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Being STRONG is more than just how much weight you can lift.
The Strong New York Podcast is dedicated to inspiring you to become your strongest self- in the gym, in business, in relationships and in life.
Join Kenny as he sits down with his strong as fuck buddies and shoots the shit on what it takes to be strong willed, strong minded and physically strong. Season one features everyone from entrepreneurs and local business owners to doctors and industry leaders in the fitness and wellness space.
With over a decade of experience, Kenny Santucci has made himself known as one of New York City’s top trainers and a thought leader in the health and wellness industry. After transforming his life at 15 years old through fitness, Kenny made it his mission to transform the lives of those around him.
Kenny has trained some of Hollywood’s biggest stars, including Jon Bon Jovi, Liev Schreiber, and Frank Ocean, and has been tapped as a fitness expert sharing his training approach with Men’s Health, Men’s Journal, Runner's World, SHAPE, Well+Good, among other publications.
Kenny is the creator of STRONG New York, NYC's only Health and Fitness Expo. Strong New York is an immersive day of workouts, wellness experiences, panel discussions, and inspiring conversations with the best in-class wellness professionals, industry leaders, and change makers who are sharing their expertise on today's hottest wellness trends and first-hand experiences on how to optimize your overall health and life.
You can find Kenny at The Strength Club, his private training and group strength training facility in the heart of Manhattan located on 28th and 5th Ave in New York City.
Welcome to the strongest podcast. I'm your host, Kenny Santucci and join us for some strong conversations.
All right, fully equipped my with my brand new, uh, half sumo jacket. I love this thing. Very retro Uh, i'm really leaning into my whole old man phase. I got these sweet shades So when I get old I can wear sunglasses inside and it won't be weird. Um, And I got my fanny pack on I got my new, uh, Stumble and company fanny pack.
I love this thing. Um, but I have a very special guest today Uh, like always because all my guests are special because everyone is special and they need to just figure out what their specialty is And this gentleman unlike me um, or Unlike what I normally do, I slide into people's DMS and I try to get them on the show or I have them speak at strong New York.
This gentleman actually slid into my DMS and I'm looking through his page and just like, um, you know, one of these, uh, I guess you would call them daddies online who, uh, check out young girls and stuff. And they're like, Hey, I'll give you a bunch of cash if you, uh, hang out with me. Well, that's what I did.
Okay. Danny slid into my DMS and I was like, yeah, sure. I'll take you for a ride. So, uh, without further ado, uh, dr. Danny Shapiro, very handsome young guy here and jacked. Thanks very much. So what's this? I hear you're a dancer.
Yes. So I used to be a professional ballroom dancer for 16 years.
Can I ask how you get into that?
So, I mean, I come from a culturally Russian background. Okay. As that's a very Russian thing to do. Okay. Yeah. Very Eastern European thing to do, to just start dancing. So I started at four.
If everybody's doing in the country, you got a thousand, tens of thousands, millions of people dancing. How'd you get so good
god given talent?
Really? No,
well, I mean just hard work. Yeah, I was gonna say you probably busted your ass at it.
Yeah did you
get your balls broke as a kid being like Danny's not gonna come hang out with us. He's going to ballroom day.
I did I did I got bullied actually pretty damn heavily in school and
that's why you got so jacked.
Yeah, this is just protective You know to make myself feel better so nobody can harm me now,
dude I had this I had the same problem. I used to get my balls broke. I was fat awkward. I had square glasses Um Picked on all the time and I was like, you know what? I gotta figure out how to combat this. So
that's now
so yeah, look right I mean you're a lot bigger than I am.
I wish I could put on some size like that. Um, So give me a little background like you grew up In russia.
No. No, so I grew up here. I was a Citizen I grew up in long island So I grew up in Long Island. Uh, Russian was actually my first language though.
Okay.
So I went to school into the English learning program to learn English.
And where, where'd you, uh, where in Long Island did you grow up?
So in Nassau County, North Woodmere Valley Stream area. Okay. So that's where I grew up.
Yeah. Nice area. Yeah. Pretty like, blue collar. Right.
Yeah. I mean, it's, it's very quiet, very chill, very nice. Okay. Um, and then my parents, they worked in Brooklyn.
So from the very beginning,
of course, would they have worked
right in Brighton beach in Coney Island?
Yeah.
Um, and so I was in Brooklyn every day for that and for dancing. And what were your parents doing? So my father's a podiatrist.
Okay.
So
you have, I mean, that's what got you into the medical field as well.
Even though he was trying to keep me out of it. I was drawn to it. Yeah.
It's funny because you're a little younger than me. And when I was a kid, you know, the narrative from everybody's parents that I grew up with, it was always like, you got to become a doctor or a lawyer. Like that was like the gold standard.
Like everybody should become a doctor or a lawyer. Obviously I never did that. Well, and you know, fourth grade math. So I don't know if I would ever made it, but, um, You went against what your parents were trying to tell you to do, and you, you did it anyway.
Yeah, I mean, my father said medicine is very, is a very messy business, and, um, Why do you think he said that?
Well, because the healthcare system is broken. Yeah. Like, terribly, miserably broken.
Well, I mean, we could run down the list of shit that's broken. The legal system's broken. Yeah. The medical system's broken. Health
insurance system's broken. The health
insurance is, Yeah. I think we, I think, yeah, there definitely needs to, when people talk about, You know, Um, a zombie apocalypse or all this shit coming to an end.
I'm like, I think it might be time that we clean the slate and fucking start all over again. The ashes. Yeah. Yeah. I think, I think we're in dire straits. It's bad. This happening. So go ahead. So you get into the medical field. So
yeah, so I get into the medical field. Um, I actually went to school in Amsterdam, uh, which was.
A phenomenal experience. A family friend of mine went to a program there and highly recommended it over any US based program, which was awesome. I got a lot of very great experiences from there. A lot more the food over there. So much better. Oh my God. Really? I mean, Dutch food is kind of bland.
Yeah.
But if you make your own food again, all the vegetables, the fruits, like the actual smell it.
Yes. Yes. The smell, the quality of the food is great. But if you go out to eat in a Dutch restaurant, like, In the Netherlands or anywhere around there. I mean, the foods like bitter balls, it's got to be the most disgusting shit I've ever
eaten. You got to go to the, to the steak houses.
Yeah. Then I'm sure the steak houses
are
great.
Yeah. Um, but like you go to any other pub, I was out there, I filmed a commercial years ago. Out there with these Dutch guys. They were great. I loved hanging out with them. Literally. We spent two weeks filming this commercial and then another two weeks in France filming another commercial because they booked us for two, uh, two commercials.
But anyway, when we were out there, these guys love to drink.
Oh, yeah. Yeah. You're
in the morning. Oh, before we start, let's go grab a beer. Okay. And that was every day. After everything we did, it's like, let's go grab a beer. And I'm like, grab some food every once in a while. And when we did grab food, it was like fucking bitter balls and shit.
Let me tell you a quick story. Shoot. So while I was a student over there, I worked with a rugby team. So I, I entered this organization that gives students extra learning opportunities outside of your normal PT rotations. And I picked rugby as a team, as a sport that I really wanted to observe and, Partake in and treat people with uh, and so one of the games rugby is a very violent sport, right?
It's football minus the protection. Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah, and I'm surprised there's not more injuries like when you hear bad. Yeah, right They're real bad. Yeah,
they're real bad So whatever
we say go you can't put your head down, but i'm like you don't need to you're running into somebody with no pads on
Yeah, you have maybe a leather cap and you know, just like a jock strap and that's it.
