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The Space Between – Heaven on Earth is a companion podcast to Awakening – Heaven on Earth.
Through intimate, heart-centered conversations, this series explores the lived experience of awakening — the questions, integrations, paradoxes, and sacred pauses where transformation truly occurs.
This is the space between knowing and becoming…
where Heaven meets Earth through honest dialogue.
Welcome to the space between heaven on earth. This is a companion podcast to Awakening Heaven on Earth created as a space for reflection, conversation, and lived experience. Here, we enter the pause between knowing and becoming, between insight and embodiment, between heaven and earth. These conversations are not about answers or conclusions. They are about presence, about listening, about reasoning together, about meeting one another honestly in the unfolding journey of awakening.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm your host, Jeffrey Aylor. Again, welcome and thank you for entering The Space Between with us. Good morning, and welcome to this edition of The Space Between. I'm your host Jeffrey Aylor, and in our last episode, we explored what we called the turning point. Those moments in life when our understanding of the world begins to shift, and today we're exploring what often follows that specific moment, and we're going to call this episode the Awakening Within.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's important to note, I think that awakening is not usually a single dramatic event. More often, it's a gradual process, a growing awareness that begins to shape how we see ourselves, how we relate to other people, and how we experience life. And again, I'm grateful to be joined this morning by my son Joel, my dear friends Joe Dermody and Sherry Keys as we explore what this inner awakening can look like in our lives. So before we go into the reflection questions, I just want to take a few moments and ask each one of you when you hear the phrase the awakening within, what does that mean to you personally?
Joel Aylor:So for me, it's awakening is felt less like discovering something new and more like remembering something I've been overlooking or something that's always been there. So it's just remembering more than it is truly being something brand new.
Joe Dermody:For me, it's it's becoming more aware not just of your physical surroundings, but of your spiritual surroundings that are always here, just not always aware to it.
Sherri Keys:For me, it's more like introducing myself to myself, becoming more in tune to who I am as a person. So that's what that means to me.
Jeffrey Aylor:I love that. Introducing myself to myself. You know, for me, it's become it's become the fact that I always thought that that I was separate from god, and that the awakening has been that I am god. Now that'll shock some people to say that because they would consider that blasphemy and heresy in their current beliefs, but the fact is is that Jesus himself told us, ye are gods, and it's recognizing that the very essence of God, the source, is my very essence, and it's who I truly am. It's not my ego is not who I truly am.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's a false identity. And I think beyond that, it's not only recognizing that within myself, as Sherry said, introducing myself to myself. It's then turning and being able to see and recognize that in everybody else. That that's a that's been a significant awakening for me is not only feeling it and seeing it within myself, but recognizing that all of us have, and that's who all of us are. We're all really one, and from that one source.
Jeffrey Aylor:And that that concept can change the entire world, and it can do it and it can do it very quickly, which is really the essence of the work where I think being asked to do through the Awakening Heaven on Earth platform here is to help people, to Joel's point, not achieve something or gain something that they didn't have before, but to recognize something that's always been within them, That it's always been there. They've always had it. It's just we have forgotten it. It's a remembering more than anything. So based on that, we're gonna jump into our reflection questions here, and we're going to start.
Jeffrey Aylor:With what are kind of the first signs, right? What are the things that as you've started and and I don't want to assume you consider yourself awakened? I don't think that that's that's a fair. I think some people may be standing just on the outside of awakening that might be listening to this, and it's it misses the beginning of that process, or it may be that turning point in listening to this podcast that they need to start to sense themselves, true self. But let's talk about these first signs.
Jeffrey Aylor:So when did you first begin to notice a shift in how you were seeing yourself or the world around you?
Joel Aylor:The the first signs for me, didn't necessarily notice right away. And and I agree that that with awakening, generally, it's a it's a gradual process. It's not usually something that happens quickly, but it can. And and I I think based on your last episode, you can kinda vouch for that too that when something traumatic happens, it can kinda wake you up. It can kinda shake your entire foundation and your entire world.
Joel Aylor:And, obviously, that that happened to me as well with with losing with losing Katie. I went from one day being a very quiet and shy kid who wasn't very wasn't all that outgoing, could talk to people but still very shy. To losing my sister and then literally the very next day, this urge and this desire to actually go in to the school the next day and actually stand in front of all of my peers in the auditorium and just talk to them and be with them. That wasn't that wasn't me. Then later that year, going to the school dance and dancing like like somebody who was one who always danced his whole life and was never one to wanna do that, something inside me changed.
Joel Aylor:I became very different that year, and and and, obviously, it all stemmed from that that one traumatic incident. So that can happen, but I wasn't fully aware of what it was doing inside me. Now fast forward a handful of years, maybe a actually, about a decade, and the first signs were not as dramatic. I came across a book that basically piqued my curiosity, and I think that's what a lot of this awakening is. It's not it's not coming to certainty.
Joel Aylor:It's it's it's basically arriving at some kind of curiosity. You find something and you follow it. And it becomes more like like lights coming on gradually, like a dimmer switch that you just slowly turn it on. And you get certain experiences that basically just start to break things down differently or you start to see things differently than you did before. And I I I can say, you you mentioned that, you know, people listening to this right now may be on the, you know, kinda back and forth, not really fully deciding whether or not they've are awakening or not.
Joel Aylor:I would say if they're actually finding this podcast, they're pretty they probably awakened. They're probably starting to start asking questions and be like, what's this one about? I wanna know what else what these people are saying about it. Because they're naturally becoming curious and wanting to know what else is there. And and once you start to see these things and once you start to ask these questions and start going down these paths, I don't I don't think you can unsee it, because I couldn't myself.
Joel Aylor:I I don't think I could go back to the way I was before, not having seen or understood what I've come to understand. But then fast forward into COVID where the world shut down, I could literally feel the energy just shift in the world. And it it and everyone paused. Everyone stopped. And that's when I truly went from having just a having had years and years of just crazy amount of reading, absorbing information, and going down different rabbit holes and learning things to where I stopped, and I went inside myself.
