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Technology's daily show (formerly the Technology Brothers Podcast). Streaming live on X and YouTube from 11 - 2 PM PST Monday - Friday. Available on X, Apple, Spotify, and YouTube.
You're watching TVPN. Today is Meta Connect '20 twenty five, and we are live from the Fortress Of Followers, the Villa Of Virality. It's Mount Metaverse, baby. We are here in Menlo Park at Meta HQ to break down all the good stuff coming out of Meta Connect '20 twenty five
Speaker 2:And there's of a
Speaker 1:a massive lineup. But first, we wanted to sort of reflect on the past year, which has been remarkable.
Speaker 3:And busy.
Speaker 1:I I remember in one of our first episodes, we reviewed the Meta Ray Bans. I purchased them myself.
Speaker 4:So did I.
Speaker 1:This was coming off of Meta Connect twenty twenty four. We hadn't started the show when Meta Connect twenty twenty four happened. We sat down in a conference room at the Jonathan Club, turned on the microphones and the cameras, recorded and chatted for a while. And I put on the Meta Ray bands and, filmed you talking about it.
Speaker 3:And you said that Filmed me talking about the Metairie bands.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes. And your and your prediction was that in the future, you might have multiple sets of glasses for different occasions, some work glasses, some workout glasses, maybe a VR headset that we're entering this era of spatial computing and and augmented reality devices, head mounted displays, all sorts of different stuff. And so, it's just been a remarkable a remarkable run.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I think we also, in that episode, if I remember correctly, were talking about the importance of leveraging existing silhouettes with Yes. Which they've done incredibly well.
Speaker 1:Yeah. With Luxottica. And so, we have a wonderful show. We are, of course, distributing this across the Internet with Restream, restream.com. One livestream, 30 plus destinations.
Speaker 1:And we also just wanted to say thank you to the advertisers who have been with us from day one, adquick.com, out of home advertising made easy and measurable. Get bezel.com. You know Mark Zuckerberg loves his watches. Get yourself one at bezel.public.com, investing for those who take it seriously. They have multi asset investing.
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Speaker 3:Find your happy place.
Speaker 1:Find your happy place. Yeah. These are the advertisers that have made this show possible from day one, and look at where we are now. We're we're we're very happy to be here. But first, let's go through the lineup today.
Speaker 1:It's a The offensive lineup. The offensive lineup. Yes. So on the meta team, the meta mates, who will be coming on the show, we have Chris Cox. He's the chief product officer.
Speaker 1:He joined Facebook Absolutely dog. He joined Facebook in '20 in 02/2005. That's the same year the company was founded. He was in the first 15 software engineers and played a role in the development of News Feed. Then we got Adam Messeri coming on.
Speaker 1:He's the head of Instagram. He joined Facebook as a product designer in 02/2008. In 02/2009, he became the product, design manager, and in 2012, he became the design director for the company's mobile apps. Connor Hayes is coming on to he's the head of threads. Great name.
Speaker 1:Yes. Fantastic name, although he has an e. Yep. Added that in there. He did.
Speaker 1:He joined Facebook in 2011. He served in various product roles across Meta and Instagram over the past fourteen years. He was VP of Gen AI before building threads in 2023. Alexander Wang's coming on, the chief AI officer. Yes.
Speaker 1:He, briefly attended MIT, had a stint as as an algorithm developer at the high frequency trading firm Hudson River Trading, dropped out to cofound Scale AI.
Speaker 3:Is that a US physics team?
Speaker 1:Yeah. US physics team and I think IMO or IOI, one of those two, he was he was pretty pretty top tier at.
Speaker 5:Smart kid.
Speaker 1:Smart kid. Built scale into a behemoth and wound up doing a deal to come over here and lead the Meta Super Intelligence team. And so we're gonna go run into everything that he's doing to build the team at MSL and some of his plans, although, obviously, this event is focused on Meta Connect. It's focused on the some of the some of the
Speaker 3:A lot of the hardware.
Speaker 1:So a lot of the hardware that we'll see We're
Speaker 3:excited to talk to him about how he's thinking about integrating AI into all these different systems.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Then we have Andrew Bosworth. Bos, chief technology officer, head of Reality Labs. Bos began his career working for Marcus Microsoft as a developer on Microsoft Visio. In 02/2006, Bosworth received a call from a recruiter looking for a candidate with a background in artificial intelligence in 02/2006.
Speaker 1:02/2006, they were like, who who knows AI? Bos gets the call. He joins as one of the first 15 engineers at Facebook. Then we have Eva Chen, VP of fashion partnerships. She joined Instagram in 2015.
Speaker 1:We have Mark Zuckerberg, the man who needs no introduction. Alex Himmel is the VP of wearables. He's been at Meta for over fifteen years. Alex has played a key role in developing products like Ray Ban Meta smart smart glasses and Orion, which, we got a demo from, we got a demo for recently. Had a lot of fun with that.
Speaker 3:We've had three significant demos. Yeah. The first one, a few months ago, second one, last week, and then one today.
Speaker 1:One today. And fun fact about Alex Hemmel, he met his wife at Meta. And then lastly, closing out the team from Meta who's coming on the show today, we have Vishal Shah, the VP of the Metaverse. He joined Meta on the Instagram team back in 2015. So he's also been on a decade
Speaker 3:long
Speaker 1:run. Legend. So if you're looking to go on the offense, go to adio.com. Adio is the AI native CRM that builds, scales, and grows your company to the next level. On the defense, what's going on in the rest of the market?
Speaker 1:What's going on in the rest of the tech world?
Speaker 3:Who's paying attention?
Speaker 1:Who's who's watching today? Tim Cook, definitely watching. Yep. We saw this with the, with the iPhone launch event. The iPhone Pro Max comes out, vapor chamber, very cool, but a lot of people were focused on what was going on with the iPhone Air because the Air seemingly, when they showed the cross sections of what's going on internally, seemed like they had shrunk the entire computer down just to the bump.
Speaker 1:Yep. And the rest was just screen and battery. And so a lot of people are saying that Apple is going to maybe take that miniaturized phone and put it into another device. Maybe glasses, they've already done the Apple Vision Pro, not a huge success there. They're still finding their footing.
Speaker 1:Watching Making their today to figure out how they need to react next. Yep. Then you have OpenAI. We know Sam Allman didn't hunt hire Johnny Ive just to film cinematic coffee chats. Something.
Speaker 3:Spend a couple points of the company
Speaker 4:Yes.
Speaker 3:Make that happen.
Speaker 1:They're gonna they're gonna launch something. We've heard rumors. What was the rumor that it was something like a wearable that yeah. Telepathy. So you you speak A lot of
Speaker 3:rumors Totally unclear.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You speak without actually raising your voice to the point where someone can actually hear you across the room, and yet that can go into some sort of device. I think what we
Speaker 3:do know is that it's positioned as a third device. It's not your laptop. Yep. It's not your phone. Yep.
Speaker 3:Something else.
Speaker 1:Yep. Yeah. Yeah. So, yeah, Sam's been pretty clear that it's not a phone. What and then there's a startup that's doing something similar in the telepathy space.
Speaker 1:We saw their their launch video that looked Yeah.
Speaker 6:Blanky on
Speaker 3:the name. Went very viral recently. The other company that's probably watching is Waves. Yeah. Waves.
Speaker 3:Remember they went very viral. That's right. Recently, a lot of people were pissed off about the products. Yeah. It was basically ruining ruining everything.
Speaker 3:Yes. So they make a a live streaming or they're making a a device that will offer perpetual live streaming Yeah. On your face. And it's worth noting that the devices today are not focused on live streaming.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and it seemed like people were excited about the video for Waves, and they were excited about the the actual technology and the ability to livestream. They just didn't like the fact that you could turn the light off. Right? Yep.
Speaker 1:The privacy light of knowing when someone's recording seemed to be something the community really wanted. Yep. So we'll see. May may maybe he'll change his maybe the founder will change his tune and and switch up the product the the way the product is built so that you can't turn that off. That might be something that people just demand.
Speaker 1:But Yep. At at least until now, I'm sure they'll be watching closely to see what's coming out of Meta today. Then you have Elon. There's big news from semi analysis. The massive colossus two cluster is coming online.
Speaker 1:Elon simply refused to be GPU poor. He's doing a ton of interesting techniques to generate power. We're gonna go through some of that. And then, of course, whenever you launch anything on the Internet, you're going up against the timeline.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:But we were talking about
Speaker 3:this This has been interesting. Right? Yeah. There was leak earlier this week. Yep.
Speaker 3:We didn't cover it closely, but people were very excited about the releases. Yeah. It was immediately a good reaction. So That was good. Leak, better to better to be at least get a positive reaction.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And I was I was trying to compare this to previous tech launches from this year. Let me grab my papers.
Speaker 3:Got a little wind here, a little weather.
Speaker 1:I need to put my my Ray Bans on here. I was thinking about, like, why why has the response been positive? Tech people are fickle and skeptical of everything, and it does it does feel like wearables are underhyped right now.
Speaker 3:Totally underhyped. Right? But it's delivering science fiction today. Yeah. And the devices that we're talking about today are all pretty much immediately gonna be available.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And and at least from the previous Meta Ray Bans, I feel like the original Meta Ray Bans launch kinda took people by surprise. It kind of seemed like this, like, offshoot. It didn't have the same, like, oh, this is gonna take over everything like VR. Like, VR, you immediately go into, like, are you gonna be living in a virtual world?
Speaker 1:Are you gonna be doing everything in VR? And the Meta Ray bans were just like, look, it's something you're already wearing. It's fashionable, and now it just has a little bit It's more technology on a
Speaker 3:great camera
Speaker 1:Great camera.
Speaker 3:Versus headphones.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then the headphones, and then eventually, oh, we we can also talk to Meta AI through it, And then people get excited about that and whatnot. But it seems like the timeline is is primed to
Speaker 3:I think I think I think people have been so used to this getting heads up display demos
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then not actually getting to experience it themselves. Right? Yes. Not getting to experience something that's at the quality level of the demos provided. Yes.
Speaker 3:And we've done the demos. Yes. It's real.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:You're gonna be able to walk around with a heads up display.
Speaker 1:Yes.
Speaker 3:You're gonna be able to, and and and really, I think, we're obviously gonna walk watch the the the livestream ourselves, be
Speaker 4:able to
Speaker 3:react to it. But I think people are gonna be incredibly impressed by a number of the new of the new features and functionality of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Totally. Other big tech companies will be watching, of course. You got Google. At IO, they they announced something that looked like glasses with potentially a heads up display.
Speaker 1:Google, of course, launched Google Glass years ago. Couldn't back couldn't get that project fully off the ground, dipping their toe back into it with a bit of, like, a vision document, vision presentation, no firm timelines Yep. And and sort of unclear from the Google IO presentation whether this would be something that they're merely building software for and then handing off to partners like they do with
Speaker 3:Like Samsung.
Speaker 1:Like Samsung. Exactly. But, you know, obviously, some, some focus there. And then Amazon
Speaker 3:other news with Amazon.
Speaker 1:Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So they're trying to create devices for their workforce Okay. First. So focusing more
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:On effectively being the customer themselves. They have, you know, millions of employees globally. And so but their plan is to leverage the learnings from that, the scale from that, and take it in a in a consumer direction over time.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, if you're planning your big next move, you need to meet the system for modern software development. Linear is a purpose built tool for planning and building products. And that takes us in to the timeline, the news, what's going on in the tech world. So, the huge news today, out of the Financial Times is, that China has banned import of US chips.
Speaker 1:This has been going back for a while. We were talking to Bill Bishop about this this a few days ago. The quote that DD DOS shares is Beijing's regulators recently summoned domestic chip makers such as Huawei and Cambercon, as well as Alibaba and Baidu to report how their products compare against NVIDIA's China's chips. They concluded that China's AI processors had reached a level comparable to or exceeding that of NVIDIA's products allowed under export controls. That's currently the h twenties.
Speaker 1:Now, when we were talking to Bill Bishop, they were the the it seemed like NVIDIA is already working on, like, a a successive Version
Speaker 3:of the black well.
Speaker 1:Version of the black well. And so, there's obviously been a ton of pressure out of Beijing to reduce the amount of American ships and continue to drive domestic production with Huawei down down the learning curve. No matter how painful it is, they
Speaker 3:have Yeah.
Speaker 1:And the
Speaker 3:question was, are they gonna rip the Band Aid off and just decide, hey, we're willing to set back our industry slightly in order to gain a long term competitive edge on the manufacturing side?
Speaker 1:Yeah. This feels like, I don't know. Yeah. Interpreting it in the in the context of, like, how hot is the AI race. David Sachs has been saying that, like, the the the AI it we're not in Bill Gurley as well was talking about how, like, we're not in this hot AI war, this fast takeoff.
Speaker 1:You have to do it. It's much more, like, just little bit of additive value to your economy.
Speaker 3:Yeah. China's China's internal AI planning docs reflect this. Right? It's like, we're gonna drive efficiency Yeah. In industry Yeah.
Speaker 3:Using artificial intelligence. Yeah. It's not necessarily machine god yet. Machine god of war.
Speaker 1:I I mean, at least that that does seem the interpretation. You would think that you would get as as many chips as possible if you were like, it's happening this year. Yep. Like, don't worry about our local manufacturing. Just get the chips, train the model, and then you have it.
Speaker 1:But clearly, this is
Speaker 3:And remember, this is all following up couple weeks ago where they were being domestic players or being encouraged not to buy US chips. Yes. Yes. So so it was it was certainly something that they were saying, hey. We don't want you buying US chips.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But you can. You know, it wasn't a hard and fast rule.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:This, you know, is them coming in with the ban hammer.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, let's go through this Financial Times article a little bit more. China's Internet regulator has banned the country's biggest technology companies from buying NVIDIA's artificial chips as Beijing steps up efforts to boost its domestic industry and compete with The US. The Cyberspace Administration of China, CAC, told companies, including by Dance and Alibaba, this week that to end their testing and orders of the RTX Pro 6,000 d, NVIDIA's tailor made product for the country according to three people with knowledge of the matter. NVIDIA's shares fell around 3% on Wednesday.
Speaker 1:Did you see Jim Kramer said he's excited about AMD because they're gonna be able to sell video game graphics cards into China? That feels like extremely temporary because I I would be it feels like the headline is like no NVIDIA, but but the broader
Speaker 5:context is
Speaker 3:specifically an NVIDIA ban?
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's what the financial times
Speaker 3:are reporting. Yeah. Theoretically, you could go around that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Apparently. But, I mean, we'll have to see how they how they Yeah.
Speaker 3:We'll see how long that lasts.
Speaker 1:Yeah. This feels like something that's coming out of leaks, coming out of, like, you know, not necessarily, like, the final log.
Speaker 3:See what what AMD is doing today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Look it up. Several companies had indicated that they would order tens of thousands of the RTX Pro 6,000 d and had started testing and verification work with NVIDIA servers, server suppliers, the people said.
Speaker 1:After receiving the CIC order, the companies, the company told the companies told their suppliers to stop work. The ban goes beyond earlier guidance from regulators that focused on the h 20, NVIDIA's other China only chip widely used for AI. It comes after Chinese regulators concluded that domestic chips have attained performance comparable to those of NVIDIA's models used in China. That's, of course, Got
Speaker 3:it. The Huawei saying what what their process was, regulators deciding these are actually good enough.
Speaker 1:Well, it's this weird dynamic because Huawei was saying the same thing. Like, Huawei is incentivized to say, yes, we're as good as Nvidia. Yep. And then the Chinese regulators are saying, well, Huawei says it, so the rest of the companies, everyone who would be buying from Nvidia, Huawei, read the Huawei press release. Right?
Speaker 3:Do you recall semi analysis doing any type of, like, direct comparison?
Speaker 1:They did. Yeah. They did. And and the main result was that, you can train I I I think roughly, if I'm trying to track energy efficient. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Just just more energy costly, more expensive for China's got energy. But they do have energy. Exactly.
Speaker 1:So Jensen Huang, the chief executive of NVIDIA, told reporters in London on Wednesday that he expected to discuss the chipmaker's ability to do business with China with Donald Trump during the pre during that that evening during the president's state visit to The UK. Quote from Jensen Huang, he says, we can only be in service of a market if the country wants us to be.
Speaker 3:There's not much Trump can do unless he makes this a part of the conversation in Madrid.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Did you see the other news? Palantir today signed a billion dollar contract with The UK.
Speaker 3:750,000,000.
Speaker 1:No. 750,000,000 $707,150,000,000 pounds. Okay. Which I believe translates to exactly just over 1,000,000,000
Speaker 3:USD. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Let's hear it. Beijing is putting pressure on Chinese tech companies to boost the company's homegrown semiconductor industry industry and break their reliance on on NVIDIA so it can compete in an AI race against The US. The message is now loud and clear, said an executive at one of the tech companies earlier. People had hopes of renewed NVIDIA supply the geopolitical situation improves. Now it's all hands on deck to build the domestic system.
Speaker 1:NVIDIA started producing chips tailored for the Chinese market after former US president Joe Biden banned the company from exporting those its most powerful chips to China in an effort to rein in Beijing's progress on AI. Beijing's regulators have recently summoned domestic chipmakers such as Huawei and Cambercon, as well as Alibaba and search engine Baidu, which also make theirs their own semiconductors to report how their products compare against NVIDIA's China chips according to people familiar with the matter. They concluded that China's AI process have reached reached a level comparable or exceeding that of NVIDIA products allowed under export controls. And this was sort of the messaging from, from Jensen and Trump when they were talking about the h 20. They were saying, like, everyone knows h 20 as the China compliant chip, but it's been years.
Speaker 1:And so the, like, the market has moved on, and NVIDIA has more advanced product like Blackwell. And so we are we are talking not only about a chip that was nerfed on memory inter interconnect and a few other, a few other characteristics that make it more more compatible with the Yep. Trade regime. But, it's also just old at this point.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The immediate thought I have is what does NVIDIA do with their huge r and d center in, they've been building out in China. Right? At a certain point, I mean, there's they still have there's a lot of talent there.
Speaker 1:Is it more important than ever? Because you gotta be, you know, talking to Beijing and convincing them to buy the next thing. You know? It's a it's an olive branch. So you gotta be you gotta be pushing it to
Speaker 3:So right now, it's so over, but you think it we could get to the point I
Speaker 1:mean, we'll have to talk to we'll have to talk to, you know, the the the the regulars on the show, but this entire year has been back and forth with this story.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Do you think the the stock's down roughly 3% today? Do you think it'd be more if if do you think the market's kind of calling China's bluff?
Speaker 1:There's just so many different dynamics where there's, you know, cloud providers that are outside of China that will still be able to buy. There's, you know, ways to funnel chips through to China, like, the the deep sea story, where they'll all those chips come from. There's so many different dynamics. And then
Speaker 3:But but
Speaker 1:even even if you cut off China entirely from NVIDIA, like, that's not the bulk of their business. They can still sell to American hyperscalers.
Speaker 3:Yeah. They can sell to clouds based outside of China
Speaker 1:that
Speaker 3:people buy.
Speaker 1:Clouds. American clouds buy a ton of NVIDIA chips, and they wanna buy more and more and more. You know? So, like, the demand is there in United
Speaker 3:China and still leverage international clouds.
Speaker 1:To some extent. To some extent. Not not you can't just go to AWS. Yeah. But, you know, there there are certainly, jump ball countries that are kinda playing both sides.
Speaker 1:Yep. The Financial Times reported last month that China's chipmakers were seeking to triple the company the the country's total output of AI processors next year. The top level consensus is is there's going to be enough domestic supply to meet demand without having to buy NVIDIA chips. And, NVIDIA introduced the RTX Pro 6,000 d in July during Wang's visit to Beijing, when the US company also said Washington was easing its previous ban on the h 20 chip. China's regulators, including the CAC, have warned against tech companies have warned tech companies against buying NVIDIA h 20, which you've talked about, asking them to justify having purchased them over domestic products, the Feet reported last month.
Speaker 1:The RTX Pro 6,000 d, which the company has said could be used in automated manufacturing, was the last product NVIDIA was allowed to sell in China in significant volumes. Alibaba, ByteDance, and the CAC, and nobody basically nobody responded to request for comment, of course. Well, the other news today that we have to cover, the the Fed made the first rate cut. 25 American bips. Yes.
Speaker 1:Polymarket, our sponsor, says breaking the polymarket for today's Fed decision has surpassed $200,000,000 in volume, making it the largest FOMC prediction market in history. The last event. And Polymarket is projecting two more rate cuts this this year. From the Wall Street Journal, Fed lowers rates by a quarter point signals more cuts are likely. Concerns about a job market slowdown are overriding jitters about inflation in ingesting a pivot towards a shallow sequence of rate reduction.
Speaker 3:The Federal Reserve approved a quarter point interest rate cut Wednesday, the first in nine months, with officials judging the recent labor market softness outweighed setbacks on inflation. A narrow majority of officials penciled in at least two additional cuts this year, implying consecutive moves at the Fed's two remaining meetings in October and December. The projections hint at a broader shift toward concern about cracks forming in the job market in an environment complicated with major policy shifts that have made the economy harder to read. Recent The declines in the growth rate for both the number of people looking for jobs and those getting employment have, quote, certainly gotten everyone's attention, Fed chair Jerome Powell said at the conference. Powell, who referred to, quote, downside risk six times at a at the news conference in July, said on Wednesday that downside risk is now a reality.
Speaker 3:The Fed's carefully drafted post meeting statement pointed to those concerns when it said the rate cut was justified in light of the shift in the balance of risks. The statement no longer described the labor markets as solid.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What's your take on this? I feel like when we looked through the Sun Valley transcript from Powell, we were seeing lots of mentions of inflation. That was mostly because they were kind of redefining the definitions and and working through some kind of jargony issues. It was it wasn't really an inflation focused talk necessarily, but there is this interesting dynamic where there's not a lot to point to, like gold at all time highs, Bitcoin at all time highs, stock market at all time highs, NASDAQ.
Speaker 3:That's data you can trust because you can go to your brokerage Yes. And see prices. Yes. The data that that that now I don't I don't think people have a lot of faith in at all Yeah.
Speaker 1:Is is is Job market data? Labor market data. Labor market Right.
Speaker 3:Because it just gets revised up or down and back forth. And, of course, it's tricky, but but that that just makes it you know, again, I mean, the big concern is stagflation. Right? The feds carefully drafted, so 11 of 12 fed voters backed the quarter point cut. Fed governor Stephen Merrin, who served as a senior White House adviser until his confirmation of the Central Bank Board this week, was the lone dissenter.
Speaker 3:He favored a larger half point cut. Mhmm. That makes sense given the White House connection. The the projections underscore how coming could decisions could be more contentious. Seven of 19 meeting participants penciled in no further rate reductions this year, and two more penciled in only one more cut.
Speaker 3:And they show that most officials don't expect to make many more reductions next year, under their current outlook for solid economic activity.
Speaker 1:And the, yeah. The I mean, the reaction from the timeline has not been fantastic. Have you seen the ten years resurging?
Speaker 3:Back up.
Speaker 1:Not what you wanna see. I mean, the the hope with rate cuts is mortgages get more affordable. Right? And with higher ten year, higher longer at the long end of the yield curve, you're gonna see just less home affordability. And so, hopefully, this does kind of ease markets to the point where
Speaker 3:you can see more is
Speaker 1:the hiring problem. But
Speaker 3:Are are management teams thinking
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 3:How we got a quarter point reduction. But let's hire a bunch of people. Right? I don't think anybody's Maybe.
Speaker 1:Right? Yeah. Like I don't know. Stocks go up.
Speaker 5:I don't
Speaker 1:think anybody's gets easier. Like, it's easy to raise money. And so you raise more money, you hire more people. Like, that's the that's the certainly the startup world and, like, rate cuts should work their way through all the way to the venture markets. And every company should be a little bit breathing a little bit easier with lower rates.
