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Are you a new parent or parent of twins and multiples? Do you want to thrive, rather than just survive?
Welcome to our show - a modern, step, by step guide to get you best set up for thrivival!
No outdated, frumpy or stuffy content - we're for NEW parents, we are new parents and we have found the best of the best experts, research and stories. If you're time poor - look no further - community and support building, efficiency hacks and tools, pregnancy, symptom management, partner support, body, bust, skin, hair, postpartum recovery, PND, logistics and travel, parenting twin psychology, childcare need-to-knows, returning to work and more!
I'm Emily, a twin and twin mum. I have researched extensively the best tips, efficiency hacks, expert advice. Books, white papers, medical papers, online groups, articles - sifted through it all, for you. I hope this podcast helps you best navigate this exciting time.
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Podcast: Hey There Thivival
Gabby so great to have you on the podcast
today, talking to our audience of new
parents and people, that are expecting.
So why don't you start with a little
bit of an intro about yourself, who you
are, and, why you are on the put today.
hello?
I'm Gabby.
, my wife and I have two year
old twins or 24 months.
today, just going to
talk a little bit about.
How we got here.
And, , , parenting style, a little bit
about the journey of parenthood, the
pregnancy and everything around it.
Wonderful.
So I guess that tells our listeners.
, what we'll cover today, I think you'll
have some really good insights just around
how you've got those with your partner.
, and also obviously having twins and
just general tips for the audience.
So looking forward
to, , getting into this.
let's start with going back prior,
if you can remember to having
twins, what was your expectation?
, of parenthood and what that would be like.
, what did you imagine it to be?
, what do we notice?
We really didn't imagine twins at all.
It was never on our radar.
It wasn't nothing that we expected.
I imagined having a single child,
probably having three eventually,
because I'm one of three.
, and.
Probably not as crazy as it has been.
, I expected it to be.
a little bit crazy, but it's been a lot.
In the best way possible.
, . ,. So let's say then, conversely,
fast-forward you've now got two
and four months old children.
, how did your perception
of, , pre-children line up with
your actually having children?
, , Great question.
I think I thought that by now it
would be a little bit more chill.
I didn't know that toddlerhood
would be so intense.
I thought we'd probably have to
buy now, but not at the same time.
It'd be a little bit more staggered.
, but I think most of it does line up, being
one of three being the oldest sibling.
, I'm used to the chaos around me, so it's
not like it that's super new anyway.
, it's been really wonderful.
Actually.
It's been a really fun
learning, steep learning curve.
Great journey.
And the lack of control
is something that isn't.
I have a surprise to me.
And I think it's changed me a lot as
well in ways that I didn't anticipate.
I didn't really think
about that side of things.
Didn't think about the effect on myself.
I just thought.
You just, are you with children and your
life is your life the same just with
children there, but it's not obviously.
So it's, , yeah, a lot
has changed in ways.
I didn't really anticipate, let's
start with one of the fun parts.
. How did you find out you were having twins
and what was your reactions at the time?
, well, , My wife and I have
been going through IVF.
, we did a couple of rounds cause
we wanted to have at least two
kids, we did some quick maths.
We were like, all right, we want at least
four embryos in the freezer ready to go.
Cause we only have about
40% chance of live birth.
These are the stats that they tell
you, you get really obsessive about
all the stats, even though now I
can't really remember any of it.
, and we put in the first embryo and.
We went in for our seven week scan.
I was like maybe pregnant, maybe not.
I don't know.
I don't want to get too excited.
Who knows?
You know, that that early
stage is very touch and go.
I still remember the smuggler
file scanning the baby being
like, okay, take a deep breath.
Here's your baby's heartbeat.
, take another breath because every
here is your other babies hopping.
We're like what?
We didn't anticipate it at all.
I remember having a really out of
body experience, just like watching.
Anyway, I've heard of this happening,
but I didn't think it would happen to us.
So it was really exciting.
It was really, really cool.
, my wife is a doctor.
She didn't use the test.
So her reaction was
quite different to mine.
Hers was pure fear.
I called
high risk pregnancy.
She's you know, assesses it.
If this is all these sort of situation.
Absolutely.
Yeah.
she was like, oh, this could be
bad, but we'll see how we go.
I was like, whoa, twins.
How cute, how sweet.
It's going to be hard.
It's gonna be fun.
And how did your family
react when you told them.
Everybody was really excited.
Yeah.
as soon as we left the clinic, we
FaceTime to everybody and told them.
everyone was so excited.
Everyone had the same reaction,
oh my gosh, I can't believe it.
Twins.
