#3 – Jakob Kaergaard: How to master your sexuality and become a mature man

In episode 3 of the Wayshowers podcast, you will meet Jakob Kaergaard, one of the leading men's sexuality coaches in Scandinavia and author of the book "Bedre sex, mand".

Jakob is a Danish man who has conceived of 12 initiatory steps for becoming a man, and has been a leading contributed to the Maniphesto men's network.

If you want to deepen your sex and intimacy, then this conversation is definitely for you.

To find out more about Jakob's work, go to
https://vitalunit.dk (Danish)
https://vitalunit.com (English)

12 steps to becoming a mature man
https://vitalunit.com/12-initiatory-steps-becoming-man/

Creators & Guests

Host

Eivind F. Skjellum

Men's coach. Writer. Family man. Truth teller.

Guest

Jakob Kaergaard

Men's sexuality coach & author

What is The Wayshowers Podcast?

In the Wayshowers podcast, we have deep conversations with visionary leaders from across the world on the future of men & masculinity. Hosted by Eivind Figenschau Skjellum, men's coach and founder of Reclaim your Inner Throne.

This transcript is auto-generated by Adobe Premiere Pro

Errors may occur. Sorry for the inconvenience.

---------

00;00;02;11 - 00;00;30;17
Speaker 1
I have a certain shamelessness around pleasure, I guess, that many people get inspired about. I think it's very easy nowadays to fall prey to the whole pornography machine, which means that your sexual energy is going to stay in your head. And in your book. And that's not good, right? When it gets to the climax and you're about to lose it in an explosion from the lower regions, you move it upwards so you can then build up to another orgasm on another organism.

00;00;30;26 - 00;00;57;00
Speaker 1
Men and fathers are sometimes absent, either physically or emotionally, or they so then have to find something that you can appreciate about it. And if nothing else, you can appreciate the fact that he gave you life. We need to become soulful human beings again instead of just materialistic consumption. Animals like whatever lies in the way for you to fully own your life force will come painstakingly into focus.

00;00;57;00 - 00;01;09;25
Speaker 1
You will face your demons, you will face your pain, you will face your limitations. You can turn your sex life and your relationship into a source of ever increasing inspiration and joy.

00;01;10;04 - 00;01;40;17
Speaker 2
All right, my friends, welcome back to this new episode of The Way Show podcast. Today I have the great pleasure of having you here, Yuka. Good. And well, we go. We go some years back by now, and we're colleagues in this men's work business. And I guess we met as I met many other European leaders in this manifesto network that Paul Robson set up.

00;01;42;02 - 00;01;47;23
Speaker 2
And wasn't Sweden then the first men's gathering, Nordic men's gathering.

00;01;49;02 - 00;01;49;10
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;01;50;06 - 00;02;24;07
Speaker 2
And obviously you are best known for your work with sexuality. You've been working with men for a long time to help them maximize their sexual pleasure, teaching them how to be opponents. Yeah, but so we'll definitely get to know that part today. But you've also just released a book and you've developed this really neat framework of what makes a solid, mature man.

00;02;24;28 - 00;02;39;03
Speaker 2
And so while I'm just really excited to have you here today and seeing where we will go to together because, I mean, you've been thinking a lot about this and yeah, well, I think that's enough from from my side. Jacob, it's a pleasure to have you.

00;02;39;27 - 00;02;41;14
Speaker 1
Thank you. Ivan. Awesome.

00;02;42;09 - 00;03;06;06
Speaker 2
Yeah. So I think the place where I always like to start these conversations is digging in a bit more with you. Are you maybe a little bit under the surface as well? So why don't we start with how you would present what you do, what you care most about right now, and we'll see where we go.

00;03;07;25 - 00;03;11;24
Speaker 1
Sure. So. So do you mean like work wise or a little more or.

00;03;12;00 - 00;03;28;03
Speaker 2
Yeah, you have a purpose with men. You want to do something to support them. And you've been very dedicated in that line of work for a while. So what? What what brings you in there? Maybe. What? Why was it important for you in the first place?

00;03;28;22 - 00;03;52;04
Speaker 1
Sure. So, yeah, thanks for the question. I think, you know, it's it's it's it's kind of funny, you know, like. Like, you know, Alexander, our mutual friend from. From from Sweden. He said something that I. That I, I remembered which. Which is that, that the thing you do best is actually the, the thing you almost take for granted.

00;03;52;16 - 00;04;13;23
Speaker 1
But, but that other people are like, oh my God, how do you do that? You know? And they were like, they see that as a skill, but you do it so naturally that you hardly think about it. And I guess you could say I have a, I have a certain shamelessness around pleasure, I guess that many people get inspired about.

00;04;14;15 - 00;04;42;28
Speaker 1
And I think that is probably one of the I realize that that's a skill and that's something that I can pass on and I think that is a key thing that I transmit in my work with men on, on, on mobile for sexual master course, which I've been running for for the past ten years. Yes. This method that I, that I, that I invented ten years ago to to help us mastering our sexual energy as men.

00;04;44;07 - 00;05;18;17
Speaker 1
And yeah, a key there are several aspects to that in how you do it. But essentially it's really about you know the the the sexual energy and jumpy desire that we build up in our in our balls, our cocks or pelvic floor during masturbation or sex. You know, normally as men, sooner or later we come to this point where this energy reaches a certain climax down there and it triggers the spasms and the prostate on the pelvic floor muscles, and we pump out the sperm and over is the party.

00;05;20;09 - 00;05;46;21
Speaker 1
And and this practice that I developed and which comes from the tantric and our systems, but that I simplified and made more accessible to normal Western men is really about gaining so much sense sense with and control over that energy that you can right when it gets to the climax and you're about to lose it in an explosion from the lower regions, you move it upwards instead.

00;05;48;12 - 00;06;10;14
Speaker 1
And when you do that as a man, you can experience that, that, that it really it gives you a lot of extra energy. It feels incredibly yummy. You can you can experience that like like an orgasm moving throughout your whole upper body, your entire body for that matter. And what's really amazing about it is you think keep the energy because it stays in your body.

00;06;10;14 - 00;06;39;12
Speaker 1
You don't explicit through your cock, you keep it. So you can then build up to another orgasm and another orgasm and, and and, you know, there are some tricks and techniques on how to do that. And that's what I teach and that main program and, and a key aspect of it is also this psychology goal attitude to really shamelessly enjoy yourself, shamelessly enjoy your own sexual pleasure.

00;06;41;08 - 00;07;03;21
Speaker 1
So that's, that's a key aspect of that work. And, and yeah, I just had a had a mentoring client today that I got started on the practice and it's still, even though I've done it for many years, it's still very enjoyable for me to do it because I really see the effect that it has very fast on people because it's such a potent force as as we know, right?

00;07;03;21 - 00;07;23;17
Speaker 1
Our sexual energies is a very potent force. So if we learn to harness and use that correctly, it animates all the rest of our beings and can inspire us and and give us drive and life and and yeah, just just makes life more enjoyable. Yes.

00;07;25;03 - 00;07;49;26
Speaker 2
So this this field of whether you call it tantra or sexology or whatever terms that you apply, this is obviously become a lot more mainstream over the past years, decades now. But at the same time, it seems like there's increasing levels of sexual dysfunction in our and our society. And so there is this weird tension between the two.

00;07;49;26 - 00;08;03;20
Speaker 2
But well, there's something that brought you to this place was what was what was your story for like really starting to care about something that back then was quite esoteric?

00;08;04;29 - 00;08;33;22
Speaker 1
Oh well, that's a longer story. But I think I think it actually started all the way back in my in my teenage room when I, when I started masturbating on my own, I, I by accident, I guess I, I just stumbled upon the fact that by using a few bodily tricks, I could I could actually have like a mini orgasm spreading a bit up in my stomach without ejaculating.

00;08;33;28 - 00;08;52;24
Speaker 1
And it felt super nice. So I just made a habit out of doing that a number of times before then, ejaculating. And so that was like my, my first experience of it. But of course I didn't really know what it was back then. But then, but then the real journey around, particularly that around, around the sexual work started when I was 23.

00;08;53;15 - 00;09;29;09
Speaker 1
I got a girlfriend here in Copenhagen who pulled me in by the balls almost to to a tantric yoga school here in Copenhagen where where they work, particularly with with this technique, with with harnessing the sexual energy and moving it up through the chakras and all of this, like, yeah, with a quite esoteric approach, as you say. And, and you know, I was skeptical around, around the whole spiritual superstructure that they, that they had on around all of this.

