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Conversations regarding information and the expression of creativity from within the industry.
Good day. Welcome to the 3rd episode of the Cold Blooded Contributions podcast, which is part of the MTR network. We're your host, the Ipers. I'm Scott Iper with me as Ty Iper. This podcast will bring to you people in the hobby who have made an impact on us creatively, be it artistically, with information, or even improve your husbandry.
Speaker 2:We're lucky enough to have Josh Vistuca with us today.
Speaker 3:Oh, that's my cue. Yeah. Hi.
Speaker 2:Josh. I realized we're a bit behind, but we're good to go now.
Speaker 1:Technology certainly hasn't been our bloody friend tonight. That's for sure. Good day, Josh.
Speaker 3:How how are we all?
Speaker 2:Good. How are you?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Good. Good. Good. Good.
Speaker 3:I suppose I'll give a little intro to who I am for those that maybe haven't heard of me as of yet. I suppose, we'll start with the the unique definition of where I'm at at the moment is a career starter, in the sense that, I am currently completing a degree in wildlife and conservation biology at, Deakin down here in Melbourne. I've been a a private keeper of reptiles, for the last 6 or 7 years now, I think. And I work as an animal technician at a local high school, which for those in Melbourne, you might have heard of Lilydale High School and Templestowe. It's not either of those 2.
Speaker 3:It's just a a a Catholic school, down here out in the west of Melbourne. Excellent.
Speaker 2:How did you get into reptiles, Josh?
Speaker 3:It's one of those one of those funny ones. So I suppose I'll I'll start by saying a lot of people, some people when they see, me, particularly at reptile expos, I'll usually have my setup and have my dad with me. And, people often go and talk to to him first thinking that he's the one behind it all, which is quite ironic because he just does the smile and wave and point at me. So it wasn't a family thing. It wasn't a passed down through generations type thing that some people have experienced.
Speaker 3:For me, it started very very early on with a keen interest in dinosaurs and that sort of naturally flowed onto reptiles. But it sort of really just started as me growing up, watching lots of wildlife documentaries. So it was predominantly Steve Irwin, David Attenborough, and Steve Backshall, things like that, which was really where I sort of started that passion. And instead of watching kids cartoons all day, that's what I was watching growing up. And then, as I sort of got a little bit older, some of my mom's work friends decided to go on a a holiday.
Speaker 3:And, at the time they had some turtles and a a shingleback and a blue tongue. And I didn't really realize that reptiles as pets was a thing that people did. I'd that was not something that I'd experienced. I've been to the zoo a bunch of times and seen that side of things and thought that was, you know, the main thing that people do, and then you just have a dog or a cat or maybe a fish as a pet at home. But they needed somebody to look after those animals.
Speaker 3:And knowing that I was passionate about reptiles, they asked me to do it. And they kept mentioning this this reptile store in Hoppers Crossing. And I'd at one point, I went, alright, mom, let's let's go and have a look. Sure enough that turned out to be a shop run by Adam Sapiano, who is now the president of the VHS, and I believe would have been at the time as well. So it sort of snowballed from there.
Speaker 3:I came home with, my first blotched bluetongue, who I still have today. And then within, I think, a year or 2, it snowballed to upwards of 10 blue tongues and then sort of it shifted around a few times from there to where it is today. But, yeah, it was very much a very quick build up process. And I was very lucky that it started started with the VHS and the people involved there, because it gave me a really good sort of foundation to go off. And I was I was starting the right way, rather than whether it's starting with, you know, wild animals or, starting with setups that aren't quite where they need to be.
Speaker 3:I was introduced to what was required from the get go, which really gave me a good foundation to move on from from there.
Speaker 2:The VHS has a wonderful family feeling to it. Like, it's all inclusive. It it really is a great, society.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think the VHS, I mean, that that sort of, feeling in the VHS was really fostered by, Brian Barnett, back in the the seventies eighties, and it's just sort of been maintained pretty much all the way through, which is which is pretty awesome. I was a member of the VHS from 1987 onwards. So, you know, a little war. Yeah.
Speaker 1:So so what else do what are you keeping these days, Josh? You said you got, a blotched blue tongue that you've had since the start. What other, other critters are you working with?
Speaker 3:Yeah. So it's, been a bit of a a a process of, I suppose, evolution is probably a good way to put it. Started
Speaker 1:mate. Refining.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's probably that's probably a better way to put it. Yeah. I I started off very heavy into, blue tongue morphs and stuff like that, at the time, and I'm still lucky to be very good friends with, Jobal, who at the time had come down to Victoria to do a talk at the VHS, which sort of lined up perfectly with me starting to get into reptiles going, that's so cool. Look at all those colors.
Speaker 3:So that's where I sort of started. And then I sort of started to shift towards, locality stuff. So I started looking at, Murray Darling, Carpet Python localities and that side of things. And then it sort of got to a point, I was in year 12 and had a lot more blue tongues than I needed and a lot more animals than I needed. I went, this is not conducive to what I wanna do down the track.
Speaker 3:So I've sort of spent the last probably 18 months to 2 years cutting down the collection to what I think is a whole other story that we can circle back to, I have, whole other story that we can circle back to, I have 3 adult Murray Darling Carpetons and a young woma python that I just got at the last expo just gone.
Speaker 1:So the cutting down is working out for you?
Speaker 3:Almost. Yeah. Almost. I suppose I managed to sell a few things on the day, so I feel like it balances out as a a net negative. That that's the way I put it at least.
Speaker 2:Let's go with that. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just justify it any way you like, mate.
Speaker 3:That's it. That's it. Yeah. And then outside, I've got a group of king skinks, a pair of eastern water dragons, trio of land mullets, and 2 blotchys still.
Speaker 1:So you got rid of the multifaciata?
Speaker 3:I I did. I've put them in some, very capable hands of, one of my best mates. He's got a group of 4 of them now, so hopefully, he'll be able to get them going. We did try again this year. I was lucky enough to get them going last year, but there was no dice this time around.
Speaker 3:But I think, yeah, either next year or the year after, they should be good to go again. Hopefully, with 2 pairs on the go, there should be a few more of them out and about.
Speaker 1:Did you did you have any issues with ROI with those? They're such as they're a species that is so susceptible to ROI.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's it's an interesting one. I had pre previous to getting them and throughout the process of having them, spoke to a number of people that had kept them or have kept have got them currently. And there was definitely recurring themes of there can be a difficult blue tongue to keep it. I genuinely treated them just like anything else and didn't have any issues with them whatsoever.
Speaker 3:The only issue that we did come across very early on was offering live foods. They had a tendency to accidentally bite each other. And because their skin seems to be pretty soft compared to like a northern or an eastern blue tongue or a blotchy even. They tend to tended to have negative reactions to that, which resulted in sort of temporary skin scale loss and things like that where they'd have open wounds and stuff so you have to treat that. But outside of that, there was never really any issues with them.
Speaker 1:I think they're probably I mean, I kept them for years, and I think they're probably the most savage blue tongues that are on the face of the planet. For the for the listeners, we're talking about Centralian blue tongues, taluqua multifaciata. They're a species that's kept, I'd say relatively uncommonly in in Australia and and less commonly overseas. But they're they're an incredible looking animal, and, you know, they they are they're sort of problematic, it seems, quite often. There's a lot of people who have trouble with them, particularly with pairing as well.
Speaker 1:Certainly, we had some issues pairing them. The the males and the females, if the females aren't receptive to you, they can respond pretty savagely towards the males. And 2 males, if they don't get along, they can be fairly savage towards each other as well. Did you have any issues with with, pairing or anything like that with them?
Speaker 3:No. I think I was just honest in all honesty, I was incredibly lucky with the the pair that I had, in the sense that, yeah, they just seem to be okay in together. And I the way that I initially sort of the way that I, bred them last year was by keeping them together for the better part of probably 9 months just about. Basically, from before they start cooling to, once they finished breeding and the female looked a bit beaten up, that was when I sort of went, okay. I'll I'll split them up now.
Speaker 3:And then it was just a a waiting game from there. I think it was it was either them or the westerns that were born on Christmas Eve, and that was like the perfect present. I was like, yep, fantastic. I'm so stoked with that. And, that year, I had a lot of family coming around because, big Italian family, we do a big Christmas Eve.
Speaker 3:And so I had all the the young cousins coming out. I was like, look at this thing. And they were like, yeah, it's cool. It's a it's a little lizard. Okay.
Speaker 3:And I'm like, yeah, but you don't
Speaker 1:patals from?
Speaker 3:They were, South Australian locality animals. I believe they all came from, is it Rick Woodcar, I wanna say? Or, yeah. From, the bearded dragons
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Over in South Australia?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I sort of tracked them down from a few different places. So one of my mates brought in the first one from directly, from South Oz, and he decided after a little while that he wasn't overly keen on keeping them long term. So I went, alright.
