28 Days Later (aka In Valium Veritas) with James Asmus

This is the podcast episode that launched a new obsession for Emily: Cillian Murphy in all his splendor.

Listen, this is a movie about fast zombies, but you're mostly gonna hear us talking about Cillian Murphy's extensive nudity and his sassy hips. We are joined by the amazing and incredible James Asmus and you should immediately go order his book "Survival Street: The Radical Left" coming out soon (or in the past, if you're listening to this later)!

Our recommendations for this episode are: Cillian Murphy's hips.

★ Support this podcast on Patreon ★

What is Progressively Horrified?

A podcast that holds horror to standards horror never agreed to. Hosts Jeremy Whitley, Ben Kahn, Emily Martin and guests watch, read, listen to, and check out movies, tv shows, comics, books, art and anything else from the horror genre and discuss it through a progressive lens. We'll talk feminism in horror, LGBTQ+ issues and representation in horror, racial and social justice in horror, disability and mental health/illness in horror, and the work of female and POC directors, writers, and creators in horror.
We're the podcast horror never agreed to take part in.

Jeremy: All right, this
one was a task to find.

The renaissance of digital media.

Uh, living so great.

Ben: But I thought the internet
was forever and not an incredibly

fragile storage medium.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I, I just want to watch all my
movies looking absolutely terrible

with 40 commercials in them.

Ben: I was able to find it after
just a little bit of searching

and keep an ad block very on.

Emily: Yeah, yeah.

Jeremy: Good evening and welcome to
Progressively Horrified, the podcast

where we hold order to progressive
standards it never agreed to.

Tonight, we're talking about the film
that changed and reinvented the zombie

genre and introduced us to Killian
Murphy, the skinniest action hero.

It's 28 Days Later.

I'm your host, Jeremy Whitley, and
with me tonight, I have a panel

of cinephiles and cine cinebites.

First, they're here to challenge
the sexy werewolf, sexy vampire

binary, my co host, Ben Kahn.

Ben, how are you tonight?

Ben: It sure does introduce us to Cillian
Murphy, and all of Cillian Murphy, just

dicking balls right out there for ya.

Jeremy: Yeah, my, uh, my version of
it was too pixelated to really get

the whole gist of Killian Murphy, but
I have seen this one before uh, yeah.

And the cinnamon roll of cinebites,
our co host, Emily Martin.

How are you tonight, Emily?

Emily: I'm doing good.

'cause I'm, I'm, uh, about to purchase
myself, uh, high quality edition

of 28 days later so I can see.

the, uh,

the full glory.

Ben: Character seen here having
a slightly better time than

Eccleston did filming Doctor Who.

Emily: there's a lot.

This, I was not expecting, this
movie has some, it's all great.

And then I was not expecting, and I've
seen it before, but watching it again,

I was not expecting to feel like weird
gender envy of, you know, running around

in, covered in blood killing rapists.

Like, I, you know, I'm like,
it's like, he's like a xenomorph,

but he only kills racists.

This is the best movie in the world.

Jeremy: Joining us for this shirtless
rapist killing tonight, our guest,

comic book writer and the writer of the
upcoming Survival Street, James Asmus.

James, welcome!

James: thank you so much.

Thank you for having me.

And I've really enjoyed the
show and I'm, I'm glad this

hit the sweet spot for folks.

I was excited to watch it again.

Ben: I am so excited to have you on,
and I am very excited to be talking

28 Days Later, which I really feel
like it has to be on that Mount

Rushmore of like, modern zombie movies.

Cheers.

James: Oh,

Ben: Like,

like, it's this, train to Busan,
like a few other things probably,

yeah, like shot of the
dead is definitely in there

James: But this was the one that sped
him up and really, like, it just,

it absolutely ratcheted that terror

so much higher when you, you think, like,
oh, I could survive a shambling zombie

apocalypse, but this, and just the,
like, instant turn of a drop of blood

or, you know, and they, the vomiting
of blood of a, it just it specified

its own zombies in a way that felt
additive to and not just derivative.

So it was, it was really
exciting and terrifying

Jeremy: You could almost hear Zack
Snyder in the theater going, Yes!

Ben: having never seen the movie,

Emily: he's like writing

Ben: the image of the drop of
blood going in Brendan Gleeson's

eye is like, I knew it was coming.

It was still, it was just that iconic.

But before we get too deep into 28
Days Later James, can you tell us a

little more about Survival Street?

Uh, what readers should know and where and
when they can find the upcoming release?

James: Oh, fantastic.

Thank you.

Yeah, this is the series is, uh, a
volume one came out and is available

collected right now from Dark Horse
and volume two starts in September.

And the core premise is in a very near
future where corporate lobbyists get

everything they want and they privatize
America and strip mine it for parts.

They, of course, close PBS.

So the very real fuzzy creatures
that make children's entertainment,

but are actually living, wonderful.

sentient beings.

They're out of a job, so a group
of them become an A team like band

of mercenaries going around and
saving kids from evil company towns.

So it's, uh, it's basically puppet
anarchist freedom fighters in

late stage capitalism dystopia.

Ben: What I like about that
is how apolitical it is.

James: Yeah it's, it's, uh, it was
something my co creators and I were,

Cooked up, kind of, peak pandemic in
the height of our anxiety as something

that could tackle, like, everything
that was driving us crazy and making

us terrified for the future, but with
puppets to make us feel better, and that

kind of represent, like, the sincere
compassion, sharing, empathy, everything

that capitalism is not offering us.

And so,

Ben: I, especially with
the Deaf of the Arts, guys.

I don't know about y'all, but I definitely
remember that period in 2020 where the

general vibe was just going around being
like, I HOPE THERE'S STILL A COMICS

INDUSTRY AT THE OTHER END OF THIS.

James: Exactly.

Yeah, with this, we, we sort of made
a 12 page thing on our own and we

weren't sure if comics would exist.

It was like literally while Diamond was
shut down and nothing was happening.

And so we just made it for ourselves
and to our shock and surprise, yeah.

Everywhere we pitched it was excited and
wanted to do it once things got started

up again, but Dark Horse has been a
wonderful home and that's a place that's

been doing weird creative books for the
since I started reading comics and so

I'd always wanted to do something there.

Ben: Yeah, well that sounds
awesome, and uh, so yeah, so

Volume 2 starts in September.

James: Yes, please,

it's available for pre order now and I
think if you like the progressiveness

of the show you'll dig, you'll dig
that Puppet Chaos we're cooking up.

Ben: Fantastic.

Alright, so now who's
got recap duty tonight?

Emily: It's me, baby.

Ben: Oh

Emily: Oh, yeah.

Um, I, I took a few,
uh, well, you know me.

Ben: What did you take?

A few of

James: Those pills that make you not care.

Emily: not enough of those.

Ben: sentence to just trail
off on before the end,

Emily: Listen, yeah, I was wondering
where my Valium was during this movie.

They were like, oh, here's your Valium.

I'm like, where's mine?

Ben: Oh, there

Jeremy: feel like this is a, I do feel
like this is a progressively horrified All

Stars movie, because we have both Danny
Boyle directing and Alex Garland writing.

Like,

this is before Alex Garland was a
director, uh, before he was doing

Ben: fuck.

Jeremy: stuff.

Emily: yeah.

Jeremy: But then we got good old
Killian Murphy, Naomi Harris, who

I, I remembered watching this movie,
the incredible crush I had on Naomi

after watching this movie.

Ben: Oh yeah.

Jeremy: Christopher Eccleston, who I did
not know when I watched this movie and

watching it now was like, no, doctor!

Ben: He's great though.

He's a fantastic villain.

Emily: oh yeah, he's, he
still has that sorrow.

Ben: And Brendan Gleeson, seen here,
still not talking to Colin Farrell.

Jeremy: Wonderful.

Emily: Yeah, um, great to
have you back, Alex Garland.

I know this is like, before
all the other stuff that we

Ben: So, how much, like,

Emily: of

Jeremy: Alex Garland.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: this is Alex Garland's, what,
third appearance on this show?

Emily: At least.

It's

No, fourth, because we

done men.

We did Men, Annihilation, and Ex Machina.

Ben: Damn, yeah, wow.

Welcome around.

Yeah, Alex Garland really is a
progressively horrified all star.

Jeremy: I can tell you from the reviews
We won't be talking about civil war.

So, oh well

Emily: good.

Ben: If Alex Garland ever does a
movie with Adam Brody, holy shit.

Emily: With, with a
soundtrack by Trent Reznor.

Ben: Oh my god, just hitting, that's like
the Thanos infinity gauntlet of this show.

Emily: for real.

Um, yeah, no, no Trent watch today.

But we do have a Godspeed to
Black Emperor watch, which is,

Ben: Oh, the music in
this movie is incredible.

Like so many of my notes are just,
this song slaps, this is a banger.

James: I forgot how much I, I
haven't seen this movie in years

and like almost every sound cue I
could finish like the melody of it.

I,

it's so ingrained in just
my experience of the film.

Emily: Yeah.

And then I think a lot of it comes
from A, A sharp, F sharp, infinity.

Which is the Godspeed album.

Um,

Ben: Yeah.

Fantastic.

Soundtrack this

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: apparently next year
they're doing 28 years later, so

Emily: uh,

Jeremy: Danny Boyle and Alex
Garland are back babies.

James: Yep.

And Cillian Murphy's back too.

Ben: What?

Oh,

Emily: good.

I have, I hope to see him
crawling around covered in blood,

Ben: I know Jeremy Renner
is in 28 weeks later.

Emily: haven't seen that one.

James: Mean, he dies if that makes
it more appealing for you, so.

Emily: uh,

Ben: I like Jeremy Renner.

James: Okay,

Jeremy: Peace!

James: my son has decided, my 11 year
old son has decided he hates Jimmy Renner

for some reason, and it is like, with a,

Ben: That's hilarious.

James: an arbitrary passion, I
have not seen for like, any other

actor, and, uh, I'm not quite

Ben: Look as, look as someone who
is of, look as someone who will

tell you that birds aren't real.

Never seen one up close.

Uh, nobody has sometimes you
just gotta pick something

to believe in and go for it.

Logic be damned.

Emily: good luck with that, Ben.

All right, shall I get into this, uh,

Jeremy: Let's do it.

Emily: deliciousness?

Um,

Ben: we want to get into the aeronautics
of Toucan Beaks if you want me to

believe that load of horseshit.

Emily: I've met a toucan, all right?

I've touched it.

Ben: And I've been to Chuck E.

Cheese, that doesn't
mean I've met a mouse!

Emily: I, I mean, sure.

Ben: This is nonsense, this
is nonsense, this is go, go,

Jeremy: live in New York.

You've definitely met a mouse.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: That's true.

I bet I have met many
mice and rats in New York.

Emily: Yeah.

You've probably met some biker
mice from Mars in New York.

Okay.

So, this movie feels the, the,
Cinematography in this movie is like

having an anxiety attack in the best way.

We start with, speaking of
which, a current newsreel.

Except it's 2002.

But, you wouldn't be able to tell.

That's depressing.

Well, guess what?

That mood is not going to change

Ben: I will say once you get to the London
scenery, you can absolutely tell it's 2002

Emily: Well, that, yeah,
but like, you know,

Ben: Extremely 2002 ass billboards
and advertisements going on.

Emily: yeah.

So we have, uh, we begin in what I can
only assume is the future of the lab

from The Hunger, where they do horrible
experiments on great apes and monkeys.

In this case, the oranging chimpanzees
into becoming even more terrifying.

Bye.

While trying to do some animal
rights activism, some poor militants

catch the rage virus that the
apes got from watching Fox News.

Ben: Yeah, how are we feeling about animal
rights activists causing the apocalypse?

Emily: I mean, the road to hell is paved

James: that's a, that's what I thought.

