The Relational Parenting Podcast

Laura is a wife and mama to 10 amazing people. She is the founder of Mama Systems, a coaching business that helps mamas bring peace to their homes through systems so they can be intentional with their people and show up as the best mama possible. 

Laura Hernandez from Mama Systems shares her journey of creating systems to manage her large family and the impact it has had on her parenting. She emphasizes the importance of prioritizing values and customizing systems to fit each family's unique needs. Laura discusses the benefits of having a teamwork mentality in the household and involving children in household responsibilities. She highlights the Five O'Clock Jobs system as her favorite and explains how it promotes accountability and reduces decision fatigue. Laura believes that implementing systems can create a more intentional and relational family dynamic, preparing children for success in the future.

Takeaways
  • Observing college students' behavior can provide insights into generational differences in behavior and expectations.
  • Relational parenting emphasizes the importance of balancing connection and consequences in raising children.
  • Coaching and personalized support can help parents implement effective systems and strategies.
  • Emotional attachment can influence parenting decisions and reactions.
  • Outsourcing and delegating parenting responsibilities can help parents create more time and energy for themselves.
Chapters
01:36 The Need for Systems
03:16 Creating Customized Systems
05:26 Prioritizing Values
07:06 The Impact of Systems on Parenting
08:23 Handling Chaos and Unsettling Situations
10:50 Intentional Family and Relational Parenting
14:18 Teaching Responsibility and Roommate Mentality
18:45 The Five O'Clock Jobs System
33:43 Impact on Future Generations
34:26 Observations of College Students' Behavior
38:12 Relational Parenting
39:07 Balancing Connection and Consequences
41:54 Changing Parenting Discussions Across Generations
43:43 Creating Mama Systems
44:49 Customizing Mama Systems
49:22 Coaching and Personalized Support
52:44 Applying Systematic Thinking to Parenting
57:16 Emotional Attachment and Parenting
59:40 Outsourcing and Delegating Parenting Responsibilities
01:03:46 Offering a Free Chore E-Guide
01:05:58 Conclusion and Call to Action

Where to find Laura and Free Resources:
Free Resource: https://www.mamasystems.net/creating-chores
https://www.mamasystems.net/
https://www.instagram.com/mamasystems/
https://www.facebook.com/mamasystems.net
https://www.mamasystems.net/advocate-like-a-mama

Watch us on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@therelationalparentingpodcast/videos

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Happy Parenting and Good Luck Out There!

Creators & Guests

Host
Jennifer Hayes
Host
Rick Hayes
Guest
Laura Hernandez
Laura is a wife and mama to 10 amazing people. She is the founder of Mama Systems, a coaching business that helps mamas bring peace to their homes through systems so they can be intentional with their people and show up as the best mama possible.
Editor
Natalie Long

What is The Relational Parenting Podcast?

Welcome to the Relational Parenting Podcast! I’m Jennifer Hayes – a Parent Coach and 20 year Childcare Veteran. Each week I sit down with my own father (and cohost), Rick Hayes, and discuss the complicated issues that parents face today, as well as some of the oldest questions in the book. From the latest research and the framework of my Relational Parenting Method, we offer thought-provoking solutions to your deepest parenting struggles.
Relational Parenting is an evidence and experience based parenting method created by me - Jennie. After 20 years in the child care world, in every scenario you could possibly imagine, I realized one thing: EVERYONE was prioritizing the behavior and performance of a child over their emotional well-being. This frustrated me to no end and when I re-visited the latest research, I realized there was a better way. I started applying the principles I'd been learning in my own self-work, parent-child relationships, and partnerships, and I started gobbling up all the new research and books I could get my hands on. When I saw the results of putting these practices into play with the children I was taking care of - the difference in myself AND the kids I worked with was ASTOUNDING.
I am SO PROUD to be presenting Relational Parenting to the world. I can't wait to hear about your own journey. From Parents-to-be to the seasoned parenting veteran - there's something here for everyone!

Jennie (00:00.19)
all our time here. We had our countdown. I have three red buttons. Looks like we are good to go. All right. Welcome back everybody to the Relational Parenting Podcast. We are here this week with Laura Hernandez from Mama Systems. Welcome.

Laura (00:24.017)
Thank you. I'm excited to be here with you guys. This is gonna be fun.

Papa Rick (00:26.132)
Woohoo!

Jennie (00:26.614)
We are so excited to have you, yeah. Say hello, Papa Rick. Oh. Um.

Papa Rick (00:32.223)
Well hello, I said woohoo. Hahaha. Yeah, hi, it's so good to see you.

Jennie (00:40.182)
Yeah, so Laura, our guest this week, is here to chat about all these systems you came up with. I think every parent out there knows that it takes a lot to raise children, whether you have one or 10, like you have. And in order to keep things running and to make our environment less chaotic,

Papa Rick (00:59.77)
Oh my lord, yeah.

Jennie (01:08.426)
It helps to have some tips and tricks and systems in place. And it sounds like, Laura, you have quite the system in place. So you have 10 children total. Is that correct? That's amazing.

Laura (01:24.721)
That's right.

Papa Rick (01:25.831)
All kinds of ages, it looks like, from the pictures on the website.

Laura (01:29.797)
Yeah, our oldest is 17 and our youngest is four. So we kind of have a wide range of people in our home.

Jennie (01:36.85)
Yeah. What started you? Was organization and system something that you were already, like you already were interested in before you even had kids? Or was it something that was like sparked from the necessity of having, after having children?

Laura (01:56.057)
Yeah, it's kind of a combination of both. I think I've always liked things orderly and neat and in their place, right? I've always tended to be like that. I can think of times when I was a kid that was true. But then once, you know, after we had four kids and then I felt like I was doing great, you know, I really like had it down, really had the mom thing down. And then we had our fifth biological and we moved across the country to adopt three. And so, and like,

Jennie (02:01.578)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (02:23.331)
Hmm, interesting.

Laura (02:25.177)
six months, we went from four kids to eight kids in a different state and like all these, all these different things that were like so unraveling to me and just felt so unsettling. We were in a rental house, we had purchased this house, we were remodeling it and it felt chaotic. And I was finally, we got to, I was just living in survival mode, you know? We just gotta get to the end of the day. If I can get everybody in bed, we're like really killing it.

Papa Rick (02:33.676)
Yeah.

Jennie (02:46.933)
Right?

Laura (02:47.665)
But that's like a long time to just keep everybody alive. And so I finally said, you know, we've got to figure out something. We've got to do something. I can't live like this forever. And that's when I really started like searching hard for systems that worked for us. And everything that was out there, there wasn't anything that worked for our very large family that had special needs kids where some were going to school, some weren't. We're homeschooling some like. We were just all over the map and nobody had anything for families that were all over the map, like we were. And so.

Papa Rick (02:52.63)
Hahaha

Jennie (03:09.934)
Hmm.

Papa Rick (03:14.796)
Yeah.

Laura (03:16.397)
started the process of trying to figure out like what's really important to us, what really matters, how can we implement that and make that a priority and kind of that process I walk through is now when I get to help other moms walk through because no system like all my systems aren't going to work for you and your sweet new baby when it comes like we're just we're different we're all different our husbands are different our jobs are different our schedules our kids like everything about it and so that customization is kind of where the exciting part comes in because it's like a puzzle so.

Papa Rick (03:18.307)
Thanks for watching!

Jennie (03:31.265)
Yeah.

Jennie (03:37.486)
S.

Papa Rick (03:43.231)
Yeah. When you're explaining your system, you have to, you have to understand the underlying principle before you can adapt it to, you know, it's like, here's why we're doing this. What does that look like in your completely unique system that's similar to mine, but not precisely the same. Yeah. That's cool. That sounds, that sounds like it could keep you busy.

Jennie (03:44.531)
I love that.

