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The Grazing Grass Podcast features insights and stories of regenerative farming, specifically emphasizing grass-based livestock management. Our mission is to foster a community where grass farmers can share knowledge and experiences with one another. We delve into their transition to these practices, explore the ins and outs of their operations, and then move into the "Over Grazing" segment, which addresses specific challenges and learning opportunities. The episode rounds off with the "Famous Four" questions, designed to extract valuable wisdom and advice. Join us to gain practical tips and inspiration from the pioneers of regenerative grass farming.
This is the podcast for you if you are trying to answer: What are regenerative farm practices? How to be grassfed? How do I graze other species of livestock? What's are ways to improve pasture and lower costs? What to sell direct to the consumer?
Cal: Welcome to the Grazing
Grass Podcast Episode 91.
Jordan: build yourself the mindset
to go and start tackling it because
failure is the only way forward.
Don't be afraid of
failure, just embrace it
Cal: You're listening to the Grazing Grass
Podcast, helping grass farmers learn from
grass farmers, and every episode features
a grass farmer and their operation.
I'm your host, Cal Hardage.
On today's show we have Jordan Meyer,
and he comes from a conventional
dairying background, and moving
towards grass fed, Everything.
Okay, maybe he doesn't have
everything, but he's got lots of
different species, uh, pigs, goats.
He's running grass fed dairy, so
you'll want to catch the episode
to find out what all he's doing.
And especially how he is doing
conventional dairying and
doing some grass fed dairying.
He has an interesting solution
with out of the box thinking there.
Very good episode, I
think you'll enjoy it.
First, let's do 10 seconds about my farm.
And actually today we're going to
talk about the podcast just a little.
First off, if you've not joined us at
the Grazing Grass Community on Facebook,
I encourage you to go there and join us.
Just request to join and make
sure you answer those questions.
Secondly, if you're a grass
farmer and you want to share about
your story, go to grazinggrass.
com and click on Be Our
Guest and fill out the form.
We're looking for grass farmers to share
about their journey and their operation.
Whether you have decades of
experience or just getting
started or somewhere in between.
We'd love to hear from you.
If you go to grazinggrass.
com and click on be our guest.
Also, the Noble Research Institute has
their spring courses open or courses
open for the first part of the year.
You want to go check those out
and get signed up for that.
Enough about the podcast.
Let's talk to Jordan.
Jordan, we want to welcome you
to the Grazing Grass podcast.
We're excited you're here today.
Jordan: for having me on Cal.
Appreciate it.
Cal: Jordan, to get started,
tell us a little bit about
yourself and your operation.
Jordan: So I'm Jordan Meyer.
I farm in Southeast
Minnesota in Caledonia.
I grew up on our family farm where we
have a dairy farm and actually grew up
with hogs as well, farrow to finish.
I always had a passion for
farming my whole entire life.
I wasn't the kind of kid that wanted to
be the fireman or the police officer.
I wanted to be a farmer.
And, yeah, I got out of high school and
continued working on the family dairy
there and ended up buying my uncle's
share out two years ago now, and we
milk 160 cows on the family dairy.
And then my wife and I started
Wholesome Family Farms.
Back in 2018, that's a
whole journey in itself.
I should jump back and back in 2015,
just four years out of high school.
Uh, my brother and I, we were able
to get our hands on a farm and start
renting it from an old bachelor.
And we decided to go the organic route
and do some organic row crops and stuff.
And got into soil health a lot, started
listening to YouTube videos and seeing
other people do cover crops and the
whole nine yards and kind of was getting
into organic no till a little bit.
And, and then we started doing some
cereal rye on some of the ground
there on that farm and tried doing the
no till organic soybeans and stuff.
And the more we progressed down that path.
The more we started seeing perennials
show up, like grasses, we had
orchard grass and white clover and
red clover and Timothy and the whole
nine yards, it just all showed up.
And I'm like, well, this isn't going to
work for an organic no till situation.
And this was right after we were
really diving in deep with our grazing.
And that's when we decided
to make the turn and just let
the land speak for itself.
And we decided to turn the
whole farm into grazing there.
And.
Um, the farm is a 500 acre farm,
300 acres of it at that time was
completely clear cut and logged.
And we had the cropland doing this turning
over into perennials all on its own.
And we grazed some failed soybean
stands that we had that was organic.
The next year it just blew up into
a perfect perennial system that with
tons and tons of diversity and we
were, we were set and running, running.
It was pretty cool to see.
We have some awesome YouTube videos
and stuff that shows that farm on our
Wholesome Family Farms YouTube page.
But yeah, it's been a
really exciting journey.
Cal: Very good.
Yeah, it does sound very exciting.
Now you mentioned you clear cut that land.
Did you seed that clear cut
area in anything or did that
come back from the seed bed?
Jordan: That the clear cut area came back
from the seed bed, but the clear cut area
that's mostly multi floor rose and a bunch
of other invasive woody species that just
erupted after you took the canopy off.
So that woods, it was never
logged for I don't even know how
many years my landlord's entire
life and he's 85 years old.
But, uh, once they took all the
trees out, there was maybe a
tree every 60, 70 to 100 yards.
And it's just bare and I've seen a huge
opportunity to bring in a goat herd
and that's where the goats took off
from there and where we were able to
utilize that resource there for that.
So, I should also say what we have for
our enterprises too, I suppose, huh?
Cal: Yeah, go ahead and share
because there's quite a list.
Jordan: uh, after diving
into the whole soil health.
bandwagon.
We, we went for it all and we did, uh,
grass fed beef, grass fed raw milk,
pastured pork, pastured poultry, , then
we got the goats and, yeah, it's,
it's been a, quite the journey.
Between that and the dairy,
it's, it keeps a guy pretty busy.
Cal: I, I grew up on dairy and
dairied for a while, so I understand
how busy that dairy keeps you.
Now, we were a little bit smaller.
I think at the most we may have milked
110, 120 head, but typically we stayed
down in that 60 or 70 head range.
