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The Moonshots Podcast goes behind the scenes of the world's greatest superstars, thinkers and entrepreneurs to discover the secrets to their success. We deconstruct their success from mindset to daily habits so that we can apply it to our lives. Join us as we 'learn out loud' from Elon Musk, Brene Brown to emerging talents like David Goggins.
00:00:04:25 - 00:00:42:09
Unknown
Hello and welcome to the Moon Shots Podcast Episode 237. I'm your co-host, Mike Parsons. And as always, I'm joined by the man himself, Mr. Mike Ison, trailing. Good morning, Mike. Hey, good morning, Mike. Good morning, Members, listeners, viewers and Moonshots family members. Boy, Mike, maybe I say this every time, but I really, really mean it this time. We have in store for us and not only crucial conversation, but a very valuable and essential conversation for insight for us in store today, don't we?
00:00:42:11 - 00:01:12:25
Unknown
We certainly do. It's it's a conversation worth having. And it's really been this whole series, hasn't it? What we've really kind of been able to do together is work on being aware of emotions that much like in our search for happiness that we discovered in our series with all those amazing authors on The Art of Happiness. We learned that emotional intelligence is something you can work on, and it has a huge effect on your professional and personal lives.
00:01:13:01 - 00:01:40:25
Unknown
And then we went to one of our absolute superstars, Brené Brown. And the act of being vulnerable truly ends up being the greatest courage that you can have, the greatest form of leadership that they can have. So now that we've got the emotional intelligence and the vulnerability, we're ready to have those crucial conversations. I'm so excited to wrap up this series with what I think is going to be another powerhouse of a book to study, to share and learn together.
00:01:41:01 - 00:02:05:22
Unknown
Yeah, I think you're right. I mean, might if you and I on getting our members, listeners and viewers excited. There's a great line from the foreword for the book, which is written by none other than Stephen Covey, who obviously did Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. He says that crucial conversations draws our attention to those defining moments that literally shape our lives, relationships and our world.
00:02:05:24 - 00:02:32:08
Unknown
So conversations again, Mike, maybe we've said this a few times within our series and relationships, but this concept around how you strategize in approach conversations is something that, again, I don't think I ever really got the memo on when I was growing up. And instead it's like we spend our whole life on this show picking up all the things that we never got taught at school and university right?
00:02:32:09 - 00:03:00:08
Unknown
Like all these things, like crucial conversations. That's it. But there's so much value that I think we can unlock within this book that helps us all really be able to, again, like you said, with the Happiness Series, learn that it is something that can be controlled by us as long as we take that ownership. Yeah, and I think it all starts with just getting into the book and understanding, you know, exactly what is what is this and how do we do it better.
00:03:00:12 - 00:03:24:23
Unknown
Yeah. And what I proposed to to you, our members, viewers and listeners, that if you are seeing sort of a gap in the way you work with others, if you feel that you know how we attempted to think, hey, I'm working real hard here, but I'm not really getting from my peers, colleagues, friends, partners what I need. I thought we were working on this, but I didn't get it.
00:03:24:25 - 00:03:59:08
Unknown
If you have any of these missing pieces in your collaboration, then this book and this episode, The Moonshots podcast, is for you, because invariably we have this illusion that communication, that conversation actually transpired. We have this fake illusion that we're all on the same page. And the reality is we have to fill that gap constantly. We have to keep on talking, keep on connecting, keep on communicating so that we are always on the same page that we don't become adrift.
00:03:59:10 - 00:04:27:14
Unknown
So if you experience any of those challenges in working with others, living with others, crucial conversations in this episode is for you. Mark, I'm ready. Let's jump in. Look, as you said, my crucial conversations can happen anytime, anywhere around the globe to any of us. So why don't we hear from one of the authors, Joseph Cranny, who's going to kick off the show by breaking down a great example of what a crucial conversation might actually entail?
00:04:27:16 - 00:04:52:23
Unknown
How can you create safety? Let me just share one life saving experience that I had to illustrate this point and conclusion. I found myself a few years back in an airport in Bangladesh. I just finished a week's worth of work and I arrived at the airport. In my heart sunk. The airport was crammed with people. Obviously the computers had broken down and so people were being managed manually and the line was moving slowly and I start to worry, Am I going to make my flight?
00:04:52:25 - 00:05:15:11
Unknown
Well, I got in the back of the line and start shuffling forward. And about an hour into it, I'm starting to get hopeful. And this woman comes across the lobby with a card covered with luggage and pushes her way in line a few people ahead of me. She didn't know who she was messing with, and it wasn't me because while I was feeling irritated, the guy she cut right in front of went ballistic.
00:05:15:13 - 00:05:30:09
Unknown
He went bananas. He said, You will get out of line. And she said, No, no, I have to get in line. I've got to make this flight because my kids are going to be at the airport. Please, please. He said, You get out of line and he pushes the cart and she digs in and pushes back and he digs in and pushes back.