Laura (04:04.098)
It does. It's really fun.

Jennie (04:06.55)
Well, and yeah, like you mentioned values. What's important to us? Because when you looked at all the other systems out there, maybe you could like pick a couple or one from here or there, but you guys had to really sit down and go, what are our values? What matters to us? What do we need to organize? And like, this is our schedule and this is like each kid has their own needs.

Um, and it's, that's hard when you have one, two, three, four kids, like, you know, trying to do that with 10, like you're, I would have to guess you're like a master organizer at this point. But, um, but, um, but going back to that values, that values based and, and being able to customize, um, your systems for anyone, I think is super important and super valuable.

Laura (05:01.593)
Yeah, and I think so often as moms, we live such reactionary lives. We're just kind of going from thing to thing. We as individuals in life really, not just moms, but it's so easy to just kind of deal with the next problem as it comes. But really that leads to chaos in us and chaos in our home and chaos with our kids. And so having that plan in place is it's just beautiful and sweet and how it all.

Jennie (05:06.081)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:06.892)
Yeah.

Jennie (05:10.409)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (05:11.203)
Sure.

Laura (05:26.501)
works itself out. I'm not saying things are perfect by any stretch of the imagination. Like we know crap is going to happen and we know these things. But I at least know I have a plan for like talking about priorities. One of the things I were people of faith and one of the things I'll be like, yes, this is the most important thing. And you would come into my house and you'd be like, I don't see that at all. How is it important to you? Like just totally missing the boat on it, you know? And so when you know that's a priority and that's what I want to say yes to, it makes everything else easier to say no to.

Papa Rick (05:31.787)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:46.466)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (05:55.043)
There you go. Priorities is important. It takes me back to like, uh, farm families, you know, farm people on the prairies would have large families, right? You know, it was kind of a business unit and that, and that requires a certain amount of, uh, that requires a system of some kind so that everybody knows what they're doing, you know, any organization, any intentionality you can bring into the system on purpose instead of being reactionary that

Jennie (05:56.382)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (06:23.239)
That pays dividends down the road, you know, that comes back with interest because there's going to be a lot of interruptions with 10, 12 people in a room. And yeah, good for you. I'm anxious to learn how you bring order to all that with 10 kids.

Laura (06:44.018)
Yeah.

Jennie (06:45.986)
So with your, you know, once you decided, you know, we need these systems, we're putting them in place, do you feel like you truly are a lot less reactionary around the home and do you feel like that has affected your parenting?

Laura (07:06.589)
million percent. I think that an example I often give and this may seem like a little much to throw this out there but it's to show you that we don't have it all together in our home. We're not all walking around like the little halos over our head right? We're working and we're a hot mess up.

Jennie (07:08.223)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (07:21.783)
Mm-hmm. Really? Huh.

Jennie (07:21.956)
Your normal people, yeah.

Laura (07:24.717)
And I think so often people are like, oh, you must be so organized and so patient. So I'm like, I'm also a human. So thank you. That's why I'm telling you this story. But with our, with our three that have, um, I don't know if I set this on the recording yet, but our three adopted buddies all have fetal alcohol spectrum disorder, and that is a very hard disorder to live with, and there's a lot of aggression and there's a lot of. They feel chaotic and it comes out.

Jennie (07:31.57)
Right?

Papa Rick (07:34.593)
Yeah.

Laura (07:53.381)
on everyone and everything. And so I think that especially with that going on in our home, having these systems in place, like having a laundry day and knowing laundry is gonna get taken care of and knowing I have a meal for that night. And I know that like I have all these things in place. When something goes down, like let's just say a child threw a brick through a window, just saying might happen, that happens. I can stop and go like really deal with the issue and not...

Jennie (07:55.109)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (08:15.287)
Wow.

Jennie (08:22.679)
Mmm.

Laura (08:23.793)
I mean, I, there's part of me that's like, oh my gosh, what are we doing? Like there's a part, it's chaotic, right? I get that. We just broke glass all over the place. But then I'm able to go figure out what's going on with him and really connect with him and relationally attach and try to make that better and try to heal whatever is, whatever stirred up in him that's causing him to act that way. We're able then to communicate on that level. And it takes it out of, oh my gosh, I have so much to do right now. I've got to go cook dinner. I've got to like, I've got to go start laundry. I've got to go like.

Jennie (08:28.853)
Right.

Papa Rick (08:53.005)
Yeah.

Laura (08:54.246)
All those to-do lists, it's like, no, it's okay. Those are going to wait and that's okay. Like I've, we've got that.

Papa Rick (08:58.507)
They're not all waiting for your fingers to make it happen. You've got people. Nice, nice.

Laura (09:04.773)
Yes, that's it.

Jennie (09:08.494)
That's so, I think that's such a huge part of what gets in the way or what can get in the way of, you know, this either relational parenting, intentional parenting, people call it a lot of things, is that chaos, is that reactionary way of living. And I mean, we all do it, we all slip into it at some point during our days, weeks and months together, because like you said, we're human, but

I think living part of like what you've created with mama systems is intention. You've created a very intentional environment for your home. And so when something does go wrong, it's like, well, your body, right? Because we go into a physiological response when we react like that. So it's physiological and then it's emotional and then it comes out verbally.

When your body and your mind know that there are systems in place and everything's going to get done and you can rely on one another if something goes wrong, then your nervous system is literally more capable of taking a deep breath and just dealing with the present moment without feeling like you have to rush through it or dismiss your child and just go to your room. I'm cooking dinner. I can't deal with you right now.

Yeah, I love this. And I think that having some semblance of systems going on in the household can contribute greatly to an intentional family and a relational household.

Laura (10:50.221)
Yeah, I could not agree more. And I think that often people ask like, what's a system? Like, what are you talking about? And I kind of see it as like anything that we can take off our plate mentally, like to lessen that decision fatigue so that we can show up and be our best selves with our kids. Cause it's all those decisions, all those things all throughout the day that you're just, by bedtime I'm done and like, I can't handle any of your fits. I can't handle that. You're just done, right? But if you've had like 10, I mean,

Papa Rick (10:56.905)
Exactly.

Jennie (11:01.091)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (11:05.463)
Sinclair.

Laura (11:19.213)
We make something like 50,000 decisions a day. So I don't know. But if we can lessen that by 10,000 and we know what we're going to wear on Monday morning and we know how groceries are going to get to our house and we don't have to make all those decisions while we're at the grocery store. But we have things in place to take that off our plate. We have kids helping in the house. We've built this team mentality. Oh my goodness. Like it's just so freeing and so much lighter. And so that's why I'm like the biggest.

Jennie (11:22.051)
Right?

Laura (11:47.953)
I'm just the biggest fan of systems. I know it sounds really cheesy and really corny, but they've brought me so much life just that I'm able to show up and connect with my people.

Papa Rick (11:53.697)
Yeah.

Jennie (11:54.154)
Yes.

Papa Rick (11:57.215)
No, that's it. It's great. You found that they teach that kind of stuff in the military leadership where you boil, you boil your principles down so that when things do go crazy, when the bombs start to fall or whatever your particular situational chaos is that decisions are easier to make. Okay. When we're doing this, we need these three things. What are these three things? You're not trying to boil it all down in the moment, you know, and it sounds like you've come on the same kind of, come upon the same kind of thing.

Jennie (11:57.322)
Yes.

Papa Rick (12:27.339)
Yourself developed it yourself. So yay, yay for you. That's in the midst of all the chaos coming up with the system of systems. That's great. That's phenomenal.

