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Interviews with entrepreneurs and business leaders who’ve “made it” in Thailand. Real stories of ambition, setbacks, and strategic wins on the path to success. Built for founders and operators who want to win in Thailand.
Guests from the US, UK, Australia, and Thailand. Honest journeys and cross-cultural lessons. Inspiration for anyone building in the Thai market.
Apply to be a guest:
https://madeitinthailand.com/apply
Hosted by Scott Pressimone, a US expat based in Thailand for 13+ years and owner of Fractiond, a Thailand-based strategy consultancy.
#ThailandBusiness #ExpatSuccess #ThaiExpat
Our business has never been ice baths.
We've never done an ice bath workshop.
The cold is part of the
mythology, the breath work, the
ice bath, the mindset training.
These are all ways to allow us
to control our nervous system.
So that's the whole goal
of the Wim Hof Method.
Dunking the head while your body's in
the ice bath and holding your breath
doesn't give any additional benefits.
It's just pure risk.
It's actually the initial cold
shock, which then triggers the
benefits and gives all the health
benefits people talk about.
In terms of a business, it is probably
the worst type of business because
we're training people who don't
need to ever come back to us again.
So then if they never come back and
they go somewhere else or they do
it at home, they know how to do it
safely, but also people come back
for the aspect of the community.
Alright, so I am here with the founder
of Breath inspired, Stuart Wilson.
Thank you so much for joining me.
No problem.
Yeah.
So I understand, Stu, that you
are the first and only level
two officially certified Wim Hof
Method instructor in Thailand.
Is that correct?
That's correct.
That's one of the things, yeah.
So that's a big deal.
Uh, I guess it's all, it's
called Advanced Instructor now.
I used to be the only one,
can't say that anymore.
My wife Kam, who's also an
instructor, that is a certification
and qualification in one
specific modality, what we teach.
Well, let's dig deeper into that.
First, let's give a kind of
introduction about like breath inspired.
Yeah.
Right.
You're the co-founder
along with your wife Kam.
Yeah.
Right.
But just give a brief introduction.
What is Breath Inspired?
What is it all about?
What, what does this company do?
So, Breath Inspired is an organization,
our organization, where we offer
science backed breath work protocols,
retreats, training, uh, experiences
to enhance health wellbeing.
Good explanation.
Um, well, so this brings up, I think,
why I invited you onto the podcast.
I've seen breath inspired, I've seen
you, uh, all over the place over the
last few years since I've been here.
Right.
I'd actually been really interested
in, uh, cold water immersion
and ice baths and whatnot, but I
realized that I only was kind of
hitting the tip of the iceberg.
I really didn't, uh, understand
what it is that you did.
So the first thing you mentioned
you focused on breath work, and can
you give an explanation of that?
Like what's the difference between
just going into an ice bath
versus understanding breath work?
Yeah.
Um.
Thing is the, um, cold water immersion
contrast therapy or ice baths that's
been practiced for hundreds, if not
thousands of years, you know, is
popular in Scandinavian countries.
Wim Hof was the one who popularized
it modern, um, and, you know, brought
it to the forefront in modern times.
The Wim Hof Method also contains a
breathing protocol to simplify it,
allows the cold water immersion, or
the ice bathing or cold exposure.
It allows you to get more benefits
from just doing an ice bath on its own.
What we teach with a method is that
we teach people how to do, uh, ice
bathing, cold water immersion correctly,
safely, and to get the maximum benefits.
So yeah, even if you've never done the
training before and you go to places,
do an ice bath and cold water immersion,
you're gonna get some benefits,
but there's ways to enhance that.
Yeah.
That's what we teach.
Yeah.
Yeah.
And that's was very eyeopening
to me, to be honest.
I really did not understand
the connection between breath
work and, and ice bath.
Yeah.
Is that typical?
Uh, it is, but I think it's, uh,
you've gotta make the distinction of
like breath work and then ice bath.
When you do cold water immersion
or an ice bath, you have
to control your breathing.
You know, one for safety and to be
able to go in the cold correctly.
Uh, so does breath control
while you're in the ice.
I don't like to call that breath work
because people tend to think that you
should be hyperventilating or doing
these, uh, weird techniques in the
water, which, you know, from doing the
training, you don't do that in the ice.
We breathe controlled and steady.
The breathwork side of it is what
we do lying down in the classroom.
And then the studies show that
when you do the Wim Hof breathing
technique and then go in in the
ice, you get more benefits from
just going in the cold separately.
It works synergistic together.
However, you can still do an
ice bath like you were doing and
notice benefits like, um, lower
inflammation, and you found that
it also helps you to de-stress.
But when we teach, uh, the Wim Hof
Method and the other things we do really
dive deep into what's actually going
on in the body, what's going on in
the mind, and now breathing protocols,
breathing techniques can enhance that.
Mm-hmm.
Well, let's rewind a little
bit 'cause I think we're gonna
dig deeper into the science.
Mm-hmm.
But I actually wanna talk
more about your background.
Yeah.
Because this is not something you've
been doing, uh, from the start.
I, I want to talk about that contrast
between what you were doing before and
how you actually got into this industry.
Can you explain that background?
Yeah.
So to keep it simple I was
working in the financial industry.
I've been working in it for many
years, so I guess you would call
it a high stress career, but
I didn't think that was bad.
I'm a stress ed anyway.
I love it.
I was bald by the age of 18.
I give you some idea of
how much of a stress I am.
I get drawn to stressful things.
I'm a skydiver.
I've done hundreds of skydives,
pretty extreme sports.
Um, snowboarding, done the
biggest swing jumps in the world,
travel the world doing that.
So I liked that high
adrenaline stress environment.
But what happened was, it was, it
was not a, to to be clear, I didn't
really understand what was happening.
But looking back, I now
know it was burnout.
Hmm.
So I'm living in Dubai and
from the outside it looks like
have an amazing lifestyle,
great career, doing cool stuff.
But then I realized I actually
didn't feel any happier doing this
than I, as opposed to when I was a
university student and I had no money.
I quit my job, took a break
from my job, went traveling,
and so I'm 49 years old now.
This is when I was 34, 35.
And I heard about ayahuasca.
And the reason it appealed to
me, I didn't know anything about
it, was a podcast I listened to.
They were talking about how it can help
people with, um, mental problems as
such, and I assume that was my issue.
And so I went down that route.
Wow.
So.
This ayahuasca a I mean, ex Explain that
to people that haven't experienced it.
What was that first
experience like for you?
Yeah.
Okay.
So before I talk about my
experience, just know that
ayahuasca a plant medicine.
It's, uh, a brew that comes from
the Amazon jungle and it's got
really popular and well known now.
But I would like to say it's a tool,
it's a modality, which has its place.
Uh, for me it was a good tool
to get the ball rolling, but
for others it might not be.
And I also wanna make it clear it
wasn't ayahuasca that fixed anything.
I'll explain that in a moment.
So I went to the Amazon jungle.
What the whole process did for me
doing these ayahuasca ceremonies
was it didn't fix a problem.
It just allowed me to realize
the gap that was already there.
The gap for me with was losing
a lost, somehow lost connection
with how I truly feel.
So yeah, I achieved a lot
financially and I guess
successfully in business, whatever.
I had a cool lifestyle.
But on the pursuit of that, I lost
really what made me feel happy and joy
and give me you know, the passion, but
for me, the ayahuasca experience really
did have a power of powerful effect.
Okay.
And then how does that then
relate to what you're doing today?
Yeah, so because, and I, I
understood then that, um, I had
this, this gap by the way, I
did five ayahuasca ceremonies.
Apparently that's a lot.
I had no idea at the time, never
taken psychedelics and never
really knew much about it all.
Never done meditation.
So I didn't really understand that
type of thing, what was going on.
But in the whole experience in the
group and the facilitators and the
shamans, you know, they sort of
help you to, uh, process everything.
So I remember saying to the
group, how can I maintain
this like open-mindedness.
And to, to put it in
a simple way for me.
The whole ceremonies and the time
in the jungle was like an emotional
reset, emotional and mental reset.
So it gave me clarity on my mind.
It put things in order.
So when I was mentioning to the group,
how can I maintain this when I go
back to my normal life, I think it's
highly illegal to be drinking ayahuasca
every weekend in Dubai or whatever,
and you don't wanna drink that, right?
So it was one of the, uh,
participants there who's a friend,
he said, why do you not do the Wim
Hof and breath work and things?
And that sort of appealed to
me straight away because of
my extreme sports background.
And I thought Wim Hof was a stunt man.
I didn't really know much.
And I thought, well, that appeals
to me, you know, it seems stressful.
I'm in.
So I, um, so that's when I got into and
signed up and went on the first, uh, Wim
Hof Method Winter Expedition in Poland.
Wow.
So what was that first
experience for you there?
Yeah, to be honest, when I got
there, and I think day one we went
in out in the snow, in bare feet, and
then we got in the freezing river.
I was thinking, what
the hell am I doing?