Speaker 3:Well, if you if you don't want it, I'll have it and see what I can do. And then I had a very good mate of mine, Danny Dreyes, who was moving from, at the time he was living in Yulara in Central Australia, near, Uluru. And he was moving the family up to tropical cans, I believe, and had to cut down his animals. So I, like a kid in the candy store, basically, just sent him a list of ideas of what I would like to buy off him and sort of walked into the freight place and went, here's my esky full of animals. This is the best day of my life.
Speaker 3:Came home and opened it up. There was, between myself and one of my mates, we had gotten, 4 Centralian Blueys and I bought, 3 Westerns and some Centralian Carpet Pythons as well. So it was like all of this orange and cool stuff. I was like, oh, this is the best.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So the the Ossipatales are all from South Oss or you got some Yullara ones and Uluru's in there as well?
Speaker 3:No. They were just just the South Wales animals. Yeah. I had the opportunity to get some, Yolara stock a couple years ago, but I decided that I should probably pay for my uni fees instead, unfortunately.
Speaker 2:Adulting sucks, doesn't it?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It was very much a it took me a lot of consideration. No. It's probably a a better idea.
Speaker 1:I suppose those Uluru ones are bloody stunning too. They're they're probably among the nicest ones along with the Victorian, also, Pizzareles as well. The ones that you get in the big desert are are some of the prettiest going around, I think.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Oh, those are those are incredible. I'd love to go and see them. I haven't been up to the Little Desert yet, but it's definitely on the list.
Speaker 1:I'm sure they, I know Deakin used to do some field tech field technique stuff in, in a in a little desert. So maybe, as part of uni stuff, you might be able to go out there and do some technique work out there. So
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's it. Fingers fingers crossed. We do have a a little desert trip, planned. I think it's next the second half of the year we go out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I spent some time helping with a a research project out there. Not some are just ending at the moment, the one before that. Mhmm. And, yeah, it was an awesome awesome part of the the country and very different habitat to what I'm used to down here in sort of the southwest.
Speaker 3:It was very cool to see and such an an awesome array of animals out there as well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Fair enough. So, you know, I suppose that leads on to the next question. What what was your favorite Herp trip that you've been on so far?
Speaker 3:I think there's there's 2 that come to mind. One was, one that I had organized and the other one was one that I was just a part of. The one that I organized was, one out to a spot in in northwest Victoria looking for, Murray Darling Cuppy pythons. And I had gone to this spot for for probably, I think, 6 times before we eventually found the the target species. Granted I Is
Speaker 1:that a, a balloonja skink or was that the target species or a sharp skink?
Speaker 3:No. No. The it was, the the Murray Darling carpets were the the main one. Yeah. Luckily.
Speaker 3:But, no. The yeah. That I tell you that those going out there, for for people that don't know, that's about a 6 hour round trip to do that. And I here had done it more times than I could count just about. And, certainly, patience does pay off.
Speaker 3:It also helps when you go with people that know what they're doing, and don't just try and take a guess at what's gonna work. But, yeah, that was certainly that was probably the the main one for me is one that I was sort of involved in organizing. But the the favorite favorite trip was out to Central Australia. Again, same summer as the little desert trip. So not the one just go on the one before that.
Speaker 3:I was lucky enough to be picked as one of a group of about 30 odd, through Uni to do a Central Australia study tour. And that was just an unreal experience, being in that part of the world with a group of people that are all so passionate about nature and wildlife and that sort of thing. And, know, you'd walk along and someone go, oh, there's that cool plant, there's that cool bird, and then I go, there's that cool reptile. Or I'd be there was the last morning we were there, we went to, got up really early to see sunrise over Uluru. And I was still half asleep, the last one off the bus.
Speaker 3:And, one of my friends that I was walking with checked checked out a little group chat, and there was a text going, there's a a snake up here. We don't know what it is. I went, alright. I guess I'm running this morning. So up I went to go and have a look at what what it was.
Speaker 3:And one of my mates goes, look, we're not overly confident what this is and whether it's a a brown snake or a Woma Python, we just waited until you were here to figure out what it is. And I took one look and went, oh, shit. That's a Woma. That's that's something people don't find every day. So I took some photos of it, which is awesome, and very quickly sent them to the guys at the VHS.
Speaker 3:They they had been up a couple of weeks prior and, very quickly got responses back of people going, you're a dick. We didn't find that. You did. So, yeah, that one panned out pretty well for me in the end.
Speaker 2:What's your best find so far on a herp trip?
Speaker 3:It it has to be the Murray. Just at the yeah. The perseverance with that one and finally, yeah, finally going and finding 1 and having a group of mates that were there that were also looking for the same thing. Yeah. It all all panned out pretty well and was, yeah, certainly a day that I won't forget anytime soon.
Speaker 1:So did you find it or did one of your most find it?
Speaker 3:For for both the Woma and the Murray, I cannot take credit for actually finding them. I was just lucky enough to be there when they did.
Speaker 1:Fair enough. Fair enough. Well, if you're there, you know, it's all part of it, isn't it? So, so was the Murray Darling entering the day or was it a not?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Actually, it was a daytime one, which, was a bit of a surprise. That that spot in particular, people send tend to find them either in the sort of early morning sort of time before it gets too hot and then either into the night. So we've done both previously, to to very limited success. But, yeah, this time around, just for whatever reason, it was just the perfect day for it.
Speaker 3:And sure enough, one of my mates was walking along with, oh, shit. That's a Murray. And I I looked at him and went, no. You're kidding, aren't you? We we've done this so many times.
Speaker 3:There's no way. And he went, no. That's you you wanna get up here now? Alright. Up I came, and sure enough, there it was.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I've gone during the day in, rock crevices that Mount Megg and places like that. So, you know, you they do turn up occasionally, during the day, but then we've also got them crossing roads at night and stuff like that. So one of the prettiest ones I've ever seen on the way back from Naramoyne not too long ago, and it had been smooshed by a bloody car, which was pretty disappointing. But the interesting thing with that was the amount of orange for it was like those ones that you get in the northern half of their range.
Speaker 1:They're in Western Queensland, but this one was in Western New South Wales. So they're pretty incredible animals to see and scrubbed. That's for sure.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And they they're one of those ones that they just seem to keep you guessing every time you think you've got them worked out, as far as what you expect to look at when you find 1, and where you find them and, you know, where people put up photos of where they found them. It just they just keep they do really do just keep you guessing every time.
Speaker 2:Yes. This is a May question, and Scott's gonna eye roll, but what's the what's the silliest injury you've done on a hurt trip?
Speaker 3:Oh, I have been very lucky in the sense that I haven't managed to break any bones or anything like that. I haven't had any hospital trips.
Speaker 2:You're still young with time.
Speaker 3:That's it. Yeah. Well, there was there was one day where I, probably to my own detriment, was wearing steel cab work boots and was on the descent from 1 of from this, Murray spot, which is quite hilly. And I'm not an expert climber by any means, nor am I overly comfortable going up or down hills. If I can avoid it, I will.
Speaker 3:But I started
Speaker 2:I hear you there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I started my descent and must have clipped the back of my foot and sort of went to tumble a few steps. And, luckily, managed to to regain my footing relatively quickly. Otherwise, I would have been probably still rolling down the hill now. But,
Speaker 1:You still descended?
Speaker 3:That yeah. Well, that's it. Yeah. I still got there in in in one piece luckily, but very quickly, one of my mates in a random are you okay or are we gonna have to watch you every time you go down now?
Speaker 1:You should have said, no. I need to be carried. So we don't have to carry it in.
Speaker 2:I was just I'll just remember the
Speaker 3:for next
Speaker 2:time. We were going down a hill in Bali, and it was steep. And I just looked at Scott, and I'm like, like, fuck. I'm gonna make that down there in one piece. He's like, you'll be fine.
Speaker 2:And I'm like and he goes, look. If you fall, aim for my legs. I fell. Aim for his legs. Took him out, and he's like, why don't you aim for my legs?
Speaker 2:Like, you told me to. I was pretty scared to fall into the bottom, to be honest. It was, really, unattractive stuff at the bottom.
Speaker 3:Well, you're just practicing a slight tackle. You know? You're just a soccer player in another lifetime. Right?
Speaker 2:Let's go with that. Yes.
Speaker 1:It was the, it was the the sewage and the toilet paper and all the rest of it in the bottom of the creek was the part
Speaker 2:That didn't worry me
Speaker 3:as much
Speaker 2:as the tiles. So, like, all the broken tiles and that, like, on the way down.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No. It doesn't sound like the best concoction to be falling into. That's for sure.
Speaker 1:Well, it wasn't too bad. I mean, we found 33, Vipers within about 15 minutes. So, you know, it was certainly worthwhile,
Speaker 3:you know. Yeah. No. Fair enough.
