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Away We Go We Go follows the journey of Sophie & Jordan Epton, an American couple who moved to France with their 10-month old twins, and the crazy adventure that follows. We dive deep into what it's really like moving and living abroad as expats, interview others who have taken the road less traveled, provide travel tips, discuss how you can do hard things to change your own life, and everything in between.
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[00:00:00] A year and a half ago, we risked it all and moved to France. We'll be sharing about our life abroad, how people could do hard things to transform their own lives and everything in between. This is Sophie and Jordan Epton. Welcome to The Away we Go. We go podcast.
[00:01:00] [00:02:00] Okay, Amanda, I cannot even tell you how excited I am to be sitting down with you right now. I am such a believer in women doing things for themselves and like being independent in the world, and you have created the most amazing community that is really having. An impact on the world. Like I, I look at you and I'm like, you are such an inspiration.
I'm so happy to have you on the podcast today. Oh, that's so sweet. Well, I'm really happy to be here, Sophie. I think this is gonna be a fun chat. I know. I can't wait. Let's, let's just get right into it. So you have built a network, a community with the solo female traveler network. That now has over 600,000 women like that is I have, I literally have goosebumps talking about that.
So what was the inspiration to start this movement? And, I mean, did you ever envision it getting this big? [00:03:00] I definitely didn't envision it getting this big because I didn't really envision it getting anything. I didn't have any visions. I started it because I was traveling solo for a long time.
And I loved it and I was doing it long haul, like years. I had been doing it for, for a few years at this time, and you know. Sometimes bad things happen and it's not usually catastrophic. It's not usually, you know, gonna ruin your life and it never did for me. But sometimes bad things happen. And my last straw was when I was in this very touristy town and I got robbed.
Somebody broke into my room and stole everything. And I had had like my new, my new backpacker gear, right? Like all this amazing equipment I had just finished my dive master, all my dive gear, my computer, everything gone. No. [00:04:00] So when that happened, I just remember standing in the street thinking like, what do I do?
Where do I go? Yeah. And so long story short, as soon as I replaced my computer, I started a Facebook group and it was for my solo female travel friends to invite their friends so that we could just sort of be a resource for each other, not only through emergencies and bad times, but to talk about really cool things that we've done and to inspire other women to say yes and take the, take the risk, and.
To just, yeah, to create a network for each other that, that is like the wildest story. But I always feel like when people create amazing things, it's because they've gone through something and it's, you've taken that pain essentially and turned it into a positive, so. That's, yeah. That's really cool. So the other thing that you are a [00:05:00] huge part of is that you're also a TEDx speaker.
Mm-hmm. And you discuss a lot how women build deeper connections through shared firsts. So what exactly are shared firsts for, you know, listeners that don't know, and why are they so powerful? The idea of shared firsts comes directly from my travel experience, especially my solo travel. My group tour Travel, so Solo Female Traveler Network is a community.
We also sell group tours for women. And so I've gone on so many of these trips, met so many women on tour, and I've seen and experienced time and again how fast friendships form on these trips. Yes, when you're traveling solo, when you're traveling in this kind of container of like-minded women, like on our tours and.
When you're doing something brand new with other people, you're already creating this core [00:06:00] memory, right? Like you're doing something you dreamed of, you're doing something maybe you never even knew was possible, and you're doing it alongside these other people, navigating it, feeling the same things. Just sharing this incredible first, and I've seen again and again how fast that bonds people.
And so the whole idea of my TEDx talk is to take that and apply it into our everyday lives as a way to connect faster, not only on when we travel, but you know, most of our lives for most of us. Are not on the road, they're at home. True. So how can we create these great relationships and these faster connections with people, and it's, in my opinion, through shared firsts.
Not another coffee date, not another conversation about the weather, but going, doing something cool. And so that's what it's about. That is so amazing because even it's like [00:07:00] when you have been, for instance, like my husband and I have been together for 16 years. It's like when we do something, you're right, like a shared first.
It's the best and you already feel so much more connected. Not to mention if you don't know someone, that is, that's really cool. I've like never heard someone talk about it like this way and it's, it's brilliant. So how can someone intentionally. Like create shared first in their own lives, you know, in kind of in order to build community as an adult.