You know, I've gone from one extreme
to the other and, and I didn't
really understand it, but what, what
happened was when we did the first
breathwork session with Wim Hof and
it was only a short session, maybe
25 minutes, I remember coming around
from that thinking, oh, oh my God,
this as that same for me, that as
this same sort of reset type feeling
that I got from the plant medicine.
And it appealed to me
because it was me doing it.
You know, I didn't rely on
anyone else to give me something.
It wasn't an external
substance, it wasn't an external
thing, uh, getting done.
To me, it was me generating that.
So that's what sent me down the path,
not seeking out more experiences.
What sent me down the path was trying
to understand more of why breathing
exercises, uh, breath in certain ways
can have these, uh, very powerful
effects mentally and physically.
Hmm.
Well I think when you mention
ayahuasca and breath work, I do
think some people think woo woo.
Some people think a fad.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Especially the ice bath portion.
Right.
It's like, oh, that's just a fad.
A bunch of Silicon Valley guys
are taking ayahuasca or buying
an ice bath for their office.
Yeah.
Yeah.
It a fad?
Well, uh, well, when I first did
Ayahuasca and I was telling my
family and friends what I'm doing,
my brother thought I'd gone, lost my
mind because I mean, now we know a
lot about it and there's documentaries
coming out, uh, explaining how we, you
know, what it's actually doing to us.
Uh, but back then there wasn't
really much talk about it.
So, yeah, I think it just started
getting talked a lot about, you know,
in Silicon Valley and things like that,
so there was like blogs popping up.
So all I know, for me, it really
worked to discover something internally
then when I got into breath work.
Exactly.
That's exactly, I've always avoided
spiritual stuff or retreats.
Yoga retreats.
My wife's a yoga teacher.
I've always avoided that because
I just thought it was all woo woo.
And what I liked about Wim Hof method
was it's science backed and it had
a bunch of science, uh, studies,
uh, with Wim Hof already and since
been practicing it and teaching it
more and more sciences coming out.
I mean, Andrew Huberman is talking a
lot about the benefits of breath work
and cold exposure and things like that.
So it did appeal.
It did seem woo woo, but that's one of
the reasons I wanted to learn it because
my goal was to teach people like me who
would never do this stuff, you know,
who think it's woo, and that, and that's
one of the, that's one of the reasons
we teach it in the way we do as well.
Yeah.
So there is a part of the workshop
'cause again, full transparency,
I came to a workshop and, uh,
like I said before, it was
not at all what I expected.
Yeah.
A part of that workshop, if you don't
mind divulging this, but there was
a portion that you talked about kind
of the sine waves or the wavelengths,
uh, where people live, right?
Yeah.
And I think that you were saying
you're on that high end where, uh,
it's not the high frequency, but
it's essentially on the higher end
of the spectrum where it's high
stress that you're then used to.
Mm-hmm.
And there's people on the very low
end of the spectrum that are more
like, maybe they're depressed, right?
Yeah.
And they don't have that high
frequency of going from highs to lows.
Maybe they're staying within that.
Uh, wavelength almost.
And I'm curious if you can
explain that a little bit more.
'cause I didn't do a great job
explaining it, but where were
you on that spectrum and then,
you know, how is that different
than some other individuals?
Yeah, so that part to the presentation
was something I re researched and
added it to the whole workshop,
which we took you through.
Basically we have a bandwidth, we
have a window of tolerance, how
much stress we can handle in a day.
Um, and everyone's different.
People talk about de-stressing
and, you know, stress is all
bad, but we need both sides.
So stress, you can think of it as
sympathetic, sympathetic, uh, part of
your nervous system, which is action,
stress, whatever you wanna call it.
And then the parasympathetic side
is the relaxing, the downregulation.
A healthy person should be
able to move between the two.
So when you wake up in the morning,
you're in a a relaxed state.
Parasympathetic state.
But if you've gotta get up and
get your kids, you don't wanna
stay in a, you wanna get your kids
ready for school, you don't wanna
stay in a parasympathetic state.
You wanna move into action.
So our nervous system moves
towards stress, but then we
need the ability to move back.
What a lot of entrepreneurs, business
people like you meet, come across.
They are constantly in this
sympathetic dominant state.
So they're always in an action state,
which does allow us to achieve a lot.
We can have goals, you know, we
can do a lot of things, but if
you stay up there too long, so
if you stay in the sympathetic
dominant state, what happens?
You lose the ability to then come back
down into the parasympathetic state.
What that means in practical
terms is you end up working,
pushing yourself, achieving a lot.
But if you stay there in neurosciences
talks about this and how the brain
works, then you never shift downregulate
into a parasympathetic state.
And that state is when we
feel the joys of our labor.
You know, so you can push, you
can push, you can push, but
then you lose sort of track what
you're doing it for, you know?
So this is why it's talked a lot about
in Silicon Valley and tech industries,
because they've figured that out.
You know, you need to be able to
shift space and actually doing, so
there's a lot of neuroscience talk
now that stepping back from this, uh,
drive and trying to achieve things
and goals actually gives you a wider
perspective of your problems or your
issues or the things you wanna achieve.
And then when you go back into that
state, you're more aligned with
what you truly want to wanna do.
So that understanding of this shift
between stress or sympathetic.
And then coming down into
parasympathetic state, a healthy
nervous system is being able to,
to on demand shift in them states.
So I know you are, you've got a,
a little kid, maybe not you, but
I know many other people, uh, when
they're with a kid, they're always
thinking about work when they're
with the family, thinking about work.
And when they're working, they're
working hard, but they think they wish
do with the, the child or the family.
We wanna be able to do that on demand.
And what really appealed to me with
the breath work is it's trainable.
We can train our nervous
system to do that.
And who doesn't want to be able to
work hard and achieve a lot, but also
without sacrificing, uh, things are
working hard, uh, for like family
and friends and just general health.
Mm. That made sense?
Yeah, it does.
It does.
I, and I'll, again, I'll reinforce
that what you described as.
Always being on.
Yeah.
That's definitely what I fell into.
Yeah.
And I have a couple young children
and I try to be very present
for them when I'm with them.
But to your point, which you just
described, I am always on and there's
this feeling of never slow down.
Right.
You make some momentum,
you want to keep going.
Yeah.
And there's never a pause.
Yeah.
And I realize that when it
comes to emotion, uh, you
know, I'm not very emotional.
It's what's the next thing I have to do?
What's the next thing?
And it, it's like you're on
this flywheel, just like, you
know, in entrepreneurship, you
almost wanna get outta the, um,
the being a cog in a machine.
So you say, I'm gonna do my own thing.
But then you create your own machine
and then you're always working on
the next iteration of that machine.
And so there's just not an off
button, there's not a pause,
there's not a get perspective.
Yeah.
And I, I think some people
might, to your point, everyone's
different and some people might
be able to take a nice holiday.
Yeah.
But yeah, even when I take holidays,
every time that I'm on holiday, I'm
thinking about, oh my gosh, I need
to integrate that into my business.
Or Oh my gosh, I need to
talk to someone about that.
Yeah.
And, and, but when I
actually did the breath work.
That was the first, I had to
have been years that I felt
the emotionally that I felt.
Um, I, it was mind blowing
to me that that's something
that you can do yourself.
Yeah.
Right.
It's something to your point,
that it's in your control.
You don't need to take a drug.
Yeah.
You don't need to take
something from the outside.
I've always been against the whole,
do I need a cigarette to survive?
Do I need a, you know, a vape?
Do I need a, a pill?
Mm-hmm.
I've always disliked that because you're
now dependent on something, but the
idea that you can do something in your
own home yourself without an expense.
Yeah.
It's incredible.
Yeah.
Right.
Exactly.
And, uh, I, I, and that's what hooked
me, uh, in terms of a business is
probably the worst type of business
because we're training people who don't
need to ever come back to us again.
Um, which I think that's great.
And now I could talk later about
what things we do offer, which,
uh, people rejoin and stuff,
but that was the whole idea.
Can I teach something that
people can take away as a tool?
What's gonna enhance their life?
Not only enhance their own
life, but people around them.
So what you are talking about having
goals and achievements and you're
always on, we know from neurosciences
has been talked a lot about, we
have regions of our brains or more
specifically networks, and one of them
is called the default mode network.
The default mode.
Have you ever heard of this?
I haven't.
So the default mode network is we need
it, it becomes more active and we're
daydreaming, or more specifically, it
becomes more active when we're planning.
Or we are.
Another term used is running simulations
of what life is or what the future's
gonna be and what it means to you.
Self-referencing and things like that.
It's great for business because
when you've got time, you might just
sit down or you're on in a taxi or
on the train or whatever, and you
sit back and you start thinking,
okay, I'm gonna have this meeting.
I've got this idea, then I'm gonna
get back to the office and do this.
So you run in simulations of life.
That really helps to achieve
goals, but it's not living life.
It's running simulations of life.
And then what happens?
You can get stuck there.
So that's how people achieve a lot
because networks of the brain are
always on studies show that people
who meditate, uh, or do other types
of modalities, what actually happens
is the default mode network quietens,
and that's when they feel the joys of
all the hard work with breath work.