Speaker 1:And so you should see it should have an effect on the on the job market, but There's certainly a just lot. How quickly. Yeah. Yeah. And there and there is a lot.
Speaker 3:President Trump has berated Fed chair Jerome Powell for months for the central bank's reluctance to cut rates. Senate Republicans confirmed Merrin to his seat on Monday night, and he was sworn in just before the Fed's two day meeting began on Tuesday morning. Merrin, who is on unpaid leave from the White House, has said he could go back when his Fed term expires early next year. And it goes into a bit on Lisa Cook. Some history here Debacle.
Speaker 1:The between September and December 2024, the Fed cut rates by one percentage point, lowering them from a two decade high. The previous to prevent unnecessary weakness to the economy after substantial and broad decline in inflation. But officials paused cuts after, after that amid signs of stronger growth and potentially stickier inflation. Officials are navigating an economy reshaped by sweeping policy experiments. Trump has imposed tariffs that far exceed those of his first term, rising costs from manufacturing and small businesses.
Speaker 1:The full effect the full effects on consumer prices remain unclear as companies adjust supply chains and pricing strategies. Sharper curves on immigration could be contributing to a slower pace of job gains by reducing labor force growth. So we'll keep tracking this. We'll have to catch up with Joe Wiesenthal.
Speaker 3:Hopefully, get the update. Financial brother.
Speaker 1:Yes. Of course. So the the other big news is from semi analysis, XAI's Colossus 2 is the first gigawatt data center in the world. And we don't have time. We are gonna run into the live keynote commentary in just two minutes.
Speaker 1:But the This picture is wide. Takeaway is this picture. Yes. So Colossus 2 is technically in Memphis, Tennessee. But according to the semi analysis team, Memphis and Tennessee have been getting a lot of pushback.
Speaker 1:So XAI's genius move was to develop a gigawatt scale energy hub right across the border in in South Haven, Mississippi. And so you can see on this map we'll have to pull up the the photos when
Speaker 4:see it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It really is this, like, crazy arbitrage. I think Dylan Patel called it, like, four d chess that only Elon can do or some
Speaker 7:Two d chess.
Speaker 1:It really is two d chess. It's like a you look at the map, it looks like two it looks like chess. But, yeah, he's Just behind regular chess. Maybe behind enemy lines. I'm not exactly sure what the what the correct analogy is.
Speaker 1:But
Speaker 3:I mean, it's a it's a good, you know, it's a good bet. You go over to Mississippi. You talk to the governor there of South Haven. You say, do you want me to hire a bunch of people in your state? Mississippi says, sounds great.
Speaker 3:Let's do it.
Speaker 1:The benefits of the American state based system. Right? Like, every state can compete for jobs, for business, for energy production, whatever it takes to get it done. Also today, I think Elon said or claimed that Grok five will begin training in just a few weeks, and he thinks that Grok five will be capable of reaching AGI. And so, I'm not even sure how we're benchmarking that or or quantifying that.
Speaker 1:Grok has obviously been doing fantastic on Arc AGI, our favorite.
Speaker 3:Everybody has their own definition.
Speaker 1:Everyone does. And we
Speaker 3:have goalposts. We're gonna keep moving.
Speaker 1:We're gonna keep moving. We are in the goalpost moving business. What have you done for me lately, Foundation Labs? That's what I like to say. Exactly.
Speaker 1:Anyway, the keynote is starting in just fifty seconds. We are going to be broadcasting it live and giving you commentary on I the am keynote from Metaconnect.
Speaker 3:I am impressed that we've gotten this far without leaking anything.
Speaker 1:Plus, it took a lot
Speaker 3:of strength.
Speaker 1:Of embargos, but we pulled it off. We did it. And we got through. Capital j journalism. Yes.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Well, Amanda Goodall on Acts says, if your interview process takes longer than electing a pope, you're doing it wrong.
Speaker 3:Elected in two days.
Speaker 1:Two days. Your remote hire doesn't need five rounds of interviews. I said what I said. And Gabe says, yeah. Well, I bet the pope pope can't debug a distributed system.
Speaker 3:40% in 2025.
Speaker 1:That is crazy. Everything is up. Everything is up. Gold, Bitcoin, the market, everything is ripping. I had some friends who predicted this.
Speaker 1:I remember in our group chat. One of her buddies was
Speaker 3:saying The golden bull run. The bull There's also somebody put a a a golden statue of Trump holding Yes. A physical Bitcoin Right. Right near the White House.
Speaker 1:Can you just put up statues? We we talked about right? Maybe. I mean, we talked about this with the with the original Wall Street bull. Right?
Speaker 1:The guy built it in his he built the bull, the famous Wall Street bull in his apartment, and then just dropped it off, but there was a Christmas event the time. So he had to, like, leave and come back and sneak it in there and put it down. I guess you can just make statues and just put them down in the real world.
Speaker 5:You can.
Speaker 1:The other news in the venture world, artificial intelligence chip startup Grok raised $750,000,000 at a post funding valuation of 6,900,000,000.0.
Speaker 3:Said Yeah. Grok will be a $100,000,000,000 company if it doesn't get bought before then. Yeah. And we've debated on the show before who would be a potential buyer for Grok Yeah. Number of number of players, but we'll see.
Speaker 3:This is a fantastic milestone. We'll have to have Jonathan on again soon.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We've had a couple of the folks on on on the show.
Speaker 3:Alex Cohen had a great post here.
Speaker 1:Salesforce.
Speaker 3:On Salesforce. So last fall, one of Salesforce technical teams told large Salesforce customers that using AgentForce, the software firm's new, artificial intelligence for automating customer service and other functions, would require extensive planning. The product information the Salesforce We're going
Speaker 1:live, Jordan.
Speaker 3:We're going live. It's time.
Speaker 1:321. Here we go.
Speaker 7:There he is.
Speaker 1:There he is.
Speaker 8:Mark, we're ready
Speaker 7:for you. Alright.
Speaker 1:Here we go.
Speaker 3:No way. Here we go. Wow. Throw on some tunes.
Speaker 1:Live demo. Ballsy. It's high risk.
Speaker 3:High risk, high reward. Love it. And I will say the speakers in the new Meadoway bands have improved dramatically.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There
Speaker 3:you go. Just ripping emojis on the way in.
Speaker 7:It's going on.
Speaker 3:Hey, there's Diplo. Good to see you, Wes. So the glasses can support live streaming. They must.
Speaker 1:Maybe that's the one more game we'll see. Here we go. Hot house at Metaconnect twenty twenty five. Here we go.
Speaker 7:We'll talk about these in a minute.
Speaker 1:Here we go.
Speaker 7:Welcome to Connect. Alright.
Speaker 3:No chain.
Speaker 7:AI, glasses and virtual reality. Our goal is to build great looking glasses that deliver personal super intelligence and a feeling of presence using realistic holograms, and these ideas combined are what we call the metaverse. Now glasses are the ideal form factor for personal superintelligence because they let you stay present in the moment while getting access to all of these AI capabilities that make you smarter, help you communicate better, improve your memory, improve your senses, and more. Glasses are the only form factor where you can let an AI see what you see, hear what you hear, talk to you throughout the day, and very soon generate whatever UI you need right in your vision in real time. So, it is no surprise that AI glasses are taking off.
Speaker 7:This is now our third year shipping AI glasses with our great partner, Essilor Luxottica. And the sales trajectory that we've seen is similar to some of the most popular consumer electronics of all time. Now we are focused on designing glasses with a few clear values. Number one. They need to be great glasses first.
Speaker 7:Now before we get to any of the technology, the glasses need to be well designed and comfortable. And if you're gonna wear glasses on your face all day, every day, then they need to be refined in their aesthetics and they need to be light. So in addition to working with iconic brands, we have spent years of engineering, obsessing over how to shave every fraction of a millimeter and portion of a gram that we can from every pair of glasses that we ship and I think that that shows in the work. Number two. The technology needs to get out of the way.
Speaker 7:The promise of glasses is to preserve this sense of presence that you have when you're with other people. Now this feeling of presence, it's a profound thing and I think that we've lost it a little bit with phones and we have the opportunity to get it back with glasses. So when we're designing the hardware and software, we focus on giving you access to very powerful tools when you want them and then just having them fade into the background otherwise. Number three. Take super intelligence seriously.
Speaker 7:This is going to be the most important technology in our life lifetimes. AI should serve people, not just be something that sits in a data center automating large parts of society. So we design our glasses to be able to empower people with new capabilities as soon as they become possible. You know, we think in advance about what kind of sensors are gonna be necessary and we make it so you can just update your software and make your glasses and yourself smarter and direct AI towards what matters most in your life. Alright.
Speaker 7:So with all that said, we do have some new glasses to show you today.
Speaker 3:The air horn's up first.
Speaker 7:I wanna start with these. The next generation of Ray Ban Meta glasses.
Speaker 1:Here we go.
Speaker 4:People's not even gonna as
Speaker 7:smart as The original iconic design. This is actually the popular
Speaker 3:glasses Also design in underrated how smart it is for Luxottis to not kick.
Speaker 7:Now, with double the battery life.
Speaker 1:That was a great partnership.
Speaker 7:I wear them all day. They never run out of battery. It's got three k video recording, double our previous resolution for sharper, smoother, and more vivid videos.
Speaker 1:Feels very It's for Rakinno.
Speaker 7:Ray Ban Meta.
Speaker 1:Really good pacing.
Speaker 7:And Meta AI keeps on getting better.
Speaker 3:He knows it better.
Speaker 7:So last year I did this live demo translating live between two people. We were doing that on stage. Now today, I am excited to introduce a feature that we call conversation focus. It's a new feature coming soon that is going to be able to amplify your friends' voices in your ear. So if you're in a noisy restaurant, you're basically going to be able to turn up the volume on your friends or whoever you're talking to.
Speaker 3:This feature's crazy.
Speaker 7:And Yeah. And conversation focus, it's not only gonna be on the new Ray Ban Metas, it's gonna be available as a software update on all of the existing Ray Ban Metas too.
Speaker 3:This feature makes being in a loud restaurant bearable.
Speaker 7:Now to show Or
Speaker 3:this being at a being at concert. Concert.
Speaker 7:And Jack Coin in the streets of New
Speaker 1:into watching
Speaker 7:Check out how this works.
Speaker 1:Into the wearables at concerts.
Speaker 9:Hi, Donnie. Hello. How are you?
Speaker 1:Got the renaissance vibes going up?
Speaker 3:It's going off, baby. Jack.
Speaker 1:I just put my name in. It's gonna be a couple minutes. Nice.
Speaker 10:I need your advice. Advice.
Speaker 11:Okay. Every time I get my picture taken, I
Speaker 4:feel like I'm not being normal. I wanna feel like
Speaker 11:just a regular person when I'm One sec, Jack.
Speaker 1:Hey, Meta. Start conversation
Speaker 9:focus. Starting conversation focus.
Speaker 1:Okay. Go on.
Speaker 4:As soon as the camera comes up Yeah. I start to have this like serious Deering headlight. Yeah. How do I be like more normal?
Speaker 5:Oh, man.
Speaker 4:How do I be more natural like while I'm getting my picture
Speaker 1:taken? Sometimes I play around with something like your collar, fix your sleeve a little bit and like Yeah. Just like Sort of action. Like nobody's around. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:You got this
Speaker 8:You got everything ready.
Speaker 1:Good demo. Alright. Value of having a camera on the on the headphones.
Speaker 7:Conversation focus. Alright. We are also improving live AI. As we optimize battery and energy efficiency, Meta AI is going to transition from being something that you invoke when you have a question to a service that is running all the time and helping you out throughout the day. Now to be clear, we're not there yet on all day Live AI use.
Speaker 7:This is one of the major technology challenges that we're still working through, but today you can use Live AI for about an hour or two straight. So to get a feeling for what this is like Love the ONC. Cut to chef Jack Mancuso, who's coming to us live from a kitchen on Meta's campus preparing for the after party. How's it going chef? Alright.
Speaker 7:So, what do you think? Maybe let's make I don't what should we make? Maybe like a steak sauce? Maybe Korean inspired type thing? You know, just to show what the Live AI is like.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Let's try it. It's not something I've made before, so I could definitely use the help. Hey, Meta. Start live AI.
Speaker 9:Starting live AI. I love this setup you have here with soy sauce and other ingredients. How can I help?
Speaker 1:Hey. Can you help me make a Korean inspired steak sauce for my steak sandwich here?
Speaker 9:You can make a Korean inspired steak sauce using soy sauce, sesame
Speaker 1:oil, ranch.
Speaker 3:What do I do first?
Speaker 9:You've already combined the base ingredients. So now, grate a pair to add to the sauce.
Speaker 1:When I first got my pair of Meda Ray Bans
Speaker 3:What do I do first?
Speaker 1:I'd wear them when I'd walk around. I'd take my dog for a walk. And I would wind up just having So now I'm his hair. They're the most, like, cutting edge, like, thing that you can only do with having a camera, looking at the actual ingredients, piecing it all together. But I would just ask it about the history of the Roman Empire and just be talking to it like it was any other LOM.
Speaker 1:And I think that I'd I'd love to know the actual breakdown. Yeah. Yeah. I'd love to know the actual breakdown of, like, like, meta AI queries that come through the glasses. How much are the uniquely unlocked?
Speaker 1:Like, when you talk to a lot of folks that use meta ray bans, a lot them use AI to call them all. Intersections. It's like
Speaker 7:between technology.
Speaker 1:It's not something you can just say at speedboat. Technology. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But you you you need to have the unique unlocks that the key, features that can only be done when you put this particular set of technologies together. That's the key demo. But a lot of times, like, you know, you go back to like, know, so much technology, we wind up just using it for messaging, Wind up just using it for knowledge retrieval. That type of stuff.
Speaker 7:You know, last year at Connect
Speaker 1:What else are they?
Speaker 7:We also released limited edition clear frames.
Speaker 1:I got them right here.
Speaker 7:And they were pretty popular. They sold out in a few days. So we've got a
Speaker 3:new limited edition.
Speaker 1:You can see the internals here.
Speaker 7:With two colors.
Speaker 1:Do they not have anything in the
Speaker 7:Get them quickly, because they're probably gonna be sold out in a few days too.
Speaker 3:Now look on the other side.
Speaker 7:Now it's been pretty fun to see how
Speaker 1:I think you'd put space everywhere.
Speaker 7:Taken Ray Ban Meta in a lot of different directions. You know, some of some of you probably are familiar with the fashion label, Luar, run by Raul Lopez.
Speaker 1:Are you? I'm not. I'm actually not.
Speaker 7:And you know, he's bold designer who's bringing together sportswear and high fashion. He recently debuted a look that centered on Ray Ban Meta at New York Fashion Week. Raul's actually here today along with Christy Baez modeling the look that he created.
Speaker 1:Here we go.
Speaker 3:There he is. Awesome.
Speaker 7:Good to see you. Alright. Alright. That's the next generation of Ray Ban Meta. We're really excited about this.
Speaker 7:They're available now starting at $3.79.
Speaker 3:Alright. A bad price point.
Speaker 7:This summer, we launched our first pair of AI glasses with Oakley. The Oakley Meta Houston.
Speaker 3:Next announcement is what I've almost leaked, like, never mind.
Speaker 1:Did he talk about slo mo?
Speaker 7:Hopefully, it's synonymous with sports for fifty years now. They're available in a number of great colors.
Speaker 3:By the way, you Okay, can stay on the my screen right now, you can see a massive skateboard ramp to the left of John.
Speaker 12:Brand new I don't think we want a docs who's gonna be
Speaker 3:skateboarding in a little bit, but Yeah. We received some practice earlier. Look at these. The vanguard.
Speaker 7:Now this is this is the iconic Oakley aesthetic. These glasses are designed for performance. On these Wakeboarding. Know, pull the battery
Speaker 1:even can the lineage perfectly.
Speaker 7:Using them the whole time on single charge, and then you can turn around and run another marathon on the same charge and still not be out of battery. The camera. These are
Speaker 3:incredibly light.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For
Speaker 3:perfect It's feel like you're holding the camera at all.
Speaker 7:It's got a wider 122 degree field of view, so you can capture all the epicness of your adventure in three k. And it's got video stabilization. So that means that as you're going down a trail, you're gonna be able to capture some really great video. Alright. The Open Ear speakers are the most powerful speakers that we've shipped yet.
Speaker 7:With six decibels louder than Oakley Meta Howe Stones. So they're great for running on a noisy road or biking in 30 mile an hour winds. You know I actually took a call on a jet ski a few weeks ago. It was great.
Speaker 1:I can hear the other
Speaker 7:person fine over the engine and our advanced wind noise reduction makes it so that you can basically be standing in a wind tunnel and you'd still come in clear to the person on the other side.
Speaker 3:It's loud. The person
Speaker 7:had no idea I was on a jet ski, which is good. Alright. We've added slow motion and hyper glass capture modes, so you can capture your adventures in new ways. These modes are also gonna be available on all the new glasses that we're announcing here. The new Ray Ban Meta, the new Oakley Meta Houston's two.
Speaker 3:And you can trigger these with Meta AI.
Speaker 7:Great footage with any
Speaker 3:of the other glasses.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Mo video.
Speaker 7:We're partnering with Garmin.
Speaker 1:Have you ever done hyperlapse?
Speaker 7:Introduce Are
Speaker 1:you familiar with this?
Speaker 7:Now if
Speaker 3:you're Take supposed to talk about a device
Speaker 1:a bunch of photos, stitch them all together, and smooths everything out.
Speaker 7:Video when you reach certain speeds or different distance intervals or like every mile of a marathon and then when you're done, we'll just stitch together all the videos for you and you can overlay the stats on top of them and you get a nice video that you can share wherever you want.
Speaker 1:That goes wild.
Speaker 7:And we're also partnering with Strava. So you can overlay your stats from Strava two and share all the same type of content with your Strava community. Alright.
Speaker 3:This is big.
Speaker 7:We put an LED in them, so that way it can light up in your peripheral vision to help keep you on your pace target or heart rate zone target. So that's gonna be really useful if
Speaker 3:you're I didn't catch that on the demo, that's very cool.
Speaker 7:A Garmin device too. These are also our most water resistant glasses yet. With an IP 67 rating, they can get wet. I've taken them out surfing. It's fine.
Speaker 7:It's good.
Speaker 3:I'm gonna put this to the real test.
Speaker 4:What's that?
Speaker 7:They're also designed with swapping
Speaker 3:Oh, surfing? Prism shield. Two wave hold down.
Speaker 7:Different light
Speaker 3:You know about two wave hold down?
Speaker 1:No, it's
Speaker 12:like Different styles. Normally
Speaker 7:can customize
Speaker 3:Surfing, you'll fall. Yeah. The wave will, if you fall, the wave will fall over you. Yeah. Then you're gonna be you'll come up.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Two wave hold down is when another wave
Speaker 1:Oh, so have to wait for the second one to come in.
Speaker 3:And so, you'd be really potentially sitting basically on the on the surface. If you're lucky, kinda waiting for it to roll over and then pop up.
Speaker 1:Do you wear sunglasses when you surf?
Speaker 3:But I'm No. Going to
Speaker 1:Yeah. Nothing.
Speaker 3:I can see you going surfing and bring a pair
Speaker 1:of the nerdiest thing you could
Speaker 3:possibly do? That would be typically
Speaker 1:What's the right style? Yeah. Cool. Yeah. Speeding is 100 kilometers I would definitely be caught wearing wearing some scuba gear while while surfing.
Speaker 1:And a hat?
Speaker 3:Yeah. You
Speaker 1:don't wear a hat?
Speaker 3:It's also
Speaker 1:very feel like your hat flies off. Right? Immediately?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Yeah. It's hard to keep on even even if you have, like, a even if you have it strapped on.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I haven't seen what what what are those things that go behind those Look at this foot. Or something. Yeah. This is Red Bull.
Speaker 1:Right? Yeah. The best. Yeah. Camera's in the center, so I think it, it fits inside a helmet better.
Speaker 1:Also
Speaker 3:Hey, Meta. Lighter? Yeah. I do I do wonder if they'll they'll work with Oakley on on a on a ski goggle. Oh,
Speaker 1:yeah. That would make a ton of sense. Probably leak in the next thing.
Speaker 3:No inside knowledge.
Speaker 1:No. But it doesn't make sense.
Speaker 8:Perfectly like fit.
Speaker 1:Oakley makes makes gigolls now. Yep.
Speaker 3:The announcement What's all I'm waiting for?
Speaker 7:Oakley men of Vanguard. Alright. We are selling them for $4.99. Pre orders start now and we're gonna ship them on October 21.
Speaker 3:Priced to And
Speaker 1:shipping fast. Anans everywhere, rejoice.
Speaker 7:Alright. Now let's check out those glasses I walked on stage with.
Speaker 1:Here we go. It's milestone.
Speaker 7:Been working on glasses for more than ten years at Meta. And this is one of those special moments where we get to show you something that we've poured a lot of our lives into, and that I just think is different from anything that I've seen anyone else work on. I am really proud of this, and I'm really proud of our team for achieving this. This is Meta Ray Ban display. These are glasses with the classic style that you'd expect from Ray Ban, but they are the first AI glasses with a high resolution display.
Speaker 7:And a whole new way to interact with them. The meta neural band.
Speaker 3:That's it. It's had it on since the I got two wrists for a reason. People were teasing it.
Speaker 7:This isn't a prototype. Is here, it is and ready to you're going to be able
Speaker 4:to buy
Speaker 7:them in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 10:Alright.
Speaker 3:So we've demoed this on two separate occasions.
Speaker 1:What's new here? Yeah.
Speaker 7:There are two key innovations.
Speaker 1:Obviously, there's a ton of the stuff that we saw in the Orion demo, and people were talking about the last Meta Connect. That last Meta Connect that came out in Orion, presented it, but it was it was a demo, now getting ready to ship.
Speaker 7:It appears in one eye. It's slightly off center, so it doesn't block your view, and it disappears after a few seconds when it's not in use, so it doesn't distract you.
Speaker 3:It's not visible from the outside. Yeah.
Speaker 7:I mean like 42 pixels per degree, which is sharper than any major headset that's out there, and up to 5,000 nits of brightness. So it is crisp whether you're indoors or outdoors on the sunniest day. This required a custom light engine and waveguide to deliver this. It's a lot of awesome technology that we're really proud of. And then there's the neural interface.
Speaker 7:Every new computing platform has a new way to interact with it. So for the glasses, we are replacing the keyboard, mouse, touch screen, buttons, dials with the ability to send signals from your brain with little muscle movements that the neural
Speaker 3:I can't wait for people to try this. It's a really wild experience.
Speaker 1:It is crazy. They had so many company that was doing something like this, and then obviously added the folks to the team to build it up. But yeah, a completely different interaction paradigm.
Speaker 7:We have built a neural interface into a durable, lightweight, comfortable and good looking wristband with eighteen hours of battery life and is water resistant.
Speaker 3:Changing the volume when you're listening to music by just going like this.
Speaker 7:That was crazy. Was a crazy experience. I want to get into this in more detail. We've got two options. We've got the slides or we've got the live demo.
Speaker 8:Slides, slides. Give us slides.
Speaker 3:We're slide enjoyers here, but Now, we'll take the live
Speaker 7:one of the most important and frequent things that we all do on our phones is send messages. So when we were designing these meta ray bans, we wanted to make it really easy to send and receive messages. And look, Boz is messaging me right now. Alright. Now, okay, I could go ahead and I could dictate with my voice.
Speaker 7:I could send a voice clip. But I've got this neural vent, and it's silent. And now, and you know a lot of the time you're around other people. So it's good to just be able to type without anyone seeing and
Speaker 1:He's doing both at the same time. He's talking while he's training. That is so aggressive. Yeah. When we tried this, I We'll curse you realise.
