The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader

After multiple violent attacks in the lower mainland of British Columbia, retired 35 year Vancouver Police Officer Paul Ballard speaks with Travis Bader about techniques that an average person can use to keep themselves safe. The concept has been broken down into three parts, Before, During and After.

There are literal tomes that can be written on the subject, but the information in this podcast covers some of the essentials which could save your life. Do you have anything you would like to share with others to increase their personal safety? Please let us know in the comments below.

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What is The Silvercore Podcast with Travis Bader?

The Silvercore Podcast explores the mindset and skills that build capable people. Host Travis Bader speaks with hunters, adventurers, soldiers, athletes, craftsmen, and founders about competence, integrity, and the pursuit of mastery, in the wild and in daily life. Hit follow and step into conversations that sharpen your edge.

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I'm Travis Bader
and this is The

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outdoor adventures.

From the mind of Minolta.

It's been 12 days.

And in the last 12
days we've had what?

11 shootings?

11 shootings in outdoor
environments and public

places throughout the,
what we call the Lower

Mainland here for
our friends outside

of British Columbia.

So I'm sitting down
today with Paul Ballard,

Paul's a regular
mainstay here on The

Silvercore Podcast.

And in a former life,
he was a peace officer

for a local municipal
police department.

Let's say major,
municipal police

department.

Well, the largest
one around here.

Yes.

And you did that
for how long?

35 years just looking at
my calendar yesterday.

It's been seven years
since I retired.

And how's that feel?

And it's pretty
hard to wipe this

grin off my face.

I saw that post as well.

And you brought up a
very interesting point.

You said, you know,
there's probably going

to be people out there
that are interested in

some more information on
basic urban awareness.

Yeah.

When we kind of pitched
this back and forth,

uh, we were one of the
things that struck me in

particular was a number
of people when they're

being interviewed after
something like this

happens, who will say,
I can't believe it.

I didn't know
what was going on.

In my neighbourhood,
I can't believe

this happened.

And, and, and again,
sort of what I consider

to be to the typical
victim response and, you

know, people who lack
preparedness for things,

they're either completely
oblivious or they're in

a deep state of denial
and that can put them

in a position where
their reaction, uh, and

perhaps they would have
not even found themselves

in those places.

If they get rid
of that denial.

They make themselves
a little more aware.

And, and that's the
thoughts that we're going

with today, I thought.

Well, we were kind of
spit balling back and

forth the best way
to put this across.

And the more that
we thought about it,

the more we realized
that this is just not

a singular episode,
this isn't just

one, one and done.

It's too big.

And so we thought about
what if we break it

down, generally speaking,
into a before, during

and after, event.

And that event could
be anything it could

be you're sitting at
the cactus club out

in Burnaby and you
start hearing the pop,

pop, pop, like what
happened a few days ago.

Or it could be that
you're on public transit

and you find yourself in
a situation where there's

an assault of individual.

It could be
anything really.

And that's just, it,
it, it really is.

Um, we're going to take
it from law enforcement

or, or street survival
training, uh, as it

was referred to in the
past and try and talk

about it in terms that
are applicable to what

isn't, an unarmed citizen
likely in, in Canada.

Uh, there's not an
opportunity for people

to be, you know, in that
position where they would

be armed with a firearm
to defend themselves.

So we're now going to
be looking at ways to

first of all, avoid it.

Uh, secondly, if it
does happen, how to

mitigate it, and if it
does happen, how are you

going to get yourself
right after the incident?

You know, you know,
there's lots of

things that we talk
about in survivor's

remorse and so on.

And we'll talk
about that.

But I, I think, you know,
the emphasis is there's

a before there's a during
and there's an afterward

to any critical incident.

And that's what
we're talking about.

Awareness of an incident
becomes critical and

it's not just gunfire,
it's not a targeted

hit on some criminal.

Uh, well, let's look
back a few months

to what happened
in North Vancouver.

You know, an individual
armed with a knife just

starts to maniacally
start slashing and

stabbing and, and happens
in the end, you know,

and, and again, listening
to people who were there.

Their words are, in
my neighbourhood,

I can't believe it.

You know, I've never
seen anything like that.

And that's the words of a
person who really hadn't

thought things out.

Right?

So let's address that.

That's that's the,
before the event, let's,

let's adjust a mindset.

So that we're
ready for that.

When I took a look at
all of this, really the,

before the event, that
encompasses the majority

of what can really
keep a person safe.

Correct.

All of this time, that's
can be spent thinking

practically, thinking
tactically, and putting

your head into a space
of what, what if it

could happen to me?

Correct.

And, and that is that,
you know, if you blindly

go ahead thinking that,
you know, I've got out

of bed this morning and
I'm going to go to bed

tonight without anything
affecting my safety, my

health, um, the safety
and the health of my

family or those people
that are around me.

You're going to get
into that position where

it's going to happen
and you're not going

to, you're not going
to be ready for it.

So before, it's all
about having a plan and

one of the first and
most important things

I believe in that plan
is recognizing that

it's not necessarily
going to happen, but it

very well could happen.

And if you're
there and it is

happening, immediate
recognition of it.

So again, the mind in
denial, sound a gunfire.

Oh, fireworks.

Okay, why would there be
fireworks going at seven

o'clock in a parking
lot on a weekday night.

Right?

And those are the sort
of things that you

have to, you know, stop
trying to rationalize

with what your personal
values are or your

inability to explain.

If it sounds like
gunfire, it's gunfire.

If there's smoke coming
from it, it's a fire.

If something's in their
hand and people are

bleeding, it's a knife.

It's real, it's not
like a movie, it's not,

you know, something
that, that your, your

belief system doesn't
want to accept.

You have to accept it.

So that's the first
thing in, in when we

talk about before, accept
that it could happen.

And when it does happen,
you're recognizing

it for what it is.

So I find, quite often
people will come up

and they'll release
stories of something

that happened.

It might not be as
spectacular as what's

been reported in
the news lately, but

it was definitely
something very, it was

a big event for them.

Traumatic.

Right.

Altering.

Right.

And the couple things
that keep coming up

with these individuals,
number one was like

what you were saying,
never thought it

could happen to me.

They never
mentally prepared.

And I know we're going
to talk a little bit

about what that mental
preparation looks like.

But the other thing
that tends to come

up is, they didn't
know how to respond.

They didn't know the
legal framework that

they could work with
and they didn't know

what they were actually
allowed to do out

of fear of possible
future repercussions.

And that can all be
mitigated with a little

bit of pre-learning and
a little bit of role

playing and understanding
a few of the principles

that we're going to talk
to talk about today.

Yes.

And we're going to
talk about before,

so you need to think
about that before.

So then when it does
happen, it's not at a

cognitive level that
you can respond, you're

going to do it through
reflex because you've

practiced or, or have
downloaded it to yourself

to, to know to do.

So again, we got to come
back and you need to know

legally what can I do?

Practically what
should I do?

What are my priorities,
all of that has to

happen before something
bad occurs in your

life, you know?

And so again, starting
with it can happen.

So we've accepted
that, but can we

predict exactly what
it's going to be?

And that is the
conundrum with a lot

of people in, in, in
their acceptance of it

is, well how do I know?

How do I know it's going
to be in a drive through,

how do I know it's going
to be on a transit bus?

How do I know it's
going to be in

front of a library?

Well, the deal is,
you don't know.

But through a repetitive
visualization or

scenarios, you, as you
walk into the library

today, just go, Hey,
if some guy came with

a knife at everybody
in general, where's my

escape route from here.

How's the fastest way
for me to exit the zone

that this guy is now
occupying or dominating.

And you know, people
think it's crazy and

it's not paranoia, but
are you always looking?

Can I get between
these planters that

are lined up, you
know, into the walkway?

So we have the idea
of the library, it's

a welcoming place.

You know, you're going
to have a grand entrance,

there's probably going
to be planters heading up

there, but is there space
between the planters?

Am I going to have to
get up onto a planter to

get away, to move beyond.

When I see something,
if it's a knife,

what do I need to do?

Like what what's going
to protect me from a

knife and distance of
course, is that thing.

A knife is a contact
weapon, it can be

deployed very quickly, it
can be very devastating.

If somebody gets to
you with that knife,

there's the problem.

But if you could get this
table that we're sitting

at here between the knife
wielder and ourselves,

that can certainly
slow things down.

If you can get onto the
other side of a car.

And even if you start
doing a roundabout thing

until the, your attacker
realizes that they

should come over the car,
you've got a physical

barrier that's probably
going to keep you alive.

And this is something
to think about, well,

how does a knife work?

You know, what's,
you know, what's the

effective distances of
a knife and, and you

honestly don't have
to read books on it.

You just, as a practical
person, get somebody else

to get a wooden spoon in
the kitchen and see how

fast they can touch you
with the wooden spoon.

But now get in the
kitchen, go to the

other side of the
Island in your kitchen

and can they touch ya?

And, and how is
the person reacting

with a wooden spoon?

These sort of little
scenarios that could

be done in the home
can all serve to

download and pattern
your subconscious to be

ready for that moment.

And that's,
that's the thing.

We, we need to look
at it that way we

need to, you know,
continually rehearse.