And sometimes we got a little bit less
than that just because of our land
area and the way we were doing it here.
How big is your barn you milk in?
Jordan: So we have a 10 by 10
parallel parlor that we milk in,
so that makes it kind of nice.
Cal: So 10 by 10.
You all should be able to push about
what 80 head through there in an hour.
So milking takes you
about 2 hours slightly
Jordan: And then just a little bit of
cleanup and works out pretty slick.
Cal: Yeah.
Oh, very good.
We had a, um, double 4 herringbone.
Of course, when we got out,
parallels were just coming in or
that parabone a little bit later.
Um, so we had a double 4 herringbone.
which when we got very many
numbers, we were spending all
kinds of hours in the dairy barn.
So, so that's really nice to have a
big enough barn that you can spend
a couple hours milking and get
out of there, do some other stuff.
And of course, then you got to
Jordan: Yep, yep, for sure.
Sometimes that return later
is kind of a good thing.
Then it's kind of the slow down space
after the crazy rush of making it to
all the different farms during the day.
Cal: I'm sure it would be.
So when you got that, land you
leased in 2015 and you tried to
do some more organic, cropping,
that's when you got beef cattle in?
Jordan: So we started going down the
soil health route and there was actually
a soil health summit in North Dakota.
And that's really what turned us
on to really going down the rabbit
hole of regenerative agriculture.
There was a lot of awesome speakers there.
Gabe Brown and, uh, who else was there?
Christine Nichols and.
Just lots of other really, really good
speakers and it just lit a fire under
us and we've never looked back since.
Cal: And that, that's one of the
huge benefits about going to a
conference, it just gets you energized
and ready to go when you go home.
And that's not even considering
the networking that pays dividends
on our, on down the road.
So yeah, excellent.
What did you choose to do with
your beef cattle when you got them?
Jordan: So right away we started
out with cows that we bought in and
we calved them out and we started
doing the direct marketing with
the grass fed beef and all of that.
But then we ended up getting
more acres when we went out of
the organic row crop production.
So then we decided to dabble with the
stocker business where we buy them in, in
the spring and then sell them in the fall.
So that was pretty nice.
We were able to, you
know, fill in the gaps.
We could stock the farm
to the right capacity.
And then in the fall, we were able
to sell them about September time.
Then we had about a whole nother month of
growing season left after they were gone.
And then we'd have stockpile left over
for our cow calf herd and we're able
to graze well into the winter every
single year and up in Minnesota where
we're really nice to be able to do that.
Cal: Still have the cow calf,
but then you're doing stockers
Jordan: Well, that's a funny story too.
We run, we've been really running numbers
and looking at the cow calf enterprise,
we actually let that go and we're
focusing more on the stocker enterprise.
Um, and we do a little bit
of custom grazing as well.
So, yeah, we're still able to fill in
the gaps and now, right the way we're
doing it now, we have our big goat herd,
so we graze all of our grass during
the growing season, and then in the
fall and winter now, we're actually
still grazing our goats and should
be able to graze well into January,
actually, on the grass and then the
wood edges and stuff with them too, so.
Cal: Oh, yes.
Yeah.
So you found the, the Stalker Enterprise
was more profitable than the cow calf?
Jordan: Yep.
So when you run, you know, I guess
like the ranching for profit way, you
know, they segregate every enterprise
out throughout the cow, enter cow, calf
enterprise, you know, so when you look
at the way that you have a cow, she's
got her input costs throughout the year,
so much in hay, so much in labor, you
get that calf, and then you raise that
all up to approximately weaning age.
And then what you get for that
calf, you know, by the time
you deduct all of the income.
The expenses off of that, you know, you're
really not making a whole lot compared to
what you can on the stock or enterprise.
Cal: Now Before you purchased your
first stockers, did you all, did you
have a history of doing stockers or was
Jordan: that was very new and very scary.
Cal: Well, I'll be honest right there.
We have done, we did stockers
one year and we kinda did it.
And I say kinda, um, dad went to sell,
he bought a, a few head, we, we actually
wintered them, which I'm not quite sure
why we wanted to winter some, but anyway,
that's what we did, and then we sold
them, and I don't think we kept great
numbers on those, that's something I
need to revisit, but for me, always, I
think, I've got the cow calf, I need to
bring in some stockers when the growing
season's here, but to be honest, it's,
I look at that, and I don't know a lot
about the stalker, uh, stalker industry.
So tell us a little bit
about that first journey with
stalkers and going through that.
Jordan: Well, a young buck like me,
you know, we got our loan at the
bank and I was talking with my buyer.
I didn't really have time to go sit
in a sale barn all day and buy them.
So I had somebody buy them for
Cal: Oh yeah.
Jordan: like, yeah, I bought a 44
head and paid a dollar 78 for them.
And I'm just like, Oh
boy, like that's enough.
You know, cause at that time that was
a really high price and I'm like, wow,
I wasn't really expecting that, but
it actually turned out really good for
us and we did about two pounds a day
gain on them and we made good money
and it just kept me going with it.
Year after year.
So, um, and then by doing that,
you know, we kind of see what the
buyers are there are all looking for.
And then, you know, the cattle are coming
off of grass, which is another huge thing
because the people that are taking these
cattle and put them in the feed yard.
You know, our job as grass managers
is to grow frame on them animals
and not pack them with so much fat.
So when they're able to grow more frame,
they can put more weight on them in
the feedlot and then they can get just
exponential gains on them too, you
know, putting four pounds plus on them
per day and they just explode and it's.
Profitable for us on our end and then
it makes them more profitable too.
And every time you're sitting in the
ring, when all the buyers are there
waiting for our group of cattle to
come in, they're all sitting on their
phones and getting ready to call all
their people, you know, cause they're
cattle buyers that are there too.
Yeah, you can tell when grass
cattle are coming in the ring
because everybody gets excited.
So it's pretty cool.
Cal: Oh yeah.