Speaker 1:You know? I I remember the Vipers. I don't really remember the falling. So, you know, that's
Speaker 2:I remember the falling. It hurt. I remember both, actually.
Speaker 1:So, yeah. But that's alright. What's been the proudest moment that you've had so far? You know, is it is it something to do with the field, or you reckon it's, popping out those or the multifacieta, or or what? What's what's your big deal?
Speaker 1:What do you what are you so proud of?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a it's a very good question. There's there's probably a a few different things that come to mind, and they sort of I'll I'll do them in 3 parts because they represent different parts of what I am doing at the moment. The the first one is sort of the the the private keeping side of things. Definitely between the the Centralian Blue Tongues, the Western Blue Tongues, and, Murray Darling Carpet last year.
Speaker 3:Those were absolute will will always be highlights for me, for for private keeping side of things. All three were species that I dreamed about keeping, and eventually breeding. And to manage to get 2 out of the 3 in the same year, was an awesome experience.
Speaker 1:Did you collect the data?
Speaker 3:I probably should have looking back at it. Oh. But I I did not. There was a
Speaker 1:I've told you about this before. Yeah.
Speaker 3:I was gonna say there was a few people that had told me to do that, but yeah. No. That was probably a a slight oversight of too much excitement on my part.
Speaker 1:It it's easy to do, mate. It really is. You know, it's it's all well and good looking back on, I should've kept the bloody data on that. And then next thing you know, it's it's a week and a half down the road. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 1:I shouldn't do those weights now.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's it. But, otherwise, I think for me, as part of what I do for, as a job at the moment, we've been able to create, although it's still in its infancy, a student zookeeper style program, where the kids get to come in and whether it's design a tank or just simply play with an animal for a lunchtime, every couple of weeks. Seeing how the the kids have developed their skill set and knowledge from basically what was an idea that I had as a a year 8 who was lucky enough to visit a little bit of high school in its peak and see what the potential was of that, and then being able to help bring a version of that into, the school now and seeing it really starting to flourish has been something that I'm I'm very, very happy about. I I don't take credit for starting, you know, really going with it.
Speaker 3:It was a combination of people that were a part of the process. But, yeah, that was something that's stands out to me as a professionally, something that I'm very proud of because it certainly took, quite a lot of effort and time to get it to where it is today, and I'm sure it will continue to evolve into the future or at least I certainly hope it does, from this point on. And then, also, I think, more towards where I'm aiming to, I think, with both my career aspirations and things like that. All of the different field, field work projects that I've helped with and field trips that I've been on, herping trips. Although you may not always find what you're looking for, they're always a bit of fun, and that's definitely something that I'm very fortunate to be a part of in many different ways and means.
Speaker 3:Certainly, being able to contribute to 2 different research projects. One of which I have been lucky enough to see a talk from, the the person that was doing the research and see what that data that we collected has sort of contributed to and will continue to definitely gives you a very warm fuzzy feeling. Being able to sit in a lecture theater and with a bunch of people that you've never met before and don't know for a bar of soap, and seeing your name feature on one of those slides as being being a part of the the data collection process was a very, very cool feeling.
Speaker 2:And how old are you, Josh? You wanna share that with everyone?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I am, all of 20 years old at the moment.
Speaker 2:That is awesome. And when I ask that, I also wanna touch back. Your parents the support your parents give you is awesome.
Speaker 3:Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:You are so lucky there. You really are. Like, your dad's adorable. He's just, you know yeah. Come talk to me.
Speaker 2:You know? Like, he shares your passion, but, obviously, lets everyone know it's you and not him. Like, listen and your mom. Your mom's lovely too. You're so lucky to have that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Definitely. Definitely. The the initial stages took, certainly took a bit of convincing to get to get mom behind the the idea, particularly, when I decide that snakes was what I wanted to have at home, a bit a bit, more than the lizard side of things. That certainly took a bit of convincing.
Speaker 3:But yeah. Basically, from from that day on, I really cannot, fault their enthusiasm and support for what it is that I do. They make everything possible for me, particularly when it comes to when I go on field trips and herping trips and things like that. They make sure everything's okay here, and it part of the reason why I looked at cutting down the collection was to make it easier for them when I do go away on different trips and things like that. But I'm so so very lucky to have the the absolutely incredible support network that I do at home.
Speaker 3:It makes my life so much easier. And finally enough, there's a little bit of a story, a side tangent here. But when I just started learning how to talk, I looked at mom and dad and said, you know, I picked you guys. I still don't know what that really means today. But in the context of what I'm doing now, it makes a lot of sense because when I look at the family around me outside of mom and dad, so my aunties and uncles and things like that, on either side of the family, if I had the passion that I do and it wasn't my mom and dad that were the the people that had me and brought me into the world, I certainly wouldn't be where I am now.
Speaker 3:Because when I talk about the snakes and lizards with anybody else, it's a very different reaction that I get.
Speaker 2:Oh, you're very horrible.
Speaker 1:I'll I'll say this, your parents had it easy. My parents had to deal with venomous snakes.
Speaker 3:That was, established very, very early on. One of my my mom's rules basically from day dot was nothing that can put you in hospital, and nothing venomous. So that basically took out, any large monitors, crocs, and, yeah, your venomous snakes, which was the main ones. And I I was more than happy
Speaker 1:to tell you why I
Speaker 3:did that.
Speaker 1:My parents had that rule, so but it didn't work.
Speaker 2:Obviously, there was a respectful child, and there was an unrespectful child.
Speaker 3:Oh, I don't know. I like to
Speaker 1:say it's determined. That's all.
Speaker 3:That's it. Yeah. I, I certainly don't take any any real risks, or anything like that. If if they make the rules, I'm happy to follow them 9 times out of 10. Although the tattoo is a different story that, yeah, that that caused a few eyebrows.
Speaker 3:But outside of that, I follow the rules.
Speaker 1:Oh, you you can't you can't not let that one out out of the bag and not go into that a little bit further. So in other words, you were told that you weren't allowed to tatter. Is that is that the case? And pretty much Yeah. So what what what do you got?
Speaker 3:So I've got, 2 yellowtail black cockatoos, and, the date of my one of my aunties passing away on my arm, which was just a recent addition to, my aunt arm as of a couple weeks ago. Mhmm. And I knew full well whether I told mom and dad or not their reactions were going to be the same. So I decided that I was going to bite the bullet and ask for forgiveness instead of permission, which whether that was a good choice or not, I don't really know. It certainly wasn't at the time when I told them after the fact.
Speaker 3:It it didn't help that it would I came home at 11 o'clock on a Saturday night and both were pretty much asleep on the couch, And I walked in and went, hey, guys. Do you wanna have a look at this? And, luckily I feel like
Speaker 1:Sunday bloody Sunday when you, when you're doing that.
Speaker 3:I, probably should probably should have. Luckily for me, dad was was, not not a problem at all, which is sort of what I expected. I knew he was gonna be the one that, was not really gonna mind too much about it. But mom certainly looked at it and went, what the fuck have you done? And I went, do do you want me to just grab the swag and put it in the car, and I'll I'll go and sleep somewhere else tonight.
Speaker 3:Just but, fortunately, as as time has gone on, she's certainly come around to the idea. Although I did didn't come away completely scot free over Easter. This was the the first big family gathering on Sunday with the the Italian side. And most of my cousins do already have tattoos, so I figured I was gonna be okay. I should be fine.
Speaker 3:I walked over to the fridge to grab out a beer and my, auntie who's also my godmother just went, Joshua Fostooka went, oh, no. This is not good. And then walked over and she went, that this is the the best line of the day. She looks at it and goes, now of all of your cousins that have tattoos, I did not expect you to be one of the ones that would get them. I went, well, this is it's there now.
Speaker 1:So I suppose, you know, it's interesting other than disappointing your your auntie and your mom, what's another thing that you failed at and and how did you overcome it?
Speaker 3:Oh, that's a a very, very good question. I suppose
Speaker 1:Were there any critics that you had a crack at that you you said that weren't for you? Or is that your
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. There's there's certainly been a a few of them. Probably the the there's 2 that really stick out to me, or actually probably 3.
Speaker 3:Jungle carpet pythons, I I tried very briefly and, realized that things that need that sort of humidity and or I don't know. They just didn't really seem to work out the way that I have kept other animals. I also found shinglebacks were a bit of a challenge, climatically where I am. I, funnily enough, have a mate who lives 10 minutes down the road who keeps them outdoors without any issues. I tried doing outdoors and indoors with mine, and they just never really seemed to thrive with me.