But
most of the guys don't wear the leather strap. No, no,
that's if they already have like a, the, the cauliflower ear already. Uh, so one of these games, right after every game, there's usually always rounds and rounds of beers, right? So this one guy, he, he, I see him go down. He comes up to me and he says, Hey, what do you think of my hand?
And his thumb is Out. It's out. It's it's shattered. It's it's messed. It's done.
Yeah.
So first of all, he says just tape me up. I cannot be subbed out. I need to finish the game. So I told him all the precautions. I'm like, Hey, you're doing this on your own choice. He goes, Yes, I don't care. Tape me up. So I tape his hand that does not move and I tell him to stay back.
He runs through it anyway, scores the next to the two points, right? Really? And then again, the thing is shattered. After the game. The bone
is actually broken. It's,
it's, yeah. He showed me the x ray later. I was like, this is exactly what I thought it was going to look like. Yeah.
Yeah.
And sure enough. It must have swelled up pretty quick.
Oh, it's super quick. I duct taped the thing and it still swelled up. So it got really swollen. No shit. I told him, look, the second the game is over, don't even change to the hospital.
Yeah. He
goes, yeah, yeah, yeah. No problem. 10 minutes later, game's done. Drinking beer, smoking a cigarette. That's it. The beer is a non
negotiable.
I have a question for you because I'm sure there's a lot of people out there like I'm and we're going to get into this later, but when you break a bone or tear a muscle, can you, you could see it right away. I mean, within five, 10 minutes.
Typically. Yeah.
Right.
Yeah.
And now when you get to the hospital, what are they actually doing?
Because most of the time when you get there, they're like putting an anesthesia or whatever, depending on how bad the break is. What are they actually doing? Because the blood flows out. I mean, I've broken this hand. I broke this finger. Um, you know, I, I banged myself up pretty good. Um, what are they actually doing to get some of the swelling down?
Well, swelling is going to be, it's going to take its natural course, right? So you can't really, you can control, you can take anti inflammatories, which is not super recommended.
Yeah.
Um, because usually inflammation brings the healing. That's why that's a normal body response. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, need blood flow.
Yeah. You need blood flow. Um, and then it honestly just comes down to what kind of break is it? Right. If it's a non displaced break, then it's, you just, you can splint it. You can brace it, but you leave it alone.
Yeah.
Let it heal for the displaced fracture. Then, I mean, now we're talking a little bit quick story
about me being just as stupid as that guy, um, high school football, sophomore year to catch a pass like this.
I caught the ball like this and I thought I just jammed my finger So I kept biting everybody's like just pull it back into place. So i'm like, all right, i'm on the sideline Just pulling it back into place. What I did was after I broke the bone I separated it nice So now they had to cut my hand open And pin it back together.
Yeah, but for like and I was like, oh my hand's fine I waited for like three four days before my entire like from my wrist to my hand was completely swollen god And my mother's like you gotta go to the hospital So we go and they had to knock me out and pin it all together. But like, what are they actually doing in there?
Right. Just to get that. Cause if it's separated, obviously they have to clean it out, pin it back together. But like, how do you get around all the, the mess?
I mean, I don't know how they do it either. Again, that's, that's, uh, that's
beyond
your scope. That's beyond my scope. I don't go cutting in and pasting things back together.
Um, I'm sure. Did you have therapy after? Uh, no, actually, what? No, no therapy after the procedure. Nothing.
No, I didn't really do anything with it.
Do you have full function?
Yeah, that's,
that's phenomenal.
What's weird though is I broke this finger. So I was wrestling and I had my hand down and somebody stepped on my hand and the bone that holds your finger straight like popped out of this one.
And I was like, how can I get it back? I was like, cause my hand looks gross like that. And they're like, there's nothing you can do about it. So you gotta leave it. But, um, yeah, when I broke this hand, that was, uh, they just put the You know the brace on it. They didn't do anything. They didn't have to cut her open and stuff But I definitely split the bone in here.
Yeah breaks are always they can be very messy. Yeah
So your specialty is pain management
My specialty is eradicating chronic pain. Okay, that's what I do
So i'm and this is this is going to be the the base of everything we talk about it There are so many people out there that, well, some people know that I've had back pain, but I think there's so many people out there who suffer from some level of back pain.
And when I was going through it, it was, uh, when I was looking at some of the research and I don't know how young research is all over the place, right? Everybody's like, Oh, look at the research. I'm like, well, I could find you a fucking study on a hundred different things, the same topic and give you a hundred different results on the same thing.
So, Uh, but what I was looking at was over 30 years old. I think it's like 70 percent of adults suffer from some level of back pain.
Yeah. It's about two and three, two and three people.
Yeah.
I think it's two and three people. The statistic will have a back pain at some point in their life. The way we're going as a society, as what we're doing with our lifestyle, it's going to be three out of three.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Which is
crazy. It's nuts. And to give you another number, yeah. 21 percent as of last year, according to the National Institute of Health, 21 percent of Americans across the board, 21 percent have chronic pain.
Wow. That's millions of people. Chronic pain. So that's like every day you're getting up and you have some level of pain in your back.
That's discounting kids. We're taking like, you know, kids, teenagers, we're taking the, cause they, they got pain too. Yeah. Yeah. Right. But yeah, no, 21%.
And adults is like over the age of 30. Yeah.
I, I think probably over the age of probably 21, 20, whatever the age parameter is, right? 21%.
So, rewind a little bit.
You go to medical school over in the Netherlands. Yep,
PT school, yep.
You come back. And then take us through that.
So I come back. You live in Long Island. I already moved to Brooklyn. Okay. And so I come back from the Netherlands. I sit down for my boards. And I essentially, right from the get go, open up my own shop.
Okay. Which is a ballsy move. Yes. So a lot of what we talk about on the show is, you know, business and how much of a pain in the ass it could be. Yeah. And you went to school for medicine. You didn't go to school to be a business person.
No.
So, No. It was probably a bit of a pain in the ass, or did your old man help you through that?
So, uh, actually, um, my brother and I, we, we work together. Okay. Um, and he, he is definitely more the business, Uh, so is he a doc that put me
on, is he a doctor as well, or
No, he, you know, you mentioned earlier, uh, your parents pressured you to become either, uh, you know, doctor or lawyer, right? Yeah. So I'm the doctor.
He's the lawyer. . So, okay. That's a,
that's a good guy to have in your ca in
your, there you go. Uh, in your cabinet. There, there you go. Sure. He does my marketing, my advertising, but he, he was really in the beginning. Now, like I, I love the business world. I love the whole idea behind it. And I love diving deeper into understanding the person who's in front of you seeking your help and your service or whatever it is.
Yeah. It's definitely a tough game. Very, very much so. It's very competitive. I don't care what field you're in nowadays. You have to be really good at a lot of shit. Yes. And I tell people that like, when younger guys come to me, younger girls come to me and they're like, I want to open up a gym. Yeah. And I want to be a business owner.
I go understand that whether you own a bank. A flower shop, a gym. It doesn't matter. You're now a business owner. So now you need lawyers, you need contractors, you need a lot of people and a lot of things to go right for this to go well.
You need to have like just about everything to
be right. You need to be a social media person.
You need to do a lot more than what you think you're going to do because a lot of people are like, I love training. I love being in the gym. I'm like, yeah, do you like being a business owner? Cause that could be a fucking absolute pain in the ass. Yeah. Which I'm sure you found out pretty quickly.
Yeah.
