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Welcome to Travel Buddy,
presented by Switchfly.
In this podcast, we talk about all
things travel, rewards, and loyalty.
Let's get to it.
Brandon Giella: we are talking about
earning trust before earning revenue,
and we have two special guests
today, John Hanson and Alex Johnson.
Thank you so much for joining.
Welcome to the show.
Alex, I wanna start with you.
We are talking in this, uh, portion,
this segment about how sometimes.
Relationships and human beings on the
other end of our calls is the main way
that we actually establish trust because
human beings buy from other human beings.
And you have this great story
about talking about jerks.
Tell me about jerks.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, I think what's fun.
For us as salespeople is there, if you're
of a certain generation, you remember, you
know, death of a salesman and, and, and
salespeople have this really bad rap, I
think younger people might think of it as
like a used car salesman or, or something
along those lines or, or Grifters
trying to, to sell you junk online.
But what actually, you know, good
salespeople know what their product
is and the problems they solve.
And they try to find the businesses that
they can help solve those problems for.
And a lot of times you can still
come across those salespeople
that can just be jerks.
I mean, we've heard it, you know,
at Switch Fly, since we've been
here two years, we've heard over
five times that there are, you
know, experiences where they've.
Had just jerk of a salesperson and like
they want the technology, they need it for
their company, but they don't like working
with the person that they're talking to.
Brandon Giella: Not switch fly jerks that
not, not, they're not on switch fly Yeah.
Alex Johnson: In other,
other industry folks.
And uh, and I think that as we talk
about you trust, that makes it really
difficult as you hand it off to
another team, uh, that they wanna
work with and, and the long term.
'cause you're just
starting off on a bad foot.
And I think it's really important that.
You know, as we talk about trust,
that, that those first reaction, the
first interactions are, are really
positive and, and you want to, um, you
know, show that you care and, and that
they're, they're important to you.
Whether they're a large
or small enterprise,
Brandon Giella: That's right.
Yeah.
It's a, um, a strict no jerks policy.
Uh,
but the, the point is establishing
a good relationship upfront
actually leads to more.
Revenue later on if you can establish
that trust and there's ways of
doing that and not doing that,
we'll talk about those things.
So a question, um, I'll
turn over to John now.
Um, when you think about the difference
between a partner and a vendor, what
are some of the signals that you
think of that says, this is a partner
that's in it with me that I want to
work with rather than just a vendor?
What communicates that to you?
John Hanson: Vendors.
When I think of vendors, it's
often quick transactions, right?
Here's the keys.
Good luck partnership's, all about
establishing trust, establishing
yourself as that industry expert,
and really lead them on that journey
of what's their current solution.
And where are they trying to go and how
can we potentially help them get there?
Again, vendors, I think more of,
here you go, here, here's access.
Good luck with it.
Partnerships, and really how you establish
yourself as a partner is understanding,
get where they're at, where they're
trying to go, and how do we lead them
there, and what steps are we gonna take.
And then of course,
once the deal is closed.
What does the continued
partnership look like?
How do we set these mutual
goals and define what success
looks like for a partnership?
And it's a collaborative effort between
both parties to really define what
this mutual success would look like.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
Hmm.
Alex, anything to add on onto that?
John Hanson: I.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, I think he explained
it quite well and it, it really is
about, you know, a, a vendor, as he said
is a, a quick sign off, a partnership.
You never really are, are.
You never really stop communicating.
It is a continuous cycle and, you
know, for the length of the contract
and ideally renewals on onward.
So yeah, you're, you're gonna continue
building the relationship as you go.
And so partnerships as you start
off, you know, it's going to
be more labor intensive, more
meetings and, and a lot more.
On personalities and, and getting to
know the other people and how they
work and their communication style
versus, Hey, here's a contract.
We, we, we solve your problem sign.
Good luck right there.
There's gonna be some ongoing feedback.
Uh, you know, that ongoing feedback loop.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
John Hanson: and when I really
think of partnerships, it's
a lot of those mutual goals.
How do we work towards success and define
what success looks like for both parties.
Brandon Giella: Okay.
Uh, I wanna talk about, um, there's
this balance that I think every
salesperson has, especially when
you're trying to think of yourself
as a partner and building a
relationship, building the trust.
