Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
AI First with Adam and Andy: Inspiring Business Leaders to Make AI First Moves is a dynamic podcast focused on the unprecedented potential of AI and how business leaders can harness it to transform their companies. Each episode dives into real-world examples of AI deployments, the "holy shit" moments where AI changes everything, and the steps leaders need to take to stay ahead. It’s bold, actionable, and emphasizes the exponential acceleration of AI, inspiring CEOs to make AI-first moves before they fall behind.
Greg Gottesman (00:00)
I mean, I can count on one hand, I've been doing this for almost 30 years and one hand, the number of times I'm like, yeah, that failed because we couldn't build the product, the technology, we couldn't figure out the technology. I mean, that's where we spend a lot of our time.
Adam Brotman (00:12)
I'm
Greg Gottesman (00:13)
Ironically, you look back, I spend all this time on product, so much time on trying to build this darn thing. And so rarely is that why you fail. Almost always it's because you couldn't figure out
Adam Brotman (00:13)
to stop here. I'm going to stop there. I'm going to stop there. I'm going to I'm going stop there. I'm going there. I'm I'm stop there.
Greg Gottesman (00:26)
cost effective distribution. And in this new AI world, to your point, Andy, that has become even harder because building product has now become easier.
And so what that's led to is more competition. it used to be maybe there'd be three or four companies would pop up. Now it's
Andy Sack (00:45)
This is AI First with Adam and Andy, the show that takes you straight to the front lines of AI innovation and business. I'm Andy Sack and alongside my co-host, Adam Brotman, each episode we bring you candid conversations with business leaders transforming their businesses with AI. No fluff, just real talk, actionable insights and use cases for you.
Today we have Greg Gottesman from Pioneer Square Labs, a friend of both Adam and I from Seattle, Washington. Greg, welcome to the show. Glad to have you.
Greg Gottesman (01:30)
Andy, know, you and I have been friends for a while, but I've known Adam since we were in, God, middle school, maybe elementary school.
Adam Brotman (01:36)
That's right. We go
way back.
Andy Sack (01:40)
Greg, just to start off the podcast, do you have a story of Adam Brotman in middle school that you'd like to share?
Greg Gottesman (01:47)
He's very popular. He was part of the popular crowd.
We all looked up to Adam, for sure.
Adam Brotman (01:54)
I think that's revisionist history, but I'll take it for now.
Greg Gottesman (01:57)
Thank you.
Andy Sack (01:59)
He's still popular. I can only imagine middle school Adam and middle school Greg. Well, much of our audience is not that interested in us reminiscing. think what we want to get into is, Greg, let's start with just introduction. Would you introduce yourself?
Greg Gottesman (02:17)
Yeah, I'm Greg Gottesman. I've been, uh, uh, got you in the venture capital entrepreneurship business for almost 30 years now. Um, I helped to start a firm here in town called Madrona Venture Group. Um, and was there for, you know, it was a partner there, original partner there for, for over, you know, over 20 years.
Started Pioneer Square Labs, which is a venture capital firm and also a startup studio I start in addition to investing in hundreds of companies I've also started a bunch of companies probably the most well known as I was the founder and original CEO of a company called Rover comm which is a She's the world's largest pet services business. I've been teaching Entrepreneurship at the University of Washington and the computer science department business school for the last 25 years Actually class starts here in a month
Adam Brotman (03:03)
So,
Greg Gottesman (03:11)
and starting in winter quarter. So, and I just love everything that we're going to talk about. Everything I'm doing right now is AI. Everything we're doing at Pioneer Square Labs is AI, AI first, both in terms of investments, the companies we're starting, transforming our current companies into AI, you know, first companies.