00;09;31;03 - 00;10;00;17
Speaker 1
But I, but I was still curious enough to, to dive into it and, and, and very quickly I had had some very amazing experiences with it and experience like having multiple orgasms during sex with my then girlfriend and experienced how that gave me a lot extra energy and and more than energy also an experience of like a bit more so say stamina or feeling a little more psychologically, more grounded or centered.

00;10;01;03 - 00;10;08;20
Speaker 1
It's just feel like feels like like when I want to build up my energy in this way that it just took a little more to like, throw me off my ground. You know.

00;10;08;21 - 00;10;13;20
Speaker 2
What was that in life in general, or was it specific to the bedroom and saying.

00;10;13;20 - 00;10;33;06
Speaker 1
Oh, no, this definitely in life in general? Definitely. I just felt a little more solid in our, you know. Yeah. Like, like, like a ship, you know, that that sails with with it. You know, you take in a bit of water to lie more firmly in the, in the on the sea. Right. A little bit like that I feel a little more solid.

00;10;35;24 - 00;11;07;17
Speaker 1
So, so, so that started then and we were together for two years and did a lot of, you know, esoteric tantra exercises and yoga and this and that. And, and then after a couple of years, I, we broke up but are still very good friends to this day luckily. And then in my in my twenties, you know, I started studying philosophy and history at university and and started the company with some friends.

00;11;07;17 - 00;11;41;15
Speaker 1
But on the side I always kept my, my, my, I kept the practice going and experiment. It's with, with other lovers and girlfriends that I had did a lot of meditation, quite some Buddhist meditation, martial arts. So like, I guess I always had a had a had a deep interest in, in playing with the connections between mind and body, sex and spirit and yeah, seeing what could be derived from that realm.

00;11;44;06 - 00;12;17;29
Speaker 1
And then, and then to finish the story, then in my, in my late twenties I got another long term girlfriend who was also very deep in her spiritual practice, which was a completely different practice, an Italian girlfriend. But but somehow my, my work that I was quite experienced with at the time with, with my sexual energy and my meditation practices and the feel that she was coming from together, that was like, oh, like nuclear nuclear power that was released there.

00;12;17;29 - 00;12;23;06
Speaker 1
And I had some experiences with her during sex. I really like blew the lid off.

00;12;24;06 - 00;12;25;14
Speaker 2
What, you thought it was possible?

00;12;26;08 - 00;12;48;01
Speaker 1
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And it was after that that I like, like being like, catapulted out of the top of my head and in an orgasm, like was, was one of the peak experiences there, like an out-of-body experience, which was incredible. And, and it was after that that I was like, holy fuck this, this is too good to not be shared.

00;12;50;01 - 00;12;57;14
Speaker 1
And then a couple of years later was that I created the Bible for sexual master course because I that's business now.

00;12;57;14 - 00;12;59;03
Speaker 2
Or maybe that's your only business.

00;12;59;21 - 00;13;39;20
Speaker 1
And it's my main work. I have then expanded into into other fields as as we will also talk about in this podcast like like you did what a man am but but but it started with a sexual work and it's still the core of what I do. And then what I also found over the years teaching it was that not only can you get this amazing extra energy and, and use it for inspiration and creativity and whatnot, but, but the practice also solves a lot of very real challenges that men face sexually, like premature mission performing society, various aspects of erectile dysfunction.

00;13;40;05 - 00;14;04;05
Speaker 1
Most of them are solved through through this practice because it brings your your sexuality in balance again, after, you know, years of excessive porn use and excessive ejaculations and this and that, it brings it into balance. And when it's in balance, the symptoms of of it being an imbalance disappears. Yeah.

00;14;04;14 - 00;14;09;14
Speaker 2
And and and men and sexuality.

00;14;11;15 - 00;14;11;27
Speaker 1
Is.

00;14;12;09 - 00;14;23;27
Speaker 2
It's this funny thing at least in my experience in start with that that I'm obsessed with it if I don't have access to it.

00;14;23;27 - 00;14;25;12
Speaker 1
Or yeah.

00;14;26;01 - 00;14;43;14
Speaker 2
Yeah like I become somebody who thinks there's something wrong with me because I don't have access to it or like, there's this is very easy for us guys to make sex into something huge in the absence of.

00;14;44;03 - 00;14;44;24
Speaker 1
A functional.

00;14;45;09 - 00;15;09;05
Speaker 2
Sexual relationship. But once, once we actually get to a place of having a stable, committed partner. Ah, and the sex is good and it can last for as long as you want, all of a sudden, it's not something that occupies nearly as much energy. At least this is my experience. They are like doesn't take up so much mental space.

00;15;09;13 - 00;15;23;07
Speaker 2
Is this part of it as well that like men are moving towards more peace in their life, that they don't have all of these daydreams and obsessions because they don't feel fulfilled in sex? Or What is your experience with this?

00;15;23;23 - 00;15;26;08
Speaker 1
Like like you mean for people who are on long term relationships?

00;15;26;28 - 00;15;56;05
Speaker 2
No, I'm talking about the people who don't have access to sex and that that that have that feel like they need to turn to porn to feel in touch with a feminine form and energy and and there's this obsessive like you get really stuck in your head and in your thought patterns. Right. And it seems like there is a maturing process through the crucible and age of sexuality where you start to come to more rest with yourself as a man.

00;15;56;22 - 00;16;23;26
Speaker 1
Like, yeah, ideally, sure. For for those who are aware of that and take that journey, it can lead there. Sure. Yes. But I think, as you say, many people, I think it's very easy nowadays to fall prey to to the whole pornography machine. I agree in one story which it basically is. Right. I think this is this is a little sad, actually.

00;16;23;26 - 00;16;52;29
Speaker 1
And and I think we don't speak so much of it, but I think you know, as men and we are primed by nature to be ready to to give our sperm to to any available woman. Right. And that's just how it is. We can learn to master that. And we should. But but, but, but it's a strong impulse and I think pornography and a very easy access to it that there is nowadays with like two clicks on your phone.

00;16;52;29 - 00;17;32;28
Speaker 1
It I think really preys on that and it's and if you're not aware as men it's very very easy to fall into that trap, even if you're in a relationship and the sex life is maybe not functioning amazingly for a period, it's easy to fall into into the porn trap. And I think the very sad thing that that that that does, if you really become addicted to it, is that it can very easily alienate you from your partner or if you're a single, alienates you from any real life interaction with the woman you might meet because you're so used to what you what you see on the screen.

00;17;32;28 - 00;17;58;13
Speaker 1
Right. And also it really makes your sexuality extremely bound up on the visual, which means that your sexual energy is going to stay in your head and in your cock and and and not so much in your heart and not so much in the rest of your body. And and and the key aspect of the work that I do is to to to try to, first of all, get people off porn.

00;17;58;17 - 00;18;17;26
Speaker 1
You can use your fantasies a bit if you like, but also try to minimize them and then really get it into your body. Feel that the sexual energy and the and the desire and the energy feel it in your body and connected to the oil. That's really where the transformation lies.

00;18;18;08 - 00;18;23;22
Speaker 2
So that's the movement from the visual and the mental to actually connecting it with your body.

00;18;24;03 - 00;18;25;26
Speaker 1
Yeah yeah very much.

00;18;26;08 - 00;18;28;28
Speaker 2
Is that for struggle you feel the men have?

00;18;29;06 - 00;18;48;02
Speaker 1
It's, it's, it's a major struggle. It's not the only one but, but it's definitely a major struggle that the many of us fall into. I mean, we are as men I think by default, very visual when it comes to sex. We like to see all shapes and forms and feminine and feminine forms. So. So to some extent that's natural.

00;18;48;02 - 00;19;01;07
Speaker 1
But porn only exacerbates that, like manyfold. Yeah, and that's not good. It takes you out of the moment, out of out of your body and out of the connection with your with your partner.

00;19;01;24 - 00;19;05;19
Speaker 2
Yeah, it does. What is the hard factor in there?

00;19;05;19 - 00;19;06;24
Speaker 1
What the heart to heart.

00;19;08;06 - 00;19;16;20
Speaker 2
The heart. Where does that factor into this? Like, so you have the the visual, the brain, you have the body. But what about the heart Is that important?

00;19;17;13 - 00;19;47;20
Speaker 1
It's super important. I mean, the heart is really where the heart is, really where you where you connect on on a level that is not just merely physical, which I mean, you connect with your genitals, of course, during sex, that that's great. But if you but if you only do that and you don't also connect with the heart, like with the more emotional and you might even say a non-material part of you if you don't connect there, then it's just two people rubbing genitals together.