And this is a balance between like.
We are talking because there is
a, a business relationship here,
we are going to exchange money.
This at at root is a
commercial transaction.
And yet, I care about you as a human
being and I care about your business,
and I want to see your success.
But h how do you, how do you strike
that balance when you are talking
or going through the sales process,
trying to establish trust and relat
relational care, but also this is
a, a commercial activity at root.
How, how do you think
about that kind of thing?
John Hanson: So when I think about
that, it's really just establishing
yourself as the industry partner.
Not necessarily pushing them to the
sale, but providing statistics of what
have we seen across the industry, what
have we seen from our other partners?
Just show those success stories
without necessarily pushing them to.
Hey, we gotta sign this deal.
We gotta close this deal, but rather
lead them to that conclusion themselves
by being somebody they like, being
somebody that they can trust and
showing how we've done this at scale.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, and I
think adding, adding to that.
It's not always even just customer
examples, it can be examples of
deals you've had to turn down
or people you've had to, I think
establishing trust is, is huge.
If you say like, Hey, like we, I don't
think we're the right solution for you.
Or when you are reaching out
to me like, Hey, we don't know.
Like that's why we're, you know,
we have a lot of questions for you.
We want to make sure we find the value
and we, you know, a big thing that you
can do as a salesperson starting off.
And what we like to do at
Switchfly is like we will tell
you if we're not the right fit.
Like this isn't, uh, you know,
you can kind of talk through
what the future looks like.
You know, helping paint a picture saying.
If this doesn't work out for
either of us, you know, there's,
there's mutual benefit here.
We both generate revenue
from travel bookings.
We both, uh, you know, want to
scale together and grow together.
Switchfly is not a company that,
uh, has hundreds of clients.
We are more focused on very strategic
partners that we can grow long term with.
And so, uh, we can say it's like, if this
isn't to, if this isn't the right fit.
Then this causes problems with
our, you know, client support
team and our technical team.
We're doing all, spending all
this time building this thing for
something that, you know, maybe for
a market or an organization that it
is just not a really good fit for.
So using examples of times where, you
know, we've had a lot of, you know,
small travel agencies reach out to us and
they're like, Hey, we're looking for more
of like a, a Do-It-Yourself solution.
And we're like, that's
not really what we do.
Like Switchfly more we
integrate into points programs.
You know, we, you know, are packaging
travel products, but we're, we're not
for the mom and pop travel agency.
And so we don't want to make them
go through that ringer or charge
them an exorbitant amount of money.
Like to them, you know, these
small organizations that.
Really doesn't help them
or, or won't let them grow.
And by using examples like that, that
helps a company that we know we can
likely work with that helps build trust.
because we, we say like, Hey,
we're not in the volume game here.
We, we are for a strategic partner.
And we think that you could be that.
Brandon Giella: Okay.
Following that thread, uh,
how does confidence play into
establishing trust in relationships?
And I and I, there's a couple
of things going on here.
One is, uh.
like people that are confident, they
trust people that are confident.
If you come in, you're kind of wavering.
You don't know exactly what
you wanna say, you don't know
exactly how you can help them.
It's kind of like, I don't know if I
wanna trust this person or get in a
relationship or a partnership with them.
So there's that.
But then there's also like, uh, to
what you guys are saying is you've
gotta know who you're talking to
and that you can actually help
them and that you're a good fit.
So call it your ICP.
Call it, you know, you being very
focused at a organizational level, a
corporate level, knowing who you're,
who you're a fit for and who you're not,
but also in a maturity maybe in your
career as well, of knowing like, I know
I have a quota, I know I've got goals,
I've gotta hit these goals, and yet I
don't think I'm a good fit to take this
call or to continue this relationship.
So how do you think about confidence
kind of in those two veins,
like establishing trust, but
also knowing when to cut it off.
John Hanson: I think it's all a,
A lot has to do with transparency.
Where are you currently at?
Are we a good fit?
Based on what they're saying and
where their current solution is
and where they're trying to go,
can we help them achieve that?
I think for when you display confidence,
also you wanna share outcomes that
we have seen from similar clients and
companies.