It's a, it's another modality, which
is very fast acting, which allows
people to shift state quickly.
However, some people can
do that through meditation.
My, my wife can, you know, she, you
know, was, she's Buddhist and she
can meditate for hours, no problem.
But a lot of people can't.
And a lot of different types of
people can't, especially in the
business industry, business world,
entrepreneurship, people are
constantly on default networks on.
So then you lose connection
to actually here now and the
whole reason they're doing it.
And also one of the things I learned
from researching and doing all these
qualifications was what's really
interesting is empathy for others is
determined by your depth of feeling.
So in other words, if you are always
in this default mode networking,
you are always running simulations
and then effectively use con lose
connection to your own emotional state.
You can have empathy for others,
or you have less empathy for others
because you are not allowing yourself
to feel this depth of, um, emotions.
Does that make sense?
I mean, there's some wild studies
were the, they were looking
at, uh, women who had Botox.
And what they did from the studies
was discover that when you have
Botox, especially around the
eye region, because that person
can't make his micro muscle.
Movements to mirror
someone else's emotions.
They have less empathy.
That reminds me a lot of how I've heard.
If you want to be happy,
you have to smile.
Yeah.
Because there's that level of, it's
something comes from that, right?
Your body feels it, and you are
now more likely to stay happy.
It's, it's really hard to stay angry
if you forced yourself to smile.
Yeah.
And so when you're mentioning
these, these micro eye movements,
it sounds similar to that.
Yeah.
I mean, Tony Robbins talks
about this all the time.
He's, you know, he talks about how
in his talks, a depressed person
comes over and they slouch in and
they're like, Tony, I'm so depressed.
And the first thing he tells him
is to stand up straight, shows
his back, look up and smile.
And then do you feel
more or less depressed?
'cause your physical body will feed
back into your nervous system and
determine your emotional state.
So all these things, uh, are tools
and ways we can change our state into
what we wanna, what, how we wanna be.
But the first thing is knowing.
What state you're in.
And some people are in this sympathetic
dominant state too long that they
even don't know the stressed.
So chronic stress.
And we know from studies that
that can lead to, uh, physical,
uh, ailments and health issues.
That's where the ice bath comes in.
'cause the ice bath really
makes, you know what stress is.
And then we learn how to then
control our response through the
training that we do in the workshop,
which we've already been to.
So that definitely brings me to the
business 'cause I wanna learn more
about how you made the transition.
'cause based on what you share,
you experienced this and then you
wanted to make sure others could
experience what you experienced
and that turned into a business.
But you also alluded to the fact that
it's not the best business when it
comes to profit because it's this level
of, uh, you're teaching people tools
that they can use and they can use
some of them, uh, theirselves and they
don't need to come to you every time.
And I wanna reinforce that
because the person who
introduced us, his name is Robin.
And Robin, uh, came
here in the early days.
Is that right?
Yeah.
Came to our, uh, studio, I think
about six or seven years ago,
right?
At least six.
So, so years ago.
And he came here, but my understanding
is he doesn't come every weekend.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Um, and he's mentioned to me before,
you know, that he has some of these
tools and he will do this at home.
When I asked him, are you,
do you have an ice bath?
How often do you come?
Um, you know, he comes still.
'cause of course he gets
tons of value from it.
But he does some of this at home and
I think he even does something we
can talk about more, which is maybe,
um, putting, well, it's the breath
work, but it's also, uh, just putting
your hands in, in a, in a tub of ice.
Right.
Um, or whatever you have at home.
And he leverages that.
So I, I think it just reinforces
that you're not trying to get
people hooked on your business
in a way that maybe some might.
Yeah.
Um, it sounds a little bit more like
you want to teach them the tools
and if they choose to come back and
they choose to get the value out
of being here in person, they can
do that, but they have the option.
Yes, exactly.
So, uh, just touching on that, so
we have the, the training where
people can come and they can go away.
And they have these tools that
they can use themselves, right?
Or even if they go to other places
which have ice baths, at least they know
how to do it safely and effectively.
Uh, so that's, we know
there's, uh, clients, customers
like that, and I like that.
They've got some value from us.
What we offer, uh, additionally
where people return is other
breathing modalities, other
breath work modalities.
So you were talking about the Wim Hof
Method there, but also people come
back for the aspect of the community.
So yes, you can do it at own,
it's great, it's great, uh,
to maintain that practice.
But then the other side is the community
aspect where people come along and
they're doing different environment.
They're around people who know the
training and then they get sort
of a different feeling from it.
There's a, there's a different
effect from group sessions
as opposed on your own.
Exactly.
The same as, um, a yoga class.
There's a difference between
practicing yoga in your living room as
opposed to going to a, a yoga class.
You know, we have a teacher
and other participants.
So it's not unusual such, you
know, there's apps where you can
learn yoga at home, but still
people still go to classes.
So that, that's the sort of
the business model if you like.
Um, but the reason, um, I wanted
to turn this in a business, there
was actually no plan originally.
I just wanted to help people.
And it's still the underpinning
of everything we do.
We never add something, we never
do things if I believe or feel
that it's not gonna help people.
So when we first launched
these in-person classes
was in Kam's, yoga studio.
People really resonated with
it and kept on coming back.
Then we went through all
the COVID thing, opening,
closing, opening, closing.
And during that period, uh, Kam
had already been doing the Wim Hof
breathing technique, which I taught her.
I'm already an instructor
at this point, of course.
And during COVID, she started
feeling depressed and afraid.
And you've met Kam, she's
bubbly and smiley, like
most high people are anyway.
And she was really struggling.
So I said to her, why do you not
try the ice bath side of things?
We know how this can help mentally, uh,
uh, the neurochemistry, what's going on.
And she did so.
To be honest with you, I thought
she was gonna get out and scream
and gimme a slap, but she used to
shiver watching me doing ice baths.
I've done ice baths every
day for many, many years.
Thousands of ice baths.
But Kam started doing it regular
and she did it every day, 100
days in a row, and I was taking
photographs and videos of her doing
it and putting on social media.
That alone got 60, 70 people
booked for when we next opened,
plus many, many followers.
If you see me getting an nice
bath, it doesn't look impressive.
It looks like I should be living
in the islands of Scotland anyway,
you know, in a coal country.
But seeing the Thai person that actually
started getting a lot of Thai people
interested, and I know we're gonna
talk about this cross culture stuff,
and then when we did reopen and my
other things I had going on financially
ended 'cause of COVID, then we sort of
made the commitment to, you know, do
this properly as a business together.
What's interesting about it to me
too is the environment you do it
in, because I have seen, you know,
I'm not saying it's bad, but there
are hotels that might offer it.
There's other businesses that might
tack it on as almost an extra, but.
Again, it seems more central because
if I look at this environment, right,
we have some ice baths behind us.
We have, um, you know, sauna, we have
these options here, but it's in a hole.
Yeah.
Right.
And having it in a house where you
can sit down on a couch where you can
hang out, it just seems very homey
as opposed to this, uh, like I said,
almost a spreadsheet oriented business.
It's like, how can we
churn people through?
I'll give another comparison.
Um, my kids go to TaeKwonDo and I
know some TaeKwonDo studios or yoga
studios or whatever, and they may
be, they kind of want to optimize
for the, for the space and they'll
say, let's get this crew in.
Let's get 'em out.
Let's get to the next one.
That's not at all this environment.
Yeah.
I don't, I don't see people waiting
in line saying, oh yeah, you
know, we need to use this space.
You, you seem to kind of make it
six hour events or an evening event.
It, it seems way more like a community.
And it sounds like that was purposeful.
Yeah, that a hundred
percent is purposeful.
And, um, I understand businesses
need, uh, to get the numbers in.
I completely understand that, but.
The approach we took, it's,
it is an experience, but
it's also training as well.
So that's why we got that elongated
type, um, class where we, as you
know, we put food on, you know, help
yourself with the buffet style stuff,
drinks it can communi, you know,
chat and communicate with each other.
The, feel free to hang around later,
but six hours sounds long as you know.
We mix it up between a chunk of
theory followed by practice, theory
practice, so it's not six hours of me
talking even though I could do that.
So we're talking about the
Wim Hof Method workshops now.
Just also be a word that
people are scared as well.
You have a lot of people who
know they're gonna be doing ice
baths, so they're very scared.
Uh, very nervous.
So you come in, you come and
sit down in the classroom area,
I guess, again, very homely.
Then we introduce people,
people introduce themselves.
It helps to get some understanding
of the level and why they're here.
And also we've gotta be aware as well.
That customers come.
Clients come from, someone's been given,
uh, the ticket for a birthday present.
They listen to a podcast and
they wanna know what it's about.
Or some people have health
issues that they wanna address.
So everyone has to fill
out a health questionnaire.
Very important for breath work.
Very important for any cold exposure.
That's one of the things we, we have
to do and should be done whenever
anyone's doing any cold exposure.
So everyone does that.
So we know everyone can do it.
Then we take 'em through basic intro,
and then we get them to feel the
cold exposure for the first time.
And we do that by putting the
hands in the ice that first step.