00;19;48;03 - 00;19;56;10
Speaker 1
Yes, it can be nice. You can get a five second orgasm and you can fall asleep. But that's that's what most people do, I guess.

00;19;56;10 - 00;19;59;26
Speaker 2
But but I have the feeling that this is very common these days.

00;20;00;06 - 00;20;27;15
Speaker 1
It's extremely common. I think it was always fairly common, probably. I don't think it was much better during Christianity, to be honest. No, but, but, but the point of the matter is that it can be so much more. You can, if you want, you can turn your your sex life and your relationship into a source of ever increasing inspiration and joy and life force.

00;20;28;03 - 00;20;34;08
Speaker 1
And why not do that? Like, I mean, once you've experienced, you're like, hell, no, I'm never going to let go of this.

00;20;36;12 - 00;20;46;21
Speaker 2
It's an interesting story that you have where you you practically discover your life purpose in your bedroom as a teenager.

00;20;47;04 - 00;20;54;29
Speaker 1
Yeah. Yeah. So that yeah, I didn't know back then. I wouldn't have imagined that I would be no doing. So yeah, it.

00;20;55;08 - 00;21;23;20
Speaker 2
Makes me wonder how many actually did. And then just like, brush it aside. But what do you think? This is not a typical story that you have a guy that has some sort of a subtle body pick experiences when he's young and then he translate that translates that to a a professional level and spiritual path as he becomes a man, an adult.

00;21;24;01 - 00;21;34;13
Speaker 2
Is is there something unique about you that this happened? Why do you think that you were given this particular early experience and gift?

00;21;36;25 - 00;21;56;26
Speaker 1
Well, you never know. Even I mean, it depends from what point of view you you want to answer that question Like from one perspective, you might simply say, hey, it was a coincidence. And I just I stumbled upon it and I and I and I happened to actually pick it up and was over crazy enough to try to turn a profession.

00;21;56;26 - 00;22;31;18
Speaker 1
And I managed on another level and I know you like the the deeper or higher levels, as do I. I well, I do think that I was meant to do this, actually. And I think when I when I look back on on the experiences that I've had with women and girlfriends and and like like I can see a trail, you know, I can see I have learned so much from the girlfriends that I've had.

00;22;32;25 - 00;23;00;02
Speaker 1
Also one who was somewhat older than me that I oh my God, I learned so much, I wouldn't be who I am today if I hadn't been with her. And I can see there there were many things that that played together to to to bring me to this point where it had something to teach on these issues. So so, you know, I think there are higher forces that that sometimes have a plan with us and try to not just in different directions.

00;23;01;13 - 00;23;12;12
Speaker 1
And I choose to believe that that was also the case with me. Then we can sometimes and all of those things or we can listen to them. Yeah, but I think it's generally better when we listen.

00;23;14;18 - 00;23;26;10
Speaker 2
Yeah, and you did. And I know based on your 12, what was the name of these?

00;23;26;13 - 00;23;29;21
Speaker 1
12, 12 men.

00;23;30;28 - 00;23;48;25
Speaker 2
12 steps for becoming a man. Yeah. So there are, there are quite a few lists lately, like ten rules for life. And here's the 1212 steps to becoming a man. And I guess this came after your work with the sexuality.

00;23;48;27 - 00;24;31;02
Speaker 1
Like, Sure. Yeah. So this is. Yeah, this is where it expands a bit like, like the, the work with the sexual energy and mastering your sexual energy as has been the key work that I that I have been doing professionally and that I've really like developed and, and, and they also now written a book about that just mentioned below sex in Danish better sex man which just came out half a year ago but but but you're you're right I mean my I think ever since I was I was very young, you know I think I've always been extremely curious in life.

00;24;31;06 - 00;25;03;21
Speaker 1
And I always had ever since I was a child, I had a very, very active inner life and very strong dreams. Sometimes I had strong nightmares and really a feeling of like having some very strong forces inside that, that it was not always easy to manage. And that's a long story. But but, but, but, but I had to manage it, otherwise it would have told me apart.

00;25;03;21 - 00;25;24;02
Speaker 1
And it nearly did a couple of times. And so I think that that challenge that I was given by life and just prompted me to to, to, to find ways to deal with it and find ways to work with myself and find ways to to balance these strong inner forces that I that that that I that I have found in myself.

00;25;25;28 - 00;25;57;29
Speaker 1
So that whole long journey over the past 20, 25 years has has given me a lot of experiences and and has also and helped me find some very interesting tools. And, and then some years ago, I think around the time that I met you at the Nordic, the first Nordic men's gathering and I, I was in Italy at a, at a special place that I that I've come many times.

00;25;58;20 - 00;26;21;11
Speaker 1
And I had I had an inspired moment and I was like, okay, like what if what if I should create a curriculum for men based on the most useful things that I have found and work with myself in my life? Like, like something that it would benefit every man regardless of skin color and culture and upbringing and this and that.

00;26;21;11 - 00;26;49;12
Speaker 1
Something that no matter if you're a man and you're in a male body, then it will benefit you to work with with these things in order to build yourself as a as a man, as a as a mature adult man, what would it be? And then I put together these what I call the 12 steps towards becoming a man, which you can find as a as a blog post on on my website do.

00;26;50;26 - 00;26;55;09
Speaker 2
We'll make we'll make sure to attach that link to the podcast.

00;26;55;27 - 00;27;34;24
Speaker 1
Sure. Yeah. And I'm thinking that that will also become a book and probably a program one day. It hasn't yet, but, but, but I use it in my coaching with people whenever it's relevant. And it's really an attempt to Yeah. To like cover all the central aspects of life as a as an adult male human being. And it should be said also that that many of these steps are relevant for women to some of them will maybe look a little differently the way you work with them.

00;27;34;24 - 00;27;49;02
Speaker 1
But but, but I think most of them would be relevant for women, too. I just know how they played out in my life. And I work mainly with men. And so so I presented it in a language and in a way that I think speaks speaks generally to me.

00;27;50;10 - 00;28;16;13
Speaker 2
I'm thinking that we don't need to go through them one by one. In our conversation in today. But I do know that there are well, for me, some some things stood out in the context of our conversation today. You have some some reflections around our relationship to our mother and our father, for instance. Sure. Why don't you look a little bit at the steps that you consider to be essential in our relationship to those two?

00;28;16;13 - 00;28;40;00
Speaker 2
Because at the end of the day, as much as we would like it not to be the case, Freud was right about a lot of things. Let's just say that and our relationship very early on with these two formative figures, it it shapes us in such deep ways. And you have some thoughts about that in these in these steps.

00;28;40;19 - 00;28;44;11
Speaker 2
So why don't you take us through your reflections around mom and Dad?

00;28;45;11 - 00;29;09;22
Speaker 1
With pleasure. That is that is step two and seven in in in the 12 steps. And mastering your sexual energies is the third one. It's also there, of course. And yeah, they think they could have any order but but but in any case the second one is the mother one and I call it detach from and create a grown up relationship with your mother.

00;29;12;11 - 00;29;56;22
Speaker 1
And I think I think it's actually pretty spot on table, if I may say so, because I think I think that really encapsulate what's the issue, what the issue is. I think many people nowadays, and especially many, many men do not detach properly from their mothers. You know, every every tribal society on the planet has some pretty intense rites of passage to to for for for the young kids and especially the young boys to to detach from the mother world of infinite love and nourishment and care and go into the the world of the of the men of the tribe.

00;29;56;22 - 00;30;18;24
Speaker 1
And it was a very, very some of them some of these advisor passages were super dangerous and some boys didn't make it through, like some of it was like, survive three days on the job on your own and then come back if you make it or stuff like that. Right? But of course that was a completely different society and, and it was a tough world that you had to, to, to, to, to live in.

00;30;18;24 - 00;31;03;03
Speaker 1
So some of that might have been necessary back then. I don't think it is today. But but, but the point is that I think all of these tribal societies knew that that the mother child and in this case the mother son bond is so strong that you need to to to make a very strong, clear cut to to break it to to fully take the child into being an autonomous, self-reliant adult individual that can take care of itself and find its own food and ultimately become a contributing member of the tribe instead of a child that just takes nourishment and and care.

00;31;03;03 - 00;31;17;24
Speaker 1
Right. And and and we don't have these rites of passage anymore. I think, you know, our new Rubenstein or dear friend from Australia he works a lot with this I think he does a great job and maybe.

00;31;17;25 - 00;31;31;04
Speaker 2
In his room was always meant to be as sort of a modern reclaiming a throne. The initiation that was always meant to be a contemporary offering to to address this hole in our culture.

