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Mentoring boys without father figures means playing the role of the father in that boy’s life, while simultaneously acknowledging that you are NOT their father. With that unique position is an ability to have hard conversations with them and to lead them in the path of righteousness. But in order to be effective in doing those things, you first need to be modeling them in your own life. Leading a boy in his walk with Jesus means pursuing your own walk with Jesus first. Leading a mentee in integrity means walking a life of integrity. These are the themes that Holden Royals touches on in this week’s episode. Forerunner’s 4th-5th grade coach, Holden Royals joins Josh on his summer takeover to talk through a lot of theology, his personal bible study habits, having direct and candid conversations with his boys as a rebuttal to Hell’s own direct attacks, and his why behind mentoring.
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Purchase the You Can Mentor book:
You Can Mentor: How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses
youcanmentor.com
Creators and Guests
What is You Can Mentor: A Christian Youth Mentoring Podcast?
You Can Mentor is a network that equips and encourages mentors and mentoring leaders through resources and relationships to love God, love others, and make disciples in their own community. We want to see Christian mentors thrive.
We want to hear from you! Send any mentoring questions to hello@youcanmentor.com, and we'll answer them on our podcast. We want to help you become the best possible mentor you can be. Also, if you are a mentoring organization, church, or non-profit, connect with us to join our mentoring network or to be spotlighted on our show.
Please find out more at www.youcanmentor.com or find us on social media. You will find more resources on our website to help equip and encourage mentors. We have downloadable resources, cohort opportunities, and an opportunity to build relationships with other Christian mentoring leaders.
You can mentor is a podcast about the power of building relationships with kids from hard places in the name of Jesus. Every episode will help you overcome common mentoring obstacles and give you the confidence you need to invest in the lives of others. You can mentor.
Speaker 2:Hey, mentors. Just a reminder about the You Can Mentor book. It's titled You Can Mentor, How to Impact Your Community, Fulfill the Great Commission, and Break Generational Curses. The whole point of this book is to equip and encourage mentors with new tools and ideas on how to make the most of their mentor mentee relationship. If you're a mentor, hey, go pick it up.
Speaker 2:And if you're a mentoring organization, pick some up for all of your mentors. If you would like to order mass copies, like more than 20, send an email to me, zach@youcanmentor.com, and we will get you guys a special price. But go and pick up that book. It's good. You can mentor.
Speaker 3:Welcome back to the You Can Mentor podcast. My name is Joshua Manning. You definitely have heard my voice for, like, the last 6 weeks. If you if you don't know who I am at this point, like, you need to just go back and listen to the last 6 weeks of episodes because I have done, Summer Takeover. I'm taking over the podcast for the summer, and I just I had some ideas that I wanted to run with and didn't actually bother to ask Zach or John.
Speaker 3:I just kinda did it. And then they they loved the idea when they found out, and so I'm just running with that. So today, we have somebody very special in the house. We got Holden Royals.
Speaker 4:Hello. Hello.
Speaker 3:He is one of our great coaches in the k through 6 program at Forerunner Mentoring, just like a few other coaches that have been on the on the podcast. But yeah. You know, as you know, we're we're just going through and asking our our coaches why they mentor because, well, it's a it's a part time job and it doesn't pay super well. So there's gotta be some kinda why behind that. Yes.
Speaker 3:Otherwise, we wouldn't be doing it. So just quick synopsis, you know, I'm the junior high site lead. I work with the junior high boys and in 4 Runner. Holden is in the k through 6. So I really don't get to see you very often.
Speaker 4:Correct. Yeah. If it's really only beginning or end of the day.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Beginning or end of the day. And maybe that's even only a couple times a week because Yeah. You know, you guys get there before we do. And Oh, usually.
Speaker 3:We get there at 3 Right. Outside of staff prayer, which is really when we see each other.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, we get there at 3. You get there at, like, 2, 2:15. Right. And so you guys are usually, by the time we get there, you guys are already on the boundary picking kids up. So maybe there's that, like, brief 30 seconds of drop off where we grab one of the vans to go over to the junior high.
Speaker 3:But then, you know, at the end of the day, like, we we technically end at the same time at 6 PM, but we're also at the junior high. And we have to run a van route for the kids Right. Going home, whereas all your all y'all's kids get picked up. Right. And so we don't usually get back until 6:30, 6:45.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:And This last year though, there have been quite
Speaker 4:a few of those days where we That's true.
Speaker 3:They were still there. And there were definitely a few of those days where where y'all were still there. And we're we'd pull it to the parking lot and be like, oh, they're still here. Cool. So we'd park the van and pop in the drop keys off and just hang out for a good 10, 15 minutes.
Speaker 3:And, you know, sometimes it was just a kid was you know, their their parent was late picking them up and you guys were just hanging out. Or sometimes you guys were, like, debriefing or doing highs and lows or something like that. Playing Foursquare. Playing Foursquare, man.
Speaker 4:Very intense amongst the coaches. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Is it is it always that intense during program when y'all are playing, or is it a lot more, like, chill, fun, laid back, and then the competitiveness comes out after all the kids have left?
Speaker 4:I mean, it's it's pretty chill and laid back unless which happened a lot this last year. Unless some of the boys are very, very serious about Foursquare. And we expanded it to 9 Square
Speaker 3:Oh, wow.
Speaker 4:Which is a lot of like, in the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 3:Is it 9 Square or is it 8 Square with
Speaker 4:the 9? Yeah. I guess it's 8 Square.
Speaker 3:There's a Because that middle square Right.
Speaker 4:We don't play it because it'd be it'd be impossible. Right.
Speaker 3:That kid would have to be turning around 360 all the time keeping track of that ball.
Speaker 4:Right. There's, yeah, there's no way to be in the middle square, at least the way that we're playing it. And I don't I know that it's a game before we started playing.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:But but we expanded to that, and the kids loved that. And so that was a lot of fun, but sometimes the boys, in the mix of, you know, having a lot of fun, get very get very aggressive and competitive. And so Taj and I Taj and another coach and I who I have 4th 5th grade, and he has 5th and 6th grade. And so we have the older boys.
Speaker 3:You split 5th grade?
Speaker 4:I believe so, to my to my understanding.
Speaker 3:Or is yours 3rd 4th? No. Because Jamari's 2nd and 3rd. Right. So so you split 5th.
Speaker 4:Right. Half of 5th grade, which they designate as, like, boys who are more mature, are going up with coach Taj in 5th and 6th grade. Gotcha. The other ones are Who need a
Speaker 3:little more growth.
Speaker 4:Exactly. Gotcha.
Speaker 3:Are back
Speaker 4:with me. And so we run-in a cohort, and we're very similar in the sense that when that starts happening, when the when the competitiveness from the boys starts happening, it's kind of like, alright. I guess I guess we're gonna be competitive today. Because if the boys beat you at anything for too long, it gets to their head,
Speaker 3:and and that cannot be happening. Yeah. I know. I I know. I've definitely had experiences with that where, like, I've changed the way in which I play the games, whether it's usually, it's basketball.
Speaker 3:Right? Because junior high students just love All
Speaker 4:they care about.
Speaker 3:That's all they care about is basketball. They don't even care about the video games. Like, the highlight of their program this year, I kid you not, was when we started going to the gym every day as opposed to 3 days a week. Yeah. We had students who literally would only show up on gym days.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Right? Because they just wanted to go to the gym Right. Right, and play basketball. And, like, I I have to adapt my playing style based off of who I'm playing with.
Speaker 3:So my first year our first year, because you've been here the same roughly the same amount of time that I have.
Speaker 4:Okay.
Speaker 3:Right? You you got hired in 20
Speaker 4:The spring of 20 21. 1.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I got hired fall of 2020.
Speaker 4:I was there though. 2022, actually.
Speaker 3:Because this is Oh, yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's 2023.