Joel Aylor:I took the time to sit and meditate and just listen. And that was the one of the most beneficial things of having gone through that pandemic was that it gave me that opportunity to stop and slow down and and go inside. And it massively changed my look on life, my understanding of things. So there were a couple different points where I could find where awakening blossomed, but it it awakening seems to happen on a daily basis.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you know, you you had a different experience than than I did with Kate, and I had mentioned that, I think, in the podcast last week with Katie's passing because we have such different experiences and relationships. I can honestly say you were almost instantaneously a different person.
Joel Aylor:Without a doubt.
Jeffrey Aylor:And, you know, it was As as traumatic and difficult as that experience was and still is in many ways. It's also one of the. The brightest points that we've had in life, and that's that that may shock against some people for me to say that.
Joel Aylor:But yeah, it's hard. How do you find that much good in something so bad? Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:But that's you know, we'll touch on this in later episodes, the concept of alchemy, alchemizing an experience like that and taking it and through transmutation and fire, which there is a lot of fire going to go through, you can transmute that horrible traumatic experience into something that is precious, and and I think, you know, that's what we've been trying to do. That's really the essence of what, again, these teachings are designed to help people with. You also touch on the readings and things that you were doing. You know, a big part of this platform are the recommended readings that we do each week for each episode or for each topic, and the sacred texts that we share, which to me, of all the episodes we do, I think those two are probably my favorite, and and I hope that the listeners, if you haven't taken the time to spend some time in those recommended readings and sacred text episodes, will find that they're that they they are designed to be In some cases they will be the turning point as you listen to those, and we come at it from a very ecumenical point of view.
Jeffrey Aylor:In other words, a universal view. We don't just look at any Christian text. We don't just look at we look at text across multiple traditions, multiple belief systems. We look at readings that come from psychology and science and philosophy and and religion and spirituality. So it's there's just a common theme and message, and many of those books can be a trigger for a turning point that then helps you turn inward.
Jeffrey Aylor:Really, that's what this episode is saying. Once you have that turning point, the turning is to turn inward. Most everybody wants to look outward for things, solutions.
Joel Aylor:I'd say you had kind of a turning point as well with with one of those one of those books.
Jeffrey Aylor:Oh gosh.
Joel Aylor:Many. Many books. Yeah. Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:But definitely. Definitely single books I can point to in my life that were a turning point. So that's why we love to share the recommended readings and hope people will be able to they'll find one. One of one of those books. It's not gonna be all of them.
Jeffrey Aylor:Just one of them.
Joel Aylor:Well, mine my one of my turning points, that one, you know, say fourteen years ago or so came from not a religious source at all. It came from a historical fiction novel that just basically was pointing to something actually that was real. It was discussing a a book and an idea that was real, and I found it interesting. And it it absolutely launched me on a on a journey that I basically that just changed my life. Completely changed my life.
Joel Aylor:So
Jeffrey Aylor:I had a response from the podcast this last week, the that from from someone that we know and have known for a long time that listened to the podcast, and it really resonated with them. And in their communication with me, they shared that one of the key things that really was a turning point for them was a book called How to Change Your Mind, which you and I know, Joel, is by Michael Pollan.
Joel Aylor:Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:And now he didn't say the name Michael Pollan when he put that in the message, so I responded back to him, and I said, hey. You know, Joel and I really are big fans of Michael Pollan's work. And so, you know, just hey. It's awesome to know. And he sent back another message and said, oh my god.
Jeffrey Aylor:This is probably the most exciting response I've ever gotten to a message. You actually know who that person is.
Joel Aylor:Oh, yeah. He's one of my he's by far my one of my favorite authors. Yeah. But that person you're referencing there was was the fair the very first person who came to me after Kate after Katie died. He had heard it before I heard it, and I was the first in our family to know that she had passed.
Joel Aylor:And I walked outside, and the very first person to find me and embrace me was him.
Jeffrey Aylor:Ain't that something? Now that this the synchronicity of all of it, I think, is beautiful, which I also shared with him the concept of synchronicity and Carl Jung, and he said, oh my gosh. I can't believe we're having this discussion.
Joel Aylor:Sounds like we need to bring him on. Maybe he wants to talk about some stuff.
Jeffrey Aylor:I would love. I would love to. We'll have to see we'll have to see if he's willing to because he I know he does his own little podcast, which I think is great. So alright. So we've gone along on this very first question.
Jeffrey Aylor:So, Joe, we'll turn it over to you now.
Joe Dermody:So I I think I'm a deeper sleeper than you guys. I I don't think I awoke so dramatically. And in fact, I think I'm still a little groggy and waking up a lot slower. I don't know if you know, I'm fortunate not to have had a traumatic experience to go through there. I don't think, you know, I had a a jolt, but I'm I think it's a I think my it it's definitely a slower awakening, and it's a I I think it was curiosity here that is bringing it in.
Joe Dermody:And some of the first signs are slowly recognizing that there's I'm seeing more than others. More more empathy, more the ability to do and see how my actions reflect the actions of others and the ability to cope with that a little bit. Right. So and I think that that that kinda happened more and more when I met you guys, to tell you the truth, and the people that I'm I'm with at work, my my work family, the Byron games, and I think that that's those were some of the first signs. And it started that was my big turning point, I would say, or one of the big turning points for me, because it made me look at things differently.
Joe Dermody:And it wasn't because we are talking about all of this. It just stopped, and we we talk about vibration levels. We talk about a lot of different things, and I think it's because I started vibrating at a higher level because of those that I'm around. And I think that's a huge thing. So I wouldn't say that I'm fully awakened.
Joe Dermody:I think that it is a journey, just like for a lot of people. It's a journey that I'm super excited to be on, and it is something that I am actively pursuing. And, yes, I'm slightly awakened. Right? For sure.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, I can help you by saying, yes. You are definitely you are definitely in the process, and and it's, you know, it's beautiful to know that, you know, we have been able to be a part of that, and I think that I think that's an important message for each of us is that if we will do the inner work and we will resonate ourself at a higher level, people will feel that. They will see that. They'll be attracted to that, right, in a lot of ways, I think is really the word I'm trying to find. You get attracted to that.
Jeffrey Aylor:You may not understand why you wanna be around somebody, but you know that when you're around them, there's something that you feel that is that is higher. Right? And that Absolutely. You wanna be in that, and you wanna understand that. I mean, I've watched you over the last couple of years, year and a half or so, you're going through a metamorphosis.