It's crazy.
We automatically started looking up.
, Between parenting classes and things like
that because you want it to be prepared.
Yeah.
Yeah.
We want it to be prepared.
Which is how we met.
Not twin parenting.
And we stay NATO accidentally.
Mm.
Yeah.
I was.
I mean, we won't go too much new, but I
was, I was quite unwell, so I didn't do.
It's everything was last
minute or accidental.
Yeah.
So I love that you will.
You actually had the brain thought.
I don't remember who
did it, but I'm smart.
I don't think it would have been me.
I'm pretty sure it would have been Kate.
Someone's going to have.
Take the credit for that one.
let's go then into your pregnancy.
you found that having twins Love
to hear about your pregnancy
journey, how that was, symptoms.
And how that played across
the three trimesters
So our audience can see an example
of one type of twin pregnancy,
because they all are quite different.
As I now know.
Having a lot of friends.
with twins I'd love to hear,
about your story Well, mine
was not too bad, to be honest.
The pregnancy on my end was okay.
my first symptom before we had the
scan was I was really craving meat.
Which I don't really eat a lot of meat.
generally I'm not a huge meat eater,
I remember being at Christmas.
Just after the embryo transfer
was only like three weeks later.
And eating this piece of lamb.
And I was like, oh my
God, this is delicious.
I want to eat more.
And then I was like, could I be pregnant?
No, this is weird.
So I talked it away, but then
after that, I started to get the
nausea, Luckily I didn't have any
hyperemesis or anything like that.
Just just low, key, uncomfortable
nausea eating crackers for
three months, basically.
My main source of.
Main source of calories.
which is so wild because you need
so much nutrition in that time
and you just can't eat it just.
so that was the biggest.
Downside, but around after that,
that settled and I was fine.
I just got really bad heartburn.
Classic so much pressure
on your intestines.
So it was really uncomfortable.
I remember at about 20 weeks,
my only other symptom was.
Getting this really bad
pain in my lower abdomen.
And I remember thinking
do I have appendicitis?
what's going on?
I was a bit stressed about that.
but it ended up just
being run ligament pain.
Which came on really suddenly.
But if I just lay down
and rested, it went away.
once I knew what it was,
it didn't bring me stress.
It was just annoying.
Go much about it.
it might be helpful to just say to the
audience what exactly round ligament pain
is for those who have never heard of it.
Yeah.
my understanding is just that everything's
sort of stretching to accommodate.
you're growing baby or babies.
and so that includes your ligaments are
stretching and sometimes that can cause
pain just from that Southern stretch.
And that's what it wasn't.
So that's why I'm lying down,
really helped with that.
it, took off some of the pressure.
And it helped relieve that pain.
it just came and went.
And after a little while,
it didn't come back anymore.
Do you like a few weeks, And
what about the third trimester?
Any symptoms apart from
round ligament pain?
No, mostly heartburn.
Just really about hopping.
I was eating those.
Chalk tablets Like water it.
Disgusting.
but.
Yeah.
Yeah, I could it, yeah,
definitely better than a hot van.
I couldn't eat that much
because of just that physical,
like the pressure in inside.
But, I did start having
complications in the third trimester.
But it wasn't.
Physically on me, it
wasn't painful or anything.
It was, one of the babies, Luca.
He wasn't receiving enough
blood flow from the uterus.
So he had something called, SIU.
So selective intrauterine growth
restriction, which just means that
he wasn't getting much blood flow.
and he was a lot smaller than
his identical twin Frankie.
And as the pregnancy progressed, we
just had a lot of close monitoring
to make sure that he was okay.
Because they want it to progress
the pregnancy as far as possible
before, getting them out.
Cause, being promoted shows.
It has a lot of risk factors.
But so it does not have
enough blood player.
So it was a lot of weighing up the
risks towards the end of pregnancy.
Some are from about 30 weeks, I was
on a two scan a week close monitoring.
They're quiet.
detailing is I think, so you
are in the public system is.
I was in private.
But my obstetrician didn't deliver
in the public system, which was
really complicated in the end.
They weren't going to deliver, such
a complicated pregnancy in a private
hospital because they don't have a NICU.
They don't have the facilitate.
So it is.
Exactly the sentence of public, which
at the time was so stressful because
there the one that I have NICU beds.
And they were talking about maybe
sending the twin somewhere else
and sending me somewhere else.
So maybe separating the twins and
we'll all be in different hospitals.
It was really, it was
really, really stressful.
our care ended up getting switched over to
the women's hospital in Randwick, which.