Speaker 3:So I I put them in different hands that, were Did
Speaker 1:you have Vic Ones or SI's or
Speaker 3:they were they were Victorian stuff. Yeah. And funnily enough, grown outside as well. So I assumed that they would have been fine, outdoors, but must have been something about the way that I was setting them up and the way that I was keeping them that wasn't conducive to what they required.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:And then I tried keeping them inside for a bit and just didn't seem to work either side decided that they were probably best not to be with me and with someone who could give them the appropriate time and care that they required. I dabbled in eastern blue tongues as well which people often think is a great starter. Personally, start with. But if if it was me suggesting a starter, I always go to the blotchies or the northerns because those are the ones that I found to be the most bulletproof. But yeah, Easton's was certainly one that I had some difficulties with in the early days.
Speaker 2:What would be your ideal species if you could keep anything?
Speaker 3:There's there's one big one that comes to mind, and that's, the Owen Pali pythons. Although I will probably never be able to keep them in Victoria just because of how everything systems move down here. It takes them about 20 years to do something, and they'll just change names instead. But, that's probably the big one that I would love to to keep and have a crack at. And I've said many times and my my parents know full well that the day that we are allowed to keep them, pretty much everything else will go and the shed will just become a tank for 2 of them.
Speaker 3:And that'll be that. For context, the the shed or the reptile room is a 6 by 4 meter room that I was lucky enough to take over because I was taking up too much room in the garage, and that happened because the lizards didn't smell too good inside the house, so they got moved out there. And then mom and dad decided they wanted to put a car back in the garage, so they moved out of there. And then we set up the the reptile room as it is now, fully insulated and with more power points than you can poke a stick at. It was very funny having a Sparky come around and look at the shit the setup that I had in the garage, and he just sort of had a heart attack.
Speaker 3:He went, I don't know how you haven't had a house fire yet. I went, alright. So we're gonna go above and beyond on the power points this time around to make sure that that doesn't happen. Because, you know, as as many of us do when starting up a reptile room, you've got to gerry rig things between 7 different power points and extension leads everywhere and all that sort of thing. But, yeah, that's going back to the the actual question.
Speaker 3:That's the the one that I would love to keep one day, definitely.
Speaker 1:I think, I suppose we'll eventually end up coming onto this the keeping schedules in both New South Wales and and Victoria. I mean, the solids, like, calves bred them and, you know, some of those bred them as well this year. And, you know, I'm sure that there'll be a few more bred next year as well. And, you know, they're they're one of the requirements to bring animals under the schedules in Victoria and New South Wales is demonstrating, successful breeding, in other states. And, you know, realistically, that can be done with fairly fairly, fairly simply these days.
Speaker 1:So I wouldn't be so surprised if if OPs come onto the keeping schedules in Vic in the next, at the next sort of time that they do a submission review. So Rich, I think the last one was was about 5 years ago, wasn't it?
Speaker 3:They were meant to do a review last year, but they decided that as a result of, COVID and stuff that they were just gonna extend it for another year. So I haven't checked up on what's happening now, but they were waiting on the review of the wildlife act, which hadn't been fully updated since the seventies. 1975 was when that first came into effect, and they've done little things from there. But they were waiting on that being completely refreshed, as a result of an independent body looking at it and deciding what they were gonna do with, the submissions and things like that. And then they were gonna look at the, wildlife regulations, which is the one that talks about the the scheduling and, licensing and all that sort of thing.
Speaker 3:So it's sort of an an exhausted process in the sense that, the review of the wildlife act was in theory meant to be done 18 months to 2 years ago, and it's still in the works at the moment. So, I'm sure it will happen eventually, hopefully in the next 5 to 10 years, but I wouldn't be putting a timeline on it just yet, I don't think.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think, you know, just just quickly, just to touch on that for the for the people listening. In Australia, we've got some fairly significant, legislation regarding, the the keeping of of reptiles and amphibians as pets. And so it's not like you can just go out and buy something and and keep it as a pet. You've gotta go ahead and get a license.
Speaker 1:Essentially, the animals are attract through various licensing systems and schedules, and, you know, you've got to apply to keep to have a certain license that allows you to keep various species and do various things with with animals. So
Speaker 2:And it differs state by state?
Speaker 1:It differs state by state, and it sort of you know, it started off as an idea to to aid in con conservation. And, you know, with the exception of maybe limiting a few animals being poached out of the wild, it's it's conservation its conservation value is is probably debatable, and it certainly has been debated previously in the past. But, I mean, it's good that people can't just go out and get animals on a whim, I suppose, either it does actually sort of stop the the the impulse buying of animals, I suppose. So so there is some benefits to it, but, you know, it is quite different to what it is over in in Europe or the United States and, and Asia and some places like that.
Speaker 3:So What's the
Speaker 2:best bit of ad oh, sorry, Josh. No. You're alright. What's the best bit of advice you've been given?
Speaker 3:Oh, I think one of the one of the big ones, when I was sort of starting out, and it's probably something that has been fostered from both, my family and from, the people in the VHS was really just to to listen to people. Regardless of how old I am and, the other person that I'm talking to just soak in everything, and talk to whoever you can and just learn whatever you can. I I know a lot of people have a tendency to just jump in and go full noise on everything and go nuts, And it's I think it's really beneficial to just sit back and, yeah, talk to people, really get an understanding of who it is that you're talking to, what their background is, and, take notes of what what you're talking about as well. And that way, you really get a good idea of maybe not necessarily the best way to do things, but oftentimes the similarities between different people that you're talking to about a similar topic, you'll find that that's the middle grounds to aim for, particularly when it comes to captive husbandry and things like that.
Speaker 1:Is that like taking notes on when you're breeding ossopetalis and multifacetyl?
Speaker 3:I was certainly a lot better at taking notes of what other people had found and not taking notes on what I found. In in saying that
Speaker 2:Josh's last Josh's last visit. If
Speaker 3:if it how if it, means anything, the person that I that the hospitalist now live with, was able to breed them this year on the back of asking me some questions about what I did. So surely there's some help there.
Speaker 1:A 100%, my 100%. It's,
Speaker 3:you know It just may not have been numerical exacts, but it was close enough.
Speaker 1:100%. What's, what's a common myth about our industry that we're in?
Speaker 3:I think, whether my my mother will appreciate this or not, She went to the the first VHS meeting I went to, which was, the a pre expo dinner. It was, Joe Ball and, doctor Brian Greg Fry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:They were, yeah, doing a talk, that night. And mom walked in, sat down and, you know, we we had a a lot of fun that night and then went home. And she goes, gee, you look around and it's it's a lot of blokes with tattoos, long hair, and beards. And I went, yeah, but that's not everyone. Well, Paul Paul
Speaker 1:was a badger.
Speaker 3:At the time at the time looking around in looking around the room, I can see where she got that opinion from. But I think that's something that certainly I've seen in my, time in the the reptile scene is that it's shifted a lot. At least down here in Victoria, it has. It's so much more family oriented even within the last 6 years. You know, you go to the the expo that we have every year and the amount of families that are coming through, and young people and people from different backgrounds that's not just the the big burly bloke with tats and a beard.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's really good to see, and I think that's something that is, yeah, often miss misunderstood about the the world that we are a part of.
Speaker 1:Feeling a little bit targeted now, Tush.
Speaker 3:Well, in all fairness, I think I think I fit that description now too, you know, honestly.
Speaker 2:I must say, and no disrespect to any other expo I've attended, but the VHS was the most welcoming for me being a female.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's certainly, being fortunate enough to to talk to a lot of the guys that are involved there. One of the main things that he's always aimed for is making it that family friendly atmosphere and really encouraging that and fostering the the next generation. Because in the end of the day, we're in a spot where it's almost coming into a handover period, because as unfortunate as it is, a lot of the people from that initial generation here in Australia are unfortunately passing on. And it's that next generation and the one after it, you need to be promoting to take on the ball because otherwise, it'll just go missing.
Speaker 3:So yeah. It's certainly one of the one of the really good things about the VHS and the way that the the expo, is run and the people that are involved, it's always very, very family focused, which is, yeah, really good to see. Definitely.
Speaker 1:Who would, who do you admire most in your professional cir in the professional circle and, you know, also the the private circle, I suppose, or it might be the same or and and have you got a mentor that you could single out, in both of those fields or or what what would you think would be the, who would be your mentor and and who do you admire in professional circles?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's a it's a very good question. I don't think I can quite put my finger on 1 or 2 people. I think it's been one of those things that I always try and yeah. As I said before, talk to as many people as I can and oftentimes that's people that have the experience, and things like that.
Speaker 3:So I definitely do look up to so many people, both captive world and, in the the the industry and things like that. Yeah. There's I don't think there's one person that I can attribute it to. There's definitely been a few that have had some pretty significant influences, particularly, an unsung hero of the VHS or at least he might go unsung a lot of the time. Mister mister Grant, for those that know him will know who I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:He likes to keep a very low profile until it's auction time, But he has absolutely, been someone that has certainly shaped the way that I, conduct myself and will definitely every now and then if I say or do something that's maybe not the best idea, he'll certainly let me know about it which is a good thing because it certainly made me a a better person in how I contribute to, this hobby, definitely.