Jeffrey Aylor:We've talked about this personally. It's much like the caterpillar that that is moving, you know, through the process of becoming a butterfly. That happens internally. It happens inside a covering, a chrysalis, that your body really is a chrysalis, and to watch you transform physically and mentally and spiritually and emotionally, and other people are seeing it, and other people are responding to you, and people are gonna see you and respond to you that way and be attracted to you and to your your higher vibration. I I to me, it's just it this is this is so important.
Jeffrey Aylor:We talk in our work about outliers, statistical outliers, and a statistical outlier has significantly more weight as an individual data point than any of the other data points in a dataset. It pulls them. It pulls the data, the average of data toward the outlier. Well, that's what we wanna be. We can be all caught up in what I call the hairball.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? The world in general is a great big hairball, and I like to be an orbiter. I like to orbit the hairball as an outlier and try to help pull people out of the hairball and, you know, into their own experience, and really that's what you've described, and what a blessing it is to, you know, for us to have and and none of this is by chance. No. We'll touch on this a lot as we go through all this.
Jeffrey Aylor:This is not by chance. Sherry and I talk about this all the time. There is no chance.
Joe Dermody:We are all here for a reason.
Jeffrey Aylor:We are here for a reason. We touch each other for reasons, and we touch each other in the right times of our life for reasons. So alright, Sherry.
Sherri Keys:Well, me, I think when there's triggers, obviously, in most people's lives that allow you to begin to go through this journey of awakening. And I will say I've had my share of triggers. But also as I look at myself, I'm also still in that journey because I'm still thirsty for understanding purpose. So what is my purpose? What is it that I'm supposed to accomplish?
Sherri Keys:Do how am I supposed to move people? How am I supposed to ultimately make a difference? So my triggers have allowed me to see life differently, see people differently, realize that everything I see is not always the truth in terms of what my eyes tell me. Given God has given me internally through this internal awakening that I've experienced in my triggers and understanding that there is more that to see beyond what I what I think I'm seeing, that the spirit and God's message moves amongst us. And it comes in different ways and different, like Jeff was saying, nothing's by chance.
Sherri Keys:So in thinking of one trigger, I remember the loss of my children. And before that, I had met this really nice person. I worked with them And I moved to a different area, but I never like really built a really close relationship with them. But I worked with them and thought they were really nice. And I remember getting the news that they lost their twins, twin girls.
Sherri Keys:And I immediately was like, I I want to do something. I'm going to go to the funeral. I want to how can I be in that moment to help her through that that loss? And I remember, you know, just being there, just, you know, hugging her and, you know, just thinking, I don't know what else to do. And so happens that a little over a year later, I was placed in that very same position.
Sherri Keys:I had twins. I lost them the very same way. We buried them. You know, it's the whole thing. And I remember going through that whole journey and with God.
Sherri Keys:Why I don't understand. And
Joel Aylor:I'm sorry,
Sherri Keys:But I remember that the only person I could reach out to was that person. And they helped me understand it's like God put them in that place for me to understand how to navigate through that journey and that their journey was for my journey. And then my journey ended up later to be for someone else's journey. So I began to just really understand more about life and that there's a bigger purpose and that everything that comes our way is for us to learn to gather, to be more wiser than we were before, to be able to reach people in this world in a different way, in a way in which we need they need us to be there. That's kind of my journey.
Sherri Keys:I'm sorry for getting emotional about that, but.
Jeffrey Aylor:I love that you get emotional. I think it's it's it's it's important that. We share this this. Vulnerability, right? Everybody who thinks that awakening is a peaceful, beautiful, all butterflies and rainbow experiences, they don't understand it.
Jeffrey Aylor:They don't understand that awakening in many cases can be very dark. It can be quite difficult as we deal with who we really are internally, and and the experiences that we have to go through in order to to awaken can be, as we all know, traumatic. Right? We'll touch on another concept later in all in all the learning called soul contracts and soul families, and I really think in many ways that's what we are. This little group, we're a soul family, and we have been, and we've known each other in previous experiences, and we've chosen to come and be together and to go through things together and learn and teach and share, and it's what creates a bond that goes beyond even blood family, which I think is is a beautiful concept if you're open to it, and I'm not going to ask anyone or force anyone to believe in soul contracts or soul families, but I think if you'll take the time to consider it, I think you're going to find that it is beautiful and that it is.
Jeffrey Aylor:It explains a great deal about our human interactions. You know, another thing about awakening is when you start to. Recognize that you are not your thoughts. You're the observer of your thoughts. That you're the consciousness behind thoughts That you have the ability to.
Jeffrey Aylor:Respond and think and reason around those thoughts. You don't just react, you respond, right? That's the whole concept of this. This podcast is to do that is to stop and think and reason in the space between heaven and Earth and the space between stimulus and response. And to observe what are what am I thinking?
Jeffrey Aylor:What what are these thoughts? Where are these thoughts? Thoughts to me. Come and go like radio waves. And.
Jeffrey Aylor:Depending on how you're tuned, your radio dials tuned, you're going to pick up either higher thoughts or lower thoughts. Right? Based on where you're tuning yourself from in a frequency. And I think that's a. An important part of awakening is starting to recognize.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're the observer of thought. Your thoughts are not you. And you can tune and change the stations that you choose to to connect with. I want to jump in though to another question here. On compassion, because I think our conversation already this morning.
Jeffrey Aylor:Kind of lends itself towards this question, and that is as our awareness grows through awakening. A lot of people report that they feel greater compassion toward other people. Have you noticed changes in how you respond to people or situations over time?
Joel Aylor:Yeah. So compassion can grow naturally when the sense of separation kinda softens and dissolves. You start to see people less like obstacles and more like fellow travelers on this journey. You get less caught up in defending who you are and what you are, and and and you start to see their struggles that they're carrying and and and relate, and you can start to become compassion compassionate towards them and come from a place of understanding and and want to help. And and yeah.
Joel Aylor:So it's it basically it definitely it it awakens you to all the interconnectedness and the fact that the separation between us and each other and us and God is is not an actual reality. It's it's something that our minds basically create and and basically make us feel separate when there is no actual separateness.
