Stories of Wonder

James Murphy explores his career in sustainable and regenerative marine tourism. Plus, we unpack why work integrated learning improves employability.

What is Stories of Wonder?

Stories of Wonder platforms and celebrates the real impact Deakin students, alumni, researchers and staff are making in the world, right now.

Deakin University CRICOS Provider Code: 00113B

James Murphy is a Deakin alum,
an environmental entrepreneur,

and a marine tourism operator
based on Victoria's Surf Coast.

What began as a love of
the ocean has turned into a career

blending tourism, conservation
and community impact.

In this episode, Murph reflects
on building a business with purpose

and how his time at Deakin helped
turn his instinct and passion

into lasting impact.

From the lands of the Wadawurrung People,
this is Stories of Wonder.

James Murphy, welcome
to "Stories of Wonder."

- [James] Thanks. Thanks for having me.

- [Dom] So you are the director of

Sea All Dolphin Swims, as well

as the founder of the Southern
Ocean Environmental Link.

It sounds like you've
spent a lot of your life

in and around the ocean.

Where did that connection begin for you?

- [James] I reckon, I've
always loved the water.

I've always loved being in and around,

and it's not even just the ocean,

it's just the water in general.

I remember one of my earliest
memories being at a barbecue,

we grew up in Melbourne and
someone had caught a fish,

and they walked up the hill
with a big carp out of a lake,

and I just, my eyes popped out of my head.

I was like, "what?:

I just didn't realise that
there could be fish, you know?

Like, so this-
- [Dom] Yeah.

- [James] Just felt ingrained.

And then, growing up as a kid,

we'd always holiday down to the beach.

So I had this draw.

It was always pulled to the water.

You know, I fished a lot as a kid.

That first cup that I
saw really fired that up.

But I, it always made sense,
but it didn't make sense.

Like, it made made sense
to be at the beach,

but it didn't, I didn't really
understand why when I was

younger, but I get it now.

- [Dom] Interesting.
- [James] Mm.

- [Dom] And so from then,

did you always wanna work in this space?

Or where did that come from?

- [James] Truth be told, I
never really wanted to work.

(both chuckle)

- [Dom] Sorry,

wrong question.
- [James] Yeah, yeah.

No, that, and that's sort of been

the lifelong quest has been
to do things that I haven't,

so that I haven't felt like
I've actually been working.

And I've, and the ocean's always
been easy for me with that.

You know? It's always, it, yeah.

It's just such a beautiful place

because you have such a varied experience.

You never have two days of the same.

And everything you get is just raw.

Like, you're not, it's not prepackaged,

it's not manufactured.

It's just genuine, authentic,
and you can't control it.

You know?

You literally can't control any of it.

And I think it's just
such a beautiful thing

in such a controlled
world that we live in,

to have this element of chaos
that just dictates everything.

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] Let's talk about marine tourism.

How did you get started
in this kind of field?

And was it always, you know, dolphins?

Was it always the
creatures that drew you in,

- [James] Started as a surf coach.

- [Dom] Ah.
- [James] Yeah.

So I skated when I was young.

Someone put a surfboard under my feet

and it just clicked.
(finger snaps)

And then shortly thereafter
got a role working

as a surf coach.

And then, you know, I did
that for a number of years

and did a lot of free diving
through those years too.

And eventually,

I got asked if I wanted

to start managing a surf
school, a different one.

And I went across, and that
was See All Dolphin Swims.

And, you know, they needed
a fill in for the boat.

And I just got there, I'm
like, are you kidding?

Like, I just didn't even know
dolphins were in Victoria.

And now I'm swimming with seals,
I'm swimming with dolphins.

I'm jumping off the roof,
I'm like riding in there

and I'm looking for animals with binos.

- [Dom] Wow.

- [James] You know, it was
just, I was really sort

of gobsmacked that it was real.

And I think that for me was
a moment like, all right,

well, this is what I'm gonna do.

So I started surf

and I still surf every day,
you know, family surfs.

And we, that's absolutely who I am.

But there's this deeper connection

with the marine mammals, you know?

And, how I said earlier

that I didn't understand
it when I was young?

I get it now.

That was that connection that was,

this is what that pull toward
the ocean has always been.

- [Dom] Mm.

You were recently featured
in the Tourism Australia

Sustainability Storytellers campaign

as a leaner in both sustainable
and regenerative tourism.

Can you take us through like

what these tourism styles are like

and how they're different from, you know,

what else is out there?

- [James] Yeah, so
everything's moving toward

regenerative tourism.

The big thing that,

when you say regenerative,

a lot of the time people think, you know,

you've gotta be putting
a plant in the ground,

or you've gotta be removing
this or doing it or whatever.

But it's not.

It's as much a mindset as anything else.

It's about actively recognising

and making moves towards
redeveloping the area

that you're working in.

So, sometimes that can
be supporting research,

sometimes that can be physically
boots on ground, you know,

removal of marine waste.

Other times it can be, you
know, working with vets

to get animals rehabilitated,

education, those sorts of things.

But there is a difference between

sustainable tourism and regenerative.

And as said-
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] I think the big thing,

the best operators out there
are able to demonstrate things

that they've done to help improve

the environment that they work in.

And that's probably
your biggest difference.

'Cause everybody's in a sustainable

tourism operator these days.