Speaker 1:Remember how
Speaker 3:to write. We both realized quickly we forgot how to write. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It is. It is Or
Speaker 3:you pick it up quick.
Speaker 4:Yeah. It's like
Speaker 1:riding a bike. Something about actually having a pencil of pen in your hand that makes it easier to come back.
Speaker 7:What do you think? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Just to write like this.
Speaker 7:Alright.
Speaker 1:It's definitely a new skill. Like, it's it's like learning to type on a
Speaker 8:Coming in any moment now.
Speaker 1:Smartphones,
Speaker 9:keyboard Boss, what's up, baby?
Speaker 1:Actual keyboard.
Speaker 7:There we go.
Speaker 3:It's just interesting to be thinking about sitting here. I get a message from somebody Yep. And I just need to respond Let's
Speaker 2:see what happened here.
Speaker 3:Like this? Yeah. It is That's incredibly nasty.
Speaker 7:I don't know what happened. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I'm I'm interested. I mean, you can see the
Speaker 7:can try calling me again.
Speaker 1:See, he's dictating text as well. And I'm wondering what do you think the breakdown will be between people writing with the handwriting My neural handwriting input versus just whispering to it or talking to it.
Speaker 7:This is
Speaker 1:You remember trying the microphones. It was pretty remarkable how how you could just whisper and it would still pick it up because of the location of the Go ahead. The microphones on the device.
Speaker 9:WhatsApp video call.
Speaker 7:Let's go for a fourth. Alright. Try it again. I keep on messing this up. And if not, then we'll Okay.
Speaker 7:Go for the less fun don't know what to tell you guys. Alright.
Speaker 1:Live demos, man. We're gonna Takes guts.
Speaker 7:Come out here and we're just gonna go to the next thing that I wanted to show and hope that will work. Alright.
Speaker 3:Takes guts. The functionality that he's testing is you you basically, I can call somebody and give them a first person Now view I'll of what I'm seeing.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So you went out of the room, I called you while I was wearing these I'm gonna come out. And you saw what I saw Yep. And I saw you. Yep.
Speaker 1:Which was kind of funny. I mean, it makes maybe more sense for both wearing them. But And you can imagine that at some point, they just do an avatar. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And then, think about you're at the grocery store, and it's like, hey, which one do you want? Right? Yes. You can call. Yeah.
Speaker 9:From Spotify, here's California Dreamin' by the Mamas and the Papas.
Speaker 1:Here we go.
Speaker 7:Alright. And if I want to adjust the volume, I act like there's a volume control front of me and I can just turn it.
Speaker 1:That's pretty good. That is a it is it is a really good interaction there. I mean, it's it's not that hard. Don't don't do some volume rockers on there? You
Speaker 3:could slide your finger up.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Can slide your finger. Even that, yeah, a little bit easier.
Speaker 7:Things like a 100 times and that
Speaker 1:What do you think the what do you think the difference between the input for handwriting versus talking to will be? In terms of usage? Yeah. Like if you were if you were one year from now, you have access to Meta's internal data. Obviously, there's gonna be a bunch of people that buy these, try them, they use them.
Speaker 1:Some of them are addicted to the handwriting. Some of them never use the handwriting. Some of them use fifty fifty. What do you think will be more popular in a year?
Speaker 3:I just think the ability to communicate in text without a device is
Speaker 7:Ready for it. Okay. Now, I don't know about
Speaker 3:Is highly useful in certain circumstances Yeah. But not necessarily the way that you're gonna have That's my fault. Long drawn out conversation.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It is it is really this case where you need That's to be
Speaker 7:we prove it's live. Yeah. Okay. So now, like
Speaker 4:I was saying.
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. This is really cool. It centers the voice, gives you subtitles for the person that you're talking to, obviously. In any language.
Speaker 7:Yeah. When I watch TV, I pretty much always have the subtitles on. I can hear fine, but I find that it just makes it easier to follow along. But if you have an issue hearing, then I think that this is gonna be a game changer.
Speaker 13:Yeah. I agree. And it's also cool. It can do translation. So if I'm talking to somebody who speaks a different language than me, I'll get a translation in my native language right on the display, real life subtitles.
Speaker 1:I do that a lot with the subtitles in movies, but I feel bad about it every time I turn them on because I'm like, there's something wrong with me. Why can't I just enjoy enjoy it the the way the filmmaker intended? Like the filmmaker Maybe
Speaker 3:he's a subtitle enjoyer too. Baby. Like, I've made this film to be enjoyed with subtitles.
Speaker 1:I somehow believe that Tom Cruise would not want that. He he doesn't he doesn't believe in frame interpolation. I know
Speaker 7:what happened.
Speaker 13:I was trying to call you.
Speaker 1:I know
Speaker 7:what happened.
Speaker 8:Were you busy?
Speaker 7:Yeah. You know, alright. Alright. What should we take? You got some sick shoes, man.
Speaker 7:Okay.
Speaker 1:This is this is important.
Speaker 7:I'll take take some photos. You know what?
Speaker 14:Go ahead
Speaker 7:and take a video just because we missed that opportunity before.
Speaker 13:Thank you.
Speaker 7:Say hi. You wanna wave? Alright. There you go.
Speaker 3:Just a couple of lads.
Speaker 7:Yeah. You wanna show the the case? So charging case the glasses.
Speaker 3:Holds nice and flat.
Speaker 13:Yeah. Fits in your pocket. Fits in your bag, and then look at that, pops open.
Speaker 1:Oh wow. Oh interesting. Flat when it doesn't have them in there but then when you put them in it gets bigger. Yep.
Speaker 7:Simply and then I can just you know go ahead and just browse through them and look at them after.
Speaker 1:That's not all you're gonna be able to do one day. That's gonna be valuable. Very
Speaker 3:cool decision to put the heads up display offset. So I can have a conversation with you right here. And if I'm getting a message or a notification about something, it's not like blocking your face.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Was watching the Google IO keynote and I mean it was a little bit more like VFX y. It wasn't as much of there obviously wasn't a live demo like this. And it felt like they were centering the HUD like much more in the center of field of vision. And it does feel like the Call of Duty mini map is maybe the the correct paradigm.
Speaker 7:Yep. How the meta displays and the neural band come together to enable some pretty amazing new things. The last thing that I want to show is a glimpse of how this is gonna work with AgenTic AI. And you know, the basic idea here is that, you know, we all have dozens of conversations throughout the day. And if you're anything like me, then in every conversation there are normally like five things that you want to follow-up on.
Speaker 7:You know, maybe there's something you're supposed to do. Maybe there's a conversation that you know, this reminded you that you need to have. Maybe someone just said something that you weren't sure about and wanted to confirm or want more context on. But you know, the thing is it's tough to follow-up while you're in the middle of a conversation. So if you're anything like me, you probably don't and then you just forget a lot of these things.
Speaker 7:So the promise of glasses and AI is that they're gonna help with this over time. So you just start a live AI session, and the glasses are gonna be able to see what you see, hear what you hear, and they're gonna be able to go off and think about it, and then go
Speaker 1:Can you tell if the indicator light's on for
Speaker 7:that? No.
Speaker 8:This one's
Speaker 1:I feel like this is this is gonna be the same discussion as the AI pin. It's always listening to me. There's questions about, you know, can you maybe not have it listening to me right now or I wanna know if it's listening to me. Being really clear on that is is pretty important.
Speaker 9:Hey, Jake. I'm so glad you reached out.
Speaker 15:Hey. Yeah. I was hoping you could help me on this board I'm building for my brother.
Speaker 9:Oh, of course. Hey, Meta. Start Live AI.
Speaker 15:So for the board, my brother needs something with a wide tail so it's easy to catch waves, but the performance of a narrower tail.
Speaker 9:What about a swallowtail shape?
Speaker 8:Oh, that's great. Yeah.
Speaker 9:But maybe three fins
Speaker 14:that make
Speaker 1:Is that accurate? Fact check this. You're the surfing expert. Is that what you would recommend? Hawaii and the When would you use a swallowtail?
Speaker 2:Have the fins by then?
Speaker 1:I have no what I have no idea what any of this means.
Speaker 9:Actually, a few weeks ago, the supplier confirmed that the fins will be here in October.
Speaker 15:That's great news.
Speaker 3:Swallowtail, I usually surface swallowtail
Speaker 1:You do. With a quad setup. What does that mean?
Speaker 3:Or a twin twin fins. Oh. So you got three options. You have a traditional thruster, three fins. Thruster?
Speaker 3:Two
Speaker 1:thruster. Thruster. What's a thruster?
Speaker 3:Three fin setup. Okay. Three fins. Yeah. Then you can surf to that.
Speaker 1:Does no one surf just the normal one fin, the old Single fin. Single fin? That popular anymore? Long board. It's Lindy.
Speaker 1:It's Lindy? Lindy. Still do it?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Okay. Mostly long boarders.
Speaker 1:Man. Hey, man. I what's the Lindy a surf board? Or the trend So
Speaker 7:there you have it. This is the next chapter in the exciting story of the future of computing. And we got Meta Ray Ban display, our first AI glasses with high resolution display, and the Meta Neural Band, the world's first mainstream neural interface.
Speaker 1:The
Speaker 7:glasses are gonna come in two colors. They're gonna come in black and sand. And they also all come with transition lenses. You can wear them indoors. They turn into sunglasses when you go outside.
Speaker 7:And you are going to be able to buy the set for $7.99 in stores where you can get demos as well on September 30. Alright.
Speaker 3:I'm pumped that people can actually go and try it by it immediately. Yeah.
Speaker 1:In what?
Speaker 4:This is
Speaker 3:gonna be big for John Exley. He's gonna be able
Speaker 1:to have the the show off running Thirteen days weeks will be live.
Speaker 3:Exley's gonna be able to
Speaker 1:have the
Speaker 3:show running perpetually on the heads up display.
Speaker 7:Okay. I'm just I already
Speaker 1:I mean, there's a big question about that. Right? Like, obviously Meta's starting with first party apps. WhatsApp, they obviously have a deep integration with Spotify, Instagram. But, oh yeah, I mean, we are streaming live on Instagram.
Speaker 7:Have got the next generation of Ray Ban Meta, including our special edition. You've got the Oakley Meta Houstons that we released in the summer. You've got the Oakley Meta Vanguard for performance. And now you've got the meta Ray Ban display. Those are our fall twenty twenty five glasses.
Speaker 1:You go to meta.com/about right now, the the first header nav item is AI glasses. That's how important they're framing this. Family of apps is like deeper VR's to the right now. AI glasses is the category that they're dominating or wanting to dominate.
Speaker 7:Now we want to help bring about a future where anyone can just dream up any experience that you can think of and then just create it.
Speaker 1:So even though obviously the Reddit Ray Ban display, you can immediately start thinking about other apps that you develop. I mean, you're just saying, like, people watching livestreams, people watching all sorts of stuff, people using essentially third party
Speaker 3:apps. Hotdog, not hot dog.
Speaker 2:Run
Speaker 3:perpetually. Live
Speaker 1:apps. I mean, truly, like, the Cluely team, like, they should wanna integrate with this. Right? There should be a ton of companies that wanna worth
Speaker 3:it's worth noting that their entire thesis at Cluely is like always on AI Yeah. Is undeniably, directionally Yes.
Speaker 1:I think the interesting thing is that, like, if you want to be a platform and you want this to be a platform, you need to be open enough that you are willing to let other companies win in the subcategory. Right? And so the, like, the iPhone came with The whole point
Speaker 3:of this is that Meta wants to be It's gonna translate not Yes. Just a platform Yes. But a a a hardware platform.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right? Exactly. So Meta I think that be somewhat open. You gotta be friendly to developers.
Speaker 1:You gotta let people integrate and build cool experiences on top of it. We haven't gotten a lot of messaging around that yet, but you would have to imagine that it's coming. Right? Yep.
Speaker 3:Because And even in even in gaming. Right? You think about you think about, historical, these these online, offline games like Pokemon GO. Yeah. I do wonder what announcements we'll see in the next
Speaker 1:two weeks around. I feel like gaming is an easy give. It's harder for a tech platform for, like, when when the iPhone says we have a clock app with, like, the flashlight app, you know? Like, people built these different things and then the the The beer app.
Speaker 3:Platform. Apple never made a beer app.
Speaker 1:They didn't make a beer app.
Speaker 3:Missed opportunity.
Speaker 1:But they, yeah. Mean, you you as a platform, you have have to be able to you have to be willing to give up on your first party apps, or at least, like, allow them to compete in, like, a somewhat free market on top of your platform. And and it'll be interesting to see, like, how aggressive developers get about, you know, plugging in and and figuring out where the actual APIs are. How how friendly is the ecosystem? We have
Speaker 7:spent the last couple of years building from scratch to replace the Unity runtime, which is great by the way.
Speaker 3:Think about think about solutions you could you could build a
Speaker 7:Precision is fully optimized for bringing
Speaker 3:Something like Guitar Hero?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:For like the piano, for example, where it's just like heads up display. It's flashing. Yep. Flashing.
Speaker 1:I think that's one of the better selling apps on both like, on on basically all the VR headsets. Yeah. Pass through, you see the actual keys, but then there's virtual elements laid over the keys. Yes. And I've actually I've actually done that with a
Speaker 7:guess called
Speaker 1:I
Speaker 7:What this
Speaker 1:engine can do? I forgot. There was some app that I had that where you basically just put your laptop on top of the keyboard, and then it and then it overlays the keys as they drop down, you can play the piano. Pretty decent. Pretty decent.
Speaker 3:We just got this demo.
Speaker 1:Yes. Yes.
Speaker 3:Got to be in the center of the octagon.
Speaker 1:Woah. Today,
Speaker 7:we are rolling out early access to Hyperscape.
Speaker 1:Did you see the brand that was on the board of the UFC octagon?
Speaker 7:To scan a room and just
Speaker 3:The demo? I don't think it was it had logos.
Speaker 5:And turn
Speaker 1:It didn't, but in there, believe it did. I need to roll it back, but it looked like there was a Lucy logo there. I don't know why I'm hallucinating that, but I'm pretty sure I just saw that. I mean, you guys are We are sponsors, so yeah. Totally possible.
Speaker 7:Now eventually you're gonna be able
Speaker 4:to Yeah
Speaker 1:this is cool. We got this demo earlier.
Speaker 7:And rolls into Horizon and have them all be connected too. Alright. This one, this is our new immersive home rendered entirely in Meta Horizon engine. Visually, it is a is a big step forward from where we have been. There is no eight bit Eiffel Tower here.
Speaker 1:Oh, good. Can You can call that.
Speaker 7:Your home. You can pin different apps to the wall. Like this Instagram app, it automatically renders your posts from creators and friends in three d.
Speaker 1:We're in such a weird time with this, like, the how you actually experience a virtual world. Like, earlier this week, we were talking about Fei Fei Li's World Labs. She's doing Gaussian splatting, Gaussian splatting. And so, you take a bunch of photos, run it through the training run algorithm that runs cooks, and then you can move around in the browser, and it looks extremely photo real until you get like outside of the house too far. And it kind of like yeah.
Speaker 1:It kind of breaks down in this really interesting like bizarre way. And so, they brought that to the the Oculus world, the Quest world, but you can They
Speaker 3:can generate
Speaker 1:space real worlds, like, using a traditional three d pipeline. So there's and I feel like these two technologies are on a collision course, and they because they don't play well together right now, but they're starting to, and we're starting to see demos where you can go take a bunch of photos, it builds the Gaussian splat, and then from there, it generates three d geometry that can be interacted with because
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:In those Gaussian splats, you can move around like a like a camera that's just flying around. But if you pick up a ball and throw it against the wall, it won't bounce. And that and like, obviously, that's prerequisite for basically everything Michael just confirmed Lucy logo on the UFC ring. Yeah. That's crazy.
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 4:I mean working in reality.
Speaker 8:And then
Speaker 1:Other than that, been a while. Coming to
Speaker 3:Nice and work. Coming to
Speaker 1:This happened years ago with my first company. We somehow, was a Super Bowl ad, they needed, it was for Fast and the Furious, and they needed an ad to go on a billboard in Times Square where the cars are racing through. And they couldn't use an actual ad, and so my ad guy knew someone in Hollywood and was like, you can use our brand for free. We'll send you like an image of a billboard that you can Photoshop or you know, VFX into the shot that will go in the Super Bowl ad. We're like, wow, we got our logo in the Super Bowl ad.
Speaker 7:Also it'd really neat to see how many people are using Quest to watch video content. You know, it's just a lot more immersive. So we think that this category, watching video content, is gonna be a huge category, both in virtual reality headsets and on glasses too. So we're launching a new entertainment hub that we are calling Horizon TV. And
Speaker 1:don't think we actually went this time.
Speaker 7:A bunch of great partners to include a bunch of movies and TV and live sports and music.
Speaker 1:I'm talking about this.
Speaker 4:So I'm
Speaker 7:excited to announce announce that Disney plus is coming to Horizon TV and bring along content from Hulu.
Speaker 1:It's it's it's so it's such a basic functionality, but when the Apple Vision Pro launched, I remember seeing you open up the apps and what was the top left app? What was the app that they if you read it like a book, left to right, like, was the app that they want you to open? It wasn't any of the crazy VR video games, three d worlds. It was Apple TV. Because they were like, look, the one thing apparently, the the Apple team they'd the one of the folks they'd hired to work on the Apple Vision Pro came from Dolby Cinema, and they were like, the one thing that we can know that we can deliver is just like a movie watching experience.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:And I and I I feel like there's there's I don't know. Palmer Luckey has that quote about, like, the the war fighter will be wearing a VR headset before the average consumer does because you can spend so much money and you can mandate that they wear it and there's all these different reasons. I I still feel I I might be wrong on this.
Speaker 8:We'll have to
Speaker 1:talk to folks and debate it, but I still feel like there's a world where the where the the VR headset replaces the TV before it replaces the MacBook Pro or, like, the laptop. And I I I know you you I mean, you never watch movies at all. I mean, and also probably have never watched full film in VR. But I feel like the the screen pixel density for the Quest is on a trajectory where it's going to be cinema quality level pretty quickly. But you can't just show up and be like, yeah, of course, you can like log in to this app through the browser.
Speaker 1:Like, it needs to just be there natively for a while.
Speaker 3:One important thing, they're not trying to develop some massive Yeah. Content. No. They're not trying to build a film studio dedicated to Maybe they should.
Speaker 2:Alright. Well, thank you.
Speaker 1:I don't know. I mean, I I honestly think that there's a world where they where they they they should buy Terminator two. They should buy and they should get that pre installed in the in the in the quest when you get one. When you get one, you should just get a free copy of Titanic Yeah. Or Avatar.
Speaker 1:Because one of the first one of the first movies that I watched in three d in VR was Avatar. Because I was like, I want they that's a movie that needs to be experienced in a huge screen in a theater, and VR can actually afford you that. Doesn't quite hit the same when you just watch it on a TV or or your phone. And so actually having a partnership that allows you to deliver that at least in just a few clicks with just a few logins, like, that's better. But I'd like to see a movie preinstalled.
Speaker 13:Passion for three d filmmaking, and it goes back a long ways, two decades, really. Mhmm. Talk to me about where that comes from, why you believe so strongly in this.
Speaker 5:I've spent my filmmaking career trying to really engage people, draw them in, get them involved, get them involved in the story and the characters. I was first exposed to three d filmmaking in 1998, I think, and it was massive film cameras a
Speaker 4:d and
Speaker 5:twenty twenty for a for a ride show. I thought, we gotta be able to do this better.
Speaker 1:Some sort of demo?
Speaker 5:Came along. I was a super early adopter. I think it was George Lucas and then me, and that was in ninety nine, two thousand. And I said, why can't we just slap two of these things side by side and make three d, you know. Well, it turned out to be a lot more complicated than that.
Speaker 5:And so twenty five years later, I'm pleased to say I've got a great three d team and we've we've made it all not only made my films, we've made the three d cameras available to a lot of other filmmakers doing concert films and sports for TV, which didn't last long, but and and, you know, lots of big movies, Ridley Scott, that sort of thing. I just love three d personally, I love authoring in it, I love seeing the end result when it's when it's done properly, and I think it's how we we perceive the world. Why would we throw away 50% of our of our data, you know, and see everything through a single eye? It makes makes no sense to me. And I just see a future which I think can be enabled by the new, you know, devices that that you have, the the Quest series and then some
Speaker 7:of the new stuff hopefully down 20 the five.
Speaker 1:We we get to talk to him, take him through what's happening in the
Speaker 4:I think
Speaker 3:you don't realize the last company is there. Cinematic. Before they release the real product.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Soon. I mean, if the if the the launch video meta continues, it's gonna be like, yeah. Like, we're we're we're excited to launch our product. Like, go to the nearest IMAX theater to see it.
Speaker 1:I mean, there there there's companies that are hit by ticket. Buy a ticket. Hit the box office. Hit the box office. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I I don't know if people notice. Jim James Cameron's like a complete purist when it comes to three d, which means, like, he actually films it with two different cameras.
Speaker 4:I mean
Speaker 1:Because there's a lot of once there was a three d boom, you're like, theaters just realized that you could just charge more money by saying, hey, there's a three d version. But then they realized that they could create a three d film from a two d production. And so they'd film the whole movie normally. Stolen Valor.
Speaker 4:Stolen Valor. Yeah. And then they'd
Speaker 1:go in, and they'd they'd have a whole team of rotoscope artists, which would basically cut out from the image. Okay. Jordy, you're in front of that background. I'm gonna cut you out and put you on a different layer in post, basically. And kind of fill in the background, blurry Dude
Speaker 3:says we're doing it live.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He he does do it live. And and and and with it with, like, AI and stuff, that's gotta be easier to do. But I I would be I would be surprised if if James Cameron is is is putting down the the the super heavy three d IMAX camera anytime He he was also famous for, like, operating the camera himself, and there's all these pictures. I don't know if he does it all the time.
Speaker 1:He think he says that he he he's he's not comfortable doing, like, the full steady cam. Remember? We saw that on the Yeah. On the New York Stock Exchange floor. But but if it's just like a shoulder mounted shot, he will actually be like, I want to manage himself.
Speaker 1:Founder mode.
Speaker 3:Founder mode. And that's Yeah.
Speaker 1:OG. What what is the what is the founder's podcast anecdote about James Cameron? He taught himself visual effects while he was a truck driver. Right?
Speaker 3:This was scary. This was scary. Oh, yes. You were asking about this. He was doing he was reading and driving.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Think the
Speaker 1:story is that he Whatever book was
Speaker 3:whatever book Sanra was reading Yeah. If you it was clear that that I think James was driving trucks while reading books.
Speaker 1:It did make it sound like that. It seemed like it was Who knows? It might have been
Speaker 3:pulled over. Might have been might have been taken a rest.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The story was like he was driving trucks, then on in his free time, he would study visual effects and study cinematography and get up to speed on filmmaking. But Maybe we should stop lying. Hey, maybe, you know, the next James Cameron is probably using the meta Ray Ban displays. They got their books right here, their truck driving.
Speaker 1:They're doing great. That's the future. Let's listen to James Cameron a little bit more.
Speaker 5:Been able to prove that there's more emotional engagement, there's more sense of presence. You know, if you're gonna watch a Blumhouse film, horror film, your fight flight reflex is more engaged. Yeah. Right? If hopefully, if you're watching
Speaker 1:One of my first VR experiences was with, which one? The it was back when it was Oculus. It was post acquisition, but it was the first consumer version. Maybe maybe it was actually developer kit two, DK two. It's this huge block on your face, and you had to hook it up to a PC.
