Subscribe
Share
Share
Embed
A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.
Jeremy: Hey, Joe, by the way.
Joe: how's it going?
as some of you may be suspicious
of, I'm cat sitting for B.
Jeremy: Yeah, they told us, last
week, Pete was like, yes, I won't be
here next week, but my apartment will
still be making an appearance on the
Emily: Yeah, I was going to say,
like, I recognize that background.
Greg: Before we start recording,
because this crowd, uh, it will
probably be interested in this,
Henry Kissinger finally died.
Joe: Get the fuck out.
I am so mad that I didn't know
that the second it happened.
I am, I'm so upset.
Emily: When, when did it happen?
Was that today?
Joe: you.
It had to be
Greg: it had to be today.
Like,
Joe: I've, been
Greg: I just idly opened Blue Sky.
Jeremy: Motherfucker made it to a
Joe: Hundred and, hundred and a half.
Cause his birthday's May, May 27th.
I've got
Jeremy: Washington Post says it happened.
Greg: Yeah.
Emily: Henry Kissinger.
Jesus Christ.
Greg: Yeah, seems pretty official.
Jeremy: Speaking of, Nazis, Uh,
you wanna talk about this movie?
Greg: Yes, please.
Emily: Let's get this over with.
I really
Greg: Should we keep in the
part where we talk about, like,
Henry Kissinger just died?
Jeremy: Sure.
Emily: Yeah, Alicia, make that this thing.
Thank you, Alicia.
Love you.
Jeremy: It'll explain the sense of
levity we have about these Nazis.
Greg: Yes.
Jeremy: Alright.
evening and welcome to Progressively
Horrified, the podcast where
we hold horror to progressive
standards it never agreed to.
Tonight, we are talking about the latest
movie to join my list of great movies
I'm never gonna recommend to anybody.
Soft and quiet.
I am your host, Jeremy Whitley,
and with me tonight I have a
panel of xenophiles and xenobites.
First, the cinnamon roll of
xenobites, our co host, Emily Martin.
How are you tonight, Emily?
Emily: Uh, really, like, if you have
suggestions for a new name, I'm looking
for something that is not in this film.
Jeremy: As somebody who has seen a
lot of movies with shitty jeremies.
I understand the impulse.
Emily: yes.
But at least white women are getting
the representation they deserve.
ha
Greg: Yeah.
Emily: ha!
ha!
Jeremy: so, uh, yeah, Ben, Ben
is not in the house for this one.
I am sure they would have
plenty to say about it.
Uh, but they
Greg: Oh, definitely.
Jeremy: and, uh, in their place,
we have two long time guests of the
podcast, good friends of the podcast and
incredible writers in their own right.
We got Joe Crowell and Greg Silber.
Welcome back y'all.
Joe: Thank
Greg: for having me.
Jeremy: you, guys both
volunteered for this
Greg: don't think I've ever heard as
many slurs as I did, in this movie.
Joe: The French connection
gets up there, but
Greg: I haven't, I haven't seen that yet.
Well, it's, it's more the variety
Joe: There's a variety, yeah, no, I,
Greg: It's not like them using
the same slur over and over again.
Like, if you can think of a marginalized
group, and think of a slur for them,
chances are it is said in this movie.
Jeremy: Yeah, I haven't heard this
many slurs since I worked at a grocery
store in the South in high school, so,
Joe: I haven't heard this many slurs
since they cancelled Mind of Mencia.
Emily: uh, uh,
Jeremy: yeah, I, uh, I was telling Alicia,
I was like, this is this really, this
one kind of brought back some memories
for me, because, uh, I had a boss when
I worked at a local grocery store that I
will not name in Lenore, where my family
lives who liked to use, like, what I
would refer to as antiquated racism.
Like, almost novelty racism I was
accused of working like a slur for
a Polish person, and I was like,
Have you even met any Polish people?
You've lived in the South your
whole life, like, what is,
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: your racism, sir?
Joe: once in my life, uh, this was in
the Midwest, uh, someone actually to
my face referred to me as I talian.
Like, that's a thing that happened.
Jeremy: I had a friend in high school
whose family was from New York, well,
from New York via Italy, and uh, his, his
grandmother was deathly concerned that
people were going to hate them for being
Italian, and I was like, I know they're,
they're really more interested in other
sorts of racism here, but there are not
enough Italian people in the South for
them to really be that worried about it.
Greg: I mean, up, up until like the
mid 1960s when my grandparents moved to
their home the country club, not too far
away, you know, it's a golf course and
stuff did have a no Jews or Italians.
rule as late as like the 1960s.
Emily: Wow, Jesus.
Jeremy: Yeah, my,
uh,
Emily: mean,
Jeremy: yeah, I, so, before we talk
too much about this movie, I did want
to mention, like, I looked at a lot of
reviews and stuff of this movie afterwards
about people that seem very confused about
who made this movie and, like, what they
think they're doing, uh, that this movie
is written and directed by Beth Diarao
and this is her, like, debut feature
film, but she is, like, she is much more
similar to the women who are victimized
in this movie than the women who are the,
uh, I wouldn't say protagonist, but the
focus of this movie, her parents are,
Asian and, Latino, and, I can't imagine
that anything that happens in this movie
goes over her head or is unintentional.
Um, a lot of the reviews of this seem to
be like, this was made by white people
for white people, and it's like, no, like,
Greg: That's factually incorrect.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: So like I, feel like going in,
it's worth saying that because I feel
like that definitely like colors the
way that people should be looking at the
movie and, and thinking about what it is
trying to say whether they, whatever your
eventual opinions are of this, this is
an incredibly difficult movie to watch.
Emily: Well, when I was looking it
up on Letterboxd cause I didn't, I
didn't know anything about the movie.
It was just on our list and I was
like, oh, and then finally I was
thinking, oh, hey, it's coming up.
And I was almost going to
watch it the other night for my
friends coming over for dinner.
Glad we didn't.
Would have been our real appetite
killer, but I looked it up on
Jeremy: didn't want some
cherry pie after this?
Emily: Oh, my God.
Oh, God.
But the first thing, uh, the first
movie on the list of movies like
this one was American History X.
And I was, that's where the alarms
went off and I was like, Oh, shit.
American History X, and then there was
like, Midsommar in there, and Hereditary,
which I don't quite get why Hereditary's
on there, other than the fact that
it's just also very upsetting, and
Jeremy: the way it makes
you feel afterwards,
Emily: Yeah, there was also an allergy
to peanuts referred to in Hereditary,
Greg: Oh, true,
Emily: so, yeah.
Jeremy: strange but
absolutely true connection.
Emily: Yes!
This movie, I believed, knew exactly
what it's doing, and it I didn't really
pull any punches for better or worse.
but it was very clear how
shitty these people were.
Jeremy: I want to say as as somebody
who has lived in the South, and this
is not set in the South, particularly,
it is set in Montana, actually.
But Montana might as well be in the
South for as sort of rural as it is.
It's just very cold South.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I said before that it, it really
brought back some unpleasant memories for
me, and I feel like that is absolutely
true of both the, like, some of the stuff
that happens, which I, you know, I haven't
witnessed anything like the really bad
stuff that happens in this, but it The
sort of insidious nature of the main
characters in this movie, especially
Emily, who's the character we're following
from the beginning, who is, um, the worst
in a very specific and very real way,
Emily: Yes.
Yes.
Greg: like, like, I feel
like I've met that woman.
Like, I feel like I've met her several
times across the course of my life.
Emily: Yes.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Greg: saying slurs, like, directly
at me, but maybe after I walked away.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: yeah, and I, as somebody who is
you know, my, myself, a white man who is
married to a black woman, it is really
scary, depressing, and also extremely
weird to, like, occasionally find myself
in rooms full of white people, where
other white people feel very comfortable
saying things in front of me, that, uh,
if my wife was there, I would fight.
Emily: Yes.
Jeremy: I would, you know, they, they
wouldn't say them first of all, but
if, they did in front of my wife,
like, I would be throwing bows.
Like, it would not be a question.
But like, yeah, I've, I've been
both, when I was growing up and
in various points in my life, like
been in rooms with people like
this, where they felt comfortable
to take their masks off around me.
And, uh, it is not a
comfortable situation.
They're horrible people.
And Not to like be too shitty
about it, but they're everywhere
like they're all over the
place
Emily: Yeah,
Greg: well, let me tell you what was Maybe
not the best idea for my brain this week.
I watched this movie, uh, the
same week that I saw Schindler's
List for the first time.
Emily: Oh, jeez.
Oh,
Jeremy: for the first time
Greg
Greg: don't know!
I don't know!
I saw Soft and Quiet first.
And then, like, two days ago,
that was on, like, Monday,
Jeremy: And you were like, what would
be a great double feature with this?
Greg: you know, I've never seen
Schindler's List solely because
I know it's going to make me sad,
and it's been,
Jeremy: I'm already
sad
Greg: my, it's like on my, like, list
for every streaming service I have.
I just never watched it.
And finally I just got
this urge the other night.
I was like, you know what?
Like it's, I should stop
being afraid and finally watch
Emily: I
get the
Greg: cultural touchstone.
Jeremy: I just I love the idea that all
this that all the streaming services are
like watch Schindler's List Greg Watch it
Emily: Well, Greg, it sounds like
Greg, you put it on your list and
you're like, just been waiting to watch
it because and I do get the logic.
This is actually very logical
to me because like watching this
movie, I was like, I just want
to, I just want to read Berserk.
Like, I just want to,
Jeremy: poses ourselves to more trauma.
Emily: Yeah, at this point, I'm like,
this was a low, like, this is a real
low, and, you know, maybe I'm, I'm just,
like, numb, or maybe I'm, I am just
mad with power that I survived this,
this, I mean, Which is, like, kind of
fucked up to say, especially because,
survival is such a subject of the film.
Greg: I, I feel like the best
horror movies leave you walking
away feeling like, like you said,
I can't believe I survived this.
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: that, and that's what
makes us horror fans strong.
Emily: Yeah, and I mean, like, you
were talking with us about Hereditary,
too, and we had that sort of Hereditary,
the same the same kind of feeling in
Hereditary, at least with Hereditary,
it was ghosts and witches and stuff,
and demons, and this movie is very real
it's, shot in kind of a documentary
style It's not single, like, it's
not a single camera or anything, but
it's a really, like, that's one of
the things that I feel is very good
about the, that decision is that it is
definitely about just this microcosm.
And I'm not talking about the racism, but
just the, this group of people and how
this shitty group of people, these like
horrible things can happen with these
shitty people because they just escalate.
And there's a lot of movies about
this kind of thing where something
goes wrong and it escalates
and, it's very enthralling.
But I think that this movie as poignant
as it is, because like, it follows
those little details in a sort of, like,
over the shoulder camera action way.
Jeremy: Yeah, it is it is done All
at least in theory in one shot.
There are no cuts in this movie.
It was filmed, they filmed it
four times, four nights in a row.
And according to the filmmakers, most
of what they use in the film is, is from
the fourth night, from the fourth take.
There are some, some spots you can
see where, you know, it's okay.
They very easily could have cut here
and, and picked up cause there's a
lot of like still shots of stuff.
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: The most ominous shot
of a pie I have ever seen
in my life.
Joe: uh, you know, it's, what's
funny for me, you saw, Schindler's
List, that's not the funny part.
The funny part is, I watched on Monday
Dial M for Murder, which, oddly enough,
you Also, like, it ties in a little bit,
like, it was completely unintentional, but
you know, like, the human instinct to just
find similarities and things, and it's
like, it's a movie about someone who is
poorly handling a murder they committed.
Yeah.
Emily: This is not a fun version of that.
Like, there's fun versions of that.
This is not fun.
This is like, you know, you just watch
how it gets worse and worse and worse.
Jeremy: There's a lot of people, like
I said, I wouldn't recommend this movie
to a lot of people it's not a fun movie
to watch, it is very heavy, there's a
lot of disturbing stuff, like, there,
you know, I've seen a lot of horrible
shit in horror movies, there were
definitely a few moments in this one
where I, I just had to, like, look away,
But, like, it is impeccably directed,
it is incredibly acted, it is, like, a
beautifully, it is a beautiful and well
made movie from just, like, a, the way
it's made, uh, perspective, it is not
for everybody but it is very well made.
Joe: And speaking to that point that
you're making you know, since hereditary
was brought up and all that too, like
part of what makes the movie work or
work best in, in like the best moments
of the movie is that there's no like
big names or something like that.
If you, I think you'd be sucked
out a little bit if it was like,
you know, like Tony collider or
some like big, yeah.
Like, yeah, it's a big, actors and
actresses were in it, but it added to
the realism of it by having, all of
that and the, tension, like, I, I think
this movie works best in those scenes
where they're like yelling and like
talking over each other and it's chaotic.
And like, I, found that really
gripping and really like.
hard to take your eyes off it because
you're just like, wow, like in those
moments, you're just waiting and they
did, I think, a very good job at gluing
your eyes to the screen and being
like, is she going to fire the gun?