It all really amazing.
and then we'll keeping a very
close eye on the pregnancy but
every week from 30 weeks it was Are
we going to have the baby today?
Is it going, can we wait until two days?
Is it going to be next week?
Can we make it to 31 weeks?
Can we make it 32 weeks?
When we made it to 34 weeks,
it was really amazing.
then.
we had a Syrian plant and then it got
canceled because of Nikki blood pressure.
and it was meant to be on a Friday and
they were like, okay, let's just scan you
and make sure you're okay for the weekend.
And they scan me and they realize
that, look, I didn't have any amniotic
fluid, which was an emergency.
They were like, okay, he
needs to come out today.
then there was the last
minute scramble for beds.
So it was really stressful.
we ended up delivering at RPA.
which was actually amazing because
it was really close to home.
TOSA hospitals.
So you had a private obstetrician.
And you went to Royal
rennet for your care.
And then you moved to RPA.
Yeah.
So we were going to have the
babies, um, Um, bro Renwick.
So there was a period of time
where they were like, okay,
let's have a look at the NICU.
We can do a two hour.
So you know, what to expect and
everything, they were really great.
then we got moved in the end.
we had the scan and the like, you
need to go to the hospital right now.
We'll call around, see
where there's available.
and LIGO was only 1.3
when he was born killers.
He wasn't thinking.
Twins, if they're premature, they
can definitely be around one.
but generally if they hit 37 weeks, which
is what they consider full term for twins.
So 7 38.
they can be closer to two or three.
In size as well.
And it's quite small.
Tiny.
Yeah.
So what I'd love to go through a
bit more again for this audience,
especially those expecting twins is
just to recap a couple of things.
So let's start with, the
top of twins you've got.
So you said identical.
So do you want to explain,
between the cords and the sax.
Oh, thanks.
I think.
that's something for the
audience to consider as well.
All twins are different and
there's different types.
Whether they share a
house or a food supplier.
so do you wanna start with that?
Yeah.
, yeah, so, the boys were MCDA one of
the chorionic, which means one placenta
and Dianetics, which means true sucks.
So they had separate sucks,
but they only had one placenta
between the two of them, which.
the more that they share, the more
complications can potentially arise.
they had an uneven split of the placenta.
So because code was marginal.
So it was right on the edge, which
meant he didn't have much blood supply.
Frank, his cord was really
central was really nice.
Lots of juices, blood
supply to really thick cord.
We actually had to look
at it when the whole born.
Cause I was so curious.
Aye.
Aye.
Aye.
I'm a researcher.
So I do research.
I was like, I was not looking.
So I was like, I want to see the post.
Can I see it.
which I know maybe for
some people it's weird.
The difference was really crazy.
the section where Luke his cord was
insert in the placenta was so pale
and the cord was Sophie and it was
like a thin piece of spaghetti or his
Frankie's was like so thick and the
area where his, like the area of the
placenta, where the quarter was inserted
and had so much blood flow, you could
really see the difference in color.
it's very interesting.
Really interesting.
And that's the reason why Luca
started having complications.
Yeah, it was always a tiny
bit smaller So are you.
SIU gr and twins is
something that can happen.
At any point in the pregnancy?
And if it happens too early,
sometimes, the babies don't make it.
we'll really lucky that it
was picked up at 30 weeks.
And not earlier, it was something
that, didn't really arise as
a complication until later on.
So they always look out for something
called growth discordance, where one
is, I think it had to be over 25%.
Smaller than the other one.
I can't remember exactly, if there's a
certain, difference between identical
twins, then it means that they might
have growth discordance, which means that
something might be going wrong in the.
So you've got that down to an art though.
How lucky are you that they can.
Lucky versus people in that 19 hundreds.
18 hundreds.
we're so lucky that we live in.
So much privilege, not just in our
time, but also physically in an area
where we have access to healthcare
that has such a high caliber wet.
things go wrong.
It can be looked after.
And I just want to, relay
that to the audience.
We've obviously talked about a story
where there's quite a lot of stress
involved with, firstly having, a type
of twin that can be more susceptible.
just to recap that to the audience,
you've got, not identical twins who
are two different stacks and two
different, Two different, courts.
Okay.
So then Lee least, you know, susceptible
then you've got your identical twins
and it depends on whether they've
got separate SACS and separate
chords or they could have one second.
The same chord.
or variation of that the doctors in
Australia are really, well-versed
there's a lot of information
out there, which is fantastic.
So you will.
get a lot of support then we
also talked about the moving
of hostels hospitals rather.
this was a hot topic.
So we met through a multiples, a
parenting course through the hospital.
we got to see.
consistency in terms of
what others were doing.