I can see in 90% of people's eyes
that they regret booking the workshop.
'cause it's per, it's purposely
difficult and it gives people
some, uh, some understanding of the
intensity and things that can go on.
Then they come and sit back down a bit
more theory, some bit more practice.
And then we give them some simple
tools and we teach them why they work.
And that's when we talk about
the stress levels and the, you
know, the sine wave you mentioned.
Then they come and do it again,
and then the second time they
put their hands in the ice.
Nearly everyone does it the first time.
Uh, did you, did you do?
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
I, I, I think I did all
right the first time.
Again, I had had some history
with, with cold water, and so I was
kind of like, oh, I can do this.
But I'll have to admit I had
that, uh, that feeling of, oh,
I'm not gonna be the first one
to get my hands outta the water.
Right.
I, and it, but it was hard.
And to that point, even someone who had
done it before, I still felt very cold.
And I was like, uh, let me, how hold,
how long can I hold him in here?
Who's, who's gonna take him out first?
I was doing that the first
time, but to your point, after
teaching, you taught more of the
theory and I came back to it.
Um, it was.
May any different.
Yeah.
And that's not even, uh, teaching
you how to control your breathing and
stuff on the breathwork side of things.
So after that, we have a break, so
everyone's eating and chatting and that
normally like cracks open this close
sort of, um, a behavior from everyone.
Now they sat talking.
That's great.
Then we come back and then we go
into the theory and the science
of the breathing exercises,
what he's actually doing.
And then everyone comes and
lies down and we take him
through a breath work session.
We guide people, first of all,
making sure everyone's safe,
understands what's going on, types
of sensations and things they can
have in their body and their mind.
All this, everyone's safe, you know,
using all our musical equipment
to get this environment feel.
And most people, I would say more
than the other way around, people
come for the ice bath, but then the
experience of breathwork side of
it, and that's what blows them away.
Same experience.
What I had when I got into
this, what what's good to
understand is the cold exposure.
The ice bath is a tool, uh,
used in a way for the benefits.
What we know through the Wim
Hof, the breath work is a tool.
So our business has
never been ice baths.
We've never done an ice bath workshop.
The cold is part of, uh,
the methodology, right?
Uh, then we all go outside and we,
you know, did a big ice bath outside.
We put a thousand, we use
2000 kilograms of ice.
We never reuse ice.
Everything's fresh for that workshop.
Uh, then we've got a hot tub and we've
got a sauna and go, go out there and
people, uh, finish off doing the ice and
then they enjoy the sauna and the hot.
Um, so that's a structure of it.
Um, and then when we get returning, uh,
customers or clients, seems, it seems
weird me even saying clients, 'cause
most of 'em are turned into friends now.
You know, the people who come
regular, when they come again, they
come to what we call a community
sessions where there's no theory.
'cause everyone knows what to do,
and then we go straight into the
breath work and the cold exposure.
So that's the Wim Hof Method of
things plus the community sessions.
Yeah, I, and again, I have to
admit, my, my exposure to this was.
From the perspective of I've done
ice baths before, I want to know how
I, why I would pay money to come.
Well, number one, why I
would spend six hours.
Yeah.
And then number two, why I would
pay money for it, because I
can get it for X number of bot.
And I'm not the only one because
I've talked to some friends
that I was trying to encourage.
And I think that it's really
hard to understand it until
you've experienced it.
Yeah.
Because I think it's very easy to
say, whoa, okay, that costs this much.
Right.
And then, oh.
Let me search around for ice
bath, Bangkok or something.
And then you say, oh, they're 300 bought
for the ice bath and, and you're, it.
It's apples and oranges.
Like, it's just so
drastically different.
But I'm curious, is that a common
thing that you've heard where people
are looking at that price and price
shopping and basically saying, wait,
you're more expensive than them.
You might just have these big margins
and you're just, you know, woo woo.
Or just trying to inflate rates,
not having any understanding
what the workshop is all about.
Yeah.
Yeah, exactly.
And some people say, oh, there's, 'cause
when we started doing this in 2018,
2019, no, there was nowhere in Thailand,
you could do ice baths workshops.
The majority of these places you
see popping up, the majority of them
have come to us and then, you know,
they've then gone on to make their
own ice bath place, which is great.
I actually, I don't see 'em as
competition at all because we've never,
ever done ice bath only workshops.
We've never done that.
Uh, that's not our thing.
The, there's nothing inherently
special about a container with icing.
It's the whole mythology, the whole
reasoning behind and, and what
it can do for the body and mind.
What I do like about people being
able to do ice baths easier because
it things open up closer to where they
live always cheaper, is because it gives
the pe uh, people the first step or
the first insight into cold exposure.
What we found as more and more of
these places pop up and more and
more people do it, a lot of them end
up coming to us anyway 'cause they
wanna learn more and that's great.
I like that.
And then they can go away
and continue the practice.
And what they're gonna know when they
do come, if they're already practicing
doing ice bath, they're gonna know the
safety and the things to be aware of.
So.
Yeah.
Like I said, most people think
even not just us, about the Wim
Hof Method as a whole, people
think it's all about the ice bath,
the cold exposure, but it's not.
That's really just like a side
thing to the main training.
Now, to your point about marketing
and getting information out there, we
purposely do not outline everything
that goes on in the workshop.
There's a few reasons
about the buying effect.
The pricing guidelines are set
by the Wim Hof Method, so we
have to charge a certain amount.
So we add value by extending the
workshop, deeper, understanding
food and drink, things like that.
So we're trying to add
value, not cut into what we
should be pricing things at.
So that's the main one.
But when people come and they see
how much we teach people and what's
involved, and the other aspects,
everyone leaves understanding that,
oh, the ice bath is not the main
thing, you know, to simplify it.
The breath work, the ice
bath, the mindset training.
These are all ways to allow
us to control our nervous
system, control our, our mind.
So that's the whole goal of
the Wim Hof Method, and that's
why the training is so, uh.
So long also in depth.
You say long again,
and it's all relative.
I mean, yes, it does take time.
Yes, you do have to say, do I have
these six hours to do this session?
But it went by very quickly for me.
Yeah, I
can definitely say, uh, and I like too
that you're mentioning that everyone's
at different levels, and I noticed
too that it's different people,
some of which might be traveling
here, traveling to Bangkok, others
like business owners, um, you know,
like myself, but also some of my
friends that have come through here.
Right?
Yeah.
And, uh, it just seems.
Like different levels,
different motivations.
But I love, like you just said, the
rationale behind why you set things up.
Because you have to get all those
people eased into it, it sounds
like, because they might not
know quite what they're getting.
Yeah.
And and also because, um, the Wim
Hof Method and studies showing about
the benefits health wise, there's
a lot of people that come to us
who have health conditions who are
looking for the Wim Hof Method to
improve their health or deal with some
symptoms of a disease or disorder.
We've even had doctors, entire
hospitals send, uh, patients to us.
So if you think about our
workshop, which is open for
people, you can have a mix.
You can have people here on holiday.
You're gonna have people who've
just heard about it the day before.
Then you've got people here who are
hoping it can give them some, uh, help
in helping with some health condition.
So we've gotta, so that's why
we structure the workshop step
by step, make sure everyone's
on the same wavelength.
And also what I've seen personally,
myself and other places around the
world, is there's something that
goes on about, there's something
that happens when people around
ice baths, they tend to go crazy.
You know, they're like
throwing at ice each other.
They're doing dangerous stuff.
They're, you know, messing around.
And our model, our, the business
and where we operate, we avoid that.
So, uh, we avoid spectacle, so
we're not interested in that.
Doesn't mean it's not a great time,
especially the community sessions.
Uh, but that's, you know, we have,
um, safety rules first, safety for
the participant more than anything.
And the whole training is how can
we maximize the health benefits or
minimize or completely remove any
risks and then give them the knowledge.
So then if they never come back and
they go somewhere else or they do it
at home, they know how to do it safely.
Right.
No, that makes perfect sense.
I, again, I'll, I'll reinforce that.
When I was here, everyone was very well
behaved because they were eased into it.
Whereas I can imagine if you're
just, you're on holiday or
something and you're like, oh,
that place has an ice bath.
You know, you're gonna have people
trying to have competitions, how long
they can stay in, you're gonna have
them kind of doing all that words.
This is, I wouldn't call it more
serious it, because it's not like
it was boring and serious, but
it's, uh, there's a method to it.
It's methodical, it's structured.
Um, and as to your point,
I understand safety Yeah.
Is, is a key to all that.
Yeah.
Speaking of which, uh,
dunking headed into water.
Okay.
Do you, yeah.
What's your feeling on this?
Yes.
So, um, so talking about ice baths
popping up and hotels and people
doing at home, or little businesses
popping home, I think it's great.
It gives more people awareness
of this type of tool that's
out there for health benefits.
I just hope that all these
places are doing it safely, um,
and know what they're doing.
What I found is that people are seeing
podcasts, uh, listening to podcasts,
are seeing pulse on social media, and
then thinking they know what they're
doing and then regurgitating that
incorrect information and appearing
as some sort of knowledgeable,
uh, facilitator around this.