Joe Dermody:I I I feel that I've had a a big level of compassion all the time. I I've been very compassionate with a lot of people, but I find that it gets easier to put myself in their shoes and look at it from their point of view as this process continues. It's something that I've been I've always been able to do, but it it happens easier now. And it happens on even another level. It happens not only with people now, but with with animals and insects and, you know, even even the earth itself where I didn't consider it in the past.
Joe Dermody:So now it's like everything that I feel is is living and around us. I used to have a a phobia with spiders to the point where if one crawled out on the dashboard, I wanted to jump out of a moving vehicle. It was pretty bad. And now it doesn't affect me really at all to the point where I I don't I don't really wanna reach down and put my hand, you know, and have them crawl on me. But I definitely have no urge at all to kill a spider or to have it, you know, removed from my presence.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you know, what you're describing there is, again, the difference between reacting and responding.
Joel Aylor:Yeah.
Jeffrey Aylor:You're more responding to the spider in a more less emotional way. Right? With a little different understanding and instead of just reacting, which would have been jumping out of a moving car, which would not have been a good idea.
Joe Dermody:Well, and again, Logical Joe knew that that was not a good thing to do. You know, terrified, petrified Joe just wanted nothing to do with that that spider at all.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, you know, you've also been talking a lot about how you feel like anger is and anger is directed toward other people and what other people do or what other people trigger in you in most cases, right? Yeah. And how you've you feel that and and some of that is coming through your Ricky training that you're doing, where one of the principles is precepts is, you know, just for today, I will not anger.
Joe Dermody:Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. And that is and that's noticed by other people as well. I was at dinner with my my mom earlier this week, and even she said, you know, there's not as much that bothers you anymore, is there?
Joel Aylor:It's like,
Joe Dermody:I really I work at that, but you are right. I I don't I don't anger as easily as I used to. And she said, yeah. I've been noticing that, which is it is a good feeling to have somebody else notice that as well. But but she's right.
Joe Dermody:I don't I don't get angered quite as easily as I as I once did. And that's such a good thing not only to to hear, but also, you know, it I I just it's a great feeling to not be angered as as easy.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, compassion doesn't always have to be toward other people either. It can be toward yourself. Absolutely. Be compassionate towards yourself.
Joel Aylor:That's a big one too. That sometimes is required first before you can handle being compassionate towards others.
Joe Dermody:And not easy. Not always easy.
Sherri Keys:I think for me, the compassion is just part of who I am. It's a core belief that kind of drives me. It drives my emotional disposition, how I interact with people. I think that having gone through different stages through life and becoming a little more aware, only of myself, but people around me, allows me to interact with the world differently. Doesn't mean I don't get disappointed in behavior and responses, but it means that I'm coming from a place where I realize that other people have other triggers and drivers that they're they're dealing with in their lives, that if I believe that the core of of who some individuals are is always coming from a good place, that I just have to understand how to reach that.
Sherri Keys:And I think the best way of reaching out is through compassion. I've always was always taught that you could get more from kindness. And so that's kind of been the guiding light for me. And I I feel like in some aspects that my purpose in life is to to spread kindness.
Jeffrey Aylor:You know, the fruits of the spirit that are taught in the Christian scriptures are love, joy, peace, long suffering or patience, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, and temperance or self control. And in order to be compassionate, you have to exhibit those spiritual characteristics. And as you become more aware of that you are spirit first, you are spirit. The characteristics of your true being are love, joy, peace, gentleness, goodness, faith, meekness, temperance, patience. All of that tends then to expand from you.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I agree with with Joel, but you've got to feel that for yourself, or it's gonna be very difficult for you to really feel that for other people because you're not separate from each other. You really are the same, and this is the love is the glue that unites us. That's why the next, season for this podcast next year is gonna be all based on love, the second book in the the series. And it's not just love. It's unconditional love, which is a totally different thing than what most people realize.
Jeffrey Aylor:And so, you know, for me, compassion, it's taken me it's taken me a long time to to not be judgmental. It's hard to be compassionate for people if you're judging them. Discernment, again, we've talked about in the past, is different. It doesn't mean that I'm excusing people's behavior, to your point, Sherry, But I need to to recognize what the behavior is and then ask the question, well, why might they be behaving that way? What in them might be causing that?
Jeffrey Aylor:Because typically what we see on the outside with people is a long developed response or reaction, and it's not usually who that person really is. You've got to dig deeper to find out who they really are and and realize that we all have the same common characteristics and source. So it causes me compassion causes you to slow down when things happen, and you get triggered and you don't just react. You truly do take that space between that that trigger or whatever it is that is is igniting something in you to stop and think what should my response be? And I believe that as we awaken, as we continue to grow, what we'll find is that our initial response should be compassion, not anger, not.
Jeffrey Aylor:And when people see you respond in a compassionate way, It deescalates things. It it it a calm response will create a calm response. And a very aggressive response will generate an aggressive response. And. I could tell you right now, based on how the world is functioning.
Jeffrey Aylor:This world needs compassion. And I hope that this message resonates with people in the world, that we need to stop and be more understanding and compassionate of ourselves and others around us, and not just respond angrily and bitterly and because it's all it does is it it tends to escalate into what we see happening actually in the world today, and it's unfortunate, and I think here's the thing. It doesn't have to be this way. The world does not have to be this way. It is we make it this way.
Jeffrey Aylor:We create this reality of what we think we're seeing. So another big part of awakening often involves us questioning beliefs or assumptions that we've held for a long time, deep beliefs in some cases, And we all know what happens when we assume assumptions, right? Have there been ideas or perspectives that you've had or held for a long time, in some cases lifetime, that you've had to release as your understanding and your awakening evolves?
Joel Aylor:Yeah. We like to cling to old stories. We like to cling to identities that we've created of ourselves. And, you know, when I mentioned before that before my sister passed, I was a very shy, reserved kid who didn't didn't go out of his way to to be the center of attention or to be out outgoing and social, and and that changed right away. I I became more outgoing.
Joel Aylor:I became a very different person. And the and the same goes with the journey that I went on not long after that when it came to, you know, my beliefs, you know, growing up as in a Christian household like like we did, that was the identity that I was a Christian. You know, I everyone tell tells walks around and says, I'm a Christian. I'm this. You know?