Is, you know, someone going to come in?
Is someone going to grab the gun?
What's going on?
And all of that, I think, worked
really well in this movie.
Emily: Yeah.
It's hard to take your eyes off
of it, except when like, there's a
few things that you just can't like
really fully absorb like this is one
of those movies that I sort of Kind
of turned my my head a few times
Jeremy: Well, there's, and there's
I will say there is a scene that is
intentionally, like, cut away from,
like, where we're seeing, sort of,
the outskirts of one of the more
vile, horrible scenes in the thing but
they're, like, very intentionally not
focusing on the actual physical trauma
that's being done to this character.
There is some fucking malicious
sound editing in that section,
Joe: Yeah.
Greg: Oh, oh
Jeremy: it is, like, the visual,
that it's panning away, and you're
seeing people's reaction to what's
going on, but like, the fucking sound
editing in that section is, it is mean
Greg: yeah, I feel like if you gave
this movie to a lot of people and were
like, this is a horror movie, and that
was the only information you gave them.
I think a lot of people, at least
for the bulk of the movie, would
be like, how is this horror?
I mean, like, it's upsetting because
people are, bigoted and stuff, but
you know, really horror?
Because there's nothing really
traditionally horror about it,
except for the fact that it presents
these very real things, even early
on in the movie, and just, such
a, stark, unfiltered look at it.
The movie makes you feel
horrified just by the reality.
A great example.
And not to get too, high on ourselves.
I know we haven't done the recap yet.
Um, but I mentioned that
shot of the pie earlier.
Now, just to clarify This is a pie that
the character Emily has been carrying
around for the beginning of the movie.
It's
Jeremy: is one of the most amazing
reveals in cinema history, I
have to say,
Greg: and she goes to this, she goes
to this meeting in I guess it's a c
like a church or a cathedral, whatever.
Emily: It's like a little like
kind of Swedenborg in church kind
of thing like this whole like
Jeremy: yeah, it's, it's
a real church, it's,
uh,
Greg: yeah.
it seems like they probably filmed
that real church, uh, but they're,
they're at this, little table for
this little club, and you're not
sure what the club's about yet.
And then she.
Unveils the aluminum foil, and
there is a swastika, like, cut
in very deeply into the pie.
And as as a Jewish person, first of all,
you know, not, not to, not to mention,
you know, all the other groups that
were brutalized by the Nazis like, the
swastika is one of the very few things
that I could just, see as iconography
and I get scared and they linger the
camera so long on this pie and then
finally someone cuts into the pie and is
strawberry and I love a good strawberry
pie but it this thing must have cooked
it this way on purpose because like The
strawberry juice kind of looks like blood
Emily: yeah, it's a very runny pie.
Greg: If I didn't know about the
whole swastika thing, I, probably
would have taken a slice of a
pie, but looks like a, not just
a gross pie, but like an evil pie.
Well,
Joe: they would have invited you, though,
so I don't think that would have been
Greg: true.
Jeremy: this feeling.
Greg: for multiple reasons, I would
be a very bad member of what is
the Daughters of Arian Fathers or
Emily: Yeah, it's something it's something
Aryan unity or something like that.
Greg: yeah,
Emily: yeah, this scene
is, it's really well done
Jeremy: well, let's go ahead and a
little recap because we're going to
get to it almost right off the bat,
Emily: yes, yes.
Jeremy: this is really interesting.
I knew very little about
this movie going in.
I had seen a lot of like people talking
about it and very intentionally like not
absorbed it because it was one of those
that was coming up on lists of things
that I'm paying attention to as, you
know, scheduling stuff for this podcast.
People were like, you know, this
is the thing I need to look at.
So, um, it starts, uh, Stephanie
Estes, who's our, our main character
Emily, who, uh, we're gonna
follow through the whole thing.
Uh, there's also Olivia
Lucardi who plays Leslie.
There's Dana Millican, who plays Kim.
And Eleanor Panetta, who plays Marjorie.
There's sort of the main ones we're
going to follow around throughout this.
Uh, we also have Melissa Paolo and,
uh, Sissy Lee in the main cast here.
we start off following Emily, who's
a, uh, a kindergarten teacher.
She's talking to a second
grader at the beginning.
She's a kindergarten teacher.
But she's tearfully taking a
pregnancy test that isn't turning
out her way in the bathroom.
And we sort of follow her back into
the school all the kids have left
except for this one kid who is sort
of standing out there and she does,
she starts off with some like.
red flag, moderately racist stuff
where like, there's, uh, Latina
janitor who's pushing around
a bucket and mopping floors.
And she tells the little boy who's
there with her, you need to go tell that
woman that she's putting you in danger
by, you know, mopping these floors.
She's, it's a
very like calculated.
Yeah.
It's a very calculated training him to
look down on her to treat her like the
help, even though she isn't an adult woman
Greg: yeah, but also just like, like
on principle, like her reasoning,
like, oh, like you're going to slip
on the, he already left school.
His mom's going to be here
any second to pick him up.
He's not going back and
then, falling on his face.
Jeremy: Oh yeah, she is looking for a
reason to do something to this woman.
Yeah, she, tells the mom when she
comes to pick her up like, Oh, like,
she really put your son in danger.
Like, really pushing this sort of
narrative that we see is not true.
Along the way, going to her little
meeting after she leaves she meets up
with, uh, for the first time, She's
just meeting her, uh, Leslie, who is
an ex Kahn, Who is invited for this
meeting by their mutual friend, Kim.
If you're paying attention, Leslie has a
jacket that has some German on the back.
Um, but you don't really
know to look for that yet.
Greg: I missed it.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: on the way in, we meet Kim,
who is the mother of two, who owns
the local convenience store, at which
Leslie works, and is his friends with
Emily we meet Marjorie, who was recently
passed over for a promotion at her
shitty job, and, uh, Jessica Jessica's,
as Emily put it, Jessica's so naughty.
There's, like I said, one of the best,
like, sort of reveals in a movie I've ever
seen, because she's been carrying this pie
with her the whole time, and we haven't
seen it because it's wrapped in foil, and
she sets it down on the table in front
of everybody, and they're like, oh, pie!
She takes the foil off, and there's a
swastika carved in it, And I, of course,
immediately am like, what the fuck?
Uh, the, and so are several of the other
people on the screen, like, seeing this.
Emily does this, like, Oh, it's a
joke, can anybody take a joke bit?
And it's like, it's chilling.
It's
chilling when it happens.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: So Leslie is just sort of
along for the ride, but Leslie is
also an ex Kahn who is Seemingly
down to do whatever needs to be done,
especially as it involves Kim, who
has hired her fresh out of prison.
She is already viewing this
group as her family, like,
three minutes into being there.
We get to find out that Kim has a
lot of, like, very heavy prejudices
about the people who've You know,
frequent her convenience store,
they're too loud, they're always
stealing stuff, they're all illegal
immigrants, this, that, and the other.
And Marjorie is, is pissed off because she
got passed over for this promotion, for a,
uh, Colombian girl who hasn't been working
there as long as her got the promotion
and she is sure it's because she's brown.
Greg: Definitely not because of.
The fact that that woman, she said
in her own words that she asked
why she was passed up for the
promotion and they said this other
woman has better leadership skills.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Also, she's a fucking mess, as
we'll find out as the thing goes on.
Um, she's a lot.
I can imagine many reasons why somebody
might not have promoted this girl.
Um,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: but, you know, not
even knowing that she's racist.
we, we also meet, Jessica, who will
only be with us for a little while
in this movie, but leaves an impact.
Because she is the one of this group
who is dyed in the wool KKK, who works
for and writes on Stormfront regularly
who is like, a faux real faux real Nazi.
Like,
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: she said so proudly how
her daddy was a grand wizard.
Emily: God.
Joe: if I was doing, like, a nitpick
of this movie, one of my things with it
is I wish she was introduced a little
later and they, like, tried to, like,
lure you in a little bit with, like,
these are, people with horrible ideas
and things, but maybe there's, like,
something redeemable about these people.
And then, like, at that reveal,
and then you're like, oh, no, you
Emily: well I, I think that the
swastika kind of just, like, poured
the ice water on the whole, yeah.
Greg: The scariest pie in cinema history.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: I mean, as for, like, Jessica,
I feel like The fact that they introduce
her and then after the meeting she peaces
out, uh, like, she, she has four kids at
home and one on the way, she is bringing
a whole new horde of Nazis into the world,
uh, with her, teaching them, all of her
same shit, and that, when everybody else
decides that they're gonna go continue to
meet up and get some wine and drink and
do hate crimes that Jessica, who is the,
like, experienced hate crimer, leaves.
Jessica is not there to, like, goad
the rest of them into doing the
shit that they will then go do.
It's just, the four I assume,
late twenties, early thirties
somethings with the exception of Kim.
Kim's a little
Greg: of liked how the movie seemed to
be saying, like, people who are, like,
quietly racist, like, you know, and not
obviously racist, can be, and often are,
just as, if not more dangerous than the
people who are really obvious about it.
Emily: Yeah.
Joe: for sure.
I think the, uh, what was it?
The Marjorie character, right?
She's the one that was working
at the store and got passed
up for the promotion, right?
That was her.
So, like, there were moments of
what she was saying early on about
this, like, you know, her being
like, I live paycheck to paycheck.
I, I get Passover and
forgotten stuff like this.
And it's like that kind of stuff.
And I know the movies
like it made its point.
It was doing these certain
things when I was watching it.
And again, just a nitpick is like, I
wanted to see like a little more of
that, to kind of trick the tricks, the
wrong word, but you know what I mean?
It's a kind of.
Try to get people to be a little more
like, maybe sympathetic's the wrong
word, but to get this idea of like,
I can understand where this person.
is feeling this genuine frustration and
then someone exploits that because I mean
this is obviously we all know that about
white supremacy is these people who are
genuinely frustrated for real reasons and
then someone comes along And gives them
scapegoats, and it makes them feel better,
because oh, it isn't my fault, it's this,
and how that warps and, and turns people
into that, and, you might need a lot
more than an hour and a half to really
adequately address all of that stuff, too.
Jeremy: Yeah.
I mean Marjorie I think is is like
Jessica's is a person people know exist
But like in a distance somewhere like
she's not in the room with you necessarily
But like everybody knows a Marjorie
Everybody knows a person who like the
first thing that goes wrong in their
life They're like, obviously it's not my
fault, so it must be the racism, like,
it must be that other people don't want
to give me the promotion, not because
I'm, drinking and stealing and whatever
else she's doing throughout the movie,
but that, uh, that I'm white, that's why.
Joe: Hm?
Jeremy: yeah, everybody knows that
person, that person is on Fox News daily,
Joe: Oh yeah.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: about how they didn't
get into a nice college.
Greg: glad that the movie brought
like an economic anxiety element to it
partly because like, after she does her
whole speech, it's so easy to realize
like, oh, your problem isn't other
races, your problem is Capitalism.
Also but also you seem like
a complete mess of a person
who
would not be good at a job.
Joe: Yeah,
No, but, and I mean, we see that
all the time, obviously, right now.
You see that with people being
like, Oh, you know, it's the economy
is like rough and this and that.
And obviously there's truths to that.
And then it turns into, well, clearly it's
because of immigration or this and that
from people who if, you know, a lot of
them, if you drill into them and are like,
well, are you seeing any of these people?
No.
Are they affecting your actual job?
No.
is your job threatened, have you been
told by your work, look, you know,
we want to keep you, but, you know,
someone who, who just got here in this
country and just got, you know, their
visa said they'll do it cheaper, so
we got to fire you, it's like, no, of
course not, that has never happened,
Emily: yeah, that's
never really addressed.
Joe: obviously we're, we're seeing an
uptick of that, and, you know, which I
also think, Again, it's all worded here.
I'm like, I don't want to say
it pairs well with this movie,
but you know what I mean.
Emily: Yeah.
No, I mean, it's it's relevant a
lot going on in this movie and I
want to talk more about that too.
But um, Jeremy I just want you
to get through the recap because
we need to get through this
Jeremy: yeah, we're it
together, I promise.
Yeah so, they have their little racism
meeting, they're, you know, discussing
all these things for the future, they're
not going to be relevant to this movie
and, you know, they all decide that, you
know, they want to go hang out some more
after they get kicked out of the church
because the pastor shows up and is is very
politely, hey, you can't be here to Emily,
like, take this shit elsewhere, and, you
know, Emily begrudgingly rounds everybody
up to go, you know, back to her place.
I think, theoretically, that's
what they're going to do.
Um, they decide to, you know, make a
stop off at Kim's convenience store to
pick up some wine to take back with them.
The only person in the group that
doesn't go is super racist Jessica.
Everybody else packs in the van and
Kim's van goes back to Kim's store
to pick up some wine on the way.