Speaker 4:2022. Right. When I got hired
Speaker 3:fall of 2021. So I was there for the that first semester, but then you came on in the middle. Right. But, like, that year, we had a kid who was an 8th grader. And he loved playing basketball, but he was also, like, half my size.
Speaker 3:Right? And for the record, I'm 6 4. Yeah. Right? I'm not small.
Speaker 3:He was, like, half my size. And at the time, we were at the in the student ministry building, which has its own little, like, basketball cage, which is basically the size of a key. Right? It's Yeah. It's fairly small.
Speaker 3:It's very small. And every time we'd play, he'd you know, and, like, especially if I'd, like, get right up on him and and block his shots without having to foul him
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Because he literally could not shoot over me.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:He was like, that's not fair. Like, you're twice my size and yada yada yada. And I'm like, yeah. And so with him, I learned that I had to, like, I had to back up and give him Right. About 3 feet Right.
Speaker 3:So that he can make those shots. Right. But I would only do that for a while because
Speaker 4:Then he starts winning.
Speaker 3:He start well, yeah. He would start winning, but he would also get really cocky about it. And I'm just, like, really super arrogant about it and be like he's like, you know, I'm the GOAT. I'm the man. Whatever.
Speaker 3:And I'm sitting there going in my head, yeah, because I'm letting you win. I literally like so every once in a while, I would like you know, I'd let him win for a little while. And then I'd be like, let's just remind him Right. That he's only winning because I'm letting him win. And so I would, like, actually play hard not hard, but, like, play a legit game a more serious game of basketball Right.
Speaker 3:And guard him. And just you know, for 3 or 4 shots in a row, just swat the ball away and, you know, just kinda and then back up again and just kinda remind him, like No.
Speaker 4:It's a lot yeah. It's a lot of the same thing in in the younger in the k through 6 program, the boys create rules for like, they want to one of the boys, I 1 v 1 ed almost every day, it was like, hey. 1 v 1 me. 1 v 1 me. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:And but all of that was with the caveat of you can't do any layups. You can't dunk, which
Speaker 3:I said dunk. Do any layups or dunk?
Speaker 4:I can't do any layups or dunk. But he can. But he can. But that's because the goal is, like, probably 7 feet.
Speaker 3:Oh, okay.
Speaker 4:And so it's it's not tall at all. But we I'm not allowed to to dunk or do layups, so I can only shoot from a certain distance away, and I'm not allowed to to play up on him defense like you were talking about.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And those are like
Speaker 3:The rules.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Those are the rules because, otherwise, it's they they don't wanna play because it's not fun for them to just you know, like you were like, that kid was half your size. Mhmm. And I'm 6 2, large guy as well, and most of the boys are, like, 4 feet tall.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Well, especially for k 36.
Speaker 4:Especially for k 6.
Speaker 3:There are definitely some junior high students who are as big as me.
Speaker 4:Right. A 100%. And so for yeah. For k through 6, it's it's all of that. But then there are also some k through 6 kids that are legitimately good at basketball.
Speaker 4:And so there were definitely times this last year where games got away from me, where I started, like, back not playing very hard.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And then they got so far ahead
Speaker 3:that you couldn't come back.
Speaker 4:There was, like yeah. I would I would try harder, but they were already so far ahead, and they would just make some they would make crazy shots. I'm not honestly.
Speaker 3:It's true.
Speaker 4:And a couple of them were legitimately very good.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:So that was always fun to hear about for the next 3 days after that happened.
Speaker 3:It was how you got crossed out or whatever.
Speaker 4:Crushed by Yeah. A 4th grader, which is fine.
Speaker 3:Yeah. That's a thing.
Speaker 4:But yeah. It's a it's a lot to say.
Speaker 3:Well, it's that. But it's also like we in junior high, we have we have some students who are legit good at basketball. Right? And they actually rise to the challenge. Right?
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, there are some students that JT and I have played, like, 2 on 2, 2 honestly, there have been some games that we've done, like, 2 on 5. Yeah. Right? It's, you know, it's been students versus coaches kinda game.
Speaker 3:Right. And those are the games that get ridiculous. Right. Right. Like, those are the ones that are hard because it's like, 1 especially 2 on 5, it's like, we only we don't have
Speaker 4:a whole lot of so much defense you can do.
Speaker 3:They're bad, but it's also there's only so much offense you can do. Yeah. Right? And don't get me wrong. JT's good at basketball.
Speaker 3:Yeah. He's terrible at passing the ball. So he's he's doing all of these, like, moves to try and cross out the students. And usually, he can get around them. But it's also just like it gets exhausting really fast.
Speaker 3:And some of these kids, like I said, are really, really good. And even on a 2 on 2 game, like, JT and I could play as hard as we wanted, and they would not complain at all. They they actually, like, legitimately enjoyed the challenge because in I think in their mind, it became like, if we can win, that makes this all the much sweet like, this victory all the much sweeter. And then when you get to really rub it in your face for Exactly. For, you know, 3 or 4 days, a week, whatever.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And then, of course, there's the staff versus students game that we were invited to. And the staff just completely destroyed the students. Right? And the students not being forerunner students, like, Lake Highlands Junior High does a legit, like, staff versus students game.
Speaker 3:And so the the staff or the the teachers will face off versus I think it's the boy 8th grade boys basketball team. And, yeah, it's a lot of fun. And we were invited to join them for the game That's awesome. And be in the game. And, yeah, that game was a blowout.
Speaker 3:It was, like, 65 to 12 or 18 or something like that. There was no mercy. Yeah. There was no mercy on that. Goodness.
Speaker 3:But, yeah, it's it's that kind of thing. And I think all of that just boils down to, like, we know our kids. Right? We know we know our kids. We know what they're capable of, what they're not capable of.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And we we adapt and adjust what we're doing based off of that. Right. And I know that we do that in the junior high. I know you guys do it in k through 6 because every it feels like every week I come over there and hang out for even 10 minutes at the end of program.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Like, the operating procedure is totally different because it's adapting. Right. Right. Right?
Speaker 3:So that is a very long winded intro that doesn't tell us anything about Holden, but that's okay if we're talking about mentoring. So Yeah. Holden, let's let's jump into this. Who is Holden? Like, give us the the 30,000 foot view.
Speaker 3:Paint us a picture. Who is Holden Royals Right. In terms of a person, mentoring
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Things like that.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. So I'm currently a seminary student at Reformed Theological Seminary here in Dallas. They have a bunch of different campuses. But I'm going to their Dallas campus getting my master's in divinity because I feel called to the pastor.
Speaker 4:I feel called to be a pastor. That's a fairly, fairly recent thing. I'm not a person who has felt called to that for my whole life, and my faith wasn't particularly strong, though I grew up in the church. Mhmm. But currently, student at Reformed Theological Seminary.
Speaker 4:Obviously, I have Forerunner in the afternoons. I have been married for it was 4 years in May. And so my wife and I, her name's Cheyenne, she is a teacher in Richardson, and she teaches 5th grade currently. Okay. We got married after our junior year of college in the summer, which was great because that was right before COVID hit.
Speaker 4:And so if we had waited a year and
Speaker 3:finished college,
Speaker 4:then it would have been a mess. It would have been a mess to
Speaker 3:say the least. It would be complicated.
Speaker 4:Right. Right. But that was that was obviously a huge shift, a huge change in my life was was getting married, and there's a lot that went into that. But went to Ouachita Baptist for my undergraduate in music business.
Speaker 3:Music business? Right.
Speaker 4:Okay. So did a lot of
Speaker 3:That's a switch from divinity.
Speaker 4:Yeah. No. Very, very different. Again, didn't I mean, I didn't feel called to ministry until probably roughly 3 years ago.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 4:But did production and and different music work in college. A lot of fun. Enjoyed it, but wrapped a lot of self identity up in that and being successful in that. That made it I mean, I I would have enjoyed it a whole lot more if I wasn't banking on it as far as, like,
Speaker 3:I could
Speaker 4:be good about myself and on my career and Yeah.