I have seen some very dangerous stuff
going on, and that does worry me.
So when we do an ice bath
called exposure, we're
looking for health benefits.
So again, we wanna maximize the
health benefits and remove all risks.
Dunking the head, while your body's in
the ice bath and holding your breath one
doesn't give any additional benefits.
It's just pure risk.
So there are studies showing that
holding breath under, uh, very
cold water, you can get something
called the autonomic nervous system
clash, which can give you heart
arrhythmias or stop your heart.
And there's some horror stories
around the world where people have.
Uh, got injuries or even passed
away from this type of stuff.
Um, duration in the ice bath as well.
Very, we get this often people say, oh,
I do this long at an ice bath and I do
this, and they compete with each other.
Again, if people are safe, I, I tend not
to dis that, you know, especially these
sort of community type places where it's
more of a spectacle as long as people
safe, you know, that's the main point.
However, when we look at the studies,
you don't need longer in the ice bath.
It's actually the initial cold
shock, which then triggers the
benefits and gives all the health
benefits people talk about.
So duration going in longer is sort of
pointless, plus the longer you stay in
the ice, the risks start to increase.
So what we do in our
training, we explain that.
So we've had people come to us, say,
oh, I do 5, 10, 15 minutes at home.
Then they come to us learn, um, the
science behind it and what's proven.
Then they go back home and
practice and they do it correctly.
I think that's great.
However, we do train people to go
longer, but that's for specific things.
That's not for everyday
health and wellness.
That's for specific goals.
So yeah, dunking the head under the ice.
I mean, there's only one benefit.
I think it looks cool on
Instagram or something.
Don't do that.
If we're looking for maximum
health benefits, minimizing the
risks, you shouldn't be doing that.
What about having a spotter
and having other people?
'cause you mentioned, you know,
as long as there's a community
around it, that could be positive
as long as people are being safe.
Yeah.
But then do you have any feeling,
'cause I think you'd mentioned
that when you do your ice baths,
you have Kam around or vice versa.
Is that correct?
Mm-hmm.
Yeah.
The um, so the idea of having
someone, uh, keeping an eye on you
is because things can happen to
someone's body, someone's mind, even
if they've done hundreds of ice baths
already and never had a problem.
Sometimes people, when they get the
cold shock in the body, the limbs, the
body doesn't operate correctly when
the mind wants their arms to move.
So I've seen it myself in other
places and a couple of times
here, whereas someone's in the.
When it's finished and it's time to
get out, they can't physically move.
So we always advise have someone
near you to keep you safe.
However, I, I do understand that's
a bit difficult, you know, like
if you're doing it at, at home.
So whatever way you can, uh,
minimize the risks and make
sure that if something does go
wrong, you're gonna be safe.
That also highlight problems
with some businesses where they
have ice baths in a private room.
And they don't have
people checking on them.
If you have a client going in who's
maybe thinking about competing,
they don't know exactly what to do.
They're trying to, they think,
uh, the length of the ice bath is
important, then you run the risk
of someone injuring themselves
in these private enclosed spaces.
So in our workshops, in the
community sessions, we're always
here keeping an eye on people.
Um, so again, it just comes back down
to safety and thinking about things,
uh, if, if something did go wrong.
Mm-hmm.
You know, I do wanna talk a little
bit about the other companies that
offer this sort of thing, because to
your point, some of them can be good.
Mm-hmm.
Right.
Some of them can be risky, right.
But it's each different things and
you're not competing with some of these
other businesses that are just pitching
ice bath or cold water immersion.
'cause that's not what you do.
However, um, one thing that I found
pretty unique about the session that
I attended here was the fact that
it's you and Kam working together.
Right and the like, my experience
of that, and I've shared this with
other people and they said the
same thing, is that having you lead
the session and having Kam in the
session as well was something I
think that other companies probably
can't replicate because it was very
interesting how you all worked together.
And I wanna dig deeper into that
later on about how you were able
to run a business with your wife.
But, uh, but anyway, I
just wanted to share that.
And I'm curious if you've gotten
feedback where having your energy
and her energy together, right?
It was kinda like the feminine and
the mask and it was like you all
leading a workshop together was like.
Just very unique.
Very unique.
Right?
Because she was walking around
like helping with the, the rhythm.
Um, and, and you were kind of guiding
it from the front of the room, but
I don't know, I'm curious, have
you heard positive feedback about
it before?
Yeah, yeah.
Um, it works really good during
breathwork sessions as well, having
this different, uh, this tone and
what I'm doing and what Kam's doing.
Yeah, we have a lot
of comments with that.
But it also, even just a very
practical point, you're gonna be
coming to a space where you're
gonna be getting in your swimwear.
Mm.
So having a man and a woman, uh, there
with a mixed group, you know, it's gonna
help the females feel comfortable in
a group in the bikini and vice versa.
So it, it works well for that.
And not only, I think it works
great and we have comments all
the time about our workshop
having myself and Kam, but Kam is.
And we, you know, Thai.
A great, um, understanding of English.
So in an English workshop, which we
alternate between Thai and English,
we tweak, we get Thai people joining.
So Kam's always there to translate.
She's also there to translate my
northern English into normal English.
Um, but that sort of, um, one, it
makes people feel safe and you get
in that cultural mix of understanding
and what other people are, you know,
thinking about or worried about.
So yeah, we have that
common quite a lot.
Yeah.
So that, again, it's something I
think would be difficult to replicate,
but there's also copycats, right?
And intellectual property is something
that's very interesting here.
Um, you know, I, I think
everyone has their own way of
doing something and who knows?
Some people might like it here, some
people might like it somewhere else.
But what I think is a line that's really
tough to cross is when people copy Yeah.
What you're providing.
And I'm wondering if you've experienced
that where individuals were coming
here then trying to essentially
hack their way to the top and
saying, I'm gonna copy what they're
doing here, copy paste over there.
But they might not have the foundation.
Has that happened to you before?
Oh yeah.
But um, I think it's important to say
about copycats and, you know, there's
other businesses will offer what we do.
Well, there is no other business
in Thailand that offer what we do.
So we're the only certified
Wim Hof Method instructors.
And that's just one modality.
And like I said, we've never
offered an ice bath facilitator.
We're not interested in that.
Um, other people, other companies
are set up, you know, cold exposure
places and there's some bigger
companies setting up now we've got
branches in different countries.
Um.
You know, and the term ice bath is
very popular most of the time it's
a cold plunge, but they use the ice
bath for the marketing side of things.
These places popping up, doing it
again, like I said previously, I
think it's great 'cause it allows
more people to become aware and that,
that, that lower price point of,
of doing it's again, opens it up.
The differences really, you know,
a lot of places are doing it.
Not very hygienic,
they're just recycling.
They just keep topping up the ice.
Again, it's not hygienic.
Um, they're also allowing things
to be done a bit uncontrolled
or dangerous practices.
But if, if.
Places are safe and hygienic.
as well.
I think it's amazing.
You know, that's just one
aspect of the things we teach.
The more things that can come
out, the more exposure about the
benefits of cold exposure and sauna,
I think that's a net positive.
Talking about, um, intellectual
property and copying, oh my God.
The, some of the stuff we've experienced
and, uh, gone through over the
years, it's mind blowing early on.
I'd say about, I think it was about
2020, we even had someone, um, let's
say saying negative things about us
on social media platforms and, you
know, lies and things like that.
That was an issue and there's
laws in Thailand about that.
So we had that problem.
We've also had people straight up
recording me and I saw a Instagram post.
This is, um, about a year ago I
saw an Instagram reel and it had
me speaking in the background.
I thought, that's interesting.
I've never been there.
So they were just play my recording.
I've also had five star hotels,
resorts and retreats using our
image, using our photographs here
to promote their new offerings.
It just seems to be pretty
rife in Thailand now.
And the intellectual property
thing, it's the Wim Hof Method.
Very strict with their branding.
one for safety,that anyone that uses
it, they know what they're doing.
There's a lot of people, um,
infringing on the Wim Hof Method,
trademarks and copyright stuff.
Luckily we don't have to deal with
that because the Wim Hof Method
company dealat, and they've got global
trademark and copyright rules, you
know, for certain terms and names.
But I'm surprised how many people do
it and how many people do it willingly.
And I'm also surprised as well that
when people do learn new things
from us and then they start talking
about it, they never really give
us a little bit of love back.
They never tell us that they
learned from us, which I'm not
sure what that's about because, um.
Where I come from and the way
I've done business all my life,
I think that's a positive.
If I've learned something from
you, Scott, and that changed,
uh, give benefit or opened up new
doorways, I would give you credit.
I, we have clients who have turned
into friends here who just chatting
to 'em have given me insights into
business or an NLP stuff or, uh, some
other training, and I've credited them.
I think that lacks a bit over here.
I think, I'm or Asia, but this crediting
each other from learning things.
I think it's a bit lacking.
And here, if I was a business coming
to Thailand, um, from overseas and
setting up here, I would from the very
start, make sure all the IP, trademarks
and copyrights are in place because.
