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Beyond The Message is a weekly podcast that dives deeper into the weekend’s teaching. Released after each Sunday service, it offers thoughtful conversation, added insight, and practical reflection to help our community process and apply what they heard. Whether you're revisiting the message or catching up, this podcast is designed to help you go deeper throughout the week.
Welcome to Beyond the Message,
the podcast where we take the weekly
teaching at Christ Community Chapel
and we bring it into your week.
Each week we sit down and we talk,
we laugh a little bit, reflect,
and then talk about how to live out
what we are learning.
If you have not yet
listened to the sermon,
go ahead and drop down to the description
and then come back and join us
and join in on this conversation.
My name is Stacey DiNardo,
and I'm joined today by Brooks
Montgomery,
Canaan Coffee and Jamie Hewitt.
Welcome, guys. Morning.
You got the boys this morning? Here we go.
Come on. Here we go.
Well, we are filming this right
after the start of the Winter
Olympics. 2026,
coming atcha.
And I wanted
to start by asking the question just to,
you know, loosen things up a little bit
for all of us around the room.
Jamie, Canaan, Brooks, myself,
who would you want to see,
participating, competing in a specific
event at the Winter Olympics.
So not yourself.
It seems as if a lot of us
have Jamie in mind
when we think about this.
Do you have anyone, though, Jamie?
I want to get started.
I think Brooks comes to mind.
And me? Me too. Me too.
It was, by the biathlon.
If you're familiar.
That's what I wish. I.
I feel like Brooks is an endurance
athlete.
Yeah, so there's the cross-country skiing.
I feel like Brooks has strong.
I don't know how this is going to.
I think you just 25. Yeah. He does.
And so I just imagine, you know, your hair
whipping
through the breeze on a snowy day
and then just dropping down.
And you know, I don't know
how far they shoot in the biathlon,
but just feels like that would be fun.
The combination of cross-country
skiing and shooting is a natural pairing,
I think.
I will say my Facebook Marketplace like
algorithm right now is cross country skis.
Lydia and I did it for the first time,
maybe a month ago, and I'm hooked.
So really well done.
I'm on the hunt.
So you really legit, like, let's go.
Now the rifle side.
I don't know how that would go.
Is it a rifle or a crossbow?
It's a rifle. It might be a.
It is a rifle. It is a rifle.
I like I would that's the event
I would like to do.
One of the most fun to watch.
Yeah, sure. Really?
I think so. I've never watched the cannon.
Thank you.
You're welcome. Okay.
Who else? Who else? Who do you see?
It was pretty.
The first thing that came to mind for
you was bobsled.
So a Jamie I think. Bobsled.
Jamie. For bobsled.
Yes. Okay.
It's a it's a it's you're a niche guy.
You have a lot of niche interests.
Yeah. I just see you.
This is
this is your sport. This is it.
This is it.
No, I don't I don't really have
much of an explanation behind that one.
Is there a solo bobsled or.
No. It's all.
No, you don't think so?
Team sport loses.
Skeleton is what I have for Conan.
Yeah, because
I've been called a loser before.
No, but that's okay.
Yeah, I just, I don't know,
I mean, I think what is that one?
You're head first
and you're just on, like a little.
It's like a tray. I don't know what it is.
Yeah.
Oh, you're like you're just going down
and it's like, yeah, it's
just you on a tray.
Oh my gosh.
You could wear a helmet. I'd be terrified.
Thanks for that option. Open luge I will.
I mean I was on yesterday.
They were going like 80 miles an hour,
so it's pretty lethal.
Do you have any other protection, like.
I think that's it.
I think just a helmet.
It's all you need, a helmet.
Basically, what I did.
How did
they decide
that was going to be an Olympic sport?
That's my question. I don't know. That's.
We could go down all sorts of tangents.
I just have one more
I got to put out there.
Brooks I'm sorry,
but I do feel like ice dancing, though
maybe I know I'm going
to think of one for you, not Stacy.
I but I since I felt like
I was off the table,
I know it was the decision because what
was the cycle between ice hockey and I.
I just think you could you fits.
You know, I could see you out there.