And a lot of people did
get moved from hospitals.
I would say looking back on
that, not ideal, but something
that's good to be aware of.
And it comes down to, if there
are a lot of babies born, At your
hospital that you're planning to go
to, if there's not space, especially
with having 2, 3, 4 babies at once.
there's a chance you'll be moved,
but the good news is that you can
talk to your doctor about that and
just pre knowing that's an option.
the vast majority of hospitals are.
bloody good food can be better
at the ones in the north.
so that isn't, something which
happens and it's driven by demand.
and then you talked about your doctor,
you had private doctors, some people
had private, some people were in public.
We ended up, in the public system
the tip of, if you get a private
ops, Obstetrician asking the
question, can you practice in public?
if you are having twins
that likelihood is high.
another question for you.
So partners for the partners listening,
what do you think of the best ways that a
partner can help through that pregnancy?
I think just being
patient and being present.
maybe listening to a name.
It's just some little things.
but I remember when we were having
complications in the pregnancy,
at about 30 weeks, I, because
I couldn't really eat much.
I remember there was one point
where I was like, if I was able to
eat more rigor would get more blood
supply and then it would be better.
And Kate she should make me like
a smoothie or something like that.
just something little, little things like
that, where it was like someone was taking
care of you and being like, It's okay.
We've got this together.
Booking I Russia booked me
in for a couple of pregnancy
massages, which was really nice.
Yeah, it was really nice.
Just little things that show that
they, you're carrying doesn't have to
be something expensive or whatever.
It's a little gesture and listening and
being patient, I think, because it's for
most people, I think there are moments
where you have stress or anxiety even
about the birth or beyond whatever it is.
I think most people when they're
pregnant have some moments of stress.
So it's nice to have somebody
there that's listening.
it can be quite difficult to know what's
going on because it's not your body.
And if you are a first time parent, you
might have varying levels of knowledge,
So being there.
Helping you, the nutrition.
Definitely.
and the patients, I think, are you
saying that perhaps because of like
the energy levels or the brain fog?
Yeah.
Yeah, definitely.
Even just.
I don't know, just listening to
whatever your problem might be.
You're feeling stressed
out, just listening and
validating, just not being like.
Just relax.
Everything's going to be fine.
I have no waste.
I thought you don't.
Nobody wants to hear that when they're
feeling stressed, they want to hear.
Yes.
That's normal to feel that way.
Lots of hormones, maybe poor sleep, maybe.
being on well and suddenly
your body is in a new state.
For a first time parent, especially
if it's twins, because you've got
increased blood, it's more than 50%.
with, the two babies, a whole
lot of additional things.
and even with one baby,
again, they can be.
A multitude of factors, which
really change your physicality
and your mental state.
Okay.
let's talk about those first six weeks.
What were they like?
and what were your top
two favorite moments?
Okay.
I have to say my favorite part was
when we finally had this as Arion.
Like I said, we were having
that scan just to make sure
we're at here for the weekend.
And then it turned out we weren't.
So they were like, all right, we
need to get the babies out today.
So that was a little bit
stressful those last four weeks.
we had no idea what was going to happen.
It was.
Genuinely really stressful.
And.
Yeah, just pretty awful.
I've never been so.
Confused and scared before actually.
which is funny because
up until the 30 weeks.
But we'll just say Laddy, daddy day.
Everything's chill.
then finally, when we got rushed over,
we were waiting and waiting, waiting.
I was desperate together, man, I was
lying down on the couch sideways on
one side versus the other, because I
was like, maybe I'm getting more blood.
But like I was looking at these
really weird things that probably
had no impact that made me feel
like I had some sort of influence.
finally that day that we had.
This is Arion and they just came out
There were two babies crying.
I was Oh, it's such a moment of relief.
Did so well.
that was probably my favorite
moment, even though poor little Wiki.
Well, he came out in his
sack, which was amazing.
I've got it on video as well.
Like they
I'm like lying there on the
showing me what's happening.
I love this story.
Dr.
Friends that love that sort of thing.
So cool.
Interesting.
It comes down to your staff.
I was out of his sock and we're
all just like watching this tiny,
precious little sack with this
little baby bundled up inside.
Finally, they split it open
and it opens up and it's like,
so tiniest little ribs poking.
that tiny, skinny little
baby And they took them away.
They were assessed them.
They put them in the NICU, they
took all the things on your chest.
Will they take.
They took them straight away.
It was pretty high risk.
So, I was lying in recovery for
a little bit and the season was
really straightforward for me.
