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This podcast will help you grow your B2B company quarter after quarter—with confidence, clarity, and data-backed decisions.
In each episode, you’ll learn proven strategies, practical frameworks, and first-hand insights from GTM leaders, RevOps pros, and seasoned B2B executives. They’ll walk you through how they use data to set smart targets, forecast accurately, overcome growth plateaus, and build high-performing sales and marketing engines.
You’ll hear stories of real challenges, real results, and the data-driven moves that made all the difference.
The best B2B companies don’t just look at metrics—they use them to take action. Move The Needle will help you do the same.
Ali (00:11)
Welcome to Move the Needle. I'm so excited to sit down today with Amanda Natividad, the VP of Marketing at audience research startup, SparkToro. Amanda is the originator of zero-click content. She coined the phrase and popularized it through her research and collaboration with Rand Fishkin. She also hosts the podcast Meme Team, which she recently launched
with co-host Sonia Baschez. And you may have seen her speak at conferences like Ad World, MozCon, SassStack, and Content Marketing World, which is where I actually got to hear her present in action. Amanda is brilliant. If you haven't read her work, I certainly hope that you go and do right after this. But Amanda, it's a delight to have you here. Welcome.
Amanda Natividad (00:50)
my gosh, thank you. And look, I know no one cares, but I care. And that is the most seamless I have ever heard anyone pronounce my name. So thank you for that.
Ali (00:59)
Actually,
I do. I think it's really important that people do that correctly. So good. I'm glad I got it. All right. So we're going to talk a little bit today about zero-click content, zero-click marketing. We'll just call the whole world zero-click now. So as we talked about, you were the first. You coined the term and now everybody is really using it and getting on board with it. It's become very popular. But let's kind go back to the beginning. What made you first notice this trend and how was it impacting your own work and results?
Amanda Natividad (01:12)
Yeah.
it's funny because I don't remember exactly how I came up with the phrase, but what I was seeing in the digital world was that just that the fastest growing social accounts or kind of any content platform, really the fastest growing ones were posting what I called zero click content. And that's content that was native to platform has standalone value.
and no additional context is needed, but it's optional, right? It enhances one's overall understanding, but it's not required to get value out of that post.
was the strategy I took to grow my own social media accounts. So at the time, I had grown my Twitter account from something like 700 or 1000 followers to over 10,000 in about a year and a half or so. And it was all through posting zero click content. Right. And so by that, mean, I was posting tweets, threads.
that were expounding on some of my marketing expertise, some of my marketing experiences where I was writing everything for Twitter. I wasn't even blogging about it yet. Although I had a couple of blog posts on my personal site, but it was very much just here is here's the entire post native to Twitter. And that was how I was growing my audience. You know, securing speaking slots at, you know, opportunities like demand curves, growth summit at
Ali (02:39)
Okay.
Amanda Natividad (02:58)
ad world and over time it was how I also grew my own email list. So I think at the time I grew my email list, it wasn't massive, but it was from like zero to 8,000 subscribers in about a year. And that was just from like every now and then I would post a link to subscribe to my newsletter. ⁓ And yeah, I attribute that to all to zero click marketing really.
Ali (03:21)
Mm-hmm.
Awesome. So that was a couple years ago. You've stayed the course. ⁓ What have you seen change since you first started identifying the trend? ⁓
Amanda Natividad (03:36)
I'm seeing a lot more people employ zero click strategies. And I'm also just seeing a lot more people talk about it in, this way that, ⁓ I guess it's been surprising, and kind of incredible to see the way that that language has been adopted by people and that it's, it's like, just kind of entered our marketing zeitgeist in a way that like, everybody knows what this is now. and I started seeing it in like job descriptions.
Ali (04:01)
Yeah.
Amanda Natividad (04:06)
⁓ I think several months after I came out with that blog post. So was pretty incredible to see like job descriptions for content marketing managers say stuff like, must be able to create zero click content. But yeah.
Ali (04:07)
This one.
That is
really cool. I don't know that that many people can claim something like that, like creating and owning a term that then just becomes like a marketing staple. I know you don't always get the proper credit for that either. I think you had, shared something recently that like Google was not even always attributing the creation of that phrase to you who came up with
Amanda Natividad (04:22)
Ha ha.