Speaker 1:It was it it was not it would not just run by itself, and I connected it to Half Life two. And Half Life two is action game shooter, not too scary, but there's this one level, Ravenholm, where there's where it gets really dark and zombies start coming out and jump scaring you. And I remember turning around seeing a zombie run at me and actually, like, jumping out of my seat. And I played this game before, and, like, the reaction to a two d shooter horror film is just not it just doesn't, like, scare you at that much. It just doesn't hit like that.
Speaker 1:But but in VR, it was it was something pretty pretty
Speaker 5:crazy. I think our task the reason that we've we've partnered, and it's under, know, if I if
Speaker 4:I can
Speaker 3:Chad, can we get a risk check?
Speaker 5:Morgan and Kevin Konten and Sarah Melichen. And who?
Speaker 3:James Cameron.
Speaker 1:What's he got?
Speaker 8:Yeah. They're there.
Speaker 1:Wait. Is that on here?
Speaker 5:Right now is to get showrunners because, by the way, I think episodic television, short form, long form, I think that's the low hanging fruit that people have historically ignored because so much three d content was just made for movies. I'm not talking about Avatar. I can't I can't make movies fast enough to feed this pipeline. We do it at Lightstorm Vision, my three d company, is we build cameras and systems and and networking and tools to give to other film
Speaker 3:He looks great. He looks like he's got a few more, at least a few more avatars.
Speaker 1:Few more Founders podcast episodes.
Speaker 3:Only a small fee. A small fee. Job's not finished.
Speaker 5:Other other filmmakers and showrunners and and broadcasters
Speaker 3:John, BMX bikers are lining up They're going? Cramp. Oh. That guy's got, like, an Evel Knievel Two. Helmet.
Speaker 1:So there's two back there, there are two half pipes that go like this. Do you think it's possible to transfer from one to the other?
Speaker 3:The transfer the angle makes that not possible.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Right? It wouldn't be possible.
Speaker 3:Because it seems too crazy. Ramp is actually coming back Yeah. This
Speaker 13:way. And and yeah.
Speaker 3:But but there is a section that they have to clear Yeah. That we're both looking at. It looked like a death trap.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. It's been pretty Who wants Pretty crazy.
Speaker 5:And it's not only just bringing down the hardware, but it's making the hardware smarter. There are a lot of software solutions.
Speaker 3:And if anybody is tuning into this live from Meta Connect, just know that you can walk up here Yes. Say hello to yourself.
Speaker 5:Anywhere, and it will take care of, you know, the decision making around, what makes good stereo, what makes it easy on our eyes, easy on our brains, where we're not getting eye strain and all those things. So it's taken us twenty five years to figure out the kind of algorithm for that.
Speaker 3:It is worth noting that
Speaker 5:build it into this
Speaker 3:this time last year, we were both having the conversation
Speaker 5:enable that you know, I can't make this
Speaker 3:brothers have had in the past, which is
Speaker 5:producing
Speaker 3:we should
Speaker 5:Tens of thousands of
Speaker 3:Start a podcast. Yes. This was the we should start a podcast Yes, it was. Months.
Speaker 13:Yeah. And you
Speaker 1:think about
Speaker 13:going from like, you know, auto focus Here
Speaker 2:we are.
Speaker 13:You have the ability to inter ocular distance Yep. Can be an automatic Autostereo. Auto stereo. So, yeah, this is one of the things that really, I think, has made this partnership so great, and and you get a sense, think, of it from the two of us. We're refusing about the partnership, is you are somebody who's had
Speaker 1:It is crazy. There hasn't been more of a three d Start with the products. Three d movie push. Story you want to tell
Speaker 13:and how you want to experience that story.
Speaker 1:Probably because of the the display resolution.
Speaker 13:Avatar idea.
Speaker 1:Does does that matter? I mean, you have if you have the catalog, why not distribute it widely? Right? Like, the avatar's been shown on free TV with commercials. Also been shown in theaters at super expensive prices.
Speaker 13:Hey, yeah.
Speaker 4:If you
Speaker 1:got three d. Right? Yeah. But, yeah. I think it goes back to the VR companies really focusing on like the the long term promise of what's possible with VR.
Speaker 1:Immersive worlds, huge video games, but the yeah. I mean,
Speaker 13:you have to you have to
Speaker 1:get the install base up to actually get that. I don't think you need to get the install base up to make three d the the catalog of great three d cinema a fantastic experience on on on a headset. So I would I would be
Speaker 13:Like, it's starting
Speaker 4:to feel
Speaker 13:like it's picking up momentum now in the hardware, but also in
Speaker 5:the content side. You are willing a future into existence that you saw clearly. And this field this moment in history feels a lot to me like it did back in the very in the early nineties, late eighties and early nineties when CG was first manifesting itself. And, oh, you're gonna replace actors and it'll never look real and and, you know, analog is the answer, and that's why I founded a company called Digital Domain. I wanted to you know, it was it was revolutionary in its moment
Speaker 1:Founder. Today
Speaker 5:and it's ubiquitous today. So I've actually seen historically in my my own life experience how you can actually make massive change. And, you know, and then that led to three d. Okay. Everybody accepts the fact that we go to digital movie theaters now.
Speaker 5:Right? Obvious. Right? Except that when the digital technology existed, it wasn't adopted right away. It took three d to get the theaters to convert to digital
Speaker 13:took production. You. We Well, were in the middle of that. Release. We were Unless they updated the theaters.
Speaker 5:Yes. And it was actually talking to the team at at Texas Instruments that developed the chip that made That's right. Projection possible and saying, embed in your servers and in your electronics the ability to carry carry two image streams. And because they did that, then then digital projection just rolled out and now it's now it's everywhere other than the occasional arthouse someplace with a 35 millimeter print. But when you've lived through enough of these revolutions, you start to see them coming as a wave like a good surfer.
Speaker 5:I know you surf.
Speaker 12:That's
Speaker 5:right. I watch it from the beach. You watch it from underwater. I watch it from underwater.
Speaker 13:Listen. We are we've got something one more exciting piece coming. I wanna thank you again for coming to connect. It's really our honor to have you. I can't wait to check out Avatar Fire and Ash as I'm sure everyone here will agree when it hits the theaters in December 19.
Speaker 3:World Avatar, we have our first guest on the way over.
Speaker 13:As a special surprise, we have an exclusive never before seen stunning three d clip from Avatar Fire and Ash for everyone to check out in demo stations here for attendees and available on all Meta Quest devices in Horizon TV for a limited viewing window. So thank you all, and thank you James, and trust the process. This is all gonna be very exciting.
Speaker 1:Here we go. Take these out. So we have our first hands on live with the meta Ray Ban displays.
Speaker 3:Can't even tell.
Speaker 1:It is remarkable.
Speaker 3:You, James. So close.
Speaker 1:You couldn't tell it all.
Speaker 3:Right? You you because when we walked in to get the first step
Speaker 1:they were smart glasses. You assumed that they
Speaker 3:were camera lenses. But I didn't know they were the display model.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's pretty remarkable. That's They've really shrunk it down so much. And I mean, we tried Ryan, and Ryan is blocky. It looks like a Yep.
Speaker 1:It it doesn't look like a full consumer product. And obviously, when they announced it, they were messaging, hey, we're gonna shrink this down.
Speaker 3:And the narrow band
Speaker 1:is light. Yeah. I mean, people are already wearing bands like this all the time. I see more and more people wearing two devices on their wrists. People are very comfortable I with
Speaker 2:don't learn.
Speaker 7:Alright. We've got an after party over at Meta's platform. Diplo's gonna play.
Speaker 3:There you go.
Speaker 7:Please join me in welcoming Diplo.
Speaker 1:Nice work. Well, we are moving over to our first guest of the stream, Chris Cox, the chief product officer
Speaker 3:But
Speaker 1:at Meta.
Speaker 7:People are also starting to learn that you're a big runner, and you've got the the whole Diplore Run Club. Exactly.
Speaker 8:So what do
Speaker 7:you think? Should we should we run over to I'm ready
Speaker 4:for a
Speaker 7:run right now? And take these things for a spin? Absolutely. Alright. Let's do it.
Speaker 2:Meta, play b right there.
Speaker 9:From star to Here?
Speaker 1:For a run. And I think that I believe they're gonna run right past us. So we will say See that. We will wave to them when they run over here.
Speaker 3:Going for a light jog before hopping on the show. Love to see it. Fantastic. A warm up. Great.
Speaker 1:And we are ready for our first guest of the show. Welcome to the stream. Chris Cox.
Speaker 3:Let's do it. Thanks so
Speaker 1:much for hopping on. How you doing? Welcome. This is Jordy here. Grab a headset.
Speaker 1:Here you go.
Speaker 4:Shades or not?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Please. Throw them on. Throw them on.
Speaker 3:Whatever you hard to wear over the head under the headset,
Speaker 4:but Okay.
Speaker 3:You you can make it work. Nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Which ones are you grabbing? What
Speaker 12:I brought my own. I got these navy.
Speaker 1:What are you daily driving? Like
Speaker 7:the navy. Great. And they're a
Speaker 3:transition Here, pull up the mic a little bit. Nice. We can hear you. There you go. Great.
Speaker 3:Can you hear me? Loud and clear. Sweet.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what is what what is your organization look like right now? I mean, you've been at Meta for twenty years. Right? Almost twenty years.
Speaker 1:Almost twenty. Congratulations. Yep. I mean, it's a massive company. How how do you fit into today?
Speaker 12:So I'm the CPO, chief product officer. I lead the family of apps. So that's Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Messenger, Threads Yep. Edits. Working very closely with Alex and Matt, building out all the AI stuff that we're doing.
Speaker 12:Also lead our privacy team, the team that thinks about protecting user data.
Speaker 1:Yep. How has your frame of mind changed in the age of AI around the trade off, the decisions around, how you build the products?
Speaker 3:It's a new era for product guys.
Speaker 12:Yeah. It is. I mean, it's changing these days. It's changing week like, one week at a time. Yeah.
Speaker 12:That's how much is changing. How people engineer prototypes can now
Speaker 4:be
Speaker 12:done. Stuff can be done in hours that used to take weeks. And part of what we're trying to do for the company is just encourage everybody, even if they know what they're doing, to take risks on trying to do things differently and to learn as quickly as they can. All the way down to the way infrastructure is built, the way bugs are detected, the way optimizations are made to ranking, for example. We've been ranking news feeds since 02/2006.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 12:We're now starting to deploy agents to think about how to do that themselves and already seeing pretty interesting wins in terms of just making the experience better for people. So I would say it's changing very rapidly, and, it requires a a huge amount of constant attention to make sure that we're staying on the edge.
Speaker 3:And what about at the product level for consumers and how you think about, like, product quality? Sure. Historically, it was easier to be like, does a button work or not? Yep. And now we're in an era where AI is probabilistic.
Speaker 3:You don't have the same ability to have consistency. How has that kind of shifted your thinking?
Speaker 12:A lot of it I mean, AI can be used to detect edge cases a lot more easily, which is really important. AI can be used to scale a judgment to lots more types of people and lots more languages, for example. One of my favorite features on the glasses is live translations. Yep. And then one of my favorite features we've started to roll out on Instagram is is captioning and lip syncing
Speaker 1:Sure.
Speaker 7:So that you
Speaker 12:can take any video creator's language and translate it into the native language of the viewer along with lip syncing. That's This to me is, like, very, very fundamental if you think about what it unlocks. Yeah. It's kind of like Tower of Babel level phenomenal to take any voice and and translate it into the voice of the listener. So it scales the kind of thing that's just pure human connection, but it does it in a way that's instantaneous and could let somebody who speaks a a relatively small language family experience the rest of the Internet or experience the speaker of anybody out there.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It'll be interesting to think about new superstars, Internet superstars starting out default global just because they're able to just be instantly translated across the entire world.
Speaker 1:Exactly. Yeah. I mean, you said something about you you said you could scale a what was that? A a resolution or something? I forgot that.
Speaker 1:You you had some word for it, but but I'm interested to know how you think about the trade offs between, like, rethinking products entirely Mhmm. From the ground up in AI native ways versus, like, there are so many amazing, like, unlocks with, like, captioning and just translation just, like, it it like, we we take them for granted, but you gotta go chop the wood and actually get them out into the products. How are you thinking about balancing those? Are there, like, two different teams where you're kind of thinking about a greenfield project that could be, an entirely v two? Or or do you see yourself as, like, iterating towards whatever that next version of the product looks like?
Speaker 12:We we do a lot of both.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:We basically ask every team to have a portfolio to make sure they have something that's gonna they're gonna deliver in the next year. Okay. And then something that's gonna come three years from now Sure. That's much riskier, that's in the prototype phase where you're playing around with ideas. You're literally prototyping something that doesn't quite work.
Speaker 12:If it does work, you're not thinking far enough in advance. Yep. We do this for every single part of the business. So WhatsApp does that. Does that.
Speaker 12:Our ads team does that. And that way, you're sort of constantly having a product pipeline of things that require a lot more risk taking. What you're starting to see now is that the farther out stuff, you you can can code up a lot more quickly. You can you can play around with a lot more quickly. And then the near term stuff, you're able to scale what I was saying before is you can take something that works for one set of users and just scale it out a lot more quickly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How are you thinking about talent internally? We've seen a couple highly entrepreneurial folks join Yeah. To build MSL. Mhmm.
Speaker 1:What does that look like on the product side? Meta has like a really rich history of acquiring Mhmm. And and bringing, you know, some of the greatest founders into the organization, turning them loose, growing them into huge products. Is that something you wanna continue on the product side? Is it something that's more important in the age of AI?
Speaker 1:How are thinking about that?
Speaker 12:Yeah. We've had going back to the very earliest days of the company, like I was one of my earlier jobs was building up the product management team and the way we did it and this is before product management was really a thing. It wasn't a major discipline in software. Yeah. So I couldn't go out there and find a lot of experienced product managers aside from Google was the only company that was like still standing from the .com.
Speaker 13:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's crazy to think that only a little while ago there wasn't young people that were like, I wanna be a product
Speaker 2:manager.
Speaker 12:It just didn't exist.
Speaker 3:It wasn't
Speaker 1:a path.
Speaker 3:This is
Speaker 12:So this is February, 02/2008. And so the way we did it was like, let's go find the best small startups and like see if they'd wanna work with us. So this is Brett Taylor
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 12:Yep. Who is leading FriendFeed. Yep. This is Gokul Rajaram, one of the sort of founders of Google AdSense who is leading a team called ChaiLabs. Yep.
Speaker 12:This is Blake Ross who built Firefox. Yep. It was just these like legendary for me, it was like these are legendary people. Yeah.
Speaker 1:We were
Speaker 12:all like 25. They were too. But we part of the reason that was such an interesting looking back is like we had a lot of founders
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:At the company. And we loved that the energy that a founder brings, the entrepreneurial energy is is really powerful, especially at a company that is in white space. Like social media was brand new. Smartphones were kind of brand new. So you want as many people as you can, frankly, that can operate or like comfortable being at a company and dealing with like, okay, I need to like actually check a bunch
Speaker 7:of boxes Yeah.
Speaker 12:To deliver something to billions of people. I can't just do that in a weekend. But you want the sort of aspirational just like energy of a founder. So we do acquisitions. We also are frequently seeing people leave and go found a company and then often come back.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 12:And sort of understanding sort of all the goodness of big companies and all the goodness of the outside world and trying to get the balance right between the two.
Speaker 1:I couldn't Oh, sorry.
Speaker 3:What are the what are the buckets? Like, how are you thinking about the you know, we talk about super intelligence, we talk about AI. It's it's extremely broad. It means things for different people. How do you think about sort of the categories that that that AI can deliver value in?
Speaker 3:I can think of, like, pure utility, like Mhmm. Summarizing a message in WhatsApp. Mhmm. I think I can think of entertainment. I can think of connection.
Speaker 3:But what's your framework in terms of like making AI, you know, integrating it through meta platforms and and just making it valuable for end users versus this abstract kind of concept?
Speaker 12:Yeah. So, I mean, just thinking about the displays and the wearables we lock today, a lot of this is gonna be about something that is a is with you all day long. When we talk about personal super intelligence, it's basically this idea that your computer should understand what you care about. It should understand what you're thinking about today. Life.
Speaker 12:Your values. Yeah. What you're trying to get done, what you're interested in, the people you care about. Like that's what a that's what a a super intelligent assistant that you could design for yourself would know. And then when you open Instagram or you open Facebook, everything you see there should be responsive to like your Yeah.
Speaker 12:Interest and values. And like, if you think about things from that perspective, we're a pretty long way away. Yeah. I'm still seeing things that, like, may not be interesting to me today or were interesting to me weeks ago. It's not, like, up to date to the second with, like, the way that people are.
Speaker 12:Like, if you have a really close friend who knows what you're reading today, like, they'll talk about today, they'll talk about the news today. And so for me, it's just taking the idea of what our apps do today. They connect you with people, they connect you with your interests, they help you create content, and just bringing the barrier of all of those things down. So that to me is like how you extend the product forwards. And then with these with these glasses, I mean, really once you start wearing them, you do start to have a sense that this could replace a lot of the like pulling your phone out of handwriting.
Speaker 12:Yeah. And and and that type of thing just feels like
Speaker 3:Here we go. Got Mark.
Speaker 1:We got dip line, Mark. Running around. There we go. Look at that. There we go.
Speaker 1:They did it.
Speaker 3:Credit for Mark for going on a run before Sure. Jumping on
Speaker 12:his right after a keynote.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much for coming on the show. Great talking to
Speaker 4:you soon.
Speaker 3:It's good to meet you guys. Yeah. Have a
Speaker 1:good rest of your day. Cheers. Really quickly, let me tell you about fall. Fal.ai is the website, the world's best generative image, video, and audio models all in one place, developing fine tune models with serverless GPUs and on demand clusters. Our next guest is Adam Messeri, the head of Instagram.
Speaker 1:We will bring him down. He's an app you've probably used before. Yes. You're probably watching TVPN live on Instagram right now. We are streaming live on Instagram for the first
Speaker 8:time ever.
Speaker 3:Is a regular thing now.
Speaker 1:Yes. Very excited for our vertical layout. Well, we will bring on Adam's incredibly sharp. We're swapping things out. And the run has concluded.
Speaker 1:We're taking photos. And we are bringing on new products. Here is the open. Here's that case that you saw. I can't believe it's so
Speaker 3:cool that it holds up flat.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Here we go. Hey. We're ready. Let's bring them on.
Speaker 1:Adam, how you doing? Here. We're gonna have you put put on this headset. There you go.
Speaker 2:Can't hear me.
Speaker 1:Can't you? No. We can't hear you yet.
Speaker 3:Barely. Oh, we're Montana's noisy, man.
Speaker 2:Like that you guys are talking to me before you can hear me.
Speaker 1:Good to meet you. Hi. I'm John.
Speaker 2:Jordan. Nice to meet you guys.
Speaker 3:Welcome to
Speaker 4:the show.
Speaker 2:What's happening? There's people running back.
Speaker 1:Yes. The run club, I believe, has complete concluded. Zuckerberg's right over there now.
Speaker 3:It barely broke a sweat.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Was and dip dip
Speaker 1:low. Yeah. Mac dip low's here. Yeah.
Speaker 8:I was like, okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's cool. Yes. Another day
Speaker 3:at the office.
Speaker 1:Alright. Take us through take us through how the how the glasses play with Instagram over the long term. We we saw we saw a demo where Mark Zuckerberg was it seemed like he was live streaming. Is that something that's gonna come to the glasses, you think?
Speaker 2:Yeah. I think so. In general, I mean, Instagram is about trying to inspire creativity and having people connect over that creativity. We started as fun square photos with big filters and ridiculous borders that were kind of fun as in a way to help people create things that they wanted to share. Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I think in a world where you can take pictures with things like these or livestream what's going on and when something special is happening in your life, we love the idea of bringing that to Instagram.
Speaker 1:The the platform feels like remarkably stable, super feature complete. There aren't a lot of, like, feature requests that people are, like, angry about and, oh, why don't you have this feature? It's got a lot.
Speaker 2:Yeah. The critical feedback comes in other forms.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. You still get that. I'm sure. But
Speaker 2:You ever check my comments? My question is like,
Speaker 1:there there's two things going on in AI.
Speaker 3:Okay. Put on a hazmat suit before I go in there.
Speaker 2:Yeah. No. Yeah. I mean, I go into the request once a week. I feel like it's important.
Speaker 2:I usually feeling pretty poor about myself. Try to refresh, get a good night's sleep, shake it off.
Speaker 1:But there's a there's a ton of stuff going on in generative AI. What about in core AI? Do you feel like there's still room to get gains out of core AI models just on better recommendation feeds with bigger models, bigger training runs? What is
Speaker 2:the gap to just getting people better recommendations? Absolutely. There's a number of different ways if you wanna go into the tech side of things about how these frontier models can change how we do or how we recommend content, how we understand people's interests. One big pillar of that is content understanding. Mhmm.
Speaker 2:These omni models, these models that can work across text, video, and photos, they can understand things in much more nuance and complicated ways. Before, if we wanted to build a classifier that understood what something was about, we build a different classifier for every topic. Yep. We can only come up with so many topics. Now we can look at these not that used to be these pieces of technology that we couldn't actually read directly as people and we can use LMs to make sense of them and we can say, oh, these two videos are in the same place on a map.
Speaker 2:Now we know that is vintage arsenal nineties highlights. Yeah. Like, we never could have do that before. So that empowers things on finding content to help people connect to that that that it's gonna empower things on giving people more control over the recommendations and their experience on Instagram,
Speaker 3:these other
Speaker 2:apps. There's all sorts of really compelling opportunities that I think are gonna come to fruition over the next couple of years.
Speaker 1:On the Gen AI side, do you have a view on how much AI content we're gonna be seeing? People like to complain about AI slop, but I I've seen some incredible AI generated videos. I'm sure we've all seen Harry Potter, Balenciaga. It clearly still had a human element in it. It wasn't just make me something that gets likes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There was a human touch that it was enabled by AI technology. Right?
Speaker 2:Well, I think you're gonna see, like, with all other technology that there's gonna be good and there's gonna be bad. Yeah. And the most interesting content that I've seen that has been generated with our AI or AI has been part of creating it have had a point of view that has come from a person. Sure. Do I think what you're gonna see is, you know, we're gonna see, yes, more purely generated AI content grow over time.
Speaker 2:And some of that is gonna have real risks, things like deep fakes trying to what's happening. Some of it's gonna be really inspiring and trying to help you, you know, you can imagine things like creating tutorials to learn how to do things that you couldn't do before and a creator might not have been able to do that. Yep. Now they can use the tools to do just that. I also think you're gonna see a lot of content that is sort of hybrid.
Speaker 2:Yeah. We don't talk about this a lot because we're more focused on the extremes.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:AI can help people just clean up photos, clean up videos, make every clip in a reel, the same lighting. Yep. There's a lot of basic stuff that is actually I think super important opportunity for creators.
Speaker 3:My my view it's like, if you have a a if you've built an audience that cares about you and cares about your content today, you're gonna do really well over the next ten years. You're be able to make more content. You're gonna be able to make better content. And then the exciting thing is the entirely new categories of people that never thought to make something because it was really hard or they never thought to learn. Right?
Speaker 3:I mean, beauty of Instagram early on and even Facebook was like Facebook, you could just type out a message and hit return
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And post it. Instagram, you could take a picture, post it. Maybe you add a filter, maybe you don't. And it's just about reducing that friction. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Question I have is like, how do you think about the push and pull between keeping Instagram you know, I I feel like in your Instagram. Comments keeping Instagram, Instagram. Right?
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:We think about, you know, we think about pro you know, people have an idea of what an app is, and then there's constantly pressure to to add new things and do new things. But how do how do you think about that push and pull internally?