Speaker 3:You know, all that kind of stuff. I can relate.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Yeah. So doing did that in college, and, then most of my most of my life has been shaped by by men and Mhmm. Mostly by men who were supposed to be mentors or or important in my life and just kind of didn't do that. But that's, I mean, as you kind of mentioned way earlier, you know, in the in the introduction, kind of the the reason that or one of the reasons that I ended up at 4 Runner was because I lacked a father figure in my life.
Speaker 4:He was you know, I lived with him and he was around, but
Speaker 3:He wasn't really there Right. Or engaged.
Speaker 4:Right. He wasn't engaged. There was domestic abuse in the home, and so there was just a lot of stuff growing up that made it so my father and I were not very close. And when we were in the same room, there was a lot of animosity there. And so as I, you know, grew up trying to work through all of that stuff Yeah.
Speaker 4:You know, there were there were a handful of men that were there for some time, but I never really had a had a a consistent mentor or consistent father figure. And so when I heard about forerunning forerunner from a friend of mine and heard that there was a a ministry that was solely focused on raising up Christ like young men whose father figures were absent in their life. At a young age, it it hit super close to home. Yeah. And was I just didn't know that people were doing that.
Speaker 4:And so that was a huge part of that. But, yeah, the 30,000 foot view is is feel cool to be a pastor, married, excited to be in seminary, excited to be at 4 Runner. Yeah. Doing my best to love my wife and and love the boys and be diligent in schoolwork preparing for for being a pastor
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:When that comes about.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I love that. So I 1, I know like, I knew that you were in seminary just because we worked together. But, you know, that's that's also been, I think, a a big blessing for, like, staff prayer and things like that is that both you and Joel, like, know y'all know the bible better than probably anybody else on our staff. That's right.
Speaker 3:And that's right. Well, but it's also true. I mean, how many times has Steve had been like, what's that? What verse? This is either you or Joel would be like, it's us.
Speaker 4:I think Joel I think Joel's much farther along in that Right. But Mhmm. But I appreciate that.
Speaker 3:At least in being able to, like, off the bat, just be like, yeah. It's Philippians 14 or whatever. Yeah. Yeah. But the thing that I've noticed was while that while you didn't necessarily, like, have those bible references quite ready to go based off of what somebody else was Right.
Speaker 3:Sensing Yeah. You had in in many of the staff prayers, you you would bring, like, a fresh perspective to a story. Right? That maybe you had been studying Right. In school or in your quiet time or whatever.
Speaker 3:But you would be like, we would go into staff praying. You're like, we're praying over a specific theme for the day. And you're like, this ties in really well with this thing that I was studying. And then you would go on a whole, like, 5 minute explanation of how that applies. And that was for me, that was always really encouraging because it's like, oh, like, this is how okay.
Speaker 3:This is how a story in the Old Testament that, you know, I I sometimes struggle to, like, dive in deeper than surface level, especially with those stories. Right? Things in the new testament where it's, you know, Paul being like, do this, do this, do this. I'm like, okay. That's easier because it's he's commanding us to do this.
Speaker 3:How do how do I apply that in today's circumstances? But like drawing the parallels between, oh, David is, whatever, hiding in a cave, and this applies to my life this way, that way. I'm like, that I struggle with. But you have been able to do that really, really well and consistently. And so that's been really cool to be encouraged by those.
Speaker 4:I appreciate that. Yeah. I think that's something I'm passionate about in the sense that kinda what you're talking about falls into the realm of of systematic theology and understanding theology and the Bible in a systematic way that helps you make sense of, like you were talking about, old old testament stories that you can kinda get lost in the weeds. And because there's so much history, there's so much to read and understand, and
Speaker 3:it's So many genealogies. Right.
Speaker 4:So many genealogies, so many old people, and all, you know, talking about things in a way that we wouldn't talk about them today. Right. And so, yeah, a huge passion of mine is definitely the way the way that Old Testament stories and and New Testament as well fit into this systematic understanding of who God is and what he's doing in the world. Hermann Bawink, which is a theologian from a couple 100 years ago, maybe just a 100 years ago. Can't exactly remember.
Speaker 4:Anyway, reading one of his books called The Wonderful Works of God, and he talks about that our understanding of who God is is is nestled in between the meeting place of his nature and what he does. And so a lot of times, people people love the Lord for what he's done, which is not necessarily wrong. He's he's obviously done
Speaker 3:Amazing things. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. He's he's given us his son. He he blesses us every day. He holds the universe together by the by the word of his power, and and yet what Bavinck says later in that chapter is that the the the goal is to go from I love the lord because of what you've done what you've done to I love the Lord because he is the Lord. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Loving him for what he what he is and who he is. And so, like you were saying in staff prayer, there are a lot of times where, because of the way my mind works, I enjoy looking at the way a verse fits into the grand scheme, like the stuff that is hard to think about. The way that all of that fits together is a huge part of where my mind goes with a lot of different verses, which I think is why why I love Romans, particularly Romans 8, and why I love Ephesians 1. And there are a lot of these different chapters that paint God's purpose for humanity in a light that is so big that I struggle to to fathom exactly what's going on, and yet it it draws me in to to do my best. Right.
Speaker 4:And so I I think the Lord has has given me a the a kind of obsessive personality in the sense that once I'm hooked on something, it's really hard for me to to get away from it. And and that thing for the last 3 years since that that revival of my faith in my life has been the sovereignty of God and and and what he's doing in the world. And so that I think that plays into kind of why my mind immediately goes to, you know, I read this this morning. It's a Wednesday. We have meeting.
Speaker 4:How does this apply to this thing we're talking about? And inevitably, because the whole Bible is meant for our instruction and our reproof and our rebuking and shaping us into who we're supposed to be, inevitably, we're talking about the boys in some way. Right. And and so the like, everything in the Bible in some way is applicable to what it means to grow up to be a a godly man. Right.
Speaker 4:Because, you know, we are we're told to heed heed the words of the Lord. We're told that
Speaker 3:To seek wisdom. Exactly. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Fear of God is the beginning of wisdom. So what it means to be a godly man and to grow up into a godly man, because we're talking about the boys so often, and and my first place to look for any kind of wisdom is the Bible. It usually ends up working well together.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:It fits somehow. It's almost like God has a plan for that,
Speaker 3:right? It's almost like
Speaker 4:all of our days are planned out and he's known them before all of eternity or something something to that effect.
Speaker 3:God's all knowing to do. Right? Yeah. Yeah. So it's been it's it's awesome to
Speaker 4:get to share with y'all, and it's it's really encouraging to me to hear that God has used that, and that's been impactful for you and impactful for anyone else that hears. I think that with God calling me to be a pastor and one of the main reasons is that there have been preachers who have greatly impacted my life, to hear that anything I'm saying about the Bible is helpful to anyone else is a blessing and an encouragement to hear.
Speaker 3:So I appreciate it. Yeah. Not a problem. I have, man, I have diverging paths I wanna go down, and I hate it when that happens. Yeah.
Speaker 3:The first one I wanted to say was well, it was actually just a question because I kinda forgot what the other one was at the moment. But we'll get there. The the first one is a question. It's like, you you were talking about, like, looking or systematic theology, right, and looking at kind of the Bible holistically and the story it tells Right. Across the Bible.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:And so I guess I'm curious there is, like, when you when you do your quiet times, when you are in the word, when you're meditating on it Mhmm. That kind of thing, like, what is your process there? Is it Yeah. Do you have, like, just a, oh, I sense the Lord is calling me to go read this thing right now and meditate on that? Or is it, like, you have kind of a plan of, like, reading the Bible chronologically?
Speaker 3:Or, like, what is the what is the meta kinda schedule that you operate out of? Yeah.