Rather than making promises
of this is where we could go.
It, it all ties back to establishing
yourself as that industry expert
and understanding what they're
really looking for in a partner.
And rather than trying to convince them
or oversell it, we just share outcomes
that we've seen from similar uh, clients.
I.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, I think
transparency was a good word.
that John used there is, is, you know,
you wanna be confident that, hey, like
we have a great product, we've got a
great team, you know, we solve problems.
Uh, this isn't a, you know, nice to have
solution, but, you know, so you want
to come in confident with, you know,
what, what you know you're good at.
But I think when you said a balance,
there's also the, the vulnerability piece.
It's like, hey, like, well, like
there's a lot that we don't know
and that's our job is to help.
You know, uncover that and using
the examples that we used earlier
saying it's like, hey, now that we've
uncovered more like information, we
might not be the right fit right now.
You know, um, I think we're gonna
talk about it here, potentially su,
is that a lot of times we run into
roadblocks through the process and
a lot of times it comes down to just
the development for the development
team and, and timelines for a company.
I think that that's probably
our number one roadblock or,
or thing that stalls a deal.
And that's okay.
Like that means, hey,
this company's growing.
They've got things that they
need to build and we want show
value what we do at Switch Fly.
And as a, I think building trust
is saying, Hey, I understand that.
Like I'm not gonna push you to close this
or get started or overwhelm your team.
Like our team needs time as well.
Um, and, and really and, and
being vulnerable with them too.
Like, I mean, we've, we've
had it to where we've.
You know, had a successful quarter or
something and we have two or three, four
implementations and somebody's really
gung-ho and excited and we have to set the
expectations and be like, Hey, like, we're
glad you're excited, but we are, we are
at least a month out from being able to
get like truly started on building this.
And that's great for both of
us because we're setting the
expectation, laying the groundwork.
It, it adds confidence in their part.
They're like, Hey, these
guys are doing really well.
That all these people, it's validating
their decision to wanna work with
us while also we're being honest
and saying, yeah, we're not gonna
have you ready to go tomorrow.
Um, versus lying and or, or setting
like unrealistic expectations.
It's only gonna cause problems
for teams in the future.
Brandon Giella: Expectations is
a key component of that, that
confidence and trust building too.
'cause if you set realistic expectations,
A, it demonstrates expertise, but
B, you know that we've done this
before, but B, it says like, Hey,
this is just, this is what it takes.
I'm, I'm trans, I'm transparent with
the process and here's where we're at.
Um, and if you hit those, those
expectations, those timelines,
that builds a lot of trust.
And it also builds trust.
If you say like, Hey, I'm a human.
You know, like.
I don't know the answer to that question.
That's a great question.
Lemme get back to you on that.
You know, and that's a, like,
okay, he's a human being, you know?
Uh, so I love that.
Uh, okay.
So I wanna shift into, uh, a segment
about, uh, more in the weeds of
that trust building and creating
value and insight for the prospect
in the sales pro, uh, process.
So what does it look like for
you guys that you're, you?
Obviously, like in order for us to be
full partners and go through all the
things we need to be a client, we need
to have a signature, that kind of thing.
But uh, when it comes to the sales process
and marketing process even of giving
away insight and value before there is a
signature, how do you think about that?
Is it communication?
Is it insight?
Do you have, you know, materials
that you send ahead of time?
Like how does that work?
It.
John Hanson: Okay.
I think it's a combination
of all of that, right?
You want to, you wanna be ready to
strike when the iron's hot and they're
ready to make a move, switch, fly.
As Alex had mentioned, we need our
partners to be willing to have resources
available for the implementation.
And oftentimes they're doing their
own, their own, uh, development
and working on other projects
when we start these conversations.
So it's taking that prospect
through the cycle, providing them
different marketing materials that
is relevant to them, showing them
different case studies of what that
we have done with similar clients
and the success that they have seen.
And be ready to move once they're ready.
It's just, again, establishing that
line of trust so when they are ready,
they, they come to you for that.
Alex Johnson: Yeah.
And uh, I would also say, you
know, when you think about
things you can kind of give away.
You know, early on in our
conversations, I mean, with any sales
organization, I, I've been, I think,
selling software for 11 years now.