00;31;32;00 - 00;31;50;21
Speaker 1
That makes sense when you say it. I hadn't thought that, actually. But but, but that makes very much sense. And I think, you know, we find I think that's also one of rubinstein's honorable style points that if if no one creates a rite of passage for the boys, then then some of them find a way to do it on their own.

00;31;50;21 - 00;32;14;28
Speaker 1
And it's typically by doing something dangerous, which, you know, young men have a tendency to do. Right. And it's not just because they're stupid and reckless, it's also because they're actually longing for for for four for some boundary or some like, I think longing for four for their own mortality in a way to feel like like what are the limits here, right.

00;32;15;17 - 00;32;36;06
Speaker 1
And if they had strong, strong male elders who could show them the way and like say, hey, this is the limit and this is your path in life and this is how you can grow as a man, and this is how you can mature and create a great life. And then they probably wouldn't need that. They wouldn't need to do these, like, reckless things on their own and rebel against everything.

00;32;37;02 - 00;32;44;13
Speaker 1
I think they do that because they don't have good and strong, inspiring role models that they can emulate. Yeah.

00;32;45;23 - 00;33;17;22
Speaker 2
What do you think about this, Jacob, I, I see this intense experience that the young boys, the young men had back in the day says. So obviously a very formative experience and we certainly lack that. But when I think of, for instance, gang members in urban inner city gangs that may maybe kill a rival gang member as some form of initiation and obviously some of them may die and die in the process.

00;33;17;22 - 00;33;19;22
Speaker 2
But it's it's like this really.

00;33;20;17 - 00;33;20;29
Speaker 1
Sure.

00;33;21;23 - 00;33;50;03
Speaker 2
This this soul, this contemporary version, this this really dark, malicious, contemporary version of it. Not that the ancient tribal rituals were altogether love and light based on based on what we know about them. But but I think I think it is worth considering that there is the ritual itself, and then there is the social contract that you step in after the ritual is complete.

00;33;50;13 - 00;34;25;03
Speaker 2
The truth is that I feel like when people get addicted to these really vicious criminal gang environments, they're also within a social contract or at the very least they're being perceived in a particular kind of way because they have done some things. And I wonder, Man, if our culture has become so ignorant at this point that regardless of whether we did the intense thing, if if we didn't come back to our family and our community and they looked at us in a different way.

00;34;25;26 - 00;34;27;07
Speaker 1
You know, I wonder.

00;34;28;10 - 00;34;38;26
Speaker 2
How how much of how much of this initiative we experience is the experience and how much of it is the way that you are perceived.

00;34;39;02 - 00;34;40;07
Speaker 1
As a tribe.

00;34;40;08 - 00;34;41;18
Speaker 2
Know you have been through it.

00;34;42;04 - 00;35;08;24
Speaker 1
Yeah, it's a huge part, I think. I know Ana speaks about that, too. Like how, when, when, when you take the stage in your initiation, everyone else around you also has to take a step in relation to you because you're at a new stage in life, you're a different person with a different role, and that's very important. If they don't, you can easily like kind of push you back down to, to, to an earlier stage, right.

00;35;09;09 - 00;35;32;09
Speaker 1
Or just inhibit your inhibit, your growth. That's very bad. Yeah, that's a really good what I experienced, you know, because without knowing it, I did my own rite of passage to when I was 19. I left Denmark hitchhiking down through Europe and like, you know, some things happened and I just thought I needed to get away for a little bit for a month and mull things over.

00;35;33;09 - 00;35;57;17
Speaker 1
And then it's just, you know, one thing led to another, and I ended up on this like nine months long journey around the Mediterranean, whereas, you know, I ended up walking three days in the desert of Israel in some desperate attempt to find something. That's a long story. But when I came back from there, I was a completely different person.

00;35;57;24 - 00;36;27;27
Speaker 1
And and I came back like like an alien that had landed from another planet. But but definitely not like the like the if big boy that left. But my mum still treated me like that big boy. Yeah. And my old friends also just saw the Jacob who went away. Right. And, and it was, it was really, really hard, you know, like, like and also I didn't really have the words back then to really convey what had really happened to me.

00;36;27;27 - 00;36;52;29
Speaker 1
So, so I also it was also very hard for me to really like, bring them up to date with where I was. And that was super hard. So so I think what you say they with the social contract, that's incredibly important. And I think back then, I think I actually reacted in the only way that I that I probably could back then, which was to basically cut the people out who I didn't feel saw me for where I was.

00;36;52;29 - 00;36;54;14
Speaker 1
And that was most people at the time.

00;36;54;15 - 00;36;55;18
Speaker 2
Did that include your mother?

00;36;56;13 - 00;37;22;25
Speaker 1
Yeah, I did. It did for a couple of years. I rediscovering for for a couple of years I think this is and that's that's the point maybe in relation to the to the to the second step you know that the 12 steps did touch from and create a grown up relationship with your mother because because I did detach there and it was necessary for me to like, you know, become a man and really feel my own power and stand my own power and my own authority, which it really is.

00;37;24;28 - 00;37;43;21
Speaker 1
But then some things happened in our family. And after a couple of years, yes, it's something that happened that also changed her quite a lot and shook her worldview. And after that, I experienced that. She actually also saw me in a new light.

00;37;44;06 - 00;37;46;20
Speaker 2
Oh, that's wonderful. Not everyone is that lucky.

00;37;46;20 - 00;38;13;21
Speaker 1
Yeah, well, I waited for it and let it happen. Yeah, and it was able then to actually be there for her in a Yeah. Where I was kind of the bigger one and that really changed the dynamic and the power dynamic between us. I think this little boy I was, I was someone helping her. Yeah. Yeah. Both us.

00;38;15;06 - 00;38;54;09
Speaker 2
Yeah. I guess that's how it goes, really. When we grow older is like this. The roles reversed. But I was thinking, Jacob, about this, this particular mother son situation that our relationship, that step two is it's all about. I think it's hard and especially maybe not, but I don't exactly know why it's like this, but I lay some of the blame at the feet of feminism that and that I think it's hard for women to to recognize.

00;38;55;16 - 00;38;56;16
Speaker 1
And honor.

00;38;56;16 - 00;38;58;05
Speaker 2
The masculine experience.

00;38;58;25 - 00;39;01;04
Speaker 1
You know, for for many women, you know.

00;39;01;12 - 00;39;28;28
Speaker 2
They haven't had any to tell them about it that was qualified in imparting the information or they have been resistant because of cultural programing and then, of course, there are those who are different. But I think this is in general a big challenge. And it's also the biological bond that is, you know, one. So Michelle and I were expecting a boy in literally less than two months.

00;39;29;23 - 00;39;31;06
Speaker 1
That's a man. Yeah.

00;39;31;06 - 00;39;54;03
Speaker 2
It is amazing. And of course, it's changing how I see myself and the world and I'm my future. And of course, it's happening with Michelle as well. It's been a very rich journey. But one of the things that I'm already mindful of and I'm like starting to plant little seeds, it's that she because that's her nature, is going to cling to him.

00;39;55;02 - 00;39;59;00
Speaker 1
Yeah, which is fine for the first many years.

00;40;00;18 - 00;40;09;04
Speaker 2
And then there is that time when it's no longer fine and a lot of a lot of mothers are not able to take that step gracefully.

00;40;09;21 - 00;40;41;13
Speaker 1
That's true. And it's probably partially, as you say, because of the feminism that has maybe gone a little overboard. And in some places in our culture, but I think is actually me. I think we actually also have to just honor and recognize how powerful the mother archetype is when it takes over a woman. Thank God, because we need all consuming all know.

00;40;41;13 - 00;40;44;18
Speaker 2
How you stayed up a little straighter when you start talking of this.

00;40;46;05 - 00;41;04;16
Speaker 1
But we need that right When when we're a little help as infants, we just need that motherly love. We need the reading that we came out of. We need the softness and the care, the love and everything. So we need that, that mothers, the women get taken over literally by this archetype as it is and become mothers. Right.

00;41;04;29 - 00;41;37;09
Speaker 1
I think there's a reason why nature made that archetype so strong, because, you know, our species wouldn't have been here without super dedicated mothers. So. So that's, that's, that's fine. But, but, but what we also need then is a fucking proper rite of passage and men who can lovingly but firmly step in when the time is there and help transition the the boy, the child into a beginning manhood.