Now, when are you typically
buying your stocker calves?
Jordan: we've learned a
little bit on that too.
Our one cattle buyer, he's the one year he
said, oh, we got to get them bought early.
We better start buying in January.
I'm like, ah, let's let's push it back
till at least February, you know, but
when I did that then I had a lot of
hay expense in them and I'm like, Oh,
well, the added fertility that I'll
get from the land and, you know, maybe
I'll only gain a half to a one pound
of gain per day, just feeding them hay.
And by the time I subtracted all of my
hay feeding expenses and then everything
that wasn't near as good as just
waiting right until grass to get them.
Even if you have to pay just a little
bit more for the cattle, it makes way
more sense just to wait till grass
is ready to go, because you can have
more problems with health issues with
them and getting them acclimated and
stress and, you know, it's just grass
is medicine for them, cattle, and
when they can hit that right away,
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Jordan: you're hitting the ground running.
Cal: So about what size are
you buying, bringing them in
and what size are you shipping
Jordan: typically we like to
buy them in at right around 600
pounds and then ship them out.
Right around eight to 900 pounds area.
That seems to be where the
cattle buyers like it the best.
That's what we found anyway.
Cal: Oh, very good.
Do you have a particular
type you like to go
In that you, you want black steers
Jordan: Yeah, that is,
that's another thing too.
That's a big one.
Yeah.
The, the black steers, that's,
we run all steers and black ones.
They sell the best.
Although reds, reds do
pretty good too, though.
Like I wouldn't be afraid
to try a group of reds.
My first year I did it, they
were all red cattle too.
And I think they gained the best and
they looked the slickest and everything.
But yeah, if you can get good
genetic grass animals that are.
We'll do good on grass.
Yeah, the black ones, they sell the best.
Everybody wants black.
So, guess you gotta do what they Want.
Cal: Well, I'd mentioned earlier
that we, we tried stockers one year.
We'd bought a few.
And, um, so we focused on black heifers
because we have not done stockers before.
In fact, that's the only time we,
we even played with it and we, we
didn't do a great job then, but we
bought black heifers and we thought
that gives us a couple of exit
Jordan: mm hmm.
Cal: Price is right.
We can sell them when they get bigger.
If we don't think that pencil's
in, we can breed them and then
go a different route with them.
And when it got time, we ended up selling
them, but we had one we held on to.
There was a little black heifer
that had both her ears chewed off.
When my dad bought her, dad went
to her and bought her and she's
got a little bit of white on the
underneath, just, just a touch.
But dad paid, I want to say
20 cents a pound for her.
It was something.
So, so when we got ready to sell
them, we really didn't want to
send her through with the others.
If, if they would have.
Overshadowed her that'd been great,
but we were afraid they're gonna
pull her out knock her terrible.
So we held on to her Well, she got
bred, you know as happens So I bought
her from my dad as a bred heifer and
um that cow She is one of my best cows.
I don't know what she's bred.
She she's she's calm enough I'd like
for her to be a little bit calmer,
but um, she breeds back every year.
She's ugly But she
raises a wonderful calf.
I'd take a whole herd like her.
It's just, it's funny how that
Jordan: kidding.
Gotta get lucky sometimes, right?
Cal: Right.
Yes.
Yeah.
Now, you got started with the stockers, or
your cow calf, and then you did stockers.
But you have a whole bunch
of other species here.
You've got your poultry,
your pork, and your goats.
When did you add those, and why
Jordan: So, those were actually all
added right away, and we wanted to
Really hit hard with the diversity
part of the soil health part of it.
And we have a lot of woods where I'm at.
So like the pigs and the goats and all
of that, they really are awesome for
running through the woods and stuff.
So like the pigs, you know, we'll
feed them their grain every day and
we'll actually feed them right amongst
like multi floor rose and stuff.
And they'll root the big roots up
on the multi floor rose bushes and.
Cal: Yeah.
Jordan: Yeah.
I honestly, the pigs are really
well adapted to be in the woods.
It's, it's like air conditioning for them.
You know, pigs like to root when
they're in the woods that, you know,
they don't root as deep because
they're in shade and the ground
is cooler naturally all the time.
Pigs don't sweat.
It's just an all around
perfect environment for them.
They really thrive in there.
And then if you get towards fall,
you're going to have acorns and
all of them different things that
they can chew and nibble on and.
Yeah, they just really enjoy it.
And then, yeah, the goats,
you know, they really hit home
with all the brush and stuff.
We have hundreds and hundreds of acres.
It's, I haven't even hit it all.
And we have a pretty large herd of goats.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Jordan: So we followed the
cattle with the chickens.
Cal: So you've got your your cattle in
one herd and then you've got chickens
follow them and then you've got your
pig herd in the woods and you've got
goats in the wherever they need to be.
Jordan: I should.
Kind of give you more context to kind
of the way our farms are, you know,
I got my home farm where the dairy is
and my brother and I bought a farm that
joins up to the dairy farm right now.
Currently all of mine and my
brother's land goes towards the dairy.
So it's got row crops and hay
on it and that kind of thing.
Um, my wife and I are really
Itching to get that one turned
completely into grass too.
But working with my dad on that, I
want to, I want to do my own grazing
herd there and then walk them up to the
parlor apart from the conventional dairy.
That's in the works,
Cal: Oh, yes.
Jordan: but yeah, we'll,
we'll get there hopefully.
In 2024 or 2025, that's
the next big adventure.
Um, just getting away from all the
herbicides and stuff like that.
I just totally believe
in the grass part of it.
And that's where my heart is and
doing the soil health and building a
healthier community and everything else.
And, and then our other farm where we were
doing the organic row crops on, that one's
actually 13 miles north of my home farm.
So we have to do a little bit
of travel to that one too.
And then where I'm at right now,
my mother in law's here, this
one's kind of seven miles East.
So it's kind of like a big triangle.
Um, but this year when we were running
the cattle on the two farms that were
North of my home farm, we would actually
run the cattle all in one group on.