Yeah. Yeah. And
I think Forrester Research ran a webinar recently about it. Well, they didn't reach out to me to to help co-hosts. So I just thought that I mean, it's I mean, part of it's like, you know, it is what it is. Like people will do what they do. ⁓ I think, you know, I mean, it would be nice if Forrester gave me the credit. But but I do think overall for the.
for the greater good, think it's a good thing that people are, that it's good that it resonates with people, that people are able to get value from understanding it and knowing it and knowing how to do it. That's really what matters, that we're all able to do better marketing.
Ali (05:17)
So have you seen any examples where people have like wildly misinterpreted what zero click content is or how to do it well?
Amanda Natividad (05:27)
You know, I think one thing is, maybe you've seen this too. I'm also curious what you think too. But one thing I've seen is that I feel like some people take it at face value and run with it completely. And then they start thinking like, well, what do you mean I should never track success of my marketing. What do you mean I should, I should never try to get traffic or never try to get a click. And what I'm saying, it's not, it's not never, right? It's not.
never drive people to your blog or email list or your podcast. What I'm saying is that you can't reliably count on that to happen, right? Because we know a bunch of things like, just to run through it quickly, about 60 % of Google searches end without a click. So Google is hoarding the traffic more than ever. We know that the social media platforms will kill your reach if you embed links in your post. And we know that because that's why people do
Ali (06:05)
Yes.
Amanda Natividad (06:26)
link in the comments on LinkedIn. And when Elon Musk bought Twitter, now X, and he showed the algorithm, it showed that the algorithm shows that posts with links are marked as definite spam vector. And then just a couple of weeks ago, this was in Social Media Today, ⁓ creators were seeing that in Facebook, that Meta was giving advice of like,
Ali (06:27)
Yeah.
Bye.
Thanks for watching.
Amanda Natividad (06:54)
Hey, just so you know, your post has a link and it might hurt your reach. And in their own transparency report, Meta said that something like 97.3 % of all posts like that get engagement don't have a link, right? So Meta has in so many words confirmed it, right? So we know that these things are true, right? The platforms are hoarding traffic. They don't want to send out traffic. And even if you...
Ali (06:57)
Yeah.
Yeah, it's a secret.
Amanda Natividad (07:22)
do get traffic, even if you do get that click, dark social has taught us that you won't even see it, right? So if you happen to get a click from TikTok, that referral string is going to show up as 100 % hidden, meaning it's going to be marked as direct. So you can't even track your traffic from TikTok, even if you wanted to, right? And then the same goes for like, Mastodon, WhatsApp, Slack, it's all marked as direct, some percentage of
Ali (07:29)
Yeah.
Thanks.
Amanda Natividad (07:51)
Instagram DMs and LinkedIn posts, Facebook Messenger, those are marked as direct too, but that's still coming from those ecosystems. So what I say is like, again, not saying never add a link, it's that you can't count on it. And then even if you did get the click, you won't even see it. So what do you do? What you do is you try to get people to see your content, right? You optimize for impressions, for reach.
Ali (08:13)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (08:22)
you what I'll say too is, you you accrue some algorithmic capital, right? By posting this zero click content. And then every now and then you burn a little bit of that capital by then posting your link, right? Like, by the way, book a demo on my site. By the way, I host this podcast. ⁓ By the way, I have an email list, right? You do those things periodically, but you don't do them in all of your posts.
Ali (08:33)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
So in a zero click world, if we're not measuring clicks, if we're not able to connect all those touch points back perfectly, what are the KPIs now that actually matter the most in your opinion?
Amanda Natividad (09:00)
Yeah, I think one thing is looking at trends over time. Like you can look at things like branded search over time. in some cases, I think we can take a page from our friends in out of home marketing, right? Where they, for instance, when you run a billboard in certain regions,
Ali (09:10)
you
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (09:22)
What they do there is they look at incremental lift in localized revenue. So if there's a way to do that or replicate that, that's one way to do it. You could also look at increased conversions on your site. And a couple other things I think work in the shorter term, meaning like you could probably track success a little bit sooner is one. And this is one of my favorite examples is this company, Europe based company called Dream Data.
Ali (09:27)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (09:52)
They're a B2B marketing company, but they have an employee advocacy program where they have like several, for lack of better term, thought leaders in their company that are posting about B2B marketing, know, sales, revenue, ⁓ you know, the things that Dream Data addresses. They post about this stuff and they all have the same call to action link on their headline, right? And so...