00;41;37;23 - 00;41;58;27
Speaker 1
Because women can do that very, very few women can can really fully honestly do that. I think I think there there there pull towards still that I think I'm not a mother, I'm not a woman. But but I think the experience of just being that channel of like unconditional love it must feel so amazing, right? You are alive.

00;41;58;27 - 00;42;06;04
Speaker 1
It's just coming through your pain. Like, like I think the addiction towards that is is so strong.

00;42;06;26 - 00;42;15;22
Speaker 2
All the shadow support obviously is the devouring mother. Where look where it appears as if the woman possessed by the archetype.

00;42;16;10 - 00;42;16;19
Speaker 1
Is.

00;42;16;23 - 00;42;22;00
Speaker 2
Generous and loving, but is actually feeding the hole in her own heart.

00;42;23;07 - 00;42;44;24
Speaker 1
Sure. And the addiction to food to to being a channel of life and love. Right. Right. And your your nurture, is it the is it the media, the myth from Greece with this woman who ends up eating her own children literally, because that's what that's what motherly love and nourishment becomes if it if it's not stopped at one point.

00;42;44;24 - 00;42;48;20
Speaker 1
Yeah. And so that child from growing and becoming an autonomous.

00;42;48;20 - 00;43;10;20
Speaker 2
Being and I guess that's the rite of passage and you start moving into the world of father and of course, then it will be really important that if you, if you go on some life altering, really existential and potentially dangerous quest, you don't want to come you don't want to come home to, I don't know, Sunday roast with your mum and have the question, how is your cute little holiday?

00;43;10;20 - 00;43;25;06
Speaker 2
You know, So so that's going to be important for her to really understand that. But then but then who knows if that's going to happen any time soon? We hope we could hope that there is a cultural renaissance in understanding.

00;43;26;01 - 00;43;26;13
Speaker 1
Sure.

00;43;26;25 - 00;43;55;25
Speaker 2
Yeah. But then of course, there is the time when the mother archetype has sort of run its course, and at least in that biologically enmeshed way and and the boy needs to start breaking free into the man's world. And so that brings us to to the the other principle and I know that I don't know is is is is there a particular sequence to this is is this meant to be linear or.

00;43;56;21 - 00;43;58;14
Speaker 1
Like the 12 steps think.

00;43;58;23 - 00;44;00;19
Speaker 2
EPS, does seven come after two?

00;44;01;14 - 00;44;24;05
Speaker 1
Yeah, I think I think in this case it does with mother and father. Right. Because we come out of our mothers literally and we are in her world and the beginning of our lives also after after we were born. Now, for us, as the world of the father is something we can move towards with. I think Alexander and the psychoanalysts are very right in that.

00;44;24;05 - 00;44;36;21
Speaker 1
So there, there is a progression with the rest of the 12 steps. There are not completely linear like I think some of the first ones make sense to work with first because they kind of lay the ground for some of the later ones.

00;44;37;03 - 00;44;41;29
Speaker 2
But maybe you just quickly just speak through them without us needing to discuss every one so that.

00;44;43;15 - 00;45;07;13
Speaker 1
Just give you the titles. We can do the number one. And I call Bill True Brotherhood with other men. Mm hmm. Which is, I think, a fundamental experience that we need to have is as as as men, like being in a group of men that we feel that we fit in and we can contribute and we're recognized and we're respected, which is also the very strong experience that the suburban gang members get.

00;45;07;13 - 00;45;27;11
Speaker 1
As, as you mentioned, you get that there to to in a way that you probably don't get in many other places. And there is the number to detach from and create a grown up relationship with your mother, like where ultimately you become equal adults. And number three, muster your sexual energy which is been the main work that I do.

00;45;27;20 - 00;45;57;00
Speaker 1
Yes. Number four, I call the fundamental meditation experience. I am not my thoughts, emotions and bodily sensations. You can have different ways. I had it on your passion of meditation retreats a number of times can be this is a whole thing that is on its own, but it's just very, very powerful to be able to sit through the intensity of of of bodily experiences and pain and inner experiences and this and that.

00;45;57;12 - 00;46;32;12
Speaker 1
And just notice as you sit there days on end, that it all comes and goes again. And if you just sit and stay with it, it, it, it comes and goes and you are ultimately the same. And any and whatever experience you have could even transform as you simply sit and observe it, finding that that center of of of, of gravity within your own consciousness is is is such a gift and can even be used very, very well in other aspects of life.

00;46;32;12 - 00;46;38;00
Speaker 1
For instance, with mastering your sexual sexuality or dealing with your woman. Yeah.

00;46;38;11 - 00;46;39;22
Speaker 2
Subtle body work. Yeah.

00;46;40;15 - 00;47;12;22
Speaker 1
So that's like, yeah, yeah, yeah. See if I can be a little faster. Maybe. So. Number five, I call the master aggression and fear prove discipline and commitment. So essentially the challenge of of is also very good to do as your as your young setting yourself some kind of goal and and learning how to channel your innate aggression as a man towards that will use it for something useful and go through the obstacles of fear that that might deter you from it.

00;47;13;15 - 00;47;40;17
Speaker 1
And cultivating discipline and commitment to actually do it. Very important for you to be able to actually trust and trust yourself to get something done. And then also for other people to trust you in getting something done. So it's like a building of trust in your own abilities, basically. Number six called Embrace and integrate your inner feminine. We can have a whole philosophical debate about what what the feminine actually is.

00;47;40;17 - 00;48;03;14
Speaker 1
But but I think it is a useful word and we could consider it. Maybe you're you're a softer and more vulnerable science as a man and so super important to get in touch with the two so you don't become overly hard. Number seven is then the father. One Honor your father, but become your own world. And we can talk more about that in a moment.

00;48;04;18 - 00;48;32;19
Speaker 1
Number eight I call accept death as a fact of life and as a path of evolution. And we could talk more about that one, too. But but let's just take the rest. The number nine is a find your final live, your purpose, living from a place of meaning. So like, that's like coming to the point of doing something that actually really motivates you in your life and not just living 20%.

00;48;33;24 - 00;48;52;10
Speaker 1
And number ten, I think I deal with and thrive toward deal with and thrive amongst highly feminine women without losing focus and without being an asshole. So that's basically finding the middle path between, you know, knowing when to set your boundaries.

00;48;52;17 - 00;48;55;00
Speaker 2
It sounds like like a David data kind of idea.

00;48;55;04 - 00;49;24;28
Speaker 1
Yeah, a little bit. A little guy nowadays, I would maybe frame it slightly differently, but. But it's really about, you know, out of staying in a long term committed relationship while actually maintaining polarity and attraction. Yes, because most people fail at that nowadays. Yes, I'm. How how do you do that? How do you keep that polarity and interaction strong over time while still also keeping the love strong and and and having a committed relationship?

00;49;26;02 - 00;49;55;03
Speaker 1
That's a big one. And the number 11 I call a investigate and challenge the cornerstones of your worldview, which is a little more working on the on the on the mental worldview level, like the convictions that I have built into my system, that I have accepted as truths throughout my life, are they actually serving me? Are they actually in line with my real values?

00;49;55;23 - 00;50;13;29
Speaker 1
Should I change some of them? So this is a this is a step you maybe only do once or twice in your life. But but but very important to do to actually take a full check is my is my worldview actually coherent with how I really want to live. And then.

00;50;14;26 - 00;50;15;23
Speaker 2
For a lot of us.

00;50;16;09 - 00;50;46;28
Speaker 1
As super tough, so and most of us when we do that one like really in-depth, where we most of us realize that there is a cornerstone or do we, we we probably have to throw away now or change significantly. And that can be tough. And then the last one I call embrace mysticism, embrace the unknown. And that's the one where I invite people to to to take somewhat of a spiritual perspective on life.

00;50;47;17 - 00;51;19;26
Speaker 1
That's that. Yeah. Be open for the unexpected I'd be open for guidance that can come to you in life in ways that cannot be explained by the rational mind, but can nevertheless be extremely useful if you if you learn to listen and and also be open to your own, you know, all these 12 steps or 11 before is about building your self as a as an adults person, basically.

00;51;19;26 - 00;51;37;11
Speaker 1
Right. But I think the last one here for me is also about finding your innocence again. And that Playboy which which you were at one point having access to him still because there's a lot of renewal and just joy and ease of life that that comes from that place.

00;51;39;09 - 00;52;10;04
Speaker 2
There's this passage in the Bible. I think it's Matthew 18 three that keeps returning to me, and I'm very much paraphrasing and mangling it, but something a like in order to enter the kingdom of heaven, you need to become like little children. And for me, that's been a central passage in my work for a long time. And I do believe that I, I notice that the word God was absent in your list.