Jennie (12:41.974)
I think that decision fatigue and overwhelm are probably two of the most common words I hear come out of mom's mouth. Usually moms, not going to lie. I'm sure dads feel it too. It's usually moms that I hear it from. And we all experience decision fatigue, no matter whether you have kids or not. Everybody is like you said, I think it's like 50 or 60,000 decisions a day or something. And so anything that you can systematize so that you're not having to constantly

make that decision all the time would be a huge help. But something else that you said is that you've created a household of teamwork. And that's one of our biggest principles here with relational parenting is that it's not, we don't want to set up the family as mom and dad versus the kids or mom and mom or dad and dad or whatever your family looks like. But parents

Laura (13:21.193)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (13:38.723)
in some cases.

Jennie (13:42.218)
everything falls on the parents' shoulders, and you've just got to get the kids to do what you need them to do all day, every day. And you're constantly managing behaviors and are fixing something. But creating this household of teamwork where the kids have input and the kids help and they have responsibilities of their own and things like that. So I'm curious, is that something that you guys...

Papa Rick (14:01.899)
Responsibility, yeah.

Jennie (14:09.414)
started like from the get-go you knew that's what you wanted to do when you started a family or is that something that came along later as you started to systematize things?

Laura (14:18.681)
I think that I read this book called Cleaning House by Kay Wyma and she's a lovely lady. And she talks about this 12 month experiment that she did with her kids and teaching them how to do things so that when they left the house they knew how to throw a party they knew how to do their laundry like she's like I don't even know if they had know how to wash their sheets like that. Yeah, things like that you're like oh okay. I never thought to teach my kids that but I do want them to know that and so that just kind of got the wheels turning a little bit of like wanting to give them more.

Papa Rick (14:35.819)
Hospitality, yeah, good.

Laura (14:47.621)
responsibility in our home. Um, and I think that it really. Became more necessary when, when we had so many little people, um, for, and we have five kids, four and under all in diapers. And it was a lot. And so we had our, our big, I'm like quoting our big kids who were. Eight, six, and five at the time. Those were our big kids are big helpers. Um, and they were.

Papa Rick (15:03.773)
Oh my.

Jennie (15:04.107)
Yeah.

Laura (15:15.985)
they each had a buddy team that they were responsible for. And this is not like we put our five-year-old in charge of parenting. Do not hear me say that, please. But.

Papa Rick (15:22.743)
Oh, that's another one of our favorite words. That's good. Yeah. Good.

Jennie (15:23.142)
Hehe

Laura (15:26.577)
Yeah, so like, no, but when we're leaving the house, I need you to help me find Andrew's shoes. Like that's important. And that's just one of those things that they're helping in that process, right? And so it's just kind of narrowed down for them of who they're helping get out the door and who they're helping buckle in the car. So again, that's not a decision I have to make and we don't have to argue about it because expectations have been set. And so that's kind of led to like, okay, well, what do I want my kids to be like when they leave the house? What do I want them to know how to do? I want them to know how to clean up the room.

Jennie (15:32.232)
Mmm, yeah.

Papa Rick (15:32.373)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (15:35.9)
Yeah.

Jennie (15:40.844)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (15:52.927)
Yeah, what am I raising here? Yeah, yeah, great.

Laura (15:57.061)
Yeah, I think we've all had those roommates that are less than wonderful to live with. I don't know if they were kind of me. I had a roommate. I had a roommate one time where I opened the cabinets and there was a bowl of cereal and milk in there. I was like, oh, I don't know. Everything was just, it's just like, and I think she probably had ADD and, lovely, lovely lady. I just.

Jennie (16:05.015)
Yes.

Papa Rick (16:05.439)
How diplomatic of you, yes.

Jennie (16:19.863)
Yeah.

Laura (16:25.737)
There were things like that where I was like, what is going on here? Like, why don't we? So I don't want my kids to be the roommate that other people are like, oh my gosh, what have I done? You know? This is my main goal in life is to raise a roommate that people aren't regretting. Not really, but I do want them to know how to be good roommates because they are gonna be living with, I mean, not only in our home, but when they get married, when they go off to college, like all these things, that they're gonna be living with other people.

Papa Rick (16:27.915)
Yeah.

Jennie (16:31.923)
Yeah.

Jennie (16:36.468)
Right?

Papa Rick (16:36.523)
Yeah, exactly, exactly.

Papa Rick (16:47.867)
If you want to have relationships, yeah, here's some not to do's, you know, don't leave your cereal leaving around, laying around in a cabinet. Wow. That's pretty crazy.

Laura (16:53.554)
Yes.

Jennie (16:55.694)
to rot.

Papa Rick (17:00.863)
Yeah. And it's best to teach them intentionally, like you do it, you know, to have that in mind, you know, when you're talking, when you're dealing with them. That's a great, that's a great, uh, that's a great goal. That's great priority.

Laura (17:01.305)
Yeah, so things like that.

Laura (17:14.397)
So those are things we call roommate responsibilities in our house. And in the morning and in the evening, everybody has a roommate responsibility. And that typically looks like in the morning, you're getting yourself dressed and you're like, we very early on or like you're getting yourself dressed like at age two. You can you can do this. You can put on your pants. Here's how we do it. Sit down. Let's know which, you know, if you looked at some pictures, you'd be like, yeah, they clearly pick out their own clothes, right?

Papa Rick (17:17.687)
Okay.

Jennie (17:18.221)
Ooh.

Papa Rick (17:35.019)
Picking out your own clothes and stuff, huh? Okay, cool.

Papa Rick (17:43.228)
Absolutely.

Laura (17:44.761)
They put on things I'm like, oh my gosh, but I don't have the energy to fight that like us not a battle I'm willing to fight. So

Jennie (17:48.819)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (17:49.771)
That's what their friends are for. You know, what'd you wear those socks with it? Yeah.

Laura (17:52.293)
Yes, like hopefully, hopefully you'll be dead. Yeah, so taking care of themselves, eating breakfast, putting their bowl in the sink, brushing their teeth, like little things like that, that you're like, no, I just want you to know how to do that. You need to get up and do that. And then at the end of the day is kind of where that teamwork mentality comes in. And for us, it looks like five o'clock jobs is what we call it in our home, because we have an alarm go off at five o'clock. And this is partly because I will sometimes forget.

Papa Rick (18:09.409)
Yeah.

Laura (18:21.225)
that I need to cook dinner for everybody. Just, it'll just the day will go and it'll be like six or seven. I'm like, oh my gosh, I haven't fed anybody and it's time for bed and what are we doing here? And I need to go make dinner. And so that five o'clock alarm just kind of helps me stay on track with our day. And while I'm...

Jennie (18:25.951)
Yeah.

Yeah.

Jennie (18:37.678)
That's a system. That's one thing, one last thing you don't have to remember.

Papa Rick (18:41.163)
What to expect, you know what to expect.

Laura (18:41.201)
Yeah, while I'm cooking dinner, yeah, everybody else is has a job that they're in charge of. And so they're supposed to make their lunch and lay out their clothes. So they have a job to get ready for the next day, whatever that entails for that kid. And then to help with dinner. So that could be watching the baby while I'm cooking or setting out silverware, like even our we had a two year old, he would go and put forks on the table and he loved it. Like he loved being a part of the team because he had a job and that felt important to him.

Papa Rick (19:06.847)
Yeah.

Jennie (19:08.278)
Yes.

Laura (19:10.749)
Great.

Jennie (19:12.878)
Say that again, say it again. Ha ha.

Papa Rick (19:14.327)
Raise them upright. That's right.

Laura (19:14.517)
I'm inspired and it's so great. Yeah, because they get to, like it's just what we do in our home. Like there's no questions about it. This is the expectation that you're a Hernandez and you're gonna act like a Hernandez and we're gonna be a team and we're gonna do this. So getting ready for the next day, helping get ready for dinner and then everybody has a zone that they're in charge of. And this is one of the fun things. I really feel like this has helped with the team mentality because regardless of if you made the mess in the living room, if your zone is the living room, I expect you to clean the living room.

Papa Rick (19:33.185)
soon.