They are having a good old time
in Kim's store, doing a little
light racism chatter, when, uh,
a couple of, uh, sisters come in.
What their racial identity is,
is never actually discussed
in the movie they, yeah,
Joe: Yeah, it's not
seriously discussed yet.
Jeremy: yeah,
they make a lot of accusations
about where they're from and
where they're not from and,
Joe: Yeah, and their
sexuality and all these
things.
Greg: yeah,
Jeremy: yeah, they accuse them of being
lesbians despite the fact that they say
they're sisters we also get sort of the,
the idea that Emily is the Scared of being
seen by one of these women she kind of
hides until these women who are making a
perfectly justifiable request, they get a
bottle of wine you know, while the store
is clearly open because they're checking
out these other women, uh, Kim refuses
to serve them and Emily sees a chance to
really fuck with them, so decides that
since one of them has said, you know,
they'll buy the most expensive bottle of
wine, that she will give them a, a cheap
bottle of wine and make them pay 300 for
it, and then when she actually produces
300, accuses her of being a prostitute
because she has 300 in cash and they
bully them around some more and mess
with them before eventually letting them
go, and then we sort of learn as they're
They yell back at the, white women at
the last moment that, Emily's brother
has, uh, been arrested, is in jail for
raping somebody presumably one of them.
I don't think they say for sure
but them or somebody they're
Joe: Yeah, them or someone that
they're friends with or something.
Yeah.
Like, cause they're aware.
They're very aware of
that having happened.
Emily: Yeah,
There's some, dialogue that reflects.
They're like, well, he would never
do that with them or whatever.
Yeah.
There's some,
some
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: specific stuff there.
Jeremy: that starts up sort of this,
thing that's going to be going on
for the rest of the movie where every
time somebody is like, No, it's fine.
Leave it alone.
They all amp each other up and
cheer each other on to go be worse.
Um, to go do more horrible things.
Leslie in particular is down for whatever.
Leslie, yeah, Leslie is game.
We're never really given an indication
early on how much racism uh, Leslie
is really holding on to and how
much she is just like, all right,
these three are my, my family now
and we're going to do whatever.
Like, you know, I'm going to put
them in a position where they
have to do what I want to do.
She will, she will manipulate Emily
in some very fucked up ways later on.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: and so they, they all.
They all talk each other into planning
a hate crime where they're all gonna
get back in the minivan and go to this
girl's house and fuck up some shit, steal
some of her stuff, burn her passport
so she can't go back to wherever she's
from, uh, or, you know, can't end
up staying because her, passport is
discovered to be missing or whatever.
At this point we meet maybe the only
white person that I feel at all bad
for in this movie, which is Craig.
Oh boy, Craig.
Craig is, Craig is married to Emily.
Craig tries to stop this.
Craig is like, hey, I know you're upset.
Like, I know, it's unclear whether they've
had a miscarriage or whether they're
just having difficulty getting pregnant.
Either one sort of seems popular from
the, or is possible from the framing.
But he's like, I know you, I
know we had a, bad visit with the
doctor and you're upset, but like,
we can't turn that into this.
This is a felony.
You will get, you know,
you can get arrested.
he proceeds to dress him down and the
line that, like, is one of the more
fucked up bits in this movie is where
she's like I know that I can keep living
my life knowing that my husband is a
pussy and knowing that like you wouldn't
stand up for me and do this thing.
I
can live like that.
Greg: more colorful
language than Pussy, too,
Jeremy: Yeah.
she goes up and down.
Like, she, she says much
worse and much more than that.
Emily: She does some very big homophobias.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Yeah.
Greg: I
Jeremy: rough and eventually Craig
is like, okay, I will go with you
guys if nothing else, just to make
sure that you don't get arrested.
Like, I will, he's
planning to be the lookout.
Um, and He sticks to that for a while, but
like, so they all break into the house,
they stick this woman's fucking chihuahua
in a cupboard, which is terrible.
Greg: just say, before we get into
the Chihuahua situation, I really
just thought Craig was such a
fascinating character for this movie.
Because, like, on one hand,
he's definitely complicit.
Emily: Yes.
Greg: And, you know, one has to wonder,
like, how long can you be married
to a woman with beliefs like this?
Uh, you know, it's not clear what
his beliefs are, but, like, clearly
he's married to an extremist.
Emily: Yes.
Greg: but, like, he is, like, the de
facto voice of reason in this movie.
he utterly fails, but, like, he's the
only one in that group about to do
something completely unhinged, who
is telling them all, you all know
this is completely unhinged, right?
And you will go to jail
Emily: Yeah.
Well, I don't, I never
saw him as like, innocent.
Like, I think he did share the beliefs.
Yes.
But, there's a difference in scale
where someone riled up, like, Emily
would have gone and invaded on January
6th and, Craig would have become a cop.
Like, that's sort of what
they their levels are.
Joe: yeah, I think we'll get more
into it after we're done with the wrap
up, but like, my takeaway from this
was that their marriage is probably
over after the events of this movie.
Emily: Oh, I would, well, a lot
of things are over, hopefully,
by the end of this movie.
Jeremy: who knows.
I mean, I don't know, I don't know if
anybody else had this reaction, but
I might, I had the thought of like, I
wonder if this is what Kellyanne and
George Conway's relationship is like,
because like, I can't, like, that's
always been impossible to imagine for me
what that is like, and like, there's a
part of me that I was like, is this it?
Is this the explanation
for that relationship?
Like,
Joe: yeah.
Jeremy: just enjoys being
demeaned and insulted.
I don't know.
but they, So they break into this house,
it's also notable that Marjorie is,
uh, hissed off that these non white
people live in a nicer place than
she does despite the fact that they
do mention that it's, uh, inherited
from their parents, which, uh, They
will continue to ignore throughout
in the ways that are comfortable and
convenient for racism to, call them
illegals and this, that, and the other.
If this house belonged to their
mother previously, then what the
fuck, does any of that make sense?
But it doesn't matter because it's
racism and it doesn't have to make sense.
They start off with just their, their
fang and step up, they're going to
find the passport, they're going to
steal their beer, they're going to
stick their chihuahua in a cupboard.
Kind of base level, horrible home invasion
shit, and then, uh, eventually, Craig,
Craig comes in from his lookout and is
like, We have to fucking go, this is
like, you cannot continue to do this
and still, like, get away with it And,
continues to be demeaned and, treated
like shit for suggesting that they
leave and cease this hate crime early
Greg: Well, we also haven't mentioned
the fact that they continuously
refer to the hate crime as a prank.
Emily: Yes.
Greg: Like, like, oh,
we're just having a little
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: which, first of all, mean, race
aside, just classic bully behavior.
Like, it's all good.
We're just having fun here.
Joe: Well, it's, it's gaslighting,
you know, it's like, why
are you, don't scold us.
We're not doing what you,
what we're clearly doing.
We're doing this other thing.
Jeremy: Why are you getting mad?
Emily: Yeah.
This is a problem with you, not us.
Jeremy: Yeah, it's a lot.
So they, uh, they continue to do all
this and at some point, Craig, here's
a car pull up and has them all hide.
And, uh, 1 of the women
who lives there comes in.
I believe this is.
Is this Anne that comes in first?
She comes in and, uh, is calling the dog.
The dog doesn't respond and she
seems to sense that something is up.
I don't know if she sees somebody in
there or just notices that something
is fucked up, but she makes the
good horror movie call that nobody
ever does in horror movies and is
like, something's fucked up here.
I'm leaving.
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: at which point they, they
go Craig into chasing her down
and pulling her back and, uh.
They keep telling each other,
or Craig more specifically, that
they're just gonna do this thing.
They're just gonna, scare her or whatever.
They're just gonna, make sure that she
doesn't go tell anybody, uh, they start
You know, taping her up like a hostage.
They start putting her in this chair, uh,
they start going through various other
things to intimidate and humiliate her,
at which point her sister Lily arrives,
and Craig is again sent to retrieve
her, and Drags her back down the stairs
into this house ties her up as well.
the women decide that the only way out of
this is to scare the shit out of them so
that they won't report it to the police.
And they decide to do that by
terrorizing them, humiliating
them in any way possible.
Including putting mayonnaise in their
hair and pouring food down and water
down their throat and, uh, taping
their mouths shut and everything.
A continuous string of insults
and attacks and things like that.
Uh, what they don't count on is
the fact that Lily is allergic to
peanuts, which they pour in her mouth.
She has an allergic reaction and starts
to convulse and foam at the mouth.
Ann tries to tell them, uh, tells
them where the, the EpiPen is.
And this is in one of the more insidious
sections of this, uh, Leslie goes up as
slowly as possible while pretending to
not be able to understand what Anne is
telling her, goes up to get the EpiPen,
brings it down slowly enough that, like,
Lily has stopped moving by the time she
gets there and then she's like, oh, it's
too late and throws the EpiPen aside.
Greg: One of the most
horrifying moments of the movie.
Emily: that was like, I mean, a
lot of this was evil, but that was
like, if any of those women had
any, like, excuse in their mind.
That they weren't doing a murder, or they
didn't know what they were doing, that was
absolutely out the window at that moment.
That moment was where, there
was absolutely intent to
do murder at that point.
And, uh, there's a lot of dialogue
that, that discusses that too, but,
um, yeah, let's get through this.
Jeremy: Yeah this is the point in which
everybody starts to freak out Marjorie
starts vomiting Emily Starts trying
starts trying to fight with Leslie.
Leslie is not gonna let anybody fight
with her She's on the edge of beating
the shit out of Emily by the time Emily
Realizes that she's made a bad move
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: is freaking out because she is
suddenly worried about her kids and the
fact that, you know, if she gets nailed
for this, they're not going to have a mom.
It's, uh, all going sideways, at
which point, like, they sort of
let Leslie take over, and Leslie
decides that the, uh, only way that
this is gonna pan out for them.
is that they stage it as a rape
attempt and that like, nobody will
ever suspect that women broke here,
break in here and rape these women.
And, uh, we do not see the entirety of
what happens in the scene, thankfully.
We, like, like I was saying, there's
some rough sound editing in this scene,
but we don't see what's happening.
Um, But we do know that she is
staging it to look like a rape, uh,
and in the process doing a rape.
Emily: Yes.
Jeremy: definitely a rape at this point.
And, uh, everybody is, is further
freaking out now, realized that
this the other sister is dead, that
there's no, no real way out of this
that doesn't involve killing Anne.
Emily specifically says
that she, she can't do it.
She can't make herself do it.
She is too, you know, she doesn't
have the willpower, but she knows that
Leslie does, so she's going to depend
on Leslie to do this, and Leslie is more
than game to do this as well as Emily,
as long as Emily agrees to model her
vintage clothes for her that she wants
to sell on eBay which Emily, agrees to.
So Leslie then suffocates Anne under a
pillow and they go find a tarp to zip
them up in and pack them in the van and,
take them gradually we get the whole
thing playing out as it's going on.
They take them to the lake and paddle
them out in a boat and throw the,
uh, the weighted down bag with the
two bodies into the lake and, Go back
on to shore, planning to go clean up
the house and that is the last we see
of them, and at the last moment, you
know, just before the movie closes and
surface is alive and still breathing
and that's the end of the movie,
Emily: Yeah.
Jeremy: and it is a fuckin rough
one it is a rough one to watch and
listen to, as I said, for that matter
yeah, and there's a, there's a lot
going on, so, uh, let's, Discuss.
Emily: so the one thing I really want
to talk about in this movie is the
dialogue because the way the dialogue
is so specific and how it escalates and
it's so human where you can hear these
people you know, egging each other on.
the little, like, insidious
micro aggressions that they
have towards each other.
That's an interesting 1, like, I think
it's Marjorie who is she's the 1 who
keeps saying that she's game and at
1 point, Emily shames her for her.
word choice, because
she sounds like an ape.
That's a racism thing there.
I mean, and, social policing
is a big part of this, and this
is something that is, you know,
outside of strictly racist circles.
Like, this is a toxic trait.
Lots of groups of women who are
insecure and, have a need to assess
their control over something.
I don't want to say relatable, but it's
an incredibly common thing that you hear.
If you're somebody who goes into this
and, you know, has read the reviews
of saying, like, this is made by
white people, for white people.
Yeah, it's made for white people.
This is absolutely made for white people.
. But I think that that is important to
see how a community that quote unquote
means well, or quote unquote doesn't
hate anybody is just as easily vile.
Jeremy: it's really interesting to me
the the sort of like characters that
they chose for this story because
like I said Marjorie is somebody that
everybody knows and she's her like primary
trait going into this is frustration
like she feels like she's failed and
if she can find this group of people
who are willing to say something.
It's not you, you're fine, you haven't
failed, it's the system that's failing
you, and we want to change that, then
she's willing to swallow a lot of
shit to go along with that, um, and
that I think is a thing that It's
very easy to see, like, happening
on the internet on a regular basis.
It's much easier to believe that
you've been cheated than to believe
that you're not good enough, or
that you've failed in some way.
