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Unashamed Unafraid is a show dedicated to being unashamed about sexual addiction recovery and unafraid of coming unto Christ for healing. Pornography and sexual addiction are not something you are stuck with to manage your whole life. We share real stories of recovery, the best resources, information from experts, and answer anonymous questions with those who know. All to help you on the path of being 100% healed from pornography and sexual addiction.
Sam: Welcome to another
episode of Unashamed, Unafraid.
We are unashamed of sexual
addiction recovery and unafraid
of coming into Christ for healing.
Chris, just you and I today, man.
How are you?
We're the only ones left in the studio.
it is 1125 PM.
So we'll see if we can finish
this guy before 12 o'clock.
So interesting topic today, it's
kind of an opportunity for me
to step into my own recovery.
had an experience it was about
a month ago, it was actually
right before the last recording.
I was editing some things and I had to go
onto Apple podcasts, I needed to, update
something that I had posted incorrectly.
And as I was going through, I scrolled
down past a couple of our reviews, And one
caught my eye cause it said my name in it.
And this review was Super negative
and totally attacked my character.
I'm pretty careful not to go
looking at comments or reviews.
Cause I just don't care to know if
there's some troll out there on the
internet, that's going to say something
insensitive, So I'm kind of frustrated
I stumbled upon it, but as I scrolled
past, I stopped . And this is what I read,
Poser.
Two stars.
I've been around Sam both in
private settings and public.
And poser is a kind word.
He acts one way when he believes
people are watching him, and
totally acts another in private.
So which one is the real Sam?
In private, I've witnessed him be
rude, demeaning, and condescending.
Reminds me of the original host.
Which is referring to Steven.
And so dude, I read that and it
just hurt
Chris: I could see why
Sam: I just Felt super unseen.
Right.
Yeah.
I knew it wasn't true , but
old shame scripts totally got kicked
up I was so worried, like, dude,
people are going to see that and
they're going to know I'm a fraud.
That's, that's shame creeping in.
. I wish I could say I was the
guy that was just like, Yep, the
water just went right off my back.
Totally not true.
And sure . I didn't isolate, but.
Even after several conversations with
my brothers, it was still so much.
I ended up relapsing,
like, two days later.
I
Just
Chris: You're like, oh my gosh.
Sam: Totally.
Chris: This is another
reason why I'm worthless.
Sam: Right.
And my mind Started going back
through who could this have been
and what was it that happened
and I could think of two or three times
where I had a bad moment and I said
something that was insensitive . But
to be mischaracterized that way,
especially because I'm like, I'm
very open about the fact that I am
a guy in recovery and there's for
sure moments that I've hurt people.
But I'd like to be known as someone
who does make mistakes, but who
always tries to make repair So
I I want to talk about repair
today.
Chris: totally.
Sam: So, this person's
username was motocross Mick.
So motocross Mick, whoever this is
out there, Is probably dealing with
some deep hurt they need repair for.
.. From some judgment I passed
or a conversation I had or
accusation that I leveled.
I'm still unsure that
probably really, really hurt.
And for that motocross Mick, I apologize.
me In fact, open invitation if
you're out there listening to
this, , come on the podcast.
Let's have a conversation about it.
That'd be the most real
thing I can imagine
I think it'd be a really
powerful opportunity.
for us to settle our differences.
For us to show people what it really
looks like to live unashamed, it's going
to be heavy and it's going to be hard
totally, but it would be powerful and
it'd be healing for the people listening.
it would be powerful and healing for us,
So that's my invitation to you.
Motocross Mick, I'd love
to have that conversation.
On my part it's kind of a difficult
situation because it really did hurt my
feelings, but there's no one I can point
to, and so it's kind of this ambiguous
pain that I can't quite put it in a
file cabinet in my brain or in my heart.
And that's what, uh, that's
what I've been struggling with.
So this Is how I've, I've dealt with it.
Well, first of all, I relapsed, right?
So, that was my first novice attempt at
trying to deal with the pain of that.
And then, well, actually my
first attempt was I'm going to
connect with brothers, right?
But.
I eventually chose to just.
Numb out because it carried on more than
24 or 48 hours and I just felt like crap.
Chris: And a little test,
did that take away the pain.
Sam: No,
I had to continue opening up about it
and co regulating where
it was too much for me
rather than isolating.
Chris: Totally.
Sam: I reached a point about probably a
week after I had seen it initially where
I just felt like, you know, I'm okay.
And I started to I started to be able
to see it for what it was was that
this person just needed repair from
me, and probably from Steve as well.
but this Is what healing
is all about, right?