Each of them farms and we truck them
back and forth as we're grazing.
This way we were able to extend our
rest periods and we were able to slow
them down during the D4 drought that
we had during the 2023 growing season.
And that made the world
of difference for us.
Huge, huge difference.
Cal: I've got some properties that
are, are apart from each other, and
they're not as far apart as yours,
I've kept two different herds at times,
and at times I combine them, trying
to figure out what to do best, but
I think in 2024, my, I'm going to do
my best to keep all one herd and move
them between the properties as needed.
I think that would.
would work better.
It's just, I just think about
trucking them, hauling them.
It's so many trips and it's
going to take me half a day.
And, and that's always, that's
always what convinces me.
I think about it.
And then I'm like, I'll just
put some over there, but then
I'm going over there every day.
So if I add up all the extra travel
time, I'm sure it comes out about the
same or better to truck them over.
It's just hard to, to give that
whole amount of time right then.
Jordan: Yeah, that was one
thing that concerned me too.
You know, you got your trucking
expense to go from farm to farm.
Um, we were moving over 200
head from farm to farm that way.
And we'd have like six trailers show up
in one day and we could start at about
eight in the morning, maybe done by noon.
Um, you know, it's an expense, but when
you figure in your time and your labor
and spending time with them, cattle,
while you're out there, you can do
a better job of grazing them and the
management of the grass and stuff.
It's a win-win all the way around
instead of running from farm to farm
and trying to get back from milking
and all of that kind of stuff.
Cal: Right.
Yeah.
Yeah, that milking time, you
can't deviate from it very
Jordan: yeah, for sure.
Yeah.
Cal: With your goats and hogs, how are
you moving them and managing them in the
Jordan: So the pigs, they're
run separate from the goats.
They're in their own place
and they're on the home farm.
So they're kind of close to
where I live and everything.
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: helps out a lot.
Um, I do feed them daily.
Uh, I don't really use a feeder too much.
Our ground and our soil in
our woods is pretty mellow.
So I don't really like to keep
them in one spot for too long.
I like to kind of move them around
within the paddock that they have.
And about every four days, typically
they'll get moved to a new, fresh paddock.
Unless if you get an inch or more of
rain, then you're moving them every day.
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: So yeah, pigs, they can
destroy some stuff in a hurry.
Cal: Before you go on to the goats,
just on the hogs there, are you using
poly wire to move them or electro
Jordan: using poly wire
for the, for the pigs.
And depending on the pig,
sometimes I'm lucky enough.
I can get by with just a single wire.
But then there's certain times
where the pigs are trickier
and I got to use two wires.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
And about how high do you put those
Jordan: so I guess it kind of
depends on the age of the pig.
If you're lucky enough where
they do respect it nice and you
have a good, good hot fence.
Uh, typically I would say about
eight to 10 inches for younger pigs,
but then once they get to be about
butchering time, just about knee high.
So probably right around 20 inches.
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: Yep, just enough.
So if they duck under it,
they're going to get hit.
And if they try to jump over,
they're going to get hit.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Yeah.
I've seen a lot of people with
their fences and their, pigs.
I have not personally done any pigs
with electric fence, but, it, it
seems to work good for a lot of people.
I would, in fact, I would love to do pigs.
I just don't know that I can make a
Jordan: Mm hmm, I guess yeah, that's
where the direct marketing comes in.
You know, you set your own price and
You don't need to do a whole lot You
just do what you think you can sell
and It'll slowly grow over time as
long as you have a product to speak for
itself it and then it's a good deal.
So I
Cal: Actually, on the pigs, do
you have a certain breed, and are
you farrowing, or are you bringing
Jordan: We bring in feeders typically.
So we don't typically have the
same breed every single year.
Um, we've done a little bit with,
uh, Red Waddle and then we've had
Berkshire and then Durac too, even.
I guess in all three of those breeds
actually do pretty well for us.
Mm
Cal: Yeah.
Very good.
so I mentioned one holdup I
have is profitability on them.
And I think you bring up an excellent
point if you're direct marketing them.
That's a whole different game.
If you're thinking on the wholesale end,
you're sending them through a sale ring.
You're not working with
very good margins there.
The other issue I have
is wild hogs in the area.
Jordan: We don't have
that problem up here.
Cal: I, I suspected
that, but I wasn't sure.
Um, because that always gives
me pause when I think about
how I'm gonna have to do it.
Um, so, I haven't
Jordan: Maybe you'll have to invite
me down to go hunt them sometime.
Cal: There we go.
Come on down.
Yes.
The goats.
How are you doing the
Jordan: So the goats, I guess
we like to kid them out in the
spring on fresh green grass.
Uh, we put the bucks in about
December 5th area and then kid
about the beginning of May and then.
Move them around all summer
long, typically that way.
So we've done a little bit of both ways.
We've gone with polywire and we've had
success and many failures with that too.
So, uh, typically if you keep them
full and you keep moving, the polywire
can definitely work well, but with
all of our other enterprises and
things we got going on, I like to
try to move them like once every four
days to a week in that timeframe.
So if you're not moving them like once
every day or every other day, I found like
with polywire, it just hasn't really been.
Too effective enough for me to
be able to use the polywire.
So we actually did go to netting last year
with them and that works out pretty well.
But we have a lot of steep
terrain and we're only 10 miles
from the Mississippi river here.
So we have a lot of bluffs and
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: steep side Hills
and all of that fun stuff.
So it's, it's a challenge,
but if you get it cleared out
enough, it works out pretty well.
Cal: When you go in and put that
netting up, are you going in and
clearing out an area, or are you just
trying to find an area that's fairly
clear and using that as the fence
Jordan: tried to get an area as
clear as I can, but definitely
you can't always have that happen.
So there's plenty of buckthorn
and multiflora rose and yeah,
if you're trying to snake it
through, it can be a challenge.
Cal: I know with the electro
netting I use for goats, I love
it because the goat, well, let's
say it's a love hate relationship.