And like, combining that with sort
of this, Emily's got this energy
of, of like, Righteousness, right?
Like that she is sure that she is right.
She is absolute in her conviction that
she is right about these things and
that she is protecting children and
that she is, doing the right thing.
Now a lot of that is fueled by her
own frustration with this, like,
knowledge that she is not able to
have the life she wants, right?
Like, she's not able to
have a kid like she wants.
And, you know, you add to that
sort of like, there's this
character of Kim who's afraid.
Like, Kim's just afraid.
That's why she has a gun, she runs this
shop, she's, always very, like, leery
of the kids that are there, the people
who are there, and she's even, you
know, in the later parts of the movie
when things are going really wrong,
she's driven to continue to do vile
things out of fear of losing her kids.
that, you know, she won't be
able to be there for her kids.
Oh, if, if it's this one murder, then she
won't be able to be there for her kids.
So why not make it two
and hide the bodies?
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: that is a very potent emotion.
And that I, I think is something
a lot of people feel in that same.
And, and then you add just sort of this
like powder keg of Leslie, who is somebody
who is like, Has the will to do the things
that are beyond the scope of some of them,
like, who, you know, will go ahead and
do the things that a lot of racists, when
faced with the opportunity to do a hate
crime, are too scared to do a hate crime,
Emily: yeah.
I don't think scared, because we have
Craig there and then we also have Jessica.
Yeah, Jessica's the KKK one and you
see the difference between a brutish
bully and an organized criminal.
Right Craig, I feel like he has been.
Through some things where he's like, okay,
I know how the system works a little bit.
you know, I know that this is not viable,
I can post on storm front and I can become
a cop and I can do these other things.
Utilize my influence that way, but,
this prank, I know is a bad idea because
of he can sort of see the situation.
He questions Marjorie or Leslie.
Leslie is the, the real issue here.
He has a, uh, especially,
like, immediately does not care
what Leslie says, but he only
cares about what Emily says.
And Emily is just so
incredibly abusive to him.
I mean, he's abusive to her, he hits
her, and all this kind of stuff, but you
can see, like, how the different facets
of escalation and how they interact
with these very, I mean, these human
characters, but also these very ignorant
characters, and the levels of experience
that these characters have, I should say.
That also comes out in the dialogue too.
Like, I think really that one of the
most important things here in response
to anybody's question of whether this
movie is supposed to be sympathetic
to these people is if you just watch
how these people treat each other,
we're not supposed to be sympathetic
to anyone except for maybe that kid.
and the victims, of course.
Jeremy: the true thing that really drives
that home to me is that in that early
meeting at the beginning, Emily is talking
about how much it's their job to, like,
build up their men and, like, to support
their men and that's, like, that's what a
proper white woman should be doing is, uh,
holding up this family and the society and
the, family is what's really important.
And then when she is, like, Faced with
a moment where her husband disagrees
with her, is abusive, and tears him down
intentionally, and like, attacks him
in a way that is vile, and designed to
undermine that same toxic masculinity
that she is claiming to want to like,
build up, that she's claiming to support.
So, you know, she immediately,
she knows what her weapons are,
and chooses when to deploy them.
Emily: Yeah, and making it more
toxic, like just completely
raising the toxicity level there.
Joe: I wish that, you know, again,
this is another small nitpick.
I kind of wish the movie went just
a little longer and we saw a little
more of what happened only because
the movie touches on the idea of.
People like the white supremacists we see
in this movie love authority and using
authority until it's an obstacle for
them and they tend to be, uh, you know,
react to it violently and it would have
been, it would have been interesting to
see a situation where like, like, what
do these people do who act like the law
and God and all these things are on their
side and when they're up against like
the actual authority figure of no, no,
no, like you have to go to go to jail.
Like they may have been able to
do a little bit more with that.
Maybe with with Emily's brother, but
like, like, I wish that element was
explored like a little more, which
again, it's an hour and a half movie.
That's telling us a lot, but,
you know,
Jeremy: all, it's done in real
time, so like, any kind of like
Three months later, six months
later.
I feel like kind of, uh, doesn't doesn't
go with the flow of the movie But I will
tell you I have no doubt these people
are ratting each other out at their
first chance
Emily: oh yeah, yeah,
Jeremy: is going to prison.
Greg: I've also gotta say, it really
bugs me that people assume that
this is just somehow an endorsement
Emily: yeah,
Greg: supremacy.
Jeremy: even think an endorsement
so much as like Oh, this is this
is white people telling other
white people like don't be racist
Greg: Yeah.
Jeremy: there's this is sort of
question of like who it's for right?
Joe: that that's a good point though.
yeah,
Greg: Well, I wasn't expecting to go back
to Berg's list, , um, for this, but hear
hear me out because.
Uh, because I, hot take, did not love
Schindler's List, it's objectively well
crafted, I'm going somewhere with this,
but I found myself not being as invested
in it as I expected to because I didn't,
I guess I should have known from the
title, I didn't expect Schindler to be
the protagonist of the movie, this non
Jewish super rich industrialist who,
you know, was the hero, you know, is
known for saving all those Jews, but
had it been more like something like
going on holocaust to f mouse, where
it is from the perspective of a Jewish
character, like that, that, that kind of
thing always felt more relatable to me.
So, you know, now that you mentioned
that, like, yeah, I, I can get how
certain communities might watch
this and be like, we already.
I don't know all this about, white people.
Joe: but but to that point though,
uh, and this is this is a problem
that we're not going to solve on this
podcast, but we'll we'll talk about
a little bit is this is a perennial.
This has been going on since the dawn of.
You know, media, books, you know,
literacy, all of that, it's like the
people that would probably benefit
the most from seeing and understanding
what's going on in a movie like
this are the least likely to know.
Go out their way to watch this.
and, and the people who are watching it
and maybe taking something from it or,
enjoy is, or maybe not the best word, but
you know what I mean, but appreciates it.
Like this panel discussing the movie.
We were already there.
I don't think a single person
here right now is like, I learned
something that I didn't know about
white supremacy going into this.
That's not a bad thing, I'm
not saying that as a negative,
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah,
I think there's, there's
a lot valuable about this.
Like, the director is, is on record of
saying that her message is literally, it
is impossible for you to kill all of us.
Like,
Joe: yeah,
Jeremy: is You know, that is a powerful
message in itself, but I think the thing
that I like the most about this movie
is that there are a lot of movies about
racism that are full of Jessicas, and that
the Emilies in those movies always figure
out the error of their ways late on and
are like, hey, racism is bad, actually
whereas the reality is that, like,
those people Those people are just as
dangerous as the Jessicas, if not more so.
Like, those people are the ones that,
you know are in a position to brainwash
kids who are in a position to like cause
real problems for people beyond just
to like, beyond a racism 101, you can't
swim in this pool, you can't use this
basketball court, like, throwing n words
out kind of character, like, these are
the real insidious and scary people that
you, the people that you meet each day.
These are the people in your
neighborhood, is what I'm saying.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: like.
I think there's a tendency for, like,
movies and people, white people, who know
these people, to, like, assume that, one,
they'll figure it out eventually, or two,
like, when the chips are down, they're not
really that bad of a person, like, they
wouldn't really do this thing, they're
really just concerned, they're angry,
they're worried, whatever, and they're
not bad people and, like, that's, you I
think those are the people that need to
see this movie, are the like, centralist
white people who are so sure that their
conservative friend, you know, that lives
next door to them and is super nice to
them all the time is actually a good
person, despite the fact that other people
are telling them otherwise, that like,
other people are uncomfortable around
this person, that like, there's a reason,
there's a reason black people don't hang
out with your friend, like, you know,
Emily: Definitely.
Jeremy: Yeah, because I think, and I think
this was sort of writ large with a lot of
the like, stuff with rape and abuse that's
been coming out through you know, the last
few years, that like, there are people
out there who will be super nice to you,
who will smile to you and shake your hand
and give you every opportunity and treat
you well because you're male, because
you're white, because you're, any number
of, of other things that they you know,
that they value, and they are the same
people who, will then turn around and,
run people out of town, treat them like
shit, abuse them, and when the chips are
down, do something horrible to preserve
themselves at the cost of other people.
Emily: Yeah, and they're the messy ones
that are more likely to do something
hideous even if they don't intend to.
I mean, I don't know if they're more or
less likely because, it depends on where
you are and it depends on who's involved
and things like that, but they're, I
should say they're just as, these people
are just as, as you said, dangerous as
the Jessicas, they're unorganized crime.
Is still crime and is still murder.
You know, it doesn't matter
who, what their intentions
were when they went into it.
But, uh, you know, and a bully is a bully.
And I think that's, that's the
important thing about this movie.
I think that's the takeaway for it and
why I think that it does, I don't think
that everybody who sees it already knows.
Because I think some of these,
these little details here and
there about how this like.
Good vibes only group of women trying
to support each other are also like
demons, the priest at this church
told them to fuck off, essentially.
I think that's an important point here.
The white male priest at the church
was saying, like, you have to get out.
Like, he was relatively polite for what
they were doing, but he also seems, like,
incredibly uncomfortable and scared.
Jeremy: Yeah, and, I mean, I
think, like, I think that's not
lost on me either, that, like,
This guy does see them,
like, he sees everything.
He sees their board that says they're,
you know, an Aryan sisterhood and this
and that and the other, and his reaction
is to just, like, tell them to leave.
Which is a good start, but
he basically then just turns them loose
on the community, like, he doesn't do
anything to stop them, he doesn't report
them, he's, he says, in fact, like, I
wouldn't want to have to report you,
or whatever, and like, that's,
ultimately, he, puts these women
just as much in the crosshairs as,
as anybody else in the community.
Emily: Yeah.
And there's so many, so much conflict
within the group about, like,
oh, we shouldn't track ourselves.
And there's this disconnect.
They're like, well, we're just doing a
prank, why do we need to act like spies?
You know, why are, what are we doing?
That's wrong.
What are we doing?
That's, when they obviously do know,
because especially like, Jessica's like,
you don't want people to track you and
Emily gets upset about that with their
like, little email group or whatever.
But then in a way, Jessica understands
who they are more than they do,
because they think that they're just
being innocent and trying to, you
know, applying the quote unquote facts
Jeremy: Yeah, let's not fuck around.
Jessica is part of a crime family.
Like, it just happens to be a white
supremacist crime family, but,
Emily: yeah.
I mean, that's Emily, like, after all this
shit and after making the Nazi pie, what,
still, like Does a seagull really quick
like she's, you know, she's never said the
word cut before and is like, oh my God,
like, it's, you know, a funny goofy thing,
Jeremy: Yeah, the, the, you're so
naughty about her doing a seaguile.
She says you're so naughty to Jessica.
I was like, that is,
that's fucking chilling.
Greg: They said it the way white
women talk about ordering fries.
Emily: yeah,
yeah,
Jeremy: helping.
You know, they're
getting,
Emily: I'm treating myself.
Greg: Yeah.
Emily: God and yeah, and then
going back to the, the priest.
That is such a, such a normal thing,
like, because people don't want, like,
no matter what, you're, like, you don't
want to have to have that conversation
with somebody, but that's a, you know,
and you don't want to, like, the fact
that he didn't say, hey, um, we should
talk about this or something like that.
But, like, he that was another really
important lesson in this movie is
that, you know, even though he was so
uncomfortable, he didn't want to have
the conversation and the fact that
he didn't have the conversation may
have You know, who knows, but it have
Jeremy: because he's a white man in power,
he doesn't have to have the conversation.
Emily: doesn't.
That's true.
Yeah, like, With that community too,
like, I imagine he's also seeing
these people every day and, you know,
and it had an idea of, you know,
how Republican or whatever they are.
Jeremy: Emily's are at church.
that character is at church every
week, two to three times a week.
Emily: yeah, yeah, yeah.
So then now he's seeing, like, Nazi
pies and he's like, in out of his depth.
Right.
And which that is one of the most
relatable characters in this movie is just
seeing that for me, especially because
if I'm in a situation like that, where
that's going down, I don't know if I
could be like, fuck all of you because
there's a bunch of them and they do have
influence, you know, in the same way
that you can see both of the sisters,
the victims, Try to figure out what to
do about the situation where they are
being assaulted, but before they're even
battered, the threatening posture of,
I think it was Marjorie at the door,
it wouldn't let them leave the fucking
supermarket that it's assault, like,
that's legally assault and that's putting
somebody into, like, under duress.
that situation, like, you want to preserve
yourself so it's a really tough call, you
know, the priest probably had a lot more
of an opportunity to do something, but
it's, you know, like, we all have to pick
our battles, and nothing is more true when
you're dealing with a group of bullies,
and especially if they're targeting
you because of your race or your, your,
you know, well, in this case, your
race, or your sexuality, because these
are definitely homophobic ass people.