I was, you hear about all these things
and I'm so lucky that it was fine.
The Caesar itself was super
chill, just like done.
no pain didn't have any side effects
and because it was planned, I wasn't
in labor or anything like that.
and Kate, because she's a niece
that has she was going through
what is going to feel like.
And she's
the doctor.
Yeah, they talk, they spoke to
each other and it was really high.
Okay.
It was like talking me through everything.
She's like, no, this is going to
feel like this they're going to
do this and that you might feel a
little pain and it was so chill.
I was like, cool.
All right.
Nice.
That's what a wonderful ad it was.
You can just work it out.
That would be.
Actually so good.
I cannot stress enough how important
it is for your partner to be in this.
then finally with some away and
everything, and then, I was back in the
room and we were waiting to hear if we
could go see the babies and at about.
like 1230 or something like.
they came in and I couldn't walk.
Cause I still had like the leg
numbness, whatever you call.
I think.
I think you're not talk
for 24 hours or something.
I was in the bed and they wheeled
me down and we've got to see
the tiny babies and the little.
NICU beds and it was so magical.
it was just such a beautiful moment
of seeing them, their breathing cause.
like just such a rollercoaster.
Exactly.
It was so surreal when they pulled
the babies out of my stomach,
it felt like a magic trick.
They were just like, here's the baby?
Cause you've got the curtain.
And then the, he's another baby.
And he's like, It was like
someone was rummaging looking
for their keys and your abdomen.
No something's going on,
but you're also very know.
Oh, yeah.
I mean, they're paying
just weed sensations.
it was very surreal.
And seeing the babies I
cannot believe that we grew.
These it's crazy.
it was so beautiful and we got to touch
them straight away that night and they
weren't our chests and that's fine.
Yeah, they really encourage the kangaroo
holding and all that kind of stuff.
the.
It's skin to skin as much
as possible, obviously.
within reason if it's not possible, not
always possible for certain circumstances.
it was really, really nice.
all the nurses there, the
NICU nurses are so wonderful.
everyone speaks really calm and
soothing me and they're like,
You're doing a great childhood.
congratulations.
And it just feels there's
a good level of excitement.
Everybody's really excited
for you even though.
there's still a real focus on.
the good side and the first few weeks
We're really positive, even though
on the back of all that stress.
There was a lot of like gentleness.
A lot of encouragement, there were the.
The lactation consultants there who
really encourage you to breastfeed
if that's what you want to do.
and it was really wonderful.
I have really positive memories
of those first few weeks.
that's a really beautiful, point
to call out to people as well
as when you go to the NICU.
It is a really supportive place.
They do it day in, day out.
they are beautiful and the
community of other parents.
Yeah, it's quite important.
Did she have.
Another sort of the twin
parents from the course.
Yes, we had, well, not from the course.
I met a twin parent there who'd had
babies around the same time, And there
were around the same gestation as well.
we were learning how to do the
twin breastfeeding together.
Football.
Let's see if someone else has
got to in to say can relate.
Yeah.
While you're in.
Yeah, she had a similar thing where one
was a bit smaller than the other one.
And I remember we were waiting
for liquid hit two killers
before we could take him home.
which we ended up getting him home before
that actually, cause they put an NG tube.
Pull him so that we could bring him
home earlier, which was really great.
also it didn't feel great
having just one baby at home.
And the other twin was still in the NICU.
That puppet side.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Interesting.
I think it can be quite
a mix of situations.
You can have both NICU, one in NICU.
you could stay in hospital longer,
have one with you, one downstairs.
yeah, there's a multitude of
situations, but, wonderful.
When they get to come together.
So sweet.
So you've given.
a really great insight to what
it's like with those first weeks.
Another.
The question, which, I hear on the regular
when twin parents get pointed my way, what
do you think are the main tools that when
parents actually need, when they first
have a child, so people they've got their.
Parties or gifts.
Things getting bought them or
they're trying to purchase whatever
they need or get what they.
I told about.
what would you recommend?
for us, something that we used all the
time was a, one of these twin cushions.
The N or the flat top one.
The M the M I might have to
put that in the show notes, I
know that when you're talking.
I they're so good.
Flat.
Flat top one.
The flat top.
Oh, I use this one.
You can also use it as
a breastfeeding cushion.
Yeah.
has it been a back support for that?
Which is quite nice, it was really great.
We use it day in, day out
because I was pumping heaps.
they, they didn't, they were so tiny.
They didn't match that well, and
we're worried about Luca, cause
it wasn't getting that much.
We we've started bottle-feeding them.
And then they developed a preference.
The water feeding.