Laura (19:43.837)
Like we're, I don't care that you didn't make it a mess. Like we're looking out for each other. She's over there cleaning up a mess that she didn't make, right? Like, so we're all doing this together. We all have jobs and they may not seem fair, but we all have jobs and we're gonna do them and we're gonna show up, you know? So.

Papa Rick (19:44.107)
Uh, okay. Ownership. Yeah.

Papa Rick (19:51.618)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (20:00.407)
That is great. That's great for life going forward. You know, you're always cleaning up somebody else's mess in life. You know, get used to it. Someday you'll get paid for it more.

Laura (20:06.949)
Yeah, I'm not happy about it. But you do anyway.

Jennie (20:13.27)
Well, and even in like your, like when you have your own household or, you know, roommates, unfortunately, or you get married, you know, there's a lot of, of prevention of unnecessary, you know, squabbling if you walk into a living situation, knowing that you may be cleaning up someone else's mess every once in a while.

and that they are going to clean up yours. Like, I mean, couples fight over who does the dishes more, who does this, who left this, and, you know, socks on the floor and this, you know. And so, so many little like squabbles, specifically in romantic relationships can be avoided if we're both contributing to picking up each other's messes when we have the time. And of course, not making the messes unnecessarily,

We are human and we do those things. And so I think I love the zone. I love all of this, but the zone thing, I think I have only very recently learned about that as a tactic for when you have kids making the chore. Part of the chore list obviously has to be age appropriate for each individual child, but then putting...

someone in the family, however many people are in your family, in charge of one area of the house. And then it like, the one, the thing that I read was like that it rotates then like every week, week. Um, so like I might be in charge of the bathrooms one week and my husband might be in charge of the kitchen for one week. And then any kids that we have, you know, someone's in charge of the living room, someone's in charge of the dining room, someone's in charge of their bedroom or whatever. And then the

The thing is that you just tell them, like, anytime you see that there is a mess, it's your responsibility to tidy that room. And that takes the burden off of the parents to constantly be scanning the environment for things that might need cleaned up or put back or whatever, and then having to pick a child to ask or coerce.

Jennie (22:38.398)
or convince into like cleaning it up or arguing, you know, all of the things that can go into that. And it puts the accountability on the child. And that accountability can be taught at such a young age that I don't think people realize often. And it makes them feel, it makes them feel, like you said, your two-year-old putting forks on the table.

Papa Rick (22:53.367)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (22:57.335)
The accountability in.

Papa Rick (23:02.253)
Yes.

Jennie (23:03.314)
It makes them feel powerful and included and like they're contributing. Yeah.

Papa Rick (23:05.667)
part of the team. Yeah, yeah, that's great. You get both sides of it. It's not just a, hey, I told you to do that last week and you didn't do it. It's a like, hey, we're all doing this, you forgot or whatever. And you get the responsibility, you get the good feeling from helping the team out, doing your part as well as the accountability. That's very cool.

Laura (23:30.713)
Yeah, it's a beautiful thing whenever when everything's working as it should, you know, I do

if I can recommend that we not switch jobs all the time, like on that week by week basis. Because what I've found with moms is that, I think if it's just between you and your spouse and you're switching who does the kitchen, who does the bathrooms, awesome. But I think when you're getting kids involved, then you are now in charge of figuring that out, switching out jobs, moving the chore wheel, doing the... Yeah, and then I go into the living room, I'm like, but who's in charge of it this week? And what am I, what?

Jennie (23:41.666)
Yeah.

Okay.

Jennie (24:02.87)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (24:02.907)
Supervising, rotating, sure.

Jennie (24:09.102)
Hmm

Laura (24:10.225)
Right. You know, that was me last week. So what are you like? It's just so much. And you're having all these conversations about it. And then, you know, I did that last week. There's arguing and amongst parents and amongst kids about things not being fair and how, you know, just all the things. And so if we can just set it once and say like, hey, your job is this and leave it. So I know when I walk into the living room, if there are blankets and pillows on the floor, Sam.

Jennie (24:14.274)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (24:21.091)
Sure.

Jennie (24:21.311)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (24:24.791)
Fairness, yeah. Oh.

Jennie (24:33.185)
Yes.

Laura (24:38.081)
you please come tidy up the living room like done. That's it. I know it's Sam.

Papa Rick (24:40.235)
Yeah. That expectation you set where, yeah, I know maybe it is sometimes not perfectly fair. Things are not in perfect balance. There's some, you know, you have to learn to play around and if it gets way too unfair, that's fine, you know? But sometimes it's not perfectly fair. That's not, that's not for discussion. Move on. Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (24:43.47)
Perfect.

Laura (25:04.029)
That's not the goal here. Now, I think that one of the things I've heard and what I kind of believed when I was wanting to do that and switch out things, I'm like, well, I want them to all know how to clean the toilets. So we're gonna switch that out every week. Like you want your kids to know these things, but there are seasons where you can train them in those things and there are seasons when you can switch things up. But I think just the switching on a weekly basis make it confusing for them expectation wise,

Papa Rick (25:15.686)
Yeah.

Jennie (25:23.182)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (25:30.848)
Yeah.

Laura (25:33.085)
the system gets dropped because it became too complicated and too hard to manage.

Papa Rick (25:35.679)
Yeah.

Jennie (25:36.311)
Yeah.

No, I love that. That's a great tip. Mine was, I just like anecdotally watched a video. So this is good though to like, because you've been doing it for a long time, right?

Laura (25:48.201)
And I'm sure she had some wonderful, like, that may be working in her home and maybe she has the bandwidth to do that, but.

Jennie (25:55.123)
You're like, I don't. That's another decision I can just take off my plate.

Papa Rick (25:55.171)
That's it. Got to match our bandwidths. Yeah, that's a good thought.

Jennie (26:06.928)
So what is your favorite system that you have come up with in your own home?

Laura (26:16.881)
I think that five o'clock jobs is my favorite. Simply because it is that teamwork mentality. I think I used to go from being in the kitchen, like annoyed that the house was a disaster after I cleaned it all day. The house is a mess, they're watching TV. I asked somebody to help and then I get arguing. Like, there's just something about that just fires me up and then makes me in there. I'm like beating eggs, ticked off and whatever. But if I am making dinner and...

Jennie (26:19.691)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (26:41.189)
Yeah.

Laura (26:45.265)
We don't have the TV on and people are helping and they're being a part of the team. There's just something beautiful and peaceful and wonderful about that. That's so opposite and so polarized from that bitter, angry lady of that. I'm doing everything by myself that we're now doing all together.

Papa Rick (26:52.29)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (27:01.031)
Changes your role. Yeah, if everybody's up and moving and they know they're supposed to be up and moving, they're kids, maybe they forget, maybe it's not perfect, but that's real family. That's a great healthy family dynamic. Where were you when I was 23 having kids? That's so great. Wish I'd have known that.

Laura (27:23.769)
I think you did okay.

Jennie (27:31.29)
Um, I lost what I was going to say, but, uh, it came back. So the, I love the five o'clock alarm, um, because it, it's, it's just, it's like, uh, um, it's just a signal to the whole family up it's five o'clock at five o'clock, this is what we do. Um, so there's no, like, there's no.

arguing, there's no room for negotiating. There's like the whole family is doing this thing at five. And that's part of teamwork too. Just like if you play a sport in high school, everybody's running laps together. Everybody's doing the sucky part of practice together and everyone's doing the chores at 5 p.m. And...

And it also, the other piece of what you said is that bitterness that we did an episode on mom rage a long time ago. And because again, more often than not, it's the women in the home who are handling the mental load and they're the ones scanning the environment and seeing the 800 million things that need to get done and feeling alone.

Papa Rick (28:35.095)
presentment.

