More Than You Think!

In this episode of "More Than You Think!" we discuss how the economy determines whether a new Christmas song will stand the test of time.

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Sources:

1. Janata, Petr. “Music-Evoked Autobiographical Memories.” (2007).

2. Janata, Petr. “The Neural Architecture of Music-Evoked Autobiographical Memory.” Cerebral Cortex (2009).


3. Madison, Guy et al. “Repeated Listening Increases the Liking for Music Regardless of Complexity.” (2017).

4. Library of Congress. “All I Want for Christmas Is You Added to the National Recording Registry.” (2023).

5. Billboard. “Greatest of All Time Holiday 100 Songs.”

6. Billboard / Chart Data on Kelly Clarkson — Underneath the Tree annual chart performance and rise as a modern holiday standard.

7. Billboard / Chart Data on Ariana Grande — Santa Tell Me chart performance showing its growth as a recurring seasonal hit.
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Creators and Guests

Host
Valerie Gorham
WKNC Podcast Content Creator

What is More Than You Think!?

“More Than You Think!" is a podcast that explores the deeper layers of pop culture, uncovering how today’s trends connect with the political, economic, and social climate shaping our world. Each episode dives into the ways music, media, and cultural moments reflect — and influence — the society we live in. "More Than You Think!" is a podcast produced by WKNC 88.1 FM HD-1/HD-2 at NC State University.

00:03
Valerie Gorham
Hello, everyone, and welcome back to another episode of more than you think. Christmas edition or just Holiday Edition. It is December and it is the holiday season. The holiday season. The whoopty. Do a dickory duck and don't forget to hang up your sock, bro, if you have one. By the time this is out, finals are probably going to be over. But I hope everyone had a good final exam season here at NC State and just all over the world because this is. It's so annoying that you have to go through all of this just to get to the break, to the Christmas break. Like, bro. Okay. Anyways, I cannot wait to be done with my finals. I am waiting until after I am done to watch the Jonathan Bailey and David Corenswet actors on actors from Variety on YouTube. That will be my reward.

00:55
Valerie Gorham
It's like a reward if you're new here. Hello, I am Valerie. This podcast, more than you think, is a podcast about how political, economic and social events interact with pop culture. And I'm really annoyed at the way that I say the word pop culture, because it sounds like I'm saying pap, like pap smear. I've heard those are scary. Anyways, today's episode is about Christmas music. Which if you are from Charlotte, like me, you know, K104. Yes. And there's probably, they probably have like 24, seven Christmas music stations all over the country that are going strong right now that everyone's got their radio turned to that in their cars. But today we are going to talk about how the political and economic climate at certain points in history have helped certain Christmas songs to become like all time classics.

01:55
Valerie Gorham
You may have noticed that most of the classics on the radio are from like the 50s. And there's a reason for that. There are only a select few of like modern Christmas songs that have really become popular. And I have three listed here, obviously. Number one, Mariah Carey, All I Want for Christmas is yous is like, it's the Christmas song of all time, right? Like every single year she defrosts, right? And then her song gets to number one on every single chart every December without fail. And I think that this is probably going to be happening for generations to come. Not only does she have a great voice, but the song is just awesome. It's super happy. It's such a banger. And, you know, it really embodies the Christmas spirit. It's just a fun, happy song.

02:45
Valerie Gorham
And it's fun to sing, to try to sing, even when you know it's Mariah Carey. So it's a little bit difficult to sing, but it's still fun to try. Another song that obviously everybody loves and knows that is more modern is Underneath the Tree by Kelly Clarkson. Another banger, another woman with a voice that was literally made by God. Like, Kelly Clarkson has the voice of angel. Right? And third, another one that I have been seeing is slowly making its way to, like, a Christmas classic song is actually Santa Tell Me by Ariana Grande, which I don't really like it that much, but it's starting to grow on me. Like, I've been hearing it more every single year ever since it came out.

03:25
Valerie Gorham
And it's starting to become, to me, at least, like one of those songs you expect to hear around Christmas, that when you hear it, like, you feel kind of Christmassy, you know, because there are certain Christmas songs that you hear that you're like, girl, what is this? Like? Personally, for me, that's. That's. Oh, my God, I hate this song so much. The Christmas shoes song. Does anyone else hate that song? That song sucks. Ew. I hate it. I hate it so much. If it comes on Spotify, Skip. If I hear it on the radio, I'm turning it off. I'm not even changing the station. Like, I'm just turning it off for, like, three minutes, and I'll turn it on later. Like, I hate it. But, yeah, that's just one example of, like, songs that are, like, not really Christmasy.