Joel Aylor:But then I started to, you know, ask questions. I always I'm always asking questions. I never ever stop. And so I started to ask questions of things that didn't make sense to me or didn't feel right to me. And and I eventually loosened that, and I, you know, started to learn from other religious backgrounds or other spiritual teachings and finding that they all were saying the same things.
Joel Aylor:So I let go of my old story to say that I was just a Christian, you know, even though all this learning reinforced and and actually reinvigorated my beliefs and and what some of that Christian religion taught, but I was no longer identified to that old story that I was just that. And, I mean, we don't we we choose to be this we can choose to be different day in and day out, and that's one of my favorite things that that, like, Alan Watts would talk about it. You have a choice every single day, every moment. You're not the same person you were even yesterday, and I can even vouch for that. I got blood work back yesterday saying that my cholesterol was high.
Joel Aylor:So today, I've already made decisions to to do things differently. I'm not the same person I was yesterday. You know? It literally can be that that simple. Day in and day out, you can choose to be somebody different than you were before.
Joel Aylor:And and that's hard for some people because it's comfortable to to just feel like you know who you are, but that certainty limits you. The curiosity is what opens things up. And and it and it's hard because but think of it this way. So the ability to to entertain a thought without having to fully accept it. So, basically, you get a thought that, oh, can I do this, or is that right, or does it feel right?
Joel Aylor:It it may it may resonate with you. It may it may not. You have that choice to to to go either way, but stay curious. Quit being so certain that you have all the answers, that you have the that you are this person, that you can't be anybody but this person because you change every single day. You are not the same person day in and day out, but we but our mind tricks us and makes us think that this is me.
Joel Aylor:I am Joel. I am a pharmacist. I am nothing else but these things, and that's not true. So we like to hold on to old stories that we've created, which isn't always bad. It's just if we don't allow ourselves to grow out of those old stories and into something new.
Joe Dermody:So I had convinced myself that and a lot of these things are stuff that I put on myself. These are self made shackles. Right? And one of them was that meditation was useless. Right?
Joe Dermody:And that there's no way I could sit still for more than five minutes without music on, without a video game, or without a book in my hand. No way I could do anything like that. And here I am now daily sitting for, you know, fifteen to forty five minutes, and and it's a wonderful feeling. It's restorative. It's it's educational.
Joe Dermody:I I mean, for me, it's it's it's a wonderful thing. I had myself convinced that I was always gonna be fat, that I could not lose this weight. I had been a big guy for so long, and everything I tried, I could not lose weight. I could stay stable, but I none of it would come off. And finally, it started to do that.
Joe Dermody:Somebody told me, think of yourself as as then you have the power to do this, and that was a big catalyst for me to start thinking that way. And lo and behold, you know, I've lost a 100 pounds since that that that statement. It's taken years to do it, but I've done it. It's a mindset. No.
Joe Dermody:You know, some somebody started to teach me about vibration level and started thinking about that. And I always knew that, you know, a smile can change a lot. Right? But to actually see it work and to start thinking about about that and watching it happen, I I try to raise the vibration level everywhere I go now. You can call it whatever you want.
Joe Dermody:You know? You don't have to believe that it's a vibration level inside of you. It call it what you want, but smile where you go. Think positively where you go. Bring a better a better feeling wherever you go and watch and see what happens, and it is amazing.
Joe Dermody:You can change a sour mood in in yourself, in other people that you're having a communication with, just in a in a room, in a go outside and watch what happens when you think positively and smile. Watch what happens around you. It is phenomenal. So, yeah, there's a lot of things that I've had to let go of and start thinking about, and it it is it's a good thing. And I think we all do that daily, weekly, yearly.
Joe Dermody:It's it's we're here to learn. And in order to learn, you oftentimes have to let go of what you thought was right and go at it with an open mind.
Sherri Keys:I guess for me, society has always told me that I was different. So I walk in that thin for however many years I've been on this earth, I won't disclose that. But, you know, society looks at me as different. But me internally, and the way I was raised and how I feel about myself, I know that God has made all of us the same. We're all made in his image.
Sherri Keys:We bleed the same, we feel the same, we hurt the same, we're all the same. And so that has been a guiding light for me as I continue to navigate through you know, various challenges that are presented to me on this earth, I know that spiritually, and that awakening of me walking in my faith and understanding that, that I'm the same to God, that he's going to reach and touch and mold me to do the things that, you know, his will is put out for me to do, just like he would do anything, just like he would do for any of his children. So I also wanted to just quickly make a comment about just learning to being in that moment where you're caring and you're loving people and you're understanding where they are in life and you're putting that work in to do that, to know that people have various triggers and, you know, you just have to like slow down and really understand that in the moment, that it also feeds very heavily into your ability to forgive. Forgiveness is big. It allows you to grow internally for yourself, And it also helps you as you're maneuvering through relationships with others.
Sherri Keys:And I feel like a lot of that comes from self awareness, being able to be in the moment and slowing down the dialogue understand that we all have triggers and things, but also through that understanding, you're able to roll in that realization that you're able to forgive. And I think forgiveness is huge.
Jeffrey Aylor:So You know, Sherry, there's a book called A Course in Miracles was created by two psychologists. The one received this message through just it was just given to her. She channeled it really is how you would describe it, That just a lot like how this whole Awakening series has come to me. She received this in a download this book, this content, and the essence of that book, A Course in Miracles, says that miracles come from radical forgiveness. The reason that we don't heal, the reason that we experience a great deal of illness and sickness and disease, disease Is because of a lack of forgiveness.
Jeffrey Aylor:And forgiveness isn't for the other person, and it doesn't it doesn't say that what they did is Okay. Forgiveness is for you. It it being angry and bitter at someone over something is like taking poison and hoping they die from it. Right? You taking the poison and hoping they die.
Jeffrey Aylor:And forgiveness releases so much. Now I'm gonna tie this back to my response to this particular letting go of old stories. I've had to let go of a lot of old stories. The older you are, the more stories you have to let go of, And anyone who's watched me over my lifetime, and especially over these last twenty some years, know that I have gone through a lot of change. I think most all of it is for the better, And I believe it's been healthy.