Speaker 2:So I think about our I our reason to be is about inspiring creativity and helping people connect over that creativity. I see an amazing piece of stand up that I know is Yeah. That really hit hard with my brother, I send it to him, and then we talk about it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You're seeing the shares are higher than likes and some on a lot of reels.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So it's about sharing reels. It's about responding to stories. It's about connecting over your interests. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Now, how people do that on Instagram is going to have to change as how people communicate with their friends and how people entertain themselves inevitably changes. Mhmm. Often, people think of Instagram as a feed of square photos, but if we didn't evolve, if we didn't add video, if we didn't add stories, if we didn't add DMs, if we didn't add reels, that we wouldn't be here today.
Speaker 1:You wouldn't be
Speaker 2:asking me any questions. And so we have to figure out how do we evolve forward, but stay true to our core identity, to our reason to exist in the first place. That's a balance. Sometimes we get it right. Sometimes we get it wrong.
Speaker 2:We push too hard sometimes. I've been on a fair amount of that feedback and I appreciate it. But like I said, if we didn't evolve, we would just slowly become irrelevant.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for taking the time to talk to us.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Good to meet you guys.
Speaker 4:Thank you.
Speaker 2:Get you guys a little bit less on x and a little bit more on
Speaker 1:Oh, we're coming over. We're live streaming on IT right now.
Speaker 2:Oh, I know.
Speaker 1:We are growing.
Speaker 2:I know. But we're gonna
Speaker 3:be in your comments
Speaker 2:section, guys.
Speaker 1:Yes. We're working
Speaker 2:on it. I want the heat. I want the real feedback. I wanna know what we're doing well and what we're not.
Speaker 1:For sure. For sure. Alright. Yeah. We'll talk we'll talk soon.
Speaker 3:Thanks so much. Thanks for coming on.
Speaker 1:Don't forget to take the headset
Speaker 8:off before you walk away.
Speaker 2:I just, you know, take this. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Call the whole set.
Speaker 5:I think
Speaker 8:it's a good look.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Working on a good look.
Speaker 3:Alright. Fantastic, Aquanaut too.
Speaker 4:I got
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's gonna beautiful. Oh. Excellent taste. Good eye.
Speaker 1:Let's tell you about graphite dot dev code review for the age of AI. Graphite helps teams on GitHub ship higher quality software faster. And our next guest is Connor Hayes. Not h a y s. He's got an e, h a y e s.
Speaker 3:Put an e in there. He's the
Speaker 1:Head of threads. Welcome to the show. How you doing? Throw this headset on.
Speaker 4:Nice meeting
Speaker 3:you guys. To meet you. Throw this on so we can hear you.
Speaker 11:This is crazy
Speaker 10:out here.
Speaker 1:This is a crazy event. Thank you for having us. We
Speaker 3:wanted BMX to riders are in the air.
Speaker 1:Everyone's going. Well, you
Speaker 11:guys are in headset. You're not like
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Yeah. No. When you're out We're locked in. Headset?
Speaker 4:We're locked in. Environment here.
Speaker 1:So yeah. I mean, everyone knows Threads. Take us through, like, what is the scale of the platform? It feels like it's massive. Where is the biggest success of threads?
Speaker 1:Because, you know, we've heard about other platforms. You know, Instagram famously started with runners. Where's the OC and Run Club? Yeah. Where's in where's where's threads really found its footing?
Speaker 11:Yeah. We recently announced that we crossed the 400,000,000 money back
Speaker 4:in park,
Speaker 11:so hit the screaming eagle, maybe. I don't know.
Speaker 1:That's great.
Speaker 11:And we've done really well, actually, globally. So one of the main ways that people find out about threads is through promotions that we do in Instagram and Facebook. We take the content that's most popular in threads and Yeah. Show people there.
Speaker 13:Yep.
Speaker 11:So basically, anywhere where those platforms are big, we've been able to attract people to threads.
Speaker 1:Feeding back and forth. Yeah.
Speaker 10:Sorry. Adam is here.
Speaker 4:We're gonna
Speaker 3:end up on Instagram now. I appreciate it. Hey. It's threads time.
Speaker 11:Japan, Korea, The US, India, Brazil. Yeah. It's pretty much a global platform at this point.
Speaker 3:We Alex Heath, who just Alex Heath is Yeah. 50 k
Speaker 1:on He's here. We're gonna hang out with him. Yeah. Sorry.
Speaker 11:We ran into him earlier today. Congrats, Alex, on his he's he went independent today.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He did. Yeah. Yesterday. But yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That was great.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Talk about talk about kind of the different kind of inflection points because obviously, there's the the big launch. Right? But it's like any like building any new products, it's a roller coaster. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And it feels like you guys are are really figuring things out. I find myself in the I I certainly am a DAU now because I'm just constantly, even if it's not necessarily like muscle memory to open threads, I'm getting I'm finding
Speaker 1:I see it on Instagram. I'm getting a point. Yeah.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I mean, yeah.
Speaker 11:One of my, kind of philosophies as a product person is anytime you can launch something with a bootstrap, do it. Yeah. I think bootstrapping off of Instagram was like a 100% the right thing to do in the beginning. We had this really big pop. I think it kind of established the platform, got a lot of people in there.
Speaker 11:But I think what you quickly find out if you were using threads at that time versus now is that not all the people that are best at Instagram are gonna be best at threads. So the format is so different. So we had to spend a lot of time kind of getting the threads native people onto the platform and then also helping users build a thread specific graph. Yeah. Yep.
Speaker 11:So that has been kind of the last year and it feels like we're starting to break through and and have some power users that really love the product now.
Speaker 1:It's so fascinating because I feel like Meta has done a few of these greenfield projects before, Facebook camera. There's been other apps that eventually got rolled into Instagram. It was this always the plan? Is this surprising internally? Am I just out of the loop here?
Speaker 1:Like, it is it is unique story. Right?
Speaker 11:I was on the team that that, like, helped build threads in the beginning. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Took a little detour.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 11:Yeah. But we actually debated really, really heavily in the Should
Speaker 1:it just go on Instagram?
Speaker 11:Right. And that that was actually my original pitch
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 11:I'll admit, as like, that's the ultimate bootstrap.
Speaker 1:Yeah. No. It makes a ton of sense. It's like, you've added stories, you added reels, like, there's been so many times when Instagram was a fertile ground for that. Like, why what is fundamental about you need a separate app?
Speaker 11:To his credit, I mean, Mark was the person that pushed us the hard
Speaker 8:I on
Speaker 11:think his point of view is that the use case, and and I think over time, it it ends up being distinct enough that you kinda want it to feel like a separate space. Sure. If Threads is gonna be the place where it's like fresh perspectives on what's happening now in the world Yep. That's a little bit different than like what's the most entertaining and visually appealing content? Yeah.
Speaker 11:It's reading versus
Speaker 1:I It's a reading network.
Speaker 3:When when something happens in the world Yeah. You want to go to where things are that that bad news is breaking and being discussed. Right? The discussion is key. Yes.
Speaker 11:And I do think it's
Speaker 3:a just, you know, wildly different thing. You open Instagram and you might be seeing what Instagram thinks is what you're gonna be most interested in that moment, not the story that just broke. And so I think that it's like
Speaker 11:a distinctly different ecosystem. We actually got criticized for this. There was like, you know, Casey was making fun of us a bunch in the beginning because it's like, the threads feed would be showing him things that were like a week old or six days old. That was a lot of because we built on top of Instagram tech.
Speaker 1:Oh, interesting. So that
Speaker 11:the, you know, Instagram pushes for timeliness with the content. But if there's something that's awesome that you missed six days ago, and it's not about some breaking news thing, you are fine seeing a funny video that was put six So days actually, a lot of our thread specific relevance investment over the last couple years has been training for timeliness. Yeah. Trying to get it to feel really fresh, and you actually create a constraint for yourself because the pool of content that you can pull from is then inherently smaller. How big is the threads team?
Speaker 11:I don't know if I'm able to share that.
Speaker 1:Well, Adam most relative
Speaker 11:to the to the rest
Speaker 7:of the company.
Speaker 11:It seems like a small but
Speaker 3:mighty Clean and scrappy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Adam was pitching us on live streaming on Instagram. We're live streaming on Instagram right now. Is live streaming gonna come to threads? Talk to me about the where the product goes because pretty soon you could build all the Instagram features, you know, if you're not careful.
Speaker 11:Sometimes you go into an interview and you know that there's
Speaker 1:They're good at asking.
Speaker 4:That you can't answer.
Speaker 1:This was the one. Okay.
Speaker 11:I mean, listen. I'm we we just talked about you want threads to be the place where it feels live. Sure. What people are saying about what's happening right now. We just have such a long list of basic stuff that has to get done.
Speaker 11:I've been like this catchphrase that I've been giving to the team is like, be the app that ships. Yep. You can come up with we could sit here for, like, two minutes and come up with a dozen features that are missing, making replies better, making notifications work really well, like getting the profile to to feel really good, getting search better, trending. Yeah. So those are the things that we're gonna be focused on in the near term, but I I do think it'll probably there will come a day Well,
Speaker 1:if you launch it, call us first. We'll be the first one on.
Speaker 11:I We'd love to. Promise you and commit to you that that is what
Speaker 1:Thank you. Well, thank you for on the show.
Speaker 3:Alright. Thank you.
Speaker 1:We appreciate you, Alfon.
Speaker 4:Great to
Speaker 3:meet you.
Speaker 11:Thank you guys
Speaker 7:so much.
Speaker 1:We'll talk to you soon.
Speaker 8:Yeah. Thanks.
Speaker 1:Have a good one. We'll see you on threads. If you want AI to handle your customer support threads, head over to fin.ai, the number one AI agent for customer service. Our next guest is Roberto Nixon, fantastic Instagram creator, friend of mine. We've been DMing for years now talking about tech.
Speaker 1:He's he he does these incredibly polished Instagram reels. Please. Hell, he's inspiring out the meta Ray Bans.
Speaker 5:There we go.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the stream. How you doing, man? Good to see you.
Speaker 3:Good. Good to see you.
Speaker 1:Good to see you.
Speaker 12:Throw the headset
Speaker 3:on so we can hear you.
Speaker 1:There you go. Oh, beautiful.
Speaker 4:My mind made it. I'm on TBPN. Yes. Let's go.
Speaker 1:Long long overdue. Great to have you. Take us through your reaction to the event today. Look. The the the one
Speaker 4:thing I'll say is you guys know in tech Yeah. Every couple years is like a can you curse on the show? We don't,
Speaker 1:but you can.
Speaker 4:There's a holy crap moment. Okay. Every few years in tech. Right? Like, you know, iPhone four retina screen.
Speaker 4:Yeah. The EMG band, the electromyography band, the the metaneural band that comes with the new metaray band display feels like magic. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:It's so natural. Try it.
Speaker 4:I I think try it.
Speaker 3:So we've demoed it a couple times. I was shocked that I picked it up. It just felt like
Speaker 5:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It feels like using a phone with no phone.
Speaker 7:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like a crazy thing.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And and so I tried to lash you with Orion. Mhmm. But Orion has eye tracking. This one doesn't.
Speaker 4:So it's a little bit more precise. And the new pinch in Yeah. The volume I'm talking about
Speaker 2:the volume of files.
Speaker 4:My that's when I was like That's great. You know, my my so that was my favorite part of the after the keynote, but I'm also a sucker for those new Oakleys.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So I know. I know. Well, talk to me about just, Meta Ray Bans as a creator tool. We saw after the iPhone keynote, mister Beast said, I'm going all in.
Speaker 1:All my cameras are gonna be iPhone in 17 pros or something. Do you think this will be a daily tool that you use in creating content? Obviously, you're still gonna use cinematic footage Yep. For a lot of the stuff that you do, but how does this fit into actually creating content?
Speaker 4:I would say for everybody, it's different. Yeah. Here's my thing a lot of times when it comes to Instagram. Some people get frustrated by this. I think personally it's kinda cool.
Speaker 4:But sometimes the process gets more love than the art, than the final result. Yeah. So me, when I rock these, it's always BTS. It's always POV. Sure.
Speaker 4:So I put out like a piece of art, let's call it, like a video. And then I'm showing the process behind it, the POV Yeah. From the glasses. That combination is killer. So you get two pieces pieces of content for one idea.
Speaker 4:So that personally, that's how I use them. I think live streaming is another great use case.
Speaker 1:Very good.
Speaker 4:So but I think every creator's right is using them for different things.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. We gotta have you back and hang out more.
Speaker 4:Thanks for time, Philip.
Speaker 1:We can talk so much more about the creative economy and whatnot. Alright. Have a good one. Have fun out there. We have our next guest, Alex
Speaker 3:jump off.
Speaker 1:Coming on to the stream. Let me tell you about ProFound. Try profound.com. Get your brand mentioned in LLM searches. Reach millions of consumers who are using AI to discover new products and brands.
Speaker 1:Alex, good to see you. What up? Congratulations on the new gig.
Speaker 3:My man.
Speaker 1:How are doing?
Speaker 10:How are you?
Speaker 3:How are you? Good to
Speaker 13:see you guys.
Speaker 6:Do I do anything?
Speaker 1:No. No. You're good. We can hear you. Alright.
Speaker 1:Great. Talk talk to us about the first day on the job. How's it how are settling in? How's it how's it going?
Speaker 6:Honestly, it's been incredible. Thanks. It's like a lot of fun. I think, you know, building an AI lab in sixty days flat is kind of a kind of an incredible activity. Yeah.
Speaker 6:But, know, it's a good way. It's Give me
Speaker 1:give me your pitch if you were trying to hire me if I'm some hotshot AI scientist.
Speaker 13:I
Speaker 6:think Meta has everything necessary to achieve superintelligence. There are no obstacles. We have the business model to support building literally hundreds of billions of dollars of compute to be able to actually produce the technology. We have an incredibly talent dense team. Our team is smaller and more talent dense than any of the other labs.
Speaker 6:The other labs are like 10 times bigger
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 6:And our team is about a 100 people of cracked AI scientists Yeah. That's how we're gonna get there. And we're gonna be incredibly bold, and we have the scale of products and business to be able to deploy superintelligence to every person on the planet.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What are you looking for in that 100 people? Are you doing two pizza teams? Like, who's fitting in really well right now?
Speaker 6:I think that the AI researchers are all pretty are incredibly kind and lovely people. And so I think we've been able to just build a team of great people. Everybody's trying to build super intelligence. Everybody is excited to be able to build, you know, potentially the most important technology of all time. And we're my job is, like, ensuring that we have the conditions to be able to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Talk to me about the pillars, how you're thinking about research, safety, product, how long
Speaker 3:that comes in the In the position of MSL as opposed to other labs where you have pretty much every human in the world that you can actually distribute these products to. Yeah.
Speaker 6:Yeah. I think so so we kind of split the split the team into three pieces, infrastructure, research, and and product. Yeah. Research obviously has this job of building these models, which will ultimately, you know, be be super intelligent over time. Product is responsible for ensuring that, you know, over time, they do get distributed and used in novel and interesting ways by the world.
Speaker 6:And then infrastructure is this very difficult challenge of building, you know, literally the largest data centers in the world and continue to scale those over time. I think that the, over time, like, you know, not only having the distribution of all Meta's products, but also truly, like, having this incredibly talent dense team is going to be is going to prove to be, a huge differentiator. I think that, like, you know, one of our guidelines for building the team is that people have to be in the in the very top handful from one of the other labs. And if you just do that, if you just build a team of the very best people from from the industry, like, you're going to be very successful.
Speaker 3:Talk about the advantage of having a hardware team that's been at it for a decade versus maybe starting in the last year. How how closely are you are you in are you in touch with them in terms of kind of showing what what capabilities will be coming down, the pipeline from the MSL side?
Speaker 6:I mean, the, the amount of engineering that has gone into this thing is absolutely incredible. They have, like, the transparent versions. We can see all the fucking shit that
Speaker 8:Yeah. I got that.
Speaker 6:Painstakingly engineered over the course of a decade.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 10:I mean,
Speaker 3:and and it's not a it's a you know, we've we've done a couple demos over the last month or so, but this is a product that people are gonna be able to have their hands on in two weeks.
Speaker 6:A 100%. And like and fundamental like, I think, you know, glasses are the natural delivery mechanism for super intelligence. Like, they it is you need something that will see what you see, hear what you hear, and then can easily deliver information to you
Speaker 1:Yeah. Like It's literally right next to this the human sensors. The human sensors and the human brain.
Speaker 6:The human sensors next to the to the Digital sensors. Digital sensors. Exactly. Merge.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The merge. This is the merge.
Speaker 6:Slap together.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's happening.
Speaker 6:Yeah. And and I think it'll, I I mean, like, my my view is, like, it will literally just feel like cognitive enhancement.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 6:You will just you'll gain a 100 IQ points by having your super intelligence right next to to all the Yeah. Are you,
Speaker 3:like, talk about chatbots. Right? It feels like the chatbot chatbot meta, like, is here, but it's not it doesn't feel like what's gonna be the most important thing in a decade from now. Yeah. I mean,
Speaker 6:I think fundamentally, if you look at, like, the AI industry, there's been relatively low innovation on the product side. Like, ChatGPT was one of the first products that we had, and chat was one of the first products, and it still is the dominant product for AI delivery. And then on code, you've seen innovation with, like Yeah. You know, cursor and
Speaker 3:Agents. Code and Yeah.
Speaker 6:All these all these other products. But but, yeah, we're just still in the, like and from a product innovation standpoint, we're still very much in some local maxima. And any like, this is true of any consumer product. There are going to be many innings of innovation that come along the way. And so our bet is that we're gonna be able to be pretty bold and iterate and build some very innovative new product experiences.
Speaker 1:Do do you buy into that idea of, AI writing 90% of your code? Is that just you're writing 10 times as much code or you can write the same amount as a thousand person team with a 100 people? What does that actually mean when people throw around that 90% of code will be written by AI?
Speaker 6:Yeah. I think it's impossible to understate the degree to which I've been radicalized by AI coding. Like, I think that fundamentally, the role of an engineer is just, like, very different now than it was before. And, you know, I think I think it, like, feels obviously true that for any engineer, including me, like, I've written a bunch of code in my life.
Speaker 4:Like Yeah.
Speaker 6:Literally all the code I've written in my life will be replaced by will will be able to have been produced by an AI model within the next five years.
Speaker 1:And so What's your advice for young people then?
Speaker 6:I think you just have
Speaker 3:to figure out how to use
Speaker 6:the tools maximally. I think, like, it's actually, in some ways, like, this incredible moment of discontinuity where, if you just happen to spend, like, 10,000 hours playing with the tools and figuring out how to use them better than other people, that's, like, a huge advantage. And adults all have jobs. So we're not like, you guys are on on freaking t b t b p. You're not vibe coding.
Speaker 1:No. Like, code, you know?
Speaker 3:Yeah. It is it is interesting. We we were at YC demo day last week and talking and and looking at the eras of the sneaker flippers, the people doing Minecraft servers, and it feels like the people today are gonna be leveraging the tools, not just to learn them, but actually making money from them in while they're in middle school, high school, etcetera. I I
Speaker 6:think it's exactly that kind it's almost like, you know, when personal computers first came about, like, the people or or just computing in general. The people who spent the most time with and grew up with it had this immense advantage in the future economy, like the Bill Gates, world, or even the even the the Mark Zuckerbergs of the world. So I think that that moment is happening right now. And, like, if you are, like, 13 years old, you should spend all of your time vibe coding and just, you know, that's how you should live your life.
Speaker 1:It's amazing. Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. Yeah. We'll have to have you back for a longer conversation.
Speaker 3:Soon. This is fantastic. Congrats on
Speaker 1:the new soon. In the meantime, let me tell you about turbopuffer turbopuffer.com. Serverless We do, man. And full text search built from first principles on object storage, fast, 10 x cheaper, and extremely scalable.
Speaker 3:Shoes by the best.
Speaker 1:We have Andrew Bosworth. Bos, how you doing? Welcome. You see, what what shoes are you wearing? We saw them we saw them photographed in the in the Yeah.
Speaker 1:In the keynote.
Speaker 13:Let's go ahead and do this.
Speaker 1:We we Let us know. Hold on. You got. Oh, god. What it is.
Speaker 1:We got the shoes. There we go. The And they say Bos on them.
Speaker 13:Yeah. Alex alford on Instagram at alex alford. Okay. Brooklyn based artist.
Speaker 1:Fantastic.
Speaker 13:Honestly, he was solving a problem for us. We're like, how can Mark use the Zoom feature when he's one foot away from me?
Speaker 4:Yeah. Like,
Speaker 13:he is right next to my
Speaker 1:face. Yeah.
Speaker 13:Because I don't want it to be my face. Yeah. Yeah. And so we needed some detailed shoes for it.
Speaker 1:That's great. That's great.
Speaker 13:Go. On the on the Oakley's, no less, we're being brand loyal.
Speaker 3:Yep. Of course.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's great. That's great. In in the future, do you think I'll be able to just point the point the the glasses at the shoes and say, hey. Go pull these up for me. Order them.
Speaker 1:Deliver them to me.
Speaker 13:A 100%. Ideally, in the future, you even have to. Later on, you're like, oh,
Speaker 5:I I want those shoes.
Speaker 1:They knew that I wanted them. I love that. That's great. I got a budget. I'm gonna authorize your credit card.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's like, yeah, this is
Speaker 4:my budget.
Speaker 1:No. This is great. This is great. Fully h o.
Speaker 3:So here's the thing. Yeah. Here's the thing. I I don't think this can be, like the the the thing that feels incredible here is that you walk on the screen onto the show Yeah. And you're wearing the new displays
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:And you're not thinking, oh, this guy's wearing a computer on
Speaker 1:his face. It's crazy.
Speaker 3:You're saying this guy's wearing a pair of glasses.
Speaker 13:We do have this problem, I think, in the tech industry where we look at a set of features and we're like, oh, this is the same. These two things are the same. It's not the same. You look at what's come before and you look at this, like, I'm sorry. This is a different thing.
Speaker 13:And I think that's what we've been from day one. Mark said it, if they're not great glasses first, we're just not doing them.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You told Ben Thompson, you shipped the v one, but the v three is the what what you want to be your v one. Is there been a secret v two? Because I feel like Orion, and then here, this is the actual v three, but it seems polished.
Speaker 13:We've got so Orion is a is a we think Different tech. Line. It's like a whole tech tree of augmented reality, which
Speaker 1:is very much following
Speaker 13:the v one, v two, v three kind of Sure. Sure. Is I I will say, this is
Speaker 1:an uncommonly good v one.
Speaker 8:It's good.
Speaker 13:I'm not gonna lie
Speaker 1:to you. It's good.
Speaker 13:A lot of that is because I think the the neural interface is v two. Yeah. And that's really, you can feel it. The neural interface feeling as smooth as it does as natural does. What's funny to me now is if I wear the the Ray Ban Metas, and I'll I'll just walk around and I'll I'll be pissed.
Speaker 13:I'll be using the interface. I'm like, god, I'm
Speaker 1:not I'm not using the display glass.
Speaker 13:I can't use the interface.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's
Speaker 3:crazy. It's crazy how natural it is. We picked it up. I mean, we've done a couple demos now, and it's just you pick it up, and it's just like using it it's just immediate translation from using a regular mobile device.
Speaker 1:So a year ago, Jordy made the prediction that in the future, you might have multiple pairs of glasses, a work pair, a sports pair. Is that is that gonna hold for a long time?
Speaker 13:Yeah. But people already have a lot of glasses. Yeah. You got different styles. You got different things.
Speaker 13:I think that's appropriate. In the future, yeah, you wanna have the full functionality of augmented reality. That's one zone. Sometimes you just yeah. I'm just going to my kid's soccer game.
Speaker 13:Wanna take videos. That's all I need. I do think you're gonna end up with a strata, the entire line where you get into full AR, these AI smart glasses with displays, AI glasses that don't have displays, and maybe even some stuff at the lower end. There's a whole range there, and people should be able to dial what they want out of that. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. If you were a young founder excited about AR, how would you be planning the next five years?