There's a, there's a big difference between being an employee versus employer, right? There's a lot of things I have to consider. And to make matters even more interesting, I opened up the clinic two months before COVID hit.
Holy shit. Good timing. It was great. So how'd that go? Probably you're an essential worker.
So
I am. Um, however, I'm also, so I'm a, I'm a, I run a specialty clinic, which means that I don't, and
where's your clinic
just literally four blocks down 35th street between seventh and eighth Ave.
Okay.
Um,
I wish you would have reached out to me sooner when I actually had some back pain. I could have had you work on me and stuff.
Would it make a quick work of it to where we are? I know so good. So yeah, so I run a specialty clinic I don't work with any insurance plans, which gives me the absolute freedom to do the magic that I do every single day
Yeah,
and so, you know kicking off kovat everything shut down people jobs shut like nobody knew what to do
I still feel like it's fucked up from that.
You know, we're still recovering.
Yeah, of course. I we were just talking about how In our business, there used to be people who'd come in six, five, six, seven, eight AM. Religiously, you could put, you know, you could, uh, set your watch to these people. Um, even the same thing at night nowadays, nobody has a regular schedule.
Everybody works from home. So it's like sporadic and it's good for guys like us because then we could see people in the middle of the day and stuff. But at the same time, you, you don't know what you're getting anymore, right? Like.
It's all up in the air, right? Everyone, like you said, everyone's schedules is, is all over the place,
especially here in New York.
Exactly. Yeah. Oh, especially here in New York. Yeah. But what COVID did was especially for, for my business, uh, because this is not something I considered before COVID even happened, which is virtual therapy. Right. So with the onset of COVID, I closed my doors down cause nobody knew what was going on. So I closed it down for about close to two months.
Physical location. I just opened the office, closed it.
So what were you doing? So what did that look like for you? Day two,
like day one, we closed the office. Day two. Yeah. Like, what are you doing? Panic. Like what the hell we do pants,
right? Yeah, because no one was sure like, all right, what are the what does rent look like now?
Do you yeah, but yeah, of course Yeah, not
some
not not to mention the investment that you probably made into putting the place together
everything
That's what a lot of people don't realize they're like, I'm gonna build this beautiful space But it's like alright that money has to come from somewhere and that money eventually has to get back paid back to someone
Yep, it all comes full circle.
Yeah
Right. And in a place like New York where rent for everything, whether it's for business or for yourself, right? Cause don't forget you need to live too, right? Like you need to live. Just renting
this room costs a
couple hundred dollars. This episode better be really good. Yeah, I
hope so. I hope everybody's paying
attention.
But yeah, so it just, it just forced us to adapt. And so we started to adapt. Into virtual care, which proved to be incredible because now I have patients that are in upstate New York I'm registered in Florida. I have patients in Orlando, Tampa, Miami, Fort Lauderdale And people who are receiving fantastic results over zoom Over any professional that they've seen in their town in their city, whatever.
So why keep your shop open? Because I I like the physical space Yeah, again, there are a lot of practitioners a lot of providers who do purely virtual and I think that's awesome
Yeah
Nothing against that whatsoever. I love my physical space There are people who prefer to come like physically in person who won't touch virtual no matter how much you tell them I promise you it's the same result.
Yeah,
i'm i'm the same way. Yeah, I like I like being in front of people I get excited about like being with my clients and in a space face to face To do stuff online like I had I was working with a company back in 2020 The 2021, whenever that was, um, and we were doing online stuff and I fucking hate it.
It's like you're married to the computer. There's actually, uh, a trigger in the brain that lets you know that like this person isn't actually in front of you. Like you're, you're missing that chemical, uh, response from the other person. You know, I forget what it's called. I forget where I read it, but it is true that like, there's, there's definitely, Uh, a trigger in the brain that lets you know like that person isn't physically there, right?
There's no like Connection really there, you know, so and that's why I I mean i'll train people all day long five in the morning till eight o'clock at night sometimes and I'm fine, and I hit when I get home I crash.
Yeah,
but yeah When I'm on the computer, it's like seven minutes in. I'm like,
that's, and that's exactly, that's the hardest
thing to deal with.
It's incredibly hard, especially when it's back to back. It wasn't the beginning of COVID. Back to back, six, seven, eight hours straight. Zoom, zoom sessions one after the other and that was really tough.
Yeah, and you're passing the hell out. Do you space them out? How do you do it?
So typically, um, I mean like right now or back then?
No. So now I have a pretty simple schedule. It's ten to seven. So, uh, and then there's like a lunch hour in between. I recently decreased my hours and I have more administrative time. More content creation time and all that stuff. Like that's how I'm here. Yeah.
No. Well, I mean you're crushing it on the content side of things Thank you.
Yeah.
So what do you attribute that to? Like, well, what were you doing? What do you think you were doing different that other people weren't?
Honestly, I think it's a couple of things. One is I really try to be authentic. I'm not trying to hide Things like I'm not trying to hide who I really am I try to really like how I am in real life is how I try to portray myself online Yeah, and I try to I don't hold any secret sauce back.
You know, I mean like I don't I try to give people what works
Yeah,
and the hook with the dancing right like you, you know, you go on my page. There's a lot of dancing there
Yeah, yeah,
I
think that's what people are into.
Yeah. Well, it's very uplifting. It's very positive.
I think people love dancing I'm following this one guy Um What's that dude's name, Chris?
I have coffee with him next week. I was trying to get him to do a dance class at my event and he's this. Very flamboyant over the top, but he plays a lot of like Classic 80s like pop music in all his videos and he has this group of people dance with him and you can't Help but smile and want to be involved.
I don't even like dancing I think like I've never danced at a fucking wedding. Like I'm one of those people. It's like I'm always a guy But I enjoy watching people who are really into it at a wedding. It looks like shit because most people are drunk. They don't know what they're doing. It's some fucking old white guy trying to dance the fucking biggie and it's annoying to watch.
Um, this guy's really good. It keeps it super clean and simple, but I think what you do is pretty impressive.
Thank you.
I mean, you are world.
I was a US champion, US champion. I was 11th in the world, sixth in the world when I was dancing sixth in the world. That's pretty
imp That's pretty impressive. It's good time.
I have a client of mine, my, my buddy Jonathan who, uh, he's a ballroom dancer and I've actually gone to see a ballroom dancing contest before. Um, yeah, it's
electric, isn't it?
It's actually some of it's pretty cool. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, I think like. I've never been a fan of dancing with the stars, but it's a massive show
But that shows only just a fraction of the like the true energy if you ever go to a ballroom competition a big
one
And you go towards where are most of
them?
They're scattered. So there's uh, usually like around independence day. There's a very big one in manhattan Okay, um, like the nationals are usually at least when I was dancing. We're in utah. We're in california um, the world championships are all over the world, but um, the energy is You can taste it, you can smell it, you can taste it, you can
feel the sparks in the room, it's crazy.
It's live music, you know, it's Yeah. It's going to a restaurant like there. I encourage people to get out and do things more You know not spend money like an idiot, but like spend money go and experience different things It just enriches your life. It makes you feel better Yeah, I think dancing is one of those things where it's like I don't do it, but I see the beauty in it Right.
Um, do you think your size slows you down a little bit now?
I mean, if I was to go back into professional dancing, yes,
you'd have to trim down a little bit.
I'd have to. Yeah. I mean, I was like half of me when I was dancing and even then I was still considered a big boy. Really? I was nicknamed the tank.
Were you a thick kid as a kid? When you were younger?