04:14
Valerie Gorham
But I want to talk about the three good ones that I mentioned. So All I Want for Christmas is you, Underneath the Tree, and Santa. Tell me, what do these songs have in common that have made them so special, and why are they becoming Christmas classics? Well, All I Want for Christmas is you is already a Christmas classic. But let's dive into the history of All I Want for Christmas is yous by Mariah Carey. What was going on when that song came out? Well, that song came out in 1994. Bill Clinton was president. The economy was strong. There was very low unemployment, the economy was booming. And I have sources for this that I will link in the description of the podcast. Well, yes, I did do actual research, and I have real sources, and I'm not making this up.

05:04
Valerie Gorham
But yes, you can check my sources in the description. In 1994, Bill Clinton was president and the economy was strong. And so people were able to spend money and time on Christmas, and everyone was happy. The morale of the country was good. And at the same time, this wonderful song by Mariah Carey comes out, and everyone's listening to it, like, well, Yes, I like this. Underneath the Tree by Kelly Clarkson came out in 2013 when Obama was president. And at the time, were still recovering Here from the 2008 housing crisis Recession thingy, which I kind of don't remember because I was four. Girl, I don't know. But the economy was in recovery, but it was looking up. Things were looking up, and there was, like, a sense of hope.

05:50
Valerie Gorham
Unemployment was decreasing, and things were getting more stable economically, and people were making more money, you know, and that was less stressful for everyone. People were slightly happier than they were before, and there was an overall sort of sense of hope that, like, things could get back on track. Same with Ariana Grande when she released Santa Tell Me. It was just a year later, and at that time, things were way better. They had just gotten way better. Obama had just gotten reelected, and unemployment was very low. It was the lowest it had been since the recession. And again, just a sense of hope in the air. And everybody was having a good time. And obviously people say, money can't buy you happiness, but if you don't have money, girl, you're gonna be stressed out, and that's not happy. So money doesn't buy you happiness?

06:43
Valerie Gorham
No, but if you don't have money, then you're probably gonna be really stressed out, and that's the opposite of happiness. So money doesn't even have to buy happiness. It just comes with it. Listen, people are like, money doesn't buy you happiness. Okay, shut up. I still want money. I still want money because then I can buy things that will make me happy. Oh, but things can't make you happy. Okay, but not having food and a house will probably make me sad. Like, girl, shut up. Have you seen Barbie? Life in the Dream House? Barbie is always having a good time. She's always happy. You know why? Because she has everything she needs. Can people actually stop pretending like money isn't important? It really is. It really is. And that's not a materialist thing to say. That is not a materialist thing to say. Hello.

07:38
Valerie Gorham
Okay, moving on. So what do these three songs have in common? They all came out during times of economic growth, and economic growth leads to overall sense of hope and a boost in the country's morale and happiness in the brains of everyone. And what does that mean? That means that people are going to associate the songs that they hear with the emotions that they're feeling, which is joy. Joy to the world. And we'll get to that song later also. So, yeah, if your country is failing and you are poor, and you don't have food. You might not like the music that's coming out at the same time because it might be like, oh, yeah, this song reminds me of being broke. But here's the big picture.

08:22
Valerie Gorham
Economists like to divide the year up into four quarters because they're a little weird economists, and I guess they just like to organize things. But quarter four is October, November, December. And this is the quarter with the most spending of the entire year. You can probably guess it's because of the holidays. Christmas, Thanksgiving, which leads to Black Friday, Hanukkah, New Year's, Halloween. Just everything. Everything combined. It just leads to, like, everyone's at the store trying to look for presents, trying to look for decorations, food, everything. And to those with more money, you know, they can spend more time at home with their families. They don't have to work on the holidays. They don't work around the holidays. They can take some days off and go shopping. And they're not stressing about, like, oh, no, I don't have enough money.

09:13
Valerie Gorham
I don't have enough time to buy all the presents I need for everyone. And I don't have enough money to buy, like, a nice family meal that I can cook on the holidays. Like, you know, that's really stressful. The holidays can be really stressful. And to those of you out there struggling for Christmas, shout out to all of you, Queens, kings, monarchs, all of you, because you're. You're doing your best and you deserve better. But when the overall economy of the country is doing well, then less people have that problem. There's going to be more leisure time and more time to spend driving around in your car, listening to the radio, listening to the new Christmas music, watching the new Christmas movies, where all the new Christmas music is.