Greg: You brought up an interesting
question that I'm now thinking, uh,
because you mentioned like, you know,
Emily's probably in that church,
you know, two or three times a week
what is she learning at that church?
What kind of sermons are being given?
You know, um, if she has such a close
relationship with them I know it's
just one of those kind of ambiguities
that the movie forces you to deal with.
Joe: Well, so there's, there's a
few things going on here, like,
um, to kind of pull what you were
saying before that the priest sort
of had this opportunity to be like.
You know what?
I'm not, like, he didn't
even have to confront them.
He could have just been like, Hey,
I'm just gonna put out a notice being
like, These people are straight up
white supremacists who are having a
meeting at this church and I'll own
it and I'm gonna come out and be like,
Maybe I can save face a little bit
and say, like, I wasn't fully aware.
But as soon as I was aware of just
how far it was, that doesn't happen.
Craig should have called the cops.
Emily: yeah,
Joe: When he left, he should have
called the cops and, and, you know,
and in a, in a selfish way, even it
could have helped him because the
fact that he didn't, he's definitely
going to be in a lot more trouble.
Now.
I don't think the police are
going to take too kindly to.
So you broke into the house with
them and you left them there.
And one of them had a gun, like,
Emily: yeah, yeah,
Joe: And I don't want to, you know,
again, I'm prefacing this very clearly.
This is not meant to be
victim blaming at all.
But the two girls who were
assaulted, it's also like, if
you're in a situation like that.
Either, you know, having to take care
of yourself too, because I, you know,
again, like, one of the things I think
that is like a warning that is something
that people should take away from this
is don't just assume that You know,
these white women will leave it there
and, and, not make it worse, you know, in
a situation like that, there, there are
options, even if you're not calling the
cops or something like that in a situation
like that, going over somewhere, uh, like
not going straight home or, you know,
sticking with a group of people, like,
you know, reaching out to other friends
and being like, Hey, this thing happened.
I don't want to be alone.
Like, you know, that there are.
Yeah.
Like, everyone on either, on any
side of this didn't think they
would go as far as they did.
And like, I think that's sort
of the danger and kind of
part of the message here too.
Yeah.
Emily: part, I think that it's not
a moral message or sort of like they
should have done this kind of message.
I think it's the fact that this
happened and like, you know, with
the, uh, the victims, like, you don't
expect something like that to happen.
You don't expect someone
to follow through.
You don't expect somebody to invade your
house Especially if they're just like
the woman from the wine store, you know,
and there's just a bunch of white women,
like, yeah, that would rattle me a lot.
And but I think that like,
I, I've everywhere I'd want
to go be home, you know?
And especially that their house,
'cause like the, the, their
decision was phenomenally stupid.
I mean, like, if we look at
it from an objective like.
Crime, you know, like, of all the crime
shit that we've seen on this podcast,
of all the stuff that we've you know,
whether it is romanticized or not,
like, this is obviously one of the
messiest, most like, traceable crimes
that
Joe: But
that's also what, and that's what makes
it work, because it's so realistic in
that sense, because of, that's what it
would, in a situation like that, If people
were going to break into a house or like
do those sort of things, like that's how
it would go in that kind of situation.
Like, Oh, we're being impulsive.
And after the fact, like, uh, I don't
know, let's, uh, just take towels
and, and wipe things and no one will
know we were, know, and all of that.
Like, yeah,
Emily: even though there's, like, broken
shit everywhere, and, you know, and
now you have an eyewitness, but, like,
You know, they were doing all this
thinking like, oh, we can just bury it.
And, you know, I mean, it's also very
I, the Emily character, I really felt
I could see the whole story of her,
like, her sad existence and her, you
know, bad decisions and her, like, just
vileness where she is very insecure
about not being able to conceive.
But she's also very, like, she was
somebody who's very, very privileged
and you know, maybe to the, and also
maybe abused in terms of, like, you
know, being told she wasn't good
enough at various points in her life.
But also you can see how, like, with
a second when something goes wrong.
She flips out and, you know,
that's partially privileged.
You know, I think about, like,
people, a lot of us when we think
about people being, um, unreasonable.
We say, Oh, they're sick.
And, you know, and I think about
the, this character and how kind of
sad, you know, you'd have this pity
and you have this, you know, like,
there's all these reactions to it.
And, I listened to a lot
of true crime podcasts.
And of course, we've talked about this
on the show a bunch of times with crime
dramas and stuff where you have these
killers who are like sick, or they are.
You know, they have a mental illness and
it's just really sad or, you know, like,
you're at a loss of what to do with the
reality of this situation, and I think
it's important that mental illness,
since it's 1 of our questions, how is
mental illness addressed in this movie?
It's not it's and it shouldn't
be, you know, like, if there is
a mental illness at work here.
It is nothing to do with the decisions
these people make, you know, like, none
of these people are going to get off
on a, like, they're not, none of these
people are going to a correctional
facility for the insane or whatever,
like, this is, you know, and a lot of
white people, especially a lot of, like,
centrist, liberal white people will hear
about this, things like this happening,
these kind of, these acts of racism
and hate crimes and stuff, and just be
like, wow, those people must be so sick.
And it's not a chemical thing, you
know, any much, any more than the
reaction that you get from being in
a community is a chemical thing, you
know, like, it's not, it doesn't have
anything to do with mental illness.
And, you know, we have terms like
sociopathy and, you know, psychopath,
psychopathy, which people throw around
a lot when they talk about killers.
And this is not, I mean, yeah, this is
like, perhaps something that a psychopath
would do, but these women are sane.
They're absolutely sane, and they're
absolutely aware of what they're doing.
And they are just like, like anybody
that decides to slip responsibility
at any second, they are responsible.
And in that way, like, they're anybody.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, they're
they're frustrated, sad,
scared, and interdependent.
Like, that's the only things that it
really takes to push them to this, and
I feel like, I don't know if you guys
have the sense of this from the moment
they break into the house, but like, from
the moment they break into the house,
this is the way things are gonna go.
Like, cause there's no amount to change.
of damage they can do to this
house and to these people's lives
that is going to satiate them.
There's like, nothing they can
do that's going to leave them
feeling that they're, you know,
that they've gotten theirs, right?
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: And there's no, like,
once, once they see them then, like,
they can tell themselves all day long
that they're just going to scare them,
they're just going to rough them up,
but they're never going to be satisfied
that these people that they don't view
as people, as humans are not going to,
you know are not going to turn on them,
are not going to lie to them to get out
of the situation, so like, they're, you
know, the, they're, like, in this case,
especially with this particular group,
like, the, you know, killing of these
people is inevitable, because they're
just, like, their own self preservation,
as much big game as they talk, is, is, is
more important to them than anything else.
Emily: yeah.
And part of the whole, like, in some of
their dialogue, part of their whole thing,
you know, as they were sort of feeling the
situation, the, racist women, as they were
feeling the situation kind of fall out
of control, as it inevitably did, a lot
of them were blaming the victims, being
like, well, they should have done this
and that, you know, and in any situation
like that That is, you know, you can't
expect somebody to act the way you want
them to act, and, you know, there's a lot
of, a lot of horrible things happen that
way because people want someone to do
something that, to, to control somebody.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean there are
several points in the movie where
they tell each other that they haven't
done anything wrong where they tell
this person We couldn't have known
that she was allergic to peanuts.
You haven't done anything wrong We
couldn't have you know done this any other
way like, you know, we're we're fine.
And I think that is like That is the
truest display of, like, white supremacy,
is this, like, idea that white people are
better than every other sort of person,
and if there's any sort of evidence that
they're not, then that means that those
people have cheated, that they've cheated
the system somehow, they've worked the
system, somebody has replaced them or
given them something that should have been
the, you know, the white person, so, like,
there's no way to disprove white supremacy
because it is not a logical idea, like,
because Any, any time that you like, and
in this case, I mean, they, they show
it throughout that like, any time that
something has gone wrong or, or something
is, is wrong, it's not their fault.
It's not something they did.
you know, the, the system is
somehow fucked up that these
people have done things wrong.
So like, I, I think that's an,
I think that's an important
takeaway from this movie.
Greg: Yeah.
Well, also, it's like, they complain
so much about Things that kind of
have nothing to do with them even
like, you know First of all, I
gotta say don't get me wrong.
This house was gorgeous I would love
to live there, but it's not like a
mansion or anything, you know, it's
it's it's kind of modest but every
item that they see in this house.
They're like, oh, well, how come they're
supposed to, how come they have that?
And like, oh, well, meanwhile,
I'm working this stupid job.
And it's like, they're not doing
any of this to be like, oh, uh,
that white lady who comes into
the shop sometimes annoys me.
So I'm going to like.
buy this random thing for my
home to show how much I hate her.
But like,
Emily: Or have this thing in my house to,
you know, that I inherited or whatever,
like, I just have this
Greg: yeah,
Emily: the house.
Greg: this narcissism of, like,
everything that's not white must be
a commentary or a reflection or an
inversion of what they perceive as
whiteness And it's like, no, you just,
no one's thinking about you that much.
Jeremy: the wine interaction, there's
the whole, like, they try to bully
them into spending money that they
don't think they're going to have.
And when she does have 300, it can't be
because she's good at her job, because
she's a waitress who, you know, has tips.
It must be that she's a prostitute.
It must be this thing, because she
can't possibly be good at a thing.
She can't possibly have money
that she's actually earned.
Like, it, you know, it, it doesn't.
It doesn't need evidence.
White supremacy doesn't need evidence.
It's a self fulfilling prophecy.
It's
Emily: Yeah.
Joe: From a film perspective as well,
before I forgot to mention this, I do
think they also did a great job having the
gun as like a red herring, because, you
know, when they break in, they have the
gun, you kind of jump to that conclusion,
like, someone's going to get shot and
no one actually gets shot in the house.
Other horrific
things happen.
Emily: No.
Greg: peanuts.
Joe: yeah,
Emily: out Peanut M&
Joe: but yeah, but that was a good,
Good, uh, good flip on that I think.
I, I think they pulled that off well,
Emily: Yeah.
No, I do like the, because the gun,
that's, it's a really good red herring
because the gun is usually so, we're so
familiar with that narrative from movies
to news, you know, someone gets shot and
I think that there's a, there's enough
saturation of that kind of narrative
that, you know, that also can desensitize
people to the, um, the just, the someone
gets shot narrative and they're like,
oh, well, they were just idiots with a
gun, you know, and like, the fact that
they had a gun made sense, the fact that
they didn't use it, you know, I think
was also a little bit more realistic.
Because these were also not the kind
of people that weren't aware of how a
gun works and, you know, that people
die when they are killed, you know?
Jeremy: Yeah.
I, I think it's, it's very telling
that like they have this gun and
that is often, like the way that
that bid is played in movies is like,
it's just a split second decision.
You know, somebody just, they have
the gun and they accidentally pull
the trigger or there's, you know,
this, this collision or whatever, and
the gun goes off and somebody dies.
Whereas like, they're very careful to
let you know in this movie that like.
Yeah, sure, maybe they don't know that
Lily has a peanut allergy, but She very
deliberately does not give her the EpiPen
like they And doesn't just get shot and
die suddenly like she really Hands on
smothers this girl with a pillow like
this girl who is tied up And cannot get
away, you know, she, first rapes her
and then smothers her with a pillow.
Emily: Yeah.
And even when they're like, doing all
this shit, like, putting the, uh, the
mayonnaise in their hair and putting
the food in their mouth and then close,
like, that, you can't, that is torture.
Like, they basically waterboarded
her with alcohol and M& M's, you
know, she could have choked anyway
without, like, a peanut allergy.
In fact, they were assuming that she
was choking, and then, like, have
somebody was like, oh, pat her on
the back, and you could also see the
disconnect there with the, you know,
the reality of the situation and the,
uh, groupthink that was also going on.
Not to really, overuse that term, but
you know, I think that's an important
element of this story is how, you
know, like, again, that community
vibe can become vile so quickly.
And, uh, you know, how an innocent
book club meeting can become murder.
racism never helps,
Jeremy: friends?
Emily: just racism doesn't help anything.
Okay.
I mean, I know we all
needed this reminder,
Joe: Finally, this many episodes in, we
get to it.
Emily: me, uh, sip my tea, hot take.
Jeremy: Violence
occasionally solves things.
Racism, never.
Emily: yeah, yeah, so,
Joe: in the comments is going to find
the one thing that racism can actually
solve, and we're all going to look silly.
Emily: Well, some people say segregation
is applicable to laundry, but I
think that that even is not as, uh,
that's my hot take, is that the way
that laundry works these days and
the way that washing machines work,
Jeremy: And there's no need for
segregation even in laundry.
Emily: yeah.
Jeremy: Alright, uh, guys,
do we think this movie's
Greg: in a weird way,
yes.
Emily: I think this movie
is absolutely feminist.
I think that this is an incredibly
feminist movie because it also shows how
fucking hideous these white women are
Jeremy: Yeah.