00:05:30:09 - 00:05:49:17
Unknown
And pretty soon it's escalating. And finally he pushes the cart aside. He doubles up his fist and he's about to haul off And puncher. I'm standing about five people back in line. And I think to myself, I've got nothing better to do. I think I'll get involved.
00:05:49:19 - 00:06:11:11
Unknown
Well, I was seized with such a panic that all I could think to do was go position myself between him and her bad idea. The first thing I saw on his face was this look of confusion. But then it was this white hot rage. His eyes are bugging out of his head. His fist doubles up even more. What story is he telling himself about me now?
00:06:11:11 - 00:06:35:04
Unknown
I am the Great Satan. I'm the evil guy. So his eyes are bugging, his balled up in. Is this a crucial confrontation? My question to you is this What would you say? First, you don't have much time. What are the first words out of your mouth going to be? This is no different than when you need to confront a physician in a fast paced, tight timeframe.
00:06:35:04 - 00:06:55:22
Unknown
Urgent need. What would you say first? Here's what I said. That was unfair for her to cut in front of you. She shouldn't have done that. You've been standing here in line for over an hour, as have I. And she cuts right in line in front of you. And that's unfair. She shouldn't be able to do that. And I'm going to help you solve the problem.
00:06:55:22 - 00:07:15:07
Unknown
We're going to get somebody from the airport over here and we're going to work this out and it's going to be okay. You see what I just did? All I did was create safety. The first thing you have to do to help somebody feel psychologic be safe is make absolutely sure that they know two things. Number one, that you care about their problem.
00:07:15:10 - 00:07:37:17
Unknown
And number two, that you care about them. When they know that from you, they'll let you say anything that you need to say. They will, including a doctor who need to challenge about a diagnosis or appear if they feel safe. They'll listen. They may not agree with you, but they're going to listen. And that's our chance. An amazing thing happened when I said that to him.
00:07:37:19 - 00:07:59:12
Unknown
His hand went down. His face turned back to a normal kind of expression. His eyes got smaller. You see what just happened? He's now safe. And then I said. And you don't get to hear her. I'm not going to let you punch you, but we're going to solve the problem. And you know what? He was okay with that.
00:07:59:14 - 00:08:32:15
Unknown
He was alright with it because he felt safe. Oh, my. This takes me, like, hurtling back to the work of Patrick Lentini. And he said, if you want to have a great team, it starts with trust. And trust is built through that safety. It's like the authors of crucial conversations spent like. Like a lifetime with Patrick Collins. Yoni And it reminds me again of the themes that we keep discovering here on the Moonshots podcast.
00:08:32:17 - 00:08:58:08
Unknown
There is such a playbook to being the best version of yourself, and for me, this one you could say it's the empathy. It's the vulnerability that we've learned from Brené. It's the emotional intelligence we learned at the beginning of this series. Or it's almost servant leadership not being the first to speak. Listening. Observing. Cooling your jets a little bit.
00:08:58:10 - 00:09:39:17
Unknown
You know, avoiding being too judgmental of others. That takes me all the way to the likes of Eckhart Tolle. Dan Millman, The way of the Peaceful Warrior. What I'm reminded of here is that so much of the craziness around us is caused because people aren't having the conversations. People aren't feeling that safety. So they're in that that fight or flight, which, you know, on a very personal level, we all and this is again, another big topic that we come into, we all experience self-doubt and like that real fear of uncertainty, fear, failure.
00:09:39:17 - 00:10:06:23
Unknown
We all experience these things. And what's so very powerful is if you take a moment, if you take a moment to care about those around you, they'll care about you. And that's the start to not only being the best version of yourself, but to getting teams performing well. And although this may have sounded very simple summary that the challenge all comes into doing, doesn't it?
00:10:06:23 - 00:10:55:12
Unknown
Mike is intervening and actually having the conversation. Okay. It reminds me of one of the key lessons we learned from Michael Bunga standing around active listening. Yeah. You know, you've got to be able to, I think, because this is obviously a much more explicit theme, you know, the idea of conversations. It's very proactive and encouraging. But I think there's a foundational lesson that we learned from Boom guy Stanier, which is to function well in a conversation, to really give it the due diligence that I think the authors of crucial conversations are encouraging us to do starts by being able to put yourself on a familiar tier or the same tier as the individual that you
00:10:55:12 - 00:11:27:04
Unknown
want to talk to or collaborate with. I think that was a real lesson that we learned from Bongi Stanier around not just listening because we know we have to and waiting for our turn instead being able to absorb, listen, learn from others, then allows us to have better conversations because we're able to sympathize, able to fully understand. And therefore, it's more likely that the other person will understand us because we've been able to listen to them.