I could see you out there. Yeah.
I'm gonna head out.
Somebody had to have it.
I had to, like, with three guys on here,
I was like, somebody gotta know.
Curling alliances
either. Stacy, curling is good.
My selection for you is an alternate
for the ice dancing.
And also because you
you were just under it.
That's making our squad with
that sounds right.
Okay, well, let's jump into to this week.
This week is a standalone week.
We just finished More Life.
And I just want to point out
Mike did a great job.
Pastor Michael Ward spoke
of talking about our standalones this year
and that they're kind of very practical,
even disciplines, as we're thinking
about how to build up in our Christian
walk, this year.
So this week was about service
and about serving.
And he went to Mark 1042 through 45.
And just to touch on
that is a great passage, but,
43 starts,
but it shall not be so among you.
But whoever would be great among
you must be your servant.
Whoever would be first among
you must be a slave of all.
For even the Son of Man came not to
be served, but to serve,
and to give his life as a ransom for many.
And the points that pastor
Mike had to kind of walk through,
that is the life that we are vulnerable to
and kind of speaking about
just being susceptible to, conditioning
ourselves to be like the world around us.
Basically the life that we are invited to
and the life that we say yes to.
And that again, centering around serving
and really being a servant.
So, to get things going,
I thought we'd kind of start by taking
a look at a clip and then thinking
and talking about that again.
We're kind of really teeing up
where Jesus is.
Mike is talking about how Jesus is saying
not just to go and serve,
but that that is more
of an actual identity of who we are.
So let's watch that
now, and then we'll jump in.
Be a servant of all.
And that, that that word really struck me
this week, right?
It would have been easy for Jesus.
Say, go and serve, right?
But he doesn't say go and serve.
He says, go and be a servant.
There's a difference
right between an action
right and an identity,
something that we do on the side
a little bit versus
something that is central to who we are.
Right.
If someone were to ask you,
hey, are you a golfer?
And you would say, well, I play golf
a little bit, but I'm not really a golfer.
It's on the side. Right.
Because it's not that central
to who you are.
If someone were to ask me,
hey, are you a musician?
Right?
And you say, well,
I play an instrument a little bit,
but it's not really central to who I am.
There's a difference
in how we think about those things
between an action and an identity, a noun.
And I've heard what Jesus is saying.
He's saying, don't just go and serve.
He's saying, be a servant.
So any initial thoughts
as you think about that kind of the,
identity versus an action
now, not a verb
and just being a servant versus serving.
I know it struck me in a couple ways, but
anyway, yeah,
I remember being a fairly young Christian
and reading a book called Celebration
of Discipline by Richard Foster.
Great book.
And there's a chapter on service
and like this is the takeaway
from the whole book for me.
I remember from when I read it
the first time, was he'll talk
about the difference between serving
and being a servant.
And the biggest thing that he points
towards is that when you are serving,
you are still in charge, that you are
the one who's making that choice.
Yeah.
And I remember, you know, being a like
serving tables at one point in my life.
Yeah.
And if you've got a good table
and you connect with them and like,
you kind of see where it's going,
you're like, okay, this is possibly
like a good tip.
Like you go back to that table
like few extra times,
like you really serve them well.
And then sometimes
if you've got a table that you're like,
these people are kind of jerks.
Like, I don't think this is going
to be like profitable for me.
Sometimes you're like,
okay, I'm just going to minimally,
I'm going to do the basics and that's it.
But that's kind of the mindset of serving
where you're choosing to do it.
You are in charge.
You can do it if you want to.
You can opt out if you don't want to.
But when you are a servant
and you give up being in charge,
you are saying, hey, I'm going to do this
regardless of what comes back to me.
I'm going to continue to lower myself.
And, you know, he'll talk about
and I don't need to keep talking forever,
but it's a willingness of being lowered.
It's, letting go of being in charge.
It's opening yourself up
to be hurt sometimes.
But then he'll also talk about the freedom
that comes from that.
Because when you understand that identity,
you really put yourself in a position
where you,
you really can't actually be harmed,
because love chooses
to give itself away always.
