we've
had on who works with agencies.

Um, tell us a little bit about the just
process of working with the agency,

finding gigs through the agency.

Um, cause I'm sure people
out there are interested.

How'd you even get started
with the agency to begin with?

Sarah Shook: Yeah, I mean, I got started
through Twitter and networking there,

um, somebody that I knew, uh, knew that
I was a mom and staying at home and

she knew I was looking for something
freelance and connected with us with

another person who I also knew, but
didn't know that he had an agency.

And so we linked up and he gave me
an opportunity to work with him.

And then after the first project, I
did well enough that he kept me on and.

We, I just kept doing projects
after project for him.

I probably did 10 or 11 different
projects throughout my tenure with him.

Um, and as far as finding clients through
the agency, that was the beauty of it.

I didn't have to find the clients.

They found the clients.

I was still freelancing so I could
work any hours that I needed.

Um, but I got to focus on code
and I didn't have to worry about

actually finding the new business.

I just worked once the business was
available, which was really great.

Kevin Griffin: Did you find with the
agency that work was pretty consistent?

Were you ever cool on the bench,
um, for any period of time?

Sarah Shook: Yeah, I mean, so I, the work
did dry up in the end, unfortunately,

but before it, before it dried up and
he ended up going a different direction,

there were maybe one or two times
where there was going to be like a two

week to a month break, but then within
a week or two, another job came up.

So I was lucky that I
did not have a break.

Um, at least up until the end.

Um, I, I know sometimes that that
can be a thing where, you know, you

just have to wait until there's new
business, but I was lucky enough

that that was not the case for me.


Kevin Griffin: I'm curious, kind of
the, the business structure around

the agency, were you working as just
a tenant in 10 99 or did you have your

own, do you have your own business entity
that you work through with the agency?

Sarah Shook: have my own
business entity that I

Kevin Griffin: you do.


Sarah Shook: just me, but I
wanted to have my own business.

Like, Because honestly, I was like a
little kid in a candy shop the day that I

actually like got the business registered.

I was so excited.


It's just like, it feels like
a big step and I can do this.

Um, and right now it's just me, but
you know, in the future, if I decide

to scale and I want to work with other
people, I'll have the opportunity.

I won't have as many hoops
to jump through otherwise.

And it's also safer.

Um, There's, I mean, I could go into the
differences of being a sole proprietor

and having, uh, being a single, uh,
member LLC, but just for, um, security

purposes and, um, like legally legal
purposes, I decided I wanted to just pay

a bit every year to have that feel safe.

Um, and, uh, instead of, instead of
doing the sole proprietor path, which

Kevin Griffin: Yeah, absolutely.

The, the biggest benefit is
it's, tax beneficial to have

your, your own business entity.

Um, anyone out there listening, if you
decide to do the sole proprietor and

1099 through another business, you're
responsible for, and this is us centric.

So anyone outside of the United States.

Sorry, you have different rules,
uh, but in the United States, you're

usually succumb to self employment
insurance or self employment tax,

which is at least another 14 to 16
percent additional tax on, on the

money that you would be bringing in.

So always a good idea and not.

Even talking about the other things
that Sarah just mentioned, just the,

the liability aspect of having a
separate business, just the taxes alone.

I think you save yourself a lot
of pain, just having that entity.

And like you said, it's extremely
easy to set up, isn't it?

Sarah Shook: Yeah, I found, I mean, I'm
sure there's probably better ways to

do it because I didn't know what I was
doing when I signed up the first time.

I'd probably research a bit
more based on my knowledge now.


Um, but I found a, um, an agent,
like a registered agent online and

they're based out of Texas, which is
where I reside, but you can, I think

you can set up like an LLC anywhere.

So some people live in like
California, but then they'll set

it up in Virginia because it's.

Like, the tax laws are different
in the different states.

I didn't want to go, like,
I didn't want to do that.

I am a very by the book person when
it comes to, um, that, and I don't

want to get in any type of trouble.

So I just went with my
own state, you know?

But I know that depending on where you
live, you can be, you have flexibility

to kind of branch out and find better
options, uh, for you, for sure.

Kevin Griffin: it absolutely
depends on what you're doing.

A lot of businesses will
incorporate in Delaware.

Delaware is the famous.