And then frankly, thinking about how we replace ourselves as both sort of ⁓
Adam Brotman (03:29)
and that's what to We're a lot of research and a
lot of research we're going do a of research and we're a lot of and we're lot research we're going to do a lot of and to we're lot and we're going do a lot we're going to lot of research and we're going to we're lot we're going lot we're a lot of and and of of of research and
Greg Gottesman (03:36)
venture capital and also startup studios, we've got some products that we've come out with now that are basically trying to be an AI co-founder. So spend all my time thinking about this topic that we're gonna delve into hopefully here.
Andy Sack (03:49)
Yeah, so before diving in, just to clarify a little bit, could you explain what is a start? I think people know Venture Capital. You've been a long-term venture capitalist with
Madrona. What is a startup studio for our audience, just simply?
Greg Gottesman (04:04)
Yeah, so Pioneer Square Labs, we have a venture capital fund, which is a traditional fund like the one that you're saying most people understand, which is we invest in companies that...
come to us. also start companies from scratch and sometimes that can be ideas that we have other times. Entrepreneurs will approach us and we'll and we'll start it and be a co-founder with that with that with that other founder and see if we can create a company from the ground up.
Adam Brotman (04:28)
I'm going go ahead start with the question you the out of the data?
Greg Gottesman (04:34)
and help with everything from building the product to getting funding to go to market. Every conceivable thing that we could do to help the company be successful, we'll try to do. We've spun out now 43 venture-backed companies at Pioneer Square Labs, which is a...
Adam Brotman (04:35)
And we have a tendency to do that, but that has to be the same answer as the question of how do get of the data? And I think that's just a good question. So, I'm ahead and with the of how do you get the data data? And I think that's just good question. So, start with the question you get
Greg Gottesman (04:54)
which is quite a few.
A fun one as an example is we started the world's largest digital immigration agency called Boundless as an example of a company that we started in our lab from scratch. yeah, that's a startup studio is somewhere between being a venture capitalist and an entrepreneur.
Andy Sack (05:16)
It's a startup factory, think is the simplest description. Adam, do you want to?
Greg Gottesman (05:22)
I'll tell you, under
attack a little bit though, and we'll talk about this, because AI, a lot of our value proposition was we can help you get to market faster. We can do some of the things that you would have done if you hire a team. We can do it sort of in a new, faster way. AI actually makes that value proposition harder. Yeah.
Andy Sack (05:43)
Does a lot of that. Yeah.
Yeah. I bet. Adam, you want to kick us off with a question for Greg and start talking about?
Adam Brotman (05:52)
Yeah,
Greg, we, as you know, Andy and I worked with mostly non startups with these sort of established, particularly consumer brand companies called mid market, know, a couple hundred million dollars in revenue, some public, some private, but they're not startups. And
We are trying to help them develop an understanding and a framework around AI and how they bring AI to the table in everything they do. So not just an AI shiny object application that they might want to use like some chat bot to help improve customer support or customer service or customer experience or something for their employees or whatever. We encourage that, but that's not our starting point. Our starting point is how do they act more like
an AI native company, even though they're an established company by understanding that the AI can help every functional leader do their job better by augmenting what they do and sometimes even replacing what they do to make better decisions faster, to improve their capabilities as a company so that ultimately that trickles down to like better performance. So that's what we do. But we're dealing with like transformation because these are not AI native companies, need to transform.
You're I'm guessing Greg, and you can tell us, I'm guessing that nowadays and I think you alluded to this second ago, most of your companies that are coming out of and being worked on through Printer Square Labs are AI native. They're working on AI products, probably, and AI capabilities, but they're also themselves just really proficient at using AI to help them in everything they do, not just the product they put on the field. So can you kind of tell us a little bit more about your perspective on
an AI native company doesn't have to go through an AI transformation in terms of doing their basic work. Is that true, by the way? Or are you surprised at how can this company that's building an AI product not be using AI to help them do planning and HR and finance and strategy and whatnot? Or is it just my right that it's happening endemically from the beginning with the kind of companies you support?