And so there's another book
called unaffordable
that kind of hits at that same,
same mindset.
If you understand who you are
and you lower yourself like you really
can't be hurt.
So that's a lot of that stuff flooded back
as I was listening to Mike preach.
Yeah, yeah.
You know, thinking,
about Philippians two,
where Jesus talks about humbling himself
towards obedience and it
I don't know if I've zeroed in
when Mike talked about this,
I really thought when, you know,
it was real intentionality
taking the form of a servant, it's right.
Yeah.
Where Jesus himself
like taking the form of a servant.
That's much more than just service.
Duty. Language like that is personhood.
That's identity for Christ.
And I think starting to consider
what does it look like for obedience
and taking the form of a servant
to be connected?
I think for me personally, it's
like when I'm serving and doing something
that might cost something of myself
that might be difficult.
If it's purely an action, I think that's
going to be very hard for me to persevere,
to continue to give up of myself,
to continue to be obedient.
But if it's something intrinsically
that I am
convinced of and bought in,
that's part of me because of Christ.
Then when Jesus asks me to do something
that's incredibly uncomfortable, right?
Even if by action I don't desire it, if
it's part of my identity, part of my core,
what I believe, what I desire,
I think that's what hopefully
leads towards perseverance, right?
So even just considering
Jesus never invites us to do things
he hasn't done,
Jesus doesn't sit on a pedestal
and say, serve when it gets hard,
but he himself took the form of a servant
by dying on a cross.
For us, it's like, man,
there's no greater role model
example,
everything, that Christ asks us to do.
Yeah, yeah.
And I'll piggyback off that.
I'm glad you referenced Philippians two,
because I went to Indiana University
and our athletic department,
that was our our program
verse was Philippians two one through 11.
And this idea of, yeah, doing
nothing out of selfish ambitions,
but in humility, counting others
more significant than yourself.
So I love that verse. It hits home for me.
And it's specifically
in the basketball program.
Our motto is I am third.
And so my kind of reference
to this idea of God first,
other, second, yourself third.
And so my coaches exemplify that seniors
I did my freshman year.
And so that was something for me
that I think has just been
over and over and over
shown to me and ingrained in my mind of,
yeah, living that
life of family, not just when you want to,
but making it a full lifestyle.
So yeah, I, I love the picture of just,
I mean, really,
if you look at Jesus in those moments
when you were going me first, me
first, or I'm doing this action
out of duty or whatever, and it
I don't know, it struck me going,
I just need to look at Jesus.
He would do what he did.
Yeah, he is the example of that and
is has made himself completely a servant.
And of all
you know that should not have wrote so.
But I wrote down real quick,
like a quote from Mike where he said,
If the King came to serve sinners,
then why would I, a sinner,
not come to serve the King?
Yeah, plainly so good. Convicting. Yeah.
And that's Paul's language
in Philippians two,
where also, you know,
consider others better than yourself.
And then I'll say, looking to Jesus
so that we would look at him and say,
man, if he has done this,
how can I not follow him?
And yeah, I wonder too, if you know,
sometimes if you can get stuck in going,
well, I don't know how to just get there
or if, if the action can eventually
the form of taking action to serve
can eventually kind of begin
to turn into identity.
So I don't know, we can unpack that later,
but what about to flip it a little
bit on its head?
Are there ways that you think
we can take service too far or be,
I don't know, just kind of too far
and just not living in a way
that even God would want us to.
As we are serving,
I mean, I think there's when you open
the New Testament, it's like even
I was saying about Matthew 23
where Jesus is talking to the Pharisees
and he kind of calls them,
you know, image of a whitewashed tomb.
That's right.
Like on the outside
looks beautiful doing the right things.
But internally you're missing Jesus.
Even I think at some point Jesus says,
you read the scriptures,
but you miss me in them.
And so you miss the life.
That's part of them.
So I think there's a way
Jesus would probably say,
there's a way in which you can serve
and be adjacent to Jesus in a way
you can serve and be abiding in Jesus.
Yeah.
And I think that, oftentimes,
service will
be exhausting and very difficult for you
if you're purely doing it
as a way of earning, something.