Speaker 4:I always try and have a plan because I I think that I think sometimes in in American Christianity, we can kind of we can associate the holy spirit moving with a kind of spontaneous thing, which he does. Yeah. But I think I mean, the holy spirit also moves in the planning of things to go about a certain way because he dwells inside of us, and he is impacting how we how we live and how we do anything. And as we grow in holiness because of his working in our heart, there's just as much Holy Spirit working and coming up with a plan for what what you're gonna read or what you're gonna do, just as much as there's a there's the holy spirit moving in a spontaneous way in this specific time.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And so I'm open to the to the spontaneous, like, oh, I need to read this right now. But most of the time, I have a plan beforehand, and I you know, sometimes that is like, right now, I am reading the Bible chronologically. Mhmm. But in the middle of that, I say I'm reading the Bible right now chronologically. But I've taken a break from reading the Bible chronologically to read through John for no other reason other than I'm, like I said, in being interested in the sovereignty of God.
Speaker 4:One of those aspects is the sovereignty of God in salvation and how we're saved. And John, specifically John 3 and John 6, talk a lot about what it means that the Lord knows his sheep and the sheep know his voice. And I I call whom the father has given to me, and I will not lose one. And and so there's a lot wrapped up in that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so I stopped to read John and and read it much slower than I probably normally would. And so I've been listening to a lot of podcasts here recently and and and reading some different articles on a practice of of meditatively reading the Bible
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Which was done a whole lot more in the last 2000 years of of Christian church history, at least than I have done it in my life. Right. And so and so I stopped, and I I probably read a chapter right now of John a day, and it's reading the different, you know, blocks of text Mhmm. 3, 4, 5 times, seeing what sticks out, why does that stick out, praying through that. And then my my kind of overarching practice is read the bible and pray back to God what you read in the bible.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And so it's you know, if if it's man, god is so big based on what this is, then it's it's a it's a prayer of praise. Thank you for for this. Thank you for this. God, you are this.
Speaker 4:You are glorious. You're magnificent. You are thank Thank you for saving me. All these kinds of things. And if it's convicting, it's a it's a prayer of, you know, change change my heart, God.
Speaker 4:Work work my heart that I might not lose sight of this or convict me, Lord, that that I'd grow holier. Yeah. And that kind of, again, ties back in into in the systematic way of of thinking about theology and how that intersects with the church. I I think, again, the church in in the west in America talks a lot about justification and being justified. Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Rightly so. And sometimes we don't talk enough about sanctification and being made holy and poured. Yeah. And so I want to live a holy life because Christ bought my holy life on the cross. Right.
Speaker 4:And Ephesians 2:10 says that all your good works have been laid up for you in heaven to walk in. So every good thing that you do on the earth, everything that you do that glorifies God on the earth has already been set up for you in heaven to walk in, and the holy spirit indwells you that you can walk in it.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And so when I when I read verses like that, and I read verses like 1st Corinthians 6:20 where it says bought with a price, so live live like you've been bought by the blood of the cross. It's like
Speaker 3:How can you not?
Speaker 4:Yeah. My life is not my own. My actions are not my own. Yeah. I am here to glorify God with my body on the earth to the best of my ability, and and the holy spirit will work in my heart to help me do that.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so that's why I I kind of do my quiet times that way is because I or at least I'm taking a break from the The chronological. 3, 4, or 5 chapters chronologically is because I felt like I had gotten in a habit of reading and not taking the time to think about it, which is easier to do in the Old Testament because it's just historical. A lot of stories. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4:But there's a lot of beauty in those stories if you'll slow down. And so that's kind of what what I'm doing now at this point.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I mean, I've I've had similar experiences here recently, at least in recording these these episodes. I mean, we've talked about I think we've talked more about the Old Testament in these episodes of the series than in the New Testament, which, you know, when I when I read the Bible, like, I would much rather read the New Testament because I feel like it's more applicable. Right? It's easier to grasp.
Speaker 3:Yeah. It's easier to grasp. It's the very instructive, like, this is how you should be living your life, whereas you're right. The the Old Testament is so much more historical. Right.
Speaker 3:But in these conversations, I found that we've been drawing parallels to those Old Testament stories. I know mhmm. It's a little sneak preview because this episode hasn't gone out yet, but JT and I talked a lot about Abraham, right, and how we saw, like, Abraham moments in our life. Right. Lives plural.
Speaker 3:You know, things like that or the Israelites or, like, Moses leading or whatever. Like, that has come out a lot more than the kind of the New Testament side of the Bible in these conversations. And what's interesting to me is that in the last 5 minutes of you talking, you you have quoted basically exclusively the New Testament. Right? John and Ephesians and 1st Corinthians.
Speaker 3:And within that, my like, I just loved kind of the the thing you said about Ephesians 2:10. Right. Because to me, like, Ephesians 8 through 10 is, like, the biggest paradox to me ever. You talking about Romans? No.
Speaker 3:Ephesians 28 through 10. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Sorry. Sorry. Sorry.
Speaker 3:Sorry. Ephesians 28 through 10. No. The verses. Sorry.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Ephesians 28 through 10 to me is like the biggest paradox ever because Ephesians 28 through 9 says, for it is by grace you've been saved through faith. And this is not of your works. It is the free gift of God or for it is by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not of your own doing.
Speaker 3:It is the free gift of God. Not by works so that no man can boast. Right? Ephesians 9 is not by works so that no man can boast. And then 29 and then chapter 2 verse 10,
Speaker 4:what
Speaker 3:it really turns around and says, you have been created to do good works. Right? So you're like, wait, how do these two ideas marry? And it's, I mean, full disclosure, it's Ephesians 2:8 through 9 is my favorite Bible verse
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Or ever out of the entire Bible. I have a lot of really, like, ones that are high on that list, but Ephesians 2:8 through 9, I've had memories since I was 6. Yeah. And to this day, I still at the top of that list. Right.
Speaker 3:But, like, it's that idea of just you're right. Like, these 2 seem totally in contrast to each other, paradoxical, but they're not. Right. What it's saying is we don't earn our salvation Right. By our works.
Speaker 3:Right. But it's because of our salvation that we do the good works.
Speaker 4:A 100%.
Speaker 3:Right? It's the idea of, like, we don't earn our way to heaven. We do these things out of obedience. Right. Right?
Speaker 3:A 100%. Because we want to be Christ followers. We want to model Jesus' life as best we can. And, of course, we're all gonna make mistakes. We're all sinners, and we can we're not perfect.
Speaker 3:But that's where the process of sanctification comes in is. Right? It's the, you know, being convicted by the Holy Spirit of, like, the sin or whatever and then getting into that and, like, bringing that to God and confessing that and asking for forgiveness and and receiving that forgiveness, knowing full well that he already knew about the sin before you were even thought of by your parents. Right? That, he knew everything you were going to do, both good and bad, and he's already forgiven the bad and set you up to achieve the good.
Speaker 3:Right?
Speaker 4:And that's the yeah. I've been thinking about this subject a whole lot here lately because of the way that Ephesians 210, 1st Corinthians 620, and then 1st Corinthians 1031 correlate, which is 10:30 1 is whether you eat or drink, whatever you do, glorify God in your body. And so what that verse 1031 is breaking down is whether you eat or drink, meaning the smallest things that you do in a day, either if he's commanding you to whether you eat or drink, whatever you do, and the smallest things that you do, glorify God, then there's a way to eat and drink that do not glorify God. Yeah. With the point of the verse being, every moment of our lives either glorifies God or it does not.
Speaker 4:And that can sound daunting because it's like, man, I gotta watch out for everything in my life. Am I am I glorifying God? Am I not? But like you said, the beauty of of the sanctifying work of the Holy Spirit is that he's there to help you do that. Right?
Speaker 4:That's Philippians 2, work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is the Lord who is willing or working in you to will and to work for his good pleasure. And so it's this idea that every moment in your life either glorifies God or it does not, but the Holy Spirit is working in your heart to live in such a way that it glorifies God. Yeah. And yet you can also be just as upfront and honest with yourself and say, hey. Is this is this glorifying God?