Greg Gottesman (08:04)
Well, we work with some larger companies too, to help them spin out companies. That's a third part of the Pioneer Square Labs business. So we are involved with some companies that are definitely not AI first. And we have existing portfolio companies that we're trying to figure out how to make them more effective at using AI. And then we have companies that we're starting or investing in from the ground up. And those I think are
more likely to be what you just suggested, Adam, which is AI, you know, AI native. I do think though that every company, all of us,
are still not truly AI native. What I mean by that is...
I think every company is still trying to figure out how to become AI native. When I think of AI native, I think of it as something that's going to happen maybe in the next year or two or three, which is every company, everyone, no matter how AI forward you are, you're still basically human with AI in the loop. So you're human and you're augmented by AI. That's cursor.
You know, you know, that's Claude code. That's even if you're using agents, you're essentially using them to augment your work for the most part. And you're basically human with some AI sprinkled on where I think we're headed. And when I think of AI native is I think of it as AI with human sprinkled. AI is actually doing the work, doing a lot of the functions.
And humans are coming in to check on that work. think very few, even the most AI native companies are even close to that.
Adam Brotman (09:46)
Got it. And so it's interesting to listen to you because we actually, we actually have a lot of the companies we work with. And I don't know if you've experienced this, Greg, where they're not even human with AI in the loop or, you know, human with AI sprinkled on there. They're, they're trying to do that. They're, they're not even at that step. You're
You're thinking about companies that are like using AI all the time, they're not, but they're not, haven't gone to that next step. Do you, you know, would you say that like all of your startups that are, that are AI today, that's not where we're going with today. are they using AI to help them make decisions, to do strategy, to do planning? Like I'm talking about like, they, are they bringing it to the table?
everything they do and they're trying to like you said flip it to being truly AI native or do you still see some of your startups like still just not I do ever question your founders or your CEOs and say you know why aren't you using AI for that or is it like no no they're teaching you about AI they're using AI for everything
Greg Gottesman (10:56)
let me tell you about two types of startups.
And these would be startups that I think are trying hard to use AI that are variations on humans with AI sprinkled in. So most startups I still feel like are especially existing ones that have sort of a couple of years ago. What they'll do oftentimes is they'll be like, okay, this AI thing seems to be real. It seems like we can add some...
we can add some speed, some advantage here. And so what we'll do is we'll have an AI crack team, a crack squad of AI folks. we'll put AI, you know, hey, this team over here is going to kind of redo the product using AI. This team over here is going to really focus on AI in terms of how it can help with go to market. then
Mostly the rest of folks will use AI, but it'll be sporadically. It'll be chat GPT. Maybe it'll help them, you know, with email writing or some other things, but it'll be very sporadic. But we have this crack team and they're really AI first. That strikes me as the less compelling way to do
Greg Gottesman (12:11)
I think AI native is every single person at the company is trying to use AI to augment themselves or to replace some of the functions that they're doing. And that means it starts from the top. you know, so many leaders feel like, well, of course everything should be changed. AI should replace all these functions, but not the things that I do. So, so to me, AI is
It's like saying I use software. I AI, I think needs to be integral to and a part of every single person's
Andy Sack (12:45)
I want to take this conversation in sort of two directions. The first one being, you qualify as middle-aged, you qualify as middle-aged, and you've been in tech your entire career. I want to talk to us about how your own usage of AI has changed your work.
Greg Gottesman (13:08)
I'm trying to see if I can have AI replace all the things that we do at Pioneer Square Labs. So we have a product called Lev. Lev does.
a lot of the things that we do go to market analysis, competitive analysis, product build, is trying to do all the things that we do. I think it's still human with AI augmentation,
Andy Sack (13:33)
Let's start with simple questions. What large language model do you use the most? And how often do you use it?
Greg Gottesman (13:39)
I use mostly chat GPT, but I mean, I use all of it.