Speaker 2:What are you looking forward to in the future, Josh?
Speaker 3:That's that's a very, very good question. I think it'll be a pretty significant shift for me in the next couple of years. I am hoping to go into, further research to start with once I finish my degree currently. So I think that will look at, doing an honors year from there and then seeing how I go, whether I look at doing more study from there or go into the workforce. But, one of my long term goals is to work in some of the sort of more remote areas in Australia.
Speaker 3:So, Central Australia, the Kimberley, things like that, and sort of the Northern Territory as a whole. So it'll probably involve me picking up what I have now and shifting halfway across the country or leaving it here and hoping that I can foster mom and dad into expert power keepers between now and then.
Speaker 1:We'll we'll see Lotches aren't gonna go too well on the Northern Territory, mate.
Speaker 3:That's it. That's it. Yeah. But I think, yeah, that'll probably be the the the big shift, which will certainly uproot a lot of things, and a lot of the way that I had sort of live now, it will be very different. But, it'll be a very good challenge, and I'm certainly looking forward to, that time.
Speaker 2:You certainly got lots of good things ahead. You're quite young.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I certainly try and one of the things that I took away from, the the sort of the start of the degree was a lot of talk around trying to get to know as many people as you can, whether that be, through a few degrees of separation or something along those lines. And I've certainly take tried to take that advice as as literally as I can. And, yeah, hopefully, that opens a few doors as time goes on. I'm sure it will.
Speaker 1:Network, you bloody asshole, mate. That's what it's all about.
Speaker 3:That's it. That's it. That's what they, that's what they all say. And certainly, I'm doing a a unit that's about, sort of setting you up professionally for going for jobs and things like that. And that's one of the biggest things that they preach is all about, yeah, getting to know people and getting yourself out there.
Speaker 3:So I like to think I do a relatively good job of that, and certainly will continue to as time goes on.
Speaker 1:So would you say that's one of the biggest challenges in your profession or have you got something else that you think is a a larger challenge?
Speaker 3:I think, I I'm pretty lucky in the sense that I have always had enough self confidence to be able to do that and be able to talk to people, particularly in those settings, like whether it's a conference or a VHS meeting or whatever it may be, or just a a cold message like I have done both of you, when I was starting. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Oh, way back in the day?
Speaker 3:That's yeah. Wow. Yeah. That's it.
Speaker 2:Would that squeaky, Josh?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. That's the one. But, I have noticed in talking to a lot of my, a lot of my friends, this whole this idea of, imposter syndrome is so big in particularly in, I think, the academic scene, but also just in in general. And it's really a shame because some of the people that I talked to are so incredibly knowledgeable about their area of interest, but they won't go and take that step to talk to that person because they don't feel like they have whether it's a right to or the knowledge to or whatever it may be, it's yeah.
Speaker 3:It's really a shame that that has been something that's evolved throughout time. And I really hope that as we as a society continue to go on whatever trajectory we are, that people gain the confidence as much as they can to be able to have those conversations with people. And look at it as me talking to or someone talking to someone rather than this person with their big title talking to little Timmy down the road. Because, I was lucky enough that at my first VHS meeting, Grant introduced because I I was too scared to talk to someone as a 14 year old or 13 year old, whatever it may have been at that point in time. And I yeah.
Speaker 3:I really hope that that's something that we can sort of foster in people to have that confidence to go, this person over here, yes, they have this title and this prestige or this background, whatever it may be. But in the end of the day, they are still a person and they started somewhere. So I am okay to go and talk to that person and have that conversation. Granted, if they come across like a dick, then by all means, fair enough. Feel free to, you know, not talk to them, but if I feel like a lot of people have the acceptance of we all start somewhere and Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah, have the conversation.
Speaker 1:I think that's something to remember is that, you know, it doesn't matter, you know, you it doesn't matter who it is. Everyone starts off somewhere. Someone's always new at some point in time. Right? How Cogut even wake up overnight and become the expert that he is today.
Speaker 1:And, you know, it that's the reality. Right? So feel free to to always reach out to people and and and have those conversations. And, you know, sometimes, you know, it might it might be a poor time for that person to to chat. Right?
Speaker 1:But at the same time, you know, generally speaking, most people are very receptive to to having those conversations at some point in time. You know?
Speaker 3:And one thing that I have certainly realized, particularly recently in going to, sort of more academic focused conferences and things like that, People love to talk about what they're doing. Absolutely. If you ask them questions about what it is that they are looking at or what they're doing and who they are, they will talk to your ear off for 20 minutes, half an hour, and no worries at all, because they're just happy that someone's interested in what it is that they're doing and that it's having an impact on someone.
Speaker 1:I think too, like, you you're saying before, hey, you're going out with people that have got a an interesting bot interest in botany or an interest in ornithology or mycology or or whatever it might be. And, you know, you see how excited they get, and it becomes infectious. Right? Like, you you sit there, and you can't help but get excited over, that that fungi or that plant or or that bird or that insect because those people around you are getting excited. And then they see you get so excited over a little skink or something like that as well.
Speaker 1:And, you know, they can see that too. Right? So it sort of goes both ways in that
Speaker 3:sense. Definitely. And I think you you tend to sort of learn more and it sinks in more when it's from someone who is that way inclined, but is also at a similar playing field to you like that Central Australia trip. Had I have done that on my own, I would not have given 2 looks at that plant or, you know, whatever it may be. But because one of my friends has gone, look at that.
Speaker 3:How cool is that? I now know what that is, and I've taken that in and remember that so that next time I go, if it's someone else, I can go look at that. How cool is that?
Speaker 2:Yep. For sure.
Speaker 1:And also too, like, that can impact on on on other things. Right? So, you know, you you found that, your colleagues found that WIMA in the in the sort of early morning. Right? Were the insects out particular insects out at that time of the day?
Speaker 1:Was there plants? Were there flowers blooming at that time of year? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. Those sorts of things can actually give you tips that relate back to working with, with reptiles as well and and locating reptiles the. It's it is interesting to be able to use, the whole environment as opposed to just, you know, what we think is know, might be moon phases or temperature or or habitat.
Speaker 1:There are other things out there that that influence, animals' behaviors.
Speaker 3:Yeah. When I was sort of in start really starting out, I, was fortunate enough with mom and dad's support again to do some different, zookeeper for a day type experiences. And a few of them are with, someone who I consider to be a good mate of mine, Chris Humphrey. And one of the things that he said to me very early on was, I can tell that you love your reptiles, but just remember there are other things out there, and you do need to have a look at those to really get a full sense of what's going on. And that certainly stuck with me, and sort of, yeah, broaden my horizons was one of the other things that he said.
Speaker 3:Just make sure you're not too sort of in one corner, basically, which is very good advice to someone that was just sort of starting out down a path of looking at wildlife and conservation and things like that.
Speaker 2:You've just led me into my next question perfectly. If money and time weren't an issue, where would you go in the world and why?
Speaker 3:I see, I think, I am not overly adventurous when it comes to the international side of things. There's only a very select few places that, really really interest me at least at the moment, which is probably Komodo and Papua New Guinea, although only one of those is probably really safe to do. Outside of that, I would go back to Central Australia in a heartbeat. There is just something about that red dirt that gets so fast stuck under your skin, that once you've gone once, you just sort of can't stop going back. I don't think
Speaker 2:Wow. Oh, that was not what I was expecting. Have you traveled?
Speaker 3:I haven't done much when it comes to international. The furthest I've gone was New Zealand for one of my mom's friend's weddings when I was 4. But inside of Australia, I have been fortunate enough to go to, every state and territory aside from, I think, the islands, a few of the islands. I've been to Tassie. That's that's the main one.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, when I was younger, my one of my uncles and aunties, my uncle was involved with the RAF. So that meant that they moved around quite a bit, which meant that for the winter break down here, the winter school break, the June, July school holidays, when it's really cold and everybody get seasonal depression down here in Melbourne because the weather sucks, we would go we would go and fly off to somewhere a lot warmer, which for quite a while was, Darwin, and then it was Perth for a bit, and now it's, Brisbane. So that sort of lenders into doing quite a bit of travel, back in, yeah, when I was much younger, which some of my earliest memories are from those Darwin trips of chasing some sort of a monitor lizard around a tree, at the front of our accommodation, and then seeing a a dingo raid a bin, and stuff like that, which incredibly niche memories for a 4 year old, but, they've certainly stuck with me. And, one of the earliest animal photos that we have with me involved, is me holding a a northern blue tongue at Crocosaurus Cove, which at the time would have been curated by Gavin Bedford, and sort of yeah.