I'm driving down the
street, I look over

and there's a guy with
a handgun shooting

at somebody else.

What do I do?

I don't slow down to
look at it better, I

immediately turn right
and start to drive as far

away as I can, because
that's not something I

need to be a part of.

And recognizing that
telling that yourself,

I see a gun, I go.

Hmm.

I don't try and stop,
get my cell phone out.

I go.

So why, why don't we take
a look at, uh, the basic

colour code says some
that's taught to a lot

of people on, and I've
seen different studies on

the colour code system.

And some people talk
about it being a tool for

situational awareness and
other people talk about

it as a tool for, uh,
making the decision to do

something, but whatever
you want to use the

colour code system for,
it gives a very quick and

easy, I find, visual that
you can apply if you find

yourself in a situation.

Yeah.

And so, I mean, we
look at the origins

of the colour coded
system, which, you

know, the three colours
go back to the US army

airborne forces in
the second world war.

Um, I believe the, one
of the greatest studies

of personal survival
in any environment was,

uh, Colonel Jeff Cooper.

And he went on to make
five colour-coded levels

and, and really go on to,
uh, in a very descriptive

fashion of only Jeff
Cooper could, um, say

what each one of those
colour codes meant.

But, you know, we go
from white, yellow,

orange, red, and black.

Right.

And when can we
be in code white?

We'll basically as you've
locked the doors to your

house and you've turned
off the light and you

pull up the sheets to
go to sleep, because

that really is the only
time it's acceptable to

be completely unaware
of your situation

because you're asleep.

They say white,
the awareness

level of a victim.

Of a victim.

And realistically that's
where the majority

of people operate on
a day-to-day basis.

Problem.

Huge problem.

Headphones on phones,
heads in their phones,

looking on the ground
as they walk around,

not paying attention
to their surroundings.

Making eye contact
with other people

on the street.

Like that's a,
that's a huge thing.

When, you know, studies
of people that have

been victimized is,
you know, the, you

know, tim timidity
on their own part.

Like it's okay to look
in somebody's eyes until

you look in their eyes
and you realize, hey,

and pardon this term,
that person's crazy,

I need to not make
eye contact because

that's going to only
exacerbate a situation

And that's, that's
a tight rope.

Eye contact it's a
tight rope, too much

eye contact that
could be, you could

be perceived as.

A threat.

Asking, a threat.

So it's a matter you
got to look at people's

faces though, to see, you
know, what's coming next.

And looking at your
phone, looking at your

feet, looking at your
screen, none of that's

a good place to be in.

And we're, you know,
all people will argue

and say, well, you
know, this is the way

of the world today.

Well is 11 gunfire
incidents with deaths

and injury in 12 days,
you know, is that

a good way to live?

Yes, they're not your
friend or my friend

is what we would, you
know, air quotes, normal

people be, uh, these
guys are gangsters.

They have a value system
that does not exist in

our world, you know,
their, their value of

life, their need to do
these things in public.

We can't, we can't
apply ourselves to

that and that that's
a struggle as well.

Well, as of today, the
papers are reporting

that at least in one
of the incidences,

there was an innocent
person that was injured.

Was injured.

Right.

So th and there might
turn out to be more

Right.

You know, both of us are
extremely familiar with

the use of firearms,
in particular handguns.

None of these bad guys
are going to the range

and training themselves
to be the best shot

that they can be.

It's not like law
enforcement where

their training is a
heavy, heavy emphasis

on target awareness.

And what's between
you around, beyond

your target.

And they're not
talking about that.

They are dialed in often
they're going to be

high to build up their
courage and, and, you

know, so judgment and
all these things are

going to be effected.

And it doesn't matter
who you are, you take

those stress levels of
going in to take a life.

Even if it is, you know,
a person lacking in, in

values, perhaps, uh, you
know, we don't need to

diagnose it, but likely
a sociopath that's

willing to do that.

They're still going to
be jacked and they're

not going to be paying
attention to those sites.

And you know, it's
getting as much out

of the end of that
barrel as possible in

the direction of their
intended target and then

getting out of there.

So we've got
condition white,

essentially awareness
level of a victim.

Then we go to
orange where your.

Yellow.

Pardon me, I
skipped a step here.

We go.

You were looking too
far up on the sunrise.

I was.

Yeah.

From white to yellow
and yellow, you're

casually aware.

Yeah, casually aware.

Yellow is how we
should all live, at

all times, until we
have a need to go to.

Then you're
in the orange.

Right?

Orange brings you
up to the next level

where, so something
might be happening.

And for people to
understand, you're

walking down the street,
you're in yellow,

you're looking at people
coming towards you.

You're checking vehicles
out that are driving

down the street.

There's a car,
you're approaching an

intersection, it's making
a left turn and you

kind of casually glance
to make sure that it's

completing its left turn
and not under-steering

the turn and get them
out the curb in front

of you and run you
down on the sidewalk.

And I mean, that's
the way you should be.

You should be, not,
you know, oblivious to

all this stuff, right.

And again, it might
be just an accident

that you could avoid
by just being aware.

Hey, that car
is not going to

make that corner.

It's coming onto
the sidewalk.

So now, condition yellow.

Let's continue on.

Uh, we're just
pulling into the,

you know, local, fast
food drive through.

And now we realize
there's cars ahead of us.

A couple of cars
have pulled in behind

us and if something
happens, how am I

getting out of there?

It will my car get
up over the curb or

am I going to have
to exit my vehicle?

If a shootout begins,
you know, in this

situation, it's just
casually look, make that

little bit of a plan.

You know, what, if
something bad happens

in this situation,
I'm going to go there.

And then if it were
to occur, in another

drive through, in
another city under a

completely different,
you know, corporate

banner above you.

That little bit of
rehearsal that code

yellow, you know,
planning, thinking has

downloaded and your
subconscious will draw

that up and you may be
able to react properly.

And they call
those heuristics.

Heuristics.

I'd never heard that
one before, but.

So they say
from experience.

Yeah.

And that could be an
experience physical

experience you've been
in or something you've

developed through
mental role playing, you

develop these heuristics
where you will sort

of subconsciously pull
upon the positive,

desired result based
on prior experience.

Right.

And then it didn't
really happen, but in

your mind, it, because
you played it through

in a, in a theatrical
sense, it's there

and it's ready to go.

So now we're walking
down the street and

we're going code yellow.

When we start to
look ahead, there's

somebody approaching
directly towards us.

He is mumbling
to himself,

he's looking down,
he's got his hands

jammed in his pockets.

You can see him turning
and aggressively looking

at people ahead of you.

We now move from
yellow to orange.

There is something that's
out of the ordinary.

There is something that
could potentially become

a threat to us, our
family, to our wellbeing.

So, as a regular person,
what are you going to do?

Well, how about start
moving away from that

person's intended path.

Maybe it's going to
require that you step

right off the sidewalk,
uh, start walking in

the gutter a bit, or
maybe it's time to

turn and jaywalk and
go across the street.

You get across the
street, the guy passes,

he continues on.

Now you go back to
yellow and continue on

the rest of your day.

And I think, you know,
when you really start

to become a practitioner
of preparation or

a practitioner of
true awareness, your

life continually
hovers between

yellow and orange.

And it's recognizing
once you move into that

orange state of mind
where your focus is on

that perceived potential
possible threat.

It's you can, you can
really start to calm

yourself back down
with the threat ceases

to exist, and you
don't get into that

paranoid state or, or
where you, you know,

start to get nervous.

Sure.

And you can't live and
you can't enjoy it life

and all that, that,
that really is part of

understanding how to
move back and forth.

So if we're going to
move past orange to

red, now the fights on,
the situation change

was a bit differently.

Right?

And so you have,
now let's go back

to our scenario.

We're seeing this guy
approaching and you

can't move quick enough.

The distance is reduced
you're in code orange,

you're paying attention,
you're focused on them.

You're starting to think
I've got to do something.

And suddenly a knife
comes out of his pocket

and he starts to slash,
and he's not slashing at

the person ahead of you.

He's not slashing at
the person beside him.

He's coming
straight for you.

And now you realize
the threat is real

and it's imminent.

And I have to, without
any, I guess the

word would best be
compassion for anybody

else involved, I
have to deal with it.

Now, if you're physically
capable and prepared

and if trained, maybe
you're going to try

and physically defend
yourself from that knife.

But if you're 65 years
old and you got two bad

knees and you know, you
don't move that well,

maybe I need to put
something between me and

that guy with the knife.

Maybe I have to clearly
step well out of his way,

get a car, get on the
other side of a car, do

something of that nature.

If I got to get out of
there and there's people

in my way, here comes
that compassion thing.

You know what, it's
you first with your

family, because if
anything happens to

you, you, you can't do
anything for your family

or your loved ones.

So really I, that
may be another thing

we need to put into
priority you, your

family, your friends,
other people around,

innocent bystanders
are just a barrier to

your escape, or you're
leaving that zone and

the bad guy himself.

There's no compassion
for that person.

They've made
their decision.

And if there's something
that you have to do to

them, you have to do it.

And you have to do it in
a ruthless fashion but.