Jeffrey Aylor:There's still a lot to do, a lot of change to go through. In fact, this morning, one of the things that I was meditating on is the fact that I'm going through another major period of significant change. I'm not the person I was. And some people around you will be able to handle that, and some people around you won't be able to handle that. And that's okay.
Jeffrey Aylor:But I had an experience this week where I had given someone a copy of the book A Course in Miracles, someone I love and care about very much, someone who I felt very strongly was fairly open to learning and receiving things and and considering thoughts that might challenge old stories that they've held. Well, one of the old stories, and I've had this, I've had to let go of this, is that the Christian Bible is absolute truth. You can't question it. You don't say anything about it that would that would cause anyone not to think that it is absolute authority with no error. No.
Jeffrey Aylor:We are just no way you can you can question it. Well, I had given this person a copy of the book, A Course in Miracles. And they brought it back to me this week. And left a note, which is fine, that said, hey, you know, I really haven't read it. I've just kind of looked through it, but I'm not comfortable.
Jeffrey Aylor:I'm not comfortable with this book. I I believe the Bible is what is my one and only guide and that this is not this. I don't feel comfortable that this book is appropriate or that it's right, and I'm thinking to myself again out. Okay. How and why?
Jeffrey Aylor:Would this be the response? And it has to do with. We've been taught. We've been conditioned to think in certain ways and have certain beliefs and certain assumptions that if you question them or if you challenge them, people will they go into fear. They get they're afraid to question the foundations that they had stood on up to that point.
Jeffrey Aylor:Now that it's just interesting that the other major lesson contained in A Course in Miracles is that we all have a choice in life. You either choose love or you choose fear, and A Course in Miracles says choose love. Now I've read the Christian Bible many times, and there is absolutely nothing that I have read in A Course in Miracles that's teaching choose love over fear and radically forgive people so that you can heal. That message is the same message that's in in in those supposed Christian scriptures or Bible. And because I I'm able to see that because I let go, I let go of the fact or this this underlying belief that this is truth and anything else outside of that is to be questioned as truth.
Jeffrey Aylor:And and what I'm finding is that. It's fear. It's a fear. To let go of that. I went through that.
Jeffrey Aylor:I can tell you when Joel first exposed me to a couple of things here. Not that I wasn't leaning that way because I was, but that doesn't mean there's not fear, right? I mean, he mentioned earlier about, you know, books that he shared with me that. That were turning points and understanding and opening up mind and thinking. And and as much as in that last episode, I talked about Katie's passing being a turning point.
Jeffrey Aylor:Joel's also been a great turning point. I've learned more from my kids at this point, you know, than just about anybody, and I think that's awesome. I'm mean, even though I'm their father, and I think they should know that I'm more intelligent and smarter all the time than they are. I'm not. See, that also is something I've had to let go of.
Jeffrey Aylor:An underlying belief or assumption that I'm smarter than my kids are.
Joel Aylor:But now you're exactly right. You hit the nail on the head talking about that person. You know, they had to let they would have to let go of an identity that and belief system that they've built their life around, and that's scary.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's very scary, and I love them, and I know that they're they are where they are. I'm not judging. I'm just I'm just discerning. Why would I see this, and why did we get this response? And and then for me, do I even respond to that?
Jeffrey Aylor:No. I don't. It's not up to me to respond to that. I just at least I know at this point. You you
Joel Aylor:plant you've planted a seed. You You've planted a seed, and it's up to them to I mean, it it's perfectly fine if they the the problem I have with I've had these same situations before where I've where I've given a book where I thought felt like somebody may be open to to to reading it. It's not to say that I'm trying to change their belief system or say that I'm right and they're wrong. That's not it. It's more if if basically, if you can't read something that isn't your your scripture, and it if you can't read it with an open mind and and and be curious about it, and then, basically, it reinforce what you already believe, then there's a reason for that.
Joel Aylor:And that uncomfortable feeling is basically showing you kind of the weak points in your belief systems or in in what you're understanding. It's not necessarily a bad thing, and it's not dangerous, but people think it is. They because it it it tears their identity, but that's no different than the entire New Testament story. It's exactly what Jesus was doing. He was questioning the authority at the time saying, you don't even you're not quite understanding what it is it's trying to teach you, and they killed him for it.
Joel Aylor:So
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, it's it it yeah. Because it's totally disruptive. It generates great people respond aggressively when they're in a state of fear. Right?
Joel Aylor:Very much. Yeah. And, yeah, when you become defensive, if you if if someone becomes defensive when you have these conversations or share this stuff with with them, they're not ready.
Jeffrey Aylor:No. And and and again, that's Okay. You have to know where people are and understand, you know, at at what what's your point. But. I I I took the position myself personally, Okay?
Jeffrey Aylor:What's the worst thing that's going to happen if I consider something that might seem to be different? All I'm going to do is either convince myself that what I believed before was either accurate or not, or I'm going to learn something new and get to a better or higher point. Yeah, if if if the Bible is a plumb line that most people have said for what truth is and what is not. Then when you read something that's not consistent with that. You have a choice.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's a choice, right? So I think it's important that. People will not even open their minds. The person didn't even read the book.
Joel Aylor:That's the that's the part that that bothers me sometimes in these situations. It's not again, it's not a right and wrong thing. It's just be open, be curious, be willing to actually look into something other than what you already think you know for sure. When we don't all have the answers.
Jeffrey Aylor:Exactly. So and you know, the other thing is that A Course in Miracles, by the way, if you're not familiar with it as you're listening to this. Is not even considered. It's not. It's considered a spiritual book, but it's really more of a psychology book.
Jeffrey Aylor:The people involved in the creation of A Course in Miracles were psychologists. And it comes at spirituality from a very psychological standpoint. And, you know, take it or leave it. But it doesn't hurt. It's not.
Jeffrey Aylor:This is what leads to book burning.
Joel Aylor:Exactly.
Jeffrey Aylor:Right? This is that kind of a belief that this is this is the only thing I could focus on that's true. Anything that questions that is bad. I'm going to burn that because I'm not comfortable with that because my comfort is in this, right? Then you are now controlled by that, controlled by that.
Jeffrey Aylor:And I don't think that was the entail. Joe, you had you had a comment?