Emily: how they are to their husbands,
like, you know, because there's also the
narrative that you have racist wives and
they're like, oh, well, they're just being
abused and they don't know what they're
doing and all this kind of stuff again.
And then the fact that they are so.
The characters are so anti feminist,
Jeremy: Yeah.
Alicia made this great point
right after we watched it.
I was, I was saying something
about their group in the church and
their feminism while not feminism.
And she's like, Oh no, it's feminism.
It's just first wave feminism.
It's like power for these white women.
Like that's.
you know, what they're interested in.
They want to be able
to decide their faiths.
They want to be able to
decide what they're like.
and they're very specifically
specifically in, in this conversation,
like dehumanize women of color and talk
about them as, as animals, not being
human, not being feminine and female and
how, like, they're being white women.
Is standing up for feminine
for femininity, period.
They have this real, like, not to get
into a whole different topic, but this
whole, like, trad wife thing going on,
especially Emily.
Greg: sure.
yeah,
Jeremy: that, like,
Greg: absolutely worth the conversation.
Jeremy: yeah, is, is a lot.
But yeah, I think the movie itself is
feminist and that they do portray these
women as complicated as, as having them.
Yeah.
internal lives as having their own shit
going on and making their own decisions
based on like their own lives what
they've experienced what they've been
taught and told and what they are then
passing on to a new generation because
I don't think that can be lost in this
either is is how how much emphasis is
put both in Emily and Jessica's character
in the like passing this on to kids.
Emily: and Kim,
Jeremy: Yeah, Kim
a little less so, like, because hers,
hers is, she has kids and is racist,
whereas, like, you know, Emily doesn't
even have kids, she wants kids, but she
is invested in passing this racism on to
this, like, second grader that's there
and, like, reinforcing this idea of, you
know, him being superior to this adult
woman janitor because she is Latino.
Emily: yeah, well, I think, I mean, with
Kim, there were a lot of things that
she said in the meeting where she talked
about homeschooling and how they're
looking for, you know, alternative
education and all this kind of stuff.
Like, she's definitely, you know,
that kind of menace, but, uh, she's,
you know, not institutional the way
that Emily or Jessica are in terms
of, like, how she applies that.
But, it's still bad.
Jeremy: Yeah, I don't know.
Emily: It's bad.
Jeremy: No question that all of
the people in this movie are bad,
or all all of the, all of the
women in this club are bad.
Emily: Yeah.
Joe: well, there is this sort of bit
because with Jessica, there's this
weird kind of thing you take for
the movie being like the women there
who actually have the blood on their
hands from the events that took place.
may ultimately have done less harm
in the world than this person who has
this, like, real and she gets out, like,
scot free, because nothing's really
gonna happen to her, and she and she's
gonna continue, and more people I, the
implication I feel from that is, you know,
more people are going to suffer and die
because the people like her are too, you
know, too quote unquote smart or however
you want to describe it to, to get into
that kind of position and will continue
to allow others to, to fall into that.
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, she's, she's the one
who knows that she's a criminal.
And that they are criminals.
Jeremy: I mean, and
there's, you know, there's no question
that there's guys out there that host
radio shows and podcasts and hold
political office who will never see the
inside of a prison who have caused way
more death and suffering to, you know,
People of color and queer people and
everything then then these, you know,
four women even these, you know, four
horrible fictional women, uh, have,
you know, they've, they've killed two
people and that's, uh, that is horrible
and it is unforgivable, but you know,
in a lot of cases the, they are.
Those people are influenced and
taught and brought around by the
people who, you know, go back
home and write the newsletter.
Because, theoretically, Jessica's
still writing that newsletter
at the end of this movie.
She's at home working on it right now.
Emily: It's interesting because I think
about how just wild it is with Like,
just in general, I don't know, this
is, this is gonna be a little bit of a
tangent, but all of these politicians
sure sound like every single, you
know, I don't know, I don't know.
Maybe we should cut this out.
I don't know.
I was just gonna say, it's just funny
that a lot of politicians get, like,
don't, you know, just get off scot free.
And then, like, everyone thinks
that Charles Manson was, like the
biggest, baddest criminal ever when
he never actually killed anybody.
He just told some people to do it because
they were on drugs and also racist.
That was the whole reason that they
did those things is because they
were trying to start a race war.
You know, those people were insane.
Those people all were like.
Very insane and I think that's
what makes this more scary
is that these people are not.
But it's just like, that's something
that I think about a lot, especially how.
You know, I grew up with movies
like natural born killers and stuff
like that, where you have these
stories about these individuals.
Who are criminals and
sometimes romanticized, in
very racist communities, right?
Because then you have this, the bad boy.
Or, you know, the fringe
person or whatever.
And they're the hero but
nobody's told the story about how
heroic that Charles Manson was.
You know,
Jeremy: Don't get them started.
Emily: yeah,
I mean, some people on Tumblr, sure,
but like, and Twitter but, you know,
Apple finally did decide to tell
me that Henry Kissinger died today.
Joe: I understand them
wanting to be absolutely sure.
Jeremy: Yeah,
Emily: Henry Kissinger died.
Jeremy: out of it.
Joe: Yeah.
Jeremy: He's been
practicing chess for months.
Um,
Emily: anyway, I, so that was, that's my
Jeremy: yeah, I was, I was just thinking
about it as you were talking about that.
I feel like in some ways this movie is
sort of like 2023 white woman taxi driver.
Like it's got that same,
like, I don't know,
Greg: Well, it's
Jeremy: of
Greg: like Taxi Driver.
It's, well, it's not quite the story
of somebody being radicalized like
Taxi Driver, but it does show, I'll
say that it shows different women at
different stages their radicalization.
Emily: Yes, I think it's more
of a women, American History X,
you know, like that's, that's where I
think that like, you know, uh, Letterboxd
Greg: there's no, there's no
redemption arc for any of these women,
Emily: Yeah, which
I also, exactly, like
there's, this is not that.
Joe: Like, um, maybe, maybe
Craig has some sort of redemption
after the events of this movie.
Maybe.
But that, that's probably it.
Greg: Yeah,
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: you know, redemption arcs are an
interesting thing because it's gonna
sound weird, at heart, very Christian,
Emily: Mm
Greg: and and so, you know, again, to
bring it back to something like Maus,
like, I think what makes a lot of non
Jewish people or I should say, I should
say specifically Christian people,
uncomfortable with that book is because
there's nothing about martyrdom or, you
know, no, it's, it As Art Spiegelman has
said, like, suffering doesn't make you a
better person, it just makes you suffer.
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: and I think it is important
for there to be redemption stories.
out in the world because, you know, it
is possible for some people to realize
like, Oh, I am fucking up big time.
I'm gonna change.
So I'm not, you know, this
asshole for the rest of my life.
But it's also important to have
the stories of people who are
hateful, do something stupid.
evil and they don't learn anything from it
Emily: Yeah.
Greg: and they, and they
probably never will.
Jeremy: Yeah, I mean, I think, you
know, when we talked a little bit about
this, it was like like, This kind of
racism, especially white supremacy,
is, like, a lot of it is built around
insulating people from the idea of
redemption, like, you know, is backing
them up and continuing to tell them
they haven't done anything wrong and
continuing to say that, like, oh, no,
they're being fucked over by the system.
The system is to blame, You
can't seek, you, you can't find
redemption if redemption is not
something you're seeking, you know?
and I, I think that's very true of
the way that these characters are,
are framed in this movie, is like,
there's there's no point that if one of
them is like, hey guys, I'm out, that
like, that's gonna end well for them.
Emily: Yeah, and that's one of the more,
I think, like, unique messages that
the movie is, is telling us, because,
like, America, American History X has
sort of a rejection arc, but the ending,
spoilers is, you know, the violence is
just the violence they committed is not
something you can really escape from,
you know, and this is, I think this
is a bit of a clearer way, even though
there's not, we don't see the return
fire, so to speak in this movie which.
You know, it does require, like,
in order to see the, justice being
served for these people, you know,
we do have to trust the system,
which is, you know, always a little
dicey and in a narrative, but.
You know, I can see that happening here.
But, you know, I'm also
white in the system,
Greg: I, I, I, I'm, I, I'm,
rooting for that one woman
who they thought they killed.
Joe: That's the, part of it that I think
like the, I think the implication is
because she survived that they would
have, you know, very little difficulty.
Like, that's not to say, like, I, I think
that is an interesting sequel, right?
Like, the, the interesting elements
are how the town reacts to the news,
who they're supporting or disappointed
with and all of that, right?
I think clearly people would be going
down in that, but I think the interesting
part of it would be who gets the lenient
sentences because they're not all
going to jail for second degree murder.
They're just not.
So it that then becomes
really interesting story.
Like, oh, this, this, this, that, like,
this person is the one that goes away.
These aren't.
Some of them are, they're gonna be in
the community mulling around, they'll
be out on bail or whatever, and like
seeing how that all works, like,
there's an interesting story there, but
again, that's a whole, that's a full
another hour and a half
movie.
Emily: yeah,
Greg: you know, I am not actually
that optimistic about the
future of this fictional town.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: I think Leslie, who is a, who
has a previous conviction, is definitely
going to jail, and I think Emily and Kim
are rolling over on her immediately, like,
and, you know, doing it for a promise of
a lesser sentence or whatever they're,
they're gonna tell People that, oh yeah,
you know, her and Marjorie were the ones
who did the heavy lifting of this thing.
and, you know, because Emily is
a kindergarten teacher and well
regarded in the community and Kim is
a small business owner that, like,
they're probably going to get off.
Who knows where Marjorie
lands and all that.
I mean, you know, Leslie even says as much
in the movie that, like, Kim is friendly
with all the cops that come in, like,
you know, they're They're friends, they
know each other, they'll probably be fine
as long as, you know, they don't have a
witness or, you know, before they kill
anybody, when it's just like, their word
against, you know, these girls that they
invaded their place and beat them up,
Emily: yeah yeah, the big difference
with American History X that I felt like
kind of muddied the water there was the
fact that, In some people's view, the
redemption didn't matter because it's
still, they still got killed, you know,
But in this movie, we don't have that
kind of, I think that this is the fact
that they held back on seeing the results,
Jeremy: yeah.
Emily: Was a little bit better
because in, in the end, the, they
did not get what they wanted.
They did not get a clean, you know, crime
committed and hidden, you know, they're
not going to really get away with it.
They might still walk, but there are going
to be consequences for their actions.
And that's, you know, the.
Issue that got them into this mess
in the 1st place is that they did not
expect consequences because they were.
You know, they had their various
ideas of who they were and what their
worth was and what they deserved.
That were tied into, you know, their
racism and their personal frustrations.
There was a homophobia in the movie.
There, you know, we,
I
think we
talked about.
Greg: homophobias.
Emily: Oh
yes,
yeah, let's be real.
Joe: There, there's the one directly to
the two sisters that, the implication,
and there's just, there's also just
all the slurs but yeah, I think that,
that's the one, like, physical, In
person confrontation, there was just
the I guess technically it's, with,
you know, Emily and Craig, there's
also, I guess there's like two in
person, like, I'm trying to think,
yeah but yes there's, that's a lot, I
Greg: There's plenty for one movie.
Emily: Yeah, well, and Emily, Emily fully.
Commits to the homophobic.
Shaming of of Craig's masculinity.
And says several F words to him,
Greg: Several different
homophobic F words.
Emily: there, well, there's
a lot of different, there's a
lot of,
Greg: Like,
there.
were slurs in this movie I
didn't know people still used.
Joe: Oh, yeah, for, for sure.
Emily: yeah,
Jeremy: Yeah,
and I think.
that,
there's very little chance that,
like, Leslie, in the situation she's
describing, having been in prison
and being part of, like, a gang there
that feels like family, there's very
little chance that there wasn't,
like, some sort of sexual something
there, and, like, that, you know, that
doesn't stop people from continuing
to be, you terrible, uh, homophobes
when they get out of prison because,
you know, that's different, I guess.
Emily: It is yeah, there's a it's,
that's another whole suitcase that
I really don't want to unpack, but,
um,
Jeremy: there's so many,
so many suitcases in this.
Emily: Yeah, this is all
fully loaded.
Yeah.
So,
Jeremy: proud of that one.
Uh,
what does that leave?
Class and race, which are sort
of inexplicably, or inextricably
tied together in this,
is basically all we've been
talking about the whole time.
Greg: Yeah, I, I, that,
that, that's the whole movie.
Jeremy: Yeah.
the whole movie is about class and
race and how they intersect, and
Emily: I do want to reiterate that
I like that you have races of maybe
different classes although they may
not be as different as think they are.
Jeremy: yeah, there's some thoroughly
Middle class and upper class, upper
middle class racists in here and then,
you know, some less, some little down
on their luck racists in here as well.
Um, lower middle class to
you know, decidedly poor.
Yeah.
Uh, I guess that, uh, that leads to
the question of, uh, guys, do you
recommend people watch this movie?