Everyone goes to Delaware on that
simply because Delaware business

law has been tested rigorously.

It's a safer place to set up your business
because if you ever run into a case where

there's a suit between you and And someone
you're working for the laws in Delaware

have been tested so rigorously that any
lawyer knows what they're walking into.

It's not a case of.

Uh, I'm in Virginia and you're in Texas
and if jurisdiction is in Virginia now,

uh, Texas law firm has to figure out
what laws in Virginia apply or don't

apply, help them, don't help them.

It's just more complicated in the
long run, like law in general is, is

complicated, which is why everyone
should have a lawyer, at least on,

on speed dial it, you just hope
you never need to talk to them, but

just have them there just in case.

So Sarah, why freelancing?

There's a lot of opportunity out there
and it feels like you could have went into

a job, a full time job if you wanted to.

Um, why freelancing versus
going the job route?

Sarah Shook: Yeah.

So I kind of have a few different
thoughts because right now I'm actually

on the middle where I'm either looking
for a full time role right now myself

or another client, just depending
on where things take me, we'll see.

I'll talk about that and why.

Um, but the reason I wanted to
do freelancing in the first place

really is because of my kids.

I have three small kids and when I first
started, I had two of them at home.

I still have one at home.

So the flexibility of being able to
stay with them while they're at home.

And I, I know, um, there's lots of people
who put their kids in a daycare and things

like that, and that is so great, but that
wasn't what I wanted to do personally.

Um, and so the fact that I had the
opportunity, not only to save costs,

but to just spend more time with
them until they hit the school age,

um, that was really the big reason.

So I was able to have
the flexibility and also.

I really like the idea
of working for myself.

Um, I did say that I'm open to, you
know, jobs and I have reasons for that,

but working for myself and being my
own boss, ultimately the goal, even

if I got a full time job, I still
have things on the side that I've

started working on that eventually
will give me hopefully passive income.

Um, so, and the, you know, we've talked
a few weeks ago, but like things have

changed since we last talked to for me.

So, um, so yeah, so just.

No matter what, I want to
be able to be my own boss.

And sometimes that might mean, mean
taking a bit of a step back, but in the

future, like, you know, 10 years down the
line, that's where I want to be anyways.

Um, and I've got a head start.

Um, and yeah, so the
flexibility, the freedom.

Um, when it is good, it is good, right?

Like you can make a lot
of money freelancing.

Um, but you know, on the, on the other
side, when it's, when it's not good,

it is, it is a bit more challenging.

Um, you know, and, and, you
know, I did agency freelancing.

And so now I'm at this point where.

Um, I'm not I don't I I have talked to
different agencies and like I'm kind of

on back burner for some if there is needs
that come up that fit my skill set, which

is great, but I don't have like a specific
time frame for when that could happen.

Um, so, um, so I do need some stability
right now, but ultimately in the.

The end, the long term, it would be, you
know, be able to, um, build, whether that

be, um, a SAS, that's bringing in income.

I'm looking at different avenues
to where I can, uh, eventually step

back and, and have my own stuff all
again and feel comfortable, right?

Because finances and comfort
is, is, is a big, a big thing,

especially when you have kids.

Kevin Griffin: So what's
currently on your plate?

Is it just, uh, you
said you had one client.

Is that client for a
finite amount of time?

What's, what's the current environment

Sarah Shook: That's why the
client it's I don't know yet.

And that's the thing.

Um, the big part of the project that I'm
working on is really coming to a close.

And actually, I need to sit down and
like, finish it like today and tomorrow.

Um, but they'll they'll if they
need other things in the future.

Then they'll reach out to me
and most likely they will.

But the thing is, is there's
just no stability there.

Um, and so like, I've also been trying
to network and talk to different people.

Like I said, different agency
owners, um, you and I had a chat

about consulting at one point.

So I've been talking to other
people as well and trying

to learn what they're doing.

Um, the thing is, is because
I took a step, I stopped like.

I stopped networking, like I
mentioned earlier, when I was in,

when I was doing the agency work,
I really kind of shot myself in

the foot and took a step backwards.

And I didn't maintain and continue
building those relationships during

that time, which looking back on and
going forward, I know that I should

definitely still be reaching out no
matter what, and just doing coffee chats

and talking to different people, even
if things are going well, because you

never know, um, when something could
turn and when somebody in your network.