Yeah,

exactly.

Good.

Emily: uh, yeah,

James: That the idea that people
mean, well, ultimately kick off the

disaster feels, uh, feels like a
lot of, um, Left wing experiences

of, like, just running forward and
tripping and falling on your own

sword.

Uh.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: I, the concept and it's not
spelled out, but it seems very much like

this is what they're suggesting in this
movie, that if you expose anything to

24 hour news television that it will
turn into a violent animal filled with

rage seems weirdly predictive of 2002.

Ben: It is a literal mind virus.

Emily: you know, this is
before social media, so

I'm

Ben: wonder what would've happened
if they'd been like, they'd bust it

in and it's like, They're infected.

With what?

Sad as fuck.

We made the most depressed ass chimps.

They'll bite, if they bite you, you will
also just be so, just, so goddamn sad.

Jeremy: I do have to say the, uh,

Ben: Like watching The
Notebook, not in a loop.

Jeremy: The apocalypse having a lot
to do with the fact that scientists

are bad at communicating with other
people really feels on the nose to me

that he's like, they're like, he says
they're infected and they say they stop.

And say, with what?

And if he had said, A horrible
virus that'll kill everybody, This

movie might not have happened,
But instead he said, RAAAGE.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: And they're

Emily: like, what is
this, killer instinct?

Ben: Man said that like he was
auditioning to be in that fucking

camp he first seen in Malignant.

Emily: Bless.

All right, so, yeah, the poor
militants, they get chimpanzeed,

and even, not just chimpanzeed,

rage virus chimpanzeed, which I really,

Ben: say, if you see a
chimpanzee, don't get near it!

Don't fuck with that chimpanzee!

Emily: no,

Ben: You cannot take a chip in a fight!

Emily: no,

James: Well, that's, that's why
Jordan Peele had to make Nope,

because people didn't learn it
after this movie, and so you just,

we had to reinforce that message.

Emily: yeah, or they apparently didn't
learn it about after the actual person

was, had their, her face torn off by

James: my god.

Emily: the

Jeremy: Every twenty years, Somebody
has to make a movie that's like,

Hey, Fucking leave chimpanzees alone.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: Don't do it.

Ben: Starting it this way does really
emphasize the degree to which it's

like, wait, why, how did this get
more out of control than rabies?

This feels very, this feels
more rabies than normal.

And remember how in real life that
one time a dog got rabies, and then

all of the dogs forever got rabies?

No?

Emily: yeah, well,

Ben: said, I do, I, I'm being facetious
just because if you didn't have a certain

level of zombie apocalypse, you don't
have a movie, and I'm just being, like,

an annoying little shithead right now.

But I, overall, I actually do really
love this movie for being one of

the more realistic zombie movies.

James: Oh, absolutely.

It feels terrifyingly plausible in

the setup, I feel like.

Emily: I

Ben: the idea that it's like, yeah,
we're gonna, we're gonna, especially

in 2024, the idea that the rest of the
world would just be like, Wait, wait,

wait, does that mean I get England?

Yeah, no, we're fine without England.

That's no problem.

James: Well, that's Europe post Brexit!

They're just

like, okay.

Emily: That's what they wanted.

Ben: shrug.

feels ve that feels very timely in 2024.

But

Emily: Well, the, and the fact that
this movie starts the way it does,

it's basically like, it's just,
it's a very clear thesis statement.

Like, there's not a lot of a
difference between the infected

and, you know, just upset people.

And, you know, and we, we get
to, we, we come around on that.

Anyway, so,

Ben: get that amazing moment at the end
where Naomi Harris can't tell if Cillian

Murphy is infected or just really badass.

Emily: Yeah.

Yeah, we'll get there.

Uh, okay, so, Rage Virus, cut 2, 28 days
later, after that, it's the title, and

also, it's a cut to 28 days later, which

James: I love stuff like that.

Too,

too, too perfect.

Ben: I want to know, the nurses
and doctors, what was the process

of leaving Cillian Murphy behind?

I can't imagine it was standard procedure
to like Yeah, let's get him like,

naked Jesus ing, and now let's bounce.

We we stole his hospital
robe, let's bounce now!

Emily: they were like, he's too pretty
to be real, we have to leave him here.

I can't handle his, like, brimming eyes.

James: it, yeah,

leaving him nude And not

like in a gown or anything.

It did make me wonder if that, if
they just have a different procedure

over in that different standards of
practices in the UK medical system,

or if they were just like, well, on my
way out, I got to get a look at this.

Ben: Is this how the NHS works?

Emily: think this is more like, we gotta
talk to Danny Boyle about his gaze.

Like, you know, I mean, he and I
can have a heart to heart and be

like, Hey, cool, I appreciate you.

Anyway, so Killian Murphy
wakes up naked on an operating

table in an abandoned hospital.

Power and phones are out.

There are signs of a struggle.

He walks the streets of an abandoned
London, trying to find out his situation

to the powerful overture of East
Hastings by Godspeed, you black emperor,

Ben: Oh, it fucking rules.

Emily: excuse me, Godspeed,
you black emperor.

That's how you say it.

Um, from the album F
sharp, A sharp, Infinity.

Check it out, um, wherever
fine books are sold.

So everybody's dead except
for the vicar, maybe.

Uh oh, no, he's actually a zombie.

There are zombies.

Angry zombies.

Fast zombies.

Zombies that can't stop and won't
stop unless you just explode them.

They'll be going on fire.

They're just

unstoppable zombies.

Basically people that are angry.

Ben: like you said, Jeremy, we
did Dawn of the Dead recently, and

those zombies are like, the height
of the shambling, can fuck around,

they are very easy to deal with.

Individually,

Jeremy: pie faced.

Ben: no threat whatsoever.

These zombies will make
you do fucking cardio.

James: Oh, I would die so fast.

I would, uh, I would die in two blocks.

Emily: I will, I'll just say
this, these zombies don't get

winded from going upstairs.

So, we're all fucking screwed.

Alright, so, the angry zombies,
the zombies that don't stop,

they're, they're after Killian.

He runs for his life, but is rescued
by a couple of young folk bedecked in

goggles, masks, and Molotov cocktails.

But hey, at least they're funny!

This is Mark and Selena.

Killian introduces himself as Jim.

We get the exposition.

Rage virus has turned most of the human
population into rage zombies or corpses.

There is no government.

Lesson one, don't go on anywhere
alone unless you have no choice.

Lesson two, only travel by
daylight unless you have no choice.

Infection takes hold in about 10 to
20 seconds and the only cure is death.

Ben: I feel like it's, again,
We talk about how things age.

2002, they're like, Fuck, no government.

2024, England's probably like, Shit, no
government, damn, can we get some of that?

James: Yeah.

I feel like they've just
been experimenting with

less and less government.

For the last couple of decades.

And so that's, it's, it's amazing.

You can make this many cautionary
tales and no one ever listens.

Emily: Yeah, well,
that's fiction, you see.

It's just fiction.

Fiction doesn't have to
do anything with anything.

It's just fiction.

Ben: watch so many movies and shows
with environmental messages and

being like, Hey, is the storytelling
accomplishing fucking anything?

Are we even shifting the Overton window?

Emily: We're trying, man.

Anyway, so Jim, Mark, and
Selena go to Jim's house to

see if Jim's folks are okay.

They're not.

They have died by suicide, complete
with a note begging that Jim

doesn't wake up from his coma.

That's fucking rough.

Ben: That was a wild note
to write, like, to find.

Emily: Oh my god, like, there's this
cute picture of him as a child as he,

like, discovers his parents corpses,
and then he looks over the back, and

they're like, please don't wake up.

Yeah.

this movie punches you a lot in the face,

James: this, but I, but
it's not like edge Lord

stuff.

It's it's so it's

so effectively knows how to play it's slow
down moments, how to give you a little bit

of hope, a little bit of humor, and then.

The terror absolutely hits,
like, it's a movie that's in full

control of what it's doing to you,

to add scope and depth and texture, and
then just get you right back in there

Ben: Edge Lord would have been like,
they get there and like, ah, the dad's

like gnawing on the mom's entrails.

And it's

really good.

Now you just got to, and it then just
gets like hacked up pieces off a machete.

It's like, and then Naomi Harris goes
like, this is the world now, Jim.

This is a movie that is smart enough
and mature enough to know like.

The sight of a loving couple
holding each other's bodies,

holding each other while clutching
this photo of their comatose son.

Of their then comatose

James: And having chosen to kill
themselves when they had each

other is that sign of how hopeless

Ben: it's kinder, and sweeter,
and so much more devastating.

Emily: Yeah, and I That's an important
thing to emphasize because like I'm

kind of brushing over the dialogue
that's happening in these scenes

because we're moving pretty fast here.

But, um, like the zombies,
but that's because we have to.

But we are spending a lot of time
with these characters as they're very,

very convincingly reacting with shock
and fear and nihilism and, you know,

all of these things that are, um,

Ben: Everyone's reaction makes sense.

Emily: Yeah,

yeah, and,

but,

Ben: nobody, even the soldiers and
villains, nobody is like, going like,

full like, Welp, time to put on an
eyepatch and go full Walking Dead crazy.

Like, everybody's react and granted,
we are only four weeks in, maybe

they would have developed their
Mad Max personas if we'd gotten

further into the zombie apocalypse.

I mean, Eccleston's character was
definitely veering in that direction,

Emily: oh, yeah, well, yeah,

Ben: reaction, at least on the
surface, we'll, we'll get there

at the end, like, makes sense.

Emily: yes, it makes sense,

Ben: um, there's emotional logic
and humanity to everyone's.

Feelings and actions.

Emily: And it makes it, it gives
it pathos, a kind of pathos that

previous zombie movies didn't really
create, except for maybe, like, Night

of the Living Dead, like, Night of
the Living Dead had a little bit of

that pathos, but it was very contained
where this was very, very urgent.

So after, uh, after they discover
the parents, they stay in the house.

We find out that Mark lost his family.

He has this whole, uh, story he tells
about how he lost his family in a crowd

and he had to climb bodies to escape.

And it's, it's brilliantly, Acted
like a lot of these things that the

solemnity and the the heartbreak
and it all is so well done.

James: That story is so effective.

I had misremembered that we
saw it like from thinking

about my memory of this movie was that you
see that scene just that he's telling you.

And it was one of the scenes I had
like gaslit myself into thinking

of whenever I thought of the movie,
because of how effective there's in this

time, I noticed there's a little bit of.

Audio scoring of, like,
screams and ambient sound from

when that happened mixed in.

And so, I don't know if it's that or
what, but it just, it totally got me.

And so that's another mark for,

Ben: It's so well

James: how deeply this movie,
like, dug into my permanent memory.

Emily: yeah.

They, uh, the party stays
at Jim's house that night.

Jim gets up to mourn his parents
and look through the kitchen and

he has this beautiful bittersweet
flashback which is interrupted

jarringly, uh, by a zombie attack.

Mark and Selena save him, but Mark
gets bitten on the arm and Selena

immediately, decisively hacks
him to death with her machete.

And that's that.

Jeremy: I appreciate that, like, he,
that he asks, like, How did you know?

She was like, I didn't, but
he knew, and I could tell.

Like,

that's like, that's how little proof she
needs, is that he was, that he hesitated.

And she was like, well,

Ben: And it's not like one decisive
stroke of a discretion shot.

Like no, we, we see her hack
marked to death with a machete

Emily: yeah, multiple
strikes, lots of sound.

Ben: I don't know if you've seen
machete deaths before, I sure hope not.

They suck.

It's a bad, it's a bad
death, death by machete.

James: But it's hard to heighten
a character that's introduced

throwing Molotov cocktails,
like, that's point one for them.

And they really they
really found it with her.