It will happen.
Yes.
Yes, it definitely will.
Uh, yeah.
Uh, I'm sorry you had to go through
all that because it is interesting
that people, number one, they're
not crediting you, but number two,
they just, they don't even know
that these companies might not even
have that knowledge that you have.
And as you said, it's so important to
have the foundational knowledge mm-hmm.
To actually go through the
courses and be certified.
Yeah.
Right.
Uh, it's not just a matter of, uh,
look, I took a workshop one time
and now I, now I can do it myself,
or now I can promote it Right.
To, I I, I think people like to
take those shortcuts a little too
often.
Yeah.
And the only, the, the, the thing
what, uh, worries me more is things
like ice bath called exposure and
breath work do have, uh, inherent.
Potential dangers, especially the
ice bath and always very popular.
Uh, it can, it can, uh, it, it does
have, um, risks also the breath work
side of things as risks, you know,
especially when people are doing so
there's loads of breath work modalities,
there's so many techniques out there.
Some of them can be
used for trauma release.
Now if you go to a one of these,
uh, trauma release breath work
sessions, and that starts mobilizing
some deep traumas where you need
an experienced trained therapist or
trauma informed person, and it's not
in place that can cause problems.
Um, so my concern is just
health and safety for everyone.
That's what I would love.
That's what I would like to see
the standard being, uh, raised.
And there are some hotels and resorts
from retreats who've contacted us
about helping them to raise the safety
standards and understand things more.
Um, so it's not so much about, um,
copying then affects our business.
It's more about copying and then
putting customers and clients at risk.
That's my concern more than ev anything.
I think if more people, uh, get to
feel and taste the benefits of breath
work and cold exposure and the other
things we do, I think that's great.
As long as it's done
safely and and correctly.
There's no difference from someone
going to a, a private personal
trainer and then learning.
Maybe some sort of training protocol,
which is really good at enh.
Enhancing squat strength, leaving that
and then claiming you've c created it.
It happens all the time
in the fitness industry.
Nutrition as well.
It's the same.
So it doesn't surprise me.
Uh, it just surprises me.
How often it's done
over here, do you know?
Yes.
Uh, and you've probably come
across this, I know I've spoke to
other business owners that have
had this problem for a long time.
Um, so yeah, that it is a concern,
but from my point of view, it's more
about health and safety for clients.
Yes.
Yes, yes.
And a point that you made as well
in the past off camera was about
how breath work might seem innocent.
Yeah.
It might seem, people might think
relaxing when they hear breath work.
Yeah.
But is the Wim H method, is it a
relaxing breathwork where you're
just gonna, you know, fall asleep
or is it something different?
Yeah, so the Wim Hof Method,
uh, we can talk about that.
There's other breathing techniques.
So the Wim Hof breathing technique
is also another stressor.
So it's dosing our nervous system
with a controlled amount of stress.
That's why you've gotta be careful
using them types of breathing
techniques, because it can trigger
panic attacks and other deeper things.
Um, so again, and I
think the whole issue.
Uh, what we're trying to get people
to understand, um, is the cost of ice
is so cheap in Thailand, so the cost
of entry into this market is very low.
Breathing is completely free.
You know, so very low cost and I think
that's why it tends to get jumped on
pretty quickly because there's no cost.
Like if you had to do an ice bath,
um, and you had to buy a hundred
thousand dollars machine, there's
gonna be less people copying, right?
Or every time you taught
breath work, you had to buy
a really expensive system.
It's gonna be less people, but
be because there's near zero
cost of entry, that's why it
tends to get abused a little bit.
Yeah.
And I, I think, you know, in the
stuff you come across all the
businesses, the things that tend
to have little cost to get in and
replicate, people tend to do that,
right?
Of course, of course.
The, let's focus on the business side of
things,
right?
Yeah.
So, um.
I'd love to hear.
I, I know you already mentioned
why you got into this.
Uh, did you think that you'd start a
business or did it just come naturally
because you were so interested in this?
Yeah, you know, like when I've,
I've done podcasts and interviews
about business, I think, oh my
God, like should I claim that I
had some master plan all along?
And that's why I do this.
I had some sort of foundational
underpinnings of what I wanted to do.
First of all, it was to help people.
And originally it was to help
people like me, people who wouldn't
even look in these types of things
'cause they think it's woo woo.
Uh, that also, uh, that also,
uh, determined I would teach it.
So it's science-based, being able to
reference it to things that are proven.
However, he does open up things
which are not proven yet by science.
Uh, so there was never gonna,
there was never original plan
to be a full-time business.
COVID helped to, uh, push me, push
us to take the risk of turning
it into a full-time business.
Um, yeah, and that's where
it sort of came from.
So we do have some rules that
have continued, uh, to direct
how we, how we do things, how we
grow, if we grow, what we offer.
Uh, and that all comes from, um,
I'm not sure if you talk much
about when you, you know, talking
about business, but we also only do
things that we're gonna enjoy doing.
So we do turn down a lot of things.
I don't wanna get into anything that
I'm not gonna enjoy and we turn down,
um, you know, uh, collaboration that
seems very popular in Thailand and Asia.
We've turned down so many of them.
We've sort of been semi burnt by
things like that in the past where
it's ended up being a negative for us.
Um, I know Tim Ferriss, you know,
um, if you read his book when he
was selling his brain supplement
and he talked about he had.
So many distributors and it, he
applied the 80 20 rule and he really
panicked cutting a big, a bit, one
of his biggest distributors out.
But that was given the most
headaches and that allowed him
to enjoy his business more.
But he did lose a lot of orders.
But because he enjoyed it more,
he could apply more energy to
benefiting his clients already.
So it's sort that sort of idea
is like, do I wanna do this?
Yes, it could give bigger exposure.
Yeah, it could, you
know, some collaboration.
Maybe we offer more
workshops or whatever.
But then I look at it, I think,
well, the client's getting a
worse, uh, experience and I
don't think I'm gonna enjoy it.
So that's what I tend
to work on as well.
Now what is it like
working with your wife?
It's an absolute nightmare.
No, I'm joking.
Okay.
So, uh, so, um.
You know, Kam, you know, my backstory,
uh, Kam is the complete opposite to me.
I, if I'm left to my own devices
without doing things I teach, I'll
default into stress, air, this
default mode network planning.
And Kam is the completely opposite.
Being Thai, being Buddhist,
she knows how to bring me back
into the present moment and
really enjoy what we're doing.
So personally, that, that, that for
just my life, not just working together
has been, you know, has changed my
life, you know, uh, for the better.
In terms of business, it's great
because Kam's Thai, she needs to
speak to, government, uh, legal stuff,
accountants, she deals with all that.
Um, but also gives me insights
into marketing as well.
Like things we, you know, that
doesn't quite resonate with
Thai people or Asian in general.
it's not that we have designated
roles, is that both of our background
and experiences and our cultural
differences, then we come together
to, uh, the best way possible.
If I was trying to do it all
myself with no Thai partner,
no Thai wife, I think that, you
know, could be quite challenging.
I know that's what one of the
services you offer and other,
you know, um, specialists.
So yeah, for me it's,
everything's a net positive.
Now with working together and
building this business, it sounds
like you want to build a business.
Keep building and growing a
business that you want to be
in, that you want to be part of.
You don't want it to grow to the
point that you're not enjoying it.
So I definitely get that.
What do you then think you might
grow into, uh, if you want to grow?
'cause of course you're very
successful where you are, and
I'm just kind of curious, where
do you think this might go?
Or do you think it's kind of
keep it going and just kind
of doing what you're doing?
Yeah, I, I, um, my.
Default mode network side of my
brain that likes a plan and run
simulations of what it could be.
And, you know, things for the future.
I tend to, I know we talked
about this off camera, the old
world of apps and online stuff.
I think the market is a bit saturated,
but I do think there's, um, a use
of this, uh, a blend of the two.
Were in-person training retreats,
experiences with then some sort of app
or online system, what can continue
the training or keep people involved
in a community type way, but part of,
you know, the overall service offering.
Uh, so it's definitely,
uh, that's in the pipeline.
The, um, expansion on retreats and
experiences like we did late last year.
We went to Mongolia and we did a
Wim Hof Method expedition there.
We took a, a bunch of our
well-trained clients, and we were
in, you know, minus 29 to minus 35
degrees, and we did stuff there.
So there's definitely more of that.
There's, we've also looked into things
like satellite offices or satellite
studios or people trained by us,
and we, we were in the process of
doing that already, but everything
we do, uh, I know we talked about
this earlier, so when Steve Jobs came
back to Apple, he cut away all these
peripherals and, well, some of things
were good, but he, he removed all
the smaller products and services,
and then he relaunched the iMac.
And then from then on anything
he added, anything they added
had to be complimentary to
the ecosystem and make sense.
So we, uh, we don't follow trends.
That's a big thing I'm into.
I don't follow trends.
I take any business step very slowly
because things can change quick and
I wanna make sure that any additional
service we add, any additional
training, it's done, uh, correctly.