Jennie (28:55.602)
in doing so and feeling like they are the managers of the house and their spouse and kids are like their little delegating employees that they have to constantly be keeping track of and assigning things to. And that can be, that can feel so lonely, right? And then eventually turned into like bitterness or resentment. And then you become not your best self and you become more reactive and more resentful and

Papa Rick (29:02.946)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (29:24.426)
and angry towards your kids and all of these things. And I think that another beautiful part of this systematizing your household is that it takes the pressure off of you, the mom or the parent or whoever, you know, whoever's carrying that load most of the time. It delegates it once.

Laura (29:44.681)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (29:54.318)
and then you don't have to keep track of it anymore, ideally. You know, it's not a perfect world, but.

Papa Rick (29:59.359)
You monitor, you don't have to hover. Yeah, to make sure it gets done.

Jennie (30:03.394)
But then you've got people in the house who understand how much work it takes to run this household and how many things there are going on all the time. And then you raised little humans who grow up to be big humans who go out into the world and know how to manage and contribute instead of expecting things to just be done for them. I mean, I go back to the roommate thing. I lived with...

Papa Rick (30:27.299)
Hehehe

Jennie (30:33.806)
I think for like three or four years, back in my 20s. And I mean, I had them all. I had all the roommates. I had wonderful roommates and I had horrible roommates. I had to evict people. I mean, but I mean, there are people in this world who grow up and they didn't learn anything, you know? And they just sit around and they're,

their bedroom just becomes like a trash pit because they never had to clean their own room or take out the trash or anything. And they literally, they don't see it. That's the insane thing is they don't even see it. Like you say like, hey, like there's trash everywhere in your room. And they're just like, huh? Like, what? Like how do you, because they, but you think like 3D reality.

Papa Rick (31:27.755)
They don't care.

Jennie (31:32.714)
Everyone can see there's trash on the floor, right? But they can't, not everyone can. And it's just insane to me because they just ignored it their whole life because someone would come along and do it for them.

Papa Rick (31:45.827)
Yeah. There's a great, uh, not to get too far off track, but that's, I guess what I do. The there's a great YouTube video out there of a guy sitting on the couch and, and telling his girlfriend about this magic table he's got where he takes his clothes and he throws things on the magic table and poof, they end up in his drawers of clean and folded, you know, and his wife is about to start beating on him. It's yeah.

that can happen if we don't, if we're not trained from a young age and don't grow a little bit as we go. I've been guilty of letting, as a bachelor, in a bachelor pad, letting trash pile up myself. That's very true. She was describing me. We were making eye contact there.

Jennie (32:32.846)
Hmm.

Laura (32:35.489)
She's totally bulging you right now.

Jennie (32:42.126)
No, I wasn't. Purposefully I was, I was thinking of someone out here in Colorado. I had forgotten about your tendency to let. Yeah.

Papa Rick (32:46.934)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (32:51.423)
I was depressed. I was depressed and that kind of stuff too. But yeah, I've had roommates like that too. Working, uh, used to work, go away for weeks at a time to work. And we'd be in hotels together with people you've worked with, not necessarily people you knew, you know, and you find out who would leave their stinky socks laying around on the counters and stuff. It was, roomating is a good education and it's, and this kind of stuff prepares you to get out there and

Laura (33:05.008)
Oh, wow.

Papa Rick (33:19.955)
I don't know, relate, be part of the system. You know, your kids are gonna be terrors when they go out there and reorganize the world. You know, the families, the fallout from what you're sending out into the world is just fantastic, you know. You're gonna affect millions of people over the next three or four generations.

Laura (33:43.957)
I hope that's the case. That sounds amazing. I fear, like, that's what part of it's like, I see all these entitled kids that everything should be just given to me and done for me. And I shouldn't have to pay for college education. And of course the government should be, well, I'll back it up there because I probably shouldn't jump on that. But I'm sorry.

Papa Rick (33:45.035)
Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (33:58.647)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (34:02.123)
That's all right. Be good for comments.

Laura (34:05.469)
Yeah, so sorry, I just said that on here. I just feel like there's the generation that's like coming out into the world, I'm like, oh my gosh, what are we doing? Like everything can't be done for you. Like we've got to be responsible for ourselves and our actions and our ourselves. My goodness gracious. So that gets me all fired up. We can change the subject. I'm sorry.

Jennie (34:07.47)
That's okay.

Papa Rick (34:26.315)
That no, that's good. That sounds good to me. I don't know where Jenny wants the conversation to go, but I remember having an experience taking, going to visit my first kid in college in a dorm full of. Early twenties kids sitting around and kinda, and being appalled at how they were behaving when on their own, you know, it's like you guys should know how to behave better than this.

in your own tribe, you know? And...

Papa Rick (35:00.847)
and it's only... well maybe that's part of the point but still they are when I was a kid.

Jennie (35:01.314)
I don't expect much from college-aged people.

Jennie (35:06.838)
Like, college students are often just drinking and acting like idiots because they're on their own for the first time.

Papa Rick (35:11.843)
It was amazing. Yeah, I was I was amazed.

Jennie (35:16.49)
Was it because you were in the room, you were shocked that they were acting like that with like an adult in the room? A real adult?

Papa Rick (35:20.519)
No, it was a big, it was like wings of a dorm and there was a big common area and you could see eight or 10 rooms and what was going on. And it was just like, it was like walking into a nursery school where the teachers were out having a meeting and the kids were just, you know, guys whizz by on skateboards. And it's like, oh my God, I expected better of a bunch of young gentlemen.

Jennie (35:36.886)
Mm-mm.

Jennie (35:49.96)
on a college dorm.

Papa Rick (35:50.887)
That was, yeah, it was not like my college dorm, but we were, we were not exactly model citizens, but we were quieter anyway. Not so much stuff.

Jennie (36:02.122)
No, but I really, I actually love this topic Laura, because I, and we've, we kind of dabble in it in our last few episodes, actually. We talk about the generational differences. I'm a millennial. I, are you a millennial or are you Gen X?

Papa Rick (36:11.223)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (36:14.955)
Okay.

Laura (36:20.617)
I think I'm technically a millennial. I think I was like that. I was an 82, so.

Papa Rick (36:24.439)
Yeah, there's that borderline area. Yeah.

Jennie (36:25.299)
You're like on that cusp. Yeah.

Laura (36:27.405)
I feel like I don't feel like I am by any stretch of the imagination, but technically I am.

Jennie (36:31.63)
I know, yeah. And then my dad is a boomer, like, but barely. And so, so we, we do, that's one of the great things about this podcast is we get to talk about across generations, like how things have changed. And I think that from the boomer age where it was children are to be seen and not heard or not speak unless spoken to, to Gen Z.

Papa Rick (36:36.491)
A late, a late boomer, yeah.

Papa Rick (36:54.996)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (37:00.33)
where now it's like everything I say is important and everyone should listen to me. Like we're on this podcast, we're trying to find this like middle ground. And I think things are starting to swing back towards a more balanced perspective on parenting where, where

Children are important. Children should need to have a voice. Children need to be respected. Children have big feelings and need to be lovingly walked through and guided through those feelings and acknowledged. But I think that what we lost along the way is that children also need structure and discipline and good role models and leaders and good habits and to learn how to take care of a household, not just be put in front of a TV.

while someone else takes care of the household for them. Like I think there was a mix up somewhere along the way where we went from all the way over here and we swung all the way over here. And now we're like, oh my God, what have we done? And we're trying to get back to this place in the middle. And that's one of the reasons that I named what I do relational parenting.

Papa Rick (38:12.205)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (38:22.73)
It has a lot of similarities to gentle parenting. There's a lot of words, conscious parenting, intentional parenting, mindful parenting, like all the different words. But none of them sat quite right with me until I found the word relational. And for me, relational means the ups and the downs, the good and the bad. Like.

Like not everything is not rainbows and sunshine and perfect and everything is not terrible and hard all the time. But you can't have one without the other and you have to learn how to navigate both in order to be a whole human being who can function in the world.