Yeah, as a way of trying
to, like, make amends for something versus
a way of abiding in Christ and saying,
listen, I'm a complete sinner.
But if you came to serve me,
then there's no greater reaction
than serving you like the adjacent versus
abiding paradigm in my head
is kind of a way to think there must.
Jesus must say, there is a way
you could serve and miss me.
Yeah. Which is sobering. Yeah.
And I think that's even
maybe connecting back
to our last conversation
or the last part of it is like,
I don't know if you can be a servant
and miss it
because if you really are saying,
I know who I am, and I know that
like I am low, that I have been rescued
as a sinner by Jesus,
like I do not deserve to be over anyone
or anything, I don't know.
I think you are much.
At least you're protected from getting it
wrong than if you are serving you.
I just think of Luke 15 and older brother
and he's serving.
He's doing all the things.
Did I not do this for you?
And yet you didn't, like, even give me,
you know, a small gift
that I could have a party with my friends.
But his heart, his mindset is I'm
actually serving in order to get overtop.
Yeah. And so if you really understand, I'm
a servant.
Like I have received everything by grace.
Yeah.
Then I don't know if you are
is inclined to get it wrong.
Yeah, in a sense to your question.
But yeah, I do think Jesus is not somebody
who invited people into half measures
like Jesus.
That's so Jesus would say there's,
you know, I don't want some.
I want I want it. All right.
And so, you know, he would say, hey, come,
if anybody's going to come after me,
he needs to take up his cross
and follow me like we need to be willing
to be come servants
unto even the point of death.
And so I think the answer is I don't.
If our heart's in the right place,
I don't think we can take it too far.
Yeah,
I don't I would just want to point out,
I think there are ways
we can absolutely miss the mark
though, too.
Like, I think if you're serving to earn
right to make yourself look good.
I found myself last night.
I was here because we had the 24 hour
prayer, and I was helping
wrap up the time, and I knew we were
doing this and was thinking about service.
And and I was like, you know what?
I'm going to go clean up
some things that I know
it's not my job to do,
but I'm going to go clean that stuff up.
And I'm thinking, like,
I'm doing this and I'm going to I'm
going to make these people really happy.
And but again,
I was doing it thinking partly even going,
I want
myself to look good in how I'm doing this.
Right. Yeah. And go ahead.
And I'm again, I knew we were doing this
and was thinking about it,
but I mean, my heart's awful
all the time in just thinking
through all the ways that we can do it,
either as like serving.
I think Pastor Zach said this this week,
but serving as a means to itself,
an end unto itself, like it's not,
but also just to make ourselves
look good or believing
that we're going to earn favor in favor
from God, or even favor from other people.
So, I mean, the humility posture
from even,
sorry, I'm going off a little bit
right now, but Mike even talked
about the relational component of saying,
you know, that power of you towards
someone or a peer or putting yourself
underneath someone and just, you know,
from your relationship
with a spouse to parents to
is your posture one of,
wanting to lift them higher?
Right. And that's one of humility.
So that's one thing I
sometimes I think, people
can get a little frustrated because,
to serve at our church,
you know, you first
have to become a member of this place
and have to be baptized.
And sometimes you can feel like,
why do you want me to take that step of
proclaiming my faith, of making sure I'm
a Christian before I can start serving?
Yeah.
And one thing I love is,
I think inherent in this conversation is
we as a church, want to make sure that,
like the reason you're serving
is because you are overflowing
with the love of Christ.
That's right. Experienced? Yeah.
And we never want anyone to confuse it
because it's easy.
I mean, how is it for all of us to say
I mean, how how sinister, perhaps,
is the temptation to say,
If I'm serving, then I'm doing something.
You know, Jesus is going to be proud of me
or favoring me in a different way.
It's like, no, that the paradigm
is this lose your life to find it.
That's right.
And that's why even as a church,
I love that we make that step.
Serve as follows A declaration of faith.
Yeah. Experiencing the love of Christ.
Yeah.
Yeah, totally.
Yeah.
I think there's a
there is that temptation like to, Yeah.
I'm, I'm doing it for, for myself.