I love how good the goats
respect it and stay in it.
I hate having to move it.
It's um, some of the areas
the honey locust just reaches
out and grabs everything.
And um, it's yeah, but
it's really beneficial.
Now one thing I want to do this year
in 2024 is we come to an end here and.
Actually, by the time this will be
released, it will be 2024, but I'm
going to try and get my goats where
they're more respectful of poly wire.
Even if I, I think you hit on
a great point there, as long as
they are not too hungry, it works.
But if you keep them somewhere
too long, they're going to
go ahead and move themselves.
At least that's my assumption.
Jordan: You hit that nail
on the head, in my opinion.
Yeah, if you keep them full
and you keep them moving.
They'll stay in the polywire, but if you
have an accident one day and things don't
go quite as planned and if you're 15
minutes too late, they'll move themselves.
Cal: Oh, yes.
Jordan: had it where I was setting
up the next paddock and I'm right
there and they move themselves.
So it's just, they, they
just don't have patience.
It's nope.
And they can smell that fence off.
Just the other day, I was moving them
with netting and they, they must've
knew I had the fence off because I was
setting up a new paddock and here the
whole works comes running right out.
And when you have a good border collie,
you can get them put away pretty quick.
So it works out good.
Cal: Oh, yes.
Yeah.
Now, when you're moving your goats,
you've got a pretty good size flock.
How many, uh, electro netting
sections are you putting
Jordan: So usually we're putting up
right around 25 to 30 nets per paddock.
Cal: Oh, wow.
And here I am complaining about
four, so maybe I shouldn't complain.
Jordan: Oh, you get used to it right now.
It's pretty nice because we're still
grazing them here in the open fields
where we had the stockpiled grass.
And that's just a breeze compared
to doing it through the woods.
So I I'm kind of appreciating that,
but right now they're actually really
stripping the bark off the trees too.
Once it gets to be this time
of year and there's not as many
leaves, they really hit the bark
hard and it's pretty cool to see.
Cal: Oh, yes.
Now, one thing, um, we, we hadn't talked
about much yet, but I think you, you
are selling Um, grass fed, raw milk.
I think I word that right.
So you have a few cows
that you're grazing that
Jordan: Yes.
So we have six jerseys and they go
out and graze and pasture every day.
And then we bring them up
and we milk them once a day.
So when we, I bring them up, it's
actually like three, three o'clock in the
morning, I bring them up to the parlor
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: and I like to have them in
there first because then the parlor
is at its cleanest and everything
is really sanitized down nice.
You have a good clean product that way.
And then after I'm done milking those,
they go out in their own side pen and
they get to eat hay out there while
I'm milking the rest of the cows.
And then once I'm done with all the
parlor work and all the other cows and
cleaned up, then I can walk them back
down to their pasture and give them a
fresh new paddock of grass every day.
Cal: Oh, very interesting.
So, I was wondering, I'd read on your
website that you had a few grass fed cows.
I was wondering how you
were, the logistics of that.
So, and that makes sense.
If you milk them first,
the parlor's been cleaned.
Pipelines are clean.
They're not getting any residue of.
Um, non grass fed milk.
And if you have some residue for your,
for the conventional herd, that's not a
Jordan: But another thing I
should state too, we don't
even milk them in the pipeline.
Actually, we milk them separate in
the stainless steel buckets too.
And
Cal: Oh, so you got
buckets that you, they go
Jordan: yep, we keep it all separate
just like that because, you know,
from the washing cycle and stuff
like that, there could be water
and stuff in the pipelines too.
And when you're only dealing
with six cows, you know, I'd
rather have a perfectly premium
product when I'm working with it.
Cal: That's true because, you know,
you flush that line out and you want
to make sure you're not getting that
water in the bulk tank and stuff.
Um, but yeah, that's a valid
point, especially when you're
doing a specialty item like that.
You want to make it as, as
high a quality as possible.
Jordan: And yeah, milk quality
really speaks for itself too.
Cal: Yes, and you chose jerseys for
that is your is the conventional herd
jerseys Or do you decide on jerseys
because you were going grass fed
Jordan: So I chose jerseys cause
we were going grass fed with them.
Um, the conventional herd,
they're mostly Holsteins.
We have a little bit of Jersey
crossed Holsteins in there as well.
I have been breeding more
towards kind of the grass ones.
I'm in charge of the breeding.
Um, so when I buy semen and
stuff, I, I don't tell dad how
much I'm breeding him to that.
no, he, he's on board with it too.
We're, we're definitely
moving right along with that.
And he sees a lot of the points and
stuff that I'm trying to do and stuff.
And yeah, it's pretty good.
Cal: So you're milking a few cows and
having that grass fed raw milk Are you
finding there's a high demand for it?
Jordan: Yeah.
So when we started out, yeah,
it was slow going right away.
And then, well, we've only been doing
it now for a little over a year and the
demand is growing and growing and growing.
And.
Um, we charge enough for our milk too.
So it makes it worthwhile.
You know, I have to take special time out
of my day to go get just six cows up and,
you know, you know, and then bottle it
all separately and do all of that and we,
we charge 15 per gallon for our milk and.
Um, yeah, it's been a really good deal.
And then when you have a
quality product the way it is,
people are willing to pay it.
If it's, once they try it, they, there's,
there's people that were getting milk
for 2 a gallon, and then they're getting
it for 15, and they said their kids
will not drink any other milk anymore.
And they just absolutely love it.
My dad too, you know, he was another
one that drank the regular milk out of
the bulk tank his whole entire life.
And then as soon as he started drinking
this stuff, he was sold on it too.
And I always ask if I have
any leftover milk for him too,
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Because he doesn't want
to pay that retail price.
Jordan: Yeah, but it's
worth it to him though, too.
Uh, the, the benefits of raw
milk is just unbelievable.
So with all the health and everything.
Cal: I grew up drinking milk from the
bulk tank, and that milk is just so much
better than what you can buy in a store.