Laura (39:07.621)
Yeah, it's like the both and of life. And so yeah, thinking about like what you just said, like yes, connecting with your kids and having that relational conversation and getting the why behind behavior and all of that. And there are consequences to actions. Like and there's, like and you have to be respectful. We're going to be respectful in this home and we're not going to talk to each other that way and you can't talk to your parents that way. And yes, what you have to say is valuable and this other piece, right? So they're.

Papa Rick (39:10.731)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (39:26.476)
Mm-hmm.

Laura (39:37.641)
marrying of the two is the sweet spot where I feel like we really need to be.

Jennie (39:43.562)
And it's the hardest spot as parents. That's the hardest place to be. It'd be a lot easier if we just let our kids do whatever they wanted, or if we just told our kids to shut up all the time and obey, those are both much easier.

Laura (39:56.656)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (39:58.596)
That's why I like this podcast. We, your generation, when I was talking to your friends who had all gathered for your wedding, I was struck by how much the things they were talking about, mental health and parenting and things that we did not, I did not talk about as we, you know, as part of that generation years ago, their parents would get together and we'd have kids and we would talk about things to do to kids.

but we were not really talking about parenting styles and priorities and how do we get them to be good citizens later on and know how to be a positive part of a relationship. It was, they were different kinds of discussions. And it was kind of like, you know, don't spank them, don't, you know, don't punish kids. Or my mother used to tell me, put a sweater on, I'm cold. You know, it was just like, do what I tell you to do.

kind of thing, kind of parenting, you kind of go authoritarian or the other way. There was very little, what you're talking about, you know, the, the fact that there are pendulum swings between, you know, from, as from generation to generation, you know, you see a bunch of title entitled kids and I always have to go back and say, let me talk to their parents. I'd like to get to know their parents a little bit because they didn't get that way all by themselves, hopefully, you know, unless they were just raised by wolves.

And to see how one generation sees how the last couple generations did it and I think the discussion the fact that you're having the discussion in this generation is a good thing because I think we didn't Maybe have those discussions Didn't know how or didn't think of it or whatever In prior generations, I have high hopes for you guys changing the world effectively. I guess it's where I'm headed It's nice to hear you

to have the conversations and figure it out. Be willing to say I don't know and talk to people and figure things out.

Laura (42:03.133)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (42:03.587)
Hmm

Jennie (42:08.263)
I think we have access to a lot more information than you guys did when you were becoming parents. And I think that there's a lot more, there are many more topics that are less taboo. And I think people, you know, I think 30 plus, 35 to 40 years ago when you started having kids.

Papa Rick (42:13.216)
Yeah, the internet helped.

Papa Rick (42:22.627)
Hmm.

Jennie (42:33.354)
There is probably a lot more like playing your cards close to your chest. There's a lot less vulnerability inside of friend groups. There was a lot more surface, surface topic conversations. And, and I, and I think, you know, because of the age of information, now that we have the worldwide web.

Papa Rick (42:41.783)
Stigma.

Jennie (42:57.874)
I think that more people are aware of more things and that's one thing that we have been given that's positive from that is that we are more exposed to different topics and then able to engage in conversation with one another about them and go deeper. There are a lot of pitfalls to social media, but.

Papa Rick (43:16.832)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (43:21.091)
I was just going to say, an upside of social media, finally, that's not making kids crazy.

Jennie (43:28.598)
But Laura, you, so you started making these systems just for your own household. What brought on the idea for you to create mama systems and to start to teach other people how to do this?

Papa Rick (43:43.787)
Yeah, yeah.

Laura (43:45.765)
Yeah, I had a friend who was really struggling with her schedule and she had a kid that was newly diagnosed with some things and she was talking about the doctor's appointments and the therapy appointments and all these things. And I was like, Oh, I got this. Let me come up with a schedule for you. And like, we'll figure it out and we'll figure out who's driving who and when we're, you know, all the things. And it was so fun. I had so much fun doing it, like getting all of her information, like putting it all together just because that was easy for me. Right? Like that was, I was, it was easy. One and two was like a finite like.

Papa Rick (44:05.923)
Ha ha ha.

Jennie (44:06.06)
Um, yeah.

Papa Rick (44:09.824)
Yeah, yeah.

Laura (44:14.921)
here it is, it's a complete project, right? And I'm a three on the Enneagram, so I'm an achiever and I like things done. I like to complete things and a lot of times the hurricane is not complete, like it's not done. It's just forever, forever and ever. And so I really like the idea of like handing somebody a complete system and completeness that will have a real effect on them and you can see the piece that comes from that. And so...

I just found so much joy in that. And after a few friends, I was like, I think I want to do this. And so I started Mama Systems from there.

Jennie (44:49.454)
Awesome.

Papa Rick (44:50.403)
pressure application.

Papa Rick (44:54.539)
You know, and people talk about different people have different skills, you know, and you happen to be, you know, a very organized and effective at passing it on, teaching it or, you know, applying it. And it just takes all kinds of skills. I guess it goes back to the takes a village kind of thing. We were in my generation, we all were a little careful about reaching out and revealing we were not the best organizers and not the best at this and not the best at that and the ability to come together.

Good for you. Yeah. 18. Yeah.

Laura (45:24.665)
Yeah, it's beautiful when we can kind of step into those roles, like fully in ourselves and realizing who we are and what like we're called to and to be able to share that with others. And then to reciprocate that and say, Hey, I'm not great at this. Can you help me with this? Those are beautiful things. And they really create a great intimacy between our friendships.

Papa Rick (45:28.812)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (45:40.512)
Yeah, yeah.

Papa Rick (45:46.245)
Yeah, but...

Jennie (45:47.634)
Yeah. I think that's something else that's kind of coming back around maybe from not even any generation that's sitting here, but just an older way of living life where neighbors helped each other and communities were smaller and more intimate and people had different skills and would trade on skills instead of...

Papa Rick (46:08.695)
Small town life, yeah.

Jennie (46:17.718)
um, always like just, you know, I mean, hiring a service, you know, that's what we have now. But, but anyway, I think that since 2020, not, I think there've been studies done since 2020 and the pandemic and so many businesses shutting down and, um, and things people had to find, a lot of people had to find a new way of, of contributing to the world, um, and earning an

of people, there is a skyrocket in entrepreneurs all over the place. And I don't know, I don't know what year you started mama systems, but, but I think a lot of the entrepreneurs that I talk to and, and have relationships with now are they, the pandemic forced them to pause and look at their life and they met, whether they got laid off or their office shut down for a while, it forced people to kind of be like,

look around and be like, oh, we need each other. And also, am I actually doing something that I care about? Or could I live a more happy, satisfied, fulfilling life doing something that I love and look at my own skills and how can I contribute to the world in the highest, best way? And so I think that there's a reemergence.

Papa Rick (47:37.276)
Mm-hmm.

Jennie (47:42.878)
of entrepreneurship, but entrepreneurship based on community and giving back and helping each other.

Papa Rick (47:51.083)
your contribution. What's my place in this group of people I find myself in? What do I have to contribute?

Laura (47:59.877)
Yeah, yeah, it started in 2018. So it's before the pandemic. But I do think it's a beautiful, like even in our friend group of like seeing this need and being like, oh, I can help with that. I know how to, I know how to serve you in that way. And that's not only life-giving for me, but it's life-giving for them too. So.

Papa Rick (48:18.487)
Yeah, yeah, part of the body.

Jennie (48:23.778)
So you, I just had another question and it just disappeared.

Laura (48:32.005)
that baby.

Papa Rick (48:33.547)
the miracle of loading her little brain up, you know, grabbing a thought when it goes by. I like that one, mommy.

Jennie (48:33.942)
It is. She's stealing everything. She steals my brain.