You, you always get like,
Hey, what, what does it cost?
Like what's it cost or
how, what are the benefits?
Always, like really right
off the bat and you're like,
uh, you know, you listen to any.
Sales, you know, consultant or, or hardo,
a person who's read every sales book.
They're like, oh, you've
gotta lead them to this.
Or, or you're like, make sure you never
give it away until you have this, like,
Switchfly is built a little different.
I mean, we have a commercial
structure that is mutually beneficial.
Like we are not successful
unless our partners are.
And so we're able to share that
pretty early on and right off the bat,
that helps us earn trust and it, it
helps us get like, it, it makes it
seem like this is less of a sales.
Pitch, uh, and is more of a, Hey, we
need you and you need us, like we, but
we, neither of us can be successful
without each other versus we are,
like you mentioned early on a vendor.
Who we are selling you a service
and you're just paying us.
That's how we make money, is
you just paying us directly.
And then obviously we would help,
you know, solve a, a problem or
increase value somewhere else.
It's like, no, like there are, our
commercials are set up to where, you
know, we are incentivized to make sure
that as many people can book travel
as possible and we both win together.
And that's something we can give
pretty early on in the process.
Uh, that I think, think
helps us out a lot.
John Hanson: And I think throughout
the sales process, a common theme
in my conversations is really
from the beginning, establishing
this, this relationship, it's
not a vendor relationship.
It is a true partnership.
There is a revenue
share component to this.
So in addition to just driving additional
engagement for year end programs,
you can also look at this as a way
to make more money for your business,
which ultimately, that's the whole
goal about every business, right?
Drive increased revenue.
Um, so of course we want to really
establish this is a partnership
and being a partnership.
Both have to give some, uh, we
need you to have these resources
available, and we'll also work to
set these mutual goals to define what
success looks like for a partnership.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I like that.
Uh, it's, you know, it's always better
to have the drive revenue conversation
than the reduced cost conversation, but
it's always a push and pull, and this is
always a debate in, in sales circles, is.
Do you lean into driving up the problem
and the urgency and testing your price
elasticity and your pricing power and
pricing as much as the market can bear.
But then there's like,
this is our pricing.
This is how we work.
This is a structure.
We are in it with you.
We want you to see how we make
our money so that you understand
what we're all about here.
We're on the same team.
You win, we win.
There's always kind of different dynamics
that can play in, but being a partner
and being as open as you can about
things, I think is always the way to
go to establish that kind of trust.
That's really
Alex Johnson: Yeah.
I think a good piece to
that too is when we share.
Customer examples.
There's, there's a thing that we do that
I think is helpful and this works, I
think, well, in pretty much any sales org.
Uh, no matter what the business is, is
like setting the right expectations.
So it's like, Hey, here's.
A couple case studies to show we've done
this and like, you know, this is why you
should believe that this is possible.
But also when we are putting together, you
know, uh, estimates or projections, right?
We, we basically say upfront, Hey,
we lowered these significantly to
show that like this is a possibility.
Uh, you know that, but it, this
is like an achievable goal that we
think is based on what you've done.
So it's not the, you know, obviously
the front facing case study that we
plaster everywhere to show everybody
that you know, how successful we are.
We make it say, Hey, this is,
this is like real expectations.
You know, these are our,
our achievable goals.
And when you basically do what you say
you're going to do, I think that's a big
part of it to where you're not leading
them into unrealistic expectations.
And we do that.
You know, fairly early on when we
speak to commercials is 'cause we,
we wanna give them an idea of the
revenue, the potential that there is.
But we set the bar pretty low to show
that even that bar that's, that's super
achievable is a huge win for both of us.
And then when you blow those goals
out of the water, like we've done a
few times, well now those people are,
those, those customers are, are quick
to wanting to build a, a case study
'cause they had this in their mind.
The, the, like they were down here and
now you know, the, the sky's the limit.
And I think that also goes into play
when we talk about relationship.
John John mentioned it too, and it was
really good, like relationship building.
You know, when you build a champion
within an organization and you say,
Hey, like we are partners, we are
going to continue to working together.
Especially, you know, not every
organization is this way, but Switch
fly works this way where John and I are
still, you know, very involved after we,
you know, solidify a a, an agreement.