Speaker 4:And so I mean I mean, full transparency with me, the way that that is convicting me lately is that is is my my family has a a long history of of being overweight and having heart problems and obesity and that kind of thing. And so what I've been trying to figure out is is what do what do I have to understand in my life to to eat better and live better? And so my my going to the gym got consistent because it was necessary to do that, to wake up enough to read the Bible in the morning. Mhmm. So as I started to love the Lord more, I realized I can't I can't get up and then just immediately read the Bible.
Speaker 4:My mind is not It's not You're like, I'm not functioning yet. Yeah. No. Especially, I try to get up pretty early so that no one's awake, so I'm everything's quiet and because I'm too my mind goes a 1,000 different places. But I realized that, okay, I need to do something in the mornings.
Speaker 4:I need to work out. I'll do that. So that got consistent because it was connected to the Bible, reading
Speaker 3:the Bible. Interesting.
Speaker 4:And so what I've been trying to rack my brain to figure out and read scripture trying to figure out is what can I connect to eating habits that is going to make it so that I have better eating habits?
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:Because I don't wanna you know, my grandfather died when he was 50 of a heart attack, and I don't wanna do that. I don't you know, I I wanna be around a long time, a long time for my wife and my future kids and Yeah. To live on mission to spread the gospel. And that does not include, Lord willing, he might take me earlier, and that's okay. It doesn't include me dying at 50.
Speaker 4:And so the way that I've been thinking about through all this is kind of what we've been talking about, which is whatever I eat, it either glorifies God or it does not. And it doesn't have to be a debilitating thing because the Holy Spirit you know, works to make those easier to do and to make them more clear, I guess.
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Because food, neither good nor bad. Just It's a necessity. Right. Right. And so it's been how how does how does all of this truth, how does all this theology, how does it why does it matter that god has laid up all our good works in heaven before the foundation of the earth was set?
Speaker 4:Well, it matters because we're called to live holy and and we wanna live holy. And so in all of this talk of systematic theology and drawing parallels and the importance of the Old Testament and the New Testament, it brings me back to how do I glorify God with my body as best that I can in the will that I have.
Speaker 3:Especially since, you know, it does say that your body is a temple.
Speaker 4:Right. 100%. But it's things like where, like, it's things like that where I read it, and I'm like, that's awesome. And I don't really I don't know why it doesn't it never clicked. Like, I I know the verse.
Speaker 4:I was told the verse over and over, and it's like, I don't really I don't quite get what exactly you mean by that or what that means or how that works
Speaker 3:or what's
Speaker 4:the importance of that. Yeah. But that doesn't it doesn't it doesn't affect what you do unless it's tied to something that you love. You know? It's it's it would be weird.
Speaker 4:You know, someone would probably tell me I have a poor marriage if I talk to my wife every other day for 35 minutes. I don't I don't think it would be I don't think it would be very healthy.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:And yet, we have this, you know, because we focus so much on justification and and it's your relationship with God isn't works based, and all of that is true. I I never wanna say that's not true. But we act like or we wonder why we have this disconnection with the Lord, and we feel unhappy, and we feel depressed. And as a as a society, we feel as anxious as we do. Right.
Speaker 4:And we look at Christians, and they don't feel any better.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:Christians, quote unquote, you know, the whole scheme
Speaker 3:of the church in America. The big C church.
Speaker 4:Right, right. And then people are only reading their Bibles, praying, talking with the Lord 30 minutes every other day. Yeah. And that's not me saying that I'm any better, or this person that reads the Bible 3 hours every single day is
Speaker 3:is Is better or not.
Speaker 4:Earlier than Yeah. That's not the point. The point is more the truth of the matter is if you love if you you talk to your wife because you love your wife.
Speaker 3:Right. And And you genuinely want to be around her. Exactly. Exactly. And if if we are the bride of Christ
Speaker 4:and the Lord has, in his providence, given us the scriptures and given us prayer and revealed himself to us Mhmm. But we don't talk to him, we don't pray, we don't read the scriptures, we don't we don't care enough to do that, then that I mean, that's the answer to the
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Why why is everyone anxious?
Speaker 3:Yeah. And and I've had that thought too as you were talking is it's like because, I mean, one, it's no secret. Like, you look at American society, and we are incredibly anxious. We're incredibly depressed. There's a whole ton of mental illness Right.
Speaker 3:Coming out right now. And, like, all of that and all of that stems, one, from not spending time with God. Right. And that's kind of the main point I'll get to here in a second.
Speaker 4:Yeah. But it's
Speaker 3:also because we are incredibly busy. Right. Right? Like, you're quoting the statistic, like, the average American Christian whatever is spending 30 minutes a day every other day. Right.
Speaker 3:Right?
Speaker 4:I don't I don't think that's the average. I'm just I forgot a number. I thought
Speaker 3:I meant it's less than that. I would love that. True. But even within that, it's like even if, like, that was the role model was 30 minutes a day every other day. Like, you're right.
Speaker 3:1, nobody would call your marriage healthy if that was Right. If that was the case. But within that, it's like because we're not making time. A 100%. Right?
Speaker 3:One of my favorite books that I've ever read that is nonfiction because let's be real, I don't like nonfiction books. But this one, like, I actually made a point to read this book Yeah. Like, consistently from cover to cover to make sure I got through it, which I have a TBR list of books that's a mile high. Right? And then and I've started, like, 7 of them.
Speaker 3:Right? But this one was called The Ruthless Elimination of Hurry by John Mark Comer. Right. And within that he and Jeff Jefferson Bethke have their own little podcast of 6 or 7 episodes about the ideas of this and Jeff's similar book. And within, like, within this book, like, the whole point of it is we burn out because we don't know how to stop.
Speaker 3:Right? We don't know how to be comfortable in the silence, in the solitude, in a Sabbath. Right? Like, how many Americans actually Sabbath? Right.
Speaker 3:Right? And I'm talking about, like, not just going to church on a Sunday. I mean, legitimately, like, a 24 hour period every single week where you do nothing. Right? No chores, no job, no whatever.
Speaker 3:Like, nothing productive. Right? But that's one of the commandments. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:It's one of the 10 commandments is to remember the Sabbath by keeping it holy. Right? Holy means set apart. Right. So my thought there is just like, what what would our society look like
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:If we as a society practiced a Sabbath, right, instead of this whole, like, ruthless pursuit of money or greed or whatever your selfish ambition is.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:But what if we, as a society, actually, like, intentionally stopped for 24 hours every week? And maybe you know, and that doesn't necessarily have to be everybody stops on Sunday and there's no businesses open or whatever. Because, I mean, I've had this experience in the sense that, like, I work at my church. Right? Right.
Speaker 3:Sunday is not a Sabbath for me. Right. I work Right. On a on a Sunday. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Most people Sabbath on Sunday and go to church, and that's part of their their Sabbath rhythm, and that's great.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:For somebody who works in the church Yeah. That doesn't really work. Right? So I have to find a different way to Sabbath. And the pastors in my church are the same way.
Speaker 3:We don't Sabbath on Sunday. Right. Most of my pastors actually Sabbath on Friday. Right? Friday to Friday to Saturday, somewhere in there.
Speaker 3:And for me, my rhythm has in this past school year, just because of the way my schedule laid out, was my Sabbath started at 2 PM on Sunday after church got out.
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:And that was the consistent 24 hour block of 2 PM Sunday to 2 PM Monday when I went to work on at 4 Runner. Right. Which sounds weird in the sense of, like, well, it's you're still working on both of those days. Right. But, again, you gotta remember, like, my jobs are part time jobs.
Speaker 3:And so I do have that 24 hour rhythm. And what I would do is I would there's a local church in Dallas called Upper Room. I would go to their prayer set at noon on Monday
Speaker 4:Mhmm.
Speaker 3:As my, quote unquote, church service. Right? As I would go to that prayer set, it's 2 hours, and I would go and I would get to worship and pray and commune with God in addition to, of course, those daily rhythms. Right? That, of course, I'm not perfect at.