00:11:27:06 - 00:11:57:21
Unknown
So it really is it really is the case. Mike, I think particular over the past few months, we seem to have evolved around these similar themes, which is all about, you know, good collaboration comes from being on the same page. Yes. Others listening in conversations and so on. Yeah. And to framework, it's so hard. I love this graphic you've got up here because it's basically like when the stakes get high, you often have opposing opinions.
00:11:57:24 - 00:12:22:15
Unknown
And that third piece there and there come the strong emotions, right? And it's so funny, like we're so quick in that emotional intensity, Like it's a big project, it's a big moment or it's a big time in your personal relationships or it's a big moment in the family. Doesn't matter when the stakes are high. People have different ideas on how it could be resolved or how we go forward.
00:12:22:21 - 00:12:51:20
Unknown
It creates strong emotions and it's in that that strong emotion that we I mean, that story that we heard in the clip, like a man was going to literally he was threatening to punch a woman in the line at the airport. I mean, that is just bonkers, right? But the thing is, this is what happens when we allow that irrationality of emotion because of this system of high stakes, high emotion, we get carried away.
00:12:51:22 - 00:13:15:10
Unknown
And it's so funny because this is what you see in high pressure moments in sport. You know, when you see it's a really tense moment. Let's say it's in the fourth quarter and there's only a few key plays left. And under that pressure play is sometimes because it's high stakes, high emotions. They do things and everyone's like, That was so stupid, right?
00:13:15:12 - 00:13:42:15
Unknown
Yeah. So the classic thing, like if you if you were to use something that you see a lot in sports in those dying moments, someone commits a foul that sort of loses the game for the team, right? And it's not that their intentions were wrong, it's just that the emotions overwhelm them and they got too carried away. They may be tackled too hard, gave away a penalty, and therefore a chance to win or equalize.
00:13:42:15 - 00:14:04:08
Unknown
The game is and gone and all the fans are like going crazy. But the reality was that the athlete was just too caught up in the emotion because the stakes were very high. It's we see this in life all the time that because of a high stakes thing at work, people are the first thing people are doing at work.
00:14:04:08 - 00:14:28:03
Unknown
You said like if it's high stakes, high visibility, project, if it doesn't go well, they're directly thinking it's going to affect on them. So the fight or flight response that's getting emanated is, Oh, I don't want to take the blame game or it wasn't my fault because what they're doing is they're protecting themselves. And so that that's where you see that lack of accountability in an organization.
00:14:28:05 - 00:14:50:01
Unknown
Because no one wants to take the blame, because they've got strong emotions, because the stakes are high, Mark, And the need for crucial conversations, whether it's at home or in the office or anywhere in between on the sports field, it's so essential because if you can call your jets, much like we saw in that clip, you don't have to be throwing a Hail Mary punches.
00:14:50:03 - 00:15:20:04
Unknown
You don't have to be. We can escalate things and have crucial conversations. And I think that's the huge opportunity, not only in this book and in this series. And I tell you what, Mark, I think our members love these crucial conversations. And you know what, Mike? I think you're probably correct. I think the only build we can do that is I think that they love to have conversations by being part of the moonshot membership.
00:15:20:06 - 00:15:40:24
Unknown
And as usual, for those who listen, we like to acknowledge, respect and call out all of our members who join in every single week. So please as well. So it's not just acknowledgment. I just think you love playing the trumpet. I think. I think we have to. Oh, I did. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, I do. And you know what, Mike?
00:15:40:24 - 00:16:24:12
Unknown
It's time that we have a crucial conversation about this, because my. Yeah, because my emotions are so strong towards it, and, and it is high stakes and. But I think you and I have the same opinion we both in utmost respect and we're both in awe of the amazing sounds that I can make all which is all about welcoming Bob, Marceline, Ken, Diana, Marge and Connor, Rodrigo and Lisa C to Mr. Bond Jr, Paul and Bird Count and Joe, Christine and Samuel to Barbara, Andre, Eric and Chris, Deborah, Lisa, Steven, Craig, Daniel, Andrew, Ravi, Yvette, Karen and Raul, all of whom are annual members.
00:16:24:12 - 00:16:51:00
Unknown
Thank you so much, guys. As always. On those heels include PJ Knickerbocker, Ola Ingram, Dirk, Emily, Harry Karthik, Ben Carter and Marco Jet, Roger and Raul Nimal and Diana. Christophe and Dennis, Laura, Smitty, Corey Bertram, Daniella, Mike, Dan and Antonio. Vanessa, Zachary, Brian, Cassie Austin and our brand new member, Freddie. So thank you guys so much for joining us.
00:16:51:00 - 00:17:16:17
Unknown
We can we count for having those conversation boards not only with each other but with us as well by supporting moonshots? Shutt Absolutely. Thank you so much and thank you for being part of this and learning out loud together. And today we're learning out loud together. It's all about conversations. And mark this next clip, it's all about how we get them started.