Cause that definitely

reinforced, don't count on
her to get sentimental for

Ben: well, yeah, when she says
she will kill Killian Murphy in a

heartbeat if she have to, has to, you
fucking believe it after that scene.

James: Absolutely.

Emily: so they move on Mark is left
behind, and, they follow a beacon of

lights on a tower block, showing that
there is maybe some proof of survivors.

Jim makes a comment about tower blocks
and grocery trolleys, which we'll be

talking about in our class section,
uh, which I think is interesting.

And they, uh, they climb over a
barricade of grocery shop grocery

trolleys, aka shopping carts.

Um,

James: Thank you.

Emily: you're welcome.

And the tower block is an
apartment building, by the way.

Ben: I was imagining a trolley train,
but it sold groceries through the town.

Emily: I wish.

Ben: That would be dope!

How dope would a traveling
grocery train be?

James: It's like the
modern Wells Fargo wagon.

Emily: Yeah,

yeah,

Ben: as fuck.

Emily: So they're climbing the stairs,
the, the endless stairs of this tower

block and the zombies come after them.

They narrowly escape with the help of a
stranger in a balaclava and riot gear.

This is Frank.

He is holed up with his daughter
Hannah in their block apartment.

They celebrate their survival
over mum's creme de menthe.

Jim gives himself a, an apocalypse
glow up now that he has a bathroom

with a mirror that doesn't, isn't
adjacent to his dead parents, we catch

a glimpse of Frank's desperate attempts
at survival, collecting water, etc.

And they find her

Ben: that is the most unrealistic
part of the movie, is that it hasn't

rained in England for ten days.

Emily: It's

Ben: will buy everything with goll
I will buy everything with zombies,

but you're telling me it hasn't
rained in ten days in London?

Fuck off!

Emily: It's the apocalypse.

The fucking weather got the rage virus.

It was mad at Britain.

James: Cause the, government
died so there's no one to

run the weather machines.

Emily: Yeah, it's true.

Ben: in London for a time.

At no point was there
ten days with no rain.

Emily: Climate change is a bitch.

Let me say that.

Anyway, so, uh, they do
discover a radio signal.

They had thought that there was no radio
or television broadcast anymore, ever.

And this is a recording promising
things like quote unquote salvation.

A quote unquote, answer to the
infection, a lot of quote unquotes

here, and quote quote quote quote
quote, soldiers for protection, quote.

Given that it is reporting, as well
as suspiciously vague, Selena is

doubtful, but it's better than living
on creme de menthe until death,

so they all head out Frank's cab.

Their route towards this the
barricade 42, we'll get there.

Um,

Ben: You think Frank already had all
that anti zombie riot gear, or did he

find it, like, during the four weeks?

Emily: I think he found it.

That man is devoted to protecting
his little girl and he is, he is out

there, like, beating zombies to death
with a shoe to get all that shit.

Anywho, so, their route leads through
a tunnel congested with wrecked cars.

Frank gleefully off roads his made
in Britain vehicle over a mound of

scrap, but predictably incurs damage.

Jeremy: This is the part of the movie
that makes me the angriest, cause

like, I am definitely the Cillian
Murphy in this situation, and I'm like,

yes, that's gonna take a little bit
longer, but why the fuck would we go

in a tunnel that's probably full of
broken cars and god knows what else?

Emily: Yeah, yeah,

Jeremy: And I know, I just know,
if I'm not driving, whoever's

driving is like, no, let's fucking,
let's do that, it'll be great.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: It's never great.

Emily: They drive

Ben: don't know why anyone
would go into like an enclosed

tunnel in a zombie apocalypse

That's just asking for trouble

Emily: why anyone would go into a tunnel.

Tunnels are scary to me.

Anyway I've seen, uh, men.

I saw the tunnel in that one.

That was scary.

They don't get attacked by a bunch of
uh, Admiral Badmintons, though, but

they do get flooded by rats as they re
as they scurry past, trying to escape

the, uh, the incursion of infected.

And now this party of four has to
perform the world's quickest tire change.

but they do escape, barely, to a
moment of respite where they raid

a grocery store and we find out
that organic produce is not going

to survive the zombie apocalypse.

Ben: for the one kind of Apple

Emily: Well, it's irradiated,
you see, so it's not organic.

James: Yeah,

deeply, deeply chemically
treated stuff becomes uh, gold.

Yeah, and especially when she was so
happy about eating canned oranges.

I was like, oh, that is dystopian.

To be that excited about canned oranges.

It was a real good bellwether for

how bad things

had gotten.

Ben: sure got some good product
placement in this movie.

Emily: during the zombie apocalypse,

choice for a new generation, the
last generation on the planet.

Ben: it sounds like because she has a lie
about how like she net like if she ever

has to eat another candy bar again So
it sounds like they've mostly just been

like rating vending machines up until now

Emily: Yeah.

so after the grocery ThingS
are kind of nicer a little bit.

They, okay, I'm going to
stop the podcast right now.

What's up with these, were these crunchy
ass flowers crunchy for everybody?

Like they drive past the field of flowers

James: oh, like visually?

Emily: yeah, the crunchiest
jpeg I've ever seen in my life.

James: it was so weird.

It looked like it had some kind
of, like, early 2000s Photoshop,

like, paint, like, turn a photo
into looking like it's a painting

filter.

It was very disorienting.

Emily: yeah.

I was like, fucking Soundgarden video?

What is happening?

James: Yeah,

Ben: They definitely felt like they
filmed this on digital film, and now we

can never, like, upscale it beyond 480.

James: Right.

Emily: The pixels are
ingrained in, it's part of it.

Ben: Yeah, like,

Emily: It's a stylistic decision
to have all those pixels.

Because

Ben: a stylistic decision.

The natural way to play this
is on a QuickTime player

James: Yes, exactly.

Emily: this is, this
must be shown on DivX.

Like you have to have, you
have to have DivX and, uh,

Ben: And if you don't get these jokes,
uh, become a millennial, I guess.

Emily: uh, look it up in B, yeah, or
you can just be into like old media.

I'd love to see the YouTube channel of the
like Generation Alpha folks that are like,

I taught this, uh, This Tamagotchi to play
DIVX or something, like, I don't know.

All

James: It's actually a fair
translation to get, to do your old

Winamp files on a, on a Tamagotchi.

Emily: um, but

Ben: How how has nobody, like, loaded
up, like, a smartphone's worth of

technology and AI into a Tamagotchi?

Like, that seems to be, like, the one
applicable use of it just being, like,

Look, we're making your Tamagotchis alive!

Emily: enough or dark enough.

Ben: I mo I want AI in
Tamagotchis, not my search engines.

Emily: um, actually,

Ben: actually, I don't want A.

I.

in my Tamagotchis either.

Emily: yeah, because those will be on the
Wi Fi and they'll be, like, watching you.

Anyway, so, after the field of crunchy
flowers, they go and get some gas.

Jim wanders off, finds an infected
kid, and has to kill them.

Ben: Nothing

good ever happens finding gas in a zombie

Emily: Tommy, timing out again.

Jeremy: is where I gotta timeout,
cause they lifted this scene

directly from Dawn of the Dead,

Emily: They

sure did!

Ben: fucking

Jeremy: M4A has this exact
same scene with a helicopter,

except he has to kill twin boys.

He kills two children, uh, and I was like,

wait, the gas station and the
killing the boy thing, like,

this is just, what are you doing?

Ben: Unapologetic.

Emily: It's why it's, Killian Murphy
didn't tell anybody, because he was like,

they were like, so what was going on?

Did you find anything?

He's like, no, I just wandered
into a different movie,

Jeremy: Like, it.

was exactly like that scene in Dawn of
the Dead, nobody will ever believe me.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: Yeah, and if he was to,
like, kill the kid who had been,

like, Like, in Dawn of the Dead,
that seems a little on the nose.

Emily: Yeah, but they can't
say zombie in this movie.

So, alas.

Ben: At least they don't go,
like, they don't call them,

like, Runners or something

dumb

Jeremy: say, they don't say the Z word.

Emily: but yeah, they
don't say the zed word.

No, no zed words here.

Uh, or led words.

Yeah.

So, uh, but the windmills are
still working and the, uh,

the countryside is beautiful.

They have a wonderful picnic at a
ruined abbey and appreciate some horses.

Selena has a

Ben: kind of thing that matters,
is those little moments of joy

in these apocalypse movies.

It is.

Emily: Yeah.

Ben: That's such a divider line, I
think, between some of these movies,

is the ones that know to savor
those moments of safety and joy.

Emily: Yeah,

James: reminds you, especially when
you get far enough in, you become

unmoored with like, what have we lost,
or just this whole world is terrible,

and these nice little touches that
remind you of what you're hoping to

return to, or what you have lost.

It's like it just reorients things in
an emotional and a relatable way, in

what otherwise is just becoming insular.

madness in,

in stuff that, that, that doesn't care
about the human balance of it all.

Emily: yeah, absolutely.

And, you know, it's
something that frustrates me

about, um, yeah about a lot of
other zombie movies, which are just

like, we got to kill our way through
things and we got to kill this and

we got to do that, kill that, and

Ben: This movie does a better job than
most of making these feel like people

that are infected with a disease and
not have died and turned into a monster.

Like, a lot of these, and again, a lot
of it's a very good, effective design.

More so than most zombie movies, there
is this sense, this want of like, of

being like, Maybe there would be a
way to cure people and bring 'em back.

Emily: Yeah.

James: Yeah, and, and the thing that,
that always, uh, bucked me about Dawn,

original, original, recipe, Dawn of
the Dead, is, uh, that some of that

zombie makeup, they are like, Bizarre

crayon box

Emily: yeah, yeah,

yeah,

James: like a green.

guy and two blue people.

Someone's purple.

And it's just sort of like, wait, now,
now they're not even like undead humans.

To me, this is some sort of

peculiar ghoulation

Ben: it was a whole other level
of goofiness that I was so into.

Emily: and it's all,

Ben: make it when they reach out and
they're like, oh, is that my loved one?

Let me run to them.

And it's like, he is blue.

Emily: Yeah, in this case, it's just
covered in the blood that they've been,

Jeremy: Now I will say, like
you're saying, with the infected,

they vomit up a lot of blood.

I'm not sure no matter what you
cured them of, that they'd have

enough blood to continue to

live if they

were not controlled by a weird

Ben: movie that also saw some Sam Raey.

They wanted some Evil Dead
level blood puking going on.

Emily: But Jeremy, you know that they
can just cure them by taking out all

of their blood and putting in new
blood, just like in, uh, Near Dark.

Because this is the science.

Yeah,

Ben: Dark ended.

James: Um, I

I

Emily: they'll slow
blink on Jeremy's face.

Jeremy: God, the end of Near Dark is bad.

Ben: Look, you just gotta take all
the bad blood and put in good blood.

James: but do you, do you on
the that is the original ending.

is literally they have this

animated storyboard.

No, they have an animated
storyboard where the

original ending was Killian Murphy's
character got infected and they, they

tie him down and they rush to a hospital
and they find other blood and they drain

him of quote, all of his blood and put
in new blood and they're like, yeah, we

worked on this one for a while until we
realized he would just die in the middle.

And we've established that one single
drop of blood, like turned Frank.

And, you know, so it, it seemed like we
kind of painted ourself into a corner.

It didn't make sense.

And we had to

Ben: I would've laughed so hard
if the ending of the movie was,

Well, we took out his angry blood
and gave him new happy blood.

Emily: I mean, that is the end of that.

That is how it near dark ends.

So, um,

Jeremy: him watch Bluey for 24

hours, you

know, The cure.