But if you actually dive into it,

there are some really
good operators out there

that are doing things to
help support the environment.

And there's a lot of
operators that are operating.

- [Dom] Yeah.

Can you break that?

Can you give us an example of
a true sustainable tourism,

I don't know, experience?

Because I'm starting
to think of, you know,

some of those companies
that, you know, offset their-

- [James] Yeah.
- [Dom] Carbon emissions

or something like that, where it's,

they're not really all that sustainable,

but they're potentially throwing a bit

of money at the problem somewhere else.

Is that the same kind of thing?

- [James] Yeah, I think you're
gonna see a lot of that.

And the way accreditations are set up,

they're set up to tick boxes.

So there's no actual-
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] Recognition
for boots on ground work.

There's nothing to say that
this little shop down the corner

that's been actively
supporting grassroots movements

for 25 years, there's
nothing in the accreditation

to provide weight for that.

But, you know, if you tick all
your boxes, tick, tick, tick,

tick, tick, provide some
photos, then you know,

you'll get a little badge.

- [Dom] Mm.
- [James] So I think

the big thing, if people are
really conscientious about

where they're putting their
money, I think the big thing is

to be, if you're going into a region,

it's not to say that these
operators aren't gonna be good.

They're, I'm sure there,
we've got incredible

operators all around the country.

But if you dive a little bit deeper

and look at what are the outcomes

that have been derived from
your engagement in their

service, you know, you've
gone to their service,

have they then been able

to redirect funds into whatever it is?

Have they got active programmes

that they can show you
that they can talk about?

Are there education
programmes that they can,

that are helping being funded
by, just by you being there?

Those sorts of things.

So if you start to look for that stuff,

that's when you're gonna start

to see those regenerative
tourism specialists really come

through above the normal
sustainable tourism

services that you'll
find around the country.

- [Dom] Mm-hm.

So it sort of sounds like, you know,

in the tourism industry,
there still is a bit of

greenwashing, if you
will, around the place.

Is it mostly on, you know,
people like you and I

or people that are going
to experience these things

to figure out a way to spot
what they're looking at

and what is true regenerative

or sustainable tourism

to make a difference?
- [James] I, look at-

I think it's gonna come
back to the individual.

You know, we are all different.

Some people are really conscientious about

where their dollars are going,

about the impact that they're having.

Some people aren't,

you know?
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] Some people they want to just,

the fast, you know, they-

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] Quick hit it,

get in, get out.

They're not concerned.

And I suppose, and that's okay.

You know, we all live
our lives differently.

And it, how I would say
my role in all of that,

looking at the breadth

of the community is we wanna
make sure we're having a

positive impact with all of
our clients' experiences.

Whether it is that person
that's deeply connected

with the environmental
work that we're doing,

or whether it's a person that's
just in the region that say,

hey, we're gonna book that one because

we're simply at Queenscliff.
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] So we just wanna
know that what we're doing

is making some sort of
positive impact in their lives.

You know, so maybe they can
walk away a little bit more,

with a little bit more advocacy
for the marine environment

or the wildlife or whatever it is.

Even if it's just common respect
for, you know, for people

around you or the environment,
the community, you know,

- [Dom] Well, how are these
kinds of interactions that,

you know, you are kind of
giving people the experience of,

you know, with dolphins,

with seals in their natural
environment, different to say,

you know, what you experience
with like sea world

or some sort of, you know, a zoo

or-
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] A more manmade environment.

- [James] Yeah.

So there's no cages, there's no training,

there's no scripts, you know?

We'll, if we saw a pod, I mean, I've,

a thousand times I've seen a
pod and they don't wanna play.

- [Dom] And a pod is?

- [James] A pod is-
- [Dom] A group of.

- [James] Yup.
- [Dom] Yup.

Dolphins.
- [James] So, and they're,

they'll be there in the water.

We talk to 'em, talk to the
people on the boat, say,

hey guys, this is what they're doing.

They're feeding, for example, you know,

they're just interested in their food.

We're not getting get in their way.

We're gonna let them do their thing.

We're gonna watch from the boat.

They'll eat their food.

And we'll, you know,
we'll go for a snorkel.

We'll jump in and see weedy seadragons

or fur seals or something.

Come back, find the pod again

and they're in a
completely different mood.

You know, because they're wild.

There's no scripts.

There's no, hey, it's 10:30,

it's time to do some back flips.

- [Dom] Yeah.

- [James] And that's the big difference,

is you are working in the environment.

There are no guarantees.

People will tell you, oh, guarantees.

But there are no guarantees.

'Cause you don't know
how these animals are.

If you are in the business
of offering guarantees,

and essentially you are looking

to alter this natural behaviour,

and that's absolutely
what we're not about.

It's about putting
people in a natural space

with wild animals

and giving the animals the
opportunity to come up to us.

Sometimes they do, it's great,

sometimes they don't, that's okay.

- [Dom] Mm.
- [James] You know?

And the big difference when
you turn up at SeaWorld,

we actually went a few years ago,

and from an education perspective

and impact perspective,
these guys do great work.

There are thousands

and thousands of kids going through

that are going to the touch tank.

They're seeing animals
that's sparking wonder.

But the way those animals
are feeling is not okay.

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] You know,

so there's this bit of a, it's
a little bit of a tug of war

because I can see the benefit
of having a space like that.