That, I imagine, that grass fed's the
Jordan: Definitely.
You hit that nail on the head.
I have grown up drinking regular milk
out of the bulk tank too and this
grass milk, you know, when you have a
good cream layer on the jar like four
inches thick, it's just like, wow,
this is a, this is some awesome stuff.
Cal: So are you able to
sell it all as raw milk?
Jordan: Yep.
So, yeah, they don't milk a whole
lot when they're on grass though.
They're not like a conventional cow where
they're milking 80 plus pounds per day.
And, you know, that's, they're getting
fed grain and they're a fine tuned
machine to produce, produce, produce.
And that's kind of the trouble in today's
world is everyone is focused on the
production, production, production, and
then quality is just out the wayside.
And it's really unfortunate because
people need the quality part of it.
They're not even understanding.
All the health part of it, you
know, food is thy medicine.
And I think people have
that mixed up nowadays.
They're going to the doctor for
the medicine instead of doing
the prevention side of it.
Cal: Yeah.
And did you, you may have
mentioned this earlier.
Are you milking your grass
fed dairy cows once a
Jordan: yep, just once a day.
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: saves a lot on time
and labor and quality of life.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Yeah, it does, you know, it's
that was always the thing.
Um, growing up, we talked
about twice a day milking, you
know, and all, all the time.
It's always like, do we
need a milk a third time?
I don't know where we'd find the
hours, but you, you get into that.
How much milk can you produce?
And that's where you're thinking.
I've read a lot of stuff on
once a day milking, which makes
it really appealing to me.
I always tell people, once you've
dairied, either you go running away
from it, or you can't get enough of it.
Because I'm telling my wife,
I need a couple dairy cows.
Jordan: We like to run
our numbers a lot too.
And, you know, our dream
eventually is to turn all of our
acres that we run into grass.
Cause that's what we believe in.
And we've been running numbers a
lot, you know, milking the extra cows
on that land that boots up to the
dairy and trying to figure out what
enterprise that we could go into.
That's going to be the most
profitable for us so we can make
the payments on the farm and.
You know, pay off all our other
debt and stuff that we have as well.
And just even milking conventional
cows on that ground once a day, milking
and 35 pounds of milk and take out all
the feed expenses and hay expenses.
And I even had it factored in.
We'd only milk them nine months
out of the year and had them dried
up from January 1st to March 31st.
Cal: Oh
Jordan: just blows every other
enterprise out of the water.
It's, it's really cool to see.
So, yeah, that's got me really excited.
Cal: Oh, yeah, I imagine so.
Now we touched on this just a
little bit with your milk sales.
You're also selling all these, um, grass
fed meat products to the end consumer.
How did that market go for
you in getting that developed?
Jordan: So my wife, she does
the direct marketing side.
She's the one that gets the emails
and does weekly emails and builds
the relationships with the customers.
And, uh, it's been going
really well for us.
She, she's really good at it.
I'm very thankful for that.
Cause that's not my forte.
I like to do the management side out
in the field and manage the grass
and the soil, and that's where I
thrive and she does a really good
job with the computer work and stuff.
So that's kind of how we do that but
She yeah does a really good job with
the direct marketing and all of that.
Cal: Oh, very good.
That, that's really beneficial.
Both of you working with
your strengths there.
And, um, yeah.
That really works out really well.
I noticed when looking at your, um,
website, got a blog up there she posts
stuff on, or I'm assuming she does it.
And then your email list, and you
have recipes going out, which I
thought all looked really nice.
Are you finding there's more demand
than you're able to produce, or are you
just growing with the demand right now?
How is that for you?
Jordan: we're, I would say we're
growing with the demand as far as like
the grass fed beef and stuff goes.
Um, the milk, there's times where
we come up short on the milk.
Actually, there's kind of
a new deal going around.
People are becoming more aware of how good
the milk is for you and everything else,
but yeah, it's basically just building the
relationship with the customers and that's
where things really start to take off.
Cal: So in going through, through this
journey, you've added a lot of enterprises
and getting it to the end consumer.
In going through your journey,
what's been maybe a challenge you
didn't anticipate that you've had?
Jordan: Well, I guess time management
was a really, really big one.
Cal: Oh
Jordan: mindset shifts
and everything else.
You know, you're the weird one when
you're starting to do this kind of stuff.
Uh, so you gotta have a pretty
tough layer of skin sometimes,
but it's pretty cool also to see.
People starting to change and do
some of the things that you're
doing, like bale unrolling and
bale grazing and stuff like that.
And all of a sudden now that's starting
to show up around the neighborhood.
And, uh, you know, people kind of
think, oh, well, he's going to go
broke before he even gets started.
And after you're doing it for five
years, then there's like, well, maybe
it ain't so bad, you know, and then they
start to do it, but yeah, um, Rochelle.
She's been going through a coaching
program and she's a certified
coach for time management and
mindset and stuff like that.
And that's been stuff that's really
helped out a lot with our time
management and getting all the things
done for our business and having
the quality of life for our family.
And it's been a really neat
journey that way too, so.
We're starting to help other farmers
out with that too, right now.
So that's been a really cool
thing to see other people too.
So, and starting off with their journey,
Cal: And time management is so tough.
For everyone, but I, you know, I grew up
on dairy and, and dairied for a while.
I know I've said that a hundred times,
but that took all the available time
and then we, you know, at the time I had
a few small things, but nothing major.
Um, but you've got all these
other enterprises going on.
And then, of course, your marriage
and your kids, which those all
require quality time as well.
So, I can see how time management is like
of utmost importance for you to get to
Jordan: definitely.
That is for sure.
It's been, it's been a real blessing
for us to be able to get our ducks
in a row and be able to do all the
things while having the quality of
life and having fun farming, you know.
That's what keeps it sustainable
and regenerative is being able to
fit all the pieces together and
be able to hit all your goals and
still have the quality family time.