Ali (10:18)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (10:19)
What they've
seen is that since having this employee advocacy program, they've been seeing a big increase in demos booked, right? So that's something that you can look at even like several weeks from today. ⁓ Other things you can look at, and this is something I really like, and it's often how I teach content marketing to other people, it's content sustainability. And by that, I mean, can your content sustain other channels?
Can it sustain itself? Right? Can you repurpose, recycle existing concepts or, know, meaning like, can you recycle a concept into a new blog post? Can you take a blog post, take some of the examples and then turn that into a YouTube video where you dive into case studies? You know, like can the content power other forms of content or channels? Can you create some educational content that
Ali (10:49)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
Amanda Natividad (11:17)
your customer support team can leverage. know, like those are things that speak to sustainability. And it also speaks to the notion of your content meeting business goals, right? So if you're creating a piece of content that is useful for your sales team, right? It's useful for your customer success team. And then maybe at some point, you know, it can drive organic traffic. , know, you don't always know that right away, but if you're seeing that then...
Ali (11:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (11:45)
most likely, you know, that's some high quality content that's meeting business objectives. People are getting utility out of it. So that's the thing I really try to ⁓ get people to think about. And throughout my marketing career, that is a way that I've had some success in selling up content to the executive team. It's like, hey, let's focus on some sustainability for the next couple months, and then we'll go back and look through
Ali (11:48)
Thank you.
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Amanda Natividad (12:13)
attribution because the other thing too is especially in B2B, right? Or when you have longer sales cycles, you don't always know your impact on pipeline until you look back like six months or whatever that might be. Because then we were finding that like, ⁓ we actually are closing deals from some of these case studies. We just, we don't know it right away. You know, we don't, someone might say they came in because they knew about your product.
Ali (12:21)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (12:43)
But in the end, maybe they converted because they found a case study on your site and was like, ⁓ that's a similar industry to me. I think I can have similar success if I, you you leverage this tool in a similar way.
Ali (12:50)
Mm-hmm.
That makes sense. Do you think it's even worthwhile then? I mean, if you took a longer time period to try to still do some type of marketing attribution reporting, or is it more of like a correlation at this point and not trying to connect it back so closely?
Amanda Natividad (13:11)
I think it is more correlation, I'm sure a lot of people will disagree with me.
Cause I know some people will have more sophisticated ways of tracking this. And if that's you listening, awesome, more power to you. Like great, like keep using it if you can. But you know, also maybe challenge yourself too, to figure out is this even correct? You know, like, this the right, like, are you doing multi-touch attribution properly?
you talk to a couple people in a marketing team and have times and then someone's gonna admit like actually it's, it's, an attribution is actually broken. Like actually we think it happens here. We checked, we tracked it in, in our CRM, but then actually Salesforce said this,
Ali (13:44)
Yeah.
Amanda Natividad (13:51)
I'm like 80 % sure this lead is coming from. Yeah.
Ali (13:53)
Or it's misleading, right? It over
rotates on the stuff that's easy to track like Google Ads and then, ⁓ 90 % of our revenue is coming from Google Ads. Okay. Is it? That's just the only thing you can track. Yeah.
Amanda Natividad (14:03)
Yeah. Yeah. Is it? Yeah. Can I ask you this? Like, you you feel
like you have really good attribution of your content or marketing
Ali (14:13)
mean, I still want to have it in the mix. So like as I'm working with our rev ops team and we're building out our new set of dashboards, I'm like, let's throw the pipeline report in there. Let's look at it. Let's see if we can find any nice clean connections between they attended this thing. They went and did that thing and influence on pipeline, then kind of alongside that also just how do we monitor
Amanda Natividad (14:16)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Ali (14:36)
Like you said, brand impressions, reach we're getting on social, those things that are a little bit harder to measure. And then can we see correlations over time there in the conversations we're driving for the sales team? So I kind of like, I don't want to totally abandon attribution marketing yet, but sort of keeping a toe on both, I guess.
Amanda Natividad (14:53)
Yeah, it's a little bit like, what is that called? It's a little bit like a weather vane. Or you could see it that way where it's like, I'm not saying like never look at your lead flow. Don't look at your pipeline. It's like, no, mean, you have systems in place. Like you should look at those things, but understanding that not everything you track is going to be a hundred percent accurate. But maybe it's still helpful to look at these trends and see like,
Ali (14:59)
Yeah.
Amanda Natividad (15:22)
then you can start seeing things like, like since we launched this big campaign, we've been seeing like, like, you know, 20 % more leads come in. Like you can totally do that.