I use it every day. have a browser. I like Comet. I also use the Chatroom Keepers. I'm trying it with different browsers. I'm trying to figure out, I mean, I think these browsers are still early because I think they're still not yet where it's doing the work for me. Some of the early versions of Comet where before ⁓ people started putting block,
Adam Brotman (13:55)
So I think that's a good thing to do. that's a good thing do. thing I that's good thing I think that's a
Greg Gottesman (14:08)
blockers in front of it where basically it would go and do the work. would go and actually say, Hey, I want a mulgatani for dinner tonight. would go figure out the recipe.
Adam Brotman (14:08)
thing to I a thing I that's good thing to to I that's a thing I that's a good I a I I
Greg Gottesman (14:19)
If you were already authenticated into Instacart, it would actually go and order it for you and have it show up at your door and pay for it. mean, that's where we're headed. think folks get our sort of want to take baby steps on it. But no, I use ChatGBT for
Adam Brotman (14:34)
that we do
to make sure we're just going to this for rest We are not going to be this for rest of year. We're be this for rest of the year. We're going to be rest the year. We're going to doing this for rest year. for rest of year. We're going to be doing this year. We're going to be for rest the year. We're year. We're going to doing this for of the year.
Greg Gottesman (14:36)
I mean, obviously most people are using AI summaries even if they're using Google for their searches, which is sad because a lot of our companies are getting just killed by the fact that AI summaries are now basically taking over what used to be SEO. that's a different question for a different time. But yeah, so I'm obviously using ⁓ ChatGBT for most of my searching. Hey, even today, this morning, my
wife's in a survivor pool
she's NFL survivor
Adam Brotman (15:04)
NFL, NFL Survivor Bowl. Yeah.
Andy Sack (15:04)
Survivor the TV show.
Greg Gottesman (15:08)
pool. And yeah, so I go and I asked Chachapita who are the best teams that, you know, that she should pick this week and it goes, it does the odds. I'm like, she's already has these three teams. I'm like, ⁓ here's the, you know, here's Shan, here's the one that you should, here's the teams you should think about picking. So I'm using it.
Adam Brotman (15:11)
Yeah, we heard about the demon, but, uh, I'm not sure if that's the word, but, um, I think the right I'm not sure if that's the right word, um, not
sure
Greg Gottesman (15:26)
you know, dozens of times a day. I'm still though, like we talked about before, I'm still human with AI sprinkled in. ⁓ Where I'd like to get is where AI does a lot of the kinds of things I do and I'm not there yet and nor are most people, but I'm trying, that's where it starts to get really interesting.
Andy Sack (15:35)
in the loop. Yeah,
Adam Brotman (15:38)
So, going to go ahead and move on to the next And I'm going start with the
question that's getting asked. And the question that's getting is, there a way to get a whole new system that's going to be more accessible?
Andy Sack (15:48)
Well, it's pretty interesting, Cuban, with AI sprinkled in. I mean, it's interesting as is, but I hear ⁓ you. Would you talk a little bit about how you've seen the startup ecosystem change
as a result of AI? Talk about AI innovation and given the pace of the technology development, how's that landscape and how's business itself changing?
Greg Gottesman (16:13)
Andy, you and I and Adam, you as well, both lived through, invested through, worked through the last big, I think, technology innovation, which was the internet. And I think there are a lot of parallels. I remember, and I know you guys remember, when...
people's, there was Amazon.bomb, the internet's not that big of a thing. It's not gonna change that much. It's sort of on the edge here. And of course, looking back, the internet has changed sort of the world more fundamentally than even the most aggressive prognosticators suggested it would. And yet,
Adam Brotman (16:57)
I The
Greg Gottesman (16:57)
% of startups, there were internet startups, you know, failed in some form or another. The vast majority of internet startups didn't make it. And that doesn't mean that the internet was overall a failure or wasn't the biggest thing that's happened, you know, before AI in our careers. It definitely was, but...
the individual companies themselves, maybe 99 is too much, 90 % of those companies didn't live up to what they hoped they would become. The same will happen with AI. Most of these startups, 90 % of these AI startups will not be as big as I think they had hoped.