That's kind of what's important
to us and I'm sure it's important
to most other farmers as well.
Cal: Yes.
And let's just put you
on the spot real quick.
If you had someone that came to you and
they're like, and they're trying to do
this and they're, and obviously they
need some help with time management.
What would you be your
first suggestion to them?
Jordan: I guess I would
say get in touch with us.
We're willing to help.
My wife just started a podcast,
you know, uh, we run
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Jordan: com and yeah, we're more than
willing to help out with whatever we can.
And there's a lot of good
content and stuff for them to
listen to on there for free.
And yeah, it just start there and
start listening and seeing what
people are doing to manage their time.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Very good.
And before we go to the
overgrazing section, Jordan,
we talked about a challenge.
Let's talk about what is one of
the biggest successes you've had.
Jordan: Oh, one of the biggest successes.
I guess turning both of the rented farms
a hundred percent into grass, that's
what has been what I would consider one
of my most favorite successes, I guess,
and being profitable at it and being
able to see the beautiful changes in
the soil health and everything, it's
just been phenomenal and just, it just
lights a fire under me to keep going and
going and doing more and more and more.
It's, it's a blast.
Cal: Wonderful.
And I'm sure if you were to, to consider
those points in time, when you first got
that rent land and what you were doing
versus now, the progress is so great.
And just from personal experience,
it's easy to forget about
that kind of progress, so you
need to reflect upon it and
Jordan: Mm hmm.
Cal: But yeah, excellent.
Jordan: And then being able to
Get a higher and higher stocking
rate and density and stuff.
It's been like just from 2022
season to 2023, we're actually
running 50 more animal units on
our acres than we were the year
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: And just to see improvements like
that is what really keeps you moving and
motivated, like you said, reflecting on
how far you've come and it just keeps
you going and makes you realize that all
the work you're doing is not for nothing.
It's definitely for something.
Cal: Right.
Yeah.
Well, Jordan, it's time we transition
to our overgrazing section.
And in our overgrazing section, we
take a little bit deeper dive into
something about your operation.
I believe today we're going
to talk about goat genetics.
Jordan: Yeah, so that's been quite the
journey as far as the goat genetics goes.
Um, when we first wanted to get goats,
we started out actually with bottle
kids that we bought in, and that was a
really big learning curve because a lot
of the bottle kids that we bought in,
the vet had told us that they probably
didn't have as an adequate amount of
colostrum that they should have gotten.
And we lost probably half of our
goats that we started with there.
Goats have been a real challenge.
And that's why I really wanted to hit
hard on the goat genetics, because
it's definitely a challenge if you
don't start out in the right spot.
And then we decided to get our own
herd and all, well, moms would raise
kids a lot better than we could.
So we figured we'd go by, uh.
regular goat herd.
But the problem with that was we got
a herd that was more conventionally
raised and they were raised
in a feed yard kind of a deal.
So they got their grain and their
hay and their bed and breakfast
and all that kind of stuff.
So then when we tried to do it
more regeneratively on our farm,
they did not thrive one bit.
And we
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: we started with the goats in 2020.
And, uh, of that main herd of 80
nannies that we bought, I would say
we probably have about five left.
It's unbelievable how, how devastating
and bad they called themselves out.
Um, and then after realizing that they
weren't going to fit the bill, we ended
up getting the Spanish breed and the
Spanish breed that we got, they were
way more of a hands off operation.
And they ran lots and lots of goats and,
you know, when you have a bigger herd
of goats, you're not just doing your
backyard genetics where you can, you
know, treat and pamper and, you know,
give them the bed and breakfast, you
know, they were real true hardy genetics.
And when we put them into our environment,
the mothering ability was awesome and they
just did an excellent job of grazing and
browsing and they're thriving well for us.
We're, we're sold on them guys,
Cal: I, I hate to admit it, but I
have stories of wrecks with sheep
and goats that, that go back to the
same premise you're talking about.
Those, those animals you get.
Um, it's got to have the right genetics,
and, and one way to get that is
find a farm that's doing what you're
doing, or similar enough that what
you're wanting to do, um, I brought
in some, my first goats were out of
some show stock, and that didn't work
out very good, and um, and sheep, I
had a similar experience with them.
Uh, we purchased a flock
that a guy had put together.
I learned after the fact.
I, I was too dumb in the beginning
to, to realize that, but it took us
a while to, we called them really
hard to get them to where we are now.
Um, but yeah, starting out with
those right genetics can really
Jordan: definitely.
Yep.
And if you have to pay a few more dollars,
it's honestly probably worth it because
your heart will feel a whole lot better.
And then
Cal: Oh,
Jordan: you have live goats
instead of more dead goats.
So nature calls pretty hard.
If you don't have a heart
for any of that stuff.
It's the, the good ones
survive and the bad ones don't.
And honestly, you know, with all
of our enterprises and stuff, we
want to be as more of a hands off
operation as we possibly could be.
We really don't even have much for
handling facilities or anything.
We just,
we just, you know, they're going
to be goats and they're going
to make it in our environment or
they're going to be culled out.
So.
We, we don't have time
for pampering around.
We want to have good, profitable
genetics that can do the job that
the good Lord intended them to do.
Cal: And, and that's an
important point there.
Um, you know, with
those first goats I got.
I was getting up in the middle of the
night to make sure they kidded all right,
because I had too many kids that didn't
get up and nurse, so I was out there,
and then I went with Kikos, and I ran
Kikos for a long time, and Kikos did
wonderful for me, and then I sold them.
Just because I didn't have
the right forage for goats,
they had grazed themselves or
browsed themselves out of a job.
And then I recently purchased some
Spanish does because the lease
properties I have have woods on them
and, and they can really help me there.
But, um, those first goats, um, man,
I, I told my wife, I can't, I can't
spend all night up making sure this,
I need something that works for me.
I'm a lazy farmer, or if you're good
with PR, I'm an efficient farmer.
I go out there.
The babies should be out there.