Yeah. My, my brother, uh, my sister, like my entire family, they dance, but they're everyone's, uh, I'm the biggest one.
Yeah.
Uh, and so I've always wanted to do weightlifting, but I was never allowed to, I was never even allowed to do a single pushup.
Okay.
Uh, cause the moment that start, I pump up.
So when did you start to really move weight around?
So when I was 20, that's when I went to Amsterdam. So that's when I had to stop my dancing career and I moved there. And, um, I put on about 60 pounds. How are the gyms over there? Phenomenal. Really? Phenomenal.
But good stuff.
I didn't go until I hit my very rock bottom like I put on 60 pounds of pure pure Fat pure fat pure weight.
No shit,
and I was walking by in my dorm I was walking by my I just like big mirror and it's like the cliche moment you walk by like what the fuck is that?
Yeah,
and I I got to work. I was like, I used to be professional athlete
Do you know the day and when that was? So I almost like I try to cut it out.
Oh, see, I remember the exact day looking in the mirror and just being like You're a slob And this is your fault and you need to change it and I remember saying to myself. That's why I love a lot of um, Jocko willings And he's like extreme ownership and I realized I didn't know what it was or what I was actually doing at the time
Yeah,
but I was taking ownership of like You did this.
Yeah, right.
Like I could blame my parents. I could blame blame my grandmother, but I'm like You're eating to the point where like I would make myself sick. I looked like shit I was unhappy and I'm like, how could I expect someone else to give a shit about me when I'm clearly don't care about myself And I think that's a big problem that people are dealing with today.
It's like everybody's like I want to find love I want to find this and the the simple question ask yourself. Are you what you want? You
Yeah,
right because would you date you and it's and I don't say it to be rude. I don't say but it's like What would you what do you think you could do in your life to make you more magnetic so that more people?
Might be encouraged to want to be with you You know, I say that to a lot of people and you know Some people get offended and some people are I get what you're saying I know where you're going with this. Um, yeah,
that's, that's right. Yeah.
So you, you bulked up, right? You started lifting weights at 20 years old, 21 years old.
Yeah. And so I've been lifting ever since. And so now it's just about, uh, maintaining, um, age old
question. Natty or not?
Oh, of course. Natty.
Yeah.
Oh, yeah, yeah.
I don't know. As a, as a doctor, do you consider taking. Testosterone or peptides natural
it depends to the amount right I mean if you're taking TRT and you're like you're going beyond what is supposed to be within your normal range right then I mean then yes yeah but if you're taking something to maintain normal levels right because after 30 I mean it all after 25 really it starts to our T level start to drop mm
hmm
And so some people
argue that that's not true numbers.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.
You know, talk about statistics and numbers, right? I mean, yeah,
it's in the, you can't go by the three people that, you know, like I have a buddy who's 50, how old Ryan, 50, my buddy Ryan's 50 and his T levels are like seven 80. And I'm like, dude, you're the exception to the rule. Not every 50 year old looks like you.
That's exactly right. My father, he is 65. He just turned 65. He has a higher, higher T level than me.
Yeah.
Right? So My,
my T levels were in the gutter. For those of you out there who don't know, my T levels were in the gutter. I was having all this back pain. Um, I went to a doctor, multiple doctors. And the first couple doctors wanted to cut my back open and fuse my spine.
Oh my God. I'm a huge, uh, you know Phantom trying to figure it out with everything else. But that
yeah,
um, and I've had multiple issues, shoulder pain, back pain, neck pain. Um, and you know, mainly cause I played sports for the longest time. I was burning the candle at both ends. I was going out all the time.
I was drinking, I was working out hard. I was running marathons doing, you know, every CrossFit, everything. Um, so eventually, you know, You know, COVID hit, I hit this wall and I was having all types of back pain. I mean, Chrissy could tell you, I couldn't even tie my shoes. I was buying all slip on shoes because I couldn't even bend over.
I go see a bunch of doctors. Um, and every one of them was like, your T levels are so low. We need to send you to get a cat scan. And I go, For what? Now, two different doctors said the same thing. First guy kind of blew off. Second guy is like, wait, the other guy told me this too. What the fuck is going on?
He's like, there might be something wrong with your pituitary gland. I go get the CAT scan. They notice I have a cyst on my pituitary gland.
So
it's impinging the ability to send the signal for my body to make testosterone and human growth hormone. Finally go see this other doctor, uh, guy who used to work for me, recommend it.
Um, the other two doctors were like, here, you could put this cream on, you know? And I'm like, it was just very nonchalant as if they didn't give a shit. Uh, I went to go see this woman who's still my doctor today. She's the best Dr. K. I've actually had her on the show before. Um, and she's like, sat down with me, did blood work, went through everything.
Um, I've definitely asked her for. More testosterone than I should have asked her for and I've asked her for other shit because everybody thinks like they're like you're shredded You're on a ton of gear. I'm like if if my doctor would give me it I'd be on it Trust me, but because of the cyst on my pituitary gland, I can't take any HGH or any peptides or anything so that cancels those out and then she's like I'm not going to get you anabolics because 1.
You don't need it. 2. It's illegal. 3. It's going to fuck you up. So, when I tell people, like, my test levels are, they were 120, 130. Like, it was horrible. Yeah. Within 3 months, 4 months of me starting to take testosterone, the back pain was gone. Immediately went away. So what I tell a lot of people is I didn't know this at the time and I could get myself out of pain by doing certain exercises.
I would belt squat. I would do reverse hypers. I would do 45 degree hypers. I would do a ton of stretching. I could get myself to the point where I could work out. I'd spend like 10, 15 minutes warming up to get myself to the point where I could work out. But the problem wasn't on hardware issue and this is what I explained to a lot of my clients if you're experiencing some level black pain And this is why I wanted you on here and chat with you about it is it was a chemical and software issue I think my nerve nervous system and my endocrine system was Fucked up.
And I think that's where some pain comes from. So that's where you can jump in with your expertise and let us know.
So let's definitely talk about that. Um, and actually my find is kind of crazy. I too have the same problem. Really? Yeah. I also have a small cyst, small tumor. They say it's pretty common.
Yeah, it is very common.
Yeah. Do you think that's, you know, there's a lot of buzz around the health and wellness space about, you know, Plastics and, you know, chemicals in our food and all this stuff. Do you think that's why we're all experiencing this? Or was this something that, that has been around forever?
We just never knew.
It's so hard to tell. Yeah. I mean, you know, the, the, uh, there's a. saying, you know, if you go looking for stuff, you'll find it. So I mean, yeah, listen, plastics for sure. The fact that it's in our system, it's in our, it's in our bodies floating around constantly and our blood tells you how we've dropped the ball.
Like we said in the beginning, the whole system needs to burn down. We need a restart. Um, but like who really knows how, why, These things like what we have started
mm
hmm, and you know you mentioned about the t levels my t levels also were really bad
And what the craziest thing was I was 37 38 at the time you're 30.
Yeah, so it's happening so guys are getting younger and younger, which is scary
Yeah,
yeah
the study studies show that men have the lowest t scores Ever in history right now, which is nuts. I believe at the epitome of our technology and supposedly our health, we're having these issues.
I say with, you know, because I still have people come to me and thank God because I still have a job, but you know, people still come to me and they're like, I don't know how to work out.
I don't know what I should be doing. I don't. I figured out at 13 years old in 1996, when there was no, I mean, the internet was at its birth, right? No one even really knew how to use it. I don't even think we had a computer in my house. Um, You know, and I was getting all my information out of magazines from a bunch of guys who just did bro science, you know I was with Victor Martinez the bodybuilder.