But that doesn't mean that AI in and of itself isn't the biggest thing that's going to, know, biggest technology change that will happen in our lifetimes. I think it will. I think we'll look back in 20 years and think, well, AI was even bigger than we thought it was. How is that even possible? But I think that's the way we will
Andy Sack (18:01)
At Form 3, it's my first time sort of back in a startup since early 2000. And the way the game is played is very different. I see that. And I've also helped start other AI startups.
And the speed with which it to get the speed that it and ease with which it takes to build a product, validate that product, get to market is it's easier, faster. And yet getting attention is harder than ever. competitive motes, you know, sort of non-existent now. lot of what I used to teach at Techstars was about, you know,
product market fit and now product market fit feels like it's a moving stream. It was probably always a moving stream, but now it's like the water is running.
Greg Gottesman (18:56)
no, I mean, the benefit that you and I and Adam as well, having done this for many years, is,
vast majority of companies that we've all been involved with, very rarely, think, as you look back, I'm curious for your takes on
Adam Brotman (19:02)
you
here.
Greg Gottesman (19:11)
very rarely if you look back, is it
you fail because you couldn't build the product. It's almost always been distribution. It's almost always been, as you said, whether it's product market, it's almost always been cost effective distribution. I mean, I can count on one hand, I've been doing this for almost 30 years and one hand, the number of times I'm like, yeah, that failed because we couldn't build the product, the technology, we couldn't figure out the technology. I mean, that's where we spend a lot of our time.
Adam Brotman (19:40)
I'm
Greg Gottesman (19:40)
Ironically, you look back, I spend all this time on product, so much time on trying to build this darn thing. And so rarely is that why you fail. Almost always it's because you couldn't figure out
Adam Brotman (19:40)
to stop here. I'm going to stop there. I'm going to stop there. I'm going to I'm going stop there. I'm going there. I'm I'm stop there.
Greg Gottesman (19:54)
cost effective distribution. And in this new AI world, to your point, Andy, that has become even harder because building product has now become easier.
And so what that's led to is more competition. now we have, you know, we have startups and it used to be maybe there'd be three or four companies would pop up. Now it's 10 or 15 companies will pop up that are competing with you.
Adam Brotman (20:17)
And we have a couple of
things
Greg Gottesman (20:21)
And distribution becomes harder, more costly. By the way, Google and Facebook have made it almost impossible to get cost effective distribution on their platforms. And so now you're trying to figure out creative.
Adam Brotman (20:21)
talk about. Just a brief bit. talk about. We've a lot to We've lot of things to talk about. We've got a
Greg Gottesman (20:35)
distribution hacks and other means. So it's always been about distribution and it's even more so about figuring out cost-effective distribution.
Adam Brotman (20:35)
a lot things to talk We've a of about. We've got We've got lot of about.
Greg Gottesman (20:44)
And I think that goes for large companies and small companies as well. That will be the hard part going forward will be how do I get this in customers' hands? And the most interesting and hardest questions, I think, for us starting companies or even advising companies.
Adam Brotman (20:52)
that we're to be able to
Greg Gottesman (21:00)
is around how do I, again, how do I cost effectively go and get customers in a world where
the cost of building a product was quickly going to zero.
Adam Brotman (21:09)
last question, Greg, kind of touching on both the major topics we've talked about, you know, what, you know, what is an AI native company versus a AI crack team company? And, sort of, you know, where, where you sort of think, see things going, but I want to come back to right now today, which is talking about stream because technology is improving so quickly.