'Cause I went through with kids,

the kid's like, oh, look at the stingrays.

Touch the stingrays and
it's sparking that wonder.

- [Dom] Yeah.

- [James] How many of
those kids then go on to be

marine scientists or
they go on to, you know,

do conservation efforts in the world?

There's gotta be a few.

But looking at the welfare

of the animals in those spaces is, it's,

especially the marine mammals.

It's just, personal perspective,

working with wild dolphins,
those are not happy dolphins.

- [Dom] Mm.
- [James] You know,

so anybody, conscientious,

I'm not-

It was, I found it really confronting.

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] Really

incredibly confronting.

'Cause you can feel
spending time with them,

you develop a bit of a sense
for when they're around.

I think it's the echo location.

So I think, 'cause too many
times I'll be on the boat

I'm like, ooh, you feel that?

And everyone's looking me like,

whatcha are you talking about?

And I'm like, there.

And I'll literally point-
- [Dom] Oh, wow.

- [James] And then they'll just pop up

and I haven't seen 'em, no sign.

And I think it's just, they've pinged us.

Like, they go like, zz,
ah, they sort of ping you.

- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] You get it
when you're underwater,

they'll ping you all the time.

But I think that's all it is.

I think it's just these subtle energies

you're just receptive to

because we spend so much
time in the environment.

I remember walking into SeaWorld

and standing on the edge
of like this little pond,

and there were no
dolphins that I could see.

I'm like, well, what is that feeling?

This just feels horrible.

Just this dense, heavy,
just horrible energy.

And then I turned around
and there's a dolphin with,

it's just next to me, just
with his head out like this.

I'm like, oh, you know?

And then you look at the other ones,

they've got rake marks all
over their bodies from,

they're just beating each other up.

- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] And it, as I said,
to people who don't work

with them, I'm looking at these things

and they are depressed animals.

Like, they come out for their show.

They do their show.

And then one of them that was
getting bullied were just,

was just sitting at the door at the gate

just trying to go, you know?

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] So, I don't know.

I had, it was really,
really confronting to work

with wild animals

and to have them just, you know,

it be a celebration of them being wild

and, you know, any interaction
being on their terms.

And to go from that to
just having this glimpse

of what it's like-

- [Dom] And probably
juxtaposed with a very excited-

- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] Audience of kids

and adults that are waiting
for their little show.

- [James] Well, you know
what was interesting

about that too?

'Cause we went not because
like, hey, let's go to SeaWorld

we went because it came as a
part of the three part pass.

We had the third day, okay-
- [Dom] Oh, I see.

- [James] Let's go on
a whale watching tour.

Let's do this.

And we're gonna spend
another 500 bucks on,

Hey, we got a ticket.

- [Dom] Yeah
- [James] We're here.

Let's just see what it's about.

So that was why we went.

So just to-

- [Dom] Yeah.

- [James] So it's clarify-
- [Dom] A deal's a deal.

- [James] A deal's a deal. Right.

So we took the deal.
(Dom laughs)

We thought we're there,
we got the ticket anyway,

but I stood, sat there in the
audience, and I looked around

and I reckon 19 outta 20

of the parents felt a similar way.

- [Dom] Right.
- [James] To how I felt.

- [Dom] Interesting.
- [James] And you, yeah.

You could see the look on their face.

And it was a really interesting space

because I think they're looking at, well,

the kids are getting an experience,

but they could see how
putting a sentient animal,

'cause he's got, they're as smart,

if not smarter than what we are.

- [Dom] Mm.
- [James] Guaranteed,

hands down.

You know?

So to put them in, lock
'em in a cage, they could,

they, the bulk of them could feel it.

Some people didn't, you know, I could go,

this guy over here, he
wants the SeaWorld package,

he wants to ride the
dolphin and have the hat on

and with, you know?
- [Dom] Yeah.

He's getting the product he bought.

- [James] Yeah, he's getting
his, but, he was a minority,

you know?

- [Dom] Interesting.
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] And so, with what you do as well,

with seeing these creatures
in their natural environment,

acting naturally,

are people that come on your
tours getting more used to,

or know what the product
is that they've bought,

that there's no guarantees?

They might not see anything exciting,

but they are doing it
for the right reason,

or their expectations are kind of set?

Is that pretty, I don't know,

across the board for
you what you're finding,

or are there the occasional
people that are not happy

because Dolphin didn't
do a flip or something?

- [James] Wow.

We get, my favourite one star review-

(both chuckle)

This was years ago.

We got, they said, dolphin's
great, staff are amazing.

Seals are really fun but we
didn't like the tea and coffee.

So one star.

So (laughs).
- [Dom] Okay (laughs) not bad.

- [James] What have you paid for?

Have you come to see dolphins

or you come for tea and coffee?

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] If you want tea,

coffee, go to the cafe, you know?

(Dom chuckles)

Yeah, so you get people of
all walks and that's great.

You know, we wanna support,
I'm a massive advocate

for tourism being for all people.

And that's not just you or me,

that's not just people living
with disabilities, physical,

or learning challenges.

It's not people with, you
know, from different cultures

that never put foot in the ocean.

It's also for those
people that want to see

what experience, you know, it's everyone.

It's everyone.

Because really there's-
- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] A transformative
power to working

with marine mammals that you
really, you get once you're in

that space and they don't give you

that experience every time.