Mm hmm robot a couple weeks ago at the mr Olympia and I said I go when you guys were because I'm gonna like to have him on the show eventually but we were talking I was like when When you guys were training back in the nineties, late eighties, early nineties, I go, where are you guys counting macros? He goes, dude, nobody ever did any of that shit.
He goes, none of us did that. He goes, we just ate a ton of protein. He goes, nobody's count. He goes, Get bigger. You just ate more. You just ate more protein. You ate more carbs. Um, he's like, he kept your fats low and you stayed away from the shit that didn't work. And I'm like, that's kind of what I tell my clients is like follow guidelines.
I think the idea of following macros becomes too much of a daunting task for a lot of people where they're like, Oh, this is so much I give up. I'm just going to continue to be a fat slob.
It is a lot.
Yeah.
Again, for someone like you and I, who have been doing this for a long time, for us, a lot of these things can be automatic.
You know, if we need to change our diet or lifestyle, we can do so.
We've been. Chippin away at it for a long time.
Yes, exactly. Um, I think that there's just people also don't know what's in their food No, you know unless you're keeping it super simple. I don't know what your diet looks like. Mine is the same Every single day.
I mean I get people making fun of me all the time because I eat watermelon and steak every day And I was like, that's all you eat. Yeah, I was like amazing. Yeah, I go it I could eat a ton of watermelon so it Like my cravings go down. I get a little bit of that sugar. I get a little bit of fiber You know, that's not a ton of calories You know and I basically eat it till I'm full and then I eat some steak as protein and I get the fats out of That and you know, it's pretty simple diet and I enjoy it I finally found at 41 years old a diet that I really enjoy but like for the most part I mean she could tell you I eat fruit and meat That's it.
And like people are like, you don't need a ton of vegetables. I was like, no, really. I mean, if it's there every once in a while, like I like asparagus, I like some spinach every once in a while, but I'm never, no one fucking craves vegetables. No one's like, Oh man, I'd love to have some zucchini right now.
It's like, fuck wants to eat that.
Hey, I know someone who craves Brussels sprouts all the time. Really? Yeah. You do? No, I was going to say, not me, but, uh, you know, But people have the weirdest cravings, but as long as it works for you and you have to maintain your energy levels, your focus, your optimal, you know, internal, right?
Like we're going to loop back to what you mentioned a second, but it's only feel good.
I feel good. And I, I, I know there's a lot of, uh, I think people are catching onto it now, but growing up, you know, I've had girlfriends in the past who always dealt with like stomach issues because they, All thought they should be starving themselves and only eating salads and avocado toast and shit And now you're starting to see a lot more women adopting a high protein diet And you're hearing about less of these stomach issues and you know, um, you know, we had a client who She'd come in every day My son's killed my son.
So I sent her to three different doctors. I gave her the answer. They gave her the same answer Mm hmm. You need to start introducing some sort of protein into your diet. You can't be vegan and Eating and going out and drinking all the time and expect your body to work the way you expect it to work
Speaking of which I was vegan for four years Terrible
I mean, where did it did it make you sick?
I went pescatarian for like six months felt great I did I felt great for the first like four or five months and then like by the six months I'm, like my stomach's killing me. I'm like what the fuck is going on As soon as I literally within a day, I introduced meat back into my diet like chicken and stuff
Normalized?
Yeah, I was fine. So, uh, this is the thing, like, between all these, like, drastic changes in lifestyle, right? Even if it's pescatarian, that's still a drastic change. Mm hmm. Cutting out Food. Yeah. Red meat poultry. Right. Um, some people are genetically made for it. Some people are not, there are some people who are vegans who like, hold like, damn, they're huge.
Yeah. I
look amazing. I did it first year and a half. I will say I felt great, clean, efficient, all that stuff. But then problems started happening. T level started dropping. Energy started dropping, depressive symptoms, mind fog. Um, I plateaued. I, like, just to give you some stats, my heaviest overhead press, barbell press was 135.
Could not break, could not break 135 past four or five reps. My squats were stuck under 225. Could not do it could not for the life gotta be way fucking more though. Now. Yeah, my overhead press is 230 Yeah, I was gonna
say
yeah
Overhead press if you're not pressing over 200 pounds, i'd be shocked
230.
Yeah,
that's my that's my PR.
Yeah All right, my my squats 405 that looks like the rdl is 315. No problem Yeah, but that's like talk about the second next day. I did I slowly start to implement fish back in I did three months at a time. So after I decided, okay, you know I'm done with the vegan lifestyle. I can't do this anymore. My body is imploding.
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, over the first three months, My strength doubled I put on like 15 20 pounds. Yeah, like I was able they just washed over me
Well, that's crazy what I tell people all the time. They're like, well, okay. I want to build more muscle. I'm like, okay Are you eating enough protein because you everybody's talking about it?
Everybody hears it but protein when I grew up This was when I was a gym rat in high school in college when I started to really study and understand the Age old definition of protein is the building block of muscle. Yes, and fat and carbs are fuel.
Mm
hmm.
So if I want to build muscle, well then I'm going to need some fucking bricks to build it.
Yeah, and not every brick is made the same. Yeah, right. A gram of protein from chicken does not have the same amino acids as a gram of protein from peanuts.
Yeah,
you know, like it's just, it's just not at the same.
Yeah,
and so I think that's also a major, major thing. And I believe that I supplemented. With every I supplemental carnitine.
'cause there's no carnitine in any, you know, veggie based proteins. Yep. Uh, which is super important for muscle development, super important for testosterone. Um, and none, none of it helped. And my, I was getting 230 to 260 grams of protein every day.
260. Wow. That's a lot.
Yeah. Well, I'm, I'm 2 55, but,
and what was it like a lot of supplement.
Were you taking supplements and stuff too? When
I was vegan? Yeah. Tons. Yeah. Because I was trying so desperately to hold on to it.
Yeah.
Even though it was What made you do it? Why'd
you want to do it?
Oh, here we go. Uh, so Yep.
Ha ha ha. There it is. There it is. So Anything, anytime you do something stupid, it's for a significant other.
God
damn it. Yeah.
Uh That's why I moved to New York. Oh, really? Yeah. Yeah. Oh. I would have never left Jersey. I should still be in Jersey rightfully live in my Jersey roots now, but good thing I did.
I don't know But yeah, I mean the way she got me it wasn't just like hey, you should be vegan She she did show me different studies and I was like, okay.
Well, I'm a man of health I'm I'm in medicine if there's a better way to live I'm down and that's why I did it for yeah I was strict for four years Like I did the thing that's crazy committed completely because I thought that was the best thing to do for my body Mm hmm, and then the moment I realized that I can't do this anymore.
I stopped Yeah, you you got to be flexible enough to change direction to do what's best for you and your body if being vegan for you Is great. Okay, like if your blood is great if your energy levels are great if you're productive you're strong go for it
I tell people all the time. They're like, oh, do you think I should do it?
I go it's like anything else in life programming You know where you live it doesn't matter Certain people, and the simplest way to think about it is I could eat peanuts and drop dead, you could eat peanuts and love it. Everybody adapts different ways. You know, there are certain people who can take supplementation.
Like we can take, when people are like, oh, why don't you just take peptide? Well, physically we can't do it. Yeah. You know?
Yeah.
Medically, we can't do it because it's going to be a bigger problem, but the people who can take it, they look great on it.