Uh, and that also applies to
any expansion things as well.
Yes.
Now, you mentioned
community a few times.
Yeah.
Uh, I can't help but think that people
have been behind their computers
as you were in the past in finance.
Right.
We're behind our computers,
we're slouching down.
Right?
We're not feeling good about ourselves,
and we're, uh, or maybe we think
we're feeling good because we're
getting rewards, but then, you know,
you have all the, the negative side
effects that come along with that.
And I'm wondering, do you see that
there might be this shift where
people are now trying to get more
in physical space, trying to find
a local community, um, trying to go
to more brick and mortars as opposed
to up buying everything online.
Do you think that that's a shift?
Do you or do you think it's
a pendulum is maybe going
back in the other direction?
Because when I see the community of
people here, it seems like this is
something that people really enjoy.
Mm-hmm.
Being around people in, in meat space,
right?
Yeah.
Yeah.
But
what is your thought on that?
Yeah, a hundred percent.
I think, um, I think so.
There's, you know, lots of
articles and talk about this
social wellness movement, you
know, and, and, and anytime there's
a movement, it can go crazy.
Like I've seen.
Uh, raves in saunas and,
you know, like crazy stuff.
I, I mean, I, I don't even, um,
I don't even talk negative about
these things because if someone,
if people find benefit from that
and it improves a life, great.
You know, it's not, it's not the
type of thing I want to get into.
Uh, but one of the reasons we structured
our services and what we offer, uh,
being an expat and knowing a lot of
expats, you know, I've got some friends
here who've been here 30 plus years.
I came here when I was 27 with
a friend who used to live here.
So I met expats who were, uh,
who were living here then.
And what I discovered in speaking
to people, if you are an expat,
especially a guy and you wanna meet
people or the expats and you're
not into going the gym, I mean,
that's a great place to meet people.
Or Muay Thai or martial arts, whatever.
If you're not into that, one of the
only places you can meet fellow expats.
In the bar drinking, you
know, that's not good.
Right.
You know, we need some other way,
uh, to, you know, build a community.
So, or it could be part of a community.
And that's where, you know, um,
the British Chamber of Commerce
and, uh, the British Club and
things like that are really good.
So, one of the rea, one of the
things I wanted to do is, and
then that comes to this space
as well, being more like a home.
I wanted it to be a place you could
come for hours where it getting
healthy, makes you feel good.
You can make new friends
or build a community.
And that's, that is, I guess
the, you know, one of the driving
forces why we continue to do this.
You know, the transformations
we've seen with people from health,
uh, health wise, just for join
the Life, you know, the feedback
has been, you know, like amazing.
And I feel we, we feel honored to
be able to offer this type of stuff.
And, you know, the way I'm talking
now, you can tell it's more
than just offering a facility to
get in an ice bath or a sauna.
It's more than that to us.
And I think our, I feel that our
customers and clients know that as well.
Yeah.
I like, I like the distinction.
I, I know you're saying
there's a benefit of chambers.
I totally agree.
I love the, some of the chamber
events, but I think sometimes some
of the quote networking events Yeah.
End up being more of, you know, here's
my business, here's my business card.
Yeah.
Um, and.
I, a lot of my friends here will have
their communities which are outside of
that, and so they might be motorcycle
racing or they might be racketball
or pickleball or whatever it may be.
Yeah.
But the idea is that that's
where they have some really good
conversations and they build, you
know, really good relationships.
Sometimes they even do, and I'm not
trying to take things always back
to business, but sometimes they
do end up turning into business
relationships because you're not
there for business relationship.
It's the side effect.
Yeah.
Right.
Or you're not there to say, I'm gonna go
to that community event to make friends.
But it's the side effect of
enjoying other people's companies.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Uh, does that resonate with you?
A hundred percent.
And I am, I, you know, this is
something we're gonna launch hopefully
soon, is just a, a men's meetup
session where we do breath work,
or maybe it includes ice baths or
whatever, because the, so just, just.
Looking at the Wim Hof Method, since
2019, 2018, 2019, we have taught
over 4,000 people the Wim Hof Method.
That's not including the other
breathwork modalities and training
we do that doesn't include corporate
events and team building exercise.
So we've seen a lot of people
who've had people coming to
us from day 1, 6, 7 years.
Um, Robin was one of them.
Uh, we've had people move countries and
every time they pass through, come and
see us, and we constantly get feedback.
I personally get feedback.
People say, oh, you made, you know my
life so much better since coming here.
Feel physically healthier.
I feel happier.
I've met some friends and what's
actually interesting in this place
is that people have got business from
coming here where they've, you know,
oh my God, I didn't realize you came.
Or, you know, we have everyone
from CEOs to, you know, um.
Students.
We have a mix of everyone and that's one
of the things I like about what we do.
So many different types of
people come so the communities
can turn into business.
But one of the reasons it works is
because breath work and the cold
exposure and sauna, it makes you
release feel good neurotransmitters.
So instead of relying on drinking or
smoking, people have a shift in state.
They feel good.
People tend to be more open
and connect with each other.
You know, the world of breath work.
If you told me 20 years ago I'd be
teaching this, I'd be like, what
the hell are you talking about?
Um, the cold expos exposure type thing.
When we, uh, launch this if you like.
We didn't overwhelm people by
giving this huge catalog of
everything we can teach 'em.
Again, going back to Apple, you know,
the only add things when it's right
and it compliments the ecosystem.
We've had people come to us
six, seven years ago who've
never done any breath work.
They come to us to a Wim Hof
Method workshop, never done cold
exposure, never done breath work.
And five, six years later they're
signing up for seven to 10,
uh, day breath work retreat.
So it's building trust with
the customers, clients.
They know they can trust us.
We know, uh, we can trust them,
and because then we've offered
something new or something
additional, they wanna experience it.
Even if they don't really know
about it, but now our service, this
additional thing, they, they trust
us to, you know, take part, you know,
and it's really good actually seeing
that, you know, what do you call it?
The customer, uh, the, you know,
feedback and the customer's journey.
Oh, okay.
Now taking people from this to here
and now, the, and that's what we,
I know I mentioned before about the
1000 true fans, the Kevin Kelly.
Yeah.
1000 True Fans idea.
Were, and that's actually one of the
underpinnings of our business model.
We're not trying to, with this
global, you know, business offering
everything online and trying to get
as many clients as one, which a lot
of these other places in Thailand
who are offering the ice bath stuff,
they're working more in a numbers game.
I'm not really interested in that.
I want to, you know, have, you know,
give, um, clients deep understanding
of what's going on, and then mainly
to be able to pass the tools to them.
They can use without us
or without anywhere else.
Yeah.
That's, that's sort of the underpinnings
of how we wanna operate go from,
from the beginning and going forward.
Yeah.
And I'm not sure how intentional you
were about that referral network, but
I certainly could see it work, uh,
intentional or not, because again,
uh, Robin, I had mentioned introducing
us, then I'm bringing in some of my
friends, uh, who are in, in businesses.
Right.
And, uh, Jan is one of them.
And, and shout out to Jan.
Uh, he came and then after he
experienced the workshop, he then asked
the staff to experience the workshop.
Yeah.
And then when I was at another workshop,
then of course one of his staff, uh,
brought her boyfriend along with,
you know, and this sort of thing.
Yeah.
And, and, and now when I'm at an event.
They're bringing that up, right?
Yeah.
And, and his staff are saying, oh,
I was at the workshop with you.
Oh, you know, you gotta
bring your wife next time.
It's one of those things Yeah.
That it's just funny, once
you've experienced it, you
now have those true fans Yeah.
That are promoting it.
So that's why I wanna focus on that
business side of, you know, that to
case that I would recommend business
owners if they haven't thought about
their referral networks or things
like that, that's something they
need to take away from this, is that
there's ways to set that up in a way
that it can help spread the word.
Not in a artificial way,
but in a natural way.
'cause when people have a good
experience, they wanna share
Yeah.
That experience.
But I'm curious if there's any other
recommendations or things that you
think have worked for your business,
uh, that you think some business
owners don't, don't capitalize on.
Yeah.
So you're saying about the referral
type stuff, you know, as official
way of saying it, but, um, so our
marketing and what we put out there,
there's a combination between,
um, education in our marketing,
um, as well as what we offer.
But we purposely.
Hold back on what we say in our
marketing and our website because
some things you just have to
experience, like you've already said.
That also helps with
the referral aspect.
It was say, oh, it was more
than I thought it was gonna be.
Oh, I learned, you know, things I didn't
know I was gonna learn or experience.
And because of that, then
they tend to talk about it.
Uh, so I guess in terms of other
businesses, it is adding value, which
you may not promote as being a, a value.
Um, but that added benefit,
that added value you give,
people wanna talk about that.
You know, it could be as simple
as customer service or, um, ease
of, uh, purchasing something.
There's so many ways you can add
value, you know, to, Tony Robbins
talks about this a lot, um, but.
I always had confidence in that
because it was bound to happen.
You know, people have a powerful
experience and the amount
of, uh, details we, we wanna
give people and help people.