Speaker 13:Well, there's two really important things. The first one is you have to embrace AI, and these are really tightly connected. People didn't see that five, six years ago. Now, it's so clear. It's very unlikely to me that in the AR
Speaker 3:We gotta give you some credit for that, by the way. I don't I don't think I I think broadly tech didn't see the intersection in the same way.
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Now it feels natural because you guys are up there pitching live AI Yeah. Real time AI and it's like, oh, makes total sense. But they felt like different tech trees at at one point.
Speaker 13:And in the future, you're
Speaker 2:not gonna have an
Speaker 13:app store. Like, I don't need I don't wanna go figure out what the app for my toaster was called and like, make sure I make toast, man. Like, I just wanna talk to the AI and let it handle the back end. Yeah. So it's a lot about what is what's the functionality you're producing?
Speaker 13:How is that gonna integrate with AI? And then I would be thinking a lot about dynamic UI. That's the thing that no one's cracked yet, including us, is how do you get it so that the the UI that I need is available when I need it?
Speaker 3:Generates in real time.
Speaker 13:As opposed to just like this fixed set of things that I gotta go learn every time I have a new appliance in my life.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Totally. Talk about the tech tree in VR. It feels like Jim's James Cameron's on stage. I've said for a long time that this is I don't know if you agree with me, but I feel like people will be watching movies in VR before they're playing fully immersive hundred hour triple a late games because you gotta get the install base up, and Avatar in three d already exists.
Speaker 1:It's a great experience.
Speaker 13:You know, he's such a passionate guy and he cares so much about the quality of the product. He really was not a fan of headsets until Quest three. Yeah. And it finally got high res enough and AVP and and all different things. And then he was like, oh, I'm he he went from like not that interested to all the way in.
Speaker 13:You saw Yeah. That's great. Just hype.
Speaker 3:Fired up.
Speaker 13:He's totally fired up. And that's because we finally caught so up until then, you know, listen, watching on your TV was better.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 13:Like, why would you watch it in the headset? It was better. That's not true anymore. Yeah. Won't be true in the future.
Speaker 13:Like, we're gonna be the the tech he's he's seen the future. He he ruined all my secrets on stage. Keep bringing them back. And so that just does keep getting better. The future isn't just the tech though, and people underestimate this.
Speaker 13:A big part of what is premium in the headset space is lightness. Yeah. It's weight, it's comfort. Those are premium features. And that's kinda different than the previous generation.
Speaker 13:That's not how it was with phones or laptops where you wanted it to feel solid and sturdy. You want it to feel plastic y and light. Wait. Wait.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 13:But when you're a wearable, that is one of the most premium things you can deliver. So we are looking at not just the technology, but how do you package it into the smallest amount of of space and weight.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:Talk about the decisions to around the heads up display specifically in the display lenses. Right? They're they they allow you to interact with the real world. It's not meant to like cut you off. Yeah.
Speaker 3:But what what what what into those decisions?
Speaker 13:Yeah. So from day one, Mark, you heard him on stage, We wanted this not to be interruptive. If this is a thing that's constantly flashing notifications up on your face, that's a pretty annoying piece of technology. That's not a technology you're gonna be delighted by. So literally, the way we did this was we thought, what are the top 10 things that you take your phone out of your pocket for?
Speaker 13:Taking a picture, you know, changing the song, listening to music, get a playlist, you know, send messages, you're gonna get a navigation, you're gonna get directions. And we just started working down that list and making sure that we could do those things on the headset. We're doing it in partnership with the phone. It's it's all part of the same ecosystem, but that's one less thing you have to take your your phone out of your pocket for. That's one more minute that you're engaged in whatever it is that you're actually doing.
Speaker 13:Everything I mean, the handwriting stuff. You did
Speaker 3:you guys try that? Yeah.
Speaker 13:Demo? Crazy. You know, that was a 2027 maybe thing. That way. And then in the last year, we just blitzed it.
Speaker 13:The team did incredible work to blitz that, and that's another thing. Now you can respond to messages without having to take your phone out. So it's
Speaker 1:Who's the fastest handwriter at Meta now?
Speaker 13:I'm not exaggerating. This will sound like I'm blowing smoke, but it's not who I am because I'm very competitive. It is Mark now. He was he was not good to start. Got his glasses he got the handwriting, like, two weeks ago, but he knew he was doing it on stage.
Speaker 13:So he has been he runs this company on WhatsApp. Yeah. And so he has been doing every single message that any of us have gotten for two weeks is in WhatsApp. I literally think he went from, like, like, the 10 percentile to the ninety ninth percentile Yeah. Words per minute.
Speaker 13:We have a we have a touch typing demo that we do with no keyboard, nothing, just from cameras.
Speaker 11:No way. I was number
Speaker 13:one till Susan Lee, our CFO, be an Excel jockey is always Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Just an Excel jockey crush number one.
Speaker 13:I'm number two at that. But, yeah, no. I'm not exaggerating when I say Mark. We're like, well, we watched him on stage like,
Speaker 8:oh, damn.
Speaker 3:He's The keyboard dev is real. You're just you're leaking that, but that seems that seems in incredible.
Speaker 1:I mean, the name of the company's Meta Platforms. It feels like this is a hardware platform. There weren't that many things where I was like, I want an independent developer to play around with this. But for those, I want the I want the innovation to flourish. I want I want the kid in the in the college dorm room to build something that runs on that.
Speaker 1:What is that gonna look like?
Speaker 11:What beer? I want the beer app.
Speaker 1:I want the beer app. Come on. Give us the beer app.
Speaker 13:The pressure has been immense on us ever since the Ray Bay Meadows kinda really became a hit last year to to produce there. Yeah. We have some exciting announcements tomorrow Okay. API development for some people. It's it's it's too tough on the glasses.
Speaker 13:Well, know, we worked with Spotify to do the Spotify app. And we really had to rebuild it with them, help them design it to make sure it met their specs. Yep. Even Instagram on the on the glasses. Had to, like, redesign it with Adam and like go to so it's so tight.
Speaker 13:The thermal and and space is so tight, and they it's so expensive to run the radio. You lose your battery and thermal so fast.
Speaker 1:So so the app It's the worst
Speaker 3:it's ever gonna be. Right?
Speaker 13:That's right. Everything is exquisite right now. Yeah. Over time, obviously, we wanna buy that space back
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 13:And open it up to developers. And but again, I I I think a lot it is gonna go through the AI. A lot of it is gonna be you invoke the AI to accomplish the task. That's on that's not just on us. Whether it's MCP or something else, that's on our industry.
Speaker 13:We gotta continue to build what is the web of interaction design for AI apps. Yeah. Because we all know that is where things are headed.
Speaker 1:What about on the other side of, like, the big tech partners that could potentially bend messaging into this? We were talk we were at YC Demo Day a a few weeks ago, and we were talking to a team that, like, they're like, well, this AI agent will run on your laptop, and it'll suck in all your messages. We're like, that's probably not gonna last for that long. But is there any hope that that other platforms will play ball and say, yes, there's enough demand. What's it take to get iMessage showed in here or Gmail or anything like that in there?
Speaker 13:Yeah. So we would love to work with these partners as you can imagine. Yeah. And I I I get it. We're so early on in the technology for Google or for Apple.
Speaker 13:At first, they're just thinking, can we do it at all? Can we do our own version? What's that
Speaker 1:look like?
Speaker 13:But we have an opportunity here, think, as Meta to not only establish a consumer category that nobody's in. I think the more people play in that category, the more attractive it is for us to work together to make sure all of our use cases are supported there. You never want the platform to get in way of a great consumer experience. Yeah. And that's true for us, that's true for them.
Speaker 13:So it's too early to say. We're literally, you know, day zero. Actually, probably day minus 30 on these things, but Yep. But we are getting there rapidly.
Speaker 1:Yeah. The actual, like, there it looks like there's cuts on the glasses. Those are is that a design touch or is that actually a wave guide? Is that a functional Yeah. These are called the input gratings.
Speaker 1:Okay.
Speaker 13:You've got a little light liquid crystal and silicon display right display engine right here. It's piping light in. Yeah. Total internal reflection of light. It spreads that light out across a bunch of different pipes and channels that then shoot it in my eye through this what we call a geometric waveguide.
Speaker 13:And so I have a display on that right now, so you can't
Speaker 1:You you do. And we can't see it.
Speaker 13:You can't see it?
Speaker 1:That's crazy.
Speaker 11:So That is
Speaker 1:just Wait. Did you just turn it off
Speaker 10:right there?
Speaker 5:Yeah. Just turned
Speaker 4:it Yeah. Oh, got
Speaker 11:you. It's it's
Speaker 1:That's remarkable.
Speaker 3:I can't wait for people to go and just demo these because it Yeah. It literally is a science it's a science fiction we've been promised. Like, I as at 29 years old
Speaker 1:Heads up to Sky. It's in every video game.
Speaker 13:I I told I told my team, like, we're it's yesterday's future today.
Speaker 4:Yeah. It's
Speaker 13:like it's like the things that we were promised are finally arriving.
Speaker 1:We got
Speaker 3:Thank you guys for for doing a demo and letting people buy it Yeah. This year.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Not that not that doesn't happen a that much. Bold statement. And AR.
Speaker 10:Yeah. Appreciate that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What what what's next for you at Meta? What what what are you focused on? What do you wanna deliver this year?
Speaker 13:Yeah. For us, look, the really big big arcs, obviously, you're continued towards full AR. Mhmm. So we're really excited that we're supporting the entire strata we talked about before. Full AR, display glasses, regular glasses, and and even other other exciting fun factors that I can't yet tease.
Speaker 13:On the VR side, we're advancing the hardware. We have multiple fronts that we're advancing the hardware on, and also on the software side supporting creators. Gen AI, don't sleep on it. That is the real unlock. You've got Roblox, you've got Minecraft, they're awesome tools, you've got tremendous communities there of creators, but there is a ceiling on how good the rendering can be in those platforms, which I don't know.
Speaker 13:And it's also you have to be a certain level of creator to be able to produce good content in those platforms. And with Gen AI, you can lower the floor. So it's so much We just
Speaker 3:played around with the basically prompt to game functionality. It's crazy. And I I gave the I I was talking with the team that gave us the demo and I was like it was like not that long ago that I was like coding little iPhone apps Pong. Yeah. It would take me two days to like get a functioning app and you're able to just prompt it and be like, hey, change this character completely.
Speaker 3:Change the entire role.
Speaker 13:And getting a decent three d texture used to be like, you needed an artist and you need like a rent you need a whole bunch of things. And then also with the new Horizon engine, making it so it looks better. Yeah. And we think that's gonna be something that appeals to people, not just in headset, but on mobile.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, I remember, I believe it was a couple years ago, you shared a photo of your home setup, and you had the teleprompter, and you had the VR headset. What does that look like today? A lot of the focus has been about getting the glasses into the real world with the Run Club. But are you using these in front of your computer as well?
Speaker 13:Yeah. I use these at this point, I'm pretty much using these all the time. Mhmm. Me and Mark kind of like Yeah. Just been on nonstop.
Speaker 13:Once you get these on Yeah. Start using them in the you're in the thing of messaging, like it's Right. It's pretty next level. Like, even earlier, I was just coming up on stage. Mark was messaging me about, you know, the Go ahead.
Speaker 13:Things. We we I will say Future's here. As a CTO, you feel a certain responsibility to your setup. You you gotta really go over the top. Yeah.
Speaker 13:I'm now shooting hilarious, like Leica cinema lenses. Yeah. The ones that Ina Rishi shot Birdman at. No way. Like, it's like in my, like, my VC setup.
Speaker 13:I'm like, I've gone I've gone too
Speaker 1:far. That's amazing.
Speaker 13:I've gone too far, there's no turning back.
Speaker 1:Well, we gotta have you on the show. Call in with those lenses. I'd love to have you remotely. That's that's amazing.
Speaker 3:We're excited to get glasses because John and I will be on the show. Yeah. And we wanna not be on our screens. Right? I have I usually have a computer open when we're at our studio because the team might text me, hey, this guest's running late, whatever.
Speaker 3:Being in a world where we can just be live and get a notification, hey, we got a guest running two minutes behind.
Speaker 1:And it is it is underrated. I mean, obviously, like, we're all hoping for, like, App Store super open development, but I was just talking to some of our team, I was like, wait. We could actually, like, pipe tons of crazy stuff just through the WhatsApp API. Like, it's not that crazy to do. And and WhatsApp has a bunch primitives you can build around, so there's gonna be some cool stuff.
Speaker 1:And there's already WhatsApp apps and the whole ecosystem developers there. So Yeah. Awesome. And my you
Speaker 13:know, Alex Himmel, runs the Rarebels division Yeah. A year ago, when he had the first prototypes, he gave a whole speech, and nobody knew he was doing the teleprompter
Speaker 1:Oh, no way.
Speaker 13:On the glasses. And he was just and he
Speaker 12:was swiping the slides There you go.
Speaker 13:With gestures. So there's a lot of potential here for these kinds of integrations.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. That's great. Well, thank you so much for coming on
Speaker 5:the show.
Speaker 1:Thanks for having me. This is fantastic.
Speaker 13:By the way, I love the show.
Speaker 1:Thank you.
Speaker 13:This thing rocks. We we have a lot
Speaker 1:of fun.
Speaker 13:And I'm I'm I'm gonna out shotgun shooting with you after all your practice in Robo Recall.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It really it really did, like, completely change the game. I'd never shot a gun in my life.
Speaker 13:I can't believe that's a true story.
Speaker 1:It is a true story. It is a You true should shotgun.
Speaker 16:And and I don't
Speaker 1:remember Robo Recall. Yeah. No.
Speaker 13:No. That's a spectacular story. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was remarkable.
Speaker 13:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:It was great. Anyway, thanks so much for having us. This is great. We will talk to him later. Up next, we have Eva Chen.
Speaker 3:Next time we do this Yes. Twelve hour stream, thirty minutes a guest.
Speaker 1:Yeah. For sure. For sure. Not nearly enough time. But we have Eva Chen, the VP of fashion partnerships.
Speaker 1:Welcome to the stream. Thank you so much. Well, I'm I'm learning. I'm learning. It's good to hear.
Speaker 1:Let's throw this on.
Speaker 3:I'm I'm more of an enthusiast.
Speaker 1:Yes. Jordy's the enthusiast right there.
Speaker 10:Okay.
Speaker 13:Yeah.
Speaker 8:What's your name?
Speaker 1:I'm John. This is Jordy.
Speaker 3:John and Jordy. Jordy. And Jordy. Jordy.
Speaker 1:Jordy? Jordy? Jordy Hayes.
Speaker 14:Jordy. Okay.
Speaker 1:There we go.
Speaker 14:Like finding Jordy? And I was like, I
Speaker 3:Something like that. Call us whatever you want. We're just happy to have you here.
Speaker 14:Thank you so
Speaker 10:much for Now you
Speaker 3:can hear us.
Speaker 14:I can hear you perfectly. It's it's quite a vibe here.
Speaker 3:I mean, it's insane.
Speaker 14:Guys, it's a vibe feels like a
Speaker 3:a music festival.
Speaker 1:Wait. What frames are you wearing?
Speaker 14:I'm wearing this. Are we live? Yeah. We're live. Oh, my goodness.
Speaker 14:Here we go. We're We're live. Welcome. Alright. I'm wearing the Skyler, which is like a subtle cat eye.
Speaker 1:Looks good.
Speaker 14:And they're transitions.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 14:And you can put prescriptions in them, and it's like a great everyday class. Yeah. I wear them all the time. Yeah. Using them for headphones and live streaming.
Speaker 14:Yeah. Taking content for Instagram.
Speaker 1:Yeah. There's been tons of fashion partnerships, Mark.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I online. First Labubu Is this the
Speaker 14:first Lububu?
Speaker 1:This is the first on live on the show. We sent one to a guest, Bill Bishop. We sent him a Lububu. That is a wild one.
Speaker 14:It is
Speaker 1:a Meta. Lububu. It is
Speaker 14:a meta branded Lububu, a little meta bucket hat.
Speaker 1:Fantastic. The jorts. That are one
Speaker 3:of one. One of one? One of twenty?
Speaker 14:One
Speaker 1:One of 20.
Speaker 14:Mark actually just got the last one.
Speaker 4:There you go.
Speaker 14:Sorry, guys.
Speaker 3:But Mark is gonna be crazy.
Speaker 1:Talk about actually how to get these products accepted in the fashion community. Yeah. Fashion community, don't know that much about it, but, you know, very exclusive limited release, only 20 of those. This product's available for everyone. Yeah.
Speaker 1:How do you how did you actually think about the steps of what activations and what partnerships you wanna do in what order to actually get traction within the fashion community?
Speaker 14:Totally. Well, the first thing is that to make a stylish glass, period. Something that, like, people on campus here are wearing them. They look like regular glasses and they blend right into everyone's style. When you partner with a company like Essilor Luxottica and you're working with Ray Ban, which has like the number one glass Oh,
Speaker 3:it's iconic.
Speaker 14:Think about it. James Dean.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 14:You know, like Silhouette. Like, Bruce Springsteen, like, Bob Dylan.
Speaker 1:Well, I remember Casey Neistat. Yeah. That's what I think.
Speaker 14:Yeah. I I I think about James Dean a little bit more.
Speaker 4:But, you
Speaker 14:know, they're an iconic glass, and it, like, it just blends into everyone's style. We're here on the meta campus. You can see hundreds of people wearing these glasses.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 14:Looks good on everyone.
Speaker 1:That's great.
Speaker 14:Yep. That's the first foundational thing.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 14:And then in terms of the technology, once people try these on, I've worn these to fashion shows, Front Row, Milan, Paris, London. Everyone who tries them on is, like, blown away because not only do they look good, they're just like the capabilities are next level. Yeah. What's coming next? Unbelievable.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What is the future of the, Meta Ray Ban's display look like in fashion? Am I gonna be able to put these on in a in a physical try like, physical changing room and and have it AI generate me in a different mean, I was already like,
Speaker 3:how how earlier using Yeah. Like a like a AR try on mechanism. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Remember, I
Speaker 3:was looking in in one of the setups that they had over there?
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. That's right. Yeah. Yeah. What does that look like?
Speaker 14:That I mean, that's the dream. Right?
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 14:Something that, like, as someone who works in the fashion industry, that is, like, kind of the holy grail. Mhmm. To be able to try on glasses and then see yourself and style yourself in different outfits.
Speaker 9:I don't know
Speaker 14:if you've seen the movie Clueless. It is a seminal movie for me in terms of fashion.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Fantastic movie. And there Jordy has never seen a movie in his life.
Speaker 14:Well, my god.
Speaker 1:But I've seen all of them. So
Speaker 14:Okay. Start with Clueless.
Speaker 1:Clueless is great.
Speaker 14:Start with the Clueless. Yeah. But like, there's a scene where Cher Horowitz is going through kind of like virtual try on Sure. Closet.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Remember that.
Speaker 14:But that's like
Speaker 3:It's another one of those things that's been sci fi. Right? Like, the display feels like science fiction today.
Speaker 14:We need to get there. But for now, like, with these new glasses, the ability to be able to kind of have that experience of seeing something, asking Meta AI, hey, Meta. How would you describe this dress? And they would say, oh, this is like a nineteen fifties fit and flare dress style. That's gonna be so helpful for people as they're learning and stretching in the fashion industry.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. The other thing, I mean, we we were talking with was it Boss or Yeah. Or Clarisse with this, but just like seeing things in the real world and being like, I want that. And being able to like like basically decrease the friction between, oh, I don't have to like Google it or do a reverse image search. It's just like instant.
Speaker 3:Right?
Speaker 14:Yeah. There's a lot of friction right now just in general with fashion. Right? Like, I'm on Instagram, I'm scrolling, I see a friend's really cute outfit, I have to tap. If she didn't tag it, then I have to like screen grab it, WhatsApp it to her and be like, hey, Ami.
Speaker 14:Where are these shoes from? And then she has to write back, then I Google it. And it's just so many steps from inspiration to actual purchase. And, I mean, listen, that's my dream, like, in terms of Reality Labs to get there, to make commerce easier. But for now, I think in terms of the everyday consumer, just being able to see the world around you in three d to be able to, like, ask questions and feel like you're being interactive, it's amazing.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This is fantastic. Congratulations to me as I will
Speaker 7:over to
Speaker 14:more fashion segments. Yes. Absolutely. We'd love that. We got that.
Speaker 1:Thank you so much.
Speaker 14:Have a great day. Bye.
Speaker 4:Great. Hang on.
Speaker 1:Tell you about numeralhq.com, sales tax on autopilot. Spend less than five minutes per month on sales tax compliance. Our next guest is Tiffany Jansen. Welcome to the stream, Tiff. What?
Speaker 1:How you doing? On. Good to see good to see you. Welcome to the stream.
Speaker 16:Can hear you, Todd.
Speaker 1:Day been like? How have you been enjoying Meta Connect twenty twenty five?
Speaker 9:You know, the day's flown by.
Speaker 3:Let's get the mic up a little bit. Perfect.
Speaker 9:The day's been great. It's flown by. I mean, the product announcements were phenomenal. I I got a demo of the Meta Ray Ban, displays yesterday. So it's really excited to see though the announcements around it.
Speaker 9:It it blew me away.
Speaker 1:I I do do you think that these products are ready to be integrated into creative workflow, your workflow? How do you think they fit in? Obviously, there's so many creative tools. When would you pull a Meta Braeban product off the shelf?
Speaker 9:Oh, absolutely. I mean, well, for one, while you're on the go creating content, it's it's huge, you know, organic contents, being able to capture those moments instantaneously, I think is going to be a game changer. Even thinking about the Meta Ray Ban displays using meta AI while I'm walking around and ideating, that's huge for a creator to stand out.
Speaker 1:Sure. Sure. Sure. What what advice do you have for people who are maybe getting started on on creating content on meta platforms?
Speaker 9:Utilize AI. Really treat it as almost a coworker, you
Speaker 1:can think
Speaker 9:of it as. It's one of my favorite ways to if I have an idea, but I maybe can't fully piece it together and I I want someone to bounce it off with, you know, I work by myself. I I work from home. I I need that collaboration.
Speaker 3:Really you really don't have a how big is your team?
Speaker 9:My team? I mean, my team is about five people.
Speaker 4:Yeah. But
Speaker 3:when you're saying when you're in that creative workflow Yeah. You really
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 9:When you're in that creative workflow, I mean, for scripting, for coming up with ideas, that's that's my role. That's my job. So Yeah. You know, I have some people I can ideate with, but I find, honestly, the more I I do that with something like meta AI, and it can keep on keeping track of what I'm thinking and and really wanting to put together, it's almost better sometimes.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We ask
Speaker 3:Any advice for content creators that want to interview the Mag seven CEOs?
Speaker 1:Yeah. You've been doing this.
Speaker 9:Oh. You know what?
Speaker 1:Who have you interviewed so far?
Speaker 9:So so far, last year was Mark, and I know you guys have him up next. And then last year was Mark, Jensen, I did Satya.
Speaker 1:Smoothie's in Dallas.
Speaker 9:Yeah. I did I there's you know, the list goes on. And it was Yeah. It's been great. You know what?
Speaker 9:I think the the key or the secret is just be yourself, be authentic, be knowledgeable with what they're they're building and yeah. They're also down to earth. It was great.
Speaker 1:Yeah. We asked a couple other folks this. How much content do you think on Instagram is gonna be AI generated in five years?
Speaker 9:That's a really great question. Well, I mean, I'm okay. Five years. Let's say what right now, I would say we're already probably at 40 to 50%, honestly, I think.
Speaker 1:Certainly, like AI enhanced, AI enabled, AI in the loop, but there's still a human somewhere involved.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's the question of, like, what what company is an Internet company.