With speed,
with aggression.

With aggression.

And, and again, with
no feeling, like there,

there cannot be anything
but purpose, you know,

whatever fear you
might've had to that

point, it turns into
righteous indignation.

How dare you do
this to my family?

How dare you
do this to me?

And that will
give you the focus

to deal with it.

But again, if you're not
physically capable, and

that's the thing we're
talking about here.

We're not talking a, an
armed society or a place

where you can legally
be armed here in Canada.

Unfortunately, that's
the way things are.

And I don't think it's
ever going to change.

So I don't think there's
any government going

to come in here and
say, you know what

we need to, we need
to allow our citizens

to arm themselves.

That's not
going to happen.

So now it's, you know,
for you to be smart,

knowing that you have
perfect rights to

defend yourself against,
you know, injury.

You, you know, there's,
there's that aspect of

it, but perhaps your
greatest option is always

to get out of that, that
zone, get away from it.

And again, it may
mean pushing, uh, an

older person to the
ground so that you

can get past them.

You know, when you look
around and everybody's

standing with mouths
agape, and eyes

like saucers, that's
not your problem.

They are now a bit of
a, well, they actually

are your problem if
it's going to prevent

your escape, you
have to worry about

nothing except going.

So it means pushing
somebody down,

stepping over them.

They weren't here
listening to what we're

talking about now.

And then the final part
would be condition black.

Condition black.

And that's when you
become overwhelmed by

whatever the situation
is and that's kind

of the no return.

Well, the nice thing
about condition black,

that I really like
is a fact that if you

realize that you are
now so overwhelmed by

the environment that
you've frozen and

you're not making proper
decisions, and you're

not downloading these
heuristics that you had

before is you can say I'm
in condition black, let's

deescalate into red and
get myself in the fight.

Back in the fight, back
or back into operation.

Right.

And I, and

I think that's the
best thing about

conditioned black is
just like, wait a minute.

I know I'm here
now, let's get out.

Yeah.

There's other terms
too, that a mental

fibrillation, when the
heart goes into that

fluttering mode, and
now your mind does

this stuff, you know,
you got to shake it

off and get back in.

You know, I've been, um,
fortunate or misfortunate

enough to be in a lot
of situations where I

could look and watch
people go into this

or another good one
is tactical dithering.

Uh.

Ooh.

Uh.

And particularly for
people that were in

charge of things, it
probably shouldn't

have been in charge of
it where now they get

overwhelmed and they are
code black at that point,

they are it's over, um.

Right.

And pride.

Um, what's the other ones
that are out there all,

you know, your feelings
of self-worth often won't

let you admit uh, I've
really messed this up.

Right.

Ego gets in the way.

Right, ego, your, you
know, your eyes glaze

over to what's happened,
my ego Meego and uh, you

got to get out of it.

And, and like I say, you
don't need to worry what

other people think of you
when you do this stuff.

You know, your, your
images portrayed is

no longer important
to anything other than

you and your family
to fix whatever got

you to that point.

So, yeah, true enough.

Uh, learning to
realize that it's out

of control and I must
get control back.

And if you start
finding yourself going

into code black, it
might be because you

haven't spent time
mentally role-playing

and developing these
situations or these

heuristics that
you can call upon

when you need to.

But the other interesting
thing about this is.

If it can happen to you.

It can happen to
the bad guys too.

And in fact, quite
often it happens to

the bad guys before it
happens to you because

they know what's going
to happen and the

adrenaline's pumping
in them and they're

functioning prefrontal
cortex brain, which makes

all their decisions,
isn't making decisions

in the proper format.

And you can use all of
that to your advantage.

Well, you know, just
drawing back on what

we've been able to watch
on TV, and I guess,

you know, dash cameras
and cell phones, as

I always say, I'm not
standing around to

film any of this stuff,
but I guess people

are willing to do it.

And, uh, I think
it was at the vape

shop shooting.

You can watch on the
security cameras of

the buildings, the
guy approaching.

He's got a hoodie on,
like everybody right

now has a mask on.

Perfect, this is
like, this is like

the perfect scenario.

The COVID thing that
we're, we're in the

middle of, for bad people
to, you know, to, to

disguise themselves.

He starts and you can
see his hand come out

of his kangaroo jacket
or hoodie pocket.

And it looks, you
know, clearly he's

got a black handgun,
semiautomatic handgun,

one handed technique.

He's just point
shooting, he's not

aiming that thing.

And he's white
walking towards his

intended target.

You can see that part
initially, the shooting

begins, then they show
up another clip, which

is somebody passing,
filming from a car.

I don't know whether
it's a dash cam,

but I strongly think
it's somebody filming

from the passenger
seat of that car.

As soon as the
shooting stops, bad

guy turns round and
tries to book it.

Well, he steps off the
curb, he takes a header

he's down and stumbling
trying to get up.

Like I say, did he
have, he probably did,

he knew he had to leave
after the shooting, but

he really didn't have
his, his plan together.

And that can be huge,
huge problem for us.

When we're found in
that guy's life at that

moment, he could take
a hostage, he could

shoot somebody else
just to get them out of

the way, he could try
and hijack a vehicle.

Like even the people that
were slowing down to film

that, put themselves at
great risk, because if

all of a sudden the only
thing he could think of

in that moment was to
take you in your car.

Not good.

You get out of there.

You got wheels.

He's on foot, matt
it, leave, drive away.

Don't wait around.

The other one too was
when, uh, there was

the shooting in a.

Delta.

Delta, right
on Scott road.

You could see.

After the shooting, the
bad guy, again, funny

enough with a hoodie
and a face mask on

running, jumping over,
you know, a planter and

a car and everything.

And he's looking for
his getaway vehicle.

And, you know, the wheel
person will say, cause

we don't know if it
was a man or woman, but

likely the wheel man,
uh, was idling, moving

away, moving slowly,
but just like all the

modern cars today, once
the car starts to roll.

The doors lock.

Thats right.

And you can see
him struggling

to get the door.

And finally, you know,
after, uh, a very

noticeable delay, the
door gets unlocked.

He gets in.

So where was the plan
on the part of the

wheel man, I'm going
to pick this guy up.

Why aren't I
opening the door?

No, I'm not trying to
tell these people, they

should plan any better
than what they do know.

No.

But the important thing
is to understand they

haven't planned beyond
doing what they're

going to do, which could
sincerely put you in

danger, know you are not
a part of their plan.

You could be a
barrier to their plan.

You could be just in the
backdrop of the gunfire,

all these things.

So you need to think
with soon as you

recognize that this is
out of the ordinary.

When you're in
code orange, you

recognize this is
out of the ordinary.

This desires are not
desires, requires my

complete attention.

And I need to immediately
start to go through

the Rolodex, if this
goes how far, what

am I going to do?

And that's
having triggers,

mental triggers.

When you see something,
how do you react when

you hear something,
how do you react?

Let's go back.

I'm moved into
code orange and I'm

looking at a situation
that's evolving.

And I start to
hear gunfire.

Hmm it's gunfire,
whether I've ever heard

a real gun go off or
not, if it sounds like

gunfire, I'm going to
treat it like gunfire,

and I'm going to take
the appropriate action.

I'm not going to
hear popping noises

in a parking lot,
on a weekday, in an

urban environment and
think, oh, somebody is

letting off fire works.

Right.

And you know what?

Worst case scenario,
maybe somebody was

letting off fireworks
and you reacted as if it

was gunfire and people
look and they laugh and

you feel like a fool,
but you know what?

You reacted as
you ought to.

Exactly.

And that is the part
that's important.

Don't try and rely on
a value system that

you want to believe
that society is all

unicorns and rainbows,
because it's not.

You know, often you
hear to a, another,

you know, uh, sort of
attitude or statement

that people make, you
know, 16 year old shoots

and kills, you know,
uh, victim on transit

bus and you go, I see
that was a six, 16 year

old boy that did that?

Now you're applying a
value system that, you

know, again, air quotes,
normal people have.

You can't do that.

When I talked a lot
about, you know, the

training that I did with,
with recruits in service

officers, I talked a lot
about what, you know, we

have grown up around, you
know, you've had a parent

that, you know, wiped
your face when you were

dirty, blew your nose,
when you had a cold.

Made sure that you had a
warm jacket on when you

went outside, uh, told
you to be careful when

you cross the street.

As I said to a lot of
recruits that I trained

as a field trainer, as
an instructor in the

academy, I would say to
them, you need to have

a hard look at those
little kids that you see

in urban squalor, when
that little fellows out

there in a diaper, on a
tricycle, and it's only

like four degrees and
he's barefoot in at six

o'clock in the morning
and both barrels are

leaking snot and he's
just happy, he's playing.

Um, how tough do
you think he's going

to grow up to be?

Where do you think
value systems are

when, you know, because
unfortunately he

lives with, you know,
a junkie mom, who's

more interested in
getting a fix than she

is with feeding him.

And she kicks him out
because she's got to

turn a trick and that's
how that guy grows up.

Right.

And what's his
value system?

You don't know until
you've lived it, but it's

certainly not going to be
as clean, pristine, noble

as yours is, you know?