00;52;10;09 - 00;52;12;12
Speaker 2
But I guess this is where I would say.

00;52;12;24 - 00;52;15;16
Speaker 1
Yeah, you could fit in here. Yeah, yeah.

00;52;16;06 - 00;52;29;22
Speaker 2
Yeah. So that our relationship to God and even to sovereignty, which is kind of a mind fuck for a lot of guys, is actually sourced in innocence.

00;52;31;00 - 00;53;02;19
Speaker 1
Yeah, Yeah. You know. Yeah, that's beautiful. But I think, I mean, if anything, if we play with the idea that there is, that there is a creator of the world, right. What is the most divine attribute we can think of. I think it's exactly, it's creativity. Like if some force created the world right and created us, like when are we most gods?

00;53;03;00 - 00;53;29;19
Speaker 1
We are when we created I think is is our most divine attribute in a sense. It's our creativity. And when we are kids, we are extremely creative. So and I think this is so important for me to, to, to, to, to stay in touch with still, like, like in my life. I think in to a great extent, I'm I'm still just a kid playing, you know, like, like what works in this existence here.

00;53;31;06 - 00;53;37;05
Speaker 1
And this is this is where my courses come from. It comes from the from that. Yes.

00;53;37;05 - 00;53;42;29
Speaker 2
From that kid that is just having fun exploring his body in the, you know.

00;53;43;19 - 00;54;15;11
Speaker 1
Yeah, sure. And playing the for in the building case of my friends and you know Yeah. Yeah. I think there's nothing we can do when we when we're in touch with that. And also there's a crap on it in our lives and the school system really takes it away from us to, to a great extent. And you got to, you've got to struggle to or not struggle actually the opposite of struggle, but you got to reduce it if you want to, to stay connected with that part of yourself.

00;54;16;01 - 00;54;23;27
Speaker 2
It's true. And I do think that the school system is extremely flawed in that it more or less attacks this.

00;54;24;09 - 00;54;24;16
Speaker 1
Yeah.

00;54;25;06 - 00;54;47;11
Speaker 2
And I even see the United Nation United Nations, which is an organization that I have less and less respect for, is they are they are now wanting to streamline education and they're encouraging countries around the world to ban home schooling should now be a crime to homeschool.

00;54;48;14 - 00;54;48;24
Speaker 1
Yes.

00;54;49;12 - 00;55;19;29
Speaker 2
And so we're like we're we're in a totalitarian race to to kill the innocents and all human beings. And I, I absolutely abhor this. And I think it's so important, you know, as a as a as a as men. And let's turn back to the father quickly before we move to your vision for the future. But like, if there's anything that I'm feeling is like, okay, so as a man, it's my fucking duty to stand as a boundary between the world and my, my boys innocence.

00;55;20;12 - 00;55;38;26
Speaker 2
Like it cannot be me who destroys it. Of course there will be moments because I think this is how the evolutionary journey of parenting, of growing up actually works. You have to lose your innocence in some.

00;55;38;26 - 00;55;40;28
Speaker 1
Way or another. You have all of your.

00;55;40;28 - 00;55;48;25
Speaker 2
To regain it and I'm sure I'm going to end up with the blame for some of that. But at what may be all of it for us.

00;55;48;26 - 00;55;53;26
Speaker 1
Yeah, but but but remember the I'm.

00;55;53;29 - 00;56;04;00
Speaker 2
I'm going to do my damnedest to try and protect that part of him from the mind numbing, soulless machinery of our of our culture.

00;56;04;16 - 00;56;25;25
Speaker 1
That that's sure. I think I think there is, I think everything that you say is I agree like, like we have to lose it to some extent. Right. Or at least we have to that That's again, again to think like we need to get out of the world of the mother where everything is just a happy place. And we're loved completely for who we are unconditionally.

00;56;25;25 - 00;56;43;26
Speaker 1
And love and nourishment is just flowing into the world of being an adult where, hey, stuff is expected from you, right? You can just run around like a happy narcissist little creature. You have to like, show up and you have to be disciplined and you have to like stand up to your word and this and that, right? That that's becoming an adult.

00;56;43;26 - 00;57;04;01
Speaker 1
And sure, you will probably let the little innocent bore a little in the background in that process. But but I think I think one of the best things that I mean you can do for your coming son is to be in touch with that part of yourself. Yes. Because then you will show him that, hey, you can actually be that as a grown up man.

00;57;04;19 - 00;57;10;04
Speaker 1
You don't have to become boring or debt or this or that, Right? You can still be alive.

00;57;11;00 - 00;57;45;01
Speaker 2
Yeah. I've been noticing the work of what's his name? Rafe Kelly. I know of him through Mark Walsh, the and the guy who runs the embodiment company and his he was literally on with just on the way to Jordan Peterson and I just started watching it. But but the whole conversation was on the importance of rough and tumble play and how and how absolutely critical it is for the kids and maybe particularly boys, but I think also girls to develop boundaries, but also empathy.

00;57;45;14 - 00;58;15;11
Speaker 2
So it's in the process of fully engaging your body in really close tussle and play with somebody else that you learn in an embodied way where it's too much and where he's just right and where it's not enough. And if you don't learn that at an early age, you're you're you get you get really messed like you have like a developmental trauma that may not be able to fully heal.

00;58;16;09 - 00;58;18;21
Speaker 1
Yeah. You know, I think you.

00;58;21;19 - 00;58;48;00
Speaker 2
And it's like this is one of the this is one of my roles as a father. Like I'm getting a bit like, excited and carried away by this now. But I'm just imagining, you know, because Michelle she's she's the sweetest woman. I love her to bits and she's like she's worried that like the tip of a fork has touched the kitchen counter and that now it needs to be washed before we can use that again.

00;58;48;11 - 00;59;07;26
Speaker 2
And I'm like, that doesn't make any sense to me. To me, that's like madness, you know? And and then I realized that there is this risk that she's going to create this world view for this little boy, that everything's dangerous. And I will not allow that to happen. And that's why it's this rough, rough and tumble play.

00;59;08;21 - 00;59;38;18
Speaker 1
As you write this very good. You know, that's true. Yeah. I mean, I think I think many mothers, of course, women are all different, but but but I think yeah, I think we know our mothers, so they tend to worry a little overly much. Yes. But I think I think it's maybe just part of their nature. Right. Like, like, like having having gone with this creature in their in their room for for so long.

00;59;38;18 - 00;59;57;07
Speaker 1
Of course they are so and we are super fragile when we come out. So I think it's just where there has to be a healthy balance. Right. And I think that's that's the archetypal role of the father and to to to show, hey, you know, life is actually fun outside of that safe little mother bubble. You can play and you can rough and tumble.

00;59;57;07 - 00;59;59;11
Speaker 1
And if you hurt, you hurt, you mess up and.

00;59;59;11 - 01;00;03;00
Speaker 2
You and that's okay. Actually, we had her a little bit.

01;00;03;18 - 01;00;10;27
Speaker 1
Afraid of the world. And you can always run back to the mother world as a as a young kid. And then when you get your love, you can come back and play with data.

01;00;11;24 - 01;00;22;13
Speaker 2
I wonder I mean, we went off on a little bit of a tangent and I take responsibility for that. But I wonder if we're if we're in a way covering seven already narrative our way.

01;00;23;06 - 01;00;44;28
Speaker 1
What we could maybe say one thing, right? Because I think the fall, the wound is also very big today, right? Like here we're describing I think what what what would probably be a pretty ideal scenario of how how mother and dad could could support each other in a in an archetypal way, of course. And then of course, there are differences in personalities.

01;00;45;10 - 01;01;06;08
Speaker 1
You might have a dad sometimes it was a was a softer guy and who was a little more careful and a mom, a little more rough and tumble. It can be like there can be all sorts of differences. Right. But but I think archetypal is speaking. This is this is probably a dynamic that that would which would be the case for for many people for many months as if they made it work right.

01;01;08;04 - 01;01;30;03
Speaker 1
But then I think, you know, of course, you know, for whatever reason, men and fathers are sometimes absent either physically or emotionally or this or that, or they didn't work on themselves. And they have their own traumas and this and that. So so I think, you know, many of us experience that our father was not available for us to the extent or in the way that we would have wanted to.

01;01;30;25 - 01;01;51;08
Speaker 1
I think I think when I did some tests with some of my male friends, sometimes it was like I think it was like one out of eight of us that actually felt they had a really good relationship with our dad and were well, there was nothing that was really like felt on set or unspoken or whatever. I have such a relationship with my dad.