I'm doing it for. Yeah.
Whether it's earning something,
whether it's favor in in relationships,
friendships, anything like that.
And ultimate, I think sometimes for me,
I've had to just jump
in, maybe without proper heart
and allow the Lord to work in my heart.
That's right.
As I began to serve,
and that's, you know,
and I think that and I think that's okay.
I think the Lord can work through that.
If you have a willingness to go there.
Now, I don't know your heart.
I don't know you.
I don't know your heart.
And so that's the
the part of it to where we need to, Yeah.
Be honest
with ourselves about where we are
and where our heart is, or else, you know,
I don't know how the Lord, could work.
That's to work through that.
So, yeah, I want to just point out to
in this passage,
Jesus is talking initially to,
people that are that are approaching
leadership in an incorrect way
and handling power and position
incorrectly.
So just kind of thinking about that more.
I think leadership
today can still have the mindset of, like,
I want to climb the ladder.
I want to have the most authority
get the promotion at work
and all that kind of stuff.
And how can you apply
with this mindset of service?
How can you apply right
thinking to a success in a career
and even want to ask the question of like,
is it wrong to be ambitious?
Like, is that counter to serving
or to having to being a servant?
Any thoughts on that one?
I think it matters where again,
where you're aiming at.
I think of passages that come to mind
that maybe hit on ambition and excellence
and, you've got places
where it'll say, hey,
whatever you do, whether you eat or drink,
do all things to the glory of God.
And then it'll say whatever
you do in word or deed,
do everything in the name of Jesus.
It'll say whether you,
you know,
if you speak, speak the oracles of God.
Yeah.
If you serve, serve
in the strength of God.
Yeah.
And so every time that we are called
to pursue excellence in,
you know, ambition that's supposed to be
every part of our life,
we're supposed to think that way.
But every part of it is aimed at God.
That's right.
His glory and and his goodness.
So, you know, I think in that way, we are.
Ambition is great
as long as we are trying to lift up
God ultimately and not ourselves.
That's, you know, easier said than done.
Should I just say that,
like hundred percent?
Yeah.
So I think of, you know, opening
up, opening up the Bible.
Hey, what do you see? Right.
And I think in this text, it's easy to
say, oh, this is a text, this is a mark.
You know,
where I'm blanking, where we might
tend to.
Yeah. It's about serving.
It's about service.
But it's interesting how much greatness
is talked about in these verses where even
Jesus says, hey, if you want to be great,
because that's really the conversation
that's happening, here's a conversation.
Yeah. Read this. Yeah, yeah.
And it's interesting that Jesus doesn't
somebody will be at his left and right.
You just says that's
not it's not going to come the way.
Exactly. Right. Yeah.
Jesus does not go to them and say listen
a desire of greatness is is horrible.
That ambition is horrible.
Rather, he says, the economy
by which you understand
your grace will define your life
and your eternity.
Right?
And so for Jesus, it's a matter of, hey,
if you want to be great, lose yourself.
If you want to find your life, right,
pick up your, like all of this
narrative of the of the Gospels
and even in, you know,
just thinking back to Joshua, one where,
you know,
Josh was going to the promised Land,
he says,
you know, don't turn left
or right from the Word of God.
Hold tightly to it, and
you'll have good success wherever you go.
It's like our understanding of success
and greatness.
Is it linked?
I mean, really, to the whole vision
of more life as our church?
That's right. Yeah.
And you think of these things.
Do you think of yourself?
Do you think of material things?
Home, money,
all right, or are you thinking about.
Yeah.
A greater relationship with Christ. Right.
A greater desire and closeness with him.
And so even in leadership,
it's like you can lead and be great
in God's kingdom.
Yeah.
It's just a matter of how are you going
to pursue your greatness or Jesus's.
Now yeah, I think very simply it's
just about the heart you know.
That's right. What's our heart.
What's our pursuit.
What's our ambition.
What's our. Yeah. What's our drive.
And that is like I,
I had hoped to kind of dialog around that
for that point because it's again ambition
as of itself is, is fine.
It's it's rooted in what is it rooted in.
So you can use that power
to lorded over people.