Jennie (48:47.899)
Just checking out my notes here.

Jennie (48:53.754)
Oh, so how, so you mentioned customization early on in the conversation. Um, how does your, you know, the way that you teach, um, one, is it an, is it an, uh, a course that's prerecorded? Um, do you work with people one-on-one at all, or individually like have like phone sessions with people? Like, how do you take what you do and customize it for an individual?

Laura (49:22.873)
Yeah, so I do have a master course. And that kind of walks you through the whole process without me there. It's like pre-recorded videos and worksheets and homework and all of that jazz, right? But then the most fun for me is coaching one-on-one, because I get to know the mom and I get to know the families. And we build this relationship. Yeah, it's this beautiful thing that we can then tie this all.

Papa Rick (49:39.956)
application.

Jennie (49:43.628)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (49:46.283)
You can read a book on neurosurgery, but you kind of want to coach when you actually start doing it, right?

Laura (49:52.977)
Yes, I wouldn't really compare what I do to neurosurgery, but yes. Yeah. So I, I get to, um, we typically do 90 days of coaching and that first week, I'm just getting to know them kind of figuring out what, what their pain points are, what their strong points are, what they really want to be doing with their life, like ways that they feel like they're completely missing the boat. Cause a lot of times when people come to me, there's a lot more negative than it is positive, right? Um,

Papa Rick (49:56.298)
Well, I don't know, but.

Laura (50:20.561)
Like we're, we've hit the rock bottom. We realized we can't do it all. We're drowning, feel overwhelmed, all the things. And nobody wants to live that way. And so that's where I, that's where I normally found is at the end of that. Um, and so to be able to come in and just be like, look, this first week, like I typically do a free coaching call and I'm like, okay, right now we're just going to do this one thing for you. And so for you, it might be laundry.

And for another person, it might be the dishes in the sink that that's the most overwhelming thing when they wake up in the morning dishes are potty. Like it's different for everyone. It's like what gets them.

Papa Rick (50:53.323)
Yeah. Pick a pick a thread. Start unraveling kind of thing.

Laura (51:00.057)
Yeah, yeah. And so let's figure out that one system right now. And then they get to go implement that and see, like, oh my gosh, well, that really worked. And then the joy is when after that, and they come back and they're like, I want more of that. And we've got to slowly peel the layers and start delegating things out, start taking things off our plates, start automating things and eliminating things. And you feel freer, you feel lighter, right? And then we have time and the space to do things that we want to be doing of.

Papa Rick (51:25.251)
Hmm.

Laura (51:29.721)
I have a mom right now who's like, I really wanna be writing a book. Another mom that has a ministry for people who have had miscarriages, but they don't have time to work on these things. They want to be doing these things, but they don't have the time or the space or the energy to be able to do them. And so then we're able to create that space in their lives and allow them to do things that they wanna be doing. And it's so fun. It's so fun to watch their kids learn how to participate in the family.

Papa Rick (51:54.499)
That's terrific.

Laura (51:58.737)
build that teamwork mentality, to have kids who are wanting to help and willing to help is amazing. So that's what I get to do.

Papa Rick (52:06.911)
You sound like a systems analyst picking, picking things apart. Where's the system? Where's the, we'll fix something over here. Okay. Where's the next most, where's the next pain? Okay. Let's go over here and see what's doing that. And we pretty soon, pretty soon we'll have this sucker running like a top, you know, that's very, very systematic. That's very cool.

Jennie (52:07.982)
I love it.

Laura (52:26.673)
I've never thought of it that way. I like that.

Papa Rick (52:28.939)
That's what I used to do. I was a system analyst, computers and stuff like that. And you're the approach. It's funny how the approach can be the same in such different, you know, arenas. You know, I never, I never thought to apply it to raising kids.

Laura (52:44.453)
Yeah, that's interesting.

Papa Rick (52:44.791)
You know, running a family. Hmm.

Jennie (52:49.59)
Well, coaching, I think one-on-one coaching is my favorite setting too. Um, cause the relationships are so, are so much fun. And, um.

It's while you were talking about how you help moms, let's just find one thing and we'll work on that thing this week or whatever. And then we'll come back and we'll reassess and we'll look at this other thing. And that's something that at least for me in my own life, and I imagine is a similar experience for a lot of people is that when you're in it, when you're like,

in the chaos of your own life, it is so difficult, if not impossible, to be an objective outside viewer and to be able to look in and pull apart all of the pieces and start systematically going after each one of them in bite-sized chunks. At least for me, if I'm looking at my life, I'm like, there's 17 categories and they all have to happen now or it's going to be terrible. Yeah.

Papa Rick (53:56.319)
Yeah, you get overwhelmed. Yeah, yeah.

Jennie (54:01.77)
You get overwhelmed and like, it's just, it's so much harder to pull it apart yourself and systematize it yourself. And it's a lot of mental work. It's a lot of it. It takes time. Um, and, and you have to like carve out time to do that work, to sit down and try to write the notes and make the system and roll up and like with coaching. Like I always say I am a coach because I've had a coaches like.

Papa Rick (54:29.264)
seen it done.

Jennie (54:30.862)
I know the benefit of outsourcing or delegating all of that mental work to someone who one, can see it from a perspective I can't see it in and two, can do it in two minutes flat instead of me trying to carve out hours a week and figure it out myself because I'm distracted by 800 other pieces of my life. So yeah, I mean, coaching, hiring a coach is yet another system.

that fuel can put into place to take a load off.

Papa Rick (55:01.239)
Ooh, there's an idea. Add me to your system. Hmm.

Laura (55:09.021)
I like that.

Papa Rick (55:09.728)
Yeah.

Jennie (55:12.238)
That's just what came up for me while you were talking, Laura, was the fact that we're talking about delegating, we're talking about involving our family and kids and your wider community and friends helping each other because we all have different strengths. The same goes for coaches or hiring professional services. What can you outsource? What can you afford so you can take your time and your energy back?

Um, show up as the rested, peaceful human that you want to be for your family and for yourself.

Papa Rick (55:51.007)
And it's so complicated. Go ahead, go ahead, Lyn.

Laura (55:51.161)
Yeah. I'm thinking about that.

Yeah, well, I think that just that emotional piece that we have attached to all these things, it's like going to see a counselor where I think I could probably counsel myself through the scenario if it was somebody else, right? Like, I could totally do that. But I'm ticked about it, or I'm angry about it, or I'm, I'm done. Like, there's just so much emotion there. And so having somebody come in and say, like, well, really is, like, you're only doing two loads a week, is it, is laundry really that important? Like, let's figure out how we can

Jennie (56:05.732)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (56:12.256)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (56:23.576)
everything.

Laura (56:23.921)
get this off your plate, like just able to look at it objectively without that emotion piece that is so, so big. Well, because I'll suggest something and it's like a very simple, but then I'll, I've never thought of that. I don't, I've never thought of that. That's so simple. I mean, it is very simple and we can just, but there's no emotion there for me. I can just see it. And whereas if it's in my house, I'm sure that there's emotion attached to it. And I have lots of opinions about it, you know?

Papa Rick (56:27.859)
Okay, yeah, step back. Gotcha, gotcha.

Jennie (56:44.629)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (56:47.73)
outside here.

And that makes it hard being in being emotional. It just kind of automatically disconnects your rational side to something. You know, it's hard to think rationally and calmly when you're upset, you know, so having a, having a calm voice to talk to and reframe things that would be. Yeah. Get you started, get you calmed down. Be very valuable.

Laura (57:03.869)
Uh-huh.

Jennie (57:16.17)
I love that you mentioned that emotional attachment piece plays such a huge part in it because that it affects everything. It affects how we parent. Like if our kid acts a certain way, it's hard not to like take it personally or feel like we're being attacked or whatever. And that and that plays into how we parent too. Because when

Papa Rick (57:26.379)
Yeah.