00:17:16:19 - 00:17:45:22
Unknown
Yeah, that's correct. Mike As you were saying a minute ago, it's all around this idea of intentions, understanding about emotions and keeping them in control. So let's say from another one of the authors of crucial conversations, this time, Emily Gregory is going to share a tip on how we can start these types of crucial conversations. Have you ever been nervous to have a crucial conversation feeling kind of anxious because, you know, you need to go talk to someone about something and you're just not really sure how to say it?
00:17:46:02 - 00:18:12:15
Unknown
You don't want it to blow up in your face. You don't want them to get defensive or angry or sad. And you're thinking, How do I do this? Well, here's my tip. Say that. Start the conversation. And with that, come to the conversation and say, Hey, I have something really important to talk about. And honestly, I'm pretty worried about it because I care about you and I care about this and I'm not sure I know how to do it in a way that's going to be safe for everyone.
00:18:12:15 - 00:18:40:16
Unknown
So can you help me with that? Because I really want this to go well, being transparent, being vulnerable about I don't know how to have this conversation, but I want to that is one of the most powerful ways you can communicate a good intent, creating safety for yourself and others to stumble through a conversation. If people know that your intent is good, if people know that your intent is to have a conversation in a way that works for them, they will allow you a lot of fumbles.
00:18:40:18 - 00:19:00:15
Unknown
I said some pretty stupid things and in conversations and thankfully the other person has given me a pass because they knew that I was trying and that I cared about them. So that's my tip. When you're feeling nervous, anxious and worried about having a conversation, start the conversation with I'm feeling worried and nervous and anxious about this because it matters.
00:19:00:15 - 00:19:32:16
Unknown
And so, you know, the the reason I think we don't want to it's not natural or it's not common to start with how you feel is because it's perceived as being weak or unprofessional or lacking in confidence in a personal situation by what? How do you see it like when you've had to do those? Why do you think I mean, I've certainly done it as well, where I've not been transparent about how I feel.
00:19:32:23 - 00:20:03:12
Unknown
And I think it's because of those reasons where you feel reluctant to actually show that card, don't we? Yeah, I think that it's similar inside to where Brené was taking us in the power of vulnerability. This idea of welcoming and embracing as well as accepting vulnerability, really is blocked by the idea that we have to put on this brave face, this maybe stiff upper lip, as maybe it was once called, in order to prove to the world that, hey, I'm okay.
00:20:03:14 - 00:20:32:17
Unknown
Yeah, I'm good. Because if I talk about it, if I admit it to myself, maybe it becomes a big problem. Maybe the insecurity that I have, maybe the frustrations are good enough just being swept under the rug. And I think that's what a lot of us do. Certainly I did throughout the beginning of my career, just very much putting on that brave face, trying to power through, because again, the assumption I had was, well, everybody's going through this, right?
00:20:32:17 - 00:21:15:11
Unknown
And I think that's true. I think there will be many, many similarities that a lot of us have had through different steps of life and career progressions and so on. But I think the difference for some of us and particularly calling out from, you know, the likes of Brené as well as the authors of crucial conversations, is that it can be so much quicker to make relationships, to make connections with people by being a little bit more open and instead of having that, you know, stiff upper lip or mentality around powering through, just getting on with it, it does create borders and barriers between people because then you're less likely to share those insecurities, share
00:21:15:11 - 00:21:46:04
Unknown
those vulnerabilities. And like we have heard throughout the Relationship series, it's all about being transparent with others so that you can make those conversations happen much, much quicker. And, you know, the funny thing is, I think in order for us to almost workshop this together, you and I, with all of our listeners, members and viewers, I would almost say the process we have to go through to start this habit of having crucial conversations.
00:21:46:06 - 00:22:21:17
Unknown
I think the place to begin is, number one, everybody experiences discomfort, self-doubt, fear. Every single person on this planet experiences it. And just to remind everybody, nobody is perfect. Einstein was slow to talk. Steve Jobs got fired from his own company like, Yeah, I could just go on and on. That is so many great people. Walt Disney got fired for a lack of imagination, if you can believe that.
00:22:21:19 - 00:22:55:18
Unknown
I know I was in that one. Yeah. So. So if you take a step back, okay, no one's perfect. Everyone experiences doubt, fear and uncertainty, and that's okay. Now, the next step that we're learning in this show is you can share that you are feeling that because what great a connection like imagine to people on a date and each of them admit that they're a bit nervous.
00:22:55:20 - 00:23:21:04
Unknown
Well, that's like meeting in the middle. Right. But what what a genuine act of hey, I'm a bit nervous. So my or if you're having a tough conversation like, hey, I really respect you, I see that you've got great intentions. I am really unsure how to address this, but we've got to tackle this thing around our project or whatever it is.
00:23:21:06 - 00:24:00:11
Unknown
Like the more you spend building a bridge with empathy and understanding to me is is just I mean, it's so much more efficient than getting upset, blame or judgment or anger. They're all your cost you so much energy and and yet energy, time, money, right? Yeah. And those emotions also they always seem to come back and get you so like you can be angry or frustrated about something and then you'll be working out or cooking dinner and then that emotion comes back because you think about it again, you know, Oh my gosh, get out of my head.