Speaker 3:Seeing that collection, and that photo of me sitting there with blue tongue in hand and a coastal taipan in the tank behind me. You could always tell that that was the the way that it was gonna go at some point. It was just how long it was gonna take, which
Speaker 1:which is the question mark. Awesome. Where do you go for inspiration? What's your happy place?
Speaker 3:That's it's a very, very good question. I think it's really, it's just anywhere that's in the field, anywhere that I can sort of disconnect from the the the people world and just experience the the nature world. I always get such a buzz, when I sort of come home from, any sort of a trip, whether it's going down to the Great Ocean Road with a couple of mates and not really looking for animals, but just having fun, or it's going and doing a week of field research in Mount Kosciuszko and taking an ungodly amount of time to get home, because that is a long drive. Whatever it is, it's those, yeah, those natural places and natural spaces that sort of that's where I get a chance to do a lot of my my thinking, and definitely gives me a a rejuvenated sense when I come back home instead of I unable to sort of spring off that. And if there's work that I need to do, whether it's uni stuff like assessments and things like that or just day to day life.
Speaker 3:It gives you a completely different, I suppose a different feeling and a bit more, excitement about what you're doing because you've had that reset time.
Speaker 1:Do you lock on that by yourself or you do you lock on that with mates? What's your preference?
Speaker 3:It's I've I've done a bit of both. I think it's, generally, it's more fun when you've got people around to share it with, but I have no issues with going and doing things on my own as well. It's sort of a a bit of a do a bit of both, I think. I don't have the best track record of going camping on my own, because I I need
Speaker 1:to That's sounds like that's definitely sounds like there's a story or 2 in that. Oh, yeah.
Speaker 3:So, I got my my red pay plates, which for international people is the start of me being able to drive on my own. So I would've I was 18 at the time, and I had a a free weekend. So I went, alright. Where am I gonna go for my first weekend away without mom and dad or anything like that? Let me pick a spot in the middle of nowhere, where the closest town was half an hour away.
Speaker 3:It was a 3 hour drive to get out there. What could possibly go wrong? I got out there, no dramas, or actually didn't know that's a lie. On the way in, I decided to get up but stupidly early. I think it was, like, 4 or 5 o'clock because I wanted to get there before the sunrise.
Speaker 3:Again, I don't know why I 18 year old me decided that was a good idea. But anyway, so I've got got in the car and headed off and, driving, out past Bendigo, which for Victorians, you'll know where that is. It's sort of a a regional hub, I suppose, but the outskirts are still pretty rural. And it's probably on 5:30, 6 o'clock at this point, and it's still pitch black. And, driving along and I've gone, oh, gee, that's a big shape in the middle of the road.
Speaker 3:I wonder if I'm seeing things. Got a little bit closer went, oh, that looks fluffy. Got a little bit closer went, oh, that's a sheep. Uh-oh. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Swerved across the other side of the road. Luckily, there was no other cars coming, and then swerved back and went, okay. This this is a really bad start, but I think I'm okay, so I'm gonna keep going for now. So I kept going. I got there in one piece, and had the day out there, no dramas.
Speaker 3:Got to nighttime, I'll go for a walk, see if I can find anything. I had been out there a couple of times previously, so I knew roughly where I was going.
Speaker 1:So you're at least Whereabouts are you now? You're West Abednego, what, whipstick or something like that, are you? Or
Speaker 3:this is, where are we talking? Up towards Tarek Tarek. So Yep. Going further north, sort of up towards the Murray ish. Yep.
Speaker 3:And yeah. So I was sitting there going, I think I know where I am. I've done this a few times. I should be right. I hadn't done it alone before, which was probably a a detriment to myself in that sense.
Speaker 3:But, so I started my walk and ploddled ploddled along, and during the walk, I'd startled a fox that was relatively close by. And I went, oh, okay. That's something that I've not had to deal with before. That was a little bit of a freaky interaction. And it ran off, no worries, and I thought I was fine.
Speaker 3:And then I sort of went, okay, I've been walking around for a while. It's a bit cold. Nothing's coming out. I might as well go and get ready for bed. So I've gone to start walking back down, the the hill and every time I've turned around there's been the 2 beady eyes of the fox looking back at me.
Speaker 3:And 18 year old me should have known better that a fox isn't gonna do anything because they're, you know, not big enough to really cause me too much grief. But being alone and being my first trip out, that psyched me out a lot, and sort of started getting me stressing. And the place that I was at has these big boulders that you've gotta sort of figure out your way around to get down off the hill to get back to the car. And I kept taking the wrong turn each time that led to a drop off. So I started to get a little bit stressed.
Speaker 3:I eventually made it back to the car and went, okay, let's try and get some sleep. And I just I just couldn't. I was not comfortable at all. So, you know, what's the time now? It was probably only 8 or 9 o'clock.
Speaker 3:I've gone, oh, if I drive home now, I'll make it home just before mom and dad go to bed, so then they won't have to worry. That's probably a good idea. So I started to drive home. And I got a call about an hour later from mom going, how's it going, you know, have you set up for the night? And I thought, if I say that I'm on my my way home, she's just gonna worry, and Mhmm.
Speaker 3:So I went, Yeah. I've just just set up the swag. We're we're all good. You know, I'll I'll talk to you in the morning, whatever. And then just kept driving home.
Speaker 3:I got home and, our our front door only locks from the inside. So I went and knocked on the went to open the door and went, oh, they've locked me out. This is a bad start. So I I called my wife.
Speaker 1:That's what you get for lying to your mom?
Speaker 3:That's it. Yeah. Yeah. I called my mom and said, hey, do you wanna just grab the the door for me? She goes, what are you doing home?
Speaker 3:I went, do I have a story to tell you? So long story short, I 18 year old May got scared by a fox, which was enough for me to decide to go home. One of my mates still has not let me live that down, and his father will bring that up every time I see him. So Oh, you're you're
Speaker 1:a good man, mate. Next time, I'll say it is. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Well, that's it. There there'll be a whole lot more people that'll probably give me shit for that forever in a day now. Oh,
Speaker 2:it'd be I don't wanna tell you this be
Speaker 1:prom if I didn't mind.
Speaker 2:I don't wanna tell you this, Josh, but we were out one night, and I saw a fox cub in the middle of the road. And I'm like, oh my god. How gorgeous is this? Picked it up in one fell swoop. And Scott's like, what the are you doing?
Speaker 2:Put that down. And because he got so angry, I was like, no. You're not my mother. It's the biggest row we'd ever
Speaker 3:But, yes, luckily, me now I know better, but me then certainly didn't.
Speaker 2:If it makes you feel any better if there are roaches, I would have done the same thing.
Speaker 3:Well, you know, we've we've all got our things that we, aren't particularly fond of as they say.
Speaker 2:Yep. Do we or art?
Speaker 1:So, so what's the best advice someone's ever given you?
Speaker 2:We've already done that, babe.
Speaker 1:Have we?
Speaker 3:Yep. Alright.
Speaker 2:Edit that bit out, Eric.
Speaker 1:Eric. 1 hour, 12 minutes or so, roughly. Okay.
Speaker 2:Are there any exciting projects you're currently working on, Josh, or you would like to work on in the very near future?
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah. That's a that's a a very good question. As far as, again, I'll break it down into the 3 the 3 groups. As far as home is concerned, I have got a few tanks that I need to build. I want to do try something and I haven't quite worked out how I wanna try it, with this this Woma Python tank that I'm gonna build.
Speaker 3:I say I, it'll inevitably Dane helps me build it because I have no handyman skills. I just hold things together and say, yep, that looks good, and he does the rest. But I wanna try and plan out some sort of a system that encourages that borrowing behavior that they're so well known for and that people have been putting up videos of, over the last couple of years of their WOMAs digging out burrows and things like that. I'm very much in the early stages of trying to wrap my head around how I want to do that, but that's something that I'm looking forward to as far as the the home side of things goes. As far as work is concerned, there's a few things on the go at the moment that might see the the collection shift a little bit in a good way to have a few more animals, and a few different ones to give the the kids an opportunity to engage with some different species.
Speaker 3:So hopefully, that all pans out. That'll be really good to see. And then I think from a professional standpoint, certainly, the the big one is hopefully looking at doing honors next year and the stressful 12 months that will ensue as a result of that. But it'll be a great experience to do. I I certainly hope so at least.
Speaker 1:Have you got an idea of what you wanna do in in an honest project?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think the, the the main one is looking at, the the predator proof fences, which is something that's very widely used in Australia, or at least it's becoming more widely used in Australia, because we have a really bad track record with, feral species and extinction for those international that may not be as as aware of what happens down here. Basically Looking
Speaker 1:at efficacy of the fences or or something else?