Speaker 13:Yeah. Wanna So it
Speaker 1:kinda just stays in the background. Right?
Speaker 3:Product, but they distribute it with
Speaker 2:the Internet.
Speaker 7:Right? Yeah.
Speaker 1:You kinda just forget about it.
Speaker 9:I know. Yeah. I don't know what it will be. Maybe it will be closer to, you know, 80 to 90% in just some way AI touches it.
Speaker 1:But Yeah.
Speaker 3:Maybe So human taste and point of view.
Speaker 9:I like the human touch.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I mean, if you go back to the original Instagram, it's like, what percentage it's almost like asking what percentage of photos were not filtered? Hashtag no filter. Like, was a trend, but most people filtered them.
Speaker 16:100%.
Speaker 1:In the future, most people will be like, yeah. Check the box.
Speaker 3:No AI.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Check the box also.
Speaker 3:Like tags might come
Speaker 1:back. Fix the lighting or add subtitles automatically. Like, there's a lot of things that AI can do that still keep the core human element, but then add a bunch of
Speaker 2:stuff on top.
Speaker 9:Collaboration.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. There's also have you seen those videos on Instagram of, like, where people take some very technical concept and then they turn into a song? I saw one around steel coils. Have you seen this one?
Speaker 14:I have. I have.
Speaker 1:And that's one where it came from the human. Clearly, that came from the brain of a human, and AI was just used to make the song and the and the voice over and stuff. Anyway, it's been fantastic having you on the show. Thank you so much for helping on. Great to
Speaker 9:to soon. Bye.
Speaker 1:And up next, we have vanta.com. Automate compliance, manage risk, improve trust continuously. Vanta's trust management platform helps you get compliant fast. We have Mark Zuckerberg joining in just a few minutes. Founder, Moe.
Speaker 1:What has your been reaction been to the overall Meta Connect twenty twenty five? Jordy, how are you doing?
Speaker 3:I think it's impressive to see, like, you know, the the immediate reaction I have is is how important it is to keep the band together. Right? People like It
Speaker 1:is crazy how long some of these folks
Speaker 3:have been Chris Hawk. Yep. Adam Masary. Right? It's like you need to keep talent focused and and yeah.
Speaker 3:I think talking with Boz and, like, understanding, I do feel like five you know, only five years ago, it was not people were not seeing the connection between they just weren't seeing the connection between glasses Mhmm. And ARVR and AI. And, like, obvious and the intersection is just beautiful.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah. The the original Meadoway bands, it felt like such an add on little, like, side project almost. And now it's, like, the center of their annual keynote, and they're really building a lot of different stuff on top of it. Yep.
Speaker 1:That's been fascinating.
Speaker 3:We gotta read a post here from
Speaker 1:What you got? Atlas
Speaker 3:Creatine Cycle.
Speaker 1:You thought we weren't gonna print out post and read
Speaker 3:Here we are. Atlas live live at Metaconnect. My prompt. Let's get some ice let's get you some ice cream. GF agent.
Speaker 3:Okay. Yay. Will you have some? My prompt. Probably not.
Speaker 3:I'm kind of full. GF agent. Okay. Fine. Thought for thirty forty six seconds.
Speaker 3:I'm not hungry.
Speaker 1:I I I honestly don't understand that. It's like the
Speaker 3:It's a classic interaction. Just if
Speaker 1:it if it recreates a human interaction perfectly, it will behave exactly like a
Speaker 3:We got a real post here.
Speaker 2:It
Speaker 3:says, bro, last night was a testament to our culture and civilization.
Speaker 8:It was.
Speaker 1:It was.
Speaker 3:Is You're ready. An absolute party out
Speaker 1:here. We are bringing Mark Zuckerberg on Before he hops on, let me tell you about ramp.com. Time is money. Save both. These news corporate cards, bill payments, accounting, a whole lot more all in one place.
Speaker 1:Here we go. Let's bring him on. Mark Zuckerberg live on TV PM. Welcome to the stream. How are doing, Mark?
Speaker 1:Good to see you. To see you. Congratulations. On.
Speaker 2:Hey, Mark.
Speaker 3:Massive day. You got a bunch of fans here. Love to see it.
Speaker 7:Yeah. It's a fun one.
Speaker 1:You still winded from the run? Or
Speaker 7:No. That was a pretty conversational pace.
Speaker 3:That's conversational pace. Love
Speaker 10:it. Yeah.
Speaker 1:React to the, Kinect announcements. How do how do you envision the next phase of this with developers? I mean, there's so many cool ideas that I could imagine happening on Ray Ban display, but there's immense amount of constraints operating in such a small format. What does this look like over the next couple of years?
Speaker 7:Yeah. Well, I mean, I think that there are two platforms here that are interesting. One is the display glasses
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 7:And the other is the neural band. Sure. And I actually think both of them could evolve into important platforms on the by themselves.
Speaker 2:So Okay.
Speaker 7:The glasses, I actually think there it's pretty clear. Right? I mean, you you saw there's the the nav where there's a bunch of different apps. We're gonna try to, you know, start off with partnerships and start off getting some of the most used use cases and really nailing those and getting them in there. And then over time, hopefully, we'll we'll be able to open it up in some way, but I think we need to figure that out.
Speaker 7:The neural band, I think, is gonna be an interesting platform by itself because, I mean, right now, we're basically we designed it to be able to power glasses. I mean, that was the the purpose, but there's no rule that says that it can only be used to power glasses. So I think that that's an interesting thing to explore over time too. I mean, you can imagine, you know, something like this when you're sitting at home and watching TV being pretty cool too. So I I think we need to figure out what direction this goes in over time, but, this is a pretty good start.
Speaker 7:We've the
Speaker 3:display is gonna get all the attention, but the neural band is insane. I can't wait for people to try it. I mean, the fact that you can buy this in a couple weeks is just insane. Talk about the the team's foresight around the the intersection of glasses and AI, because now it seems incredibly obvious. Right?
Speaker 3:It's like always on this live AI. But it wasn't that long ago that people thought these were like two different sort of like tech trees and they didn't see the convergence.
Speaker 7:Yeah. I mean, look, every new important technology needs a new class of devices in order to make it first class. And I think glasses have three main advantages that I think are gonna be just make them the ideal candidate to be the next major computing platform. One is that they help preserve this sense of presence when you're there with another person. I mean, you take out your phone, you're gone from the moment.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Glasses have the ability to bring that back. Two is that glasses, think, are the ideal form factor for AI. It's the only device type where you can let an AI see what you see, hear what you hear, talk to you throughout the day. Soon soon it's gonna be able to just generate a UI visually for you and your vision in real time.
Speaker 7:And then the third thing that glasses can do, it's really the only form factor that can bring together, you know, the physical world that you have around you with realistic holograms and blend those together. And, you know, I think it's one of the crazier things about living in the modern world is that we have this incredibly rich online world Yeah. And you access it through this, like, five inch screen most of the time. So I I just think that it's it's, like, only a matter of time before these two things are are basically fully merged and glasses enable all of that. So that's kind of been the plan all along.
Speaker 7:I mean, we, when we started Reality Labs or the the kind of precursor to it, I think it was back in 2014. It was basically like we went public and became profitable. And then that's when we started working on these longer term bets. That's when I started FARE Yeah. For our AI research and we started the precursor to Reality Labs.
Speaker 7:But No. I think that these two tech paths really kinda go together.
Speaker 1:I noticed you, took a picture of Bozz's shoes on stage.
Speaker 7:Yeah. They were nice shoes.
Speaker 1:They're they're fantastic shoes. We saw them on the stream. Talk about what personal super intelligence means longer term. Is there a world where I'd be able to take a picture, look at your watch, say that looks like a good gift for my business partner, find it, order it, send it to him.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Well, I mean, look, I I think where we're really going with personal super intelligence and and the glasses, it's more the live AI vision that I talked about. So right now with the glasses, you basically, you can invoke that AI. You can say, hey, Meta. You can, you know, do the the gesture with the with the the neural band, bring it up.
Speaker 7:But you can ask it a question. But I think where this is going over time is basically you're going to have it's just gonna be on all the time. Right. And you'll be able to turn it off and you'll obviously be able to have control over it and all that. But but you'll be able to think about AI as more something that is just running all the time.
Speaker 7:Yeah. That has context on your conversations. If there's something that comes up in a conversation that it thinks that you should know as you're having the conversation, it'll be able to go off and think and find the answer to that and then just show it in the corner of your vision. Yep. If it thinks of something that it thinks that maybe you should, you know, be reminded of after you're done with the conversation, it'll be able to go off and process that and come back.
Speaker 7:So I actually think that this kind of agentic AI vision of Yeah. It having context to what's going on in your life and then being able to go off and do work for you and then bring that into, your view when it makes sense, I think is gonna be really powerful. That that's made
Speaker 3:a conversation. It can sense that you're forgetting a word and it just pops you up.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 7:Yeah. Or it's gonna be My version of this, mean, I just ever since I've been thinking about this, I've just been running this thought experiment where every time I'm having a conversation during the day, I'm like, wow. Like, there's information that I wish I had during this conversation. I mean, the most annoying thing to me is like you're having a conversation, It's like it you need to go check-in with someone else about something and then go back to the person you're talking to. Here, it's like, alright.
Speaker 7:You can just like send them a quick message with the neural band, get the information that you need. Right? It's it's kinda like multitasking on
Speaker 1:So you're like the best power user for this. I've run a couple brands. I've advertised on Facebook a bunch. I've advertised on meta platforms. What does what does the role of a brand look like?
Speaker 1:Is it shifting in the age of super intelligence? If everyone if all my customers have personal super intelligence, is is my experience running a brand gonna be different?
Speaker 7:Well, I think the brands are gonna become more important. Right? I mean, I mean, I basically think that, like, all kind of economic theory assumes that people have access to perfect information. And I think the Internet took us a step closer to that, and AI is gonna take us another step closer to that. But in a world of perfect information, what matters?
Speaker 7:It's like that people trust you and that you have a good reputation and that they know that you're, they know what your work is. So, yeah, I know. I think that the evolution of how people think about brands, I mean, that will but that'll obviously shift with every new technology. But, but I think it's only gonna get more important.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I feel like, there's there's already a little process where people find a product. They see it on Instagram, but then they might search the comments or go to their favorite creator. What does my creator friend think about this? And super intelligent being able to go around, do some of that for you, surface it all.
Speaker 1:That makes a ton of sense.
Speaker 10:Totally.
Speaker 1:Talk about the work with James Cameron and the future for virtual reality. How how many pairs of glasses do you think people will have in the longer term?
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's a good question. Interesting tension between condensing everything into a single pair of glasses, you know,
Speaker 4:at the
Speaker 3:same time humans love to
Speaker 1:Right. I've job.
Speaker 3:You don't wanna wear the same watch every day.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 7:Yeah. I I think that you're clearly going to be able to have a lot of interactive and immersive experiences on glasses, AR glasses. But I think the right analogy is kind of like augmented reality is the future of phones. Mhmm. It's the mobile thing that you're gonna take out with you.
Speaker 7:Mhmm. And I think virtual reality is the future of TVs.
Speaker 1:I like it.
Speaker 7:And and the the reality is is that, you know, the average American spends I actually think it's still they spend about as much time on a TV on a daily basis as they spend on their phone. Yeah. And but they're they're different use cases. Right? One is more immersive and interactive.
Speaker 7:I think they're both gonna be important. Yes. And the experiences are going to be limited by how much compute you have. The you are just gonna have less compute in in augmented reality glasses. I mean, you only have so much space to fit a battery and compute and and, like, the connectivity to whatever other device it's it's running is not tethered, right, because you don't have a wire.
Speaker 7:Whereas with VR, you just have more real estate. So it's kind of like the difference today between you have mobile games on your phone and then you have much more advanced games on a gaming console or a PC, which can have a lot more processing. I think the same is gonna be true here. You're gonna be able to have great experiences on the glasses kind of like akin to your phone. You could do pretty much anything.
Speaker 7:You can watch videos on your phone, do whatever. Yeah. But but if you want the kinda most immersive version of it, I I think that there's gonna be a dedicated thing for that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You're using the Meta Ray Ban display on the way to the office, reading some emails, you might sit down at the desk, walk in. Right? Yeah. I think it's time for a size gong.
Speaker 3:You have some big announcements today.
Speaker 1:We'd love for you to hit this gong for us.
Speaker 8:There you go.
Speaker 1:Congratulations on Meta Connect 2025. Oh, sorry. Fantastic. We would love for you to sign this as big as
Speaker 4:you the gun?
Speaker 1:We want it around retire. Game signed. We're gonna retire this and hang up.
Speaker 7:The gun. This is to see you. The rafters. Alright. There you go.
Speaker 3:Thank you so much. Congratulations.
Speaker 7:Thank you. Good to see
Speaker 1:you guys. Have a great rest
Speaker 3:of your day. Thank you.
Speaker 8:See you guys. Fantastic
Speaker 1:watch, by the way. Thank We will bring on our next guest, but let's first tell you about Figma. Figma.com. Think bigger, build faster. Figma helps design and development teams build great products together.
Speaker 1:We have our
Speaker 3:people standing over here that are It
Speaker 1:is crazy.
Speaker 3:Waving at socks. It's crazy.
Speaker 1:This is our biggest live show ever for sure. Lots of people here. We have Alex Hemmel joining next couple minutes. Okay. We're gonna hang out.
Speaker 1:Alex Hemmel's the VP of wearables. We will but what oh, show the gong? We wanna show off the gong. Mhmm.
Speaker 3:Careful here. Game hit. Game hit. Game
Speaker 1:The game hit gong. This will be retired to this one. Right here. This one?
Speaker 3:This camera over here. There we go.
Speaker 1:Look at that.
Speaker 3:Game hit. Here we go. Mike Zuckerberg signature on it. Love to see it. We are building the museum of technology business back home.
Speaker 3:Yes. And that will be a staple.
Speaker 1:I like that. I think the the agentic commerce thing is going to be a big discussion over the next year. We saw OpenAI teasing it. There was that leaked screenshot or, like, say, was an unintentionally leaked screenshot of, like, ChatGPT having an orders tab. Google's obviously thinking about that.
Speaker 1:Semi
Speaker 3:analysis about having perfect information. Right? Yeah. The Internet is so that consumers could easily research a product. Right?
Speaker 3:You could be at a store, look up reviews, what does the creator think about it. Now, it's like even less friction and that you can just be looking at something and you be pulling up like, hey, Andrew Heumann, actually doesn't like not a big fan
Speaker 1:of it. Yeah. It was funny when you were saying, like, I'll have my credit card saved with Meta, and I'm pretty sure they they probably have, like, hundreds of millions of people that already have credit cards. Yep. I I already have one saved from the Meta AI app because I put one down to buy stuff in the Oculus Quest store a long time ago.
Speaker 1:We have Alex Himmel coming on the stream next. Award winning.
Speaker 3:Looks like Yeah.
Speaker 1:It looks like he won an award. Let's bring him on the stream whenever he's ready. Thank you for tuning in to TV PM live from Meta Connect twenty twenty five. We appreciate you. Here we go.
Speaker 1:Let's bring on Alex Himmel. Welcome to the stream. How you doing?
Speaker 2:Good to
Speaker 4:see you.
Speaker 3:Fresh off a run.
Speaker 1:Fresh off sharp. Throw this on. There you go. Yeah. Having fun.
Speaker 1:Congratulations on the day. Absolutely massive.
Speaker 3:And let's get that mic down. There you go. Perfect. Alright.
Speaker 10:We in position? Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yep. Okay. Take us through your Look
Speaker 3:at We we we
Speaker 1:Oh, yes.
Speaker 3:By the way, we were we were bummed. I wanted to open the show with the Vanguard, but they
Speaker 1:were They're the Vargas. But those will be those will be Jordy's daily driver.
Speaker 10:What time did you open up?
Speaker 2:04:30.
Speaker 1:We started at 04:30.
Speaker 10:Oh, yeah. That's right. Know? I say, you could wait, like, one more hour.
Speaker 3:I know. Know. Would've been okay. Walk
Speaker 1:me through your your role, how you fit into the organization, what what what you need to do specifically to get all the products out today?
Speaker 10:Well, today's a big day for us. I lead the wearables group at Meta, and we announced a whole bunch of wearables today.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Few things.
Speaker 10:We had we had a few things. Yeah. Usually, we announce one device, but today was a real stack up of we had if you like the Ray Ban Meta Glasses, we had software updates for them and we had brand new Ray Ban Meta Glasses generation two with tech improvements for the battery life, the image quality, got an AI mode for the camera. Mhmm. Talked about the Oakley Meta Houston's, the Oakley Meta Vanguard's, which I'm wearing, which are designed for sport, which is pretty exciting.
Speaker 10:And then, of course, our first pair of display glasses and
Speaker 3:Don't forget the neural band.
Speaker 10:Yeah. I'm wearing. I've been wearing it all day.
Speaker 1:What lessons are you pulling from from previous meta projects around wearables, hardware, supply chain? Like, there's there's new challenges, but I feel like you've done a lot of this stuff before. Those are my kids over there.
Speaker 10:Oh, hey. They're good. They got better. Got ready to rock. I love them.
Speaker 10:They're looking great.
Speaker 3:Yeah. What's the
Speaker 1:Well, yeah. We gotta get a small pair for the kids at home.
Speaker 10:I know. I know. Well, so we've been working at SOIL Exotica for a few years now. Yeah. And our first generation was the Ray Ban stories, and then and those didn't do as well as we had hoped.
Speaker 10:Then Ray Ban meta, the gen two really exceeded our expectations.
Speaker 1:What was the what was the metric? Was it just the overall sales or churn? Because I feel like whenever we're talking wearables.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, you know, Christmas comes, top of the app store, and then it's we gotta we gotta get the retention up, and it feels like the latest products are finally passing that Yeah. That retention, and we're not
Speaker 3:seeing Delivery. Churn.
Speaker 1:People are using Is is that how you measure success these days?
Speaker 10:Yeah. I mean, there's the metric. So we're pretty metrics driven as a company. We we do look at retention. We like j curves.
Speaker 10:That's what we do. So the x axis is, you know, the days after you've purchased.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 10:And the y axis is the percent still retained. Yep. So we're looking for that to Yeah. Be be high and be flat.
Speaker 1:So if you look at the if at the advantage between the original the original meta stories and then the meta Ray Bans, was there a jump in that twelve month ret retention?
Speaker 10:Yeah. Just picture two lines and one was way higher.
Speaker 4:Way higher than the other.
Speaker 10:And and I think it's just the image quality was good enough to be able to share on Instagram and WhatsApp Totally. Elsewhere on your phone. The audio quality was good enough to answer calls, listen to music. Yeah. And then the form factor, it was subtle improvements, but we grind away at millimeters and milligrams, and they were, you know, just a little bit more comfortable, a little bit lighter, and it was the small things that added up.
Speaker 10:And we've built on that for the new generation we're launching. We're pretty excited about the full lineup. Yeah. I think these Oakley Medevangards, I think they're gonna be a hit. Yeah.
Speaker 10:I've been using them for a few months now. They're waterproof.
Speaker 3:Now, this this feels like something that I don't know. I was like, every guy in my friend group is gonna want one
Speaker 4:of these.
Speaker 10:Right? And I think They look great on women
Speaker 1:too. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Know. But specifically, I mean, like, for for me, when I think about, like, as a kid, I was like, I wanna buy a pair of Oakleys that just have that iconic shape. Right? And I can just remember doing them in all the activities, whether it was running, or hiking, or skiing, or snowboarding.
Speaker 3:Right? It's like, this is gonna be something that you're gonna be seeing
Speaker 2:everywhere out in the real world.
Speaker 1:Who's faster? You or Mark?
Speaker 10:Well, we came in around the same time today. No. We were
Speaker 3:It was Ty.
Speaker 11:It was We
Speaker 10:both met.
Speaker 1:We We both were
Speaker 10:Yes. I'm still dressed from the run crew on this way, and we had 30 people wearing the vanguard since taking a video. So we're gonna have some good footage. Mark's pretty fast. Don't bet against him.
Speaker 1:Yeah. He's got he's got a serious serious workout routine
Speaker 8:right now.
Speaker 10:I knew he was gonna set the pace. I wasn't sure what pace he was gonna set.
Speaker 1:Well, we know he's the he's the fastest handwriter at Meta, but I don't know if he's also the fastest
Speaker 10:Oh, I mean, not not only is he doing 30 words per minute there,
Speaker 1:I don't
Speaker 10:if you noticed. He was saying something and writing It's
Speaker 1:a lot
Speaker 10:going on. That's a lot going on with that,
Speaker 3:which is pretty impressive. Talk about some of the partnerships on the sort of, like, active side with wearables. I know you have the Garmin partnership, Strava. What what like, how did those come together and what else are you thinking on that front?
Speaker 10:You know, Garmin makes the best smartwatch in the world. I've been wearing Garmins for over fifteen years. I do, marathons. I I've done an Ironman. Like, I've I've been a heavy Garmin user and, you know, they sell a lot of watches a year.
Speaker 10:So they're you have good penetration in the market. We're thinking, hey, if we're building a pair of glasses designed for sport, who better to partner with than Garmin? And it opens up auto capture, which is gonna be a really big thing that's really fun. So if you go for a long bike ride or if you go for a run, we had it set up for this run, so we were taking a short video every quarter mile automatically from the glasses. And then it stitches Yes.
Speaker 10:Together in a reel at the end of it. And, like, my, like, hero scenario is you run a marathon, you set it up to take a short video at every mile marker. So it's 26 I mean, 27 videos. You want one to finish that too. Then it stitches them together, and then you've got a, like, a fun, shareable reel at the end of it.
Speaker 10:And to do that, you know, we're using the location triggers from the Garmin watch to make that possible. I think we can do a lot more with Garmin. There's a lot of scenarios that are enabled, but, we're very excited about the initial.
Speaker 1:How important is it to actually distribute compute across your body? Because you could potentially stuff all this in there, but then you get some big heavy headset. Do you wanna be leaning on other parts of the body to to have sensor data and whatnot?
Speaker 10:I think so our strategy is, you know, I believe in familiar form factors. Yeah. I think that over the course of hundreds and thousands of years, people have gotten used to wearing different devices and like the ergo the ergonomics are dialed and it's taken a lot to get there. And so we're trying to lead in that. People wear watches Mhmm.
Speaker 10:But in order. Just about every I I can only think of like two people in the world who don't wear glasses. Sunglasses are optical. Yeah. Watches, just about everyone.
Speaker 10:Yeah. You know, and they kinda go from there. So we're excited about those form factors and what they enable. And runners and people doing sport have been wearing watches for forever. Right?
Speaker 3:Well, thanks so much for coming on this Alright.
Speaker 10:Thanks for having me, guys. Cheers.
Speaker 1:We'll talk to you soon. Let me tell you about Julius AI, the AI data analyst that works for you. Join millions who use Julius to connect their data, ask questions, and get insights in seconds. Julius.ai.
Speaker 3:To figure out where to innovate. We don't wanna innovate on form factor.
Speaker 1:Yep.
Speaker 3:We don't even really wanna innovate on design. Right?
Speaker 1:Yeah. And Welcome to the stream. How are doing?
Speaker 3:Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Let's put that on. On. Welcome to the stream. This is Rocco, the chief wearables officer.
Speaker 8:Here you go. Good luck, Sonic. Hi.
Speaker 4:Here you go.
Speaker 1:Big day. Congratulations.
Speaker 8:Very big day.
Speaker 1:Would you mind taking us through take us back in history. Tell us the story of that original cold email to Mark Zuckerberg. How did that happen? What inspired it? Walk me through that.