09:56
Valerie Gorham
And you're going to enjoy your time, and you're going to associate all that music with joy and happiness. And every time you hear it, you're going to like it. So the next. Next time you hear it, you're gonna be happy, and then you're not gonna not want to hear it anymore. And then that music becomes more popular with everyone. Now, let me just say this real quick. The three songs that I mentioned were all released before 2016, which, as you may or may not have realized, is kind of the year that Trump got elected. Oh, that's not. And I'm not. I would never say that the morale of the country has gone down since Trump was elected, because that's not true. It actually went down when he started running for president in 2015. Because, like, name me one good Christmas song after 2015.

10:51
Valerie Gorham
Name me one song that you have heard played on the radio multiple times after 2015. And do not say snowman by SIA. Don't say it, because that song is sad and it's not going to. It's not going to be a classic. Mark my words. It's. It's not good. It's not. It's not going to happen. It is a good song, but it's. It's just depressing. It is kind of depressing. Here's the thing. Unfortunately, after Donald Trump started running for president, there was just so much division, political division, and not just in the country, but, like, within families. Like, families started turning on each other, and that caused problems during the holidays. You guys know the hashtag fallbrawl thing that happened this year that everyone was like, saying for Thanksgiving, go live. Go on TikTok live.

11:34
Valerie Gorham
If your family starts arguing, I want to watch and use the hashtag fall brawl to document. To document your family's political arguments. And everyone was like, ask your grandpa, ask your Republican uncle what they thought about the Charlie Kirk assassination. And even if you're a liberal, if you have liberal family, pretend to be conservative so that you can just all fight each other. Like it was. It was kind of funny. That's kind of funny. And also, I just want to say this real quick. I see a lot of people on TikTok and Twitter talking about how 2016 was like the last good year, which was the year that Donald Trump took office, but obviously still like, he. He had just started. So I don't really know.

12:21
Valerie Gorham
For me personally, I feel like summer 2016 was kind of a bad summer for me because that was when I tried. Started trying to do sports. And that was kind of stressful for me, but I think everyone else was having a good time. So good for you. But was that Zootopia? No, but. Oh, my gosh, guys, Zootopia 2 girl. We might be. We might be back. We might be back because that was a really good movie. Oh, my gosh. Love, Nick Wild. Shout out Nick Wilde. But anyways, back to the topic at hand, Christmas music. We need to talk about real quick. Anything that has come out recently. The only good Christmas song that I have heard that has come out recently is we wish you the merriest by Liz Gillies, who played Jade on Victorious, if you don't know.

13:00
Valerie Gorham
And Seth MacFarlane, who is Peter Griffin and Stewie Griffin and Brian Griffin and all of the characters basically from Family Guy, but also he like sings like angel and so does Liz Gillies, obviously. And they have a Christmas album together and they have this song, we wish you the Merriest, which is a duet and it sounds like it's from the 50s. It's really good. That's why I like it so much, because it sounds like one of those old timey Christmas songs. But I haven't heard it really on the radio. I only heard it on Spotify. And I could easily see, like people confusing that for an old timey song and being like, oh, this is one of those old songs. Let's let's let it play like you. Because I don't think like modern day, like pop music is good for Christmas.

13:41
Valerie Gorham
The only modern, good pop Christmas song is Santa Tell Me by Ariana Grande. But an older pop Christmas song that also supports my idea is Simply Having A Wonderful Christmas time by Paul McCartney, which came out in 1979. Like everything was sucking at the time, apparently financially, economically, like nobody had any money. It was a huge recession. There was like an oil crisis. Not just here, but also the UK was having a terrible time. And obviously Paul McCartney is British. So at the time nobody cared about Christmas. And they were not simply having a wonderful Christmas time because they were all stressing out about how they had no money and they were in like such a crisis. And as that girl from the magic school bus would say, yeah, Magic school bus, yeah.

14:26
Valerie Gorham
As that girl from the magic school bus would say, according to my research, because she pronounces it like that. For some reason. Paul McCartney's song simply having a wonderful Christmas Time did not really take off until the mid-80s when things started stabilizing in the international economy and people could actually focus on like being happy again. I'm happy again. I'm laughing at clouds. Okay. Singing in the rain. Top 10 movie of all time. Top five, actually. Top three, actually. But this just further goes to show how the economy and the political and economic state of the world, Jaden Smith really has like a long lasting effect on, like, what sorts of art actually make an impact long term. So this is where we get to the classics.

15:19
Valerie Gorham
The classics like Bing Crosby, Nat King Cole, Brenda Lee, the Ronettes, Dean Martin, all that, those ones that you hear on the radio. And you're transported back in time between when you were five years old and your mom got you that Barbie doll or what that you've been wanting all year long, whatever. And so this music was from the 1940s to the 1960s. So World War II ends soldiers come home, they get married, they have kids. Baby boom. Everyone's happy. Everyone's happy that the war is over, there's hope, and also, simultaneously, a really great economy and just a lot of stability throughout the country. This was the era of the freaking nuclear family, where every family had two kids and a really cute dog and lived in. In that suburban little house, Leave it to Beaver style.