Joe Dermody:Yeah. Well but I think I think too, though, this is just a position where they're not comfortable with it. They're not ready for it. So and and I think, you know, that that's perfectly fine
Joel Aylor:Mhmm.
Joe Dermody:In in this situation. And I think it's a a good place to be right now. I mean, doesn't it doesn't sit with everybody. So you know, and
Jeffrey Aylor:you know, Joe, well as anybody that I tend to be a seed planter.
Joe Dermody:Absolutely. Yep.
Jeffrey Aylor:And with great patience, we'll wait two, three, four or more years to watch something develop.
Joe Dermody:Yep. So Yeah. And and and that's the wonderful thing, though, and and I I that's what I love about this podcast and the material that is out there now as well. Right? This will resonate with some people, and that is fantastic.
Joe Dermody:And for others, it's not their cup of tea. Right? So so that's that's perfectly fine.
Jeffrey Aylor:Leave it.
Joe Dermody:And everybody has their choice to sit here, listen, get what they can out of it, and and maybe a seed will be planted. And people will start looking into things and and learn something from it, and other people just aren't ready yet. And you know what? Awesome.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's
Joe Dermody:awesome. That is fantastic.
Jeffrey Aylor:I agree. So many people will describe awakening as becoming more aware or attentive to inner guidance or intuition. That sixth sense that gut feel the what I believe in is is really evidence of the God at God in you and God's influence in you. How do you recognize that voice inside yourself? How do you recognize is this my intuition?
Jeffrey Aylor:Speaking to me,
Joel Aylor:I think it's kind of a gut feeling that we talk about. I think it's I think that intuition and the inner guidance is just your soul talking to you, but you can only generally hear it when you've when you've quieted the mind. So the mind is noisy. The the mind is constantly constantly talking, and it it takes calming that a little bit and and actually paying attention to inner inner voice and the inner inner guidance inside of you. I mean, the your mind is you know, it's a a great servant, but a terrible master.
Joel Aylor:So it does not it's not one to always listen to. It's it's a great tool. It helps us tremendously. It provides us a lot of different things, but the inner guidance and the inner still air comes from comes from inner stillness. And it's that's the the challenge with meditation is that while you're sitting there being still, the mind just constantly moves and is going here and here and here, and you just gotta realize that you're the observer behind that, calm it down, and then you can find that inner guidance from stillness.
Joel Aylor:And and when you do find it, it's it's amazing what can can come up out of that that stillness. Some of the some profound insights can come from just being still.
Joe Dermody:I think this is individual and different for everybody because I think some people just get it. And I think that's awesome for them because I didn't. I'm a lot like you too, Joel, where I I have to try to calm my mind a lot in order to start seeing it, but some people just have that intuition. Some of them just have that ability to to to feel and to see some of this stuff, I think. And some people are born with it, and some people, you know, it's generational even from some of the things I'm reading.
Joe Dermody:And what a gift. Right? But it did not come easy for me, and it's not. I mean, I will occasionally maybe see a glimpse or maybe be able to calm my mind to start start feeling something, but it is not easy for me. So I think it's it's depends on who you are, how you start to calm your mind, how you start to be able to meditate.
Joe Dermody:So it it's kind of an individual thing, I believe, and that you have to figure out what works best for you. So I think having going about it with an open mind and and sitting through, you know, some some podcasts, learning learning what you can learn and finding out how to do that and find out what works best for you. So Yeah. And I'm not real sure if there is a direct way to be able to do that.
Sherri Keys:Interesting. I read something around thinking about your thinking. So find that to be interesting. But for me, it's a gut feeling that you just feel when something's right. And that's kinda has been my guide.
Sherri Keys:But I I have find myself but to in order to even get to that point sometimes, that's not always the gut feeling is not always the first kind of reaction. There is a a moment in and as I'm reflecting in myself that I'm I'm thinking about my thinking. And I tell you what, that's a that's a process. But but if you learn to to be still still and figure out how to quiet the noise from the outside and even your thoughts that for me, I think you end up, you know, really getting to a point where you're, you're driving those things from your gut. And it just at that point, it feels right.
Sherri Keys:It feels good. It's a it's a good feeling.
Jeffrey Aylor:It resonates with you, right? That and resonation again, you know, you're you're you're you know that you're. You're tuning into something that just feels clear and correct and and vital. You know, I'm. An INTJ personality type.
Jeffrey Aylor:If you're familiar with the Myers Briggs, Carl Jung's theories of type, and we're big fans of Carl Jung. But as an intuitive introverted intuitive, those are two of the rarest elements in personality. Most everybody's extroverted. 75% of people are extroverted versus introverted, and about the same percentage are sensory. In other words, they take in information through their senses versus intuitive, someone who takes in information through their sixth sense.
Jeffrey Aylor:So it's again about a seventy five twenty five. So if you happen to be an introverted intuitive, lucky me. Right? I'm an introverted intuitive. You're a pretty rare type.
Jeffrey Aylor:And being different sometimes is a challenge, but it's also a blessing. I tend to be very internally focused the way I think and process, and I like quiet, which allows me to hear that inner voice, which is still and small and quiet, maybe a little more, than some others, but it doesn't mean I don't question it. Is that really what whose voice is that? What voice is that? Is that really the sort god source in me, or is it my ego?
Jeffrey Aylor:Which of those two is talking to me when I'm hearing this guidance? And I do have criteria that I use when I'm hearing it because I can tell you the messages are different. If if the guidance I'm getting is based again on love, joy, peace, long suffering or patience, gentleness, goodness, meekness, temperance. I know the source of that. Those are the characteristics of the god source in me.
Jeffrey Aylor:If I get things that make me angry or jealous or cause me to be envious or or to have an inordinate desire for something, I know that's my ego. I heard a really great message the other day because so much of Carl Jung's theory of psychological type, in fact, his whole philosophy, his philosophies are based on gnostic beliefs, gnosis, and within the gnostic beliefs, there's a concept called the demiurge, which is the lesser god that many people believe is responsible for physical creation, and the demiurge is the ego. It really is the ego. It's that false god, that false being, that false element of our being that we think is our true self, and it's not. And, you know, just learning to discern again between the two voices, because the two voices definitely come from different perspectives, It's very have been very helpful for me at least as I'm going through this awakening period, and and and it's and and it is a lifetime experience.