So it was breastfeeding and bottle
feeding and they became too much.
I ended up just pumping
and just bottle feeding.
so I was expressing milk.
All the time, which if you decide to
do that, I highly recommend using a,
either a hands-free pump, especially
you're doing for twins because
you're constantly pumping or you can.
there's some really good bras
that you can get that have a hole.
And I used to wear, it wasn't really a
hands-free pump because I would connect
it through this bra it was hands-free.
I would take the twins on walks
without touching the pump.
I'd have my pump connected
because I was a cow.
I was literally pumping every two hours.
it'd be out with a stroller
just connected and then pouring
milk out the hands-free pumps.
It.
Wasn't not a hands-free pump.
it was a Mandela one.
But because I had a really good broad.
That was connected.
It was, what was the point?
It was like one of those, I
think it was called a flexi.
It was like, it looked like
a mobile phone kind of thing.
It was like a long one.
So I could shove that in
my bra, but then the actual
suctioned things called that in.
Anyone that wants to hear about this one.
I think that they are upgraded now and
they actually have a hands-free one which
sits completely in the bra same brand.
It was still Modela, but it's
completely in the prostate.
you don't have to get promoted.
It allowed you to leave
the house and be pumping.
I wish I had decided that
they weren't going to watch.
I loved that.
That was something that I used all
the time I remember even if we would
flying to Melbourne visiting family.
I would have the pump connected
on the plane while I had
a baby sleeping on my lap.
And I'll be expressing milk in it.
That'd be like constantly.
Constant.
what time is it?
100 last express.
Okay.
How much longer I should have.
What should they sh sterilize it?
Well, just an app or anything
to record it, or I didn't.
No, I didn't remember.
I, yeah, I.
I could not think it was impressed.
It just occupied my brain.
Probably.
Too much.
Wow.
But without, I would forget, I would start
recording when I was like breastfeeding.
I remember trying to do the app thing
a couple of times, and then I would.
Later on that night I would go to her
oh, I've been breastfeeding for 16 hours.
It just kept recording.
And I was oh, this is not working for me.
I think my brain was.
I know some people use the app.
Some people don't like some
people use the app for everything.
Nappy change.
I think, I didn't think about the app.
I was easily.
well, I think we try to, and I just,
we didn't have the right to start with.
And then.
My partner just got whiteboard.
Oh, yeah.
We had a book at one point.
I couldn't have.
I couldn't do basic math, which is crazy.
No, it's not, no, that's not crazy.
That's normal.
I drove lucky, mad it's plus one hour.
Plus one out like God.
I didn't know, we were talking about.
okay, fabulous.
So the, the point of.
Quincy's twinsie twinsies.
One is the pillar that
we use all the time.
Cause you can problem up in there
because they are tiny babies.
They can't sit up So we prop them up in
these twinsie and if somebody was over.
My mom, Kate's mom, whoever
would be feeding them bottles.
You can't hold two babies at once.
It's a feed them bottles
with too much ease.
So you just show them in this twinsie
and then you feed them, like they, you a.
A little piglet babies.
When the photos are so cute.
And so many pictures of
people feeding them with.
Doing Z.
All the time.
It sounds like.
Exactly.
Exactly.
Okay.
That's really good.
Any other top tools.
To be honest, you don't need that much
for the first few weeks, because you're
just, all you're doing is changing.
The nappy is constantly,
So nappies.
Lots of, bottles.
we didn't have a little bench space,
so we had a microwave sterilizer.
it was a big circular thing
that you just shoved bottles in
and Chuck it in the microwave.
So you don't need to have something
that takes up a lot of bench space.
So that was really handy.
what else?
we have A nice couple of
things for Tommy time.
those little black and white contrast
cards that they can stare at.
but yeah, hopefully just, some sleep.
If you have people to
hopefully the twins to.
She has.
Yeah.
That's the most important thing.
I agree snacks.
Snacks.
big water bottle.
So you don't have to move
and probably a camel pack.
If you have.
Cause you're just pumping
and feeding love that.
Okay.
So you've given the audience a few
tips about, a two, which is hands-free.
So the twins.
Kilo.
And then hands-free.
breast pumps.
So you can go on the go.
And I think the fact that you can
use it traveling plus also, out
and about allows you to leave the
house more easily, really important.
plus, other people couldn't
can use it to feed them.
So love those wonderful tips.
let's go on.
did you get a lot of, quality support
and advice from other parents?
Oh, from other parents.
Not a huge amount from other parents.
because the boys were in the
hospital for a little bit.
I was really lucky.
even though obviously nobody
hopes to have their babies in
the hospital, there are so many.