Might be available for you to help them.

Kevin Griffin: Well, it sounds like
you have a little bit of, I'm going to

use the term free time, but I know you
probably don't feel like you have free

time because there's so much going on.

What are the steps that you said
you took a lot away from that

conference, uh, conversations you've
had with me and with other people?

What are your next steps for, I guess, uh,
for anything just with the goal being to

find work and keep the money train going?

Sarah Shook: Yeah, so, I mean, I
started streaming, um, and last time

we talked, I told you I was about
to start, but I did start, and I'm

going to hit affiliate, which means
I will be able to make money from my

streams, so we'll see how that goes.

I'm really excited about that
because, um, It went really well.

I talked to my computer anyways, so
I just talked to my computer while

other people watch, which is great.

So I'm doing that.

Um, I also have a application idea.

Um, look, I've never
done a SAS before myself.

Like, I've worked on, um, multiple.

Bigger projects, but I've never built
like something as big as I want to build

from the ground up But I have been doing
that and streaming about it And I don't

want to say what it is quite yet because
I haven't seen anybody else do it And

so I'm hoping that my idea is like good
enough, but we'll see right you can't

you can't You can't know unless you try.

So that I'm working on that.

And then I am looking, um, actively
looking for either contracts or, um,

or full time, um, which honestly, if
I'm, I'm fine for a little bit taking

full time and having stable benefit or
like actual benefits that I don't have

to pay out the foot for, you know, um,
And so that's, and I've just been doing

a ton of networking and, you know, we
talked about going to that, that really

opened my eyes to continuing to network
and just putting yourself out there.

Um, and like, I've been trying to, I did a
LinkedIn post about this, like, I've been

trying to be okay with being uncomfortable
because when you're uncomfortable,

that's when progress can be made.

And so far it's, it's, I really do feel.

Like, the progress is being made.

It's just, you know, sometimes
it takes a little bit of work

to get to where you want to be.

Kevin Griffin: Well,
that's all good to hear.

And it sounds like you have aspirations.

What type of goals do
you set for yourself?

Just for, I guess, day
after day, week after week?

What, how are you gauging the
progress that you're making?

Sarah Shook: That's a good question.

Um, I mean, so, like, with
streaming, I could start there

because that's, like, kind of what
my goal has been the past few weeks.

Um, That is easy to gauge based on
how many people are following based

on the fact that I've been able to
Get to affiliate status in like less

than two weeks, which I did not I did
not expect that going in So the fact

that I have a good start and then i've
been consistent with that I can see

progress will be made there now I'm
not saying like i'm gonna make a lot of

money off of streaming But if I make a
little bit that'd be great and it still

opens the door To other opportunities
Right now, um, I've been streaming

about different frameworks like Astro.

Recently, I've been doing Vue and Nuxt.

That's what my current thing is.

And so being able to put myself
out there in a way that people can

actually see what I know, that I know
what I'm talking about and see how

my learning process is too, right?

Because I go into these streams and
I don't necessarily know the answer,

you know, so I have to Google or,
you know, chat GTP or whatnot, but

people can actually go and see like
my, my thought process and how I am.

How my, how I like figure things
out or and what I already know.

So, um, so that's one thing,
I guess, as far as, um, goals.

The other thing, um, how
I measure my progress.

Um, I mean, I think talking to more
people, putting myself out there.

And I don't think that that's, it's not
measuring progress to a job, but every

time I have a conversation with somebody,
every time I actually get on a video call.

That's another chance to network
and build those relationships.

And since we've left that a month ago,
I've had several of these types of calls

and, um, you know, I, the network has
been building and I can see that based

on, um, responses and the relationships
and people reaching out to me again on

one on one calls and things like that.

So, um, I don't have like monetary.

Progress right now, because that's what
I'm trying to get to right is being able

to do that, but I can see the progress
being made in getting to that step

that I'm looking for, um, and I think
for me, I'm not really I'm I've always

been like, I'm not good at planning.

And I know that that's like, not really.

That's like, that's I need to work
on that, but I have been working

on that and I can see that going.

And so I kind of.