Chris: There's a couple things
that we look at with making repair
with those that we have hurt.
Sam: Yeah,
Chris: because of our addiction
but And we got to make repair
with our own hearts, right?
For the longest time, I had no idea.
. And didn't know my heart is
just bleeding everywhere.
I needed to make repair with myself
because I need to forgive myself
for everything that I've done.
The way I was showing up toward
my wife and how I was treating her
and just blaming her for everything
and the resentment that I had and
, totally make some repair with Autumn.
Sam: Right.
Chris: In that too because,
that's why I chose to do affairs.
Nope , this is Autumn's fault.
Even for a couple years
after I had sobriety.
I still blamed Autumn.
It was her fault.
Wow.
And then a couple years into like,
deep recovery I'm like, you know what?
Yeah, so that wasn't her fault.
I need to make some repair right there.
And, just apologized deep understanding
of accountability on my part.
For how I was showing up and how
I blamed her the way I saw her and
how I just the only thing I could
focus on was on the negative stuff.
Sam: Totally.
Chris: I went through all of it
with her and just apologized to her.
Sam: Honestly Chris, There's some
things I haven't forgiven myself for.
I thought I had until I read that
message and it that something like
that's always probably gonna hurt.
Chris: Totally
Sam: if the name sam was swapped
out for chris in that one like
There'd be some pain there.
Chris: Totally
Sam: But what added to the pain or what
made it so intense, what made it feel like
something that I just couldn't get past.
I couldn't regulate myself was,
I still feel
. Frustrated for not fully stepping
into the message that I, I preach
, from the pulpit per se, right?
And so shame is going to come
and do an all or nothing on me.
You're accepting those agreements again.
Totally, totally, cause then
suddenly shame was like, nah,
dude, you're so full of it.
It's crazy that you would come on
this podcast when you're so broken.
What gives you the right?
Yeah, exactly.
What gives you the right?
And so that's, what's been hard for
me, I had a really hard time when Steve
suggested at first, he's like, dude,
you should do a podcast episode on this.
And I was like, no,
We are not talking about that
on the podcast and he's like
that's exactly why you should
But I want to just be able to move on.
To your point, it's hard to live in the
pain of the blame you put on other people.
It doesn't just affect them.
It keeps you stuck.
Chris: All it does is it hurts you.
Sam: Right.
Chris: That's it.
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: Right?
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: Just like whatever
resentment they've got going on,
If they've got that resentment towards
you, All it's doing is hurting them.
Sam: And we're both
suffering silently in it?
I think this was from one of my old,
uh, 12 step manuals, Refusing to
forgive is like drinking poison and
expecting the other person to die.
Yeah, right I don't want to drink the
poison anymore It's like what steve
always says I totally drink the kool aid
right like I don't i'm not gonna drink
the kool aid on this one I did for a
couple days And I don't want to drink
the kool aid right so motocross mic
wherever you are out there I forgive
you Yeah, and whatever it was that I
said did whatever lines I crossed, I,
I hope, you know, that i'd love to have
a conversation with you at some point.
Cause you deserve repair
Chris: totally.
Sam: And we both deserve to heal.
Chris: Love that, man.
Many people out there just don't
know what repair may even look like.
So, the episode We Had on,
I can't remember the number.
But Becky was the one that did
it And she did the whole thing
that was all about making repair.
, For the betrayed spouse and man, what
I meet with some of my clients, I'm
like, , you both need to listen to this.
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: Becky just nails like what
repair is, is one of the biggest
things that stood out for me.
is to go to them and say, Hey,
what does repair look like for you?
Sam: Hmm.
Chris: So we may try to repair,
doing all these things and it's
actually not making repair.
Maybe it's making things worse.
Sam: Totally.
Chris: Thinking that we're making
Repair, but we're going to it in
defensiveness or whatever that is.
Going to that person that you need
to make repair with and be like, Hey.
I know I've hurt you What
does repair look like?
I know I can't make everything right but I
would love To see what repair looks like.
Sam: Right.
Chris: It takes a lot of
just to be in that place.
To be like, , What does it look
like for me to make a pair?
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: I had my Sister in law living
with us when I was having affairs.
I was doing all these things and
in the middle of my addiction.
And she and I were driving
home one time from, an event.
My wife ended up leaving
early with our kids.
This Is another reason why I'm
worthless it was really weird because
I've never ridden ever in a car
with her alone , ever like that.
That it was just weird And as
we're driving god is like this
is your chance to make repair.