And so during the implementation process,
during the, uh, launch phase and,
and even scaling growth, well, you've
built that champion and you, you make a
promise that you know, you can keep safe.
Like, I will be here
and I'll be available.
Um, if you need me, and we've had
situations arise where, hey, you don't
know everything that's gonna happen in
the scoping process or in the markets, or,
or, you know, things come up with clients
all the time and you have to adapt.
But if you said, Hey, I'm gonna be
here for you, and I get a text or
a call from my person and he says,
Hey, I need, I need you in here.
Like this is happening and we
need to come up with a solution,
and you make yourself available.
Well, now you've kept
that promise from before.
And now you've built, you've, you,
you've proved that you are trustworthy
because you made a promise you can keep.
And I think that's really important,
just doing what you say you will do.
Brandon Giella: such a great point.
I was, I'm reaching over here
to grab this book, uh, the
Speed of Trust by Stephen Covey.
This is such a great book to
talk about, that very thing.
When you establish that trust,
you have a great relationship.
You are the partner,
you've got a champion.
Uh, and when inevitably
life's vicissitudes.
Create a problem because
this is how life goes.
You have something to fall back on.
You can actually move a lot more
quickly because you can establish
that trust upfront and it's a, it's a
huge value add for the relationship.
John Hanson: I think something that
really sets apart a partner from a
vendor is stepping outside of their.
Your naturally defined role into doing
some of those more partnership things,
whether it's running different webinars
with their end programs that might
not have any impact on revenue for
you or your company, but you're just
trying to help them grow their program.
That's what a real partner is stepping
out of those defined roles to really
help see the success of the program grow.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Yeah.
At the end of the day, it's like, I, I
don't really care what your title is.
I just, I need help.
I have a problem.
Please help me.
You know?
So yeah.
As, as much as you can jump
in and, and help, that's good.
Uh, okay.
So I want to, uh, switch
to, uh, another segment.
Um, Alex, you kind of alluded
to this earlier, that, that
you are as, as all of us are.
You are one solution among
many in a market that has
many different alternatives.
Uh, some can call that competitors,
uh, but we live in this world where
you are not the only option available.
Sometimes though, a competitor
doesn't look like another
company that you can name.
It could be like, Alex,
what you're talking about.
Maybe it's development team speed.
Maybe it's a product roadmap.
The the client customer prospects
roadmap is actually the biggest
competitor that you have.
Could be delay, could be politics
within the internal team.
How many, uh, uh, sales newsletters
have you seen where it's like
your biggest competitors?
No decision.
And it's like, okay, no decision.
So talk to us a little bit about how you
see, uh, working through those kinds of
things from like a competitive standpoint
and how you, how you present your, um,
you know, just kind of work through
that in the trust building exercise.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, I think it's
about being flexible and that starts
with the organization, you know,
executive leadership team, you know.
Management, things like that is,
is the ability to be flexible?
Um, I think it's always
interesting with switch fly.
We've been around for 23 plus years,
but as the company has grown, it's
evolved and we've almost kept a startup
mentality the last several years
that have allowed us to be flexible.
And I think a big part of that is when
we, you mentioned a great one like
that we've talked about before is when.
You know, a customer
says, Hey, I love this.
Like, we want to get started.
Um, but we have like three new, you know,
development projects going on right now.
So it could be three months,
it could be six months.
It's okay.
Well, yeah, you know, we could
always sign a contract and, and we
could do all the, the, you know.
The, the, the paperwork stuff in advance.
But a lot of times the way maybe
commercials are structured or how,
like the timeline of launch and,
and really expectations both from
the customer and from internal
teams, uh, within an organization.
Being flexible helps a lot because we can.
You know, maybe switch one of our
commercials from, you know, x, uh,
to Y because that fits them better.
It also fits us, makes it more
sense for us because there's
less pressure on this partner to,
uh, achieve results necessarily.
But we know that we can secure them
as a partner, and by being flexible,
that allows us, you know, that
makes us look like a true partner.
Versus not just even a vendor, but
like another competitor's, like,
Nope, you have until the end of
this quarter or this deal goes away.
You no longer get those.