Greg: Yes?
Question mark?
For real, I, all the, Triggers, you
know, like, don't name the triggers
for people, because that would be
spoilers in some cases, but just assume
if there is a common trigger, it is a
Jeremy: I.
Greg: in this movie.
Jeremy: I'm going to argue
with that one a little bit.
I would just say, like, you
don't ever want to, I don't think
spoiler warnings apply to rape.
Greg: okay, that's,
Jeremy: and,
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Jeremy: um, yeah, I don't think, like,
sexual violence is something that people
need to worry about being spoiled for.
I think
Greg: Okay,
Jeremy: warning out there up
front, especially,
Greg: that, is extremely fair and,
uh, my mistake for being a little
bit caustic about the whole thing.
Jeremy: yeah, I, I
do think, like, that I almost think,
like, the racism isn't necessarily,
like, something you, hmm, I don't know, I
don't know if it's something that people
need to be cautioned about, if it's
something that should be spoiler warning
or not, because I do think that, like,
high reveal is, one, so clear, like,
at the point that you see that, you're
like, oh, this is about racism, before
any, like, horrible racism has already
happened you know, and also, like, I think
there is some benefit to people going in
not knowing that's, like, that this is a
character that they should hate from Jump.
Greg: I,
I agree.
Jeremy: you
Emily: yeah yeah, I mean,
I would definitely only recommend
this movie with that caveat
of like, is this, you know,
yeah,
Greg: I have kind of have like a blanket
thing I say for movies like this that are
very good and worth watching, but very
difficult to recommend because you're,
you're kind of gonna have a bad time.
Emily: yeah,
Greg: just say make sure you're
in the right state of mind for
this movie because it is a really.
It is a really hard watch and, um, if
you're not prepared for the level of
intensity and hate and violence, like,
and even, like, unspoken, unshown violence
yeah, that's just something you have
to be aware of before you walk into it.
Emily: yeah, I mean, it definitely
would come with caveats.
Like, if my spoiler warning for this movie
was, you know, other than like, this is
what it's about is, it's also very real.
And, you You know, it's, it may
be listed with American History X,
but this is not the same kind of
tale that American History X is.
This is this is not that.
And, you know, even without, like, if
I knew somebody who did would, like,
think this movie was interesting or
whatever, like, who would definitely,
like, appreciate this movie, you know,
that's something where I'm like, And even
people who watch American History X don't,
like, want to watch it a lot, you know,
Joe: Yes.
Emily: know, I know a lot of people
like, you know, Darren Aronofsky,
but if you're watching Requiem for
a Dream, like, that much, stop,
Joe: I watched it once.
Greg: I still haven't seen that one.
I love Aronofsky, but, uh Yeah,
Joe: good and you only
need to see it once.
Jeremy: watched it once.
I made the mistake of
watching it by myself.
By the end of it, I was sort
of, like, on my bed in the
fetal position watching movie.
Emily: yeah,
Joe: Oddly enough though,
one, one movie like that that
I've seen twice was, uh, Kids.
Emily: I haven't seen
that, or have I seen that?
Joe: That's, that's another one of those
like you really only need to see it once
but I happen to be with a group of people
and a bunch of them didn't see it and
that's how I ended up being like, alright,
I guess I'm buckling up into this again.
Greg: I haven't seen that one, but I
did first hear about it from my, the
phys ed teacher that was also my health
teacher in eighth grade, and he was like,
well, if, if it was allowed, I would
show you guys this movie called Kids.
And, uh, I know, from what I've
heard about that movie, I'm not
sure it would be a good idea to show
that to a bunch of 14 year olds.
Emily: Yeah, like,
there's some of these are
good homework for college.
Like, this is a college class.
Like, I think this is a really good
discussion group college class movie.
Or like, you know, any sort
of discussion group movie.
It's really great.
I'm glad I'm doing it now.
It's not a movie.
It's not like.
It's not Bram Stoker's Dracula
where you can watch it over and
over again and, you know, it doesn't
matter what state of mind you're in.
Or what, like, how much alcohol
you've had, if there's something
enjoyable there, you know?
Joe: I want that to be the
pull quote on the next issuing
of kids right on the front.
It's no Bram Stoker's Dracula.
Emily: I mean, that would be,
that would be a true statement.
Like, that would be a, yeah, that would be
undeniable fact.
Yeah, I mean, if we're gonna do
things like that, we might as well
just, like, buckle in and be like,
well, you know, Requiem for a Dream,
ain't no, you know, Shark Tale 3.
Um, which is true, I'd like to think.
I haven't seen Shark Tale 3.
I don't know if there's a Shark
Greg: Is there a Shark Tale 3?
Joe: don't know.
I
don't know if
Emily: assume.
Greg: one, which I never saw.
Emily: Uh, yeah, like, I never saw it
either, but like, I know that those
movies just, like, bleed sequels.
Like, yeah they create sequels, like, the
way that some like, some sea creatures
propagate themselves by exploding.
Or just, like, disintegrating themselves.
Into gametes.
Anyway, I'm sorry.
I brought that up.
Um,
Jeremy: Yeah, I
just
I just want to say We said Requiem, I
have a list here, we said Requiem for a
Dream already, Hard Candy, Boys Don't Cry,
Grave of the Fireflies, Hereditary,
Audition, American History X,
Clockwork Orange, Soft and Quiet,
like, these are all movies that are
incredibly well made, and have a lot
to say, and are, are, I think, it's
difficult to argue that they're not
good, but, I cannot imagine Just off
handedly recommending them to anybody.
I can't imagine
somebody it's like it's like lighting
a bomb and being like here Yeah, like
I I can't imagine there There are very
few people that I can imagine even
with caveats and everything like saying
you should watch this movie I can
imagine saying this is a good movie.
You might want to watch it But not
like, not just telling them it's
something they need to experience
because it's, it's a rough one and I,
I wonder, I do wonder with this movie
if there's people like watching this
that are like, Not necessarily seeing
themselves, but being like, Oh, I had a
second grade teacher who was like that.
Like I, Oh my God.
Like maybe, you know, I think, I
think maybe I've been indoctrinated
by white supremacists, you know, um,
Joe: I think there is a good chance of
people maybe seeing this and being like,
Maybe that really racist co worker of mine
who says things and does this is this.
Maybe I should have a
conversation with this person
Emily: Yeah, or maybe I should report what
they say, you know, where it escalates.
Joe: But, um, yeah, this is very much I
feel a, I would categorize this as a, um,
Jeremy: or feel good
Joe: recommend with.
Yeah, yeah.
Feel good movie.
Breezy.
I'd say it's breezy.
But, um, I would say this is
a, um, a recommend with care.
A.
The situations you're recommending this
are you are physically in the same room
as the person talking about things and
something comes up or maybe this movie
comes up or movies that are like talking
about those specific subjects and you go,
Oh, there's this movie if you haven't seen
it yet, or Oh, you know, I saw that movie
and you can feel the person out in person
and you could, there could be a little Q
and a like, That's a good situation too.
This is not really one of
those, like, blanket recommends.
I mean, you know, yeah, it's a
I wouldn't, like, go on Twitter
or Blue Sky or Instagram and be
like, I just want something quiet
and totally recommend anybody.
I'm not saying anything
after that sentence.
Emily: Yeah, I mean, like, I was tempted
to go on, like, one of those and just say
that I'm watching this and thinking of
changing my name, and that was, like, it.
But, you know, I also, like, I posted
this on our little our little group chat.
And Ben was like, oh, what
do you want to change it to?
And I'm like, oh, no, this
has to do with the movie.
I'm not actually serious, but, you know.
Sometimes I'm like, maybe
I shouldn't be Emily.
Like,
Greg: majority uh, of Emily,
in fact, maybe the entirety of
Emily's I've met in my life have
been absolutely lovely people.
Emily: thank you.
I know a lot of good Emily's too.
And I, again some of them have changed
their name just because there's so
many of us, but, um, and you know,
some of them have had other reasons,
of course, but I'm not worried
about, I've lived really deep down.
I'm not worried.
And neither should you, Emily out there.
Who's also like seeing this movie and
is mortified by the use of your name.
Like, you know, it happens to all
of us, it comes for all of us.
Unless your name is like well actually
it will come to all the Sephiroth
Kenskys that are going to be born of my
generation and all the kids named Naruto.
It'll come back around.
There will be a movie about this shitty
kid, the shitty bully kid named Naruto,
because we've forgotten the original.
Connotation of Naruto.
I mean, if humanity lasts that long,
Greg: I don't think I've seen
a, uh, a fictional, um, villain
named Greg in, uh, in media yet.
Emily: I think there have been,
but it depends on the, it's, it's
very specific to certain genres.
Greg: I feel like it, it,
it would have to be in like.
One of those kind of, like,
yuppie thrillers with Michael
Douglas from the 80s or early 90s,
like,
Emily: The words yuppie thriller
Are so, like, that really
paints a very specific picture.
Greg: well, I, I just
saw, I just saw Fatal Attraction for the
first time the other night, and I was
shocked because I went into it thinking it
would just be, like, trashy fun at best.
Like, I never really heard people
talk about this movie that much
other than just like parodies,
but hey, here's like a hot take
from 35 years ago Fatal Attraction,
legitimately a really good movie,
like not, I am not being facetious
at all, that's, we're going off
topic here, but I'm just saying, um,
Joe: Oh, we are?
Greg: yeah.
Jeremy: well,
Emily: I mean,
Joe: I've been talking about
fatal attraction this whole time.
Yes.
Greg: The bunny was a Nazi,
Jeremy: they had to boil it.
Emily: so do we have, do we
have other recommendations
other than Fatal Attraction?
Greg: Well, if, you want to see
more white women being mean,
uh, you can watch Mean Girls.
Uh, no, seriously though I, Mean
Girls was great, don't get me
wrong, like, you should absolutely
watch Mean Girls if you haven't.
Um, but, um, I'm actually going to
recommend a comic book, if that's okay?
Emily: Yeah.
Yeah.
Greg: Yeah.
Um, so I imagine if you've just
watched this movie you, you know,
might want to explore more about,
like, kind of the history of white
supremacy in America, but you also
desperately need a palate cleanser.
Um.
What I would recommend to you
and to many other people, this
is actually something I, I would
recommend to literally everyone.
Superman Slashes the Klan
by Gene Luen Yang Gurihiru,
and I believe Jas Cheng.
Because it's So, so just a
little background context there
was a Superman story in the
1950s called, uh, Superman vs.
the Clan of the Fiery Cross, which
was obviously a KKK analog but it, I'm
giving the very short version of the
story, this story did so much to make
the KKK look bad, and, that actually,
like, tangibly hurt the KKK in real life.
So this is kind of Gene Yang's
retelling of that story.
It's still set in the 19 vaguely the
post war period, but you know, it
has some more modern sensibilities.
You have Gurihiru which is just an
unstoppable art team and, like, It really
is the kind of book where I'd, look, I'm
not a parent, but I'd imagine, you know,
if you have a child who you feel is ready
to, you know, learn about hard things
like, you know, white supremacy and hate
and stuff like that, this is a really good
book to use to introduce them to that.
And again, it's, it's not
nearly as dark as this movie.
So, you know, you do have.
You know, teenagers learning
to stop being racist.
And it's also just a really great
take on a young Superman, too.
Uh, it's pretty much, I, when I
reviewed it a couple of years ago
for The Beat, called it the best
Superman story since All Star.
Yeah, just just read it.
Emily: Will do.
Jeremy: Fantastic.
Joe, what have you got?
Joe: Well, um, I think after
that, I would still suggest,
you know, Dial M for Murder.
It's a fun movie about,
uh, a botched murder.
But, um, if you want to see a good
movie that you'll never want to
watch again, where a white girl
gets what's coming to her, I'd
also recommend Dancer in the Dark.
Emily: Jesus.
Greg: actually never seen that one.
Jeremy: Add that to my list real quick.
Emily: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.
Don't forget.
You like musicals?
Why don't you try this one?
Um, that's I'm not serious.
Please don't.
Um, yeah.
Ooh, Joe.
Coming in hot here.
I'm here for it.
Jeremy: is we're creating a playlist
that's like the fundamental opposite
of those like try not to laugh
youtube videos it's like all right
Emily: to
Jeremy: now now that you finished
up schindler's list follow it
up with grave of the fireflies
Emily: God.
Oof doofa.
Okay, so I have recommendations too.
Jeremy: for it
Emily: One is related and one is not.
If you want to see a show a media
thing about White people being
really dumb and, like, Insidious with
their racism, um, But in this case,
it's a very, very different take.
There's this new show presented to
us by 824 and it's called The Curse.
And,
Greg: that.
Emily: yeah, it is like, it's about a
white couple, a privileged white couple
in New Mexico trying to host a reality
show that they're calling Flip Anthropy.
And they are trying to quote unquote help
disadvantaged members of the community.
And it's basically like the
most, I think it's slightly more
cringe than reality television.