So these are the things
you've got to, you

know, you got to get
out of that mindset.

There, there isn't,
these people are not

living the way you do.

So another thing
I've heard is Holy

Crow, how mentally
taxing must that be.

If somebody comes from a
condition of, or living

in condition white,
where they're on their

phone as a take the
transit, they got their

headphones in, they got
their head down looking

for nickels as they walk
from point a to point B.

And they're now
being asked to be

cautiously alert.

They're not looking
for nickels, trying

to avoid eye contact.

And for a lot of
people, that's that's

the game is let's
avoid eye contact and

they say, how mentally
taxing must that be?

So a friend of mine
he's been on the

podcast, British army.

I think he's one of the
highest YouTube viewed

ones that we have.

And he's talking about
his SAS selection.

And he says, you know,
they taught us to look

for the absence of normal
and for the individual

who's looking to change
your life to be a

little bit more urban
aware, I would say your

life for most people
revolves around their

home and their work.

Family.

Right?

And, and maybe something,
maybe they're in a

sporting activity
or who knows, maybe

there's something else
out there, but for

the majority, they're
traveling from their

house to their work.

They're traveling from
their house to a local

event or whatever it
might be and you can

start to create a,
you can scan and, and

create what is normal
in this environment.

And once you start, it's
kind of like driving a

car, you get behind the
vehicle for the first

time and you're checking
your mirror and you're

checking your speed.

And you're checking
all around you.

Cause you're learning.

You're preparing by doing
that because you're in

that heightened sense
of, of taking it all in.

Then at some point,
at some point, you're

no longer having to
look at all that, but

you're driving and
you're able to now

start seeing, okay, that
vehicles crossing two

lanes and they could
be hitting the sooner.

You're able to start
looking for the absence

of what normal is.

So I develop.

And awareness of what
normal is and so you

can start developing an
awareness for what the

absence of normal is.

Absence of normal.

I like that.

And that is it.

When something's out
of place, that's code

orange, something's
out of place.

I need to give it a
good, hard going over

here by looking, using
all my other senses

to determine am I just
being misled here?

Is it just out of normal?

Is it a threat?

If it's not a threat,
take time to, you

know, drink it in,
see what it is.

It might be entertaining.

And then once you're
beyond it, back

to code yellow and
raise, continue on.

Yeah.

And again, like you
say, the stress of

going from somebody that
goes, listen to them.

Like you, you, everybody
knows somebody.

We were walking home
from the mall and you

can't believe some
guy, you know, some guy

did some guy exposed
himself and, and they

can't get over it.

They just like it, it
goes on and it dominates

conversation for a
week in their life.

And they phone everybody
in, they posted

on YouTube and or
Facebook and Instagram.

And I, you know,
I was just, well,

you know what?

People expose
themselves every day.

So rather than, you know,
taking this to, um, a

complete overwhelming
of, of your day, do

you know, did you, did
you report it properly?

Did you make notes,
all these other things

and just say, you know,
hey, the rest of you, I

learned my lesson today.

I had always thought
that somebody could

expose themselves to
me and it happened.

And what did I do?

I moved away.

I got, you know, a
car between me and

this individual.

I, I stepped
into a doorway.

I walked into a
storekeeper and I said,

this guy is exposed
and call the police or

whatever was required,
you did the right thing.

It was an individual
that was being

followed downtown.

Uh, she kept, she,
you know, she put her

camera on her phone
filming the guy.

I don't think she
called the cops.

I don't think the police
were involved until after

she had found some young
fellows who were playing

basketball and said,
this guy is, you know,

this creeps following
me, they chased him off.

She put it on
social media.

And I think it was
actually picked off

a social media if I'm
not, if I'm not correct

in this, I, you know,
I, I fully accept

that, but there was
no indication that she

directly contacted law
enforcement as a result

of this guy stalking her.

So that's not an
uncommon situation.

And we're going right
back to what do I'm going

to do if this situation
presents itself to me.

Right.

So that the, what would,
would you do would be

mental role playing
and what we do, and

that would probably be.

Bleed into the, during
episode that we're

going to talk about.

Right.

But, but here's
the thing I'm going

to call the cops.

I'm going to give them
a clear description.

I'm going to include
the time, the date, you

know, the, the street
signs that are, you

know, the 100 block
that I'm in, you know,

all of these things and

.
Look for distinguishing
features, look at a

height, skin color,
something that would

be hard to hide.

As simple as which way is
North, you know, is the

guy walking North, South,
East, or West, you know?

And look for something
like a scar or a tattoo,

or just one thing
after you get the real

basics is they got a
mask on, they got their

hood on, but you could
probably see skin color,

probably get gender,
probably get a height

out of all of that.

Can you see anything
that's going to

be difficult for
them to change it.

You can.

Right.

And now.

But this is some
of the during.

The, well, this
is, but again, that

mental rehearse.

So like, if I look at
a person and I need to

phone the police, what
are the police need

to know, description
direction to travel

location, you know, and,
and description always

includes particular
description, you know,

distinguishing features.

I always kind of, again,
you listen to the,

you know, police are
looking for a 15 year

old, you know, male
wearing a black hoodie.

Oh, gee, that's good.

It tells you nothing.

I'm sure everybody's
gonna know that guy.

Right.

You know, but if you
said that he had one

eye and you know, at,
uh, uh, particular, you

know, other deformity
or, or, you know.

Steely blue eyes.

Steely blue eyes, you
know, and, you know,

or steely blue eye.

Sure.

And I don't mean to laugh
and make light of it,

but, you know, we have
to, we have to somehow

accept that this is a
proper way to live, and

it's not going to put you
into a state of paranoia.

So when I was younger
and I'd go downtown

Vancouver, my dad would
drive into three 12 main

street where the head
office air for VPD was.

And situated in an
area which a lot of

less than desirables
around, we used to

always play this game.

Hawks and doves, right?

With your dad?

Yeah.

Nice.

So five, six, seven,
eight, nine, 10.

And when I first go off
and as a five-year-old

hawks and doves, so the
hawks are going to be

the predators, the doves
of the prey, right?

And I'd look and
I'd think, well,

they must all be
predators out here.

Cause look at how
different they are living

than how I live, right?

But after a while you
started seeing things

and you see, hold on a
second, the way that,

that person's dress is
different from how these

other people are dressed
or they're a little

bit more put together,
they've got their back

up against a wall.

Their eyes are up
and they're looking,

similar to how I'm
looking as well.

Oh, we just made
eye contact.

Okay.

There's a, there's a
bit of recognition here.

These other people
they're looking at

the ground, they're
shuffling around.

There doves, these guys
over here, they're hawks.

And I say guys, because
predominantly the men

are going to be the
aggressors, right?

And I think playing
that game just in

your day-to-day life,
looking around, you'll

be surprised at how
many people aren't

looking up and the ones
who are looking up.

There's a reason they're
either like you and

they're keeping their
eyes open for possible

threats, or they are
a threat and they're

looking for victims.

So I, I think when we
look at the mental role,

playing, playing a game
of hawks and doves can

be very beneficial.

The other thing I got out
of that was the uniforms.

Everybody wears a
uniform, police officers

wearing a uniform.

You'll run to a police
officer, you'll see the

badge, you'll see the
sharp dress uniform.

And you'll say,
can you help me?

I need some help
because you can see

exactly what that
individual is all about.

The hawks will wear
uniforms as well.

And you can start
to spot that out.

The people who are a
little bit more, uh,

certain gang affiliations
will wear gang

affiliation uniforms, and
you'll start to see that.

And what does
the hawk do?

The hawk, you know,
does certain behaviors,

you know, and, and the
thing is if you were in

a situation and you go,
geez, look at these, you

know, and obviously very
young men are, you know,

basically teenagers and
that guy's driving a BMW

X five, and this guy's
got, you know, a, a six

inch lift on a brand
new, you know, three

quarter ton diesel truck.

And this guy is driving
a, you know, a fancy

blackout window SUV.

That's absolutely
less than a year old.

Does that look right?

Okay.

So that's the
absence of normal.

That's not normal.

I mean, you know, if
the kid's driving a nice

car, that's got an end
sign in the back that

maybe takes it back to
normal, but these guys,

you know, or are in these
vehicles that doesn't

fit, you know, um, what
we used to say a lot with

the recruits is one of
these things is not like

the other one, you know?

And, and that's
what you've gotta be

able to compare it.

Yes.

Young guys have a
perfect, young girls,

have a perfect right
to get a driver's

license and be out there
operating dad's car or

mom's car or whatever.

But, you know,
typically dad is not

letting the kid drive,
you know, $110,000

Lexus, you know, SUV.

That's got, you know,
blinged out wheels

and things like that.

It just doesn't make
sense for a 17 year old

to be operating that.

And, you know, you just
got to pay attention

to things like that.

So in that game of
Hawks and doves, the

other thing that I
started picking up was

basic body language.

And seeing how people,
like little things

where a person's
feet are pointed in a

conversation, you go to a
party, you're talking to

other people, a person's
talking to you, but

their feet are pointed
over at the pretty

girl next to ya, right?

Right.

You know where
their attention

actually is, right.

Uh, or maybe their torso
is more pointed, but

they're looking over.