Ali (15:29)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. Yep. Well, and I'm seeing more and more people refer back to, it's not a new stat, but that idea that...
95 % of your market is not currently in market for a solution and only like 5 % of your market is actively looking for a solution right now. So I feel like that's such an important one to keep bringing up too, that if marketing's job is to stay top of mind and generate demand from the 95 % and also the 5%, all of them, but if 95 % of them are not looking at it, then you can't expect that to immediately turn into...
demo or a sales call or a trial because they're not there yet. So you got to just keep hitting those touch points and warming people up.
Amanda Natividad (16:12)
Yeah. Yeah. And every now and then, like, I'll get an email from a new SparkToro customer who's like, hey, I know, I know your thoughts on I know your stance and attribution thought you'd like to know that I, you know, first heard of you on like this podcast about a year ago. And I decided to subscribe to your newsletter, which I've been following for like six months now. And then I just became a customer, which you might think is direct.
but it's actually because of your newsletter. know, like sometimes people will tell us that stuff and it's always fun to get that piece of intel, but that's not something I would ever know from, you know, our systems in place.
Ali (16:41)
That's wonderful.
Yeah, yeah. So you talk about ⁓ VOI instead of ROI, value on investment as a metric. Can you talk a little bit more about that?
Amanda Natividad (16:59)
yeah, yeah. So value on investment. I think if you're thinking about value versus the ROI,
you're thinking a little bit more holistically about, you know, overall resonance, ⁓ targeting, quality, whether you can impact a couple of teams. You know, I I feel like you're thinking a little bit more big picture about the overall marketing efforts. So I like to say , think VOI, not just ROI. And the other thing too is that when you're thinking about VOI,
Ali (17:27)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (17:36)
you're also taking a more long-term focused approach. know, cause I feel like ROI is kind of associated with like, great, we put, you know, a thousand dollars in the ads. What's our ROAS? Are we getting, you know, 1.5? What is it? But when you're, you know, especially when you're creating some longer tail campaigns or just, you know, things that take longer, like it might be, it might be what one quarter you focus on some research report with a couple of accompanying assets.
That's not something you're going to get ROI on like within that week. That's the thing that you, you do throughout the quarter throughout the, you know, the following three months or so you look at all of the other, you know, accompanying metrics. You know, you look at your social media metrics, email, you might look at organic traffic too. You might look at social listening, right? All these things that are part of, that are influenced by that content piece.
Ali (18:09)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (18:36)
And then you're also looking at this across your whole audience ecosystem, which then enables you to think about, okay, what value have I created and what value are we getting , are we as a company getting from having created this campaign?
Ali (18:41)
Yeah.
Hmm.
Which also requires a lot of patience, right? We just ran a webinar and it was the first one that the company has done in a while. And we had 280 registrants, which we were really excited about for our first one.
Amanda Natividad (18:55)
It does.
Ali (19:05)
And so I built this list in HubSpot of people who have either booked a demo or signed up for a trial after seeing the webinar. And I'm like hitting refresh on the list. Like, let's see if more people have come in. so far, it's like two people. And I'm just like, ⁓ more, more, But then I'm like, OK, let's think about this. This could be the first time they've been exposed to DataBox at all. They're ingesting it. They're thinking about it. Maybe they're not in market for a solution right now. But...
Like reminding myself, like you said, this is not a one time, and I think a lot of marketers, myself included, are guilty of that. Like we dropped the campaign and then we're like, okay, we're done. Like close that chapter onto the next instead of just continuing to repurpose that and promote it and squeeze at least three months worth of content out of it. And it could be months before, you know, you see the fruit from that. It's not going to be an immediate thing,
Amanda Natividad (19:56)
It's true, and it's hard when you're in it all the time. When you are heads down, focused creating that content, it's hard not to think, okay, what's next, what's next, what's next? And I think we at SparkToro are guilty of it as well. When I first joined the company, one of the first things I said to Rand Fishkin was, I think you create too much content. And by that I meant like...
Ali (20:07)
Yeah.
you
Amanda Natividad (20:23)
I think you're creating too many net new things because every time Rand does a presentation somewhere, it's like 80 % new at least. And I'm like, you don't just reuse the existing ones. And he was like, not normally. I'm like, whoa. And so I was like, I think you should do that more. I'm like, I think not everyone is seeing this stuff.