'cause it is, it's really hard to do it the older you get. Yeah. I think the first thing is having the courage to just go first. Make the invitation, ask the question, be like kids at recess, right? When you're like. I like your shoes. Let's be friends. You know? And the adult version might be, oh, that's a cool thing that you've done.
Or, we both love pottery or whatever. Let's go do this thing together. Everyone wants to feel liked [00:08:00] and that people wanna hang out with them. So let people know that you're interested in hanging out with them. That's step one. Just go first. And step two is to. Create an environment that's a little bit different.
It doesn't have to be bungee jumping. It can be, but it doesn't have to be. Yeah, it doesn't have to be a big trip somewhere. But no matter where you live, you can find a pocket or an area or a restaurant or an experience that you probably haven't done before. So that's one way, just finding something simple that you haven't done before or haven't tasted before or whatever.
You can also create them at home. You can have like a, like a candle painting night, you know, those anthropology style candles with a, you can paint that yourself. Just go buy some cheap paint and some candles and, and sit around and eat snacks and. Paint some candles that's memorable and you have this space [00:09:00] between each other to to talk about things, talk about things that matter.
What are your dreams? What are you excited about? Go as far as getting conversation starter cards. Those are super fun. Like fun little game to spark conversation. You can have a board game night, you can. Um, go plan your own.
This is my favorite example. It was in my TEDx talk too, but plan your own mini food tour together, even if it's a neighborhood that you've been to a hundred times. I love that. That's so, yeah, that's the best. There's so many things that you can do, and soon there will be a long list of ideas on my website that you can implement no matter where you live.
Super cool. Ugh. Yeah. This is like, I feel like. Anyone who's listening right now is already making a mental list now of like what they can do in the next week and like you're already, you're already inspiring that. That's so great. Kind of getting back to solo travel and especially, you know, female solo [00:10:00] travel like we hear all the time that it really is life changing, but what do you think are the reasons that it really changes you when you do solo travel?
I think that it teaches you exactly how capable you are, how strong you are. Mm-hmm. How resilient you are, and it forces you to face anything that's going on in your life. When you're at home. If you're feeling, you know, an extreme amount of misdirection, you don't, maybe you don't know what's going on in your career, you don't know what to do with your life next, or if you're feeling a lot of loneliness, if you're feeling you can't.
Run away from that. You it. What travel does is it makes you confront them without the distractions that you have at home. So when you're wandering through Tokyo, let's say, and you are surrounded by all these beautiful lights and all these things. What's gonna come up into your mind? All the things that you feel at home are gonna come up for you and you'll face them [00:11:00] and you'll face them with a much bigger perspective than when you're at home.
I personally traveled, I, my biggest travel when I bought the one-way ticket and left was right after my mom died. So I was dealing with a tremendous amount of grief. Yes. And travel. I didn't solve my problems and at all, but I was doing, I was fulfilling some of my lifelong dreams while deeply grieving my mom, and I don't know how I would've gotten through that first period of grief without being on the road.
So, yeah, I think that, I think that that's really the core of why solo travel is so transformational. Yeah, some of the listeners will know this, but essentially when I was 20, I was in a really bad relationship and I ended up studying abroad in [00:12:00] Florence, Italy. And like, not only did I break up with him, but like my world completely like exploded in the best way.
And it was the, it was the greatest thing I could have ever done for myself. 'cause I came away from that and I was like, I can do anything now. Mm-hmm. You know, it's just, it gives you that, yeah. That sense of self-confidence and Yeah. Just like clarity, because you're just seeing beautiful things. You're in your mind and Yeah.
Yeah. You get to know yourself in a way that you didn't even know is possible. Absolutely. Absolutely. So running this incredible global travel company, what do you think that's also taught you about just courage? When I started this company, it's almost like it started because I had no choice. Mm-hmm. And it wasn't. Like I was trapped. It was that every single thing in the beginning lined up so that I really had no better option [00:13:00] than to start this company. And of course it was scary, but everything pointed to me doing this.
It was, it would be almost stupid not to just give it a try. Yeah. So. I do remember very, very early on when we had about 65,000 followers or members of our community at that time, and I sat with a, I sat with, I was living in Australia at the time, and I sat with this girl, this woman who I knew who had started a company very, very, very different than this.