01;01;51;08 - 01;02;34;03
Speaker 1
I'm very grateful. But I think the vast majority of men feels that there's there was something that could have been significantly better. And and so so there's there's a big there there is a role there to work with for many men. And I think that's that's also why it shows exactly the title of of of that particular step honor your father but become your own man because no matter how fucked up your dad was, no matter how much or how little he was there or this or that, or how many mistakes you did or whatever, you must, something that you can honor him for.

01;02;34;03 - 01;02;58;16
Speaker 1
And this is important because he is, after all, your, your what you come from, from the masculine lineage, right. You have to find something that you can appreciate about him. And if nothing else, you can appreciate the fact that he gave you life. Mm hmm. And this. And this might be a tough one to hear if you if you had a lousy dad or a dad who wasn't there at all, who ran away or whatever.

01;02;58;16 - 01;03;23;16
Speaker 1
But. But I think is important to to to take responsibility for for how how you deal with your daddy issues and your relationship. Your father, even though he's dead or he wasn't there or you never met him or whatever, like, like at least find a place where you can forgive me for his flaws or him for for for the for the good things he, after all, gave you, even if it was only life.

01;03;24;01 - 01;03;42;12
Speaker 1
And based on that, knowing who he was and what his shortcomings was and what his qualities was. From there, you can choose what kind of man you want to become. Yeah, but. But. But you have to also find something to honor him for your mom. I really firmly believe.

01;03;43;03 - 01;04;02;25
Speaker 2
And I feel this is so important. And I like the way you speak of it. One of the one when we're still running a Reclaim the Throne initiations and the old way. Right now, they're not on the market. They will probably return in a new form. But one of the one of the weeks we were working on the male lineage.

01;04;03;19 - 01;04;05;20
Speaker 1
And I.

01;04;06;18 - 01;04;44;20
Speaker 2
Became quite passionate about this idea that there is a nobility in your male lineage and our male lineage that may not have found its fruition, and that the kind of pain that we received at the hands of our fathers and that they received at the hands of their fathers is actually in a way directly correlated to how much the male lineage has embodied.

01;04;44;20 - 01;04;52;11
Speaker 2
The nobility, like the that there is something that runs through our lineage roots.

01;04;52;25 - 01;04;57;18
Speaker 1
Like it you might call it too. Or so the same heroic.

01;04;58;19 - 01;05;24;26
Speaker 2
Could be a part of it, but that there's something that has wanted to come through into the world, through our through our lineage and that our fathers in their depression and suffering from being disconnected from that themselves ended up hurting us. And that our opportunity now to fully give expression to that wish our fathers could not be.

01;05;24;26 - 01;05;25;24
Speaker 1
Our own go to.

01;05;26;07 - 01;05;32;09
Speaker 2
Yeah to you had to the to the expression that runs through our male lineage. It was always something.

01;05;32;10 - 01;05;32;26
Speaker 1
Important.

01;05;33;19 - 01;05;44;00
Speaker 2
That I really loved speaking to because it kind of reframes what happens. The pain comes from the disconnection that we have to what is actually meant to come through us.

01;05;45;27 - 01;06;12;04
Speaker 1
You know, that's a beautiful and a very spiritual, I guess, way of seeing it. Yeah, but I like it. It's nice. Yeah. I mean, it's a we all, we all recognize it, right? When, when we meet someone, let's say a man. But it could also be a woman, of course. But we all, we all recognize it when we meet a man who is like, worth following or worth being inspired by.

01;06;12;04 - 01;06;38;12
Speaker 1
At least radiate like someone who was like, you know, maybe incarnating their own nobility or like, like living up to a certain standard of being human. Yeah. This is ultimately what it is, but it moves something in us, right? When, when, when, when we meet such a person and into us and obviously around such a person, we don't feel resentment or anger or whatever like it.

01;06;38;14 - 01;06;53;21
Speaker 1
On the contrary, it kindles our fire. So so I think that makes sense that the more our fathers or male role models have have expressed that and the less pain there will be. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's good.

01;06;53;28 - 01;06;59;09
Speaker 2
Yeah, Yeah. So we we have.

01;06;59;25 - 01;07;00;03
Speaker 1
To.

01;07;00;13 - 01;07;29;29
Speaker 2
Really delve deep with the mother and the father and I was wanting to spend some time with you today on what kind of challenges you're experiencing and what kind of breakthroughs, you know, what really works for the men that you work with. I don't think we have time for that right now. So maybe that's for a future conversation, because I do really want I mean, this is the way yours podcasts after all, and maybe we can weave it into that inquiry.

01;07;30;14 - 01;07;59;09
Speaker 2
But what do you think as men living in this this world and this culture that is going through a lot of chaos and and struggle and trauma right now? What do we need as men, as as a group, as a sex, but also as individual men? What do you see us needing? Where do we need to go to thrive in the future?

01;07;59;09 - 01;08;02;12
Speaker 2
What is your vision for masculinity? Moving forwards?

01;08;03;27 - 01;08;31;21
Speaker 1
Well, I really think it really is to to become masters of ourselves. I think we have spent centuries and millennia, I guess, to, like, slay all the other dragons and, like, conquer the whole world. And with our technology, we are at ever increasing rates, conquering the rest of space. Right? That that's already happening full on. But I think more than anything, we need to conquer our inner dragons.

01;08;32;03 - 01;09;00;02
Speaker 1
We need to become good friends with our sexuality. We need to become good friends with our aggression and turn that into something useful. We need to we need to become fucking soulful human beings again instead of just materialistic consumption. Animals like people that are really alive and in with our inner fire again, you know, And there are so many pitfalls and things that bring us away from that.

01;09;00;02 - 01;09;33;14
Speaker 1
Just talking about pornography, right, And social media and mass entertainment and this and there's so many distractions. Like distractions are like a billion times what they ever were before. Yeah, like, like pollution of our minds. So what? In my humble opinion, what we really need is to is to to really bring focus back to ourselves, back to our own bodies better our own sex spectra, our own minds, and learn to master that because, you know, the world can go haywire around us.

01;09;33;14 - 01;09;55;16
Speaker 1
And it has before and it will again. And there will also come more and more peaceful times again and more stable times. These things will always change. You know, that's history. You know, I studied history. It all along. But but, you know, you can't really change much there unless you are like the president of the United States. And even then, there is a lot of forces affecting you.

01;09;55;16 - 01;10;29;02
Speaker 1
Right. But what you can work on is yourself. You can work on mastering yourself with the 12 steps, with mastering your sexual energy, with a bunch of other tools that are out there and are available. You can become a master of your own house. And from there you can create, you can connect with like minded people, men, women and formed stable and strong communities and such communities of of of self mastered who cook and think critically are just more hard to throw around.

01;10;29;12 - 01;10;39;05
Speaker 1
But by the by the would be authoritarian powers. I really think the best we can do is on ourselves.

01;10;39;25 - 01;10;54;19
Speaker 2
And do you find that the men you work with, with their sexuality and whatever else you're supporting them with are inspired by this vision, or are they just focused on resolving their their personal issues?

01;10;55;10 - 01;11;29;27
Speaker 1
Well, it can be both, right? I mean, I think yes, some some feel they feel a motivation towards something greater, a more spiritual vision, you might say. Yeah, motivation for manhood. But sure, many also come with their concrete problems. But but but the great the great thing and you know this this is a little bit my hack I think the great thing about working with men and sexuality and about working with it in this particular way that I do where is not I don't give them a pill, you know, I don't give them a lotion to to a number sensitivity in their cocks or whatever.

01;11;29;27 - 01;11;54;08
Speaker 1
Right. No, I teach them to master again their sexual energy in their own minds and their own bodies. And that and that solves the problem. Like virtually whatever problem they're coming with, it could take longer for some, shorter for others. But it works. But what it also does in the process is that it brings them more in touch with themselves and their body and their sex and their heart.

01;11;54;14 - 01;12;20;14
Speaker 1
It's inevitable. It's a part of the of the process. So so many of many of them over time. Yeah, they solved that issue. But they also discover a whole new realm inside. I don't like this word with mastering your sexual energy is the best and fastest way to kickstart a personal growth journey for men, because so much of our energy simply goes out with our ejaculation.

01;12;20;14 - 01;12;49;17
Speaker 1
Right? And so there's a lot of seeds in the rest of our garden here that simply don't get watered. And then we don't know. But when you start moving the energy this way, instead you feel it more and you can start feel talents and aspects of yourself that that you never knew was there before. So I think even though people come sometimes with a very concrete problem they want to solve and yes, it works on that, they actually get a whole extra bonus that they didn't expect.