And I'll say Andy and I definitely see the world very similarly to how you explained it on this podcast. we're like, we're very, some pot of code to how you're thinking about things. And I have a question for you though, which is, are you, when you look at today's technology, you think about where, you know, I'd like it to, you know, you're, saying, I want to see if it can replace me, if it can replace what we do at Miner Square labs. I think in a couple of years, it's going to go to, as you put it, you know,
AI was human sprinkled in versus the other way around, which is really, I think is really. Precious in the sense that it's going to be us more and more just like monitoring and managing and overseeing these AIs that are doing a lot of the work. But if you just go to today's technology, Greg, do you, do you feel like it's already capable of that? Or do you feel like the technology needs to improve? Or is it more of us catching up to what's already been built to do what you just said? I'm curious to your thoughts.
Greg Gottesman (22:32)
both. So I don't think that technology is there. By the way, today is the worst AI will ever be.
Andy Sack (22:40)
I heard that yesterday.
Greg Gottesman (22:41)
Yeah, and was yesterday, it was worse than it is today. So I think it's moving. The interesting thing is there's hundreds of billions of dollars being invested in this thing. So it is moving at a pace and speed that is unlike other technological innovations over time. There's just so much investment in it.
Adam Brotman (22:45)
Yeah.
Greg Gottesman (23:05)
But so I don't think we're ready yet as humans to take full advantage of it. I think there's all kinds of psychic and psychological, I guess those are the same word, There's all kinds of issues beyond just the actual work itself that caused friction, right? So I think humans aren't yet ready to fully give up.
autonomy and I don't think the technology is there yet, but I think it will be over time. And I think it'll be interesting to see how in various industries, at various size companies, how this all, because I think it will be different. I don't think it's going to be one size fits all. So I think some industries will adopt it faster.
⁓ startups will adopt it faster, technology companies will adopt it faster than say governments. I just think there will be all kinds of different paces of movement toward this. But I think the inevitably we will move towards where machines do what machines do best and humans do what humans do best. That's the, over the next 50 years is sort of will be the change of our time I think is that we start to move towards.
Adam Brotman (24:00)
that's but I think it's great that we're this for the kids or the kids who not in the school for the kids. And think that for the next years, we're to be for our kids. But I that's a huge challenge.
Greg Gottesman (24:17)
towards that reality and companies and people that don't embrace that, I think will fall behind
Adam Brotman (24:18)
We're not going to have a company that can keep them on the job. We're going to have to have a company that can them on the job. And that's what we're going
Greg Gottesman (24:26)
or not be able to compete as well with companies and people that do.
Adam Brotman (24:31)
Greg, when you talk today to a non startup CEO, when you talk to a lot, because you said that's part of what FinderSquare Labs does, and you're also just part of the business community like we are. So when you're talking to a non startup established company CEO, medium to huge size, what percentage do you think understand what we've been talking about on this call today?
Greg Gottesman (24:56)
At a high level, think most people that run those size companies are very smart and very practical, much more practical than all of us on the phone too. mean, like there's all kinds of things about leading a company of that size that, you know, that's so much harder than leading a startup, you know, and startups are harder for different reasons, right? But I think they get it, but I also think they are trying to deal with the practical realities of getting
Adam Brotman (25:14)
.
Mm-hmm.
Greg Gottesman (25:24)
of their own businesses and getting product out. And so you go and say, hey, everything's changing with AI. They're like, yeah, but I've got, you know, I've got payroll to make. I've got, you know, I've got customers that are demanding, you know, certain things from me and I've got to go meet those demands. And so I don't have time in a way to really address these issues. So I think they get it at a high level, but I think they also have, you know, other
I would say urgent matters on hand. And what I would suggest to them is, and this is why they hire you, I would imagine, is you help them focus on the important, not the urgent. It's like, you because I think startups will, ⁓ sorry, think AI will happen. don't think it's, but I think it's going to happen over the next handful of years for most of these companies. I think they have, and so it's not, I think it's urgent,
Adam Brotman (26:04)
Thank
Greg Gottesman (26:18)
that they start thinking about it and trying to prioritize how they're going to change and become, as you said, a more AI native. But they have to do it in a way that meets the realities of their business. And that's really hard. But I think most of them get it. But I think they also aren't going to just say, hey, let's just get rid of all my employees and let's just go AI everything. And that wouldn't be smart or practical. And so, yeah.