Ben: it doesn't really work
in Near Dark, but it works

better in Near Dark, where it's

already this kind of
southern gothic vampire

Emily: near dark is already

horseshit

Ben: vampires are already more

of this like, fluid transformation,
and then like, you know, you

still retain your individuality

Jeremy: nothing in Near Dark
makes much sense anyway, so.

Ben: yeah,

Emily: Any movie with Bill Paxton in it.

I'm not going to worry about the science,

James: the

weird science.

Emily: the weird or otherwise.

Yeah, that's

true.

Oh, fuck.

I forgot he was in that.

God.

Ben: I love, I mean, this movie
has the correct prediction of like,

sure it's the apocalypse, but I bet
fucking Simpsons is still going on.

Emily: Oh my god.

Oh my god.

Okay.

James: You're right!

This movie, this movie's predictive
score is like off the charts.

This has to be one of the most
multi directional, accurate.

Emily: I really need to

Ben: This is really approaching
Demolition Day, like, Demolition

Man levels of like, Cassandra.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: If they stopped along the
road and found like a Taco Bell

still open, I feel like that would be

Emily: Yeah, that is the

Jeremy: a tie between
this and Demolition Man.

Emily: in the uh, the, the cheeseburger
stop is not functional anymore.

So there's, that's at least,
you know, we have that.

All right.

So they're hanging out in the Ruined Abbey
and this little, uh, moment of breastfit

offers Selena a lapse in her nihilism.

She and Jim have a
little miniature smooch.

Ben: The Valium also helps with

denialism.

Emily: she, she loses the,
she has a lapse of nihilism.

She has a smooch.

Things can't be all bad.

They still have Valium.

And then they take the Valium.

And I would say You know, my, my non
professional, I'm not a doctor, I'm

not a, I'm not a drugologist, I would
recommend, though, that Valium is

the last drug you should take in the
zombie apocalypse unless you are in

a fort surrounded by trusted guards.

Trusted guards.

Jeremy: know, like, Jim managed to
stay alive in a hospital just by

being asleep for the whole time.

James: Well, they,

show, they show he was
locked in that room, and that

someone had slid a key under.

It's, it goes by really quick, but they

showed that someone had

locked him in, and left a key for him.

Ben: Okay, so that does imply that
there was a level of intention where

they were like, No, leave him naked.

He want

him naked.

Emily: that's what I'm saying, it's
like, maybe, maybe he'll save us, him

Ben: Someone made a conscious

Emily: his undercut,

Jeremy: they were halfway through
changing him when the apocalypse started.

They were

like, you know

what?

Emily: fuck.

Well, good, good on them to have the time.

They didn't have time to dress them,
but they had time to throw them a key.

Alright, so they, the

kids

Ben: like the idea that you could just
like, play dead and that would work.

If you just follow that they will just
rip that you can just rip Van Winkle

your way through the apocalypse.

Emily: I wish I could.

Jeremy: I mean, it's worked
twice in zombie media now.

Rick pulled off the same trick in

Walking Dead, so.

Emily: Oh, yeah,

yeah,

Jeremy: These two, within
a year of each other, Mr.

Kirkman, um, Walking
Dead, it came out in 2003.

Um, so

Ben: What a narrative device of just
having your main character Spend

like the acts one and two of your
zombie apocalypse movie in a coma

so you can just skip straight to
the Bart We're like shits already

gone down and been down for a while

Emily: mean, you know, show, don't tell.

James: I, I feel like,

Ben: Well, I want to know, did, was
there any like coma patients who woke

up in the middle of like COVID and
were like, oh boy, what's going on

now that I've woken up from my coma?

A pandemic, really?

Emily: everyone's surrounding them

in, like, fuckin the full gear.

Probably.

Honestly, probably.

I would love if you are listening
and you, this happened to you,

please, you know, Please let us know,
because we want to hear the story.

Unless it's too

upsetting to talk

Ben: uh, apparently Jared Leto showed up
in fucking like June of 2020 and was like,

I've been on an island for three months.

I had no idea there was
a pandemic going on,

Emily: Oh,

Jeremy: I'd be disappointed if he hadn't.

Ben: right?

It's a, it was an
incredibly Jared Leto move.

Emily: Jared Leto wouldn't get
naked and fight a bunch of rapists,

Ben: If he had Morbius would
have been a, would have done a

lot better at the box office.

Emily: That's true!

That's true.

Ben: would have gone to see
Morbius the naked rapist puncher.

Jeremy: he

would have run away and then just
sent them dead rats in the mail.

Emily: Yeah, there you go.

Jeremy: what Letter would have done.

Emily: Okay, so, yeah, Valium,
but the Valium works in this case.

They still survive the night, um,
despite the stress nightmares.

Jim calls Frank a dad which
is really sweet until, well,

they make it into Manchester.

Manchester's on fire.

It probably has been on fire for a month.

Cool.

They do find the 42nd blockade

Ben: If you told me Manchester was on
fire right now, I'd say, Probably, that

sounds right, I'm not gonna look it up.

Emily: Have you seen the website?

Is California on fire.

com?

Ben: I imagine it's, is it just
a JPEG set to the word yes?

Emily: It's not a jpeg, it's
just text, but it says yes.

yeah, that's exactly what it is.

So, yeah.

All right, so they find the 42nd
blockade outside of Manchester on fire.

As described, uh, but it is abandoned.

That's cool, but there are a bunch
of armored vehicles and helicopter.

Frank is holding out for a sign of life.

The only sign of life he finds is
a crow, which he sadly harasses

and then gets some infected blood

Ben: Well this crow is
straight up laughing at him.

Emily: If

I was a

Ben: most jackass crow.

Emily: I would be disappointed if
the crows weren't laughing at us.

James: Well, this, this whole

idea that they're super smart

Ben: us, Emily.

James: and they're,
they're very intentional.

They identify like emotions
in people and differentiation.

That perfect choice, that crow absolutely
strategically turned him into a zombie.

Ben: That,

Emily: that crow was an a But also,

Ben: That

zombie made, that crow probably like
won a bet with another crow over whether

it could turn that guy into a zombie.

Emily: That is why I go out most mornings
and give the crows walnuts and tell

them that I'm their friend so they
don't fucking turn me into zombies.

Ben: Look, when we go, it's the
crow's time to inherit the earth.

Emily: Sure, man.

I would

Jeremy: Gleeson's performance in
this scene here, not to cut off the

crow talk, but Brendan Gleeson's

Emily: But

Ben: More crow talk!

Always

Jeremy: amazing.

He, the, the, like.

The shot of the blood falling into
his eye is, is something, but then

like, his like, Get away from me!

Get away from me!

Everybody get away from me, I don't
have any way to kill myself, but

like,

Ben: that was,

it was good.

Brandon Gleeson did a great job.

Everyone does a great job.

This movie has a fantastic main cast.

James: In, yeah.

He's got 20 seconds to communicate
like heartbreak, horror, strategy.

Resignation, and then Transformation,
and he does it all, and it's, I think

this was the first thing I recognized
him, like, this is the first time he

sort of, I noticed him, I don't know if
it was the first thing I saw him in, but

he, like, he and Naomi Harris, Gillian
Murphy, all of them, I was so excited

any time they turned up in anything,

because of how, like, fully
they resonate in this movie.

Emily: yeah, and this scene where Jim
is like, I'm gonna have to kill him,

the night, the day after I called him
dad, I'm gonna have to kill him, and

you see that on his face, where he, and
then Hannah's there, and all this shit,

But fortunately for Jim, I guess, the,
uh, the actual, the soldiers, there are

soldiers, they show up, they save them,
they shoot the bejesus out of Frank

before Hannah even knows what's going on.

Ben: There's still dicks
who just hid waiting for,

Emily: Yeah,

James: yeah, the fact

Ben: until like,

Emily: I want

James: just admitted they were
there like 30 seconds earlier.

Ben: they could have, you know, not
driven the man to the despair and

frustration that ended up killing him.

Emily: Yeah, so, they drive, uh, our now
trio again to this manor house where Dr.

Major Henry West, a.

k.

a.

Christopher Eccleston will take them
on as, uh, survivors, will take care of

them, and he's like, hey, you're smelly.

Killian Murphy, get naked again.

And he does.

Um,

Ben: movie, this movie sexualizes
the shit out of Cillian Murphy.

Emily: yeah, that's why I want
to talk to, to, uh, Danny.

Danny, I was, I was about to
call him Dade, and that's the

name of the guy in Hackers.

Danny, I wanna, I'm like, thank you,
Danny, I, you understand me, and I,

I, like, Anyway, all you need to do

Ben: Danny, I appreciate
you and we need to talk.

Emily: Yeah, let's talk,
let's talk about the future.

So, uh, the soldiers are
playing with Frank's cab and Dr.

Major West shows Jim around
their quote unquote fort.

And while sitting in a, uh, uh, gilded
chair over the gardens, he suggests

that there's a reason for the vague
language about the answer to the

infection, but he doesn't say what it is.

But part of it is obviously, apparently,
having a bunch of nutty soldiers play

house in order to rebuild civilization.

They even have a pet zombie, the
former private mailer, recently

affected on a chain in the courtyard.

And this is where I pointed
out that he is black.

Um,

Ben: It's some un very
uncomfortable imagery.

James: yeah, they do.

They do have one other soldier of color,
but he's barely glimpsed and it's so

different in the for fronting of the fact
that they have one of their own chained

up after he's infected and that this is
sort of the first man of color you've

Ben: When it comes to the soldiers,
we gotta talk about Sarge.

Sarge is based.

Emily: yeah, sorry,

Ben: They call him New Age Sarge, he
quotes Simpsons, he is very anti rape,

to the, to the point where he is, he
puts his life, he sacrifices himself

in the name of protecting innocents
and preventing sexual violence.

Emily: yeah, so,

Ben: Sarge is the fucking,
the man, he is the coolest

Emily: yeah,

Ben: and again, women and semen don't
mix, that is a great Simpsons line, my

guy, you're correct, fantastic joke.

Emily: it is,

Ben: With Mr.

Burns and Smithers, it's great.

Emily: back when The
Simpsons was good I'm,

part

of me is glad that

he didn't,

Ben: does this posit a world
where Simpsons ends in 2002?

Emily: maybe that's for the
best, is what I'm saying.

so, yeah, so, Major West is talking to
Jim about Private Mailer, they have him

chained up to observe, quote unquote,
the infection for, quote unquote,

science, um, I'm, it, certainly the
scientific method is being followed here.

It's not.

But anyway, the, the soldiers celebrate

Ben: What would the control group be?

Like, another guy chained up in
the yard but who isn't infected?

James: Exactly.

We're gonna see how long it takes
both of them to starve to death.

Jeremy: And

over here, we have Higgins.

He's fine.

Ben: It's like, all right, well
this infected guy just threw up

a whole bunch of red Gatorade.

Higgins, are you throwing
up any red Gatorade?

Jeremy: No sir, I'm just very hungry!

Emily: So, speaking of, uh, throwing
up the soldiers treat, uh, Jim

and company to a feast in a gilded
dining hall that consists of

canned food and a rotten omelette.

Major West is in his dress uniform, and
this scene is so, is like some, some,

uh, some Heart of Darkness, like, fucking
exquisite, fanciful British irony.

Like, this is This is like Heart
of Darkness meets The Adventures

of Baron Munchausen or some shit.

Like, it's so weird and beautiful,

James: This is one of the,

other scenes I always
have thought of, like, I

left the movie thinking about that I
hadn't seen a horror movie in forever

that stops right when you're getting
to sort of third act, climax time, to

debate what the natural state of life
on earth should be, and that you're

getting this debate about is let
seeding the world the animals natural?

Is humans killing other humans natural?

Is civilization natural?