The mamas should be
Jordan: you betcha you hit that
nail on the head right there.
That is the way to have it.
Nobody wants to spend
sleepless nights out there.
You want to wake up and go out
and see your goats in the pasture
with mom and couple of twins on
her, nursing and sucking away.
And she's doing an excellent
job taking care of them.
That's the way they're supposed to be.
That's the way nature intended it to be.
Cal: Right.
And I know I'd asked you
before about direct marketing.
Are you finding direct
marketing goats works well
Jordan: So we haven't really
hit hard on that part of it yet.
We've been focusing
more on the other stuff.
There is definitely a great
opportunity to do more of that.
We have done a little bit of it, but
kind of letting it just go on its own.
And if we have people reach out to
us, we'll supply them with goat.
Um, but there's other enterprises
within the goats that we also do.
We do the grazing on other
people's land for invasive brush
and all that kind of stuff.
So we've got that part of it.
Cal: Oh, okay.
Jordan: then there's other people
that do that kind of work that don't
have the right kind of goats or
don't have enough goats to do it.
So we actually lease our goats out
to some of them people as well.
So they'll pay us a little small fee for
using our goats during the summer months
to go and supplement their business.
And it works out for
both parties really nice.
So yeah, it's kind of cool.
You get four enterprises in one
enterprise, if that makes any sense.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
So, so just to, to go back over that.
So, for one, some of these individuals
that's grazing areas and they need
more goats, they'll lease goats
from you to go out to do that.
And then, you're doing some of that
Jordan: Yep.
Yep.
Not too much though, because our
time is limited and my time is needed
in other areas, so we kind of let
that go out to the other people that
are doing it for their sole living.
Like, there's one guy that completely
quit his job to go graze goats on brush.
So, pretty, pretty
Cal: Oh, yes.
Yeah, that's very interesting.
And that's a creative way.
That's a lower cost way for
him to get started with it.
So he doesn't have to go
out and buy all the goats.
It's a creative way for you to get
a little bit more income from your
goats to lease them out like that.
So, so very nice out of the box
Jordan: for sure.
Yeah.
And it's pretty neat when people can
pay you to put your goats on their land.
You know, what other enterprises
can you do that with?
Cal: Right.
Yes.
Yeah, exactly.
I agree.
Well, Jordan, it is time for
our famous four questions.
Same four questions we
ask of all of our guests.
Our first question, what is your favorite
grazing grass related book or resource?
Jordan: Oh man, there's
been a lot of them.
I guess, I guess as far as like the
soil health goals goes and stuff like
that, there's, well, Dirt to Soil, and
then there's the book by Nicole Masters
for the Love of Soil, um, And then
just going to local grazing events.
So in my area, we have SFA,
Sustainable Farmers Association, um,
or LSP, Land Stewardship Project.
They do a lot of great stuff
with soil health and promoting
grazing and stuff like that.
And it's pretty neat to see.
So them are my main main resources
and just having a good community of
people that are trying to do the same
things that you're doing, you know,
communicating with them back and forth.
Um, and then we have that
kind of a network now with
our Mindful Farmers Group too.
Cal: Oh, yeah.
Very good.
Very good.
Excellent resources there.
One thing I want to highlight
there, you talked about your, your
regional or local, um, meetups.
I know for, for me, living in
Oklahoma, I didn't even know
the Oklahoma grazing land.
Um, I think it's coalition, but
they have some meetings around and
I'm like, where have they been?
I didn't even know it was out here till,
um, I don't know, a year and a half ago.
So, so look around, uh, talk to
two people who's doing this and you
can get, uh, knowledge about some
of those local groups, which can
Jordan: you bet
Cal: to you.
Yeah.
Our second question, what is your
favorite tool to use on the farm?
Jordan: my pliers . If I
If I don't have my pliers, I feel Naked
Cal: So, so what kind of pliers do you
prefer?
Jordan: one that I got on me right now,
even, it's a, it's a Erwin Vice Grip
pliers, so it's got the insulated handle.
So if you ever.
Let's say your fence, uh, remote
control isn't working, you can't shut
your fence off or anything, you can
grab the wire with this and you won't
get shocked because you got insulated
handles, or you're dealing with water
line that's not working right, you
need your pliers, or you need a hammer
for something, you got your pliers,
you know, it's everything to me.
You need a pry bar, you got
your pliers, you know, it's,
Cal: There you go.
Excellent choice there, yes.
Thirdly, Jordan, what would you
tell someone just getting started?
Jordan: hmm.
Find people that are doing it, reach out.
And go to events on the grazing
and just learn as much as you
possibly can, but then take action.
Don't sit still, just go and do it.
You know, build yourself the mindset
to go and start tackling it because
failure is the only way forward.
Don't be afraid of
failure, just embrace it.
Cal: Tons of points there,
but yeah, you're gonna fail.
Just get over it.
Go ahead and fail.
And learn from it.
And move on.
But the thing that really
jumped out at me, take action.
Because Uh, you can get into
analysis paralysis, and read and
read, and try and figure it out.
But until you just get started,
you're not going to be able to
make those final
Jordan: Exactly.
Yep.
You can read and read and read,
but until you take the, you know,
you can talk the talk, but walking
the walk is the next thing.
Just go and just do it.
Cal: Yes, exactly right, yeah.
And lastly, Jordan, where can
others find out more about
you?
Jordan: So we have a Facebook
page, Wholesome Family Farms, or my
individual page under Jordan Meyer.
Um, I actually have a YouTube channel
that's Wholesome Family Farms.
And then we have that new group with
my wife doing the mindset coaching and
that kind of a time management stuff.
And that's under mindfulfarmers.com.
So them are the places
that people can find us.
And then we have an
Cal: Oh, very good.
Jordan: too.
Cal: Okay, we will put those
links in our show notes.
Excellent.
Jordan, I've enjoyed the conversation
today.
Jordan: awesome.
Well, thanks a lot, Cal.
I sure had a lot of fun talking to you.