Picking up little things
about how people's body

language I, and there's
some good books on it.

How to read a person like
a book was the old one.

Alan Pease.

I remember he's read
a few, he's written

a few books on it.

I would highly recommend
if anyone listening

wants to learn a little
bit about body language,

he's a good author.

But the interesting
thing that I found on

the, both the uniform
and the body language.

Was to look
introspectively.

What uniform
are you wearing?

And what body language
are you giving off?

Are you giving off
the body language

of a victim?

Are you dressed
like a victim?

And that's why like
for the police, your

very first, your very
first step on the

use of force model is
officer presence, right?

Well, it, it is, uh, you
know, as far as well, and

in many cases, just the
right kind of presence

puts things down.

It and people say,
how does presence

do anything?

It's like drive down
the road and see a

police car that doesn't
even have its lights

on parked on the side.

Do you think you're going
to see a reaction from

everybody else driving?

Right.

And that's what we used
to always say too, is,

you know, if you put
a, a marked car out,

you get, you know,
you get compliance.

If you put a covert or
an unmarked vehicle out,

you catch the offender.

So, you know, in a
lot of cases, what

do you want to do?

Prevent, or arrest.

And, and, and that
is, that is kind of,

they like, people are
even saying now, like,

you know, the police
need to do something.

The police need
to do something.

Um, and you know, in
a lot of cases, you

know, if we were to put
marked vehicles on these

targets, who absolutely,
they are known, they are

known to law enforcement.

Uh, they are, they're
known, uh, to the

people that matter.

But now everybody's kind
of holding back thinking,

wow, we might violate
their, their rights.

There could be a court
challenge, it's this

one's gone, you know,
our particular situation

right now without getting
political, I'm going

to get off topic here.

I got to get back.

But yeah, that presence
could change things.

Your presence can
change things.

Are you walking upright?

Right.

You know, do you look
like you've got shoes on

that you could, you know,
run with or fight with,

you know, a pair of heavy
work boots on anything

like that might be the
presence that is going to

keep you out of things.

But if you are, you
know, not dressed

appropriately for the
area that you find

yourself in, and you're
not paying attention,

you're flagging yourself
as, as a, as a dove,

as you'd like to say.

Sure.

And, and talking about
the area that you find

yourself in, there are
certain cues that you

can start picking up.

So Gavin de Becker
wrote a book called

the gift of fear.

And aside from it being
a very good promotional

piece for Gavin de
Becker and his agency.

Most of these things are.

He did a fantastic
job at that, but the

underlying message in
there was essentially

trust your gut, right?

Trust your gut instinct.

And he would talk about
women's intuition and

men have a gut instinct,
and quite often.

Men, particularly
young capable men will

try and rationalize.

Why am I feeling
afraid in this moment?

This doesn't make
sense, I'm a tough

guy, I can take care of
myself and they start

rationalizing their way
through and, and a big

underlying thing on that
was trust your gut and

respond accordingly.

And there's different
things that we can

take into account
when we're making

those gut decisions.

And whether that gut
decision is right or

wrong in the end, if
we err on the side

of caution, always
a better, but you're

talking about being in
the wrong side of town.

Well, take a look
at your environment.

Are there indicators in
your environment that

perhaps you might be,
you should be on a higher

level of alertness.

Do you see graffiti?

Do you see drug
paraphernalia

kicking around?

Do you see, uh, evidence
of impoverished people?

Because when there's
less money, the desire

for money is going to
be more in the desire

for quick money is
going to be higher.

The thing we have to
say, we're talking

about awareness in, in
an urban environment.

And that doesn't just
mean from these you

know, what, what brings
us to light is a series

of violent incidents
that are, you know,

put the public into
outrage every single day.

You need to be in an
aware situation in so

many of these, these
places from leaving

the parking lot where
you park your car to

get to your office.

Although everybody's
working from home now

because of the COVID.

Right.

We may be just projecting
into the future when

things get back to a
more normal state of

affairs, but you know,
you take the bus, you're

taking the bus to go to
a doctor's office you've

never been to, and you
can certainly see that

the buses now descending
into, you know, a little

bit less than, you know,
Tawny neighbourhood you

know, so it's now time
to start moving up your

levels of awareness.

Maybe you're going to go,
you know, almost orange

coming off the bus till
you have a good, hard

luck and checked out the
15 people that you're

about to encounter.

And then you can take
it back down to your,

your yellow and just,
you know, so it's funny.

Hey, I was yellow,
I was orange.

It was, you know, Oh,
I must've gone orange

five times today,
you know, which is an

indicator that you're
doing the right thing.

If you don't have to
go red, you're good.

You really are.

And if you can get back
into yellow and, and

it's a relaxed state
of awareness, it's not

a, it's not a state of
hypervigilance, which is

what all this stuff comes
back to was the young

soldiers who were waiting
for D-Day or waiting

for, you know, a big
airdrop or whatever, you

know, and we're talking
17, 18 year old boys.

Okay.

Let's use the value
system that we know my

son when he was 17 years
old is now got you know,

a, uh, a full field pack
on a parachute on his

back, a steel helmet.

And they're about to kick
him out of an airplane.

Oh, but not today.

We're not going up,
you know, and everybody

relaxed go back to
bed or, you know, get

a, get a sandwich,
but stay ready.

And, and these guys were
in complete states of,

you know, mental turmoil
and, and being upset and,

and somebody recognized,
well, we need to gage

this out because these
guys are, they haven't

even seen combat yet
and they're burnt out.

And this is the
origins of this.

So it's perfect
for people.

With what we would say,
a normal value system has

existed all their life.

And you know what?

We're so good
with our kids.

Don't talk to a stranger,
you know, be careful

of dogs, strange dogs.

We do all this up.

And yet the same parent
who might say that is

walking down, you know,
an unknown street in an

unknown neighbourhood and
somebody says, Hey, can

you help me find my keys?

Or could you
step over here?

And, and you
know, Oh, that's a

beautiful necklace
that you're wearing.

May I see that?

And you know, are
you kidding me?

Nobody that I've
never met in a strange

neighbourhood is going
to come into my personal

space and touch my
necklace, you know,

yet people do and they,
and they go, Oh my God.

And when I walked away
that wasn't a necklace

it was wearing and you
know, this sort of stuff

like, are you kidding me?

No, but that's the way
I think, cause that's

my value system, but
that's only come from, I

don't know 40 something
years now that I've

more than that, that
I've lived this way.

My dad and I always
liked to throw my dad's

story into things.

My dad played in a pipe
band for the shrine,

and there was always
the shrine circus.

That's a real thing that
kids will miss or the

way the old time circuses
with the lions and tigers

and they're in the house.

But they used to like
march out into the arena.

The pipe band would
be out there and of

course the big ticket
items would be the

lions and tigers.

And my old man used
to watch guys trying

to get close to the
lions and the tigers.

Now they were probably
pretty tame or as

tame as those things
could be, but those

lions and tigers
knew how to get even.

And one of them was to
turn around and mark you.

Sure.

You know what I mean?

Like a tom cat.

And it was one
of those things.

My dad just remember
that, and there we are up

at the Okanagan game farm
standing there, looking

at the tiger in the cage.

And you know, you got
10, 12 feet between the

barrier and the cage
that the animals in.

And, uh, of course
he's going, we should

stand back now.

Cause he's seeing the
behaviours in that

tiger that he knew
and sure enough, the

tiger delivered on
demand and you know,

other peoples, Oh yes.

And I even remembered
this was how do I

say it was nine years
old, we were in the,

the zoo in Honolulu.

And there was this huge
silver back gorilla

sitting there and the
poor thing behind bars,

just, you know, with a
total state of dejection

on his face and people,
you know, trying to get

them to do something and,
you know, you just knew

and, and that's just,
ah, we should move back.

And he had, uh, he had
good senses about stuff,

uh, and faster than you
could blink an eye that

gorillas scooped up a
handful of excrement

and through the bars,
these people that had

been taunting him.

And then he threw
himself up at the bars,

powerful, powerful,
you know, beast and

started shaking the bars.

But that was his, I
was just entertainment.

Yes.

And to my dad's
credit though, he

kind of recognized,
you know, he was just

that kind of a guy.

He was thinking, you
know, first of all,

he loved animals
and he couldn't bear

the thought of, you
know, caging them or

anything else like that.

But he knew so.

Just another dad's story.

Well, you brought up
a couple of really

interesting points.

Uh, one was the woman
walking in being

harassed, being stocked.

So I remember at a
young age, people would

be like, why, why are
you walking so fast,

Travis it's cause
you got long legs.

I can't keep up.

Well, it's not cause
I got long legs, I

specifically walk
faster so that my

normal is, other
people around me are

generally walking slower.

And I don't have to think
about them if they're

matching my speed or
exceeding my speed.

All of a sudden they come
up on the radar and I

have to think about them.

So little, little tricks,
like, uh, watching, who's

matching your speed.

Uh, maybe as you're
walking downtown and

you're looking in store
windows, don't look in

the window, look at the
reflection, the window

to check your six,
watch who's behind you.