And she said, Amanda. Just do it. Just do it. Here. Here. Let's talk about some of the first steps together. Like what are you waiting for? And one of the things I think about a lot is that conversation. Mm-hmm. Because another woman who believed in me, who was telling me, you got this, [00:14:00] you've built this. It is time now, like was some of the most important inspiration and support that I've ever had.
And so I believe that women, when women support each other in that way, yes, we can literally do anything, and sometimes all it takes is another woman to believe in you. So. When I am struggling with a decision with this company, or I'm struggling if I'm having a hard time, you know, COVID wasn't, wasn't fun.
Um, as an example. Yeah, I remember that conversation and I try to be that person for myself because life is short, right? Like, what's the point in saying no and staying stuck. And keeping the status quo when the world is literally full of opportunity as we see when we travel. I love that.
And then, you know, really thinking about [00:15:00] growing this mission from zero to 600,000, you know, did you ever have those? Moments of doubt. I'm sure you did, because that's entrepreneurial life. But what, what do you think is the best advice for keeping you going? Hyper focus. In the beginning when I had a tour and I wanted to sell it, there was nothing else I did except try to get people on that tour.
Nothing else. I wasn't distracted by a new destination. I wasn't distracted by. I don't know, the weather being beautiful or my friends making plans or how, like improving the website colors, like Yeah, hyper focus I think is so important and for me it's something that becomes easier and easier to lose.
Like the, the longer I do this actually, because there are so many things [00:16:00] pulling my attention in different directions at all times, but. Knowing what's the most important. Mm-hmm. And staying hyper fixated on it until it's done, I think is one of the most boring pieces of advice. But also, but true. But very true.
Yeah. Absolutely. No, I think it's, I think the way that you grow a company. Yeah, it's just like all the small, mundane things you're doing in the background that no one sees, but it's like, it's exponentially growing. Right. So, yeah. Yeah. I mean, you, you've clearly done a lot in the background to make this what it is today.
So, you know, what do you think when you've been building this company you've learned about it truly takes to create a safe space for women? To be honest, the safe spaces on our tours, sure we facilitate them, but they're created by the women who come. And I think our part in that is setting up the [00:17:00] expectation before anybody meets each other.
I think in our branding, I hope in our branding and our website and our philosophy and our values, we make it really clear who we're for and what kind of. What kind of environment are trips embody, and I think when you set that up, you're just sort of setting up women to come with the right expectation, with the right attitude and, and it works.
So, yeah. Do you think that, you know, women maybe have any trepidation before their first solo trip? Or what do you think is the, you know, maybe the biggest misconception that women may have? I think. There are of course, I think, I think everybody has a hesitation and some misconceptions about solo travel, whether it's like true solo travel when you're going somewhere by totally by yourself or whether you're coming solo on [00:18:00] like one of our tours.
I think that safety is always one of the first questions people ask and I, and I think that safety is actually quite a big misconception. I am not one to dismiss safety concerns at all, but I do think that we tend to view them as either black or white. Safe, unsafe. Yeah. But we don't take into account the skill level that is required to keep yourself safe.
Mm-hmm. So you can, you can be unsafe in a place like, I don't know, I'm trying to think of like the really safe places like Japan or. Switzerland. I don't know. Yeah. Um, if you have no skill, it, you know. Yeah. Like if you are carrying a fanny pack wide open and your cash is like spilling out, like okay. Um, that's an extreme example.
But I do think though, that knowing how to choose accommodation in a safe area, knowing [00:19:00] how to be, be aware of your surroundings, knowing how to. Trust your gut. Mm-hmm. These are, these are the types of skills that you learn more and more as you travel solo. So that's one of the misconceptions. I think. It's not about a place being safe or unsafe, it's also about your skill level and being really honest about what that is and learning how to build it so that you can travel somewhere a little bit.
You know, I'm using air quotes less safe, um, and, and still be. Okay. So. I've never heard someone explain it like that, but that absolutely clicked for me because it is, it's about, yeah, like. What are you doing? Like, I mean, people on the trains here in France, they get ripped off all the time, but it's like, well, what was happening?
Yeah, your, you took a nap and your phone was laying out on the tray table. You know? So it's just, yeah, just being really aware and, yeah, making, making those decisions. I wanted to talk more about the [00:20:00] actual trips and like what they look like and like what if you're gonna go on them, like how do you build these out and what do women experience on these trips?