Ali (20:27)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (20:46)
And as I'm saying it out loud right now, I'm realizing, I need to do that right now with some of my existing stuff.
Ali (20:50)
I'll
cancel a couple of those things I was going to go create. Yep. And I think as a marketer, I'm nodding along. This makes sense to me. Fortunate to work with leaders who get this, but not the case still in a lot of organizations. So I'm curious how you would help educate, let's say, a CFO or a sales leader or even board members who are still just strictly tied to this marketing's got to prove its ROI.
Amanda Natividad (20:53)
Yeah
Ali (21:19)
and how you would try to educate them around a different way of thinking about it.
Amanda Natividad (21:22)
I've had really, I've had good success in working with like CFOs, salespeople, even legal teams, because something I try to do is I try to create content that meets their business objectives. one thing I might do is I might have like a big campaign or project that I really care about as a content marketer where I'm like,
Ali (21:37)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (21:47)
I really want to do this state of report or whatever it might be. And then that could be my thing or like the marketing team, that's what we care about. But maybe sales doesn't care about that. So I also try to find ways to help sales meet their goals. And so by that, I would meet regularly with my sales teams and be like, hey, what do you need for me? If you could assign me anything you want me to do.
Ali (21:56)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (22:16)
What would that be? And oftentimes it was, I need more case studies. Like I need a new one. And they were just like, I know that you do this a lot, like, but I need, what I want to do is I want to have like a book of a bunch of different case studies that show success of our product. And I want to be able to bring it to a meeting and thump it on the table and just have that weight, like speak for itself. And I was like, all right.
Ali (22:17)
Hmm.
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (22:46)
Lesson learned. And so from there, I dug into creating as many case studies as I could. And I created a book, like a literal book out of it. And that was something that like, that was really successful for us at the time. This was during my time at Fitbit on the B2B team. Another thing I've done in working with sales teams is, so, you know, I think a lot of marketers who work in a, maybe a larger or
Ali (22:55)
Wow.
Amanda Natividad (23:15)
I don't want to say more mature because it doesn't have to be a mature organization, but maybe a larger organization. They might need to work with their legal team on verifying any kinds of claims or statements that they say about the product. So what I did there was I worked to create this sort of master repository of claims that were already approved. And so it was like, here's the claim, here's the usage, and then here's when it was approved.
Ali (23:20)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Ooh, I love that.
Amanda Natividad (23:41)
And then whenever I created content moving forward, obviously I had legal sign off on it. And so whenever I would create new content moving forward, I would try to reference one of those pre-approved claims. And then I would mark it in the document. Like this this claim was approved, you know, two months ago or like on this date. And it helped us move a lot faster. yeah, so that was a way of like,
Ali (23:45)
Yeah.
Mm-hmm.
I love that. That's brilliant.
Amanda Natividad (24:06)
not really meeting legal's objectives, right? But it was meeting them where they were. Let me make it a little bit easier for you. Let me do what I can to make this more sustainable for our workflow.
Ali (24:12)
Yeah.
Amanda Natividad (24:16)
If it's not ROI or VOI, it's at least showing you value their time and their partnership. And that will take you places.
Ali (24:21)
Mm-hmm. That's really, mm-hmm.
That's a great, that's a great lesson I'm thinking about.
already. Like, how I can apply to myself? Like, yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that's really applicable in a lot of ways and similar to how we market to our audiences, where, you know, I'm always talking to people about, let's start with, I know you talk about this all the time, too, like, let's start with what the audience needs and sincerely and authentically meet their needs. And that will lead to eventually a product conversation instead of starting with what we want to talk about and trying to bring them
Amanda Natividad (24:31)
Yeah
Ali (24:59)
trying to push them there too fast, but.
I mean, it's kind of the same internally too with stakeholders, like coming to the table with, love that you just straight up said, like, what's the most important thing that I could fix for you or create for you? And you mentioned earlier in our conversation that very often, if you do focus on creating that sales enablement content, or in my case, along with that, I'm also partnering with our community manager and we're working on creating like content for our customer community. And both of those types of content are going to be like pretty far down the funnel, middle or bottom funnel. ⁓
and maybe low search volume, but really high search intent. And so they're gonna have some marketing utility down the road too, while also meeting the needs of your stakeholders.
Amanda Natividad (25:38)
Yeah.