It's actually gonna be increased.
And if you don't hit X, Y, Z, you know,
X, Y, Z goal, you are, you know, you're
gonna owe us or something like that.
Everybody has the commercial structures,
they have like their policies and you
know, their preferred ways to work.
But being flexible really, you know.
Builds trust, but it, it makes
you want to be a partner.
It makes the you be a partner that
somebody wants to work with and feels
confident working with, so that if in six
months, you know, uh, they have a product
that just crashes or the development
side, or they lost three or four people
and that hey, we know, hey, switch fly.
We know we told you we wanted to
get started by here, or that we were
expected to hit these numbers by
this point, but here's what happened.
It's like, yeah.
Those things happen.
All right, we'll pivot with
you and we'll make this work.
Um, so I just think
flexibility is, is, is key.
And that doesn't happen in
the bureaucracies of larger
companies or, you know, just
very stubborn leadership groups.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
How do you, how do you know when,
when there's like a legitimate like,
actual problem, uh, that, that they like,
they want it, they're in, but there's
like a technical, I don't know, obstacle.
And when is it just like bureaucracy
and politics and how do you, how do you
kind of navigate both of those things?
'cause those seem like two different, uh,
ways of, of managing that relationship.
John Hanson: I'd say each, I
mean, each deal is unique, right?
Uh, so you have to have that
flexibility, that startup mentality
to be able to work with them.
Whether it's the bureaucracy of
it's slowing down the deal, okay,
well what, what can we do then?
Do we need to set up a call with some
of the other key stakeholders and talk
through this and really understanding?
What is the main reason?
Is it timelines?
Is
it development resources?
Is it budget?
And just really understanding
that, but it all ties back to
being that trusted partner.
We can make the move whenever
you are ready and whether if
it's technical issues, okay, well
let's bring in our tech team.
Let's sit down and let's go
through the documentation.
Let's understand where these technical
hurdles are coming from and what
can we do to overcome them together.
Alex Johnson: I think identifying
between the two, the, whether it's
bureaucracy, development, whatever.
I mean, there are buying signals and
there are like what we run into in sales.
I mean, it, it doesn't
matter what, what you sell.
This comes up a lot where it's, it's
like, oh, you have the raw, raw person.
Oh, I love this.
We, we totally need this.
We can get started with this right away.
But then that person who might be
a champion or you know, maybe not
necessarily the key decision maker.
Or one of several decision makers,
he takes that back and it's like
you have to temper expectations and
be like, all right, that's great.
So I think, you know, this comes down
to being patient, but also not, you
know, getting your own expectations up
until you see the real buying signals.
'cause a lot of the.
Challenges with like bureaucracy
or something you can see coming,
uh, early enough if, if you, if
you can catch it quick enough, um,
things come out of the woodwork.
A lot of times, like legal, you
know, you can see, hey, uh, there,
I mean there's ways around it.
We, we've, we've run into the past,
you know, legal taking like 2, 3, 4
months and it's like they've got other
things that they're doing as well.
Well, that, you know, our decision
makers have been very, Hey,
like, we're, we're ready to go.
Like, this is truly holding this up.
But then there are situations where like.
If you're working with the, you know, the,
like the CEO or the, the main decision
maker, they can influence like, Hey, I
need you guys to actually, like, they go
to legal and say, we need to wrap this up.
But if it is dragging out, you can kind of
start to understand it's the bureaucracy.
Like maybe they weren't a hundred percent
sold or we didn't have the right person.
And these are like excuses from maybe
your internal champion who doesn't
want to just straight up say like,
I actually didn't get all the buy-in
like I told you, and that can happen.
And so it is about being flexible, but.
It is kind of understanding and
asking the right questions as you
go through the process to understand
it's like, is this really development?
Or like, were you just not really sold?
I mean, it happens to us all the time,
like, and you, you wanna get excited as
well, but you have to pay attention to
like, what, what's actually possible.
John Hanson: And I think a lot of
it boils back down to trust, right?
Once you just establish that relationship
with your prospect, they trust you,
they're gonna naturally be more open, more
transparent of what's going on, what
are the actual roadblocks, and just
have that better understanding for
when the partnership does launch,
and you have that foundation ready.