Jeffrey Aylor:That's the next part we'll touch on here before we bring this to a close is the fact that awakening is not a one time event. Awakening is an ongoing event. It it it it doesn't stop. Once you start or you recognize it or you're in it, It doesn't stop. You're never there fully, right?
Jeffrey Aylor:So. You know, do you see awakening as a destination? Or do you see it as an ongoing process?
Joel Aylor:I guess it's
Jeffrey Aylor:a question.
Joel Aylor:Yeah. It's absolutely an ongoing process. It's a daily process. It's a minute by minute process. It's it unfolds constantly.
Joel Aylor:And and and I'm a 100% guilty of of failing day in and day out, moment to moment, and I don't respond the way I I know I should. And and that's okay. I have to give myself grace. I have to give myself compassion to realize that I'm I'm not perfect. I'm this is still something I'm going through and still learning how to handle and and do better.
Joel Aylor:But that that's that's kind of the point. That's what this is all about. It's not about passing the test. It's not about perfection. And I think that's a that's a thought that gets in people's head that there's there's gotta be this we've gotta be perfect.
Joel Aylor:Get that out of your mind. We're human. Embrace your humanity. It's okay that we are human. Live it fully.
Sherri Keys:Be okay with that.
Joel Aylor:And that's one thing that I think that a lot of spiritual teachings, you know, either either, you know, tell you to do that or or some of them are are condemning of being human. And and it and it causes problems either way sometimes when, you know, you are both. You are a spiritual being in a human body. It's okay that you fail. It's okay that you have to go through this in your learning.
Joel Aylor:That's the whole point of this existence, and and it is ongoing. And and the more you peel things back, the and the deeper you go, the more beautiful things can be. And we see, like you said earlier, that that the life doesn't have to be this way, and we have the choice, and we have the ability to to make changes with ourselves and therefore throughout throughout the entire world.
Joe Dermody:I agree a 100%. A 100%. And, you know, we're here to live this life and to experience these experiences. And, yeah, it's a you're gonna make mistakes, and we're gonna learn from them. And that's what we're here to do.
Joe Dermody:And it's what a what a wonderful chance to be able to do
Sherri Keys:this. So yep. And so I have to ditto everyone on the on the podcast with the same thing. I mean, we're there's no race to perfection. Right?
Sherri Keys:Though we're I think God's plan or the spiritual plan for all of us is that everything in life that we are encountering is an opportunity for us to learn, for us to grow, for us to impact people that we care about, meet people, be be in that space for others that, you know, that need that at the time. And that comes from our journeys and the things that we learn and the mistakes we make and learn from them. I am yeah, it's a evolving process that I feel like I'm in every day. And I'm very grateful for it actually.
Jeffrey Aylor:Well, particular question is applicable to to most any religious belief. I know Christianity, you know, some people have boiled down Christianity to an event. You say this, you make this prayer, that one event, you know, everything after that really doesn't matter as much as that one event. Well, no, I'm sorry. It's way beyond that.
Jeffrey Aylor:It's a decision you make every day to follow to align yourself with the divine. And, you know, I'm thankful that we've, I think, are building with the Awakening Heaven on Earth platform a holistic approach to this. That's why the Living Heaven on Earth podcast and the Living Heaven on Earth book that will be coming out, they're designed that is designed as a companion to all of these lessons to give you daily daily practice. To constantly keep you every day in a position where you can remember who you truly are. You have to do it every day or you will forget.
Jeffrey Aylor:You will forget. It is a it's a constant vigilance to remember who we are because the world is got such strong power and energy to cloud your thoughts and vision and confuse you as to who you really are. So all this works together. You know the three podcasts, the Awakening Heaven on Earth podcast, which is really the foundational principles that we are coming to see. Different practices are in that.
Jeffrey Aylor:You've got this podcast, which then takes that content, and we talk about it, and we reason on it, and we think about it. Then you have the Living Heaven on Earth podcast where, you know, there are daily practices that you can use to help make this a regular part of your life, and remember. You know, I think it's important for us to recognize that awakening is not about becoming somebody new. It's about remembering who we are and have been all along. It's always been inside of us.
Jeffrey Aylor:We've just forgotten it. So as we bring this conversation to a close, it's really worth remembering that awakening rarely happens all at once. If it does, then I can tell you, you are going to probably have some very difficult psychological reactions and responses and physical responses to that. It has to happen over a longer period of time, and more often, it unfolds very quietly through moments of of awareness that you gain, reflection that you have, compassion you experience, and curiosity. I love the concept we've been talking about of just be curious.
Jeffrey Aylor:What's the Ted Lasso statement, Joel?
Joel Aylor:Be curious, not judgmental.
Jeffrey Aylor:Yes. I mean, how brilliant is that? So Joel, Joe, Sherry, thanks for sharing your insights again and all of your experiences today. And to those of you that are listening, I hope this conversation invites you to notice even a small moment of awareness within your own life that may be the beginning of awakening itself. So I appreciate you spending your time with us this morning, and with that, the space between continues.
Jeffrey Aylor:As we come to a close, remember that this journey continues in many expressions. This podcast is part of a family of partner podcasts. Awakening Heaven on Earth, The Space Between Heaven and Earth, and Living Heaven on Earth are three companion podcasts exploring spiritual awakening from complementary perspectives. Awakening Heaven on Earth offers the core teachings and mystical reflections on unity, love, and conscious living. The space between creates room for dialogue, reflection, and lived conversation around those teachings.
Jeffrey Aylor:Living heaven on earth focuses on basic spiritual practices that help embody these insights in daily life. Together, they form a unified journey of understanding, experience, and integration, inviting listeners to remember their connection with the divine, with one another, and with the living world. You can find all of them available on the same podcast streaming platforms wherever you listen. And if music helps carry these teachings deeper into the heart. The Unity.
Jeffrey Aylor:Awakening Heaven on Earth album is available on all major music streaming services as a musical companion to this journey. Wherever you engage, through listening, reflection, conversation, or music. May it gently remind you, you are not separate. You belong to the one life and heaven is already unfolding within you. Until next time.
Jeffrey Aylor:Walk gently, love deeply, and embody heaven on earth.