I remember we had a woman
with terminal cancer

and she'd come out with her family

and this was pretty close to,
you know, her time being done.

And she, this was her thing.

And the dolphins did not want
a bar, just didn't want a bar.

We found a pod, life is good.

Hey, let's try it.

And they were just, for whatever
reason, just not into it.

Not into it, not into it.

We didn't know that she had cancer.

A lot of the time people
will booked last wish trips

and, you know, we'll
organise a whole thing,

private charter, you know, make sure,

'cause again, like you just, you've gotta

do these things for people.

But she went and told one of
the things, said, Hey, like,

this mum's actually in this space.

And we got our then ops manager,

she got in the water with just her.

I said, look, no one else, sorry guys.

The dolphins aren't interested,

we're gonna try just one last go.

Put in this woman in the
water, no word of lie,

dolphins come straight up like this.

Just sat with her for 10
seconds and then just moved on.

You know?

And like, you look at that.

- [Dom] Wow.
- [James] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

And everyone on the boat is
like, not a, like, everybody's

tearing up and you know, the
woman's just beside herself.

But that's what we're working with.

That's the potential.

That's the power that this can have.

So, you know, I want everybody to come

because for that family,
it was about their mom.

But for this family over here,

it might be getting
over a fear of the ocean

or, you know, this group of people

it could be that they've,
you know, they saw a thing

as a kid and they've always
wanted to see a dolphin.

So, you know, managing
expectations is a challenge.

But we try to spell it out from the start.

But we don't, we just make
sure we're not excluding

people based on ideology.

It's, you wanna get people in,

you want to give them that opportunity.

But at every step of the way,
it's reminding them, Hey,

that they are wild animals
and this is about respect.

And it is absolutely up to them.

It's their choice if they
want to come over or not.

- [Dom] Yeah.

That's really powerful

and says a lot about
that whole energy thing

that you were talking about as well.

Let's talk a bit about Deakin.

- [James] Yep.

- [Dom] When did Deakin
enter the picture for you?

- [James] Yeah, I love Deakin
and I'm not just saying that.

(Dom and James speak at once)

(James laughs)

- [Dom] I think we can
just end the show there.

Yeah thanks.

- [James] Deakin's really good.

So the story goes way back.

My mom studied at Deakin.

So, as, when I was a kid,
it was always Deakin,

Deakin, Deakin.

My wife is also an employee.

She's been with Deakin for 12 years.

And I started studying, I'm
guessing about 2006 ish, 2007.

I actually dunno, I don't dunno.

(both chuckle)

- [Dom] We'll fact check that.

- [James] Yeah, we could check that one.

But yeah, I just finished
a, so out of school,

I had maybe six or seven gap years.

I just sort of

enjoyed, the casual.
- [Dom] That's life.

(James laughs)
Yeah, casual.

Handful or so.
- [James] Yeah, it was good.

It was good. So I-

- [Dom] And how did that happen?

Did you keep going to
start a course and then-

or just putting off-
- [James] Yeah, I started one

ecology and sustainability
to different uni.

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] But I wasn't ready.

- [Dom] Right.
- [James] To study.

I was just young, you know?

I was young, excitable, classic,

you know, turbocharged,
18-year-old boy just wanted

to live my life.

So that didn't work out

and was like, oh, just, you
know, out there having fun

and then it-
- [Dom] Okay.

- [James] Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Lots of shaking cages.

- [Dom] Okay.
- [James] But yeah, no,

it was good.

But, went in, got in through the back way

through TAFE and then-
- [Dom] Right.

- [James] Yeah, I had a choice.

Sort of, Burwood was the first preference.

- [Dom] 'Cause you were in (indistinct).

- [James] I was in Melbourne.
- [Dom] Yep, uh-huh.

- [James] Got into warm
ponds and never looked back.

Yeah and it was, we've,
you know, the connection,

the partnership has just
continued, you know,

through uni-

- [Dom] What'd you study?
- [James] Into work.

Commerce, major in marketing.

Yeah, I know.
- [Dom] Very interesting,

isn't it?
(James laughs)

You wouldn't think you wouldn't,

it wouldn't be the thing.

- [James] A back flip.
- [Dom] Yeah. Yeah.

The thing on the tin here.
- [James] I know.

- [Dom] Very interesting though.

- [James] It's, and it's really funny

'cause anytime there's, you know,

we've got the Marine
Freshwater Discovery Centre,

so anytime they've got big revelations

or big news announcements, I'm often there

with all the top marine science guys.

But I sort of giggle 'cause I
didn't study marine science,

but I ended up there anyway.
(Dom laughs)

- [Dom] We'll be deleting
this from this point.

(James laugh)
It's not relevant.

- [James] Yeah. Yeah. They don't know.

No, but it's-

- [Dom] What made it
the right time for you?

So, obviously, you had those years,

you had your several gap years,

you had your rattling cages era,

but then what gave you
the impetus to go to TAFE

and then find your way into uni?

- [James] It actually
started, being honest,

it started, I remember sitting in,

we had a little computer room at home.

I was living at my parents' place.

- [Dom] That really takes me back.

A computer room.
- [James] Yeah, yeah, right?

I know.
- [Dom] Just that phrase.

It's just not even-
- [James] Yeah, yeah.

- [Dom] Every room's a computer room now,

but like-
- [James] Yeah, I know. Yeah.