But also look, I had
like, actually look ahead

and plan your escape
route, or maybe there's

something up ahead that I
don't want to be meeting

five feet from me.

I can avoid a
hundred yards away.

And yeah, and, and
everything you pass,

you know, not only as an
escape route forward, but

maybe for your retreat,
what did I pass that, you

know, could have helped
me out in this situation?

Was there a garbage
can I could have, you

know, rolled in front
of somebody or pushed

away or got behind or a
car that was back there.

I'm now on a strip,
uh, you know, pavement,

uh, is beside me on the
edge of the sidewalk.

Whereas there was
a car that was only

about 30 yards back.

Maybe, you know, if I get
to that, I can just, it's

all about time to, right.

You know, when any of
these situations, if you

can get distance from
whatever the situation

is, you get time to
think more and figure

it out and get away.

But, you know, distance
and time and, and

avoiding the threat
without getting into

so many of the real
specifics of actual

physical conflict of
coming together, you

know, we're, we're
talking average Joe

stuff here, not martial
artists, not armed

citizens stuff, you know.

And we're not
advocating anybody at

this point should try
and arm themselves

illegally at all.

You know, that that's,
that is such a high

degree of training
is required to be

efficient at that.

And that's not where
we're going with this.

It's it's to develop
an awareness.

And in most cases
we'll keep you free

of ever having to,
to, to come touching.

Right.

You know, you know, and
the kind of touching

which, you know, would
mean a physical fight

or trying to, or trying
to, to stop, you know,

getting stabbed or
beaten or anything like

that, you know, and.

There's so much of
it as common sense,

you know, like where
are you at what time?

Like, I can't believe
this happened to me.

We can't believe
this happened.

It was three o'clock
in the morning and you

were drunk out of your
mind and by yourself,

and then you walked,
you know, instead of

walking towards transit,
you thought, Oh, I'll

just walk over here and,
you know, get a pizza

from some skid row place
where they sell pizza.

So now again, how many
times did I hear that

while I was working,
too many times, but

again, people have the
belief, they maybe have

a right to, well, I have
a right to be there.

You sure do.

Yep.

Absolutely.

And I'm not here to tell
you that, you know, Oh,

I am, you know, What
have I looked like a

liberal, and I'm not
going to tell you that

you can do anything,
but if you're smart,

you shouldn't do that.

Friend of mine talks
about a, uh, an old poem.

I think it was called
the stop sign or

the stop light or
something like that.

And he says his way
was right, his will was

strong, but he's just as
dead as if he were wrong.

You had the light,
it was green.

You have the right to
be there, but maybe you

should look around and
make the proper decision.

If there's a mack
truck coming down and

it's going to blow the
light and hit ya just

cause you're right.

Sure, dead right.

Yeah, dead right.

Yeah.

My mum used to her
poem was here, lies

the body of Mr.

Gray.

He died defending his
right of way and just as

dead as if he were wrong.

So I forget the
other parts of it,

but yeah, it's true.

And yeah, go where you
want whenever you want.

So what are you prepared
to deal with what could

potentially be there?

And certain things
are of greater

potential than others.

I think most people
have heard run, hide

fight, and those
are the three words

that are thrown out.

If there's an
active shooter,

run, hide, fight.

Yeah.

But keeping that run,
hide, fight mentality,

obviously, if you're
able to run, if you're

able to get your butt
out of dodge that

trumps everything else,
get yourself out of

danger in order to do
that, run, hide, fight,

run, hide, fight.

Keep that in your head.

And you do your mental
role playing, if I put

myself in this position,
will I be able to run?

If I go into this
building, do I know

where the exits are?

Do I position myself as
I'm having lunch in a

way where I can watch
people as they come in or

come out and I can have
a quick and easy egress.

And if you keep that
run, hide, fight,

you start eliminating
the possibility that

you have to hide.

Fight.

Yeah.

Um, you brought up
another one, which was

a person talking to
you on the street and

they talk about the
rule of one plus one.

There's one bad guy.

There's probably two
there's, you're searching

a person, you find
one weapon, you'll

probably find two.

If someone stops to
talk to you, you have

to really question why,
and immediately who

were they working with?

Who could be
around, right.

Just because you hear
the bang over here

doesn't mean that's
the only threat.

So putting yourself in
a position, tactically

positioning yourself.

If you're talking to
somebody on the street,

if you made that decision
to engage and actually

talk to them, tactically
positioning yourself if

you're eating lunch, if
you're at the office,

just being aware of
your surroundings,

you and I were at a,
at a, a restaurant

there at a shot show.

And another fellow,
we noticed people

kept walking.

He said, what is your
situational awareness?

My God.

That's right.

Yeah.

We were sitting there.

Everybody's just kept
banging into him.

I go what's with this
guy, like, why don't you

just take a couple of
steps back, put your,

you know, stand by, uh,
a, uh, uh, uh, support

column in the, in the
place that we were at

or something like that.

But everybody was bumping
him into, into him.

Yeah.

It is a funny thing
like that, you know,

course some people
purely by their physical

stature, very few things
are going to happen.

And, you know, and,
and it's easy to say,

like, you know, I've,
since I was 14, I've

been over six feet,
tall, people are not

actually sizing me up.

I'm not a woman, that
is one of the things

that scares me more than
anything else is I, you

know, I want the women
in my life, my family to,

you know, and always to
be on their, their game.

And, you know,
unfortunately my

wife is very sharp.

She's, you know, you'd
be tangling with, uh,

your weight and wild
cats with that one, but

that's the thing, you
know, and she's not,

she has no problems, you
know, just blowing people

off who are trying to
distract her and things.

She's, she's
good with that.

She's focused.

She walks fast, you
know, she has a purpose

and everything else.

She walks our dogs.

I'm disabled right
now until I get

my knee fixed.

So she walks our dogs.

Non-urban environment,
but she's aware she's

got her air horn.

She's got her bear
spray, you know, she's

got her communications,
she's got a whistle,

all those things.

And it all goes on our
little back or waist belt

thing when she goes out
there and every time.

So she's now bought
into her awareness in a

non-urban environment,
in the outdoors.

And so many people
will buy into that

so much more easily.

And I find there's
almost no threat

in the outdoors.

We teach bear awareness.

We've both been a part
of that developing

programs for people
because it could happen.

Sure.

With a lot of people,
they believe it's

bound to happen.

And that's all that
occupies them every time.

And they're not seeing
that glacier and they're

not seeing that waterfall
and they're not smelling

the air because they
think everything is going

to be a bear attack.

So going back to this
urban awareness, nobody's

thinking about the
bear attack they're

thinking about, Oh yeah.

You know, I want to go
to this restaurant and

they don't pay attention
to where this restaurant

is located, where they
parked their car, how

are they going to get
back to their car?

When you get to your
car, have you, you know,

you remotely started.

I love that, I love,
you know, the vehicles

that remotely starts.

So the cars up the
lights are on and that

could be a distraction
that could help you out.

All of a sudden this
car starts up while

somebody thinks they're
cornering you in the

dark and they now think
there might be a witness.

It's a great thing to
have lights on engine

running, as you get
there, don't unlock

it until you get
right to it though.

That's a good tip.

You know, like leave
the thing locked until

the very last second,
you know, don't take

that program out of
your car, where as soon

as you unlock the pass
or the driver's side,

the passenger also
unlocks, you know, you

make that decision.

Right.

You know, you can push
the button twice on your

fob or you get in and
flip the, you know, the

switch that on the inside
of the door, those, those

things are important.

And these are all it's
not, if it, or when

it's happening, these
are all things that you

should be prepared to do
before and how to live

your life, you know.

Now as you're walking
down the street or you're

at the, at the subway
or at the, uh, the sky

train or the bus station,
and you're assessing

what could be possibly
out of the ordinary.

You see somebody sitting
there and they're not on

their phone, particularly
a younger person.

That's not ordinary
because they're up in

the alert and they're
looking around.

There's probably a
reason for that, mark

that in your head and
watch them take a look

at the face, take a look
at their hands, because

if they're going to do
something, it's going

to be with their hands.

If they're going to hold
a weapon, that's going

to be with their hands
and then watch a face

again and try and go
through that constant

OODA loop, the observe,
orient, decide and act

and keep going over.

As you look at people
face and face what's.

Is there a threat there?

Uh, I think that would
be something that would

help people in their
decision-making in

their branching scenario
here, as well as we're

talking a lot about
mental conditioning.

Physical conditioning,
is massive being

able to just have the
cardiovascular skill

or strength, sorry.

The cardiovascular
strength to survive an

encounter is something
that should be on

people's minds in the
pre section as well.

And it'll help the
mental role playing too.

Yeah.

And that's right.

I mean, you know,
you have plenty of

options in that regard.

Sometimes physicality
is going to prevent

that, that's just.

Sure.

You know, a disability,
uh, and infirmity,

anything like that,
you know, poor vision.

But you brought up a
really good point there.

And you talked about
communication device

and out walk in the
dogs with some bear

spray or some dog spray.

Now having OC, Oleoresin
Capsicum for people

that's not allowed.

Thats illegal.

That's illegal.

Mind you having it for
dogs or predatory animals

is perfectly legal.