00:24:00:11 - 00:24:34:01
Unknown
Get out of my heart. You're right. That's what happens with those those negative emotions. So I believe that this idea of finding a way to give authentic voice to how you're feeling probably is the greatest efficiency creator. Because if you weren't I we're in a tough conversation and I started with, hey, I'm unsure or I'm nervous about this conversation and you're probably feeling the same.
00:24:34:01 - 00:25:06:22
Unknown
And we both kind of admit that that almost to a lesser degree, but still the same thing like that clip about the the line at the airport. It really just takes the emotion and the crazy out of the conversation. And then it kind of just enables us to talk as two humans who've both got good intentions and recalibrating and getting back on the same page on that man, man, this is good stuff.
00:25:06:24 - 00:25:39:15
Unknown
It's so valuable, isn't it? Exactly. To your point, if we want to put a practicality lens on this, having those crucial conversations and being open to having them and cultivating that level of security and safety that comes from having empathy with each other and taking the time, you know, not only to get to know each other for sure, but also being able to share concerns and anxieties much more openly really does lead to a higher level of efficiency and effectiveness within a team.
00:25:39:17 - 00:26:04:13
Unknown
And that team could be a relationship like a spouse couple as well as as a as a as a work one career, one. And I think that's really already making the case, Mike, that if we're able just to have a little bit of patience and a little bit of awareness around our own reactions so that when somebody is telling us a story or trying to have a conversation, we don't immediately shut down.
00:26:04:13 - 00:26:37:18
Unknown
I mean, there were certain times for me, you know, before we really opened up about conversations and so on where, you know, I'd be in an awkward situation or conversation and feel very hot or fluttered, you know, very uncomfortable physically. Yeah, Yeah, of course. And I think just having that curiosity has really helped me. You know, if there's moments when I'll be receiving, let's say it's a bit of feedback or something's come over the table that, you know, makes me feel a bit, Oh, this is this is a funny feeling.
00:26:37:24 - 00:27:04:09
Unknown
I feel uncomfortable. Yeah, yeah. And it's so fun to then be curious about that. And I think that's really where, you know, a lot of these lessons that we've learned more recently on the on Moonshot show, they can come into play. Yeah, because you start to appreciate, hey, conversations they make me uncomfortable. Why is that? Let's now figure this out get a little bit better at it and therefore become more efficient, effective and be that better version.
00:27:04:11 - 00:27:34:09
Unknown
It's a plethora of tips and tricks that we're already learning on this, aren't we? Yeah, you're absolutely right. And the I think the big takeaway from that previous clip is find a way of being candid and frank about how you're feeling in crucial conversation. And I'm feeling excited because I'm feeling uncertain because I'm not really sure if I can say this in the right way.
00:27:34:09 - 00:28:01:24
Unknown
So I want you to give me a chance here to really try and communicate, but be a little forgiving. Or maybe I can't quite find the words. Or maybe I'm feeling apprehensive about this conversation because we're in a really tough place, you know? And, you know, also, you know, coming out of the bat straight away and acknowledging effort and attitude from others, even if the outcome is not there.
00:28:02:00 - 00:28:26:17
Unknown
Like, I think this is such a healthy way to start conversations. And look, I think for all of our members, listeners and viewers, if they want to keep the conversation going with us, the first place they can start is a very famous little place called Moonshots Dot Ohio. What might they find at this salubrious address? Well, you know what?
00:28:26:17 - 00:28:52:04
Unknown
They are going to find lots and lots of items and topics and themes that would then inform these valuable conversations that we can have with each other. So members, listeners, viewers pop along to moonshots. Dot I, you can check out all 237 of our moonshots podcast shows. You get transcripts, you get frameworks, you get reading lists as well as that.
00:28:52:05 - 00:29:14:17
Unknown
You also can check out previews and trailers for 26. I think it is. Mike I've lost count of all Moonshots master series as well. You can check out our upcoming shows. You can check out all archival footage and clips that we've got. But also, Mike, you can become a member. Just click on the banner right on the home page.
00:29:14:19 - 00:29:43:03
Unknown
And it's as easy as that to become a part of the Moonshot membership family. Yes. And part two, once you've done your moonshot, Daddio, Part two is about tuning in to the rest of this episode because we've talked about like this crucial thing of acknowledging where the other person is at, how to start the conversation. And now it's time for us to really discuss how to keep the conversation going.
00:29:43:05 - 00:30:05:22
Unknown
That's Ryan. Who better than one of our moonshots favorites Productivity game. He's going to do just that for us. A crucial conversation is a critical confrontation that needs to be handled with care. Examples include calling a client who hasn't paid an overdue invoice or walking into your boss's office to talk about a promotion he promised you but hasn't delivered on yet.