Benefits to it.
on the plus side you get a lot of support.
So you get all the, I go.
I'm saying that the lactation consultants.
Our mind field of support
and help and knowledge.
And they're also really interesting
and they're all a little bit like fun.
I really liked them.
Hilarious.
that great energy about them, sir.
Yeah.
They're a little bit,
you know what I mean?
quickie.
Quirky.
That's the way that I wanted, which I
mean, you would be, cause he's talking
about boobs and nipples all day.
Yeah, exactly.
You'd get the funniest compliments.
Like you have great nipples.
and you're like, oh, I'm just.
It's doing your mum
needs to hear it as well.
Please just tell me
it's all going to work.
Exactly.
Yeah, it is.
Yeah.
For this other stuff, that's
going to be on natural.
There's nothing natural about
knowing how to breastfeed.
some babies.
Just know, straight away.
but it's not, it doesn't feel easy.
it depends on the situation
and everything is so different.
Everybody's in such a different situation.
I got a lot of support and, advice
from the nurses and the, yeah.
And the lactation consultants.
I think that's again,
something to look forward to.
We were told that, maximize
the nurses supporting.
Cause they teach you how to you.
How to put nappies on which, who.
It would be a science, but when you're
first doing it, you're like what.
Very terrible for boys.
How to point.
Oh, that's right.
Penis down.
Yep.
Leave it upwards.
Yeah.
You get shot also because
they pick up words.
So then if they're just going to get
sprayed on the stomach, nothing's
going to go into the German bond.
I do.
I like to spice.
you still have to do right.
He got shot twice and then never again.
Yeah, you learn very quickly.
I never use.
oh, what's up Nate?
Okay.
let's keep going.
So, postpartum, recovery.
So what were two activities for
your mind and body that worked
really well that you think that
the audience might benefit from?
Oh, I mean, sleep.
For me, it was really
important to go outside.
because Kate was working.
she had her.
Big exam, just a few weeks
after the boys have won.
she had to work a lot, poor thing
so some days I was just by myself.
In the first few weeks.
Postpartum.
for me, it was really important
to go outside because I remember
there were some really hard days
where you're just so exhausted.
You've slept Total three hours
completely broken sleep in the night.
Yeah.
and your exhausted and losing
the plot, the babies are crying.
You've done everything you can.
You don't know why they're crying.
They're just babies.
They cry.
That's normal.
It's how.
Big growth.
I don't know.
how they test your ability to parent.
She really likes.
Totally.
And so for me, I found that just being
outside, it didn't have to be a big trip.
Or anything like that, just
being outside makes such a huge
difference to my mental health.
So I just shoved them in
the pram, Chuck on my pump.
And just go for a walk to
the park and get a coffee.
I didn't care how I looked.
Don't worry about that.
Put a hat on.
I think it's the best thing.
I still use it to this day.
I've got twins.
Whatever.
People come up to you and tell
you it's such a nice thing.
So congratulations, your outsides things.
He left the house.
I took that in a positive way.
But you don't look at shit.
don't listen to that.
Don't think too much.
doing little things like, even
though the boys were quite small, I'm
going to Brian time at the library.
It was really nice.
I loved that because it was just if
it to leave is a hundred percent.
Yeah.
I remember feeling so proud
of myself to the first one.
I got them in the car.
So your 10 minute drive.
Yeah, but also tiny and being
like, oh my God, I got them.
Because it's all solo that first time.
Yeah.
Yeah.
That was a big.
Mastering for you.
Yeah.
We're like a big master and just
driving 10 minutes down the road so
that I could go take them to Ram time.
Unpack your bag.
Early enough one time, then
they might, need to change.
And then the other one
might need a change.
there's a huge amount of factors.
Logistics so much, get them.
I'm into the car and then you've
got to somehow get the other
one has been lifted the house.
maybe you haven't eaten just Chuck, a
bar, like a muesli bar or something.
I remember having lots
of snacks in every pack.
Cause you're starving as one of a B.
That's a great.
I've been as hungry as I have
breastfeeding in my entire life.
I remember getting like such a level
of hunger that I was actually stressed
out, would to go to a restaurant and
okay, I need to order the schnitzel.
But then I also need to order a burger.
I need to eat it right now because I
know in my heart that I'm going to die.
If I don't eat.
It's very important.
You don't want to be hungry.
Let's have a snack ready to go.
I remember having lots of cookies.
My mom would make me,
breastfeeding cookies.
We'd like arts and it was so sweet.