Speaker 3:The the idea would be looking at how reptiles which are usually not a target species, how that the the fences maybe affect the way that they interact with, or cross borders and things along those lines because defenses would certainly be a deterrent for some species. One of the the coolest videos that I've seen was from someone who was interning at the Australian Wildlife Conservancy at their property in New Haven, which is in Central Australia. And it was a video of a relatively large Parente basically patrolling the fence. And what I would assume, again, this is just my assumption that animal would be doing would be basically picking off anything that's gotten stuck. And I think it'd be very interesting to see here how that plays a role, whether it's the the fences as a as an obstruction or, fences as a result of changing the, I suppose, the species composition either side, because with the fences often comes predator proof areas, so no cats and foxes.
Speaker 3:Well, I should say no invasive predators because there's still other things. Sometimes even they are rabbit free, which is another thing that has certainly had a big impact across Australia as well. So I feel like those sort of different conditions could be could produce quite a telling story about, yeah, how reptiles are impacted by those those fenced reserves and whether that's something that we need to look at going forward, potentially as well.
Speaker 2:I'd like to ask you, what was your defining moment when you decided to give the portion of your reptile sales and whatnot to conservation? What was what was the species? What was the train of thought behind it?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think it was a sort of a a combination of things. I have always been sort of told and seen how people support things like the VHS. So for context to people that haven't been to a meeting before, we do, an auction most meetings and a raffle, and you people buy raffle tickets and things like that. It's usually a tank or something along those lines.
Speaker 3:And something that has become a reoccurring theme throughout most meetings is that if it's someone with, you know, a substantial collection or something along those lines that wins the the raffle prize. Any kids that are in the audience at the time are usually the ones that end up with the tank, whether they're related to the person or know the person or not. It's usually how it goes, which is just great to see, which sounds very unrelated, but it goes full circle. So I always saw that generosity in that context, which is why I'm a massive supporter of the VHS as well. But there was a I think it actually might have been an NPR episode, at one point that was talking about how we as keepers can contribute to conservation more on more than just the face value of the the argument that everybody makes that we're keeping things at home and breeding them, and that's us doing our part, which it's all well and good to make that point, but it's not really doing anything long term or lasting.
Speaker 3:Like, it is but it isn't. It's controversial. But anyway,
Speaker 1:It it aids in communication and
Speaker 3:That's it.
Speaker 1:Normalizing, normalizing reptiles in the water community. So there's certainly a there is a benefit in that sense. But
Speaker 2:But I get where Josh is coming from too, though.
Speaker 1:Oh, a 100%. It's it's not necessarily a direct contribution to conservation. Yeah. I think that the big
Speaker 3:argument that tend to people tend to make, particularly those that breed animals at home, is the whole preservation side of things, which I see where you're coming from but that is only that'll only get you so far. Yeah. So, yeah, I sort of I saw that and I think it was also might have been, the reptiles and research. It's one of the UK guys potentially that also had a few different talks around that side of things. And I sort of sat there and thought, okay.
Speaker 3:What can I do? What can I think up? And the the species that I is my number one, is Murray Darling carp pythons, for those that haven't worked that out yet. And during the the thought process, the Australian Wildlife Conservancy put up a photo of, Murray Darling carp python that was featured inside the, fenced reserve at Yukimura, which is in South Australia. And I went, bingo.
Speaker 3:That's that's the idea. Okay. So these guys do some incredible work across the country, with conservation of native species. Particularly, a lot of it is to do with the fence side of things, but also just management on a whole. That was the the starting point.
Speaker 3:And then, as part of the Central Australia trip that I I keep referring to, we were able to visit, the the New Haven property, which is a 250,000 hectare plot of land in the middle of nowhere, basically, bordering the Tanami Desert in Central Northern Territory. And it is just such a vast landmass, and they've got a big fenced area and all that sort of thing. And as part of that, the time that we spent out there, we got to go along with the ecology team and do some surveying of some of their species that were inside the fences and we got to go inside the fence. And just saying effectively what Central Australia was meant to be before, it was permanently more more than likely permanently changed to what it is now. That was the the real penny drop moment.
Speaker 3:Okay. These guys are doing work that I want to support. I am going to use x amount of what I do from reptiles to contribute to that. And that's how I can make my contribution to conservation more than just the the preservation and the communication elements, sort of giving it that next step, I suppose.
Speaker 2:I personally think it's admirable. I'm really proud of you and how far you've come from when I first met you.
Speaker 3:Thank you. I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:It's all big loving,
Speaker 2:isn't it? Shy.
Speaker 1:It's all big loving.
Speaker 2:And I I
Speaker 1:I suppose the other reason why you like the AWC properties is they exclude foxes. So it gives you a safe place to go herping when you get older. Right?
Speaker 3:That's it. Absolutely. Yeah. Absolutely.
Speaker 2:Wow. You just got scrubbed off Josh's Christmas card. What's the off air, Josh.
Speaker 1:What's the, the top what's your top 3 favorite books, that are sort of nonfiction books I suppose?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. I suppose it's probably down to the the three main sort of references that I will go through. Being known as one of the the reptile people courtesy of me not being overly quiet at uni means that I tend to get a lot of messages So I tend to have 3 main sort of references that I go back to on a regular. And if people particularly in Victoria don't have these books and work in the field, I think you need to do yourself a service and get at least these 3.
Speaker 3:So you've got the reptiles of Victoria, which is basically the the the bible. There's a few things that have changed taxonomically, but for the most part, it's pretty accurate and gives you a good overview of what you might be looking at. And then you of course, you've got the 2 big ones, the the COGA and then the the, what is it? Swan and
Speaker 1:Wilson Swan.
Speaker 3:That's the one. Wilson Swan. Those ones you probably don't wanna put in a backpack or or necessarily in your car, but there's certainly ones that you go back to once you get home from a trip and go, oh, what was that little that little brown skink again? And then you flick through and go, oh, that looks about right, and then you sort of, you know, go through the descriptions and see if they line up. Those 3 are certainly the the main ones.
Speaker 3:The the reptiles of Victoria is a great one for anyone who does, whether it's bush crew work or things like that where you're in the field all the time. It fits into a backpack for the most part. It might get a little bit beaten up, but that's kind of the point of a little field guide like that. But, yeah, that that one in particular, if people don't have it, definitely do track it down because it is, a wealth of knowledge and a good great resource to have on hand.
Speaker 2:Definitely. It's a very good book.
Speaker 3:And of course, I I might just add to that quickly. I cannot forget, there's more than a few books that that the 2 peep lovely people that are interviewing me, have put out, that people should get their hands on as well. I've bought
Speaker 2:That's in the mail, Josh.
Speaker 3:I have I have bought more than a few of them for for friends' birthdays and things like that to go here. This is your intro to snakes. There you go. This is your starting point. I will talk to you in 6 months time once you've properly read it and understood it all, and then we will go from there.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Look. I mean, the the new snake book we're working on at the moment is gonna be much better for the field. That's for sure. But it's, you know, the whole idea that those books are an introduction, I suppose, for the most part.
Speaker 1:So, you know no. It's the, both Coventry and Robertson and, Wilson and Swan are are great books for the field, and and and Hal's book's a great book for the desk, I think, is the best way to describe it. Is it been it? Absolutely. I'm lucky enough
Speaker 2:to have And it makes the damn good weapon.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Yeah. For sure. A step. I'm I'm lucky enough to have a copy of the keys, which you're which makes things a lot easier to to to track around with you.
Speaker 1:So
Speaker 3:Yeah. I can't imagine someone putting that, the whole book in a backpack and still managing to go and hoping properly. You'd you'd do a fair that'd be a fair effort, I reckon.
Speaker 2:I don't know. When someone didn't drink water and ended up in a hospital, his adoring wife put it in a backpack, got lost at the hospital, and had to climb up a 100 and 1 step and then take it back home because he didn't want it stolen. So it does go in a backpack. It's just a hell workout.
Speaker 3:You can't make things too easy though, can you?
Speaker 2:No. Definitely not.
Speaker 1:It's all gone quiet.
Speaker 2:Oh, it hasn't it? I'm trying to figure out what to what to say that Josh sort of hasn't asked answered in the other questions. Oh, Eric, can we edit this bit out too,
Speaker 1:please? Yeah. I've written down the fucking tone. So I've written down the tone.
Speaker 2:Josh actually said to me weeks ago when I hit him up to interview him, he's like, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And he's like, no topics off limits. And I've been racking my brain, but because of the age difference, like, I'm old enough to be his mother, I can't think of him instead of my house.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's a fucking hole in my mouth. There's a hole of inappropriate shit I could be asking?
Speaker 2:That's what I mean.
Speaker 1:And I was like, oh,
Speaker 2:well so wrong.