And you know, I looked at her and I
said aubrey I just want to apologize for
the way that I've, been in my marriage
with, with your sister, but I also
want to apologize because if I ever
made you feel uncomfortable in my home,
I'm really sorry it was not okay.,
that's not me anymore.
And I just want you to know like, you
mean the world to me and I'm really
sorry for how I treated you and if
I really made you feel uncomfortable
and she goes, actually you never
did and I appreciate what you said.
she's like, you don't owe me anything.
But I really appreciate what you just said
Sam: probably built a ton
of trust with her too.
Chris: Yeah
And that that's the thing too that's hard
about repair too is like You can still
make repair for certain things, right?
But when they're still like
constant acting out, it's really
hard for that repair to feel real.
Sam: Mm hmm Yeah Yeah, man
You just hit, you just hit
some chords with me there.
You saw my eyes go really wide.
Chris: Totally
Sam: Well, yeah, because I had
that conversation the other day
with my wife and I said pretty
close to what you just suggested.
Like, what does repair look like to you?
You taught me that phrase.
I love that phrase.
But it was clear to me in that
moment, even in my penitence, even
my, in my humility, even in my
willingness, She didn't feel like we
could make full amends because she
was anticipating the next relapse.
It's hard
Chris: to ask her to heal
Sam: over and over.
I know, I know, it's like,
You know what I'm saying?
It's like, hey, there's a good likelihood
I'm gonna rip this wound open again,
but what do you need until then?
Chris: That hurts my heart thinking
about that because I know Autumn.
Sam: You probably saw that same
look in Autumn's eyes once.
Chris: Oh yeah, over and over again.
Sam: So I'm like, look, I, I know
these things take time, but I
understand full repair looks like full
recovery . That's what it looks like.
Chris: I was, as you were talking, I was
like, this is totally where we need to go.
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: Cause that's where
the action to meet the words.
Sam: Right.
And that's, what was so bothersome about
reading this review , I can say I'm
not the person that they depicted me
to be, but I haven't fully changed yet.
And at the end of the
day, sin is just damaging.
And Jesus is the only one that can
wipe that out, and it takes time.
Chris: The best way To make full repair.
is to find sobriety.
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: To live Your words.
Sam: Yeah.
Chris: Right live inside your
values, inside your value system.
That's why we call it acting out,
acting outside of your value system.
Sam: Totally.
. Chris: And I think that's where
like the deep healing can come from.
Sam: my own personal commitment to you
and to the, to the audience listening is
I've actually identified, as we've been
talking, Chris, that, and I thought I was
done, I thought through it, from every
single angle possible, is there anyone
else I need to make amends with, but
I just had a name pop up into my head.
I totally need to go make
amends with my sister in law.
So that's the first thing I want
to commit to doing is and there may
be one or two more names after that
if, as God reveals those to me.
But I Want to go make amends with my
sister in law because I'm realizing
there's some things I've done in
my addiction that have hurt her.
The second thing is I want.
To get to the point where I can express
my needs, my anger, my frustration
without getting to the point where
I become disrespectful to people.
That's a goal I have.
I want to take that seriously in my
life and make that, and that's going to
start in my relationship with my wife
because we have so many opportunities,
to practice that in marriage.
So those are my two commitments
coming away from this conversation.
That's what it looks like to have
a change of heart in my repair,
lasting repair, full repair.
And hopefully whoever posted this
comment, will come on the show at some
point.
. Chris: I know too, there's people
in my recovery that I've hurt
that I can never make repair to.
My affair partners, I'm not going
back to those, those people.
Sam: Right.
Chris: Like, all of them.
I don't have the opportunity to
go back and make repair to them.
I would love to.
, Like, I pray that God give me an
opportunity, whatever is right for
them, and if that, if that's something
that needs to happen, where I need
to make that repair in person, I
figure God will just make it happen.
Sam: Right.
Chris: The only way that I can do that
is by the way that I live my life.
Right, in
full recovery.
And that's why I want to help so many
other people, because it's a way for
me to get back, it's a way for me to
make repair in ways that I can't.
Sam: Sam, Chris, at UnashamedUnafraid.
com.
Shoot us an email.
Who do you need to make repair
to in your life right now?
What does that look like?
That's a huge piece of recovery,
forgiveness and repentance.
And on both ends, really what recovery
is about is about healing relationships.
And as they begin to heal, as it,
as we develop safe community as we
learn how to meet our needs and ask
for repair, and develop boundaries.
That's when true recovery happens.
As they say in 12 steps, the
opposite of addiction is Connection.
Thanks for watching.
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at Unashamed Unafraid.
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Thanks again for watching and until
next time, continue to live unashamed.