Actually, it's not as bad to me
because it's, I mean, it's fiction
and it's also has it's like
surreal elements, which is fun.
Music, awesome.
But yeah, it's it's
definitely worth a watch.
I wouldn't binge it when it comes with
that caveat, and it does get, like,
very, you know, appetite suppressant
in its own ways, but it is a comedy
and it is about how these people are
disastrous and how they're well meaning
and they just continue to be disastrous.
And then if you want something that's
a palate cleanser from this, it's I
also just recently began Scavenger's
Reign which is a new animated, if you
have Max it's a new animated kind of
psychedelic drama show, and it's like,
it's basically No Man's Sky and Fantastic
Planet, but like this new incredible,
crazy, weird show, and I, I live for it.
It's my, it's my shit.
It's my jam.
So that has nothing to do with this.
Other than, it's a good thing to watch
that has nothing to do with this.
That's like, maybe I want to actually
take an edible and forget what just
happened and watch, you know, these
weird mushrooms do things to people.
Joe: the name of that show again?
Emily: Scavenger's Reign.
Joe: Scavenger's Reign.
Okay.
Emily: it's a Titmouse production.
And I know that they've
been doing some cool stuff.
So the, that one is on, I
think it's max exclusive,
Jeremy: yeah
Emily: but
Jeremy: max original
Emily: yeah.
Joe: Well, Ben has Mac,
so I'll just probably
Emily: for it
Joe: this.
Good.
Emily: especially where you are.
I'm not going to say do them, but
I will say that you don't really
need to with this show because it's
just that psychedelic and cool.
So, uh.
Enjoy.
Jeremy: Let's see.
I have been playing a 20-year-old
video game that I dearly love.
I had never played it before 'cause I
didn't have a PlayStation three or four.
But now that I have five, I've been going
back and playing things that I missed.
I have been playing
shadow of the Colossus,
um,
Emily: That
Jeremy: is,
Joe: Yes.
Jeremy: like, it has
Emily: the, that is those those video
games, like that and Ico and like the
other one with the griffin or whatever,
like that is the perfect description of
the kind of games that that studio makes.
It's like, this is by artists for artists.
Jeremy: Cause it's like, basically
somebody was like, What if Zelda,
but I didn't want to hire somebody
to write a story, or design dungeons,
or have other creatures that you
have to fight, or things that you
have to pick up, or quests, really.
What if it was 100 percent boss battles?
Um, and the boss battles are so well
designed, because it's, it's just, like,
you're a, this is, the entire plot is,
You're a guy with a sword on a horse
that brings a dead and or dying princess
It's a little unclear somewhere between
life and death to this weird temple and
you're like, hey I heard if I brought
her here that you could bring her back
and this mysterious voice is like Sure.
All you have to do is kill these enormous
Colossuses that live in this valley.
There's 16 of them.
They're the size of skyscrapers.
You don't know what a skyscraper is
because you're a little link type of guy.
But you know, you're gonna have
to kill these things that are, you
know, 20 times your height that you
literally have to climb just to fight.
And like, it's, it, the
design is incredible.
The controls are a little bit annoying
because they're a little simplistic
in some places, but like, um, You're
not always looking or going quite the
direction you want to because they're
like, But look how fucking cool this is.
Um, and you're like, but I
can't see where I'm going.
And they're like, yes,
but it's hot, right?
Like, This thing, the stuff you're, you're
not seeing what you want to see, but the
stuff you are seeing looks great, right?
Especially for now, a
20 year old video game.
It was released in 2005.
So like
Greg: Yeah, I remember playing
the demo of that from PlayStation
Magazine and really loving it,
Jeremy: My, my memory of it is watching
the Adam Sandler film Reign Over Me,
uh, where it was used as like a, a
like, comparison for like these big
problems with like addiction and
stuff that he was facing, you know,
fighting these giant colossuses.
Uh, yeah, he's playing
that game in Reign Over Me.
Greg: do you recommend Reign Over Me?
Jeremy: I don't know.
It's been a while since
I watched that movie.
I remember liking it at the time.
But I am a sucker for like any
movie that at that point it was
like video games are good actually
Emily: I just am still trying to get
my head around the fact that there
was an Adam Sandler movie that used
Shadow of the Colossus in plot.
Jeremy: yeah, as a, as a metaphor in the,
plot for.
other shit he was dealing with.
He's trying to beat Unstoppable Giant
Colossuses and they're like decidedly a
metaphor for big things he's dealing with
Greg: Are they a metaphor for, dare I
ask if they're a metaphor for anything?
Soft and Quiet.
Emily: video games?
Greg: No, Shadow of the
Colossus specifically.
Emily: Well, you know, I could
tell, I could say some stuff, but I
think it would, it would definitely,
um, spoil Shadow of the Colossus.
Greg: Uh, okay.
I would love to play it sometime.
Like, it's one of those demos
that I played and I'm still
thinking about it today.
Jeremy: yeah, I mean that's, that was
the case for me, is it was like something
that I saw and I was like, that looks
cool, I'm gonna play that, and then like
I didn't have a PlayStation for, you
know, 2 And so, like, it's on PlayStation
Plus, if you have that, it's free on
there, it's one of the games you can play.
So, like, I finally after working my way
through Ghost of Tsushima I decided that
that was, like, the next PlayStation
title I was going to take on, and,
uh, it is really great even 20 years
later, so, not all games last 20 years.
Emily: Yeah, it's a real
Panzer Dragoon, that one.
I actually don't know if Panzer
Dragoon last, was that last thing,
but also you need, I think you
need a Saturn for that, which
Joe: You probably do.
Emily: definitely didn't last.
Joe: Yeah.
Jeremy: Yeah, so, I mean, I was struggling
over what to recommend because I feel
like I don't want to recommend anything
that's too closely related to this movie.
So it was either that, or Follow
the House of Usher, which I just
finished with Alicia this last
week, but I think we've talked about
Follow the House of Usher already.
Which is great, and has a phenomenal cast,
and, uh,
Joe: God.
The cast is fantastic.
Jeremy: Yeah, like all of my favorites
from all of the other you know, Netflix
shows and a few extra baked in there.
Mark Hamill?
Joe: He
Emily: right, that's the one,
that's the new one that has a
like, is Elijah Wood in there?
I can't remember.
Jeremy: He's the only one that's not.
Everybody else is in it.
Elijah Wood is not.
It's just, he's the only one.
Yeah, it has Carly Gugino and has
Bruce Greenwood, Mary MacDonald,
Rahul Kohli it's Nia Miller, who
I love in, uh, the other one of
these, the Haunting of Bly Manor.
It's just like my favorite part of that.
Yeah, because it's another Mike Flanagan
series, so it's got a lot of the,
like, haunting, uh, people in there,
but also, like, Mark Hamill playing
Arthur Pym, who's their, like, lawyer
for this group in there, who is just,
like, hard ass, amazing character.
And, of course, Kate Siegel,
who I love in all of this stuff.
Emily: what I hate.
Greg: I am only like six out of eight
episodes into, uh, The Haunting of
the Louse, but I'm enjoying it so far.
I like the other Mike Lang
and stuff I've watched.
I,
Jeremy: film I haven't
watched is Midnight Club.
I had a whole, I did a whole rash of them
last year where I watched Hill House and
then Bly Manor and then Vampire Island.
I can't remember the name of that movie.
That show.
Vampire Island.
um,
Emily: really called Vampire Island?
Jeremy: no, it's about
an island with vampires.
Um,
Joe: really good title
for something though.
Jeremy: Vampire Island.
Great title.
Greg: I, I'm imagining like
like a resort
Jeremy: it.
Emily: Yeah, I'm, I'm wanting
to see that reality show.
Like, that's a reality show I'd watch.
Jeremy: Welcome to Vampire Island.
Have you seen Midnight Mass, Emily?
Emily: Yes.
Jeremy: Okay, alright,
Emily: Yes.
I've seen part of it, but yeah,
that's also like a, that's Oh,
that's what you're talking about?
It's Vampire Island?
Jeremy: Vampire Island, yes, I
Emily: Oh, okay.
I was like, I wonder if he's No,
he can't be talking about And then,
yeah, no, that's Vampire Island.
Yes, I watched some of that.
Jeremy: Yeah, I should say.
Mike Flanagan movies, uh, and TV shows.
Sure, watch them.
Hush is good.
You
Greg: Love Hush.
Jeremy: is good.
Bly Manor's great.
Midnight
Greg: Dr.
Sleep is good.
Jeremy: Yeah.
Greg: but I like it.
Jeremy: Gerald's Game,
another rough watch.
Weird ending, but it's
Stephen King, so that's why.
Um.
Great movie, weird ending.
Emily: Steven.
Jeremy: oh, Steven.
I love Hush, we still need to talk
about that on here at some point.
Yes, fantastic.
Alright Craig, do you want to let people
know where they can, uh, find you online?
Find out about what you're up to?
Greg: So I, I haven't like
deleted my Twitter entirely, but
I did take it off my phone, so,
I
haven't, I haven't
tweeted in like a month.
So, um, I'm basically
not using it anymore.
I also put myself I, I locked my account.
But if you're cool, I mean,
you can still follow me there.
I'm not gonna do anything for a while.
The better place to
find me is on Blue Sky.
I'm like, at Greg Silber or something
there, and, uh, I'm definitely at Greg
Silber on Instagram if you want to
find me there too and like I said last
time I was here, I can't talk about
it yet, but I'm working on a book,
there is a publisher, it will happen at
some point, I'm Keep it on your radar.
It will come out eventually,
but I can't talk about it yet.
Emily: Well, congratulations
on the the NDA progress there.
It's good.
Yeah.
Nice.
Joe: Sure on uh, Twitter and Blue Sky, I'm
at Joe Corallo, that's J O E C O R A L L
O, and on Instagram it's at CoralloJoe.
And uh, the latest offering for me is
the uh, King Arthur and the Knights of
Justice YA graphic novel, it's gonna be
out March 12th, which you can pre order
now through Mad Cave's uh, website,
it's through their Maverick Impro.
Jeremy: Fantastic,
Greg: Yeah.
Also, I just went on my, my blue sky
and, uh, yes, it is just acrexilver.
bluesky.
social.
Emily: Nice.
guys.
Jeremy: And, uh, Emily, what about you?
Emily: Beg them off.
Twitter, Blue Sky, Tumblr Mega Underscore
Moth on Instagram, of course, and
then the Patreon, which is Mega Moth.
But after you go check out
Progressively Horrified on Patreon,
you know, you can check me out too.
Jeremy: And I am Jeremy
Whitley on Blue Sky and Tumblr.
I'm jrome58 on Twitter and Instagram.
I am currently we have the, uh,
the second volume of School for
Extraterrestrial Girls is out now
from myself and Jamie Noguchi.
It's exciting.
We're excited about it.
We're working on the third volume already.
So we're, you know, hopefully
won't be three, three years
in between volumes this time.
But you know, our press got bought and
there was a pandemic and everything else.
So, so the second one is out.
The third one is, is coming,
uh, also in February.
We have, uh, I have my next book with
Titan, which, um, I wrote and Megan
Wong illustrated, uh, which is, uh,
it's called The Cold Ever After.
It's a queer Arthurian noir.
action adventure thing.
so check that out.
It's, uh, it's wild.
I don't think it's like anything
else that I've written for sure.
It's definitely more, aimed for grownups
than anything else I've had come out.
And if, uh, you know, if you're
looking for something else, there's
still got, Pony Comics coming out.
As for the podcast,
you can find us online.
at any number of places,
including progressivelyhorrified.
transition.
fm on Twitter at ProgHorrorPod.
Uh, you can find us on our, Patreon where
you can help us out and it'll help us
make, more shows, uh, we will also, we'd
also love for you to rate and review us,
you know, even if you can't afford to do
Patreon, you don't want to do Patreon,
we would love just to take the time to
rate and review us so other people can
find the podcast and we can, uh, get more
people in here so we can make more stuff.
We appreciate it.
I do want to again thank Greg
and Joe for joining us, guys.
This was a great time, even
if not such a fun movie.
Emily: Yeah,
Joe: Yeah,
Emily: talking about it with us.
Greg: you know, it was amusing watching
us all try to add some levity to this.
Emily: Yeah.
Good job, team.
We did it.
Joe: Yeah,
Emily: Talked about it.
Jeremy: Street, so
Joe: there you go.
But yeah, so, so go watch
Rec Room for a Dream after.
Emily: Uh, I didn't
Joe: That's where we're at.
Jeremy: mean, throw a clockwork
orange on while you're at it.
Maybe little
boys don't cry.
Emily: I was one of those freaks in high
school that did recommend Clockwork Orange
to people, so, um, I'm gonna go to jail.
I'll see you guys later.
Jeremy: mm hmm.
Emily: Um,
Jeremy: And thank you, as always,
to all of you for listening.
And until next time, stay horrified.