I build them based on what I wanna do. Yeah. Based on what I've done. So a lot of our, all of our trips are designed by, by me, but, and also by our local team. So. The creation of a tour usually happens when I'm in the country with our local team. Mm-hmm. Sometimes it happens before I arrive. We plan it out and then I go and we try different things, but every itinerary is hand chosen by me, which.
You know, is a little scary to say just because, you know, if you don't like it, then there's only me to come to. Yeah. But, um, but it's true, like everything, it's this really started by contacts that I made when I was traveling. Mm-hmm. And. You know when [00:21:00] we go into, we go into a lot of local women's homes invited for dinner or, or they bring us into their art studios and they teach us their craft.
And these aren't necess. Sometimes they are, but they are not necessarily. Tourist experiences. They're literally someone we know who's invited us because we asked. And so, um, it's a really intimate look into the culture and the, the society of women in, in these countries. Another really big part of our trips are the women who come, the relationships that they form together. And that's not necessarily something that I expected when I started this company. Like sure, I thought it would happen because that's how I experienced travel. Like meeting really cool fellow solo female travelers and you bond really quickly and you do all this fun stuff.
But I didn't really know if it would be the same in this context. It is, in fact, it's way more powerful [00:22:00] because when you're traveling solo, you may meet someone that you really, really love and you'll spend, you know, maybe two nights together or something in this while you're passing through this place, and then you go your separate ways.
But in this case, you're with the same women for a approximately 12 days and you build, wow, that's amazing. You build some of the most powerful relationships. I mean, I've built some of the most powerful relationships of my life with my own travelers on these tours. And I see them traveling together to other places.
I see them come, like planning to come on another Sophie tour together and be roommates. And every year we have at least one tour of sort of this core group of repeat travelers who know each other. Who love each other and always wanna travel together and they come again and again. So it's, the community's a really powerful factor.
I love that. So have you [00:23:00] ever seen a woman on one of your trips, like completely reinvent themselves, like have an awakening where it's like changed their lives forever? Yes. I've, I have a lot of examples of this, but my, the first one that comes to mind. Is one of our travelers who's actually been on the most, um, number of trips with us, more than anyone.
Oh, wow. Um, and she told me that when she started, she saw us online and she really wanted to travel, but she just didn't wanna go all by herself, and she just didn't yet have the confidence. So she decided to come with us. And her first trip with us was to Bali. And, um, had a, she had a great time. So then she came back to on our Egypt trip, and she loved it so much.
She came on the Egypt trip again and um, I think she's been on 11 trips now. Wow. And yeah. And she told me once that Sophie completely changed her life, it taught her that she can do it. [00:24:00] It taught her these skills, these travel skills that she didn't know she didn't have. And now she travels with us, but she also travels by herself all the time and she's, yeah.
So that's, I mean, nothing can be more, mean more to me than that kind of feedback, because that's what this is about. I don't care if someone comes on one trip with us and then never travels with us again because they figure it out that they can do it on their own. Cool. Like, go girl. Like that's, that's for, so yeah, whether you're a brand new traveler or you've been all over the world, like you will find something new.
You will experience something new on these trips. So cool. I mean that if that's not an advertisement by the way, for like how powerful it truly, I mean that just says it in itself. So especially thinking about the world that we live in today, why do you [00:25:00] think that women only spaces matter? I mean, I obviously they matter, but in your words, like why did they matter?
I get asked this all the time and I always answer differently 'cause there's so many reasons. True, there's so many reasons. Like very true. I think that for many, many, many years, we as women have been taught that we're.
Competition. Mm-hmm. Where we're, we've seen, you know, we're taught to criticize the way a woman looks. Is she pretty enough? Is she skinny enough? We're taught to criticize her career. Is she successful enough? Is she make enough money? I mean, the standards for women are so stupid, high and completely unattainable.
Mm-hmm. Yet we're taught to criticize each other and to be competitive of each other. And. It's only been in recent years [00:26:00] that, I mean, I would even venture to say that we're the first generation who have started to decondition that out of ourselves. Yeah. And so I think that women only spaces allow us to fully be ourselves.
We're allowed to encourage an environment of support, and love and empowerment and not competition among people who understand.
Why, like we don't have to explain to each other why we need to support one another. And there's so much of that that we need to explain to men because they haven't experienced it. They don't, we've never thought about it. They don't get it. Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. So, and I think it's really important that some of our spaces in our lives are purely for each other.