01;12;50;00 - 01;12;53;29
Speaker 1
So if they didn't have that great ambition, many awakened to it.

01;12;55;05 - 01;13;07;17
Speaker 2
I guess really, at the end of the day, mastering your sexual or vital force, it is life. And in order to hold more life in your system.

01;13;08;02 - 01;13;08;19
Speaker 1
As you need.

01;13;08;29 - 01;13;17;08
Speaker 2
You need to remove a lot of the blocks that prevent you from holding life and then things will surface naturally.

01;13;17;24 - 01;13;18;02
Speaker 1
Yeah.

01;13;18;12 - 01;13;21;18
Speaker 2
So that I think is the gift of the bedroom.

01;13;22;02 - 01;13;44;10
Speaker 1
Yeah. So it's also I mean, that's true if you really go into it, right, you also all of whatever lies in the way for you to fully own your life force will come painstakingly into focus. But you will you will face your demons, you will face your pain. You face your limitations. And that's fine, because then you can see them and then you can work with them.

01;13;46;15 - 01;13;54;18
Speaker 2
Maybe it may be maybe it should be a requirement on the curriculum of becoming prime minister or president to learn how to master your sexual intimacy.

01;13;55;05 - 01;13;56;11
Speaker 1
Will will be a great idea.

01;13;57;19 - 01;14;06;24
Speaker 2
Hey, we're coming towards the end of this conversation. I do know that you have written a book. Is it available in English or is it currently only in Danish?

01;14;07;09 - 01;14;15;04
Speaker 1
Not yet. It's in Danish, but everybody will come in English. I'm looking for an English publisher, so if someone out there I want to publish it in English, let know.

01;14;15;24 - 01;14;21;25
Speaker 2
And this book is just the manifestation of all of your teachings around sexuality over the years, I take it. All right.

01;14;22;06 - 01;14;42;28
Speaker 1
Yeah. It's a presentation of the methods with a lot of examples from from my clients and myself from over the years. Right. And how you deal with with this or that obstacle. There also an online course in English that I want is in English on my on my English website, but Unicom where I instruct the whole practice with videos and take you by the hand through through the different steps of it.

01;14;43;15 - 01;14;50;26
Speaker 1
And so that's there and now available in English. It has been for years. The book will come, hopefully so.

01;14;51;24 - 01;15;08;07
Speaker 2
Great. And having finished book, do you feel different in any way? Do you feel like something landed dropped in you or like many, many, many authors speak of their first book as some kind of coming out or embodiment experience or.

01;15;10;19 - 01;15;37;09
Speaker 1
I do it's it's it's subtle and and yet profound. I think I think it actually only landed in me when I was away for the winter and I had a little time to, like, get a little bit at a distance and mulled over but but I think it you know, I worked towards creating that book for ten years and, and now it's done.

01;15;38;02 - 01;16;03;17
Speaker 1
And it's almost like now I on my winter trip, I really felt like, oh my God, like if I'm no longer the guy who is writing that book. And on the way with that book, who am I, then, you know, it was a little bit of a vacuum after that. And but this is speaking into step number eight, accept death as a fact of life and as a path of evolution.

01;16;05;02 - 01;16;18;09
Speaker 1
This is this is I think there are moments in life where, where, where you need to let go of something and you need to, like, fall into that space of emptiness when when an old part of, you know, part of your identity is complete.

01;16;19;21 - 01;16;28;10
Speaker 2
When a big project is complete and the mind tends to like, celebrate it for like 3 seconds and then move on to the next one.

01;16;29;03 - 01;16;34;26
Speaker 1
Exactly. And if any of you do that, then you actually don't get the full wave after what's right with.

01;16;34;26 - 01;16;47;06
Speaker 2
Exactly. Yeah, I guess this is also in part connected to this idea of embodying your feminine side. So to to be to receive the fullness of the experience of a completion and.

01;16;48;02 - 01;16;54;18
Speaker 1
Truth and to receive an impulse for, for, for whatever new is is wants to happen through you.

01;16;55;04 - 01;17;03;15
Speaker 2
SEIFER Yeah, I have more questions for you. If I ask everyone these questions. What do you love about being a man?

01;17;08;01 - 01;17;37;19
Speaker 1
That's a good question. I love my male body and I love. I mean, this maybe goes without saying with the work that I do, but I. But I love to have sex with a woman that I love and feel my my masculine force holding and penetrating her and an opening her up and connecting even deeper with her through that.

01;17;37;22 - 01;17;44;21
Speaker 1
I feel that's what I'm really in, that I feel I give such a gift to her and she gives me such a gift back.

01;17;45;28 - 01;17;48;00
Speaker 2
Beautiful. And then.

01;17;49;06 - 01;17;49;20
Speaker 1
If.

01;17;50;00 - 01;18;05;06
Speaker 2
You could give one piece of advice or one practice to all of the men listening that they would, you would have a 100% implementation rate from all of these men. What would what would that be.

01;18;06;11 - 01;18;07;03
Speaker 1
One practice.

01;18;07;17 - 01;18;15;17
Speaker 2
In order to support them in improving their lives? It could be just a mindset or a perspective shift as well. It doesn't need to be a practice.

01;18;16;02 - 01;18;52;25
Speaker 1
No, no. Well, in line with what we've been talking a lot about here, I would say, and this is an aspect of of the vital for sexual mastery process that I teach. I would say take three weeks or you don't watch porn. And where you don't ejaculate, but where you are frequently making love with yourself, not just with your cock, but with your whole give yourself the same care and attention that you would give a wonderful lover of yours during a full long foreplay.

01;18;53;07 - 01;19;16;19
Speaker 1
Do that with be sexual with yourself, play with your cock, but not in that like fast way of like building up to a quick climax. Just enjoy it and enjoy the ride. Enjoy all the sensations without rushing for anything and and finish after an hour with a big warm smile holding your cock in your heart and breathing that energy all the way through your system.

01;19;16;20 - 01;19;19;19
Speaker 2
So how many times per week should they do this?

01;19;20;03 - 01;19;39;00
Speaker 1
Well, if you can do it every day is awesome. But if you can do it three times a week. It's also great. Super. Let's see how that will like blow your mind in terms of how how you feel yourself in a different way, how you feel your pleasure in a different way, and yeah, and how much energy it gives you.

01;19;39;24 - 01;19;42;11
Speaker 1
And then if you lose in the process, you know where to find me.

01;19;43;01 - 01;20;02;12
Speaker 2
Yeah. Good. Great. Well, thank you, Jacob. Let's. Let's meet these men who have been watching and listening today, whether on YouTube or Spotify or Apple Podcasts, wherever. Let's give them an idea of where they can find out more about you.

01;20;03;09 - 01;20;26;02
Speaker 1
Sure. And your own You can on the virtual unit dot com. That's my English website. It's my Danish one is a virtual unit. Okay. And I need to graphically mine the English one doesn't look amazing right now. I've been focusing mainly on the on the Danish market for for for the past years. But I'm in the process of moving a lot more into English.

01;20;26;15 - 01;20;37;26
Speaker 1
But but you will find the the English online course there with videos and everything and and lots more stuff is going to come on that one new soon too. You can also follow me on Facebook and Instagram with my name.

01;20;38;07 - 01;20;50;08
Speaker 2
And if there are a page somewhere on the English Amazon where like your your translation is already already exists as a placeholder or is that good?

01;20;50;08 - 01;21;03;15
Speaker 1
No, no. Because I'm still thinking to, to, to try and find an actual publisher. And I but it is too long and too complicated. I will simply have made a good translation and yes, put it on Amazon. Yeah. Yeah. Great.

01;21;04;26 - 01;21;09;04
Speaker 2
Well, thank you. This was fun. I enjoyed this very much.

01;21;09;11 - 01;21;10;28
Speaker 1
Pleasure. And always nice to talk to you.

01;21;11;14 - 01;21;39;24
Speaker 2
Yeah. So, yeah, thank you for coming and to all of you who have been watching or listening, don't hesitate to explore more of Jacob's important work. I know he's really killing it with the guys he's supporting in Denmark. He's really making a difference. And if this kind of sexual empowerment work, I don't know what you call it exactly, Jacob, but let's let's roll with that.

01;21;39;24 - 01;21;56;12
Speaker 2
If that's something that that calls you, Jacob could very well be your guide. So it was a pleasure to have you here today, you, Jacob, and you listening and watching. And I hope you will join us again in the next episode of the Way Stories Podcast. Bye bye.