Speaker 1:There's a cock in the hole. I reckon we might go we'll get stuck back in. Is there anything else you wanna talk about particularly, Josh?
Speaker 3:No. No. I'm Alright. I'm happy with, yeah, whatever.
Speaker 1:Alright. All we might do is we there's a couple couple of questions we'll go with. So, did you wanna do the professionally or 5 to 10 years question, Bob? And then, we'll go to the last question, and then we'll sort of just do a bit of an outro So we can take it from there. What do you think?
Speaker 1:You good with that, Bob?
Speaker 2:Yeah. If Josh is okay with that?
Speaker 3:Yeah. No. Sounds good.
Speaker 1:Oh.
Speaker 2:So where do you see yourself professionally in the next 5 to 10 years, Josh?
Speaker 3:Yeah. I I hope that by by that time, the the honors project has happened, and I'm working somewhere that's probably not Victoria by that time. Either that
Speaker 2:Definitely want that Owen Pearly, don't you?
Speaker 3:Well, yeah. That you know, it's it's all all a few different, arguments involved there. I think being able to to go herping for a few other things will be pretty good too. But, yeah, that's certainly one one of the ideas. The other one will be going fully into the research side of things, which, yeah, that will that will come one way or the other.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, that's probably the main thing and hopefully working in, yeah, somewhere that's quite out there but also actively involved in conservation of our our native wildlife because we all know it needs all the help it can get, and I hope to be able to contribute in some way, shape, or form to that going forward.
Speaker 1:Have you ever experienced or witnessed misogyny in the hobby? And, you know, if not necessarily just the hobby, but it also at university as well. And, you know, what do you think, in your opinion, could be used to to help sort of stamp out that sort of behavior?
Speaker 3:It's certainly a very good question. I think for for me, for the most part, I've had some very good influences, which has meant that, that side of things has not been something that I've been overly privy to. Also, in all reality, being a a a man myself, I probably don't see it as much as I should, in some way shape or form or don't take notice of it as much as I probably should. But I certainly get the feeling that as time goes on, it'll be something that becomes less and less of a problem, whether it's a, dare I say, a generational thing or just a society thing. Certainly, I I hope that as time goes on, that will be a problem that is stamped out.
Speaker 3:As far as the the ways and means of doing that, I think if I think it's one of those things that can can be, quite difficult. It would probably does lend itself to having difficult conversations with people, if and when something like that does occur. But I think if you can, yeah, have those conversations when the situation arises, then that's only making a good step forward or perhaps it's deciding that that person is maybe someone that you don't wanna talk to very much.
Speaker 1:I think it's, you know, you've got that, you know, as we spoke about earlier, how you're starting to see a shift in what a so called typical reptile keeper looks like these days, you know, where it's not the the bearded tattoo, old fellow. It it it really is sort of can be anyone, and, you know, assuming that the people's interests are are x or y based on their appearance is is really something of the past, and and hopefully, that's where it remains.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Absolutely. And I think, certainly from from what I have seen, it's not about who the person is that you're talking to. It's more what you're talking about that's what matters. I think, yeah, in the end of the day, who regardless of who it is that you're talking to, as long as, yeah, what it is that you're talking about is the interest that we're all here for.
Speaker 3:And in the day, we're all talking about reptiles because that's what we're keen on, then by all means, go for it.
Speaker 1:What's the one time? We hadn't done that the whole time. This is our first one. Sorry, babe.
Speaker 2:Alright. That's the one takeaway.
Speaker 1:Fucking hell.
Speaker 2:And that one?
Speaker 1:And that one. Right. 132 40 is when we'll kick off again. So
Speaker 2:And if anyone can hear the heavy breathing, that's Bron, not me. What's the one takeaway that you would like the audience to get from this episode, Josh?
Speaker 3:I think for anyone who is just sort of coming into the this this crazy world that we're a part of, the the reptile world that it is, I hope that one of 2 things is what's taken away from it. And I suppose this resonates for anyone really, but particularly people that are coming into it. Talk to and listen to whoever you can, whoever, whenever, all of that. Send that message even if it's out of the blue. You might it might take a couple days to get a response from someone, but it's worth doing.
Speaker 3:Go and talk to that person that you've seen across the room and you really wanna know what they're, you know, what they're doing or what they've got at home or whatever it may be, have that conversation. And have the as much as you can, have the confidence in yourself to be able to have conversation because as I I said before, we are all people despite, you know, whether we've authored 20 different papers or whether you've kept 1 lizard at home or seen a skink out on your morning walk. Everyone is was at one point the at the same level. And in the end of the day, we are all yeah. We are all people and, yeah, have those conversations.
Speaker 3:That's probably the number 1. And, I think what was it? Where was I going with number 2? Uh-oh.
Speaker 2:Welcome to my world.
Speaker 3:Oh, jeez. It's completely gone.
Speaker 1:That's alright. We can go with the second part of not everyone's afraid of foxes.
Speaker 2:Oh, gosh. You're a real Bali experience, babe.
Speaker 3:But, yeah. No. I think that's that's the the the most important one. I would say as a as a caveat to that as well, particularly the people of my age bracket, talk to those that you might think are the the older group that, you know, you might this might be a very poor assumption, but some people might assume that they are from a bygone era. But you can learn so so much from those people, things that'll completely surprise you and reshape the way that you think.
Speaker 3:Give them the time of day to talk to you about their experience and you will just learn so much from it and gain so much from it. I was fortunate enough to start a project that I have been very slack on recently, which has involved talking to a lot of people from that those generations and the people that have the experience, like yourselves as well.
Speaker 2:You just called us old.
Speaker 3:That that was not my intention. But talking to the people that have, you know, walked truly walked the walk, if you will, and really, yeah, you you just learn so so much, and it gives you such a good foundation to sort of bounce from and to to take what you know already plus what other people have experienced and learn from their both their mistakes but also their positives and, yeah, really gain, what you can from that.
Speaker 1:I think at the same time, I too, right, it's exciting as as being sort of one of the we're saying this, but being one of the older people sort of looking back now, seeing young people like yourself out there and and and some of the others that are just keen to get out there and and, sort of add back to the hobby at at such a young age is really good to see. So, you know, just keep up the great work and, you know, hopefully, we don't completely lose you to academia and that you you're still, willing to clean out poo out of out of, lizard cages and stuff like that and still be part of that part of the hobby as well.
Speaker 3:Yeah. No. That's it. I've certainly it's it's a a whole other topic in itself trying to balance that all those worlds, but it's certainly one that I, hopefully, will intend on, yeah, continuing to to to balance between, the the conservation world, the the academic world, and the keeping world. They often butt heads a lot of the time, particularly in Australia.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, hopefully, I'm one of those lucky people that's able to bridge the gaps in some way, shape, or form across those those platforms.
Speaker 1:Is there anything that we, haven't covered that you'd like to say before we sort of start to close it?
Speaker 3:In? No. I think you you've done a a pretty good job. There's nothing really that that comes to mind. I would say if if anybody has any questions about, what I do and what I have done, feel free to send me a message.
Speaker 3:I try my best to get back to you as soon as I can. I am one of those young people that does have their phone by their side all the time, and I'm probably using it a bit more than I should. So I will see the message and get back to you as soon as I can.
Speaker 1:So is that the best way to find you on social media or what's email, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Telephone,
Speaker 1:you know, carry a pigeon, you know. How can how can our listeners find you if they wanna have that chat?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Certainly, social media is the best way to do it. Via, if you just search up Josh's Aussie Reptiles, it's there's a few different platforms that that think, that name comes up on and it's all me. So either way, I will will, see it at some point in time. If you can manage to find a carrier pigeon, that would be a great story to tell.
Speaker 3:So feel free to give that a whirl, I won't complain. But, yeah, definitely social media is the best way to do it.
Speaker 1:Cool. We'll we'll make sure we get that, that
Speaker 2:A A massive thank you to our guest, Jocelyn Stuka. We really appreciate you taking time out of your busy schedule to talk to us, especially as it took so long because Scott's computer wouldn't work. We will be releasing our podcast monthly, so make sure you hit the subscribe button, and don't forget to check out all the other podcasts in the Morillia Python Radio Network. Www.morillia pythonradio.net is where you can find us. Marillapyson Radio, Carpets and Coffee, Reptile Fight Club, Boas Boas Boas, Colubrid and Colubrid Radio, the Australian Heritage Culture Podcast, and the Monitor Keeping Podcast.
Speaker 2:Give the Cold Blooded Contributions Podcast a like on Facebook so you don't miss any updates, giveaways, or guest announcements. The links discussed in today's podcast will be in the show notes and also on the Facebook page. And always remember to trust your creativity. It's intelligence having fun. Fuck, yeah.
Speaker 2:Nice noise. Thanks, Josh.
Speaker 3:No worries at all.