You know what has really surprised you the most about running a women only global company? I think what surprised me the most about running a women only global company [00:27:00] is how unbelievably supportive women can be of one another.
Mm-hmm. And I'll give you, I'll give you one short story as an example. Love it. In our Facebook group, this was years ago now, but it's one of my favorite stories. We had a woman post in the group and she said. I met this guy on my travels. He became my boyfriend. We traveled around together, everything was great.
And then I went to his home country and then things changed and he turned abusive. And right now I am, I've locked my myself in the bathroom of his apartment and. I've called the police multiple times and they won't come. What do I do? I'm afraid to leave this bathroom. Ugh, horrible situation. What happened was she got thousands of comments.
Thousand, like so [00:28:00] many direct messages, women flocked to this, to her aid. And what ended up happening was the police in the city got so many phone calls from people abroad calling on her behalf, demanding that they go and help this girl. And finally, the police did come. And they got her out of the bathroom safely and when she came out of the building, there was a Facebook group member who lived in that city who saw her post and went to help her communicate with the police, get her to the airport and get her home.
Wow. So. I knew that when I started this community, we would help each other with, what do I wear when I go to Egypt? What should I do in fz, in Morocco? Like I knew those questions would be answered well, and I knew that women would give each other advice in tough times. But what I didn't know is how fiercely [00:29:00] women would show up and support each other, especially in tough times.
So that kind of love and support that we have for one another is evident in, in those really obvious times, like the story I just told. But it's also in the day to day of our tours, women. Needing to go to a pharmacy in the middle of the night and having suddenly 12 other people who are willing to walk with her and amazing.
And just the, this undying fierce support of one another is, I wouldn't say totally surprising, but it's something I just didn't expect to this level. I mean, that is, that story is incredible and like that, yeah, it just shows the power of. Community. Right. And, and like what you've created and
in all women's spaces, it's like we want to protect one another, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, for the woman who is listening, who wants to book a solo [00:30:00] trip, maybe with you, maybe by herself, but is still has, you know, some trepidation, what do you think are the first three practical steps that you can give?
Honestly, I have one. Just go like, okay, I love it. I mean, you know, I don't need to tell you. I'm talking to this, this woman. I don't need to tell you the practical steps. You know how to book a flight. You know how to choose a destination. You know how to get on booking.com or Airbnb or what, or whatever you wanna use to book your accommodation.
You, you know how to get on my website? Well, you will. At least you'll know how to get on my website and choose a, a tour and book it. You know how to do these logistical things. These are easy to figure out. What's not so easy to do is to decide that you're going to effing do it, so, mm-hmm. Go, go book it.
Make that first small commitment, whether it's your flight booking, [00:31:00] your spot on, a tour, booking an Airbnb, even book an Airbnb with free cancellation, just to like, feel like you've done something toward your dream. Yeah. And, and do it. That's really, that's really it. Advice. Advice. And then what do you think are, 'cause you know you've lived and traveled all over the world.
What destinations do you think are kind of unexpectedly amazing? For a solo female traveler that you've experienced? Oh, I have so many of these. Oh, let's go. Okay. Unexpectedly amazing would be one of them I would say is Mongolia. Ooh. It's, it's not really on everybody's bucket list, but I really think it should be like, I think it is magical.
Beautiful. The people are kind, gentle. It has these like really cool, underrated cultural. Experiences, well to us, their culture experiences to them, it's just like their normal life every day. Yeah. [00:32:00] Yeah. For, you know, we go, we have a Mongolia tour and we go see the Golden Eagle Festival, which is one of the coolest things I've ever witnessed.
And it's a country that is, it is difficult to navigate. I'll say that it's quite difficult to, to get around. Mm-hmm. But once you're there and you figure that out, or if you come with, you know, on a trip like ours. It's safe. The people are sweet. It's like the city is is not chaotic. Mm-hmm.
It's fun, it's beautiful. It's like the nature wildlife, the, it's just such a cool place. So that's one unexpected great place, I think for a solo female traveler. I wanna say Ecuador because I think it's one of the most underrated countries in the world.
However, maybe not the best if you're like a first time solo traveler. Sure. Um, unless you come on a trip like ours where we take care of everything, but it is a little bit less safe, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, [00:33:00] but the Galapagos is stunning and it's a great place to go by yourself. I'd say. Turkey is definitely really popular these days and for really good reason.