- [Dom] When we were growing up.

- [James] Yeah, I know.

We ain't getting old. I
know. And it's really funny.

It's happened so quick.

But I remember sitting
there and looking around,

I just had this moment,
wisdom beyond my years

where I realised that, you know,

mom and dad must have worked pretty hard

to be able to gimme the opportunity.

I think I needed, I just
snapped a skateboard

or something, you know,
and I needed a new board.

And they, I just had this realisation.

I'm like, they've worked
pretty hard for me to complain

that my skateboard snapped
and to actually be able to go

and get a new skateboard.

- [Dom] Mm.
- [James] And I realised that

if I didn't do something,

if I just kept enjoying, you know,

Melbourne's club scene and
just hanging out with mates

and free diving and skateboarding

and doing what I wanted to
do, that my kids might not

have the same opportunity.

- [Dom] Wow.
- [James] You know?

- [Dom] How old were you around that time?

- [James] I think I was about 19.

That wasn't instant.

Like, I'm pulling my head out.

But I just remember that was
probably the most pivotal

moment that sort of set me on that path

to get back into, to
start looking at study.

And then ultimately, you know,

when I got into the workforce,

it was thinking about financial freedom.

It was looking, I've never
been really been well contained

in a box, you know, a lot of, you know,

problem solving and entrepreneurial

sort of mind that I've got.

But yeah, I just, I started
thinking about financial freedom

and what that would look like.

And that was sort of
what led me down the path

of getting into business.

- [Dom] So why that course

and did you learn anything from it

that you still learn today?

- [James] I was always-
- [Dom] That you still, sorry,

use today?
- [James] Yeah.

So I was really good
at sales and marketing.

It's just the ideas and having that

like an entrepreneurial mind,

I'd started my own skateboard label

and I was selling, I was
wholesaling to the public,

so that was really successful.

So, before the dollar crash.

And, so I had, I mean, even
when I was in primary school,

I remember I was making, I was trying

to sell kids tanks, fish tanks.

I'm like, I'll give you-
- [Dom] Wow.

- [James] I know.

That's so-
- [Dom] You were always

an entrepreneur.
- [James] Yeah.

So marketing and sales sort of
went hand in hand with that.

Admittedly, finishing uni, I
got into, 'cause the boat stuff

and the surf coach is all seasonal.

And I got in.

Was started doing a
little bit of sales work

and I, it got, it sort
of got a little bit,

not confronting, but I, there
were times where I was like,

you know, why did I do commerce?

You know, I'm just, I'm
just selling stuff now.

I'm selling kitchens, designing kitchens.

Like, why do that?

But it wasn't until I got into business

that it all made sense again.

Like, same with the fish.

Where I was missing the dot, the dot

that I was missing was
being in my own business

because all of these
skills, all of these things

that I'd learned set me up.

You know, I had, they're not gonna

tell you how to run a business.

They're not gonna tell you
all of the intricacies,

but they're gonna give you
a really good understanding

of those principles that you
can build on in the real world.

So once I got into business,
commerce degree made sense.

And having a major in
marketing really helped

develop our business to where it is today.

- [Dom] After studying at
Deakin, you then partnered

with the university.

So when did that happen?

Because now, you know, you are
kind of at the helm of a lot

of work integrated learning initiatives.

- [James] Yup.

- [Dom] So tell us a
little bit about that.

- [James] Yeah, you know,
really, I think it was,

we officially became partners
maybe in my second year.

And I remember the first student
coming through, I was like,

oh, I don't dunno what to expect here.

I was sitting on the dark.

It's a sunny day though
so I was like, all right,

we'll just, we'll give it a go.

And-

- [Dom] And this is with
Sea All Dolphin Swims?

- [James] This is Sea
All Dolphin Swims, yeah.

And she came through and was just energy

and life and just so positive

and optimistic about the future.

She's young, she's 21, 22, you know?

And then she was just incredible.

She, and, you know, she
retained the employment, said,

Hey, let's get you in.

And then she ended up
doing her honours here

and she had actually
just, she met her fiance

at work on the boat too.

So that's another

high five for that one.
- [Dom] Wow, great.

Yeah. Good for her.

- [James] But that, she was the first.

And from there it just
sort of built and built.

The biggest year we had was through COVID.

We had, I think 50 odd students come

through the work integrated
learning programme,

which was great.

But we've had a number of, we
had some really good people.

You know, Deakin has some
amazing, amazing students.

And the work integrating
learning programme,

for me, as an employer,

I get to see who's good,
a lot of good people.

But there's a-
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] There's quite
a few that are excellent.

So, you know, if you get a dozen students,

even half a dozen students,
you can still pick 'em.

You go, this person's got
an amazing work ethic.

Or they're able to think outside the box,

or they're incredible under pressure.

And then you can put a
little bit more time in them.

The other people, you know,
maybe it's not suited to them

and they get good work experience

and we'll ensure that
we're giving 'em tasks

that are aligned with their skill sets

or the way that they're, that they work.

But for me, developing

that partnership has meant
we've been able to been able

to develop legacy within our business.

You know, we've, all of the
best, all of my favourites,

not all, I wanna say 80%, four outta five

of my favourites actually,
most of the time,

come from Deakin.

- [Dom] Wow.
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] So you've got a talent funnel

of-
- [James] Absolutely.