Ali (25:40)
I wanna make sure you've got a couple minutes to talk to us about data-driven audience research since that's what SparkToro does. So I'll play the role of skeptic for a hot second, because I'm sure you've had people ask, why can't I just use Chat GPT or AI to do my audience research? So why can't they?
Amanda Natividad (26:00)
Well, you could, but you would have no way of verifying how true it is. Right. And I think what's tricky is that because these LLMs, they basically operate on a series of statistics, right. They generate the most likely text that's supposed to come next, which is why sometimes it's right. But it's also why most of the time it feels right because directionally it looks correct.
So it's hard not to see that and go like, well, that sounds right. That probably is right. And okay, that was free or it was part of my $20 a month subscription, but you can't verify if it's true. And we also know, like Sam Altman himself says that, know, chat GPT hallucinates, right? He himself, I think recently said that he was surprised at how much people trust it. Like, that's a little bit. But if you're using other means,
Ali (26:46)
Mm-hmm.
⁓ awesome.
Amanda Natividad (26:57)
And it doesn't have to be SparkToro, but it should. If you're using other means to get this data, then you know where it's coming from. know, if you're using BuzzSumo for social listening, you know it's coming from the social media platforms that they're looking at. For SparkToro, you know that it's coming from a mix of clickstream search and social data. And which means that it's coming from actual users.
Ali (27:21)
Mm-hmm.
Amanda Natividad (27:26)
it's from actual user behavior. It's not going to be personalized. It's going to be on aggregate, but then at least you are understanding what certain cohorts or types of people are doing online. And then you can follow those trends.
Ali (27:39)
Mm-hmm, that makes sense. Do you have any favorite examples where like an audience insight changed the course either for you or for a client of how you were thinking about marketing strategy?
Amanda Natividad (27:51)
let's see. I always like using this wall street journal example where there are certain types of people who might say, like, I read the wall street journal and that may or may not be true. Right. And I don't think anybody is intentionally lying. I mean, maybe some people are, but I think for the most part, people are like, no, no, no, that's what I read. That's what, that's what informs some of my business thinking. But then when you look up some of these audiences or what they're doing online, you'll see that that they actually read is morning brew.
Ali (28:04)
Mm.
Amanda Natividad (28:22)
You know, where it's like, there's nothing wrong with morning brew. What I'm saying is just that those aren't the same thing. Right. And then if you're somebody who reads morning brew instead of Wall Street Journal, you're probably in a very different demographic. You probably have very different other content tastes. And that's I think that's a good example of someone who might in good faith say one thing, but they actually do another. Yeah.
Ali (28:29)
great.
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. That's good.
curious if you could build your perfect dashboard, your perfect set of reports, and maybe you feel like you already have them. Awesome. But if not, ⁓ what would Amanda's perfect VP of Marketing dashboard look like?
Amanda Natividad (29:03)
⁓ my perfect dashboard.
would have correct attribution of how people are subscribing to my newsletter and then what they do after that and what they do after they read my newsletter and it would also show uh it would also show like when they whatever wherever it is on the website like it would also show where they consider becoming a customer
Like if they then read the newsletter and go like, okay, I think I might buy SparkToro What am I going to do? I'd want to see that. And then I want to see the pages or, you know, the touch points where they actually do convert. Like at what point, like where are they? And I think I would, would also want to know where it is in their customer journey that they're subscribed or not subscribing, ⁓ purchasing. Cause I want to know like, how often do we get people who are like, okay,
Ali (29:55)
Mm-hmm.
Mm-hmm. ⁓
Amanda Natividad (30:08)
I have heard about this tool for a long time. I'm gonna just go buy it and I'm gonna cancel it if I don't like it. Or how many people are like, I'm gonna read their blog for a while. I'm gonna subscribe to their content for a while. And then I'm gonna think about my decision. That's what I would wanna
Ali (30:24)
Where can people go and follow you and find more of your work?
Amanda Natividad (30:28)
Yeah, you can find more of my work at sparktoro at sparktoro.com. You can also subscribe to our audience research newsletter. That's the best way to get ongoing updates. And then as for me personally, you can find me at Amanda Nat on the socials and check out my podcast. It is the meme team podcast where we talk about the marketing headlines or the business headlines and what that means for marketing and virality. So it's a fun kind of newsy weekly podcast.
Ali (30:56)
Awesome! That sounds great Amanda. Thank you so much. You bet. Bye bye.
Amanda Natividad (30:58)
Yeah, thanks Ali, thanks for having me.