And to articulate these different points,
I mean, I didn't really know who Alex

Garland was at the time, but I feel
like you can look at that conversation,

and it's almost like a Rosetta
Stone for half the movies he's made

Ben: I'm telling you, Sarge being like,
hey, well, you know, humans haven't

been here for a while, so us all dying,
that's kind of like normal for the Earth.

Based.

Sarge is a, based.

Well, he has a great line.

It's later in the movie, but I had to
write it down because especially In this

past year, we've had some people who
are like accelerationism and this idea

of burning it all down to start anew.

And Sarge has a great line where he's
just like, wait about just how fucking

crazy Christopher Eccleston has gotten.

And it's talking about restarting
a world that hasn't stopped.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: And that's the best argument against
accelerationism that I've ever heard.

And it's just one sentence long.

Emily: yeah, this is, this is Sergeant
Farrell he is played by Stuart McQuarrie.

and we mostly see him in the corner
as these like young dudes, or like all

these young privates are all gathered
around the table and talking about

how they're all cunts and saying,
oh, you're a cunt, you're a cunt.

They're British, so, um, I don't know
how many times I actually say that

word, but, um, They, uh, one of the
guys is like, well, back when it's

back to normal, and he thinks, you
know, he says when like, you know,

things start up again, civilization
as they know it starts up again.

And then, you know, Sergeant
Farrell kind of stares and he's

like, Well, what is normal?

And some movies would
make this feel preachy.

This movie is, they're
these characters are

Ben: Also Sarge is awesome.

Emily: yeah, Sarge is awesome, and
he's so haunted that, and everyone

is, feels so, like, just scared.

Ben: Well, he's got some
like stonerness about it too.

Where he's

like, humans only been here like
a few blinks of an eye, man.

Emily: Yeah, yeah,
maybe he has some volume

Ben: you think about it, no humans.

That's what's the real normal.

Emily: so they, uh,
zombies attack mid meal.

They have a

Ben: Just like telemarketers.

They're so rude.

Emily: Yeah, sorry to bother you, zombie.

so the, the soldiers gleefully start
exploding bodies and this is what I want

to talk about because these soldiers are
depicted at this point in the movie as

mainly idiots who are just kind of crazy.

And especially with the scene of the
gilded dining hall and the Baroque um,

Ben: Yeah.

Making omelets out of rotten eggs.

Emily: Making amends and serving
them on like literal silver platters.

Like these are like, I'm sure a
lot of these are actually gilded

with gold because this is like a

historical

James: in, yeah.

Emily: you know, there were

fucking topiaries still out

Ben: soldiers, aside from Christopher
Eccleston, I mean, it sounds like

most of them have, I think, what
would be considered, uh, accents

from lower class neighborhoods,

Emily: Yeah, I mean, there's that,
but they're all very kind of, uh, lost

boys and not, I'm not talking about the
movie, but like the, there is this sort

of, or

Ben: as posh areas, I
guess, would be a better

James: Agro, it's agro frat house energy,

Emily: yeah.

Yeah,

Jeremy: to me.

It reminded me a lot of
Full Metal Jacket and sort

of the way the Marines
are portrayed in that.

And I think it's, it is what fascinates
me about the, like, way that their

little society there is set up is
in order to, like, keep the peace.

Christopher Eccleston's character,
uh, Major West, has, like, turned

this into, like, a family where he
is the dad and they are his boys.

Um, I mean, he's providing for them and
all this, this stuff that is, is Ends

up, you know, getting pretty, everything
is pretty fucked by the end of it.

Um,

Emily: it will.

And, and, but that's the thing is that
these soldiers are doing the thing that

most people in zombie, most of us like
watch happen in zombie movies with glee.

you know, they are

mowing down zombies
and having fun with it.

And, you know, so many other movies
are like, look, killing zombies.

Wow.

You know, look at the kills, you know,
it's like the horror thing where like,

Oh, the cool kills of the horror.

And in this case is you're just
kind of appalled at how completely

dissociated they are from these
infected as people or as even dangerous.

James: part of, I think, what is so key to
making that effective is right before that

attack happens, it is, um, I'm forgetting
her name, but the teenage daughter,

Frank Hanna, Hanna says when they're
kind of talking about what's normal

in all these, you know, killing
all these infected is normal.

She says, she reminds us like,
well, my dad, my dad is one of

those people you're talking about.

And it just, it, it reconnects
our invested humanity into some

semblance of the tragedy of
what it is to become infected.

And then right after that is when we
see how much they enjoy just mutilating

infected people, and, you know, tearing
them apart, watching them blow up

on landmines, and the glee they take
is such a stark contrast to that.

It really, I think is absolutely
key to, like, reorienting your, your

perspective and emotional investment.

Emily: Yeah, that's a really
really good point because this

is right where Hannah won't eat

James: Yeah.

Emily: and then she says I don't
want to eat I want to bury my dad

James: Yeah.

Emily: and then they're like, well and
then just in the middle of that They

just all leave and start shooting.

When they come back they assault Selena
Major West shows up and he puts a right

stop to that nonsense and offers Jim some
liquor, some of the liquor that Frank

brought from the grocery store, uh, R.

I.

P.

Frank.

Uh, Major West has an old heart to heart
with Jim where he tells him that he

intends to offer up Selina and Hannah
as baby factories to the soldiers.

James: And if we haven't, if we haven't
made this clear, Hannah is very underage.

Emily: yeah, she's like 14,

or she is supposed to be 14, yeah.

so Jim immediately runs off
and tries to alert Hannah and

Selina telling them to run away.

He's knocked out.

Not all the soldiers are in with this
plan as Jim awakens to Sergeant Farrell

defending him but they, uh, they put him

Ben: Sarge.

is just too cool for this sinful Earth.

Emily: Yeah, and then, um,

Ben: This sinful England.

Emily: Jim and Sarge are, uh, locked
to a r or they're tied up to a radiator

where Sarge warns their greatest sorrow,
the, the fact that the apocalypse

has robbed them of the symptoms.

but he also says some genuinely
intense things about how Britain

is fucked up and how the, you know,
like, who would give a shit if

everybody in Britain ate each other?

I mean, just look at us, etc.

And, you know,

Ben: I mean, there is something
quarantine level where it's like,

because they mention it so much,
they're like, Oh, well, I heard it was

the infection, like, got to New York.

And it's like, how?

This thing has a, this thing has
a latency period of 20 seconds.

James: Yeah, like, no,

airplane is making it across

Ben: yeah, there's no fucking way.

Emily: Yeah.

so the next day, Feral and Jim are
taken to the woods to be executed.

The executioners do have a spat,
and Jim escapes into the wilderness.

things are looking pretty bleak.

Feral has been shot to death.

But what's this?

There is an airplane flying overhead.

Ooh.

Uh, thanks, Godspeed, you black emperor.

Also plays here.

Ben: I miss that there was a plane going.

Emily: Yeah, after Jim jumps
the fence and gets out of there,

um, and now, you know, gets
his shirt ripped off again, um,

Ben: I was confused how he got that
shirt off with his hands handcuffed.

Emily: were, it was ripped
off by the razor wire,

Ben: That was some intense razor
wire to rip it clean off his body.

Jeremy: this is really

James: the production designer
knows we got to get some

more shots of Killian Murphy.

Ben: wanted that shirtless Rambo,

like, going, yeah,

Emily: a British icon,

Ben: but man, he like, he like,
he vaults over the wall wearing a

sweatshirt and lands on the other side.

Clean cut, totally topless.

Emily: yeah, yeah, I mean, if,
fucking base though, like, how many

movies have, like, women getting
their fucking shirts ripped off?

Yeah.

Jeremy: like he weighs 90
pounds and this movie, like

Ben: Well, there's a whole scene
where like where they're going up

to find the apartment that ends up
being Brandon Gleason and Hannah.

where he needs to like stop
and now he's just like, Yeah,

cause you're fucking anemic.

You're in a, you're in a coma
and I've had nothing but sugar.

Emily: Yeah, You're a
walking skeleton, man.

Like, what is happening?

James: but

it really adds.

To the parallels of him seeming
like the infected who, you

know, they say, don't eat.

Like, they make the clarification, these
aren't zombies feasting on human flesh.

Like, they just murder.

They

don't eat anything.

And so they are just starving out.

So most of the people you
ever see are pretty emaciated.

And so he does just kind of echo that.

He's becoming more and more like that.

So it's, It's, pretty effective
seeing a, a topless Jack

Skellington going around on a

slaughter parade.

Emily: Yeah.

It's

Ben: I mean, to a degree it kinda reminded
me of First Purge, but First Purge gave

us an incredibly jacked action hero,

while Gillian Murphy is definitely
going almost like desperate

guerrilla warfare badass.

Emily: so he's out in the woods and Act
Three opens with the soldiers trying

to force Hannah and Selena to dress
up nice, um, so they can be raped.

Selina convinces the soldiers to
give him some privacy, and then

she tries to give Hannah all of her
Valium so she won't have to so Hannah

won't have to deal with the trauma.

Hannah takes some Valium, but not all of
it, because we're not trying to kill her.

Um, so, shirtless and determined, Jim

Ben: We are not going
for the missed ending

Emily: Yeah, I know.

There's plenty of those movies.

true, listen determined.

Jim now uses his nimble twink powers
to draw out the soldiers into the rain.

He cranks up their raid siren and
baits them into an ambush of infected.

Like a live mustelid, he slips back into
the manor house where the two soldiers

keep watch over Selena and Hannah.

He uses a stolen gun to shoot
the pet zombie, a private

mailer, free of his chain.

Ben: tink, that nimble twink,

Emily: Nibble, nimble twink power.

Hannah starts tripping on the volume
and uses her spooky haunted girl

powers to freak out the soldiers enough
for them to be attacked by Mailer.

Jim watches from the Water
Street windowpane brimming with

vindictive satisfaction as the
soldiers tear each other apart.

Hannah dances dreamily in her sparkling
dress into the dark manor hallways.

Jim cavorts back into the
manor, impaling a soldier with,

uh, much joy and viciousness.

With a bayonet, uh, as well.

He

Ben: I thought this was the
soldier at first who threatened

to kill Cool Sarge with a bayonet.

Because I thought like, oh, that'll be

thematic.

James: No,

this

Ben: not, it's not, it's a different one,

James: he killed the

Ben: the

main jacket.

Yeah, like, yeah, he killed the chef.

Which, chef.

Gah, the guy opened cans.

Emily: Yeah, they called
him the tin opener.

Anyway, so he leads more infected
soldiers into each other.

Hannah is saved from an infected by hiding
behind a mirror, proving that the infected

are at least smarter than cocktails.

Jim continues to rush through the
house searching for Hannah and Selina.

He drops in on the soldier holding onto
Selina like a full on slasher monster,

and then sexily kills the shit out of him.

Selina almost mistakes
him for an infected.

Ben: He is the Killian Morph.

Emily: Yeah, he is a kilianmorph.

He is, he is xenomorph, like, he is
the xenomorph twink of our dreams that

Jeremy: he puts those fingers
through the eyes 15 years before,

uh, any game of thrones business.

Ben: Yeah!

Oh, when I realized that he was just
driving his hands, his thumbs through

the guy's eyes, I'm like, Booo!

Oh

James: And they, they really do it.

They, they really do a good cut
in where he squished them grapes.

Emily: Oh, yeah.

Ben: they do not shy away.

We get to see thumbs in eye sockets.

Emily: see his thumbs, like,
fully, like, I, they have eyelids

Ben: They filmed that for
real, that actor is blind now.

James: but by the way, for I, speaking
of what they show and what they don't

show for anyone listening, who hadn't
watched it, I just want to double

back to say in the threat of assault.

section.

They really, I am so, they don't
take it into a place of visceral,

like they don't, nothing happens.

There's like a forced kiss, and that's,
there's the looming threat, which

Ben: There's, there's a
little forced undressing.

Emily: yeah.