- [Dom] People that by
the time they go through,

they're qualified and-

- [James] Yeah, a hundred percent.

And they normally stay
with me till about 26

and then tears in my eyes,

they go on to do bigger and better things.

(Dom laughs)

Yep.
- [Dom] Wow.

- [James] Yeah, little
bit of scarring there.

- [Dom] Just like a little scarring.

Nothing personal.

- [James] No, but it's, you know,

the other thing too that's good

is there's, you look at, you
go sit in a lecture theatre

or go to a prac or lab,

and everybody, the vast
majority, they're all energised,

they're all pumped,
they're all optimistic.

They've all got this incredible
outlook in the world.

And what's tourism about?

Tourism's about, you
know, selling a region.

It's about, you know,
delivering a positive,

memorable experience.

It's gonna connect people with a regional,

with an experience or with
an animal or with a whatever.

And it's the uni students
that often have that energy

that they're able to
lend to people, you know?

And I think it's, from
a tourism perspective,

it's just such an
important part of our mix.

So for me, very selfish.

Yeah, we're getting energised
young people that want

to be in the role,

but for them it's a really good pathway.

And you know, we often joke
to get into Parks Victoria,

you sort of gotta work
for me for three years.

And then you can, you can
make your way through.

- [Dom] You're the-
- [James] Yeah, yeah.

- [Dom] You are the back door

in there.
- [James] Again, tears.

Yeah.
- [Dom] When you were,

For students that are
studying marine science,

marine biology

and other things like
that, how important is

that work integrated
learning experience to them?

And especially, you know, in
reference to what you provide?

- [James] I think it's really important.

It's, the hardest thing, I think,

for a candidate is separating
themselves from the pack.

You know?

When you, if you look at,

if you're sitting in a
classroom, you've got 50 people

to your left, 50 people to your right.

They all want the same jobs.

They all want the same things.
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] Work integrated
learning, volunteering,

any of these things

where you're able to get
practical hands-on experience,

that is massively gonna help
your ability to be employed,

your employability into the future.

And the work, how I treat the
work integrated learning unit.

If we get a gem that is
induction, we've got, you know,

two weeks, we are gonna do
everything we can to get

that person trained, get
them lined up so that,

hey, the day you've
(finger snaps)

thing's finished, let's go.

You're employed.
- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] And from
there, you know, within,

I talk to 'em about

what they wanna do in the future.

Like, I know, I get
someone who comes in at 22,

I know they're out the door by 26.

If they're, if I'm lucky, 26, maybe 27?

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] So I'm working with

them from day one

to develop them, to get the
most out of their potential

as a person, as an employee.

But also looking at, okay,
well, what's next for you?

You know, where are you going to?

What are you next?

Okay, you wanna work for parks?

Well, we know if you wanna work for parks,

you need hands-on practise experience,

but we know you're also
probably gonna be beneficial

to have a ticket driving a boat.

So let's start the training-
- [Dom] Mm, wow.

- [James] Going down that path.

- [Dom] Even those really practical-

- [James] That's right.

- [Dom] Simple accreditations
and things you can

put on the path to that.
- [James] Yeah.

Yeah and I think that's where,

that's where you're gonna
see students having a lot

of success when they're
working with the providers

and actually asking the question

and you know, having a bit of direction.

Because if you've got that direction,

we're here to help.

You know, like-

- [Dom] Yeah 'cause
that's the biggest thing,

when you're, you know, a
student and the big wide world

of employment is a very foggy, vague one.

Someone who can kind of point
you in the right direction,

give you a real, give you some
context about what you need

to kind of click that together

and what you'd be expected to do.

- [James] Mm.

- [Dom] It's really, really useful.

- [James] It is, it is.

It really is.

And like, we're happy to help, you know,

it's, but this is, watching growth is

like, what's guaranteed in life, you know?

Like, what are, gonna grow to a point,

eventually it'll be over.
(finger snaps)

But yeah, really, really all
about facilitating growth,

you know, whether that's,
you know, growth in business,

whether that's, you know,
through conservation efforts

or it's growth in people, you know?

It's amazing to see where we go.

- [Dom] And from the
perspective of, you know,

the big wide world of
work that they go out into

and how they're gonna stand out

and what their skills are like,

how do Deakin students kind of stack up?

- [James] They're good.

They're really good.

I've been really pleased.

Every now and again,
you'll get a good one from

a different place too.

But consistently, we've had a really good

talent pool coming through.

And I think that's
attributed to the facilities.

We've got the Marine
Freshwater Discovery Centre

just down the road that's in Queenscliff.

I know a lot of the
lecturers, the professors,

they're sending their
students out on tours,

on experiences.

We've worked with a heap of
different, different people

with different, on different projects.

You know, honours, masters,
PhDs, PhD projects.

Yeah.
- [Dom] When you were,

say before you made the full
commitment to jump into uni,

you know, full time,

did you ever imagine a work
integrated learning experience

or even a uni experience

that looks like jumping into the water,

swimming with dolphins, working on a bike?

Is that what uni ever looked like to you?

- [James] No.

Admittedly, I'm gonna go there.

I think when I first
started thinking about uni,

there was still a little part
of like, party could be fun,

you know, in the back.
(Dom laughs)

That wasn't quite out of the system.

But no, you couldn't, you
really, it's quite incredible.