Brandon Giella: It, it's a little
good Pat a good cop, bad cop, and
you gotta find out who's the bad cop.
It, it makes me think of the story.
I, I went to seminary and I had a
professor tell me, uh, if you're, you
know, becoming a new leader at a church
or something like that, you might have
your organizational structure within
the church or something, but there's
gonna be a little old lady in the back.
Back pew that's been there for 40
years and she is actually the power
center of this entire operation.
And if you don't know her, uh, 'cause
you're looking at the leadership
structure and she's not on it, but she
actually says what happens and what
doesn't happen in this church anyway,
it makes me think like, you always gotta
know who's a little old lady in this
organization that you need to know about.
You know,
uh, I don't know.
That's maybe neither here nor
there, but it's always been a
helpful little insight for me.
Alex Johnson: Yeah.
And I think in ways that, that's funny.
We, we have seen that, uh, before,
but also I think what made me think,
uh, you know, when we talked about the
bureaucracy piece of it as well, is.
You know, I, I mentioned earlier about
how some, you know, sales orgs or
companies, they'll like, put your feet
to the fire just because like, you
know, they, they might not be the the
best, but sometimes it is about like,
putting money where your mouth is.
It's like, hey, we, if you have built
trust and you've, and you've built this
champion, then you can actually say,
like, sometimes you have to just tell
'em, like, you know, I, I always try to
think of the right analogy 'cause I'm
from the Midwest and so we, we say like.
You know, go to the bathroom and get off
the pot in a less, uh, uh, um, nice way.
Uh, but it's like, hey, like we've
said, we're gonna do this and we,
we've accommodated you on X, Y, and Z.
If you can't, you know, uh, do what you
say you are going to do, then we're out.
And being able to walk away and like
truly believing that I think is, is
the hardest thing to do in sales.
But if you're willing to walk
away, I think that also shows the.
You know, your champion and or that
org that you're trying to work with.
You know, just how
serious you are in that.
Like what's important to us and them,
because we come across some of these
things where, you know, whether it's
the development or like the wishy
walk sheet back, back and forth,
or even just their communication
style might be a little more harsh.
It's like, do I want my team to have
to work with this going forward?
And I think that matters just
as much as closing a deal.
these people gonna be a
nightmare to work for?
Like, they don't want us to
be a nightmare to work with.
Why would we want to manage that?
I think it's really important.
So when you're dealing with those
different things, it's, it's identifying
is this, you know, actually the real
problem of why we can't move forward.
Uh, and, and kind of highlighting like,
hey, like we're, we might be willing to
walk away if this is, you know, how it's
going to affect our team going forward.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
It goes back to that confidence, you
know, knowing where your value is and
there is such a thing as bad revenue.
You know, it might make your numbers
look good, but it, it's gonna drive
your team nuts, you know, that kind of
Alex Johnson: It's the
whole 80 20 rule, like
20 20% of your revenue or, or, uh, yeah.
20% is gonna cause the most problems,
even though they might not be
the, uh, most of your revenue.
Brandon Giella: that's right.
That's right, that's right.
Okay, so last segment here.
Uh, talk to me a little bit about some
of the outcomes that you guys have had,
uh, recently and, and just ways that, you
know, you're working through this process.
Building trust, building, relational,
uh, capital, and then of course you
have those outcomes on the other end.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, I think one
really good one was we had a partner,
you know, it was a long sales
process and you know, we built.
Yeah, trust.
Like I, I had a champion, you know,
internally and, and was pretty high, but
was not the, the main decision maker.
And, you know, even throughout the
sales process, we had a few things
where the expectations were just
something that like we couldn't deliver.
Um, at the time it's like, you
know, they, they wanted, you
know, the, the full enterprise.
Uh, solutions that, but
for like, no budget at all.
And it's like, you know, you have to
temper expectations with those things,
but we were able to work around it.
And I think what was exciting was we
built by building that champion and
I, I mentioned like, you know, being
able to just get ahold of me like.
As a new organization and you
know, as a, or a new company,
things are constantly changing.
There's, especially in the
world of travel, right?