Speaker 3:And, actually, full disclosure, the last few months have been a little bit drier in that. But that's what discipleship is for. And that's why I meet with my pastor one of my pastors every other week on Monday to for discipleship. And we get lunch and we talk through, like, what's going on in my life and why Which is important. Yeah.
Speaker 3:Discipleship is hugely important. And one would argue that mentor mentoring is really just a form of discipleship. A 100. Yeah. Right?
Speaker 3:Agreed. So it's just a little more structured.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:But yeah. Look like that's my thought is it's just like what would happen if our if American society and really the world society, you know, on a global scale Right. Like, what would our lives look like if we actually practiced a a Sabbath? Right. And then within that is the other part of that thought of this whole fear and anxiety and depression and mental illness and all that.
Speaker 3:Right. You had said something along the lines of it wouldn't necessarily exist if, like, if you were commune if you had a healthy relationship with the father. Right? And my thought process there is, well, yeah, because of the fruits of the spirit. Yeah.
Speaker 3:For sure. Right? Like For sure. I mean, the first three fruits of the spirit listed are love, joy, and peace.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:Right. Right?
Speaker 4:No. Yeah. I yeah. I couldn't agree more.
Speaker 3:Yeah. You know, which are the exact opposites of what we're seeing right now of hatred hatred, depression, and anxiety. Yeah. Right? Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So if the first three fruits of the spirit are love, joy, and peace, how do you get the fruits of the spirit? Well, you get the fruits of the spirit by spending time in the spirit. Right. So I think that just emphasizes, at least to me, like, the importance of a daily healthy relationship with God.
Speaker 3:Right?
Speaker 4:Yeah. And that's yeah. I think that that's the that's the key thing. That's the and kind of tying it back to to 4 Runner and the boys, the the thing that I hope after all is said and done and they go off into high school and and college and live their lives and do their thing, what I hope is pressed upon them is that spending time with the Lord is important. Yeah.
Speaker 4:He's worth thinking about. And even if you have questions and you don't have answers and you need help getting answers to these big, really difficult questions that come with faith and and believing in the Lord and trusting in him
Speaker 3:Which there's nothing wrong with, by the way. No. No. You should absolutely be asking questions.
Speaker 4:People have the answers. That's another encouragement. These the big questions that everyone brings up when bringing about, like, you know, what why do why does this why do bad things happen to good people? What why you know, how does all of that these big problem of evil questions. Yeah.
Speaker 4:People have very good answers and have had very good answers to these questions for 1000 of years. But with the boys, it's like and connected to anxiety and depression and all that mental health, these mental health ideas, because I don't think they're going away anytime soon, unfortunately. Yeah. Is that as they grow up, that the way to seek refuge for those things is in the Lord. And a big reason that we have so many issues with all of those things in America and in the world in general is because no one's turning, or most people are not turning to the Lord to answer these answer these problems.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:You know, it's what can I take? What medication can I take? What can I look at? And I'm, again, not hating on medication at all. Anything like I have friends, family members very close to me who genuinely need those things
Speaker 3:Correct.
Speaker 4:Because of hormone deficiencies and and different things like that. And so that's that's not what I'm talking about.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:What I am talking about is Like the quick fix. Right. The quick fix, I don't you know, most people are probably not actually dealing with anxiety in a that that need a kind of medical healing from anxiety.
Speaker 3:They're not dealing with a hormone deficiency. They're dealing with a Jesus deficiency.
Speaker 4:No. Exactly. Because I I don't, you know I think most people don't know that there's another way to get to feel peace and that there's another way to to feel joy, and that those things don't come from being self sufficient. Correct. There's an amount of, you know loving the Lord and and giving him your life requires you to let go of an amount of autonomy in your life.
Speaker 4:Yeah. And so I I want the boys, as they grow up, to to hopefully hear from all of the coaches at some point that when things are going badly or you feel badly or friends feel badly, family, you know, these things are going poorly, you're asking difficult questions like why, you know, why would my why would god let my father leave, or why would why would god let these things happen? Yeah. That the answer is not to run away from those questions, and the answer is not to throw away God and your relationship with him because you have hard questions, but to diligently seek those answers, know that they're there, and then trust the Lord to present those answers to you and help you through that.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I would even say to bring those questions to the Lord. Right? I don't think God ever would get sad or hurt or angry or whatever by you asking a question.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:No. Right? You know, I think there's been I mean, I think I know there's been a lot of times in my life where I've gone, God, like, this is happening, and I don't understand. Right. I don't know what your plan is.
Speaker 3:I don't understand. I mean, I'm still gonna trust you because I know that just in in the things that I've I've witnessed in a part of my testimony, like, that have worked out, you know, I trust you, but I don't understand. Right. Right? And those have been some of the sweetest moments where he's like, he's really met me there Right.
Speaker 3:And been like, you know, it's okay that you don't understand. Right. Exactly. This is your next step.
Speaker 4:Right. A 100%. Yeah. Habakkuk 3, there's a story like the whole three chapters of Habakkuk are effectively There's all of these terrible things happening to Israel, and an unrighteous pagan nation is trampling over Israel. And Habakkuk is saying, Why are you letting them, those unholy pagan people Right.
Speaker 4:Destroy us? Why are you letting them destroy us when we are your people?
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:And God gives many different answers, or not many different answers, but the answer of, I'm gonna deal with them. So I I will be just. They will they will reap their benefit, or they will reap their their judgment. Right. But I'm judging you right now through them.
Speaker 4:But there's a beautiful part at the end, Habakkuk 3 17 and 18, where it says something to the effect of there are no animals in the stable. There are no fruit on the trees. But I will trust in the Lord. With that whole thing being What he's effectively saying is, it looks like I'm gonna die. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Because if you don't have any animals in the stables, you don't have any any meat to eat. If there are no fruit on the trees, you don't have any fruit or vegetables to eat.
Speaker 3:There is no food.
Speaker 4:Right. There's no food. It sure looks like I'm gonna die. Yeah. But I will trust in the Lord.
Speaker 4:And that's, you know, that's the, again, the beauty of the old testament is that those stories abound over and over and over again, where it's so much of the old testament. And the way that I kind of see it is it shows the nature of the Lord in a way that the new testament definitely does that as well in a different way. But there's so much, so many stories of God saying, I am going to take care of you. Trust me to take care of you. Yeah.
Speaker 4:And abide by my words. And so it's just like we've been talking about, I think so many of so many of the difficulties that we face today would be fixed if if we Trust. Better understanding of the Lord and trusted that that his promises are good. He's gonna he's gonna make good on his promises.
Speaker 3:Yeah. And I think one of the cool things is that we're in the unique position to be able to model that for our boys. Yeah. Right? And, of course, there are some, like, fuzzy lines in that in terms of, like, how personal do you get with your mentee in an after school mentoring program.
Speaker 3:Right. But, you know, it's it's like some of the some of the coolest conversations that I've had were the ones where I was, like, super candid with with the kids. Right? And, like, that sparked questions from them about things that they didn't understand or things that they're experiencing that they're like, oh, wait. Coach Josh actually knows Right.
Speaker 3:What we're what I'm going through. Like, I can talk to him about this kind of thing. Right? And going that goes kinda back to we haven't talked about it on this podcast, but I have in other episodes. The idea of, like, seeing that seeing myself in them and then asking myself in those moments, like, what do I wish I had at that time?
Speaker 3:And then being able to meet that. Right? It's it's that kinda thing. And then getting to do that. Right?
Speaker 3:We get to model what living for Christ looks like. We get to model what being a man of God looks like. We get to model all of these different things that we're trying to help them fulfill their potential. Right. Right?
Speaker 3:And we do that by setting the example and being that consistent presence in their life that they don't have. Right? And I think that in order to do that effectively, you need to be I'm gonna use this word. I don't like the way it sounds, but strong in your faith. Right?