I mentioned it earlier, like just the

breadth of human experience.

You, we're so varied in what we do.

And for me, this is what I was born to do.

You know, like, I haven't
really said that before,

but I was thinking about it the other day.

Every thing, every single interest

that I've ever had ties in
beautifully into this role.

And the reality is, I think
if you follow, it's not

you're following your thinking mind,

but it's sort of following

trusting your instincts and your gut.

There's a really good chance
people are gonna be able

to find things that they can
connect with just as much

as I connect with this,
you know, like it's,

so if you ask me, say,
Hey, what's your perfect,

I couldn't have described
it being at uni, you know,

what's your perfect work
integrated learning centre?

I would've had no idea.

But being, you know, on
the other side of it all,

yeah, it all sort of makes sense

and I'm sure it'll connect with heaps

of students out there too.

- [Dom] You've taken thousands
of people at this point,

including school groups-
- [James] Yup.

- [Dom] And people with
disabilities into the water.

- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] Why do you think
that it's important that lots

of people have these experiences?

- [James] Yeah, I, like I said
earlier, it's just the power.

The power that,

what I've seen, people are living,

we are all living with trauma.

We're all living with scarring.

We're all living with things
that are holding us back.

And a lot of those things

can be overcome with just
a little bit of courage.

The thing that sort of
kept me coming back,

aside from connection with the animals,

is watching people be given a chance

to grow through experience, you know?

And it can be something
as simple as a fear.

I always say this one all the time.

People be scared of heights.

We let people jump off the boat roof.

- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] But working with
them, encouraging them,

and then seeing them just
step out of that comfort zone

and go, all right, for
just this split second,

I've found the courage.

And they'll jump, you
know, the energetic release

and just the, this euphoric
sensation that people can get

from that is just, it's just incredible.

You know?

So I really feel that's one of the big,

the big things with

that separates us from
every other operator, hand.

And I'll say to face,
got no problem saying it-

- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] Is that we're,
there's so much more

that we're offering with our boat.

And it's about growing.

It's about developing, you know, so it's,

It's another thing

that's really interesting
when linking soul.

So one of the big things that I saw,

I remember sitting on the
harbour, sitting on the dock,

and there was a boat somewhere,

had an oil slick, you know?

So I don't know-
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] If it was diesel.

It was oil, something was coming out.

'Cause we operate out of a marina,

it's a beautiful space,
but every now and again,

there'll be an old boat.

It'll come in and it'll dump a lot of oil

or some oil on the surface water.

I'm sitting there and I'm
looking at this going,

there's gotta be something we can do here.

And, you know, jumped online,
couldn't find anything.

I eventually found one
marine waste removal solution

that was online, called 'em, said,

"Hey, we're in a harbour,
what can you do?"

And they're like, "Yeah, we can give you

this tiny little machine.

It's gonna cost you 1.1 mil US."

I'm like-
- [Dom] Wow.

- [James] How about no?
- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] So that was sort of, for me,

that was a catalyst to then
start looking at, okay,

well, how can we use the
Seal Dolphin swims platform,

these inspired, you know, uni
students, marine educators,

and this network that we've got

to actually do a little bit
more, not just for the people,

but also for the environment?

And that was sort of the catalyst

to founding Southern
Ocean Environmental Link.

You know, we got into recycling

and a few other bits and pieces.

But coming back to your
question, the students,

when they're coming
through, we probably get,

I reckon about 3000 students a year.

There's about 500 experiences this week

and about that last-
- [Dom] Oh wow, that's huge.

- [James] Yeah. Big weeks.

But the big thing that they're seeing,

they're having this connection
with the wildlife, you know,

seals, dolphins, the weedy seadragons,

the seabirds, but then they're coming back

and then we're talking about
the marine waste removal.

You know, we've built, we
ended up just building our own

little marine waste traps.

We've got three of 'em-
- [Dom] Oh, really?

- [James] In the harbour
at the moment. Yeah.

And we do citizen science, so
there's like a whole workshop.

So, the kids will come in,
they're meeting the animals,

and we are taking our
little waste baskets out.

They're counting the
microplastic that we've captured.

They're seeing what other,
their little invertebrates

are in the traps that we then
release back into the sea.

They're then recycling stuff,

but they're walking away
with this understanding

that they can do more.

That, they've got an opportunity, like me,

to get out there and
actually do something.

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] You know?

And it can be really overwhelming
in the conservation space

because it's just such a huge thing.

It doesn't matter where you look,

you walk down the street like
rubbish, rubbish, rubbish.

You know, there's just stuff everywhere.

But doing this education,
this marine education

and having these kids being
inspired and connected

and just walking away
that idea that, yeah,

grassroots does matter.

I think from a compounding perspective,

I think we've got an
incredible opportunity

to actually have some positive impacts.

So I think, yeah really
important to be linking

those things and yeah.

Trying to help,

help with the students-
- [Dom] You're empowering

all of those people-
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] To spread the word

after that-
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] Become evangelists-
- [James] Yeah.

- [Dom] For this cause.

- [James] Yeah.
- [Dom] And what, and to you,

like, what is the importance

of giving back, whether
it's to the environment,

to the community, to Deakin
University, like whatever?

- [James] I just think
that it's not random.

I think that we are here for a reason.