And so when I'd get up in the
night to breastfeed, I would
have a couple of cookies.
you sobbing all the time and you'd
just be really soothing and you
can just Chuck them in any bag.
It's just, they're
always there ready to go.
So that's a great tip.
I had collagen bars.
He's like delicious.
Collagen bars.
someone had said that that was good
when you're making two children
cause I was strict with anybody.
And now.
Delicious.
Okay.
That's some great tips.
So leave the house, have lots of snacks.
It doesn't have to be like
a crazy leave the house.
Mirmont it just.
Yeah, just across the road to the park.
Yeah.
So you can just run back home.
Just have your bag prepacked?
And my observation upon seeing a lot
of the other twin parents, we had
seven, then we got something like
13 or 15 sets of twin parents now.
Chat.
And I'm leaving the house early.
Is really challenging.
And some people didn't leave for a long
time or never left without their partner.
If they had a partner.
And, if you can, it is such a win building
a routine early everyone's situation is
different, but I would certainly say that.
Some days, it was so hard to do so hard.
Once I was out there, it was
worth its weight in gold.
Sounds like.
I agree.
I think just getting a bit of sunshine.
Even just finding a nice spot in the
house, like in a balcony, if you have
one or whatever, whatever it is, having
a routine going to the coffee shop,
like anything, it doesn't have to be.
Fancy.
make yourself a coffee at home.
if it's too much of a stretch to go buy
a coffee, I don't know whatever it is.
It's something that makes you feel good.
Yeah.
So What do you think?
You've seen as the biggest change from.
Not having twins to having twins now.
What do you think of the
biggest changes for you?
And that could be, Really
positive or kind of growth.
based changes.
I'm definitely more empathetic
towards people towards.
Parents.
I see.
When I see somebody driving like a maniac.
I'm like they probably just have
a screaming child in the car.
I'm not like, what is this idiot doing?
I think having empathy, I find that
I cry all the time now and I never
really cried that much before.
It's really weird.
I will watch something.
It can be beautiful.
It can be sad.
a Disney movie.
And I just saw it the whole time.
I get teary when I say sweet children.
I don't know, I think it's just it's I
don't know if it's a biological thing
that just happens in your body so that
you can have this level of empathy to
raise a screaming little demon angel
baby, or if it's Or if it's just as a
product of being tired, I'm not sure,
but I think it's probably a bit of both.
I think that I feel more
emotions, much more intensely.
what in a bad way.
it's a really interesting shift.
I also found that I'm a bit
more slow paced now, a bit more.
Chilled out.
so before I would like cram pack every
single weekend with a million activities,
I would be going to the gym every day.
I'd be doing my really long hours at work.
So I'd be in the love.
And then if you're doing I'd be
part of the social committee I
could be doing all these things.
And now I'm like, whoa.
Too many things.
I just chill it out and
it's, I'm finding that.
Just going to the park for the afternoon,
with the kids and looking at what they're
looking at, they're watching ads and I'm
just like watching the ants with them.
I find that's what I want to do.
It's really interesting how I feel like
I've slowed down a lot in that way.
I don't want to rush them.
it's very enjoyable to watch
them take in the world and.
Get their own perspective on stuff.
I dunno.
It's really, it's fun.
It's really fun.
I feel like I'm enjoying the
now more being more present,
not in an intentional way.
Not I'm trying to be mindful,
but that's what it feels like.
love that.
love feels simplified.
You've got more empathy towards a
specialty like parents with children.
and then you just Maybe
just gliding a bit more.
Yeah.
Yeah, Okay.
last question.
how are you boys doing at the moment?
Great.
They're very enjoying life.
They're just So.
active security about everything.
Best friends, worst enemies of
each other at the same time.
It's very sweet.
The holding hands all the time.
Now.
It's really cute.
Oh.
We love holding hands and hugging
sometimes a little bit too tight.
Yeah.
Sometimes a little love kids.
Yeah.
Oh, that's beautiful.
Well, It's been so nice to hear more
about your story and go through this.
We obviously know each other, but
I haven't necessarily heard all
the ins and outs your stories.
So it's so nice to hear that.
I think, there'll be a lot of
really good points for people who
are expecting or I've got twins.
maybe they're at the same
level as us, or further along.
They're just interested to hear
other stories, but I think this
is really good and nice to hear,
also from the perspective of the
IVF and having the twins that are
identical and what that might be like.
I hope that you've enjoyed chatting today.
Thank you so much for coming on the pod.
And, uh, I'll, uh, only a couple of
the points we went through as well.
So the references you mentioned in the
bottom, but thank you so much, Gavin.
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Thank you.