And I mean,
that's the thing.

We are not a society.

Canadians, we are not
a society where, you

know, we can tell people
that you have the right

to stand your ground.

Um, though it can be
interpreted in law.

It's always better
to run away and fight

another day than
to try and do that.

So I always say the
idea of standing your

ground only comes when
there's no other option.

And, and you know, the,
the, the, as you say,

the, the run hide or
fight, boy running, man

best, but no one where
you're going to run and,

and run it into a store,
uh, run to, you know,

what appears to be, um,
and like you said, you

talk about uniforms, but
virtually any uniform,

like official uniform is
better than nothing else.

So there's security
guards and, and, uh,

a garbage truck, you
know, the uniform that

the city of whatever
you're in engineering

truckers there that
guy's got communication

probably is going to
have a cell phone or

a radio in that truck.

But he's also, he's
at work, he's there,

he's not going to,
you know, he's going

to be a, a person you
can go to, you know?

And so the run run to
something and it's not

just, you know, run
away from the threat to

something that's going to
benefit you in the end.

The hide, you know,
I wanted to say that

because when you brought
that hide up, hide, hide,

what am I hiding from
hiding, from being seen,

hiding from gunfire.

Like, you know, that's
an important thing to

think about, right?

And you know, is the
guy who got a shoulder

firearm because the
penetrative effect

of rifle rounds
is much greater.

So hiding means, you
know, some serious

ballistic protection,
a big truck,

anything like that.

It's at a handgun.

The threat is slightly
less ballistically, but

you know what, if they're
shooting low, it, the

bullets will ricochet
underneath the car.

So if you going to
hide behind a car high

behind the wheel, high
behind the engine block,

the front of the car,
those sorts of things

are really important.

You know, it's
not just hide.

Hiding might be
better than doing

nothing, always.

But now talk about,
well, if I could to duck

behind that vehicle,
or if I got a choice

of two that are equal
distance away, maybe I'm

going to pick that, you
know, the big wheel on

the one ton truck there
to get down behind it

and hold that position.

Right.

You know?

And then if I got to
hide, cause that's all

I got, I now got to go
back to the run thing.

So leaving my position,
if it means running

across wide open
ground, that's not good.

So you're differentiating
between cover

and concealment.

Concealment.

Yes.

You know, and just
like, you know, hide and

seek hiding or hiding
to get protection.

Right.

So people who are
listening, if you're

hiding and they
can't see you, that'd

be concealment,
you're concealed.

They can't see you.

Right.

Whereas cover is
something that'd be

much more preferable.

And as you're saying,
Paul has got ballistic

stopping capabilities.

So the, the forces
that are, you know,

at work here, they're
the professionals

who are training.

And we, we have now
recognized that the

active shooter scenario
is a real thing.

Uh, in a mall, in a
school, in a church

we've seen it all.

And you know, we've seen
it, you know, not just

in the United States, but
we've seen it in Canada.

We've seen it in Europe.

And so one of the
things we talk about

the hide is quiet.

Hmm, we tell kids, uh, an
active shooter happens.

Tell everybody, get, you
know, out of the way of

any window, you know, in
the door, looking into

the room, get down on
the floor and everybody

shut up, shut the phones
off, you know, turn the

lights, you know, down
all, at well, don't shut

the phones off, but you
know, you don't want.

That ringer off.

Shut the ringer off.

You don't want
the light from the

screen, reflecting
back into your face

to give you a way so.

And your loved ones, the
second they hear that

there's something going
on at your location.

Everyone's going
to be phoning your

phone right away.

Hide.

So I, fighting,
quite often.

So I've, I used to do a
fair bit of martial arts.

I would do Muay Thai
and Arnis and Jujitsu

and a few others.

And people would say,
hey, what's the best

martial or that I
just want to learn

something so I can
have some self defense.

I can protect myself and,
uh, time and time again.

I tell them what's
way better than any

martial art is basic
physical conditioning

and your urban
awareness or situational

situational awareness.

You don't find yourself
in that situation.

That is way better,
but if you have to do

something, boxing's
great because it's great

for the cardio and it
teaches you to take a hit

and realize that you're
not made out of glass.

Right.

That's an important
thing, too.

Sure.

You know, if you, if it
does, you know, you've

got to think about
this in this before

scenario, you must
think about this now.

If you get shot, stabbed,
punched really hard and

you know that you've
been shot, punched or

stabbed, you're okay.

Cause you're, you're,
you're still aware.

So that doesn't mean
anything other than I

got to continue on to
get away from this or

make it stop or whatever.

And that's, that's a huge
thing because you know,

I've watched people.

I should say police
officers who get one

punch and they're
out of the fight.

Right?

The nose starts to bleed.

They turn and
roll away and you

think, oh my gosh.

And I've seen other,
you know, there are pure

heroics where somebody
has got a broken finger,

broken wrist, broken arm,
they continue the fight,

you know, and, and that's
just, you know, the, how

strong the mind can be.

But the mind only gets
strong from considering

what could happen and
developing that, you

know, that that will
to live that will to,

to get through it.

So all of that, even
though we talk about the

will, you know, should
be part of when it's

happening training the
mind to have that will.

Right.

Always thinking about,
um, always thinking

about what's important
to you beforehand, you

know, people go, when
it happened, my, my life

flashed before my eyes.

And what were
you thinking?

Well, I don't have
a will and how's my

family going to get by.

I had a fight with my
loved one and I didn't

kiss them goodbye.

You know, all
these things can

have a negative
detractor on people.

Now much more in
people that are in law

enforcement or, you know,
in, in the military,

where you know, where
we are putting them

directly into harms.

Right.

It's not an if situation,
it's just a win-win

situation with them.

So it's incredibly
important even for

us, if it is that if
situation, if we're just,

you know, the citizenry
that we have your ducks

in, in order, if you're
leaving to go to work and

you've had a huge fight
with your, your other,

you know, and you, you
just say, look we gotta

stop fighting right now
because I'm going off,

you know, I'm going to
be gone for a day or

something like that.

We'll resume when I
get back, I really

look forward to that,
but we'll resume then.

But for now, if you still
have feelings for that

person at that point,
if it's not a total

loss, tell 'em you got
feelings for them, make

sure you get that off.

Cause you know, having
that popping your

head at the wrong
moment is not good.

And I've, and I have
had the opportunity

to talk to people who
said, you know what?

I started thinking about
what I hadn't done when

I was about to die.

And I had to actually
stop thinking about

that to get back
into the fight.

And, uh, it was funny.

We always talk about,
you know, the man

who saw the elephant.

So in the early 18
hundreds, not many people

had seen the elephant.

Right.

But when people
started to travel

specifically to hunt,
in Africa or at actually

traveled as explorers.

And they would come
back to, you know,

modern Europe in
those days, modern or

modern North America.

Everybody wanted to hear
about what it was like

to see the elephant.

And when you find
somebody that's been

in a true life or death
situation, before you

get into one, you want
to listen to what the

man or the woman who
saw the elephant has to

say, everybody has a,
Oh, you know, they want

to say, did you know,
what did you think of

when you were seeing the
elephant and listen to

what the person says.

And I just put it, like,
I have heard people ask

me, um, you know, Or ask
others who had been in a

life or death situation,
did you think about, you

know, did you leave the
coffee pot on at home

or something like this?

And these are things
that are typically

put into the mind
by an, what I would

call a non-combatant.

And there are
non-combatants out there

years and years ago,
there was a book written,

uh, by, uh, Wambaugh,
uh, who did a lot of,

you know, police style
novels based many of it

around the LAPD, but one
of his true novels or

not true novels, one of
his, uh, historically

correct books was
called The Onion Field

in the late sixties.

A couple of detectives
robbery detectives

were taken hostage.

Uh, they were taken out.

One was murdered in an
under onion field, the

other one survived.

Hmm.

From that situation,
they developed a whole

series of, you know,
post critical event, you

know, ideas and one of
the things was they said

was, you know, we had
to tell people what it

might be like to go to
through a critical event.

And people were saying,
you know, don't worry,

after the critical
event, you might become

a bed wetter or a
kleptomaniac or, you

know, you're going to
have marital problems.

And they were telling
him, police officers

in particular, it's not
unusual if you get into,

you know, a on-duty
shooting to leave the

job within two years
because of the stresses

and everything else.

And this went on for
the longest time.

And I still remember as
a baby cop, listening to

the Academy instructor,
talk about that stuff.

And because I was
fully embracing the

concept of lethal force
training, I started to

listen other people.

And what I say is,
don't think that,

because that's a self
fulfilling prophecy.

If you think that you get
into something beforehand

and you start to say, Oh
my God, if this happens

to me, I'm finished.

I'm going to become
impotent, my, my marriage

will end all these it's
it's going to happen.

Hmm.

One of the things you
need to do and tell

yourself, well, I, maybe
I'm going to spoil it.

You know, I, I
don't want it.

I've got to talk
about after.

Sure.

How you should feel
if you are, you know,

applying everything
that we're, we're

leading up to here.

No, that sounds good.

But, uh, what a man
thinks he will do.

Right.

Essentially.

And so you want to
program yourself with

all these right inputs.