00:30:05:24 - 00:30:30:20
Unknown
We're confronting a lazy teammate who isn't doing his share of the project or talking to your sibling, but your parents inheritance. Navigating a crucial conversation is like defuzing a bomb. Touch the wrong button or hit the wrong wire and you set off an explosion of emotion. The best way to avoid an emotional explosion and prevent a conversation from going silent or verbally violent is to keep the dialog going.
00:30:30:22 - 00:30:59:18
Unknown
If there's dialog and there's a chance you can work through whatever issue is at the heart of the conversation. In the book, Crucial Conversations, I've discovered a toolset that you and I can use to Defuze the tension during a crucial conversation and get back to productive dialog. Everybody walks into crucial conversations with a story. That story might be my teammate doesn't care about my project because he doesn't come to my meetings or my boss doesn't care about my career because he hasn't given me a promotion yet.
00:30:59:20 - 00:31:16:04
Unknown
If you approach a crucial conversation with a story and a conclusion already in mind, there's no room for dialog because your mind's already made up. For there to be any hope for productive dialog, you must assume that you don't know the full story and you need the help of the person you're talking to to get a complete picture.
00:31:16:06 - 00:31:44:05
Unknown
A great way to communicate this is to replay the situation as you saw it by using a when I invite as in when this happened and that happened, I felt like this and jumped to this conclusion. If you need to confront a teammate who's not doing his fair share of work on a team project, use the when I framework by saying when you don't show up to team meetings and don't deliver work to your teammates on time, I fear you don't care about this project and aren't putting in the same effort as your teammates.
00:31:44:07 - 00:32:03:14
Unknown
Then after your when I invite them to share their story by saying something like I'm probably not seeing the whole picture, can you help me see what's going on? You could use this when I invite to confront a client who hasn't paid you for weeks by saying when I fail to see a payment from you for several weeks and don't get a response to my emails, I worry that you'll never pay me.
00:32:03:17 - 00:32:25:02
Unknown
Then quickly invite them to share their story by saying something like, Can you help me understand what's happening on your end? When you use a when I invite, you're not being passive or aggressive. You're being assertive with the facts and honestly sharing your experience. Chances are the person you're confronting will be less inclined to defend their character, more inclined to clarify the situation.
00:32:25:04 - 00:32:47:20
Unknown
But sometimes you can do everything right at the beginning of a crucial conversation, and the conversation will still turn into a heated argument. And that's because the person you're talking to sees you as an opponent, as an enemy they must defeat to get their way to avoid a yelling match and get back to productive dialog. You must convince the person you're talking to that you're not their opponent, you're not their enemy.
00:32:48:00 - 00:33:10:00
Unknown
You're actually on the same side. To do this, you need to find and communicate a common goal, value or purpose. If a crucial conversation with a teammate is not going well, remind him that you both want to enjoy working together and you want the project to go well because you both want your end bonuses. If a conversation with your spouse isn't going well, pause and say There's no need to fight.
00:33:10:05 - 00:33:34:21
Unknown
You and I both love this family and we both want what's best for this family. When you find common ground, you'll realize that you and your conversation partner simply have conflicting strategies to achieve the same ultimate goal. Once you identify and communicate that ultimate goal, your conversation transforms from a fight to more like a strategy brainstorming session. My advice is gold, isn't it?
00:33:34:21 - 00:34:14:18
Unknown
It's just That's a good one, right? That's that's really good. I mean, this comes back to that theme that we've been touching upon, like in the end of the day, 99% of the people around you will have really good intentions. Right? And it's their failure to execute it. So the common ground that we can always find is that we both are striving for the same thing and it reminds me of when, you know, let's take football fans when their team's not doing well, you know, fans can be just so critical of the players and the coaches.
00:34:14:20 - 00:34:39:14
Unknown
But think about it like this market. Do you really think any single player or coach who's in a team that's not winning very much? Do you really think they go out there with the idea that they want to lose? I, I find it so hard to believe, which makes me then think everybody on that page is trying to do the same thing.
00:34:39:14 - 00:35:00:25
Unknown
So why get why did fans get so frustrated when it doesn't happen? Because we know that they were working towards the same goal. But it's interesting, right? Because they can be frustrated and express that, but then they get judgmental and angry and vindictive. And actually it's just a little microcosm of what we all do in teams, in working relationships.
00:35:01:05 - 00:35:33:15
Unknown
But the point is this and I'm using sports to kind of abstract that it's just this normal pattern that we see everywhere. Every single person by and far most of the time. And most players, when they go out there, they're endeavoring to win the game and to win the championship. So if you're a fan and you're booing in the stands, if you're shouting and getting angry, I just want you to imagine you want them to win.
00:35:33:20 - 00:35:58:25
Unknown
And so did the players and coaches, because they're giving up their lives to do this. So they want to win, too. And as soon as you do that, I think it is almost impossible to hold on to that anger because you're like, Oh, man, because here's what I do. I imagine how it feels to them. They're not just the fan and the player and they're not happy.