Yeah, there's nothing wrong with it. I'd love to take some BPC 157.
Me fucking too. I can't. Yeah, me too. By the way, I don't know if you, so there's TRT, right? Have you ever tried TST?
What's that?
So testosterone stimulating therapy. So instead of, so it
stimulates pituitary.
Right, so something like in clomiphene.
Okay.
Um, so I'm actually Playing around with that right now myself.
Are you do you take TRT right now? No,
no, not TRT.
Okay.
Remember I'm Natty.
Yeah
No, no, but so in clomiphene it it stimulates naturally From like just naturally from your testicles. It brings out normal levels. Yeah So I'm I have my check probably about end of this week or next week to see what those numbers are And we're gonna do a brain MRI as well to see has there been any change.
Yeah in the side How often you going and getting that checked? The, the,
so,
um, it was going to be once every six to eight months, but now that I'm doing in clomiphene, we're going to do a little bit sooner.
Okay. I need to, I need to go back and get mine checked.
It's always good to check,
but
usually there's signs.
So like, if it's really actually interrupting anything, if you're starting to go blind, that's what I was going to say,
that happens. And I literally been saying recently, I don't know if this is like, I see fine. Distance wise, I wear contacts, but now it's at night when I'm looking at my phone. Like my vision's terrible.
I don't know if that's just me getting old.
Was the vision bad or like sometimes you can't see?
No, my vision's
bad. So it might just be, uh, just me
getting old. Forty plus club. It's coming for me too. Um, so now tell me a little bit about the back pain or like what you've experienced.
Right, so, um, as someone who has experienced back pain, right, I've had a disc herniation, um, my brother had two to the point where doctors also wanted to cut him open to fuse his spine.
Yeah,
yeah.
And thank, thank God that didn't happen. Yeah, yeah. That's, that's the most archaic, just medieval thing. So when I
give that recommendation to people, I, I have no medical background, um, but I think there is something to bro science, I think there is something to, uh, People who have experienced it before.
I asked my doctor, the original doctor that I had went to for my back pain. And I said, sir, with all due respect, one, because he looked like he's never seen the inside of a gym to, do you understand the capabilities of what you can do with your body? If you exercise, no amount of exercise is going to help what you have.
I said, okay, but I could get myself out of pain. So there needs to be some level of. Uh, you know, efficiency to that one to have you ever dealt with back pain before he's a person. No, I've never had back. Yeah, I go. So that's like saying, Hey, you lost a parent. I understand what that would be like having never lost a parent.
I could sympathize with you, but to have the true empathy, I'm like, Fuck dude. Yeah, I've been there before, you know, I, I know exactly what that feels like. I think to understand now when people come to me with back pain, I'm like, let me, I'll do whatever it is I could to help you. Let me recommend a couple doctors to you.
Let me, you know, and she can tell you I've worked on people for hours for free because I'm like, I know what you're dealing with and this it literally is debilitating
Yes.
To the point where it's like, you don't want to get out of bed. You're in a shitty mood. You feel terrible. You start eating like shit.
Yeah.
Well, this is exactly the kind of people who I deal with. Whether we're talking about backs or knees or hips or shoulders, I can't tell you how many times a patient comes to me and they're like, my doctor told me I have knee bone on bone arthritis on my knee, which is such a garbage term phrase to even throw out.
Thank you. I see nothing.
Right now I'm dealing with this. Like my, Everybody's telling me that my meniscus keeps getting caught or it's torn and like my knee popped a couple months ago doing jiu jitsu There was a point I couldn't even close my leg now I could close it when it does catch or whatever is going on in there I could kind of maneuver it but it's I feel like it's coming from my hip I move I move my leg like this and I'm like, okay It un pops and it's fine, but like when it does catch and I close it or like somebody pushes down on my leg and like jiu jitsu and it catches or something, it's like so painful and then I could like kind of maneuver my hip and I get out of it.
I'm like, I don't think it's my meniscus. I think something else is going on in there and I understand the body enough. Not as much as you do, obviously, but I understand it enough where. Everyone I work with and everybody I work out with is like, dude, just go get the surgery. They cut the little extra piece of skin and I go, or extra tendon.
I'm going to go, I'm not letting somebody cut my fucking knee open to do what? To cut a piece of tendon.
And then you know what happens? What? They get that procedure and they're in pain anyway.
I say that all the, I know so many people who have reached out to me on social media and stuff. Be like, Hey, I'm dealing with this back pain.
I'm just going to go get the surgery. And they're in worse pain. Yeah. Cause you can't figure it out. And this is what I, and this is how I explain it to people. I go, I'm a moron, but, and I need the simplest terms and everything. If the lights are out in this room. And I start patching up the walls. It's not going to turn the fucking lights on.
I need to go and find the electrical box and fuck with that to see if I could get the lights back on. Right?
Exactly.
So everybody's looking to fix this structural issue when I go. I don't think it's a structural issue I could use my knee. I could squat with it. I deadlift with it. I've run with it It's just when I get into certain movement patterns That it now tightens up or whatever's going on in there.
So I go for somebody to cut my knee open and fix the hardware. I don't think that's the issue.
No. And so let me give you a little bit of a timeline here too. Right? So, and again, you can continue to have, have a meniscus tear, do nothing about it and be totally fine, but. Injury X happens, so let's, let's keep it with the knee.
Yeah. Right. Something happens within the knee. Mm-hmm . It's painful. You, you said yourself, you had a very hard time bending it. Mm-hmm . Great. So now you have a limitation in your range of motion, which then as a byproduct of that, you have certain muscle structures which are not going through their full length or full shortening.
Great. Now you have big muscle groups that run through the knee, both down to the foot. Up to the hip that start limiting range of motion from there. You start compensating because of the pain. Great. Now you have other bigger muscles through the chain, also impacting how you move and how you function.
Great. And now you're having like all these different chains of reactions that even once you get the range of motion back, again, that click, Because especially when it's a positional click right when you have your leg a certain way bending in a certain direction That's when you can feel that catch you can probably work through that if you're running on it if you're dead lifting on if you're squatting On it.
There's probably something that triggers that when you go through a rotation at the hip. Yeah, for example your IT bend Your IT band connects right to the lateral part of your knee and goes a little bit beyond it. But it's controlled by your glute medius, your TFL, and your glute maximus. These are all rotational muscles.
And like you just showed me, it's in a rotational position where it catches. Yep. So maybe you gotta work through that. Yeah. Right? Now when we talk about something like the back, which, again, the statistic is correct. Crazy high. It could be everything. It could be so many different. I fixed shoulders. Yes.
Yeah.
I fixed a little back pain by working on someone's neck. Yeah. I fixed a little back pain by working on someone's hip.
I've, I've fixed a little back pain by fixing somebody's calves, hamstrings, feet.
It's all connected. Yes. Right. And you have to understand what. What is the actual contributing factors?
And especially with something like the back. There are so many things that impact. There are so many ways that your back and your torso can move that people don't move. People that typically have issues with back pain and someone like you, someone like myself, we've had it bending down. Twisting, right?
Loading. When people have low back pain, they are scared and terrified of loading their spine. Or anything, yeah. Yeah. They think that you have to move in a very particular way just to avoid your back from crumbling like origami paper. Yeah. That's not how that works. Yeah. If you ever look at the bones of your lower back, they are the thickest, biggest, I don't know if you'll have to curse here.
Yeah.
Motherfuckers. I've been dropping F bombs all the time. But they're thick as hell. Yeah. Well, but here's the thing. People. Constantly say, Oh, I have a herniated, I have four herniated discs in my back. So I go, okay, so with four herniated discs, if it was this severe, you shouldn't be able to walk around right now.