16:08
Valerie Gorham
And this time period also marked a lot of technological advancements and, like, consumerism was on the rise because people were buying TVs and radios and record players and stuff, and they were able to take in more, like, entertainment in their house. And this is when all of this music came out. You know, I think one of the biggest hits of the time was White Christmas by Bing Crosby. And they all have, like, Bing Crosby, Nat King Cole, Dean Martin. They all have, like, their own albums. Christmas albums, girl. And back in the 1940s, 50s, 60s, you know that those people were shaking their bonbons to freaking white Christmas. And like, oh, Christmas tree. And you know that those people back in the day, that's the kind of music they liked.

16:56
Valerie Gorham
So when they heard I'm Dreaming of a White Christmas, they would get down and they would not play about that music. Like, imagine you're at your house. It's 1945, with your dog. Your dog is named Sport. He's a golden retriever. Your brother's there, and your mom and your dad are there, and you're there. And the Christmas tree is bright, and it smells like ham, but it also smells like cinnamon. And it also smells kind of like apples and vanilla all at the same time. It's kind of snowing. It's starting to snow. And you see that, and then, boom. Your dad comes into the room, gets the record player, he plays the new Bing Crosby album that just dropped, and you're having the time of your life. I don't actually. I think it was 1947 when that one came out. But imagine that's the scene.

17:47
Valerie Gorham
Your house is fully decorated because your family has enough money to decorate the whole house. And, yeah, there's a present under the tree that's mysteriously bicycle shaped. And you've been wanting a bicycle, haven't you? Well, yes. And your dog is wearing a Santa hat. Girl, can you imagine? That's your life. That's awesome. Of course this is gonna become a Christmas classic. Everybody was happy at the time because, like, the war was over. It's like, yeah, finally. Jeez, that war was super long. And if it's finally over, then everyone's probably like, dang, it's about time. Let's celebrate. Dang. And not only that, the economy's good, everyone's employed, everyone has a steady income, so you can buy all the stuff you want for the season, and everyone's happy, everyone's replaying that song.

18:34
Valerie Gorham
And, you know, when people watch, like, 1950s, 1960s, even, like, 1940s stuff, there's not that much stuff from the 1940s, but when you watch 1950s and 60s sitcoms, you see very happy, basic families that are just like having a good old time. And what I find most beautiful about the popular Christmas music and the Christmas classics from the 40s, 50s, and 60s, and is that Nat King Cole and the Ronettes were so prominent at the time. And Nat King Cole was a black man. And the Ronettes is a girl group, three sisters who were all black women. I guess I'm kind of at my conclusion here, actually. But, I mean, basically, the economic state of the US Has a lot to do with whether or not the Christmas music that is released at the time sticks in the culture of Christmas.

19:27
Valerie Gorham
And we've literally seen that play out live for the past 10 years, ever since Donald Trump started running for president. Not only did that cause a lot of division and stress for everyone, but then Covid came along. Nobody was happy during that time. And then Trump got reelected. So now here we are. There have been no good Christmas songs ever since Donald Trump has been elected. And all the good Christmas songs came out when people were having a really good, economically stable, financially stable time. Their moms were not kind of homeless like that one guy from the iShowSpeed early stream. Their moms were kind of financially stable like his mom is now, thank goodness. And songs like Simply having a wonderful Christmas time that are amazing and wonderful, they still don't take off until people are happy again.

20:19
Valerie Gorham
So, yes, if you are feeling sad, just remember, it's not. It's not you. It's the government. The government's for doing this to you. And you're actually perfect. And there's nothing wrong with you, and you're actually wonderful. It's just that the government sucks and it's affecting you. And, yeah, you're doing nothing wrong. You've never done anything wrong in your life, and it's all the government's fault. Yay. It's not your fault. All right, that is basically the conclusion that is the end of the episode. I hope you enjoyed. I hope you got something out of this, because I really enjoyed learning about this and doing this research. But Merry Christmas. To those who celebrate. Happy Hanukkah. To those who celebrate and Happy New Year. And to whatever you celebrate, have a happy one. And if you don't celebrate anything, then, dang.

21:03
Valerie Gorham
Just have a good holiday season and winter. Dang. I hope it snows, but not too bad wherever you are, so that you have like a nice cozy time. And that is it for this episode of more and you think once again, I am Valerie. I hope you enjoyed and I will see you next year. Well, you will hear me next year I will not see you and you will not see me. But that is all. Love you by.