00:35:59:01 - 00:36:33:18
Unknown
And everybody else is saying that. Yeah, it really speaks to me. This idea of emotions rather than, Oh, sorry, the idea of letting our emotions play in too much versus that reminder, that acknowledgment of the intentionality that other people have. We heard from productivity in that clip just then talk to your spouse around the fact that you both want your family to succeed, Talk to your teammates because you both want your maybe to your end bonus.
00:36:33:18 - 00:36:55:13
Unknown
Maybe it's just the success of a project exactly like the analogy you're making. Mike With regards to the sports team, I think at the end of the day, we are all striving to be not only the best version of ourselves, but also trying to just do our jobs, trying to work hard on being good collaborators in whatever fashion that might be.
00:36:55:15 - 00:37:15:20
Unknown
And I think you're right. Isn't it a relief to know that we don't have to work with people who are intentionally sabotaging the situation and instead, yeah, it just happens that that's the way it's gone and suddenly that takes a lot of pressure off the situation. There's no need to get frustrated with somebody because that hasn't necessarily happened.
00:37:15:20 - 00:37:43:07
Unknown
Instead, let's bring it down the whole conversation. Maybe they need help. Maybe the individual, your teammate needs a little bit of assistance. Maybe there's too much weight for them to carry, but there's no way for them to communicate it because maybe they don't know how it comes into some of those lessons that we learned again, from August. Yeah, as well as even Brené with the power of an ability just to absorb and hear others, help them kind of come out as well.
00:37:43:09 - 00:38:10:08
Unknown
If you think that you're in more of a let's call it a confident or aware position. Yes. And I'll give you another argument on why we should be like that. Again, I'm going to use the sports analogy here. Okay. How many times have we seen some player in a sports team not performing get transfer good to another team, another environment and does really well?
00:38:10:10 - 00:38:34:17
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And we were looking at that player in the previous team going, oh my, they can't do anything. Then in a different environment they thrive and do well, which tells us something like that athlete had potential, is capable of playing really well. So to blame them is really unfair. When it was only the environment around them of which they weren't controlling.
00:38:34:19 - 00:39:08:13
Unknown
So in the same way, that helps us have empathy for, well, if things are not working with people involved in our personal professional lives, bridge the gap. Should I feel have those crucial conversations? Because invariably the common ground is going to be everyone's got the same intention or goal and we're just disconnected on the execution. And sometimes we can be aligned on execution, but we don't realize there are other factors affecting how they achieve their goals.
00:39:08:15 - 00:39:35:02
Unknown
Once we become aware of them, then we might be able to help and solve those and actually create better conversation, better results, better outcomes at home or in the office, right? I mean, talk about a value proposition like that idea of alignment. Imagine the relief that you would feel knowing that everybody is working towards the same common goal.
00:39:35:04 - 00:39:57:00
Unknown
Yes. And when you have to go and have that conversation with your spouse, your colleague, you know that half the job's already done, you know that you're already on the same page. So now it's just about refining that alignment to make sure that you both reach the end goal is, oh, it's relieving. But from that relief, I think we have to do something.
00:39:57:00 - 00:40:19:25
Unknown
I think that's the last job to be done, which is we've all got to own this. Number one, acknowledge how you're feeling, learn to and find the courage to share how you're feeling, to have those conversations, to keep the conversations going. Sometimes you know how you like, Oh gosh, why do I always have to, like, start the conversation?
00:40:19:25 - 00:40:40:11
Unknown
Why do I have to put my foot forward? Do it, own it, pay it forward, show the initiative, because it is all fundamentally about if you continue to do that, where you're aware of it, I'm guaranteeing you there'll be other parts of your life, whereas other people are saying the same about you because we know we're not perfect, right?
00:40:40:13 - 00:41:03:05
Unknown
So this is the opportunity. Pay it forward. Give your best to be vulnerable, to listen to your emotions, to keep the conversations going. This is what we've got to own and what the most beautiful thing is. Mike, This last clip that we've got is all about owning it. That's right. We got one more clip to close out our show today on crucial conversations.
00:41:03:07 - 00:41:36:25
Unknown
We're actually going to hear from another one of the authors, Mike Ron McMillan. He's going to give us advice on how to take crucial accountability. Here's my advice When a significant gap occurs between what you expected and what you're getting, you've got to have a crucial if a significant gap exists above the line, people are outperforming expectations. Never let that gap pass without acknowledging it and thanking the person.
00:41:37:01 - 00:42:04:11
Unknown
If someone significantly outperforms expectations, never let that gap pass without. Acknowledging it and thanking the person. Bill, I heard on Friday you got your work done and you chipped in and helped Fred and Sally and the whole team finished off without any overtime. Fantastic. That helps. The team helps me. Helps the company. Well done. Never let that gap pass.