Yeah, I think Turkey is a lot safer and less intimidating than people think it is sometimes and it's beautiful and the food is amazing. Yes. Anyway, I could go on and on, but those are, those are some of the ones that pop into mind. I love that. Okay, I'm gonna do a few rapid fire questions for you to kind of close this out.
So. When you are flying, do you prefer a window or an aisle seat. And why? Window seat because I like to look out the window and I don't like it when people bump into me in the aisle. Same I am. Um, I've traveled so much, but I have like still a fear of turbulence or it's just this very uncomfortable for me.
So if I can just look out the window, I feel better. So that's totally the thing. Um, what was your first [00:34:00] solo trip location that you took? It was Israel. Israel, yeah. Yeah. What was a country that surprised you? I mean, besides obviously the ones you've already talked about, what's a country that's really surprised you with how cool it was?
I'm gonna say Cuba. Hmm. Yeah. I loved, loved Cuba. I've been there a few times now. Never disappoints, very untouched by American corporations. No, no. Starbucks or McDonald's over there. Yes. Very authentic. Lots of home stays and people are just really nice and. Yeah, love Cuba. And then what is the most inspiring country that you've ever visited or countries?
India. Mm, yeah. India was the most transformational, shocking, extreme, surprising [00:35:00] destinations for me. Talk to me for just a second about that. I know this is rapid fire, but I think people feel one way or another about visiting India, and so what do you think is like the real, but also the beauty of visiting that place?
India is tough and I am not gonna sugarcoat it. Like sometimes people get on me about saying that about a destination, but I don't care who you are, India is not the easiest place to travel. Mm-hmm. But I believe that for whatever extreme thing you experience, whether it is. Extreme crowds or extreme smells or poverty or, you know, sweatshops are just right there in front of you, not trying to hide.
Or extreme pollution, whatever the extreme negative side that you experience, you're, I promise you, if you're open to it, you're going to experience the same extreme on the opposite [00:36:00] side. Mm-hmm. You'll see the most beautiful landscape of your life. You'll see the most beautiful architecture you'll experience people in their most.
Pure, genuine kind ways. I mean, people who have nothing and are deeply spiritual people who have nothing and who will give it to you. People who dedicate their lives to, to a cause and not themselves. Mm-hmm. Um. The food is so amazing, like you'll eat some of the best food of your life. I mean, this is a country of extremes, and I believe, don't come for me.
But I believe that people who go to India and leave saying, oh, I hated it, it was terrible. Leave saying that because they were never really open to it, or they're, you know, they, they only saw the bad stuff and they never allowed themselves to appreciate the good stuff. Yeah, that's, no, that's [00:37:00] great. 'cause I've always been on the fence about it, but there's, I'm like at the same, I'm like, I've always wanted to go to JA four, like so much.
So I think you just inspired me to put that on my list a little bit higher. I think you should go. Yep. So on that note, I want you to tell the audience all about you, where they can find you, tell us all the things. Yeah, so you can find us in a lot of places. Our website is the solo female traveler network.com or.
Sophie Travel, SOFE travel.com for short. You can find us on Instagram. Solo female Travel is our handle. Do have a free quiz, no email required on our website, just like a fun cosmos style quiz, uh, where you should travel next so you can love. That's fun. [00:38:00] And yeah, we have some amazing destinations this year and we'd love to travel with you.
Yes. Tell us really quick, where are you going because I, I wanted to ask you that. Yeah. We are going lots of places. We are going to Japan, Ecuador. We have a new Uganda trip. We have a Morocco, Egypt, Kyrgyzstan, Mongolia, Paulen, Bhutan, Uzbekistan. We go to Romania for Halloween party in Drake's Castle. Fun, Turkey, Cuba.
Yeah. Lots of different options. This is, I mean, you have created something that is so special and it has been such a pleasure truly to sit down, to hear about your story and honestly to gather. So many pieces of wisdom, like I'm like, I could see why you're a text speaker, because I feel like you've introduced so many things that just hit the nail on the head of like, yeah, like just [00:39:00] inspiring.
So it's been a wonderful conversation. Thank you so much for your time. Yeah, this is really fun. Thanks for having me, Sophie. Thank you. And we will see everyone next week. Bye. Bye.