And that's awful, right.
You can go, no, I want to serve people.
And and that's at the root of it. But,
well,
the starting to kind of wrap things up,
I thought it would be good
just to take a minute
or two to talk about the best way to,
to think about to apply this week
in thinking about serving and service and
having that identity as we move forward.
So there are two things
I wanted to talk about.
First of all, we are plus one.
We call it a plus one.
It's like if you're a member,
you've gone through membership class.
We talk about a plus one, two and three.
That plus one is serving
and that is serving here in this context.
And I the only reason I bring that up now
is I wanted to point out when we kind of
thought through how to order things,
we did that plus one as serving before
getting into a small group and circle
before doing those other things.
First, because we believe
we need to orient our hearts
with a posture of humility
and serving others.
So that's why it is the first step
that we kind of point people to take.
So obviously that's a step to take. But,
Jamie, I love this.
And you can unpack this for all of us
a little bit,
but you put a question in your circle.
Questions for this week.
That was, can you think of a relationship
where you need to lay down
your preference, power or control
and you know,
we can think about the outward stuff
we can do and in a church context
or in our community.
But I think it to start,
you need to start in those
your closest relationships oftentimes.
So I don't know anything
you'd want to add to that or
you know, now
you said you want interesting question
to add
anything I feel I mean, even like,
the relationships that are closest to you,
you should probably look at, you know,
I think of my relationship
with my with my wife and my kids
and how often,
just because of my proximity to I'm, like,
spending so much of my life with them.
I think that they're I'm going
to have the opportunity of,
am I king here or am I a servant here?
Am I looking for my comfort
and my preferences or not?
And so even sometimes,
like, I will serve
but out of, wrong heart, like,
you know, believe it
or not, Carolyn and I will get in a fight
every once in a while.
And sometimes I'm, like,
cleaning the house, but, I'm anger
cleaning or,
you know, in order to try to have leverage
in a sense, or protect myself
from her having leverage over me.
And I'm, like, doing the right thing
in a sense, but I'm doing it totally
for the wrong reasons and was just
reflecting a little bit on that.
You know, when Mike shared in his sermon
and he's talking about laying in bed
and pretending, pretending to be asleep,
and I was like, guilty.
Thanks and thanks for making me
remember that, Mike.
But, I think every day
there are these small moments,
but the relationships that are closest to
you are good ones to think through.
Probably all of us.
Yeah, absolutely.
Thanks for asking
me to put you on the spot.
I, I okay, this is really vulnerable
moment here, and then we'll wrap up.
I just remembered there was,
a moment, honestly,
just a couple months ago,
where with my husband and I, I was
I was not I was not in a good space.
I was pretty angry.
But it was also at a time
he had just come through having a surgery.
And so I was like serving him out the,
you know, like doing whatever he needed.
And I actually he said something to me
about not having compassion.
Oh, man, I might have gone to ChatGPT
and said and said,
can I sacrifice without having compassion
or something like that?
And it was like, absolutely, you can do
this out of duty, you can do this. Me.
And I was like, yes, that's
what I'm doing right now.
But I do think it just reminded
you of having like,
it is so about the heart and knowing like,
yeah, we can still do the right things,
but without a posture of being a servant,
without desiring to,
you know, really lay ourselves down.
So and I think that was really impactful.
Mike's, two points
at the end of his sermon about
how do you move towards serving.
Yeah, our hearts change and minds
convinced.
Yeah.
And so much that I love it.
It's like disciplining yourself.
Yes. To be intentional with abiding
in Scripture and abiding in prayer.
But so much of it's also just inviting
the Holy Spirit to say, yeah, yeah,
I have no ability to soften
my heart to make it more caring for.
So to help me out,
yeah, it really is inside out.
No, no, that's right in.
And so many of us
will try to approach this
and just be like, I need to try harder.
I'm going to white knuckle this, but it's
without a full picture of who Jesus is.
Like, we will not be able to overflow,
which is really God's
design and desire for us.
Well,
thank you guys so much for joining me.
And yeah, really appreciate it.
Till next time, thanks so much
for tuning in to be on the message.
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