I go, if you, if the human body was that frail and that fragile, do you think we would have made it millions of years here before doctors, right? You know, let's say 500 years ago, right? People still lived to their 60s, 70s, so on, you know, it wasn't common, you know, there was a lot more ways to die and we didn't have medicine like we do today, but people could still grow old.
You know, I think that people nowadays. Doctors are telling them, and I'm not knocking all doctors, I love my doctor. The doctors I work with understand and they're ahead of the curve. They're not these dinosaurs who want to say, Oh, you need to get surgery all the time for everything. They're, they advise people to do everything else.
Like, the first recommendation, this is what I tell everyone. The first recommendation from any doctor that is worth a fiddler's fuck is, is Workout move, move, take care of yourself after that. Now you need to fix your diet, get sleep, right? Hydrate. Those are all the like, you know, low hanging fruit that everyone should be doing when you handle all that.
Then you could start to explore some of the other shit. Then you could start to, Hey, cold plunge, heat therapy, all this bullshit. Because people are like, well, should I be cold plunging? I don't know. You can't even fucking go to bed at night. What are you owning? The cold plunge right now, it's not helping.
But like you said, movement is the number one answer. And going back to the healthcare system, this is one of the biggest problems. There's still people today, even though there's tons of really great RCTs and research against it saying, Doctors saying your disc herniation. Yeah. You're gonna have to deal with that for the rest of your life.
Are you freaking crazy?
Yeah.
And this is, you talk about the fragility that people have about their own bodies. It is. And I get, like you said, excuse the
shit out of
people, of course, and not to paint with a broad brush, you know, cross all dogs. I love my doctor too. There's a lot of doctors, which I think are phenomenal and are up to date with how the body actually works.
But there are so many people, so many doctors who are stuck 20, 30 years ago, old research that just research that. Is garbage. Yeah, and it's not the same anymore.
I tell people if you when people say oh, I want to go see my physical therapist or my chiropractor They laid me on a table. I go stop right there.
Did they give you heat therapy and electric stim? Yeah. Yeah All right, find a new doctor garbage find a new doctor because that's they're just putting your Insurance through the system. Exactly. Yeah. Running your medical. I rather pay. I pay my doctor out of pocket. I, if when I come see you, I'm going to pay out of pocket.
I rather do that. And people are like, well, certain people can't afford that. Well, how much is getting out of pain worth to you? Because when I didn't have it, I'd rather pay somebody or figure out some sort of payment system, which I'm sure you would do for certain people if they couldn't do it. You know, hey, I'm in severe pain.
What else could I do? I need this type of therapy or look into alternative types of medicine because if you're in pain, the type of pain, I would have paid anything. There was a point where I told her, I was like, I don't think I'm ever going to be able to run again. This is so debilitating and it's hurt so bad now, after dealing with that and going through that now with everything, I'm like, okay, if I take myself through the hierarchy of what I should be able to do, it's like, all right, can I get range of motion?
What can I do to help me get into that position? And if that positions hurt or there's something broken, all right, that's one thing. But can I get through the range of motion after I do that? Can I stabilize and mobilize that position? And then I could start to strengthen it because I have, I mean, she could tell you most of my clients are well into their 50s, 60s, 70s.
I have three 80 year olds, you know, and they're like, I can't do that. I'm like, yes, you can calm down. I'll walk you through this. I would never give you something that you can't do. Um, and I see these guys two, three, four times a week now. Because they're like, I just feel better when I leave here. I don't know what the fuck's going on, but yeah.
So I'm like, yeah, movement's incredible. And I say, I go, if you break your hand, the first thing that happens is it swells up, blood rushes to that area. Like that's your body's automatic response to heal the area. Exactly. You know? And I go now, after it's healed, now you got to continue to get blood flow.
So don't, where do you think the idea of, Hey, you're hurt. Stay in bed. Don't move. Rest. Old
medicine. That's it. Old medicine. The whole rice principle, rest, ice, compress, elevate. Yeah. Oh, garbage. Absolutely. I had a guy who came with a broken clavicle.
Yeah,
two weeks post. So still massively bruised swollen. I got him out of the thing I started having him move within within reason.
Yeah,
not to aggravate the fracture, but moving the elbow. Yeah, right moving the wrist When I tell
people that they're like, no, I can't move I go Eventually you have to why do you think if you're 20 years old 30 years old even 60 years old doesn't matter You're like well, I can't move in that plane of motion You're going to live like this for the rest of your life.
If you told me I couldn't move like that for a day, it would upset me. You're okay. You've digested the idea that you're never going to squat all the way to the bottom ever again. Yes. You're never going to reach it. I can't deadlift. I can never deadlift. So you're never going to go down and reach for something off the floor because that's essentially what I'm asking you to do.
This is one of the biggest problems that I see. Like, again, with this kind of rationale of thinking, right, there's two things. One, there's an internal belief that is usually fueled by an external belief, which comes from an external person, like a provider, who's feeding them nonsense, outdated medicine, right?
Fears come from somewhere, right? Again, like, yeah, okay, we can't do it. Something hurts. That'll make us fear, fearful. That'll make us stressed. We'll have a spike in our anxiety levels when it pertains to certain movements, we'll try to avoid them, right? Like bending down to the floor. These internal and external beliefs have to be broken and it sounds like that's what you absolutely do with your clients, which is amazing
Yeah,
but people don't have that on a regular.
No one tries to hold off and and just take it easy
It's it's very hard to find the right doctor. Yes a good trainer somebody who actually gives a shit who's been through it Who does care, you know, because I think I was just bitching the other day because I'm In the middle of building out this other gym and I'm dealing with contractors and I go, I just don't understand a practitioner in any field who doesn't want to do the best by people.
Right? Because that's your calling card. That's what you're going to be known for. Yeah. So when people want to recommend you, like, that's why you're successful is because people are like, Oh, this guy gives a shit. He comes, you know, he takes care of me. He spends that extra time with me. You know, he, he, Wants to know that I'm out of pain or I'm at I I feel good about the situation first thing I always ask people like before and after a session, how are you feeling because Everything is based on how we feel we make decisions on how we feel if i'm scared i'm not going there Or I'm not doing that.
If I feel good, or I feel confident, I'm ready to take on the challenge. So it's all based on how we feel. Of course. What do you, what do you say would be some of your protocols that you would recommend to people who are like, Hey, I'm experiencing low back pain, or I'm experiencing the shoulder pain. What are the first three things I should do before I go and see some Wacko wants to just cut me open or I saw somebody who wants to give me surgery What could I do to test if this is actually a real problem?
Come see me There you go. That's it. It's an easy answer. Look pain is unique, right? I can have 20 people come in with low back pain and all 20 will be treated completely differently different testing different protocols different home programs different actual Things that we do in the office together, everything will be different.
Do you believe in manual therapy and stuff?
Oh, this is, this is a great question. I used to be very, very big into manual therapy. And then I decided to drop it. I use it about five to 10 percent of the time. I even have a technique that I created myself that's trademarked and everything. Um, I've, I've opened up a lot of people's lives with it.
Um, or at least I thought that's what I was doing. Um, rather I was opening up their lives, but it wasn't the reason that I thought it was. And, um, I'm a very, very big, my, all my manual tests, the first five minutes that I start to work with someone is all movement based.
Yeah.