Adam Brotman (26:28)
They're not being followed for years. They're being for They're being They're not for years. not being for years. They're being They're not being for They're not years. They're not They're
Yeah, that's great.
Andy Sack (26:49)
⁓ So Adam, we've been chatting for a little bit with Greg. What are your big takeaways
that you want to highlight for the audience?
Adam Brotman (26:58)
Well, I mean, first of all, this is a little off script, but I it's really great. Great to see you. mean, I know we've go way back and I, and I just, I've always admired the way that you think about technology and business and the intersection. And, um, it was just really cool to have you on this, on the pod. I mean, I don't say that for a lot of our guests. That's not it. Yeah, that's not, that's not, I mean that like you're.
Andy Sack (27:21)
I'll echo that sentiment.
Adam Brotman (27:27)
you have this amazing way of thinking about and translating things. And I really appreciate that. And on this topic, Andy and I are living in this bubble, thinking really hard about what is gonna happen with business and enterprise and brand and AI. the fact that you went right to, I think the heart of it, which is that we are,
we are going to see a transformation of the future of work. people tend to focus on the, because that's their used to AI has been around for 50 years. They tend to focus on the term has been anyways, they're used to like, Oh AI, must be some like predictive model that's going to help you with analytics or there's going to be some chat bot. They, they, they go to some specific application in their mind. And then a lot of, a of business leaders even do that. You went to.
a more fundamental place in our conversation today about the ability for this technology to be as transformative or more transformative than the internet. And that what that means to the way people work. And you went right to like, I'm trying to like replace Andy's question. And you answered it by saying, I'm using it dozens of times a day. And I'm actually trying to figure out when and how it could be better than me at my job and my co-founder's job. And I just thought that that was.
really interesting that topic. And by the way, the other thing I'll say, the second observation, and I'll turn it back to Andy for yours is you're exactly right. That like, if you delegate AI as a leader, as a CEO in particular to like some team and that they're going to figure it out. And it's like, not you as a leader, not the entire company, not transforming the way you guys all work over time, but it's some other group that's going to figure it out. We see that also as a mistake. Now, would there be a
A lot of people will delegate it to their IT department, their technology group, and they treat it like it's a tech implementation as opposed to a changing the way you fundamentally work. Greg, when you said, you know, we're humans with AI sprinkled in and we're going to move to AI with humans sprinkled in, I thought that was great. And it really gets to that point. So Andy, what are your thoughts?
Andy Sack (29:39)
Yeah, I was my, I I love the humans with AI sprinkled versus AI with humans sprinkled. So I loved also thought that Greg, you know, like I share.
Companies don't fail because of product development, and AI makes product development easier. It makes go to market easier. I thought that your comment about cost-effective distribution at the essence of the startup conundrum, and that it's actually harder today than it was 10 years ago, than it was 20 years ago, to get cost-effective distribution, and that that's where entrepreneurs should innovate, I think, is spot on.
Yeah, and I just echo Adam's sentiment. It's been a delight to have you on, to hear your thoughts on not just AI First, but AI Native, because I actually think you're right about that too, this idea of AI Native. We haven't actually seen it yet.
We're more than a year away from that. think that that's true also. So I really loved the conversation. was a delight having you on. I hope the audience enjoyed it. So thanks for your time, Greg. And thanks for all the people that are listening to AI First with Adam and Andy. For more resources on how to become AI First, you can visit our website, form3.com.
download case studies, research briefing, and executive summaries, as well as join our email list. We also invite you to connect and join our AI First community, a curated hub and network for leaders, turning AI hype into action. We truly believe you can't over invest in Onward.