We, we deal with, you know, new laws
being made, new certifications that
are required and things come up and
I, I was really excited to have like,
you know, be able to, you know, my
champion be able to get ahold of me.
And, and it's like, oh wow,
you know, this is like, things
are hitting the fan right now.
Like, we should jump on a call
and get both, all of our teams
together to kind of work through it.
And I would say that they've become one of
our, our bigger champions in the market.
And, and it was because of the
fact that things didn't go right,
you know, throughout the process.
They, they weren't as smooth as you'd
want them to be in the sales process.
They weren't as smooth as we
were kicking or implementing.
And, and definitely as
we kicked off a program.
You know, new things came to, came into
play, but because we had built such a
good relationship with this partner,
we got through it pretty quickly and,
and, and somewhat smoothly to where now.
They're just, they're, they're
just running well to where we
brought them a new, uh, marketing
strategy, you know, just like a, a
new thing that we could help with.
And they immediately took the meeting
and we've now launched with that, right?
Because they trust us.
They're like, Hey, this will help us.
And I think that's really important.
Um, I, I think we're gonna have a case
study of that coming out really soon.
And, and that's just, that all comes
down to building trust and, and
building that internal relationship.
Brandon Giella: I love that.
That's such a great story.
John, how about
John Hanson: Yeah, I, I,
I could add onto that.
So just really driving the outcomes,
like we've had a deal that the adoption
wasn't what we were hoping or expecting.
So then whoever's owning that
from their side, they came to us.
Like, how do we drive this
more with the program?
And it, it involves us stepping
out of our naturally defined roles
to, Hey, do we roll, run different
webinars with year end programs?
Do we provide different marketing
materials that you can share
with your programs to really
get them excited about travel?
Know it's a different redemption
option for their users.
And really just talk about the
value props that comes for both them
as a com a company, and then they
can go speak that in their client
conversations with their account
executives, with their account managers.
So it's just really establishing that
layer of trust, that partnership.
It's, Hey, if it's not going the
way it's expected, why is that?
Let's, let's break it down and really
understand where these gaps are and
how can we overcome them by working
together and whether it be holding these
different webinars or holding these
different meetings with the end clients.
To ultimately just drive more bookings
and more revenue for the company.
Brandon Giella: Hmm.
So trust going in, smooths out
everything after the fact, and
then you can actually get to some
of those outcomes that you want.
Maybe on script, maybe off script, but
either way, you get to where you're
trying to go and everybody's happy.
It's a win-win and trust
is central to that.
Is that a fair, fair summary?
John Hanson: I think that's
a fair summary, that trust
and flexibility, right?
Nothing ever goes as planned.
Uh, every deal, every sales cycle.
It's all unique.
So it's just being able to
roll with the punches as
they come.
Brandon Giella: Yeah.
Amen.
Amen.
Okay, last question.
Yeah.
Last question for both of you.
Uh, where's a favorite
place you ever traveled?
John Hanson: I had say Italy,
Brandon Giella: Ah, okay.
Italy.
What part?
John Hanson: um, on the Western coast.
I just love the history and
the culture that Italy offers.
Some of the most scenic
and beautiful areas
of the world.
Um, yeah, I just really
enjoyed my time there.
Brandon Giella: I love that.
I love that.
Alex Johnson: my favorite solo
trip was just this last summer.
It was Ireland, but I gotta say like.
Doing yacht week in Croatia,
it's kind of hard to beat, so,
Brandon Giella: I wanna go with
you next time.
That sounds great.
Alex Johnson: Yeah, yeah.
It's tough.
It's, it's traveling's a a lot more
fun when you have 10 other people with
you than just a, a solo trip sometimes.
But, uh, both beautiful countries, you
know, I think that's why John and I
and Mo and pretty much everybody that
at Switch Fly got into it was because
we all love travel and we want to
make it easier for other people, so.
Brandon Giella: Amen.
Well, maybe next episode,
we'll do Yacht Week in Italy
and uh, we'll make it happen.
Alex Johnson: Sounds like a plan.
Brandon Giella: Sounds great.
Okay.
All right, John, Alex, thank
you so much for joining.
Uh, loved having you on the show,
and hopefully we'll see you back.
Alex Johnson: Thank you.
Brandon Giella: All right.