I don't necessarily think it's,

I don't think I've got the capacity

to actually understand why I'm here

or who I am or what I am.
- [Dom] Mm.

- [James] But I know that we've got,

I've got a boat, you know,

I've got these permits that allow me

to bring people into this environment.

And I feel like I wouldn't be doing

the right thing if I
wasn't trying to do more.

And I think the more we're able

as a community to feel
instead of think, you know,

to be guided by our gut
rather than our mind of

what might someone might
think if I say this

or if I do that, you know, if
you can just get rid of that.

And we can actually come back
to just being remembering

that we're all living in this same system.

You know, where if we
treat it with respect

and if we work together,

then we got a better shot for the future.

Like, what, the one that kills me, you go,

if you go snorkelling, do you see you?

If you go snor- I'll tell
you, I won't ask you.

If you go snorkelling,
you'll normally swim around.

I said, I've done a lot
of spearfishing my life.

You'll normally swim around
and you won't see too much

dinner, so you'll see a lot of fish.

Right, that maybe aren't dinner,

but might be okay in
fish cakes or something.

But we're not taking that.

We're looking, I'm looking
for, I want a whiting.

I just want one whiting.
- [Dom] Uh-huh.

- [James] Let's go.

You might, 45 minutes, oh,
there's finally I've seen one.

You know?

That's about as selective as
you can be with your fishing.

But the reason we are not
seeing heaps of whiting

in because generations
and generations now,

we've just been taking and taking

and taking and taking
and taking, you know?

So the only fish that
are left are the ones

that want to go into fish cakes.

You know, we've just systematically been,

been impacting our environment.

And I think that's because
of this thinking mind.

It's this chasing the dollar.

It's chasing an idea rather
than actually connecting

with the space that we're living in.

Like, is this sustainable
to be taking 40 fish?

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] How many fish

am I gonna eat?

I'm gonna eat one for dinner.

Okay, my wife and kids might eat one.

Let's take two, done.
- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] You know?

Dust your hands, walk away.
(hands clap)

So I think, yeah, I think
it's really important to stay

in contact with, yeah,
what we are at our core.

- [Dom] Yeah.
- [James] Which is a part

of the environment.

- [Dom] Yeah. Well said.

We're coming to the end of this one.

I've got a few sort of quick fire-

- [James] Yep.
- [Dom] Questions for you.

What's something small that
we can all do in the spirit

of sustainability?

- [James] Care?

That's probably it?

You know, if, I think if you care

and if you show respect, then
you'll probably lift a finger.

I think that's it.
- [Dom] Mm-hm.

- [James] You know, I,

and that's the big message
I'm always talking about

on the boat.

It's just respect, you know,
let's just be respectful.

If we're being respectful,

maybe we're gonna get that bit of rubbish.

Maybe we're gonna help
that injured animal.

Maybe we're gonna smile at the

person walking down the street.

You know?

I think that's all it comes down to.

Care and respect.

What are dolphins and
seals like as colleagues?

- [James] Uh-huh.
- [Dom] Are they punctual?

Do they meet their targets and KPIs?

Really get honest.

- [James] Yeah.

Yeah, they're pretty good.

(Dom chuckles)
They're pretty good.

They're reliably unreliable.

(both chuckle)

Yeah, we see them in
every space, every stage,

every, absolutely everything.

Seals are super consistent.

They're just like, so if you
imagine like a brown lab,

chocolate lab.

- [Dom] Mm-hm.
- [James] Right?

And put flippers on it instead of legs,

there's your seal, let's go.

You know, they just
wanna party all the time.

They're down to play-
- [Dom] (laughs) Yeah.

- [James] Or the old
ones will just hang out.

- [Dom] Game.
- [James] Yeah.

Dolphins,

they, there's something else to them.

You know, there's that sentience,
there's, they've got this,

this power like nothing else

I've experienced, maybe elephants.

I've never had a close
experience with elephant,

but you know, they're, yeah.

It's, what they're able
to do is incredible.

So I reckon they can work
to their own schedule

and I'm happy to work around them.

Yeah.
(Dom laughs)

- [Dom] That's great.

- [James] Yeah.
- [Dom] Yeah.

And finally, how can people
learn more about the Southern

Ocean Environmental Link?

- [James] Yeah, so, seol.org.au,
that can get you there.

We've got a list of some of
the programmes that we've got.

So doing a lot of community recycling.

We've got the marine
waste traps doing a lot

of marine education with school students.

We've got a camera system
set up, supported a heap

of different research papers.

There's all sorts of stuff.

And finding out about the dolphins.

Yeah, dolphinswims.com.au.

We'd be the largest marine
education provider on,

I reckon the west coast
of Vic, probably on the-

- [Dom] Let's claim it.

- [James] Yeah, I'm
just gonna run with it.

Again, I'm happy to have a
conversation with anyone.

(both laugh)

But yeah, I reckon just
jump online through socials.

But it is,

it's not a once in a lifetime experience.

It's something that you should do

and then do again, you know,

every time you're out
there, it's different.

And the way things can interact with you,

you never have the same interaction twice.

You know?

And I think for anybody
wanting to reconnect with

who they are and what they
are, this is a really,

really fun and engaging way to do it.

- [Dom] Well, James
Murphy, thank you so much

for coming on "Stories of Wonder."

- [James] Thanks for having me.

That's it for this episode of Stories of Wonder.

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