For Selena, but

James: do they?

She, they're there when she's
undressing, but do they take her

Ben: Well, they, they, they,
they, they rip her, they rip her

James: Oh, they do.

Okay.

I'm sorry.

All right.

I didn't

process that.

Jeremy: yeah, there is
no, uh, no penetration or,

uh, Yeah, no.

Ben: Again, 100 percent of the nudity
in this movie is Killian Murphy.

James: And,

and it's,

Ben: Dick

James: yes.

Yeah.

The, but it's, it's one of those things.

Like I am always, I just always
feel like I don't and won't

write assault into stories.

And I am, In this, I had some, this
was the one thing I was conflicted

about, like, pitching it as one we
could talk about, was, is I was,

like,

ah,

Ben: if we couldn't co look, if we didn't
cover horror movies of sexual assault, we

would have a lot less movies to talk about

James: that's true.

But I feel like this, it's so, I
absolutely understand how it's like

fundamental to the, the Threat of the
world they're talking about and the

people who would have the machines
of war to defend you are then going

to use this desperate situation to be
abhorrent and that's so fundamental to

a likely Overlap in the Venn diagram

Ben: right, it is unfortunately,
you can find enough instances of

historical societal collapse and what
tends to happen in the in during those

collapses to find out that this is a.

terrifyingly realistic outcome.

James: Yeah, but I feel like this movie,
while knowing that, makes as considerate

a containment of that as possible.

Emily: There's not a lot of gaze on
these women as they're being forced.

James: right.

And it, it emphasizes the,
Terribleness and horror of that in the

emotional, especially the protection

of, of Hannah and everything.

And then you also just get to see
all those dudes get ripped up.

And

so

Ben: Oh yeah.

it makes it very cathartic,
but no, you're right.

It does not sexualize the assault.

It is, uh, cause we've seen plenty of
movies that it's like, Ooh, assault.

Like, isn't this, this is terrible,
but you know, where else, but we're

going to make it kind of sexy too.

This is just like ugly and
terrifying and dangerous.

From Selena's perspective and yeah, like
he said, all the sexualization is Murphy.

Jeremy: yeah,

they kind of sexualize Killian Murphy

assaulting these guys.

he assaults them

sexily.

Emily: Yeah, he kills the shit out
of them sexually, and I, I'm into it.

You but

Jeremy: Shirtless eye gouging.

Ben: this is the, like, that's like
the last 15 minutes of this movie.

Definitely got him that movie.

Red Eye.

Emily: Yeah.

All that,

Jeremy: We gotta talk about
that movie, that movie's good.

Emily: that's, it's just so funny to
me that like American movies, Cillian

Murphy is the evil pretty boy that
needs to be punched and in British

movies he's like, oh such a bastard.

Ben: I know I'm getting tired because
I almost asked what's Killian Murphy

been up to lately as if he didn't
win Best, uh, actor last year.

Emily: right?

That

Jeremy: thing I love about,

Emily: destroyer of worlds,

Jeremy: the thing I love about Killian
Murphy as an actor is that with few

exceptions, in American movies he's
British, in British movies he's Irish.

Like,

Emily: Right?

Ben: Amazing.

I think that says a lot
about where we're at in

Jeremy: like I kind of forgot

that,

Ben: to differentiate.

Jeremy: I kind of forgot that 28 Days
Later is like him with his real accent.

I was like, oh, that's right.

Killian Murphy is extremely Irish.

Emily: uh huh.

Uh huh.

Jeremy: He's

from Cork

County.

Ben: Murphy should be enough to
indicate that Irishness, but you're

right, we keep casting him as Brits.

Emily: Yeah, or just
like evil, which Brits?

Let's, let's be real.

Jeremy: named his children
Aaron and Malachy.

He's very Irish.

Emily: Bless him.

Ben: Malachy

Jeremy: His brother's name is

Ben: hell of a name.

His ducky name literally
named his kid Eminem.

Malachy

Emily: What?

Ben: Mur what was it?

Malachy

Jeremy: Murphy?

Ben: Malachy Murphy.

That's an

Emily: Aaron Murphy and Malachy Murphy.

Jeremy: Brother's

name is

Potty, and his wife is Yvonne McGinnis.

He can't be any more Irish.

Ben: this family is so Irish
they're gonna cause the

reunification before the year's out.

Emily: Let's do it.

All right.

So killing, killing Murphy
is sexually kills the rapist.

Selena almost mistakes
him for an infected.

Because he is, he is relishing
this rapist destruction.

Um, me too.

And, yeah, so hopefully the blood
all over his sexy face isn't

infected because Selena slurps
a lot of it up with smooches.

their passion is so intense that
Hannah also confuses him for being

infected and bonks him on the head.

Ben: I do like

Emily: he's okay.

Yeah, That

was

a good bit of,

Ben: this movie has funny like slapstick,
again, like that this movie doesn't

end with gridmark darkness, it ends
with our found family getting away.

Emily: Yeah, and Hannah, I mean, in,
in Hannah's case, she's stoned, and

also they were suckin face pretty
hard, so, you know, it's fucked up.

Anyway, but

Ben: But no, that's the thing, like,
it works, like, totally, it works,

like, this movie is very serious,
it's very intense and scary, but

it's not joyless, it's not humorless.

Emily: yeah.

so, stoned and dazed but alive,
the three make it to the cab.

But what's this?

Christopher Eccleston is waiting
in the back and he is sad

that all his rapists are dead.

So he shoots Jim, but then Hannah,
who's now in the driver's seat,

Tokyo drifts his ass right into
the undead mailer, who conveniently

grabs him out of the rear windshield.

I don't know what it's called in
Britain, maybe like the boothole or

something, I don't know what they call it

Ben: Incredible plan
from a valiant dup tween.

Emily: Yeah, well, sometimes,
in Vino Ver in Valium Veritas.

uh,

Invalium

Ben: shirt.

Emily: Veritas, Vitamin V,
as my dad used to call it.

so, Major

West's

Ben: a layer of the Emily Onion
that just got peeled back.

Emily: Oh yeah, sorry about that.

his, his family's from Cornwall.

anyway, Major West's death is long and
painful and his screams reverberate,

and then his undead killer screams in
victory, there's a lot of screaming.

And Hannah drives them right
into the locked gate and,

record scratch, freeze frame.

How did they get into this?

Well, we know how they
got into this situation.

But then where are they?

28 days later?

They, Jim has survived being shot.

He and Hannah and Selina are
living their cottagecore dreams in

the country as the infected have
begun to starve themselves out.

they make some cool art.

To say hello, world.

Mostly so they can be
found, which they are, by

Ben: loved how Selena turned
the rape dresses into like, new

clothes and shirts and sweaters.

Emily: Yeah, yeah, I'm, pretty
impressed that she turned, I mean, I

don't know if she actually turned, the
rape dress into a, into his sweater.

James: I think it's part of,

I took it as.

the two red patches on hello.

There's two red patches on there.

And I,

Emily: that,

yeah, and I think he's, they're also
wearing, like, he's wearing the red

sweater so he's noticeable from the air.

From the hair, as they would say
in Cornwall, which I don't know

if they are in Cornwall, but, you
know, that would be a good place

to, live your cottagecore dreams.

and that's the movie!

Hooray!

They survived!

And maybe they still live
in that house to this day.

James: Yeah.

I bet

you could get pretty easy squatters
rights in an apocalypse like that,

where most of your country was killed.

Emily: yeah.

And we don't know.

I mean, I haven't seen 28 Weeks Later.

I don't really want to, honestly.

James: It's

Jeremy: the same world, but it's not, the
story is, is only tangentially related.

Emily: Yeah.

And I, and there's no, Jeremy Renner's in
it, but no shirtless Killian Murphy, so.

James: yeah,

Emily: I guess.

James: it's, I also feel like it's less,
um, I don't know, it's less resonant,

like less I think it has less on its mind

than than this movie does, and so, it's a
good zombie movie, but it's less of a, I

don't know, like, chillingly real feeling
dissection of, you know, human problems.

Emily: Yeah.

It sounds less profound

James: yeah.

Yeah.

Well, it's not written by Alex Garland.

So, you know, get a little
less meat on the bone there.

Emily: alas,

Jeremy: of, they're kind of stuck
with the idea of like, oh yeah,

people have survived a while now, so,

like, it's, it's not, the, problem
is not as immediate as, you know.

And they don't get, they didn't get,
again, to shut down the M1 for basically

two hours so they could film this scene
outside, which is like, that is the real,

like there's a lot of good stuff in this
movie, but the really amazing thing is

them getting those exterior M1 in London,

like, really empty, like, apparently
they got permission to like, Basically

slow down traffic for two hours to
get these shots on a Sunday morning.

And, I, I guess in all of the two hours
that we're able to get about five minutes

worth of footage that they could use.

James: But it's so, it's so impactful and

it's so haunting.

And when, you know, this is like a,
I mean, I don't, I don't know if him,

but it's something like a 5 million, 10
million movie or something like that.

It's

Emily: it's not a spendy,

Ben: it's still one of the most
iconic scenes of the 21st century.

Him walking through the empty streets of
London is such a defining, iconic image.

James: Yeah.

And

it

Jeremy: most of that money.

They spent most of that money blowing up a
real gas station in the middle of London.

Like, I can't, when I was looking at that
scene, I was like, how did they do this?

Ben: Uh, excuse

Jeremy: they get a couple

of

Ben: money blowing up a petrol station.

Thank you.

Jeremy: They're blowing
up a petrol station.

Yeah.

As I was, as I was
watching it, I was like,

this looks really real.

How did they do this?

And the answer is they really
blew up a petrol station in Canary

Wharf, it cost them 250, 000.

And despite the fact that they let
the cops know beforehand, it was still

crazy enough that the cops showed
up and were like, what the fuck,

Emily: talked to you about this,

Ben: Yeah, sometimes it'd be like that.

Emily: does, it, it, it does
sometimes be like that, I, yeah, the

predictive quality of this movie,
especially that opening sequence of

like, empty streets, is chilling.

Like, this movie was chilling when
I watched it, and I think when I

first watched it, it was on DivX.

So,

Ben: I mean, empty, like, truly
empty cityscapes can be so chilling.

James: Oh Yeah,

Emily: absolutely.

Jeremy: something the size of London.

Like that's, it's so strange.

And yeah, it's.

It's interesting to me how close
this movie came at several points

to like, not being the same movie.

That like, it was supposed to
be Ewan McGregor in the lead,

Emily: That's right.

Jeremy: only wasn't because he and
uh, he and Danny Boyle had a falling

out over the beach of all things.

Because he was supposed to
be the lead in the beach and

got replaced by Leonardo

DiCaprio.

Ben: because Danny Boyle did

trainspotting.

Emily: Yes.

Yeah.

Ben: Oh my god, imagine missing
out on 20 Imagine missing out on

28 Days Later because
you're mad about the beach.

Emily: I mean, we got Cillian Murphy,

Jeremy: But like, it was, it was supposed
to be Ewan McGregor and then it got,

then Ryan Gosling was supposed to take

James: What?

That I've never heard.

That's amazing.

Jeremy: yeah, it got offered to Ryan
Gosling, but he had a scheduling

conflict because they basically
fucking gorilla filmed this movie

because

Ben: my big question.

Would they have rewritten the
script for Jim to be American, or

would Ryan Gosling have talked in
a British accent the whole time?

Because holy

Jeremy: I would be into either,

Ben: Ryan Gosling fake British
accent the whole movie would

James: Well, my, my question is,
do you think we still would have

gotten full frontal Ryan Gosling?

Because my understanding is,

unlike Ewan McGregor, he has
not dropped trow in that way.

And so I don't, I think he might not
have committed to, in the same way.