Speaker 8:And, you know, you know, like, the company, obviously, is, like, the market leader in in in Iowa and always had a passion for technology. And so, like, one one day, you know, like, I I decided, you know, we I decided, you know, really to pitch, you know, like, a bunch of technology company. And the way that I was doing it is actually Google, you know, their email and of executives. So, like, you know, like, of them was actually Mark. So And the email at the time was Zach at Facebook.
Speaker 8:So, you know, like, I wrote this email in which, at the end of the day, actually became what is Ray Ban Meta now. Wow. But the idea was simple, you know, like, having an amazing recognized design of that's the Wayfarer and the most recognizable brand in the world, which is Ray Ban. But at the time, I think my collaboration was only on Instagram, and then Mark convinced me that, you know, it was like, you know, like, we we had we had to do it something bigger with all the the different platform. And, yeah, like, you know, after that call email, Mark replied to me after three days.
Speaker 3:Pretty fast?
Speaker 8:Pretty fast. And, you know, then we met and then, you know, like, you know, like, before we launched something, it took probably a couple of years.
Speaker 10:Yeah. Know Go pretty fast.
Speaker 8:Yeah. It was pretty fast, you know, like
Speaker 3:But it's nice when you don't have to innovate innovate on the design. Right? It's so key to just be able to focus on, like, what is the value, what is, you know, getting the technology right.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I think that was honestly the key of the success and it's still the key of success today. Mark, today, even on the presentation, said glasses needs to come became needs to be like beautiful glasses before anything. And then you almost find the technology as an added value. So, yes, we started, you know, with the most recognizable frame, the wafer, raven, and the technology is the magic that we baked in the product.
Speaker 3:How do you think about scaling production the way that these are priced? I think they're gonna be selling fast.
Speaker 8:Yeah. I mean, you know, they are, like, free. Obviously, the let's say now today, you really will launch free free architecture. You know? Like, you have the eyeglasses, the new generation, Ray Ban Meta Gen two.
Speaker 8:Then you have avant Avangard, you know, it's it's a it's a sport architecture. And then you have the display glasses. And, you know, I do think, you know, like, it's already scaling AI glasses, camera plus audio, and it's doing really well. So we are very proud of the already the success we have in the market. We're gonna build on that.
Speaker 8:You know, Oakley is the second brand that we introduced to the family that that really defines the category with the ribbon. And then, you know, we're gonna probably introduce more brands after that. And then, you know, and you you saw, I guess, you probably tried Orion, your more advanced
Speaker 3:Yeah. The thicker.
Speaker 8:Exactly. That's, you know, was always Mark's dream. And, you know, like and we started to do, at the time, Reiband Story, now Reiband Meta, and, you know, which is a much simpler product. But the vision is still there. The dream is still there.
Speaker 8:So that's we're gonna get, you know, to hopefully, the glasses will be the next computing platform. And that's, you know, that's the kind of in between.
Speaker 1:You
Speaker 8:know? Yeah. So Do you
Speaker 1:think there's room or products in your portfolio that still have the Ray Ban or a classic silhouette, a classic style, but they just give the technologists more space to work with? It feels like until we can miniaturize everything, there's value in having more space to work with.
Speaker 8:No. You're you're absolutely right. That's, you know, the, like, the the most critical thing, you know, the miniaturization
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 8:Of the technology. Thank God, you know, what is happening is something interesting that, you know, actually glass is chunkier glasses are now a trend.
Speaker 3:Yep. That's
Speaker 8:helpful. I think we are right on the on the Good timing. Good timing. So and, yes. But, you know, the goal is obviously to reduce the form factor to a smaller form factor even with display.
Speaker 8:And you saw even, you know, Vanguard, beautiful glasses, great form factor, you know, but every everything needs to be smaller. I think we did very well, and then, you know, we proved that it's doing really well on the product of Raven Meta. And we need we will get that even with the the other generation and other platform.
Speaker 3:One step at a
Speaker 1:time. Well, thank you so much for coming on, Michelle.
Speaker 8:Thank you, guys. It's a of exciting news.
Speaker 1:This is great.
Speaker 8:Cheers, Neil.
Speaker 1:We'll talk to you soon. Have a great rest of your day. We are ready. Privy. We have privy.io.
Speaker 1:Privy makes it easy to build on crypto rails. Certainly, securely spin up white label wallets, sign transactions, integrate
Speaker 3:The official wallet. The infrastructure
Speaker 1:all through one simple AI API. We'll be telling you more about Privy. And we have Yeah. James Cameron. James Cameron.
Speaker 1:Yes. Good to meet you. I'm John.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the show.
Speaker 1:Pleasure. We're gonna have you throw this headset on. They are. They are. I think once you put them on, you'll be able to hear us.
Speaker 3:Ah. There we go. There we go. Peace.
Speaker 1:Perfect. Thanks so much for taking the time.
Speaker 5:Yeah. No problem.
Speaker 1:Really excited. I am a VR is overhyped one year, underhyped one year. I remain extremely bullish about the idea that I will be watching Cinema. Cinema in virtual reality. Right.
Speaker 1:Am I crazy?
Speaker 5:No. Not at all. No. I think you're right on the money. I had a kind of a pivotal experience when I saw the Quest three Yeah.
Speaker 5:With my own content on it. I mentioned it in my remarks. It's like, I know what that's supposed to look like and it's this. Yeah. Right?
Speaker 5:Yeah. And, know, theaters are hit or miss in quality. Yeah. But with the quality control on the device, you're always gonna get that brightness level. Yeah.
Speaker 5:That brightness level can be an order of magnitude greater than a movie theater. Oh. You know? Think about it.
Speaker 1:I had no idea.
Speaker 5:So movie theaters are supposed to run 16 foot Lambert's, which is a metric like knits. Right? I don't know how many knits it's equivalent of. Yeah. And that's based on the SMPTE kind of engineering standard for the movie industry.
Speaker 5:But very few of them do and they're mostly down around 10 or nine or three. Yeah. So at three, you know, you're literally at a tenth of what the what the the Quest series displays do. Yeah. And so to me that's phenomenal.
Speaker 5:So brightness is obviously not the only metric. You've got spatial resolution. Right? Field of view Yeah. All that.
Speaker 5:How close can you be to the screen? And I just think it hits a sweet spot.
Speaker 1:Yeah. People talk about, like, you need to watch it as the filmmaker intended. Right. And, like, this stuff didn't exist when you created the film, so we can't satisfy that perfectly. But at the same time, we're getting to a point where you can recreate the theater experience.
Speaker 1:Right?
Speaker 5:Yeah. And and, look, hopefully, if if if this becomes a pivot for people to see to take their entertainment media
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 5:You know, on VR, AR, MR, whatever you wanna call it devices. Yeah. Not the glasses. The glasses are are obviously a separate thing. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yep. And they're cool.
Speaker 1:They're very
Speaker 5:cool in their own right. And I saw the the newest ones demonstrated today. Unfortunately, not at the demo Yeah. On the stage. But, you know, I mean, I can vouch for that.
Speaker 5:Stuff's amazing. You've probably seen it already.
Speaker 4:Right? Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 5:Yeah. What'd you think? What'd you think?
Speaker 3:I mean, yeah. We've we've been blown away by the demos broadly. My my question is, how should the film industry respond to progress in VR? I think because clearly you're paying attention, but probably to a level that that, the rest of the industry isn't.
Speaker 5:Yeah. I think VR is a broad term and it's constantly getting redefined and I think when you hear VR, the average person thinks, okay, gaming, okay, immersive, I can look all around sometimes
Speaker 3:But even just think of it as like the the next television platform. Okay. Right.
Speaker 5:So let's let's narrow that down to it being essentially a media player in stereo. Because the the Yeah. Gorgeous thing, the elegance of this is that a a good VR headset is a stereo display. Yep. Right?
Speaker 5:And it may be the best stereo display. And what did we have previously? We had TVs that didn't work Yep. Right, where you had to find a sweet spot and you couldn't watch with other people, all that crap. And then you've got cinemas that are that are hit or miss.
Speaker 5:Some are dark, some are some are fine. Right? People love the cinema experience. I pray I hope and pray that never goes away, but I want people to see what what I created and so, yeah, so I think that if you think of VR as an innately stereoscopic display device, then that's a differentiator from the best big eighty, ninety inch flat flat panel screens or and most people consume their media on smaller devices anyway. And the thing is this gives you the the feeling of a large screen.
Speaker 5:Yep. And you can you can spatially adjust it. You can you can move it in close or you can just keep moving it out and expanding it until it spatially feels like you're in a bigger display space. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And so and so some a filmmaker today, they need
Speaker 6:to I assume didn't answer your question.
Speaker 3:But but and and this is a cool thing is, like, you know, maybe when you were getting starting your career, you couldn't assume that the Quest three was gonna No. Ever come even But though it was sci today filmmakers today should assume that in thirty years, everybody's gonna be able to watching in in in that type of experience.
Speaker 5:I think filmmakers and and I'm I'm less honestly, this is gonna sound a little weird coming from me. I'm a little less interested in movie makers because they can't generate the content quickly enough. What I'm interested in is live feed of sports, any form of live entertainment, you know, concerts and so on and short post episodic Mhmm. Because we can get that out there quickly. By next year or the year after, we can get that stuff out out there on mass.
Speaker 5:Right? So I'm interested in showrunners that are doing hit shows. I don't wanna I can't I said this in my remarks, I can't create enough content to to move the needle individually. Yeah. But I can act as a catalyst by providing the tool set to any production anywhere that wants to just say, okay, well, we're already here.
Speaker 5:We got a crew. We got some actors. We got some lights. We can do it in three d. The only reason they don't is because there's no defined distribution model.
Speaker 5:But that's coming. That's what the the Disney plus agreement with Meta Horizon TV, Horizon TV itself, you know, it's everything's gonna change in the next eighteen months.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Are you most excited about, in AI at this very moment?
Speaker 5:Which type of AI are we
Speaker 4:talking about?
Speaker 3:Specifically in a filmmaking Okay.
Speaker 5:So, for filmmaking, we're talking about generative AI. We're talking probably about, you know, text to video and other, you know, video to video and and and that sort of thing. I'm I'm guarded because I think it's an answer to how we bring down costs and become more efficient.
Speaker 1:I was gonna ask, do you think there'll be more, like, $10,000,000 films made relative to a $100,000,000 film? Does it change the shape of what's getting funded?
Speaker 5:I think what you'll get I think it's gonna affect the middle to the high end of the curve in the following way. Most films involve VFX now. Yeah. Right? And it's gonna affect the toe of the curve.
Speaker 1:Yep. Makes
Speaker 5:sense. But the but the lower part of the slope is not gonna change that much and I say that because if you're not using VFX, you're not gonna enjoy a great reduction in your overall cost. Caters
Speaker 3:You'll have actors.
Speaker 5:Grips, you know, I mean grips, dollies, the normal stuff that a small production uses if they're not doing VFX, you know, how are gonna make catering cheaper
Speaker 8:Yeah.
Speaker 5:With with with AI? You're not. But, I say the toe of the curve because where filmmakers used to come in through, I don't know, music videos or low budget horror films and things like that that that that entry portal has shrunk so much in recent years. Yeah. Gets so difficult for filmmakers to get a toehold.
Speaker 5:But now, you can basically make a movie by yourself. Yeah. We have a
Speaker 1:friend who for very small budget made a full sci fi film. Yeah. And which is not which would not be by he would have been single location, one house horror film a couple years ago.
Speaker 5:Exactly. So now
Speaker 1:We gotta go. What does
Speaker 5:that guy do next? Yeah. He takes that to a studio and he says, now give me a budget. Right? I don't think anybody that wants to be a filmmaker wants to replace actors and replace the process of filmmaking, but it gives you a a new entry point into that business.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much. Don't Last question. Okay.
Speaker 3:I ask how do you work? What makes your approach to your work unique? I don't know.
Speaker 5:I just I just ask myself, what do I what would the 14 year old version of me want to see? And then I do
Speaker 1:it. I love that. That's amazing. That's a great that's a great mantra. Thank you so much for coming on the show.
Speaker 1:We really enjoyed this. Cheers. Have a great rest of your day. We have Vishal Shah coming on the show next. He is the VP of the metaverse, VP of metaverse at Meta.
Speaker 3:The mayor of the metaverse. Welcome the show.
Speaker 1:How are
Speaker 3:you doing?
Speaker 1:Good to meet you.
Speaker 16:'s it going?
Speaker 1:It's good. You had some amazing predictions four years ago. You said that in the future, you'll just be able to prompt and generate an entire world, and it feels like today, we're getting very close to being able to do that. Yep. Did you were you just following all the research really closely?
Speaker 1:Was this just a broad sci fi thing that you just knew was gonna happen?
Speaker 16:A bit of both. Okay. I think, you know, if you look at the entire metaverse vision, it's rooted in where we think the future of Yep. Immersive entertainment. You know, you just talked to a legend, James Cameron, about where he thinks that's going.
Speaker 16:But also, we we just know generally as technology advances, lowering the floor Yeah. To help more people create things. That's just we did that with video on our phones. We think there's an opportunity on that for immersive experiences in in VR. We So both predicted where that was going, but also helped drive it.
Speaker 16:Yeah. That's the work we've doing on Internet of AI for years. There's the the new engine we build on Horizon. Yep. All this is in service of a prediction, but also a roadmap that we've set out, you know, four years ago when we rerun at the company.
Speaker 16:We said it was a a ten year bet. We're four years in on on that journey, and I think, we're making a bunch of different products.
Speaker 1:I feel like there's there's sort of like a a fracturing of technologies that are happening right now. Like, we we got a demo of a a Gaussian splat
Speaker 6:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Where you could take images and then walk around a virtual world. Didn't generate physics, didn't generate geometry. And then simultaneously, in a different demo, we were going from text to prompt to physical three d objects in something in in Horizon engine.
Speaker 3:In a game world?
Speaker 1:In a game engine.
Speaker 5:Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep. And so are these two things gonna come together at some point? Like, how do these things actually merge and on what timeline?
Speaker 16:Yeah. I mean, in general, with with things like this research, we both push the research forward on its independent path. We then find the way to productize that research. So Hyperscape, which is the the sort of Gaussian splat representation. That's been researched for some time.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 16:We productize that in as an environment. This for the first time we're bringing capturing, so anyone can put on a headset and capture a space.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And the immediate immediate reaction that I have is I never wanna like, if I'm looking at a house on Zillow, I wanna be able to experience it this second. Totally. And I feel like that's, like, right around the corner.
Speaker 16:And it's so magical, obviously, for things like that, but imagine a place that you know that you can't physically go to anymore. And then imagine bringing someone that you care about that also knows that place to that place.
Speaker 3:They are recreating memories. There's a when when I was getting the demo, I was thinking if if I have a good enough video of, like, you know, my my my one year old playing around ten years from now, I'm gonna be able to just generate a world of of that space. Right? Just almost relive it.
Speaker 16:And so this is kind of back to your question. It's you have to push the technology boundaries, but then the vision is very much to bring these things closer together. So it's not just an environment. It becomes interactive. It has geometry.
Speaker 16:You have collisions as you're moving around the space. You know, if you bring other people into this space. So we're laying out all the pieces. Some have made more progress, frankly, than we felt even four years ago, but the idea is that they all fit into one general vision for how we bring people together when they can't physically be together, and that's that's the the general thing we set out to
Speaker 4:do.
Speaker 1:Yeah. How how do you think about the different windows into the metaverse? We've seen we saw a demo today where there was, the you know, with traditional game engine world developed. Yep. We were able to interact it with it on a phone.
Speaker 1:I'm not sure if it was streaming from the cloud, but, you can clearly see that mobile is a path into a space that you could also explore on a quest. Yep. But is there a world where you could bring that through to the other family of apps?
Speaker 16:Short answer is yes. Part of the reason we Horizon to mobile by way, what you played today, that is not just streaming. That's a live game that's being edited and then you're playing it
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 16:Yeah. But the idea is that most people today Yeah. Don't have access to a headset. Sure. And so how do we give them a taste of what some of these experiences are like?
Speaker 16:Not as immersive Yeah. Not as as great as being in, but you can start to play with these experiences, see what they feel like.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 16:That's, you know, in the Horizon app today. We've started to see, well, okay, how else do people discover these experiences across the devices that they have and experiences that they're in? You're in Instagram, you're on Facebook, someone messages you something on WhatsApp, and can you just jump in really quickly? Again, not as good of an experience as jumping straight into an immersive headset, but this doesn't require you to make that leap on day zero. You get to kinda build a taste of what that looks
Speaker 1:like. Yeah. How are
Speaker 3:you sorry. James said he was extremely bullish on live entertainment Yeah. In virtual reality. Walk us through what that looks like over the next few years. A big part of what and it's,
Speaker 16:you know, so weird, like, follow James Cameron. Just I'm putting
Speaker 3:it up Back to Paul. He's your friend.
Speaker 16:He my friend, Jim. Yeah. Part of what we are working on together is not just building content. It's updating the entire workflow and tool chain for how content gets made so that it can be stereo by default. Yeah.
Speaker 16:So how do you shoot on in the field? How do you edit in a truck that's parked outside a stadium? How do you then broadcast that up to the cloud? How do you get that distributed? It's the entire tool chain.
Speaker 16:You need that to exist if you wanna do something immersive.
Speaker 3:You need more content so the products have better retention. Right? So every time you throw on a headset, you have something that's right there that that you haven't necessarily seen before.
Speaker 16:That's That's the key point. Something you can't do anywhere else. I can I can watch a game on TV and it's fantastic? I can't feel like I'm sitting courtside. I can't fly around a Formula One track as if I was a drone floating on the track.
Speaker 16:I can't actually even experience a race like that.
Speaker 3:Formula One, you're you're gonna gonna be able to drive on the real race. Right? Yeah. It's like And
Speaker 16:there's some sports that you can't actually see the whole Yeah. Yeah. Arena track That
Speaker 1:one's a great example.
Speaker 16:And so you can't actually experience that in the physical world the same way you could in headset where you can kinda move around the space, etcetera. So the point is, yeah, we have to update the tool chain. We have to bring experiences that you can't get anywhere else, but in use cases that people are familiar with. Gaming is amazing. This device is the best gaming device on the market, but not everyone's a gamer.
Speaker 16:So how do we expand the things that that people can do and see the differentiation that a fully immersive three d native device can accomplish? And that's a lot of the work we're doing together.
Speaker 1:How are you talking to brands about the metaverse these days? I remember there was I mean, the metaverse was, like, very hyped. Now it's kind of underhyped. I think there's actually really solid progress being made. We heard a story about IKEA selling a ton of product in the metaverse and roadblocks and stuff.
Speaker 1:And meta is known for, you know, any any brand as small as possible can go and participate. Yep. Are we how far away are we what what are your conversations with brands like?
Speaker 16:Yeah. I mean, look, four years ago, if you didn't have some metaverse chief something or another in your company, you were failing. Two years later, if you had a chief metaverse something or another in your company, you were failing. And so I think the hype is dead. Yeah.
Speaker 16:Your point, it's making a bunch of Yeah. Good.
Speaker 3:Great time to be involved.
Speaker 16:We've been making a bunch of progress Yeah. Kind of in the background. Today, a brand can come on. They can create the space in in Horizon. It's it's fully open UGC.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 16:But they have to have a reason. Is it the case that your physical footprint should just live in the virtual world one to one? Maybe. Can you do things that you can't do in the physical world? Yeah.
Speaker 16:That's interesting. But in these things, generally, then we follow the same pattern everywhere. Build something great for consumers. Make sure it's got some scale, retention. It it's growing.
Speaker 16:I think brands will find an opportunity to reach people where they are, but we need people first for them to actually care. And then is there opportunities for them to build a business and and to entirely new sets of businesses that can even exist in the physical world? That's absolutely the vision. But we just, you know, ten year vision,
Speaker 4:and I
Speaker 1:think we're making sense. Yeah. What about the flappy bird of of VR Yep. Metaverse? How long until I mean, the demo we saw today felt like somebody who's nontechnical could get there.
Speaker 1:When are we gonna see this kind of rolled out? We're gonna see this explosion of, like, the the the early app store where every things that you guys could never come up with no matter how many people you hire, no matter how much we spend, you need the creative the creativity of a billion people.
Speaker 16:Yeah. No. This is exactly where we see the generative AI stuff going. Yeah. It isn't you know, the prompt doesn't make something great.
Speaker 16:Yeah. You you have to have a good idea. You have to have something that is unique and and novel, but the speed of iteration can be dramatically faster.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 16:And you as an individual can do a thing that maybe you need an entire kind of skill set that you don't have today to go and build. That's the idea. The other really interesting thing, if you look at reels and you look at other video content, ideas are all just remixes of one another. Yep. So And it isn't There no new ideas.
Speaker 16:From scratch. Yeah. It's just like what is four different ingredients put together. And so we have some ideas on what we're gonna be doing there that we'll talk about more next year. But the idea is that it isn't all from scratch.
Speaker 16:It is somehow taking best ideas, putting them together, put your own spin on it, but then give you the tools to do that really easily versus having to build them all from scratch.
Speaker 1:Well, thank you so much for coming on the show. This is a fantastic conversation. Love you. We'd to be
Speaker 3:back. Progress.
Speaker 16:Thanks very much.
Speaker 1:Take care. More to talk. Cheers. We will talk to you soon.
Speaker 3:John, think about the opportunity the the metaverse opportunity. It was overhyped for a while. Yes. As the tech improves, a fashion brand being able to set up a retail store, put on meta understands your avatar. Yep.
Speaker 3:You just walk around the store trying stuff on, looking at a mirror like you're in a retail store, seeing yourself wearing the items. Like, the whole virtual virtual try ons have been overhyped forever, but having the demos you remember we were doing the demos earlier with Quest? It's like you could look around and it's not that difficult to to swap out. I could be swapping out your clothing, reacting to it.
Speaker 1:It it is the the competition is gonna heat up. I feel like I feel like people the all of the tech firms are gonna be taking wearables. I mean, they already are taking it incredibly seriously, but there will be a a redoubling of the efforts as as these products roll out and actually get in people's hands, and then developers start building on them. Like, this is the this is the, like, you can see with the Ray Ban displays, like, it's gonna be hard to ship an app on here, but once you start doing that, then you're really in that platform era Yeah. And you have the you have the beginnings of the ability to I mean, the going back to the
Speaker 3:it's like how how how much will it matter to be the first product in market with a a incredible, you know, display built in. Right? Can they get to that app store moment first? Yeah.
Speaker 1:It'll be a knockout drag out fight. As always. It'll be a lot of fun. Anyway
Speaker 3:This has been insane.
Speaker 1:This has been insane.
Speaker 3:It's a party out there.
Speaker 1:There are tons of people here. Thank you so much for tuning in to TVPN at Meta Connect twenty twenty five. Hope you enjoy the
Speaker 2:stream. An honor.
Speaker 1:We will be back in the temple of technology, the fortress of finance, the capital of capital tomorrow, Hollywood, California. We will see you at 11AM Pacific.
Speaker 3:And before we go, I need to say we should say thank you to the whole Meta team. They have absolutely crushed. Yep. This they're putting little bit of heat on our production team back at home, obviously. Michael, Scott, Ben, and the whole team have been here helping out.
Speaker 3:But but the meta team has been absolutely incredible and has totally set the bar on what TBPN
Speaker 1:Never would have imagined imagined this when we first set up the microphones and cameras. 11.
Speaker 4:We were
Speaker 1:like, the whole the whole shtick is that it's just two people, no guests, not
Speaker 3:Paper.
Speaker 1:Yeah. An hour. Yeah. And then it's this. And and, you know, these things work in mysterious ways.
Speaker 1:But Yep. Tomorrow morning, we'll be back to just two people talking Talking shop. Hanging out. Anyway, thank you so much for tuning in.
Speaker 3:For tuning in.
Speaker 1:We'll see you tomorrow.
Speaker 3:We'll see you soon.
Speaker 1:Have a great rest of your day. Goodbye. Cheers.