00:42:04:13 - 00:42:41:23
Unknown
Similarly, never let a significant gap below the line occur. When you expect one thing, you're getting something that disappoints. You never let that gap pass without confronting it. A crucial confrontation. Don't go silent. Don't confront it with violence, be respectful, be thoughtful, be conscious, work on solving problems and improving relationships. Do you'll get significant breakthroughs in performance at a team level, at a relationship level, at a leadership level.
00:42:41:25 - 00:43:08:25
Unknown
Oh, man, he just brought it home right there. I think. I think the one thing we haven't talked about that he mentioned is we've kind of focused on when expectations aren't being met. But he mentions above expectations, doesn't he? Yeah, I like that. I just had that down as well this acknowledgment is so important here, isn't it? And again, it speaks back to, I think what we heard in the first clip around safety.
00:43:09:01 - 00:43:40:13
Unknown
So if you're able to cultivate not only a relationship or a dialog with employees, colleagues that maybe has a tinge of feedback, maybe it's constructive, maybe it's a little bit you know, you put your socks up and direct. It's also doing it from a positive perspective because, Mike, as we've spoken about on the show before, sometimes it's really hard to take a moment and pause when a project or a campaign or a bit of great work has been complete.
00:43:40:15 - 00:44:20:13
Unknown
And B and the reason why we don't get to acknowledge a lot of the time is because you're too busy trying to move on. And I think what we're hearing here, again, is reinforcing this requirement or this desire that we should have to acknowledge those moments because it creates that, I think, safety. I think you're going to cultivate that environment where the next time you need to give something maybe a little bit more negative, maybe a little bit more direct, again, with the lessons that we're learning today, that's perhaps on the criticism side of the of the brief when you've actually already positively reinforced them previously, it's going to be a lot easier for them
00:44:20:13 - 00:44:43:02
Unknown
to absorb your feedback because they've gone through it already in a positive way as well as negative. Yes. I think, again, when we think about this effectiveness, the Efficiency Act really comes down to playing the conversation on both sides, doesn't it? Put it into practice a positive light because then you give it gravitas in the negative light as well?
00:44:43:04 - 00:45:15:20
Unknown
Yes. Yeah. And I think the aha moment I'm having like maybe I take it for granted when people do great work around me or bad expectation, what a great opportunity to kind of reflect on that. And maybe I need to be going out and giving a whole lot more praise. Well, yeah, I mean, it is it's similar to what we've really heard from that the beginning of the show, isn't it?
00:45:15:20 - 00:45:36:02
Unknown
If you can manage those emotions and those behaviors, then enable you to, you know, be more patient. I think at the same time, we should manage our emotions and behaviors so that instead of moving straight on to the next thing, when we do complete something positively, having that discipline to say, Oh, actually, you know what, let's hit pause.
00:45:36:04 - 00:46:00:01
Unknown
Hey so-and-so, you did a great job here. Let's try and reward this or acknowledge it. And again, it just comes down to discipline, doesn't it? Yeah. Making sure that we are we know that it's going to lead to positive behaviors from the team or to your spouse or whoever it might be. And it's all about just being diligent, being disciplined, sticking it so that we know.
00:46:00:01 - 00:46:20:02
Unknown
And I think we really made the case today that these crucial conversations, as well as confrontations, they live and die on just how much you are willing to invest from a time and energy perspective, right? Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And even though it's uncomfortable, you just got to break through. So we've done a bit of a masterclass. Mike, what's what's on the homework in there for you.
00:46:20:02 - 00:46:50:18
Unknown
What, what's your big takeout? Well, you know what, Today was a it was a really interesting one with all four areas really sparking me to write down and note a lot of the different elements that I want to try and replicate. But actually, I'm going to stick with the final clip we had from Ron there. This idea of celebrating as well as providing perhaps more negative feedback, because I think there's always times, there's always more times in our agendas where we're able to celebrate them.
00:46:50:18 - 00:47:27:13
Unknown
Perhaps we do. Yeah. What about you, Mike? I'm on exactly the same page, Mike. We we are singing the same song. We are having a crucial conversation. And in the spirit of the book, I want to say thank you for such a great show. Thank you for helping pull it together. I really appreciate your contribution. So thank you to you, Mark, and thank you to you, our listeners, viewers and members, because Today show 237 of the means that spoke last was about the great work the book Crucial Conversations.
00:47:27:13 - 00:47:51:03
Unknown
And it started, of course, naturally in an airport in Bangladesh. But then we moved on and had to start a crucial conversation and had to keep one going. And we brought it home with crucial accountability, owning it, putting your best foot forward, to be vulnerable, to be transparent, to build those relationships and connections so you can go out in the world and be the best version of yourself.
00:47:51:03 - 00:47:58:03
Unknown
And you can do that right here on the Moonshots podcast, where we learn out loud together. All right, that's a wrap.