Speaker 3:Consistent in in your spiritual disciplines and, you know, not just talking to God for 30 minutes every other day, but that it becomes an active daily part of your life. And the other thing that I've noticed with that is let me ask you this. The more time you spend with Cheyenne, do you love her more or less?
Speaker 4:Yeah. More.
Speaker 3:Obviously. Right? The more you spend with the more time you spend with her, the more you love her. Right. And the less time you spend with her, probably you start to like that, that relationship starts to deteriorate.
Speaker 3:Yeah. I would argue that it's the same thing with God. It's the more time you spend with him, the more it no longer feels like a chore. Right? This thing of like, oh, I need to do this because I know I need to do this.
Speaker 3:But it becomes less of that mindset and more of a desire. Right? You know, more of a like, I genuinely love the Lord. I genuinely want to be in his presence. I genuinely want to do these things.
Speaker 3:I know I had, not this past school year, but our 1st year, I had a conversation with a kid at the very end of program one day. Like, he's like, what are you doing tonight? I'm like, I'm going to church. I think our I think our church was doing it was either LifeGroup, which for me is a small community group within our church on Wednesday, or it may have been Jesus Hour, which I forget which. But Jesus Hour at a church at the time, they don't do it anymore, was an hour the 1st Thursday of every month where it was just worship and prayer.
Speaker 3:Right? You'd come in. The church was open. The band was up playing. And it was kind of it was planned in the sense of, like, this is the order of what we're doing, and we're gonna pray into these key prayer points.
Speaker 3:But it was an hour specifically of just coming and slowing down and being with the Lord. And so I told this kid, I was like, I'm going to church. And he's was very confused. He was like, I thought church was on Sundays. Or for us, I thought church was on Friday because we do church at Forerunner.
Speaker 3:Right? And I was like, I would be at church every single day if I could. Right? I was like, if if I could work out my schedule where I didn't actually have to work for a living and make money to pay for my life, which, again, like, I'm not a lover of money. I have 2 part time jobs.
Speaker 3:Right? I don't. I'm never going to get rich doing this. And I'm okay with that. Right?
Speaker 3:I was like, if I could work out my schedule where I could go spend an hour or 2 every single day at a church with God, I would. Yeah. Right? And I can only imagine, like, the impact that had on him. You know, I'm still waiting to see the fruit of that, but I'm I'm still praying consistently for him and just praying that he has the same radical encounter with the Lord and has just a a deep innate sense of who God is.
Speaker 3:Right. Right? So that he gets to the point where he no longer says he's a Christian and is still trying to figure out what that means
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:But, like, knows what Christianity is actually about Right. And is actively desiring to spend time with the Lord as opposed to it feeling like a chore that coach Josh is making him do for 10 minutes
Speaker 4:in
Speaker 3:the middle of program. Like, we're talking about 10 minutes. Right? We're not even at 30 minutes every other day. We're at 10 minutes a day.
Speaker 3:Yeah. So
Speaker 4:Yeah. No. I'm with you. I think it I was reading a study or statistic the other day that was from a a study in the early 2000. And one of the one of the statistics was that nearly 70% of kids whose fathers are whose fathers are strongly involved in the church will continue in the faith of their father.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Which tells me 2 things, which is one of those is that kids really want to be like their dads, which I think is plain for most people to see.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:But the thing that I didn't recognize, the idea that the father really is he's leading the way for his family. And so at 4 Runner with us trying to in some way, play a part of a father in a very limited capacity, but in a capacity nonetheless, is, hey, walk how I walk. Do what I do. Here's why I do that. Here's why you should do it.
Speaker 4:And so I think that so much of my time with the boys is doing my best to think about, okay, what does this action portray to this boy? Yeah. You know, I only have this limited amount of time. How can I be of the most function in 3 hours to this boy that I see Monday through Friday throughout the school year? And it's difficult in the sense that, you know, I think most of their day they're in school.
Speaker 4:Right? And with my wife being a teacher, I get some some stories, some stories about some kids.
Speaker 3:And I'm sure we have stories about kids.
Speaker 4:Right. But she kind of lets me on or lets me on to what are the popular things.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. So she's the one that keeps you here. Okay.
Speaker 4:I am not I am not on social media much, and so I am very I I don't know what's really going on in pop culture,
Speaker 3:quote, unquote.
Speaker 4:But but she lets me know what the kids are kind of up to, and that helps me. It also helps me at 4 Runner because there's like, I have a better understanding or grip of what kids are talking about. But kids are just inundated with the worst things all day long, every day. Like, I don't these kids
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4:Have smartphones, and they can get on TikTok, and they can see the worst things that they have ever seen on TikTok. And then and then they come to forerunner, and they talk about those things. And then it's like, man, I gotta try and figure out how How to respond. Right. How do I respond to this thing that I barely understand what they're talking about?
Speaker 4:And then number 2, it sure seems like it's, you know, sinful in nature. And so so much of our job is or so much especially this last year, I had probably 5 or 6 different conversations about TikTok and about pornography and about
Speaker 3:Oh, wow. Like just With 4th 5th graders.
Speaker 4:Right. Right. Yeah. Because they're a like, effect they're they're seeing it on their phones.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so I think that I'm I'm trying to have more more upfront. You know, you kinda said, how how close do you get to the boundary Yeah. Of It's hard. Of talking too much or saying too much or getting too wrapped up in a in a relationship with a boy that you like, he's not getting this anywhere else, so
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 4:I need to say it. And that line becomes hard when you it became hard for me this last year as I watched the boys and realized, like, realized they are inundated with with things that are going to destroy them, and they don't know because they're in 4th 5th grade.
Speaker 3:Right. They don't have the wisdom yet.
Speaker 4:And and they can see it all day every day for most of the day, except when they're at 4 Runner. But what are you supposed to do? And a lot of that has looked like, man, I just gotta have more straightforward conversations because
Speaker 3:Yeah, stop dancing around it.
Speaker 4:There's no way to just talk about, oh, lust, and we treat women well, which is true. You know, battle lust, treat women well. If you have a high view of women, you're gonna have a better time battling lust. But the the kind of dancing around that that, you know
Speaker 3:Yeah. We keep it metaphorical.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:Right? We keep it in this super 30,000 foot Right. High level, like Right. We're throwing around these words of lust and and love and the difference and having you know, honoring women with our words and actions and things like that. But we don't, like, bring that down to their level
Speaker 4:of this is This is what we're talking about.
Speaker 3:This is what we're talking about. This is the this is the application of our Right. Words. Right? And I know, like, in the junior high, we've like, that's been a focus of mine over the last few years.
Speaker 3:Since I got hired, I like, one of the focuses for me has been bringing in conversations around sex and love and lust and porn and all of that into the junior high.
Speaker 4:Right.
Speaker 3:Right? And so, like, that's, like, that's been part of my story. And so in my mind, I was like, they're they're hitting they're at the the age in which that became a thing in my life. Right? And I have been able in in recent years to kinda trace that back to, like, okay.
Speaker 3:This is why this happened, and this is how this happened. So now how do I, like one of those things was that I had nobody to actually have a conversation with me about it. Right? And so now I'm like, how do I be that person? Right?
Speaker 3:But also, how do I be that person without crossing that boundary of getting too personal in my or about my own Right. Life and testimony and and walk and that kind of thing, but still having that point blank conversation with them of, like, this is what I'm talking about. Right. And this year, it even got more into that or it it went farther into that in the sense of Steven asked at one point at the beginning of the spring semester, our executive director like, I was up in the office with the full time staff just kinda hanging out or whatever. And I was telling him about some of the plans for program.
Speaker 3:I think this was, like, the end of January that this happened.
Speaker 4:Gotcha.