2 months ago, if you would have asked
me what my goal is, I wouldn't have

said half of the things that I'm
telling you right now, because I've been

putting myself out there and finding
new ways to either, um, network or

potentially build additional income.

, I've been able to measure it internally.

I guess if that makes sense.

Hopefully that answers your question.

Kevin Griffin: Reason I even start
this conversation, and this is why

I found talking to, let's say hu
hundreds of entrepreneurs that I have

interacted with in my, my lifetime,
the most successful ones always have

a, a set of goal, goal or goalposts
for what they're trying to achieve and

the actions in order to achieve it.

The biggest reason that we set these
goals is that we have a finite amount

of time in the day, and I think we'll
also talk a little bit about life

work balance and juggling all the
things at once, but because we have

this finite amount of time, we need
to make sure that we're investing in

the things that provide value and.

There are things you do for work
that produce the money, and there are

things you do for family because you,
you have family responsibilities.

And then you have this other
section of time that's devoted to

improving, I guess, one or the other.

So if you want more work, more passive
income, or more active income streams,

like what are the things that you can do?

And how do you gauge?

Whether or not the actions
you're taking, there are working.

And are they things that you should
continue to spend your time on?

Um, the example I always use is it's,
it's been almost 10 years now, but I

had a startup I was working on and I
devoted two, three years of my life.

To working on this startup and
eventually got to the point where,

uh, it was myself and my business
partner asked ourselves the question,

are we, are we hitting the goalposts?

Like we, we, we say the goalposts
is out here that we want to make.

You know, however many hundreds
of thousands of dollars a

month on, on the product.

But the time and effort that we're
putting into it isn't getting

us closer to that goalpost.

So eventually we just, we stopped
what we're doing because we knew

from ourselves that was easier,
is easier, better, faster to make

money going down different avenues.

The product just wasn't working.

So we shut the product down.

Um, and I see that a lot just in, in my
life where I'll start doing something

just because I think it's fun and
then I think I can make money from it.

But unless I put some accountability
on myself, saying, well, if this isn't

working in six months, then I need to
stop that because there are other things

I like to do, other things I like to try.

So give myself a goal.

If I hit my goal, awesome.

If I don't, I'm going to
transition to do something else.

So that's kind of why I bring up
this topic is I love having this just

thought conversation of, there's a lot
of different things we could be doing.

And so what you're doing now, when do you
take a step back and go, is this working?

Should I be doing something else?

Sarah Shook: yeah.

You know, I think that this
is a great conversation.

And one of the things I would like
to kind of not necessarily counter

with, but I'll put my two cents in as
like, so I was doing agency, um, for

a while and, you know, I got a bit.

Complacent, right?

I told you I stopped really networking.

It was comfortable.

I mean, it was going
really well for a while.

Um, and it felt very stable and I did
not have those goals that you're talking

about because it basically was a lot.

Almost like a full time job.

But, but when it ended, it just ended.

I mean, um, and so now I'm having
to figure out, okay, what is,

what is a good, what am I doing?

Is this going to be a good return
on investment for myself and for my

future, even though it's not making
Um, anything yet at late, like on, on

some of the different endeavors, right?

Because again, I have a client,
but I want to expand, right?

So, um, for me again, I mean, I'm just
going to go to streaming because this

is something I'm super excited about.

And the fact that I've been
able to hit these goals that I.

Very quickly, and I've been very
consistent and I've enjoyed doing it.

Um, my goal for that would be to build it
up and I can't give like a monetary goal.

Oh, I want to make, you know,
1000 bucks a month from this.

I just don't know that far yet
because I haven't done it long enough.

Now I will probably go back and
read or reflect in a month or

two and see where things are.

But for now, um, I do feel
like I'm investing my time in

something that ultimately is
going to help me in the future.


Um, when it comes to like, I redid
my portfolio, which honestly, I still

want to keep going back and redoing.

I had to stop.

I had to cut myself off
and say, no, no more.

I'm spending way too much time.

Because I can, I, I also am like you
were, if I get into something and I

really enjoy it, um, I am going to, I
am going to go down those rabbit holes.

And yeah, I am gaining
knowledge whenever I do that.

So I do feel like that's a win, but is
it a win that I really need right now?

Or is it better that I spend my
time, um, networking instead of,

you know, looking at my website?

Another thing is like, you see
all the time build in public.