I only place my hands on anybody if I absolutely think it's necessary, whether it's for a physical cue or if it's literally to see, okay, if picking up your leg hurts, what if I press into the muscle in your hip or muscle in your back?
Does it make it any better? And that just gives me a sign of okay. I think maybe there's a little bit more of an involvement from these muscle groups or those muscle groups, if that provides assistance.
Yeah.
And then I just continue on with the movement. So manual therapy, I think, has its place in certain Certain things I think like the grass and I think those kinds of things or deep tissue massages a lot of them That's just you don't need that.
Yeah,
if you're talking about strictly for recovery post workout, maybe there's a conversation to be had but for pain relief
Yeah, well, you're Russian right and I know I work out or used to work out with some guys who And this is where I got into cold plunging and heat therapy and all this stuff. Uh, they're big into the massage.
They say, you know, if you're a weightlifter or a wrestler in Eastern Europe or Russia, that that's part of the protocol. Like, you lift, you train, you do heat therapy, you do cold plunge, you do massage therapy. Is the massage therapy just for a relaxation factor or do you think there's actually some sort of science behind the manipulation of what they're doing with your body?
So I think massage therapy, first of all, I think it's great for, for relaxation. Again, it does have neurological responses within the body. Uh, it does feel good for the person. Same as like, you know, what's better heat or cold, right? Whichever, whichever you feel better with. They both produce the same results.
Actually, Not no difference. You sprain your ankle, right? Usually people say, Oh, you should put ice on it. You could put heat on it. It's the same thing.
Yeah. Yeah.
Right. It's whatever the person responds better to. Um, so I think that all these modalities are great, but from a pain relief standpoint,
moving,
moving, right?
Because again, an injured area, an injured joint, an injured muscle, it needs to move. We are movement creatures. You have to move. Um, and again, sometimes these modalities can be assisted. Can assist the process of moving but movement has to be the focus again massage is nice cold punch is great I love cold punches to heat exposure.
Love that stuff.
Yeah,
you know, that's uh, you know, russian bathhouse That's that's all it is. I love that eight hours straight.
Yeah,
right.
I go to uh, the bathhouse over here on 20 21st street you ever been there yet? Oh, no.
I've been oh, it's amazing.
You have
to
go
I've been to the one down on Wall Street,
but yeah, yeah, I used to go to that one, too I mean, this is a totally different experience.
Yeah,
that's a lot nicer, but I used that's where he started going Um, and then there's also this place called other ship like right around the block.
I heard about that spot.
Yeah, it's pretty cool Yeah, I think this is a good buzz around it. Um But uh, what the hell is I gonna ask you? um
massage therapy
No, uh, so what's your thoughts on acupuncture?
So acupuncture again, I know some great acupuncturists as well, right? It's Whatever someone responds well to but even if it's acupuncture again, the the thing behind it is you have to move Right 10 people go to acupuncture five will love it five will hate it because it did nothing. Yeah, it's super personal I think too um But at the end of the day again, if it's coupled or combined with movement You Then great same you might ask me next question is gonna be with a chiropractor,
right?
Well, I think yeah I think a lot of people I think a lot of people are like, oh, I love my chiropractor I'm like listen if you love it, great. Do I think it's doing much for you getting your back cracked or your neck cracked?
Let's talk about it. So they've done it on their MRI, so you could literally see how things move.
Yeah.
And so it moves like a fraction of an inch and then it moves right back. The reason why people feel good is because again of that neurological response with the brain, the pain center, which is a, drops the pain typically. My beef with chiropractors, and again, I know a lot of great ones. My beef with them is that if they do the crack as a standalone, to me, that that ain't doing it.
Right? Because then you're just having them come back week after week after week. My goal is to get my patients to leave.
Yeah, yeah. Make room for new ones. There's plenty of people with pain. I mean, I've never driven past. NYU on like 30, what is it, 31st or whatever it is on 1st Avenue. And there's not a hundred people waiting in that waiting room.
You'll never run out of people.
Well, 21%, right? That's millions,
millions, millions millions of people, especially here in the city. Yeah. If you ask, so part of the protocol in teaching group classes, I've been doing it for, you know, almost 15 years now. Yeah. At any place I've ever worked, including the ones that I own myself, everybody always wants to be asked, do you have any pain?
The fuck am I a doctor? I'm not going to cure your pain. If you're in that much pain, one, you shouldn't be here. Two, I can give you alternative movements, but you're now looking for private training or, you know, one on one time that In a room full of 30, 40 people, it's going to be pretty hard for everybody to stop what they're doing.
So I could just work with you or have you come off to the side and have you do whatever. But people would always get upset. Like, Oh, you didn't ask if we have any. You know pain or anything because as soon as you open up that box Everybody's like, uh, my heart my box my fucking my feet my this it's like, oh my boyfriend broke my heart It's like wait, shut up.
There's too much every as soon as you open up that box. Everybody has a complaint So back to your point, it's like you're never going to run out of clients You're never going to run out of people that need help. Um, I think even to the to that point it's like Even when people don't have pain, they'll make up pain.
If you're opening up the floor for people to have the pain, right?
Hopefully not, but I bet as
a physical therapist, right? How many times you go home or to a family party or some, you know,
I've been dealing with this thing. Yeah. Right. Oh my God. I can't, I can't go to vacation. I can't go to a family event.
As
soon as they, as soon as they hear you're a physical therapist, could you look at something for me real quick? I'm a plumber. Sorry. I mean, And trust me, I can't go. I was just at a wedding on Sunday night and people like, what do you, do you think I should eat this? I'm like, do you think you should fucking, if you're having pizza three days a week, three times a week, do you think you think that's a good idea?
No. So then why the fuck you asking me? What a stupid question. No. Put the mirror in front of them. Just ask it to themselves. Yeah. I'm like, how many times you think I ate pizza in the last? Month, you know, it's like every once in a while. I love pizza, but you know, keep it to a minimum doc You have been nothing but a pleasure to chat with where could everybody find you on social media and here in the city and online
So, um, we'll start with online on with Instagram so if you want to go to Instagram, you can go to official Danny Shapiro on Facebook It's project physical therapy and that's the name of my practice which is located on 35th street between 7th and 8th avenue Or you can go to projectphysicaltherapy.
com and get a free 30 minute consultation Nice with you With me, with my team. That's awesome. We have another therapist. That's
great.
And that's where we can get some help going.
Yeah. I wish you would have came to Strong New York this year.
I know. I know. I would have loved to. You were away, right? I was, I was working.
Oh, we got
to get you a booth there next year. Let's
do it. Yeah. I'm there next year for sure. Yeah. Either as a, as a visitor or as a, yeah, whatever it is, I'd love to
do so. I'd love to have you to get you there because we, we kind of preach the same good word. You know, because a lot of people are like, Oh, you can't be telling people.
I'm like, I'm not a fucking doctor. You can listen to me. You can't listen to me. I don't give a shit, but I'm telling you from my experience, from the bro science that I have, I've dealt with plenty of people who've told me they have had back pain. I've had back pain myself. I've gotten many people out of back pain.
I've talked to many people out of surgeries who still thank me to this day. I'll get Christmas cards. Every year being like, thank you for, you know, talk me out of getting hip surgery. There's no re very few times should a 30 something year old or a 20 something year old get hip surgery.
Absolutely. Right.
Absolutely. Is that not insane? It's nuts.
Yeah.
A doctor who recommended that
is an absolute fuck it.
Yeah. In the face.
Dr. Danny. Thank you. Thank you, buddy. I appreciate it, man.
We appreciate it.