Ben: God, truly one of the
great, like, you talk about the,

James: Sliding doors.

Ben: you talk about the path where history
branches off into a whole different world,

Emily: Yeah.

So is this movie feminist?

Ben: I mean, I think Naomi Harris is so,
Selena is a fantastic character, Naomi

Harris is great, and it does not shy
away from and really definitely explores

the risks of sexual violence without
overly, traumatically depicting it, or

even worse, glorifying or sexualizing it.

Emily: Yeah.

That

James: a lot of disdain
for the patriarchy.

I don't know that that gets you all
the way there, but I think it is,

very solidly not in, like we were
saying, not in the objectifying and

belittling it's, women characters.

Ben: I'm gonna say yes because of the
scene where the drugged out little girl

drove Christopher Eccleston into a zombie.

Emily: That too.

No, I think this movie is definitely,
like, it's not a movie about feminism.

You know, it's not men.

Ben: I really like, again I really
love how strong a character Selina is.

She is so three dimensional.

She is someone wrestling
with hope, with hope.

Fear of the future.

We see her get to be tough and
confident and decisive when she

fucking hacks Mark to death.

We get to see her, I mean, god, the
scene where, after they've been taken

in by the military, and she's just oh,
so upset, not even for herself, but for

Hannah having to see her father die, that
scene about how she doesn't want Hannah

to cope, she wants Hannah to be fine.

Emily: Yeah.

And after everything she's been through
too, like she's also, I mean, she has been

introduced to us as completely nihilistic.

Ben: I'm gonna say yes just
because of how three dimensional

and how human Selena is.

And the line, the movie, I think that
was able to successfully navigate in

terms of depicting sexual violence.

Jeremy: I have to say, it feels
a little weird when we get to

the final act and it's like big

threat of the zombie
apocalypse movie becomes rape.

And Selena makes that transition
from the badass she's been the whole

movie to the damsel in distress.

And it's up to,

it's up to Killian Murphy to save
two women from sexual assault.

Like that's what the, the final
stakes of the third act come down to

is like, saving, you know, his, his
two female companions from sexual

assault, which they take very little
part in doing the fighting here, which

James: Yeah.

Interestingly, Hannah almost has
more strategic participation in

success than, uh, cause there's
both that the mirror moment where

she sort of outsmarts one of the infected
and that she takes out the, the doctor.

But, uh, yeah, you're right.

It is interesting the way that
Selena's been proven so capable

and doesn't quite manage.

I would love if she managed to get One
guy to pieces, you know what I mean?

Like if

she really got her part in there.

Jeremy: Yeah,

it, it, uh, being somebody who, I mean,
and I, all of us are, I've read a lot of

comic books, I feel like there's a lot of
this in comics where it's like, what is

the ultimate stakes for male character?

The sexual assault of female he cares
about, like, that's the thing, that is,

you know, driving his story is stopping
the sexual assault of female character.

I do think, you know, it does keep the
camera on them and they are dealing

to some extent and, you know, trying
to do their part to stay alive.

So it's not on the same level as, you
know, it certainly is in other stories,

but it did feel just a little, I don't
know, just a little awkward at this point.

James: Yeah, I, I deduct some points and

so

Ben: Yeah, yeah,

James: but

but it's, but it's also not like I do, I
agree with you though, too, that I think

it's effort and it's, and, and, and what
it achieves in creating the character

of Selena and her arc goes just leagues
beyond, you know, So much of horror,

and I love horror as a genre, but if
it's got a problem, it's like default

blind objectification and misogyny.

And this is just, it is so beyond that
for the vast majority of what it's doing.

Emily: yeah,

Jeremy: Yeah,

I agree.

Emily: say it's not, not feminist.

James: Yes.

Emily: Yeah,

that's my official ranking,
my official ruling of this,

Jeremy: On the other hand, I don't
think it has much of anything,

if anything at all, to say about
LGBTQIA plus characters or themes.

There's very little

attempt to do anything there

James: no.

Emily: I mean, I think the only thing is,
is, uh, Danny Boyle, we need to talk about

you and Killian Murphy, but, you know,
that's not a, that's not a movie message.

Jeremy: I mean, the one thing
for me is that you do have that,

like, manor house full of dudes.

Are you trying to tell me at
least two of them aren't fucking?

Like, there's not

James: Well,

the

Emily: a military frat situation.

Like, even if they were, they probably
would be really, like, you know,

they probably couldn't tell Dad
Eccleston because he would, like, you

know, call them cunts or something.

James: Yeah.

I mean, the closest they come is that
the guy working in the kitchen wears

a very frilly apron and it's hard to
tell if they're trying to play that

purely as like a beta male quote
gag, or if it's, or if it's like his

choice in there, they're hinting at
like, does he have a broader spectrum?

Cause he, I believe he's also
the one who doesn't want.

When they take Killian and
the sergeant out to be killed.

I think he's the second guy who tries to

Ben: Yeah, yeah, he is
the guy who doesn't, who

who shoots Sarge instead of
letting him get bayoneted.

James: Yeah,

Ben: Yeah.

James: and so I there it seems like and he
doesn't participate in the menace of the

of the women he is elsewhere during that.

And so I, it's low.

I mean, that is slim Pickens, but the
closest, I don't know if they're trying

to suggest something for his character,

but 2002 is slim Pickens

Emily: yeah, yeah, I mean, I don't think
that they, they are, because I think

he's just sort of, like, he's the piggy
of the group, that they're just sort

of, like, thrusting things upon him.

Jeremy: Yeah,

Emily: and sort of, uh, designating
him as, so yeah, I don't think he's

anything, I don't think there's any
sort of suggestion there, because I

think if there was, it would be kind
of homophobic too, because it would

be sort of like a frilly dress up.

Kind

Jeremy: And he also seems
to be into the cooking.

He's

really upset when

Ben: Cooking, he is just
swirling rotten eggs in a bowl.

Emily: I mean, he doesn't, he doesn't
know what the fuck he's doing.

Jeremy: Yeah.

I do have to say this movie has an
interesting, like two point thing

with race and that you have, uh,
Naomi Harris, who is fantastic in it.

She's the, I mean, up until the end,
she is the action star of the movie.

Um, you know, she's the one mowing
people down with that, uh, with her,

Ben: Machete, he's going full Danny Trejo.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: but then you also have.

zombie that they've got up in the yard?

Emily: Mailer, private mailer.

Jeremy: Yeah, who like, I, I guess how
you feel about this, how you feel about

the use of that character depends on
whether you think it's intentional or not.

And I fully believe, you know, on the part
of Danny Boyle, that like, Mailer being

black, and the way that he is treated
by his, commanding officer as, you know,

continuing to be treated like an animal
once he's infected is, is not an accident.

I fully believe that like,

Ben: definitely

Jeremy: that's, that's a thing.

Emily: Well, in the, in the context of
all of the shit that this community,

this little soldier community does.

Like, in the context of their fuckin
parody of a feast that they have.

James: Yeah.

They're, they're manor house.

I mean, the fact that you literally have
like a sign of British class, the history

of sort of, British class disparity.

then, and then you have one person of
color, literally like chained up for

just disgusting, distorted perception of
like service of, uh, of what the master

of the house is trying to, to figure out.

I think it's pretty deliberate.

Emily: yeah.

And they have, they have the major on
the, that like, gilded chair overlooking

the gardens with the topiaries and stuff.

And I feel like that's where the I mean,
already things are kind of sus, but

that's where it really, you know, this
The political cartoonery is, um, right

there, you know, he might as well have
like a sign on him that says, patriarchy

Jeremy: Yeah, and I mean, he, he treats
all, like I was saying, he treats all of

the other, officers like they're his kids.

And, he's cert we don't know what he
treated Mayler was alive, but he certainly

is not treating them like, uh, like he's
one of their kids after he's infected.

seems like it would only be common
courtesy to go ahead and kill him.

Um, at

point.

Ben: Yeah, the way he's just
like, I promise them women.

Emily: yeah,

Ben: unsettling.

Emily: yeah, he promised them women and
he just tells, he doesn't ask Jim, I

mean, but he kind of, he does this thing
where he sort of kind of giving Jim the

courtesy of, in his perspective, like this
is a very, like, patriarchal male thing.

James: Yeah.

Like, I he's,

trying to see if you're on board.

Emily: Yeah, he's like, look,

Ben: definitely feeling Jim out.

Emily: yeah, but he's, you know, but
he is offering Jim the courtesy of

letting him know before he just does
this, because he could just do it.

He's, you know, got like a dozen
dudes with guns at his beck and call.

but he's like, look, you know, we're
gonna drink the, this dead man's

liquor, and then we're gonna, you
know, I'm gonna tell you that I'm

going to dehumanize your friends.

and, It's,

Ben: It's

Emily: chilling.

It's

Ben: Yeah.

Emily: know, but it's very effective.

And, you know, and also, like, that
whole, like, you don't really need a

lot more to that situation to know that,
you know, we don't need to see the, the

girls get, like, physically assaulted
to know just how menacing this is.

yeah.

Ben: so uh, did we talk

Emily: comment.

That Jim made about like, oh, what is
it with these shopping trolleys and, and

Tower blocks.

Yeah, which I feel like is a little bit
of an arc for him where he starts as he's

still kind of the suburban, only child
of a decently well put together family.

He's a, bike messenger, you know, so
I, you know, and he lives at home.

So, you know, I'm not saying that
he's like super privileged, but he

is privileged enough to kind of.

bring up this classist remark.

and then, you know, very, very quickly
realizes that he's full of shit.

James: Yeah, she shuts
him down right away,

appreciate.

Like, she, she basically
tells him to shut the fuck up.

and, and then the people we meet
who are in there are nicest salts of

the earth, saving their butt, like,

they're they're, they're given such depth
and then when we see something like,

you know, like, the forces of power and
they are sitting in a seat of wealth.

All of that is just corrupt and disgusting
and, dehumanizing toward anything they see

as less powerful or entitled than them.

And so it feel, it feels very indictment
of that, but also acknowledging

you're right, that bit with Jim.

That comment from him is an
interesting thing about the way

you're able to play middle class
people off of less enfranchised.

And so I think that there's even just
some subtle richness to that world

building and that perspective that it has.

Jeremy: interesting because I think it's,
the class stuff is definitely there,

but not nearly at the level that like,
Romero's zombie movies are about class,

Ben: Oh yeah, no, much
more overt in Romero.

Emily: But this is, is a
very British thing, too.

Like, a very British situation, you
know, so it's, it's, a, whether it's

more or less, I think it's very on
point for, you know, this British middle

class, you know, like this guy, this guy
is, I mean, Sean and Sean of the dead

was living in a flat with other guys.

Like he wasn't living with his folks,
but he's still very close to this folks.

And he's probably, you know, um, a
little bit, you know, depended on them.

But,

Ben: Shaun of the Dead is a little
bit of a tough case because it very

much is using his economic position
to discuss where, like, his character

individually is.

It's not making commentary on,
like, his class or his occupation.

So I feel like Shaun of the Dead
is a little tough on that class

angle, just because it's more meant
to show how Shaun as an individual

is underachieving and slacking

rather than being a commentary on
working class politics as a whole,

Emily: right.

I, I'm just saying, like, there's the,
where those characters are and where

they are in, like, the British landscape,
at that point, and, you know, what

kind of lives they might be living.

So, I mean, because, like,
Sean, we see less of, Jim in

his life before than we see Sean.

So, like, this isn't, it's a

Ben: British zombie films.

I mean, we have 28 Days Later in
2002 and Shaun of the Dead in 2004.

What like two incredible classics
coming out very close to one another

in the grand scheme of things?

James: yeah,

I mean, I feel like that's just a
huge part of what reignited I mean,

like you said, the Walking Dead comics
were in 2003 and they, they built,

but it really wasn't until the show
came that it was really a phenomenon.