Um, I have not done that.

I am a little bit selfish sometimes
with my code and with my ideas.

Um, and that is because, well,
number one, it's kind of scary

to put yourself out there, right?

And especially on my end, if I post
anything technical on Twitter, I get a

ton of comments of, And advice and, uh,
you know, feedback that I did not ask for.

And it's so you, I, you have
to overcome like those types

of fears and just obstacles and
dealing with other people that can

sometimes be a bit of a challenge.

Um, but building in public
itself has paved the way.

And when I was doing it before it gave
me, it gave me so many opportunities.

So doing that type of thing where you're
actually sharing what you're working on.

Um, instead of, and this is a big one for
me, this has been like a new thing where

I'm like, okay, I just have to share it.

I just have to do it and, and take it.

That is a good investment because that is
going to give me a return at some point.

Now I can't tell you the timeframe
yet, but it's worked before.

It works for tons of people in my network.

And I know it's going
to work for me again.

It's just about the formula and how
consistent you are and how nice you are.

I feel like too sometimes.

Kevin Griffin: Let's talk about the
work life management of everything,

because we've just said there's a
lot going on, a lot of different

ambitions and, uh, obligations.

How do you, especially as a mom, how
do you manage all that in a given day

and a given week and a given month?

Sarah Shook: Day by day.

Um, it's a bit easier now
that all of my kids are older.

My youngest, he's still at home,
but he's four and he's easy.

Like he's an easy child
to be at home with.

Um, I told him we have a call.

I have a call right now.

Mommy's going to be on an interview.

Uh, set him up and he's been good.

He has not, like, you know, and I have
another child who would not do that.

She would be inside, she'd be in here like
coming out and saying hi on the camera.

Um, it does get hard when things are
really busy and I have found myself

in really busy times where I'm really
trying to focus and every five minutes

the kids are coming in and I'm trying
to, you know, focus on this code that I

like has a bug in it and I'm trying to
test it and figure out where it is and

I just can't get into that flow state.

And it gets really challenging
when, during those times when

I feel a lot of pressure.

Um, and I noticed though that when
I feel a lot of pressure, sometimes

I can get a little bit snappy.

And when I notice myself getting
snappy, I know I need to take a step

back and take a break from work,
because work is always going to be

there, um, and spend time with my kids.

Um, but as far as like balancing
everything, I feel like, Probably in

the past few months, it's gotten a bit
easier as my kids have gotten older,

but there have definitely been times
in the past where I didn't and it like,

it really affected my mental health.

I didn't have a balance.

And I think right now, you know,
we talk about free time right now.

I mean, yes, it is easier for me to
balance right now without having, um, as

many obligations on my plate as I want.


Um, because I do want more obligations,
but When that happens, I'm going to

have to rebalance again and figure out
what works and know when to step back

and say, I need to just pay attention
to my family because kids are first.


Um, and they only are kids for so long.

And, um.

Was it you who told me the weeks,
the number of weeks until they're 18?

Because that still has, whoever told
me that stuck, it stuck with me.

And like, yeah, it definitely,
they're not, they're only going

to be kids for a little bit.

Um, like my son before this call,
he asked me to snuggle with him

for, uh, for, for a little bit.

And so I did like, I'm
not going to tell them no.

Um, when they ask for snuggles,
like, because they, they still like

my snuggles and they won't always.

Kevin Griffin: Now, they'll get to
a point where they're preteens and

they get those hormones and they
don't want to like, they're fine

being in the same room with you, but
they don't want, they don't want to.

Don't touch me, dad.


Sarah Shook: I know my nine
year old's almost to that point.

I'm like no, but she she isn't yet.

She still likes my hug soap for now

Kevin Griffin: I think we're kind of
coming to the end of our conversation.

So I think the big question
is just big thinking.

If we were to peek in on where
Sarah is five years from now,

where would you love Sarah to be.

Sarah Shook: okay I would love to
follow in Kevin Powell's path Like if

you don't know Kevin Powell, he does
tons of CSS videos on YouTube I'd

like to he does he does what he loves
he works with CSS all day and makes

video and shares his knowledge And I
don't want to be exactly him but that

type of career Uh, would be great.

I love, love, love CSS.

I love doing animations.