Exactly.

And if you're being
programmed by a

non-combatant, somebody
who doesn't have the

grounding to, to put
themselves forward

for all this stuff,
I mean, I'll tell you

when we start talking
about during, I've got

some examples, personal
examples that I can

offer up that rings.

So true to one that
combat and told me

what I might experience
going through, but

let's go back, listen
to the people who

have done stuff and
have been successful.

And what were the
things they do?

You have interviewed
people who have

survived, bear attacks,
what did they do?

They became resourceful.

Now, you know, there
was the guy that pulled

out that little pocket
knife, which was not a

flip open knife he had
to, and that was it.

But he remembered that he
had a knife, he knew that

he had to do something,
he got the knife

out and that was it.

You know why he did that?

He did that because
of a story that was

written, I think it was
in Gary Shelton's book.

Talk, one of the bear
attack books and there,

I believe it was a
indigenous fellow,

who was attacked by a
bear and used his buck

knife that he had and
stabbed the bear and

kept stabbing the bear
until he was able to

escape from the bear
and crawl himself out

some far distance away.

And this guy who was
in a bear attack Colin

Dowler, he said, I
remembered that story

cause I remembered
that as his heuristic,

there is action
reaction and result.

And he says, if I can
only get my knife out

and I'll just stab the
bear in the neck as

many times as I can,
until it lets me go.

And he says, I remember
being so upset when

I stuck it in his
neck and I was only

able to get one stab
in before it really

started thrashing me.

And he says, but I
said, one thing, the

only thing I said the
entire time that this

bear attack happened.

And he says, I look back
on it and I'd like to

think that I talked to
the bear ahead of time,

like go away, bear.

He says, I don't know
if I did, but I do know

that the second I stuck
that knife and I saw a

russ of blood come out.

He says, now you're
bleeding too bear.

And that stuck with
him, that pre mental

programming is.

Got him to that point.

Is what he says,
saved his life.

And then the fact
that this other

fellow in the story.

The guy couldn't see his
face was all mauled and

he crawled out for miles.

Well, Colin gets up on
his bicycle, falls down.

He's only got one good
leg and he's got, you

can see his internal
organs through his back

apparently, gets back
up on the bike again.

And he says, I better
not fall off again

because I don't know
if I'll be able to

get back up again.

And he rode that bike,
I think it was seven

miles that he rode with
his one good foot kind

of pushing and peddling
based on the fact that he

downloaded in his head,
that you could do that.

Just like you said, okay,
you're shot or you're

stabbed, man that sucks.

But you know what?

I realize it,
and I'm not dead.

Right.

So that means I
can keep going.

Right.

Not giving up.

And, and, and that's the
thing, you know, like,

know ahead of time, I'm
not going to give up

if I'm conscious and
aware, I'm still in it.

And still in it, again,
we're not talking about

the fighting side of
it, but the getting away

from, and getting on to
return back to, you know,

your, your normal life,
what it, what it was.

And one of the other
things, when people

say, Oh, if it happens
to you once, it's never

going to happen again,
don't ever say that

one, trust me on that.

Um, but, uh, yeah,
getting back to this

so much of what we can
download to get us ready

for things is important.

And I mean, you know, the
lost art of reading other

people's experiences
and you know, now in

a, in a very, um, light
state of code yellow,

you know, when you're
on your next opportunity

to get out somewhere
where it's quiet and you

really are, you know,
pretty much devoid of any

threats to really study
a book that somebody

else has talked about
who's survived these.

You know, it's funny
because again, I

remember, uh, listening
to a lot of people saying

how many times things
have happened to them.

And that's the other
thing too, is not only

you prepare a head,
but did you learn

from the time before?

Right.

You know, and they
say the best predictor

of future performance
is past performance.

Right.

Take a look at past
performance, use that to

develop your heuristics
as you move forward.

And that's, what's
going to do it.

So, yeah, we, uh,
you know, it's very

important and we talk
about before and let's,

first of all, you know,
just a bit of a recap

will it happen for sure?

No, but it, it could.

Accept that it could
,don't deny don't,

uh, don't walk
into it oblivious.

Tell yourself, you
know, right now that,

uh, if something
out of the ordinary

happens, I'm going to
pay attention to it.

So I'm going to keep
myself in a state of, we

could even say curiosity,
you know, be curious,

but be out there in it.

And that yellow state of
relaxed awareness is, is

going to keep you above
you know, your sight

lines high, you're going
to be above the sidewalk.

You're looking ahead.

You're taking in
what's there and

you can, it also be
entertained by that too.

There's this, you know,
you've always got to

look at that side of it,
but getting completely

involved in whatever's
going on on your phone,

you now need to go
indoor somewhere, put

your back against a
wall, or, you know, make

sure that you've got
somebody with you to

watch what's going on.

Like that, that might
be a consideration

now, but for, you know,
three people to huddle

together with their
heads, touching, bent

over their phones, man.

Fuck good is that
doin.You know, you,

you, you wouldn't
see quail doing that.

I'll tell ya.

So anyways, that,
that state of yellow

ready to go to orange
when need be, because.

Hey, something doesn't
look right here.

Something I like the
absence of ordinary

has now a cap has now
occurred that something

doesn't look right
with a vehicle, the,

the way our vehicles
driving somebody slowing

down to look at you.

Somebody's walking
faster to catch up with

you or appears to be.

And that's the
thing, what does

it appear to be?

And in a state of
orange, you're going

to go, okay, this
appears, Oh, alright.

Oh no, he's just speeding
up cause he wants to

talk to his friend
because that person now

turns around and you
know, there's obvious

signs of a greeting
and that's legit.

And now you're back to
yellow and back to your

thing, knowing when to
go code red, that the

fight is, is no longer
imminent it's now on.

And then the behaviours
that you need to

display at that point
should all be thought

about before you go
into code red, right?

That's now that's,
that's in that

relaxed state of mind.

That's, you know, in
the time before I, I, I

lay me down to sleep is,
you know, a great time

to download the stuff
to your subconscious.

You're very receptive
at that time.

You think you're tired,
but you know, the number

of people will tell
you how they cram when

they study, before you
go to sleep and it, and

it comes back to them,
you know, it's good.

And that's, that's the
whole idea of this.

The time for NIC
cognition is not in the

middle of the fight.

Your cognitive
mind is going to

be gone, you know.

It's going to
be reactive.

That's right.

And if you're not
trained, you're, you're,

you know, it's not there.

If you're trained, you
know, and if you're

classically trained
in whatever discipline

it is, be it martial
arts firearms or

anything else, you
do so many things in

a reactionary way.

Um, Or I hate to use the
word instinctive, cause

it's not, but you use it
from a, at a subconscious

level, but you use it
efficiently through

repetition and training
that is there, that you

actually do get some
cognitive powers, you

know, to help you out.

You will be
stronger in that.

You're not gonna
just, you know, I

mean, I watched an
individual, uh, who

got into Muay Thai and
that individual police

officer was worried
about making themselves

better for the streets
and everything else.

And then they started
doing it, loved it, uh,

was having fun doing Muay
Thai was confidence level

was way up decided by,
uh, the instructor said,

you know, would you like
to fight a match, like

a legit, you know, full
contact match and pads

and everything on it?

Yeah.

Let's go for, it.

Took two punches in
the face and went into

complete, you know,
automaton mode and all

those skills stopped.

Windmilling now was
going in, you know,

screaming, trying to bite
everything until they.

What did Mike Tyson say?

Yeah, everyone's got
a plan till they get

punched in the face.

They get punched in the
face and that's what

happened, but, you know,
That individual learned

to gather themselves
from it and would later

be better for it, you
know, but that's just it.

Okay.

So a whole ton of notes.

I think we should
be looking at

wrapping them up.

Okay.

The there's going to be
things that we didn't

touch on and maybe people
listening or watching to

this would like to add
their own experiences

or things that they've
seen that works for them.

One thing I would
encourage is when

we're developing
our heuristics,

when we're doing our
scene assessments,

use all your senses.

Yes.

If you look at the person
and you see they're

obviously they got the
cauliflower ears and

it looks like they've
taken a few hits before.

They're not going to
shy away from a fight.

If you can smell alcohol
on breath, right.

Well, okay, they might
not act in the same way

that sober person would.

If you can hear certain
things happening.

And my buddy would
say, he says, you know,

weird thing was, um,
the dogs didn't bark

for the Taliban, right.

And he says, I don't
know if it's, the

locals knew that an
attack was happening

and they'd bring their
dogs in, but there is

an absence of normal,
the dogs wouldn't bark.

So he was bringing in
all the different senses.

And after a while,
it's just something

that will allow you to
write almost everything

off except for what is
the absence of normal.

Right.

I agree.

Why is that light out?

Why is, you know, Oh,
I just think it's so

many things when you
do that, but stuff

we pay attention to.

Well, why don't
we call it there?

There's a ton of stuff
we didn't touch on,

but this should be a
good primer for others

too, to build upon.

And they might have
certain questions that

we'll put into the
during, cause that's

going to be, that'll
be an interesting one.

And I know Paul
you've caught a

lot for that one.

Stay tuned.

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