Ben: Yeah,

James: that was,

Ben: I'd want to say like oh nine.

James: I was going to say,
it's like, Oh, nine or 2010.

I think somewhere in there.

Ben: Yeah.

Jeremy: they're still going.

Emily: Yeah, bless.

Ben: So do we recommend 28 days later?

Emily: Yeah,

Ben: Yeah, this movie rules.

This

Emily: yeah, this movie's,
and I will say it, it is very

frenetic and it is very intense.

So, you know, maybe you
should have some Valium.

Um, don't do drugs unless
it's prescribed or legal.

notice I've, I've made
a differentiation there.

but Yeah,

Ben: Yeah, watch

Jeremy: I,

also

think,

Ben: 28 days later, you might again find
it on DVD load up that pirate website.

It's worth it.

It's re it's more than earned its
legacy amongst the zombie film greats.

Emily: Hopefully it'll be re released
when 28 Years Later comes out.

Like, hopefully they'll do a thing.

Ben: Well, it seems to be a rights issue.

Like a complicated Who owns what?

James: Yeah.

It was, it was co
financed like three ways.

And one of them also was with Fox.

Uh, Atomic, which, so now it's
whether Disney wants to release

Oppenheimer's dong in new, definition,

Ben: it's strange because they
do still they do still have, 28

weeks later, but not 28 days later.

Emily: Yeah.

And, you know, Disney

Ben: I don't how that though.

Look up a ask a lawyer.

Emily: you guys, I just went on,
just going on Disney Plus and

seeing fucking poor things on

Disney Plus.

Ben: Wait,

what?

Jeremy: yeah, Disney

plus.

James: is,

she new Disney

Jeremy: of, they've let the

between Disney Plus and
Hulu in a way that like,

really distinction pointless, but.

Ben: Hate to put on my NBA hat, but I
I'm noticing some branding problems.

Emily: Yeah, well, I was like, oh, look,
what's uh, what's uh, trending right now?

Inside Out?

But, poor things.

And,

Ben: And that classic
Disney property, Futurama!

Emily: Yeah, God, that
was, that was Tripp,

Jeremy: Speaking of Futurama, what
do we want to recommend, guys?

Ben: Futurama!

Emily: um, The Simpsons,

and women don't mix.

Ben: I you know what?

Fuck it.

I am going I am actually you know what?

In the spirit of this, I am going
to represent, uh, recommend my

favorite Simpsons episode, which is,
kind of on the horror theme basis.

Uh, I am recommending Itchy and
Scratchy Land from the Simpsons.

Emily: I mean, there's a lot of good
Cillian Murphy content out there,

but what I actually would recommend

for this is Peaky Blinders,

Ben: Those blinders are mighty peaky.

Emily: and

and Sunshine,

Ben: Ugh.

James: Oh, Sunshine!

Yeah, have you guys

never that?

Cause

Ben: we haven't.

We should.

We should

Jeremy: going to be my recommendation.

James: It's

Jeremy: another Danny Boyle.

Alex Garland coup.

Ben: Is that Chris Evans in that

one?

James: Yeah.

Emily: Yep.

Jeremy: and Murphy.

Emily: And Benedict Wong, I think, that?

Yeah,

it's a fucking all star cast,
but I wanted to recommend, the a

couple of of these survival movies,
The Quiet Place and Bird Box.

Quiet Place is like 28 Days Later,
but no, you can't you can't hear it.

And then the Bird Box is you can't see it.

Or it kills you.

So if, you, if it hears you, it kills you.

If it sees you, it kills you.

And, the Bur box, uh, and or I should say,
and a quiet place in Bur box respectively.

they're very much variations on the theme.

not zombies, very cool concepts.

So, yeah, uh, I think they're, they're
a nice little companion piece too.

Um, 28 days laborer.

Jeremy: and Quiet, uh, Quiet
Place has some great, disability

representation in it as well.

Emily: Yes.

Jeremy: One of the, the daughter
of the two leads is deaf.

James, what did you have
that you wanted to recommend?

James: Oh, well, boy, I wish I would
have remembered to think about that ahead

of time, but I when you when you were
talking about, survival horror, that was

making me think about, um, God, something
went in my brain and then right out,

but uh, when you were talking about your
favorite Simpsons I know Treehouse of

Horror 3 is the one with zombie Flanders

Uh, that's their zombie episode, which
we recently have been watching Simpsons

with my kids And I'm shocked that one
I could Recite most of it from memory.

And I have not watched it since
it was like just regular repeats.

So

it that's another one that

Ben: You're gonna, you're gonna get to
see your kids react to the first time

to, I'm sorry, My Son Is Also Named Bort.

James: Yes.

Ben: I'm so excited for you.

Emily: I know, that beautiful?

James: It's,

it's so, it's so amazing, the number of
things, like that, the, several of those

early seasons are burned into my brain
the way this movie was, where like, I

hear the music cues, there's some lines,
I knew what was coming in this, despite

not having seen it, I, maybe I watched
it once, like when I got the DVD, but

that was like right after I saw it in
theaters, but it's been forever, and

it's burned in there, and so many times
when we're watching Simpsons, I just know

the next, Line and my children look at
me like, how often do you watch this?

I'm like, not in 20 years.

Ben: It's just that good.

Emily: Simpsons is, like, this
movie does say, uh, prove that the

Simpsons, at least that era of the
Simpsons, was a universal language.

James: yes.

Emily: was fucking watching the Simpsons.

James: Oh, I,

I I guess I was gonna say
if, uh, that's what it was.

If y'all, I mean, when you mentioned
the mist, I do think they're as,

as bleak and demoralizing and
frustrating as the characters in that

Ben: It's a good movie

James: it's such, No, it's, it's such a
good movie and it's so relevant and it

tackles the American basket of issues,

in a, in a similar sort of, tone.

and then if you just want to see, some
badass lady survival, I haven't seen it

in years, but the descent is always what I

think of

Ben: Yeah, oh yeah, that, that was one
of our earliest episodes, The Descent.

Emily: When you say the mist, are you
talking about M I S T or M I S S E E

Ben: M.

I.

S.

C., the Stephen King movie.

Emily: Right.

James: What?

I don't know.

I don't know the other one.

Emily: I was Don't Don't worry about it.

I

James: Okay.

Ben: a video game series.

Emily: Oh, no, I, well, I
was talking about the current

basket of American issues.

James: Oh, yes.

Oh,

Ben: Oh I thought you

James: yes.

Ben: S.

T.

Emily: Oh, well, there's that, too.

Mist, the mist?

That's fucking cool.

Jeremy: so, okay,

Ben: We recommend Myst, the game,
the movie, and the weather concept.

James: Oh, I live in Portland.

I definitely, I, I, I'm a big fan of Myst.

Jeremy: and

also Ribbon, the sequel to Myst.

Emily: Yeah.

Jeremy: Anyway, all right.

Uh, what do I have to recommend?

Um, if you're looking for
another movie, this is a Pepsi

commercial, check out Madame Webb.

If you are looking for something else
with, uh, Naomi Harris, where she does

get murdered for no good reason in the
last 10 minutes of the movie by the good

guys, watch Venom, let there be carnage.

It's really where that movie
fell apart for me, weirdly.

But, uh, if you're looking
for another good movie, we

mentioned it briefly just now.

It is, the same creative team
behind this one and it all sarcast.

Uh, we haven't talked about it
yet, but I'm sure at some point

we will talk about Sunshine.

Um, it's a damn good movie about
a group of, uh, people from Earth

who, fly a rocket ship strapped to
a giant atomic bomb to re ignite

the sun because it's burning out.

which if, if that If those, if
those like two lines don't like,

if you're not all in at that point,
I don't know what to tell you.

We, we just had different tastes.

James: and it takes a horror turn.

It takes.

Yeah.

So

Jeremy: several horror turns.

Emily: like if Invent Horizon
was rat, like, was good.

I don't say rad, because Event
Horizon is fucking rad, but this

is like if it was good, like it was
like an actual Space Madness movie.

Jeremy: like physics concepts in
here that get pretty fucking wild.

That,

you know, are,

Emily: the, don't worry about the physics.

Jeremy: there's, there's a lot of,
there's some real trippy visuals and

some really amazing performances in here.

so yeah, check out sunshine.

I highly recommend that one.

for sure.

James, do you want to let people
remind people again where they

can find you online and remind
them what you have coming up?

James: sure.

Mostly, I haunt Instagram as James
underscore Asmus, and that's A S M U S.

And, uh, on, um, BlueSky as
just straight up James Asmus.

Uh, I left Twitter when
it became the X, and, uh,

Emily: hmm.

James: don't F around
with Facebook too much.

So, um, so those are the good spots.

but come on over.

And then, if, Puppets Fighting
Against Late Stage Capitalism,

Dehumanization sounds fun, and we
try to make it as fun as possible.

Then Survival Street comes out
in September, and your shop

can reserve a copy for you now.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

sounds great.

We'll definitely have
to check that one out.

Ben, can you remind people,
uh, where they can find you

and what you've got coming up?

Ben: Pre order Mr.

Muffins!

Emily: Yes.

Ben: for your friends,
your kids, your parents!

Please just help make this adorable
space quirky book a success.

And then I guess find me at, uh,
BenConComics on BlueSky and Instagram,

Emily: Yes.

Ben: but mostly the pre order Mr.

Muffins thing

Emily: Looking for a man in finance.

Ben: that I, look, I'm trying
to, like, I'm trying to get

creative with the marketing.

My, my new

strategy, meme reels.

Emily: Yeah, there go.

Jeremy: five, blue

eyes.

Ben: you.

Emily: five.

New eyes.

Megamoth.

net.

Mega underscore moth on Instagram.

Mega moth on Patreon.

Jeremy: yeah, and, uh, as for me, I'm,
uh, Jeremy Whitley on Blue Sky and

Tumblr and jrom58 on Instagram and
Twitter, uh, if you're still there.

when this is coming out, it will nearly
be September, so I will, we will probably

be through our mad dash of August
conventions, but you can still find me.

in, uh, in Madison at Madison Comic Con on
September 14th and 15th and at Baltimore

Comic Con, uh, where I'll be, signing at
the Mad Cave table and, wandering because

I don't have my own table at that show.

so yeah, track me down.

I don't know, follow, stalk
me, uh, somewhere in Baltimore.

I'm sure that's, that
won't be scary at all.

Uh,

that does it for us today.

Uh, James, thank you
so much for joining us.

This was a ball.

James: Oh my gosh,
thank you for having me.

I've, spent hours and hours listening
to y'all hang out, so it was

great get to talk, uh,
one that I dig with ya.

Ben: Oh, and it's been amazing having you.

It has been so great talking
this with you, James.

Thank you so much for coming on.

And, yeah, one last time, uh, where
can they find your upcoming release?

When's that coming out?

James: specifically September 25th,
but yeah, Volume 1 is available now.

And, actually, if people want a little,
little, taste, first one's free, kids.

we made, we made a, the one we made in
Pandemic was a 12 page self contained

short that's free on my, on our website.

So if you go to

futureskeletons.

com, as we will all be
eventually, Future Skeletons.

Ben: Technically, we're
all currently skeletons.

We just have

James: That's true, that's We're just
keeping it on the download for now.

But

we're loud and proud with our skull
and bones, that'll be, yeah, so you

could go there and download, uh, sort
of what we call Issue Zero for free.

If you want

Emily: Nice.

Jeremy: Fantastic.

Emily: fantastic.

Yeah

Jeremy: it goes back to
the golden age of comics.

Zero issues, negative ones.

all right.

thanks again, James.

Thanks to Emily and Ben for joining me.

Thanks to all of you for listening
and until next time, stay horrified.