Speaker 3:And he's like, I'm just gonna be brusque. When are we gonna talk with the boys about sex? And I was like, funny you should ask that because it's in our it's in our schedule for Valentine's Day.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Oh, nice. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 4:I think, unfortunately, that keeps the age that they get inundated with that stuff, it gets pushed back more and more. And like you were saying or when you sound when you sounded surprised of, like, oh, the boys in 4th or 5th grade are are needing to be talked to about this, it's like Yeah. Unfortunately, yes. And and that's why, you know, in this conversation of where's the line and how far do you how how directly do you put all this stuff, unfortunately, the church has been pretty, like, behind
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:Mainstream culture, like, at least a year. I think it's probably more.
Speaker 3:Oh, yeah.
Speaker 4:For sure.
Speaker 3:Where, like,
Speaker 4:culture gets more and more in your face, and the church is is is slowly trailing. And so we're at this place where the culture's so incredibly in your face about Everything. Sex and perversion and sin and all of this stuff is they're so incredibly direct at this point. And the church is still trying to do the thing with children's ministry where where it's like, hey, let's dance around this stuff, and let's kind of you know, we want us we want them to get it without us having to talk about it. And it's I think we're just getting to a point where it's like, we need to be very direct and very honest because we Because the culture is doing that.
Speaker 4:There's nothing else to do. Right. We have to. For 20 years, the American church has been in this programmatic thing where kids are split off from their parents Mhmm. And their family, and they have their own ministry and their own stuff, and it's led by these people, and they do these things.
Speaker 4:And what it does is the kids are the kids aren't getting the same teaching as their parents, and the parents don't know how to discuss things with their kids. And so there's a disconnect.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And the parents don't know, or they're hoping that their kid isn't looking at the stuff that they're looking at on their phone. So they're not having those conversations.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 4:And so it just I think we're getting to a point where it's like, if we want to combat the inundation of of sin that the boys are pressed with at school, then we need a more direct plan.
Speaker 3:Right. We just need a point blanket and be like, look, this is what we're talking about.
Speaker 4:Yeah. This is how they're talking about. This is how they're talking about. If you get addicted to pornography, it's going to affect every aspect of your life until you get through that. And a lot of men never get through that.
Speaker 4:And they're 50 something year old men looking at pornography while they're married and feeling terrible about it.
Speaker 3:And Yeah. Like, the the statistic that I've heard over the last few years is that it's something like somewhere between 60 75 percent of men in the church struggle with unwanted sexual behavior. And that could be porn. That could be masturbation. That could be strip clubs, prostitutes, whatever.
Speaker 3:It's unwanted sexual behavior. But Yeah. One, that factors in all of the demographics, the age range of 18 to Right. Of 18 to 89000 years old. Right?
Speaker 3:But the other statistic is that it's not just a men's problem anymore. Right? It's not just men that are addicted to sex. It is the the other statistic, I think it's about 33 somewhere between 33 45% of women are also struggling with unwanted sexual behavior. Yeah.
Speaker 3:And when you throw in the idea of love addiction, right, not necessarily sex but being addicted to love, that number goes much higher for women. Right? So it's no longer I think churches get into this disservice for their congregations of, 1, not having these conversations. Right? Not having some kind of ministry to deal with it.
Speaker 3:Mhmm. But, 2, like, making it just even if they do have a ministry, having it focused solely on men, I think, is not resolving the the problem. Right? Because it's no longer just a male problem. It it is across the genders.
Speaker 3:It's across age groups. It's it's across things. It is one of hell's number one tactics for destroying the church.
Speaker 4:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Right? And so within that, I think you're right. Like, 1, we're doing a disservice to our church by not having ministries for both men and women, by focusing solely on the men. But, 2, I think because hell is being so direct about this, we actually need to be equally as direct. Right?
Speaker 3:So both within the church and and having programs and having conversations and Right. And training parents to porn to the kids. But then that cannot go through auxiliary services like 4 Runner Mentoring, where our our goal is to, like, fill or to essentially fill in the role of a parent Right. Without being a parent. Let's be let's be clear.
Speaker 3:Mentors are not parents. Right. And fill in that role and still be willing to have those conversations. And so I think there needs to be equipping both within the church, but also within the auxiliary organizations that are still interacting with kids Right. Where they conversations around God's vision for sex and things like that have need to happen.
Speaker 3:And so that's been a been kind of a focus of mine for the last couple of years since getting hired at 4 Runner. And this year, it culminated where we, like, we talked with or we brought in a guest speaker Yeah. Who leads recovery groups at a local church. And he had a con a very point blank conversation with our junior high students about sex and lust and pornography and masturbation and all of those things. And part of that was me having to write a letter to all of the parents of our kids because it felt like, I was the one who had been pushing for this, so it kinda fell on me to write this letter.
Speaker 3:And so I drafted this very long letter to send to email out to all of the parents Right. About, hey. This is what we're doing. This is what will be in the conversation. This is, you know, everything so that they so that mom knew.
Speaker 3:Because we wanna honor mom. Right. Right? For sure. So, man, this has just been a fire conversation with Yeah.
Speaker 4:Enjoyed it.
Speaker 3:Yeah. Not not at all what we were planning for today, but Yeah. That's okay. Hey, I'm I'm totally cool with it. Like, I I love these conversations.
Speaker 3:So I do wanna hit the one last question Yeah. Just because it is the title of the podcast. Sure. We've kinda hinted at it a little bit already in the episode. But, Holden, why why do you mentor?
Speaker 3:Why do you show up? Why do you come to 4 Runner, pour into the boys, be there every day, be that consistent presence? Like, what is your why that gets you there?
Speaker 4:Right. Essentially, it's because I wish I had an older male figure in my life when I was k through 6 age range
Speaker 3:Mhmm.
Speaker 4:Who would have told me that suffering is not is not synonymous with the Lord not caring about you or not loving you or punishing you for sin or leaving his hands tied behind his back in heaven. Can't do anything about it. I wish that I had had an older man who explained to me that the Lord loves me and cares for me and that everything that's going on in your life is for the purpose of growing you into the man that he wants you to be so that you can glorify him Mhmm. Forever. And so I hope that in my mentoring at Forerunner and anytime in the future, that that I can be the person that I had hoped I had when I was younger, who could have led me to some of the conclusions that I've come to today, but way before all of the sadness and heartache and depression that I went through as a as a middle school, high school, college age person.
Speaker 3:Gotcha. So you basically want to be the person that can point the students in the age range that are dealing with the things that you were dealing with. You can point them back to Jesus Right. And help foster their security in their identity in him. 100%.
Speaker 3:That's yeah. Love it. Yeah. That's so good. I love that.
Speaker 3:Amen. Well, Holden, thank you so much for joining us on the podcast today. It's Thank you. It's been a blast. I've loved it.
Speaker 3:It's been kind of an adventure with some construction going on in the in the studio. Yeah. Apparently, that's a theme because Caitlyn's episode has the same issue. But do you have any final words of encouragement for our listeners? I know you gotta have something.
Speaker 3:I mean, you got like we've talked about all kinds of biblical truths today. Yeah.
Speaker 4:Yeah. Man, if I were gonna say anything, it would be love the Lord your God with all your heart, mind, and soul and trust that he is going to take care of you and that in the midst of whatever you're going through, whether that be depression or anxiety like we were talking about or trying to find a new job or or, you know, anything in life. The Lord has all of your days ordained for you before you've ever been born and he knows what tomorrow brings and he is he's guiding you and he is guiding your life, so trust in that.
Speaker 3:I love that. Just trust the Lord will provide. Yeah. Trust the Lord will be good to you.
Speaker 4:Yes. Yes.
Speaker 3:Because the Lord loves you. Right.
Speaker 4:Right. Right. A 100%.
Speaker 3:And you can rest secure in that. I love that. Just trust him. Yeah. Well, listener, if you have missed everything in this last, I don't even know how long this has been, an hour, hour and a half, somewhere in there, episode.
Speaker 3:If you haven't listened to any of it, like, you need to just hit rewind and start over because it there's just so much there's so many good things are in this episode. But if you've missed all of that, I'm a leave you with this. You can mentor. See you next week.