Jennie (57:46.902)
when our child does something directly opposite of either what they have been instructed to do or you know that they know better. But like even as adults, we know better. I know if I eat this Big Mac, I'm going to feel like crap tomorrow.

Papa Rick (58:08.607)
Yeah. Do not, do not need that bowl of ice cream. Yeah.

Jennie (58:12.494)
And yet sometimes I eat the Big Mac and I eat my consequences the next day. And, um, and our, you know, to expect our two and three and five, and even our 16 year olds to have mastered their emotions so they can just be perfectly logical and rational creatures all of the time is, is insane, but it's such a difficult part of parenting because everything they do.

we tend to have an emotional attachment of some kind to, and when we create meaning around it, instead of just being like, oh, this is my kid and they made this choice. How can we navigate that?

Laura (58:55.593)
Mm-hmm. Yeah. It's very hard to subtract yourself from the equation and be logical about it.

Papa Rick (59:02.823)
It is, it is. That's a, that's a real limitation. So that's a skill we all need as parents. That would be a good skill to work on then. Right.

Laura (59:13.745)
Yeah, I love, I love Brené Brown's, like how she just frames everything of like, the story I'm making up is this, right? And so if that can be our first thought of kind of, because our brains are made for story and we want that, we wanted to complete a complete scenario, right? And so when you threw that rock at my head, I make up that you want me dead. Like that's what

Papa Rick (59:17.219)
Mmm.

Papa Rick (59:22.051)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (59:34.239)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (59:39.101)
Hahaha.

Jennie (59:40.351)
Uh huh.

Laura (59:40.377)
that's what I'm thinking right now and he's like oh really I just I'm angry whatever like if we can kind of separate ourselves and parcel it out as to what I'm really feeling I'm feeling this because I'm thinking this and I'm thinking this because of all this history but really that's not where you are at the moment and I haven't had a kid throw a rock at my head just for the record I just threw that all out.

Papa Rick (59:55.156)
Yeah.

Papa Rick (59:59.907)
That's complicated though. Are you related to him? The kid that threw the rock.

Jennie (01:00:01.014)
I mean, I have.

Jennie (01:00:07.602)
Not, they were like aiming at my head. They were just throwing rocks and I was in the way.

Papa Rick (01:00:13.075)
in your general direction.

Laura (01:00:16.201)
Whoa.

Jennie (01:00:17.538)
But, but yeah, no, I mean, there's like, we do that. We do that with kids, we do that with each other. That's a huge part of marriage or friendships. Like someone takes some action. It has nothing to do with us. They do whatever they're doing because they are who they are or they have a need in the moment or whatever. And, you know, oh my, I don't know, just, okay, my husband.

forgot to pick up ice cream on his way home from work. And so then I create the story that he just doesn't care about me enough or he, yeah. Like he, and really like he gets home and he's like, he had a patient die that day and just forgot because he's a human being or, you know, so it is. It's, it's,

Papa Rick (01:00:51.212)
AHHHHH

Papa Rick (01:00:57.247)
He's not thinking about me enough. Yeah.

Jennie (01:01:18.686)
separating ourselves from the stories that we write. Our spouse didn't write them, our kids didn't write that story, our kid just did something impulsively because that's what kids do. And then we write a story and we make ourselves feel terrible. It's like.

Papa Rick (01:01:30.54)
Mm-hmm.

Papa Rick (01:01:39.647)
I've got to go back and reread Dornay Brown. The book that came to mind for me was the four agreements. And one of which is don't take things personally. It's so hard when someone, especially if you're both upset, someone says something and interpreting what that means and causing, you know, getting yourself to respond to it the way you would like to respond to it ideally, you know, is sometimes a challenge because you get...

You get wounded and then now it's like, where's my rock? You threw a rock at me. Where's my, where's, where's a rock? And, uh, that's a, that's a challenge we all have to work on. It's been, it's just that much more complicated with kits because you got all these little people running around testing the fences around you.

Papa Rick (01:02:30.359)
The coach would be a good thing.

Laura (01:02:30.777)
Sorry, there's somebody outside and the dogs are barking at them. So it's like, I live in a kennel right now.

Jennie (01:02:34.862)
That's okay.

Papa Rick (01:02:34.943)
We love dogs. We love dogs here. I like, I like to bark if you're on a speaker and see if I can get them barking at me.

Jennie (01:02:38.27)
I always have.

Laura (01:02:44.177)
Oh gosh, let's not start that.

Papa Rick (01:02:46.591)
Woof, woof.

Jennie (01:02:46.734)
No, he still, he doesn't understand that the headphones are like the sound is going in my ears. So he thinks my dogs can hear him barking at them through the microphone. I'm like, they can't hear you. Well, no, she doesn't, but her dogs are outside. My dogs are in the room with me.

Laura (01:02:56.708)
Thanks.

Papa Rick (01:02:57.466)
I don't think Laura has headphones on. I think she's on a speaker.

Papa Rick (01:03:05.173)
Okay. I'll just have to get louder then.

Jennie (01:03:08.906)
You just need to go get your own dog and then you can rile them up however you want.

Papa Rick (01:03:13.719)
I don't know what it is. There's a four year old piece of me that never quite wore off.

Laura (01:03:20.713)
I feel like that's with all bands.

Papa Rick (01:03:22.919)
Is it? Is that a dad thing?

Laura (01:03:25.937)
Well, I feel like that would be something that my dad would have done.

Papa Rick (01:03:29.011)
I can't.

Papa Rick (01:03:32.515)
stir things up a little bit.

Jennie (01:03:33.354)
Laura, is there anything that we haven't touched on that you want to talk about as far as like what you do or anything like that?

Laura (01:03:46.289)
I don't think so, but I would love to offer, I have a free chore e-guide that kind of walks you through getting responsibilities in place for your parents. You have age appropriate chores in there and then just kind of the process of how you go about setting that up and how you figure out really what's important to your home. Cause you can have your kids dusting the fans every day, but really does that bring peace to your home or would you, is it better to have them pick up the living room cause it's in a main space, right? So kind of narrowing that down as to what's important.

Jennie (01:03:54.355)
Awesome.

Papa Rick (01:04:03.095)
Okay.

Laura (01:04:15.357)
What do I really want them to learn? And then how we can implement that. So I'd love to share that with you guys.

Papa Rick (01:04:19.511)
That takes some working through. Yeah, nice. Okay.

Jennie (01:04:24.85)
Awesome, yeah, I saw that on your website. So we'll link your website and any other links so people can follow you either on social media or anywhere else. And then they can go to your website to you have a couple of courses on there and then you've got that free guide as well, right? Okay. And...

Laura (01:04:48.345)
Sorry.

Jennie (01:04:52.662)
Yeah, just tell everybody real quick where they can find you. And then we'll also link all of that in the show notes as well.

Laura (01:04:58.585)
Yeah, so Mama Systems on Instagram and Facebook, all the places really, and then my website is mamasystems.net.

Papa Rick (01:05:08.109)
net I noticed. Yeah, okay. Good.

Jennie (01:05:11.726)
Awesome. Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for being here with us today. I hope that all of the mamas and papas who are trying to make their own lives a little easier, check out your website and download that free guide. And yeah, I think I'm going to. Sure. Yeah.

Papa Rick (01:05:34.655)
I was going to say, I'm going to, I'm going to pick up your master course here. That's pretty reasonable. Call Laura. She'll help you. So I'll help you get squared away.

Laura (01:05:43.293)
I love that. Yeah, it would be so fun too.

Papa Rick (01:05:47.043)
Yeah.

Jennie (01:05:47.574)
Awesome, well thank you so much Laura, and for everybody else out there, happy parenting and good luck.

Laura (01:05:55.538)
Thank you guys.

Jennie (01:05:58.542)
Bye.