If I could just sit there and make little
animated components and then build them.

And actually, that's kind of
what the Sass idea I have is.

I'm not, but like, it has
something to do with components,

but it's not a component library.

So anyways, I like, but, but
that kind of stuff is really

fun making those little details.

Um, and.

So I have, I'm, I'm five years from
now, if I could have everything up and

running and then be streaming what I
know at that point, like, I honestly,

when we talked a few weeks ago and
I was telling you, I don't really

know where I want to be like now.

I actually do, I do have a better
idea, but it's just like, I'm just

taking that first step forward.


Um, so it's going to take a few more
steps for me, um, to, to really like,

see if the fruition is going to be there.


I, but, and like, at this point,
it's like, I almost feel silly, like

sharing my goals to the public because
I like, maybe it's, I feel that other

people will kind of look down on
it, which I shouldn't care anyways.


Um, but I would love to be doing
content creation and sharing knowledge

and specifically focusing on.

Frenon animations and CSS.

Um, that's really what I love.

And you can, you can, you can
make a business out of it.

And that is at this point
what I intend to do.

Kevin Griffin: that's awesome, and
we'll check back with you in a year

at least to see where you are and

Sarah Shook: that would be fun.

We can do a follow up.

Kevin Griffin: Trying to remember
exactly what the phrase is and it's

something around, we, we underestimate
how much we can get done in a year.

And we overestimate how much
we can get done in like a week.

Um, and it's easy for us to say, to feel
stressed out about, Oh, I have so much.

I need to get done this week or.

But, you know, usually after the
year, if you, you know, you set the

goals and you have a plan and you put
it into action, you can get so much

done before the year comes around.

Um, I've done this exercise for eight.

Eight, nine years now where I, I
basically come up with boulders.

And so boulders are the big ideas,
the big things I like to accomplish.

And it might be something like,
I went to launch a course.

Um, I went, or I want to launch four
courses that was ambitious here and.

Well, because I know I
wanna launch four courses.

Okay, well, let me break
that down to a year.

It means I need to launch
a course every quarter.

Okay, so let's take one quarter, have
break that three months up into to dos.

All right?

Every week I have to get something
done, but by the end of the quarter,

I get the, the course launched.

, that's always helped so tremendously well.

And at the end of the year now, I
didn't get four courses done, but

I got two courses done and that
was a, that was good progress.

Sarah Shook: Yeah, I agree.

And I want to say, like, you know, I
listened to your other podcast guests

and I listened to several of the episodes
and I was really surprised when he

reached out because I'm at a different
point than where most of them are.

They're all more established than I am.

But at the same time.

You know, everybody starts somewhere
like you have to start from the

beginning and figure it out.

And like you said, make those
plans, figure out what you want

to make those plans for and do it.

And I am one of those people who if I
want something, I'm going to get it.

It's just taken me a little
while, especially after like

the agency, things ended.

It's taken me a little bit
to figure out what that was.

And I finally did at least for now.

And, but you know, there's still a little
bit more testing to do, but I think I do.

And I.

And I like it's I'm so I'm so interested
in getting to that success level.

Um, and, and I found something
that I really enjoy that

I'm going to make it happen.

And I think that's, I hope
we do check back in a year

to see what the progress is.

And I hope it's really good progress
because I'd love to have like a follow

up to where I started and then where I am
to show other people that it is possible.

You just have to find that niche that
you really enjoy and then run with it.

And then like you said, make
plans and have those goals.

for yourself so that you can
get to where you want to be.

Kevin Griffin: Absolutely.

Well, we'll plan, uh, that
conference Texas next year.

That'll be our check in and we'll
see where, see where you are, Sarah.

Anything to promote before we say goodbye.

Sarah Shook: Yeah, sure, you can
follow me on Twitch at twitch.

tv slash shook codes.

Kevin Griffin: Excellent.

And we'll put that link in the show notes.

Uh, with that, Sarah, thank you so
much for hanging out with me today.

It's been a pleasure to chat with you and
I'm looking forward to hearing the rest of

your story over the next months and years.

Uh, and we'll see everyone next time
on the multi threaded income podcast.

Take care.

You've been listening to the
multi threaded income podcast.

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I've been your host Kevin Griffin
and we'll see you next week.

Cha ching!