I, I was very confident that people
are gonna show that and they want
other people to experience it as well.
Now, what about Thailand specifically?
Um, are there any things that
were particularly difficult about
either starting a business in
Thailand or operating a business
in Thailand or anything that
was, uh, surprising to you, maybe
even a positive way, um, about
Thailand?
Yeah, when, uh, we were, you know,
looking at all this, so originally one
of my ideas was to go the digital route.
So we based in Thailand and that's
when we spoke to, uh, the BOI and
uh, the benefits of going that route.
But then I realized we need
in-person, um, classes, you
know, and we venue and stuff.
And another, uh, thought was
about renting spaces as well,
not having a dedicated base.
Uh, that threw up some issues.
So for us, the difficulty was just
understanding about employing a
non-Thai, you know, all the rules
around that does make it easier
being, uh, married to a Thai some
benefits from that, but it's still
complicated, you know, still things
you've gotta make sure in place,
one, to be a legitimate business.
Secondly, make sure I'm
working correctly, uh, under
the correct work permit.
And I have the matching visa and
all that, but linked to that.
What was really surprising, what
made it easier is those companies
which will do that for you.
Mm-hmm.
So Eve and they will explain it as well.
They don't just do it
and you're in the dark.
You can get advice and help from
customers who will do the full
process or just give you pointers
or do certain sections as well.
So I think that was a, a a a really,
like when, when I've had friends,
uh, contact me and thinking about
starting businesses here and they
say, I've read this page and, and
it got updated six months ago and
things have changed and I just say,
reach out to some of these agents,
you know, 'cause that's their job.
They keep on top of things and, and my
experience, um, uh, is, has been great.
Yeah.
What's the favorite part of
what you do today and what's
your least favorite part?
Favorite part is I just love what
I do and because I love what I do.
That sort of removes all the sort
of business worry behind stuff.
If I was gonna be brutally
honest, I really don't care about
the financial side of things.
You are probably like, oh my
God, I don't wanna listen to this
on a business podcast or video.
But I think because of that, it
makes working in the business so
much easier and I have a solid
underpinning of what we do is to
ultimately help people and 'cause it
helped me and I wanna assure that, um.
So the easiest is that just doing
what we're doing and seeing how what
we are helping people, the feedback
and, and I've always, um, I've always
said to Kam and explained, 'cause
she does worry about certain things.
I'm not in this, we're not following
hype, we were doing this before
people really understood it.
We're not following trends.
And longevity proves
your business in the end.
Right.
You know, if you can be, uh, around
a long time and continuing to offer
what you do and, and maintaining
the standards and things like
that, uh, that makes me happy.
I love it.
You know, my degree is in
design, industrial design.
So the, the creative aspect
behind it, uh, I really love and
I love doing what I, um, I do.
The, uh, negatives behind it is
currently we are an in-person
business when we go on holiday.
Then we don't make
money, we don't do it.
And it's so funny, we have clients
who, who know we're gonna go away.
Like we've just come back from Mexico.
I get invited to be a speaker
at the 20th year of the Breath
Festival in Cabo, Mexico.
Uh, Dan Brulé, one of my mentors and
I wanna be students and teachers.
Um, a lot of our regular clients
who come every Tuesdays, Wednesdays,
Saturdays, Sundays, they were like,
oh my God, what are we gonna do?
Can we climb over the walls?
Can you give us the details
for filling the ice?
And things like that.
So when we do go away, it's,
it, it's, that's the bad side
of it, because one I want.
To carry on offering what we do
to our regular clients, but then
also the, the business side of
things obviously takes a hit.
So I guess that's the
negative side of things.
Do you see yourself doing
this for another 20 years?
To be honest, I see doing this
till I drop dead sounds weird.
Uh, that the sum, it sounds super
simple when you talk about breathing.
You know, I tell my older brother,
he's like, you pay this much to
go on a to learn how to breathe.
You know, you are, you crazy.
But when you're in this and the the,
the depth we wanna go into and what
we offer, there's so much to learn.
There's so much to understand.
There's so much for me to, to try and
do and then offer that to clients.
Like there's, there's certain things
I've done with breath work and things
like that, or the modality, uh,
modalities, which have not resonated
with me, so I don't offer it.
But it's, you know, it's been,
uh, an experience for me as well.
I can honestly see me
doing this forever.
One of the reasons, and going back
to the, our business model, I think
we talked about this before, we
purposely made our business siloed.
So we're just in this
breathwork sector, if you like.
We don't want to offer things
which don't compliment breathwork.
We could, there's so
many things we could do.
Um, we purposely stick to this, uh,
siloed, um, container of sticking
with breathwork and everything that
compliments it because I think the
future is not a business that can
offer everything at a lower level.
I think the future is people wanna
seek out the experts or the services
or the business that have the depth
of knowledge and understanding,
which other places don't.
Because with social media and how we
see this to get shallow amounts of
information, there's so many places
out there, not just in our industry,
wellness industry or whatever you wanna
call it, other businesses that have a
shallow understanding of information.
'cause it's so easy to get and
then build businesses around that.
Uh, I think the future and the
successful businesses, businesses
are the ones that have the depth
and breadth of understanding.
I think that's the future.
I might be wrong, but I think that's
the way it's going with marketing.
I think that's going
with, um, technology.
I think it's going with especially
like the wellness industry.
Hmm.
Now you've, you've built this
business in Thailand, right?
You've, you have some
roots here now, right?
Mm-hmm.
Uh, how do you feel about Thailand,
uh, after being here for so many years?
And how do you think of
the future of Thailand?
Are you positive about it?
Do you think things are headed in
the good direction or, um, are,
are you seeing some challenges?
Well, I've lived in a bunch
of different countries.
Dubai, one of 'em, or lived in different
cities in the uk, um, lived in different
countries in Europe, and Thailand's is
the place that only ever felt like home.
Um, other places never did.
And that's probably why I sort
of started setting roots here.
You know, it can, uh, in, and to
be honest, when I travel and go
different places, there's not many,
if any, that I wanna stay longer as
opposed to come back to Thailand.
And what I particularly like about
Bangkok, and I've lived in, you know,
some of the major cities, uh, around
the world is Bangkok is unique.
Because it's design your own lifestyle.
If you want a high-end luxury
lifestyle, you can do it.
If you want the party and
lifestyle, you can do it.
If you want the holistic wellness
side of things or meditation
type things, you can do that.
So that's what's unique
about, uh, Bangkok.
And even though my wife Kam, she's from
the North, she loves living in Bangkok.
We, you know, when we do travel or we go
and do events in Phuket and the islands,
we like it, but we, we, we always
can't wait to come back to Bangkok.
What I also like about, about Bangkok
is that you've got people who live
here, the expat community, and you
also have a large, uh, tourism as well.
So in terms of business operations,
we get these waves of, um, the,
the tourist type customers.
But then we know when it's not
tourist season, we continue to.
Get customers and allows
us to build a community.
One of the concerns as from a
business point of view, if you are
on these islands, the community's
not gonna be a long lasting because
majority of them are gonna be
people who are just on holiday.
So yeah, I, I see us being
here long term, uh, and
continuing doing what we do.
Now you speak with some business
owners, whether they became friends
of yours 'cause they come here often
or, or not, but uh, I'm curious,
are there any common mistakes
that you see business owners make?
From what I've picked up on over
the years, it does seem that maybe
not employing the right people or
maybe in some instances rely on
relying more on non-Thai, which
adds additional costs and things.
You know, and that's one of the
things I've discovered living
in Thailand, in Bangkok, that
it does seem that the sort of.
Maybe not as much now, uh, with
the younger generation, but maybe
in the past there seems to be this
default belief that anyone outside of
Thailand is better than a Thai person.
Like for, for example, the yoga,
uh, classes, and I've been to
yoga retreats with, with Kam and
yoga studios and they'll have like
guest, um, non Thai yoga teachers.
And this, this is just one
example that I've experienced, and
these classes have this big buzz
around it and people wanna come.
But then the, the Thai uh, teachers
who, in my opinion, and from Kam's
opinion as well, who are amazing,
don't tend to get that, uh,
sort of hype and then followers.
And, uh, I, and from what I understand,
it's that people default thinking a
non-Thai person is better in some way.
From my experience and the people we
are working for us, I have never had a
problem finding a Thai person who can
do exactly, if not more than I want.
So, yeah.
So that, that actually blows my mind,
you know, and I think it's great.
And that's one of the things we always
do as a business, is everything we do
is to help Thai people as well as, of
course, expats and non-Thai people.
But, and that's where Kam comes in.
She knows what's needed or
what people are looking for,
what people, uh, people want.
Yeah, it's a great point.
It reminds me a lot of, when you were
saying how Bangkok has, or Thailand
has a place for everyone, there's
different things you can have the
high class lifestyle, whatever.
Well, it's the same sort of thing I
think with people is that some people
might have hired someone who wasn't
good, whether that be a foreigner or
a Thai, and then they over generalize,
not realizing that they've just only
maybe found people in a certain area
or in a certain network they haven't
actually explored and realized.
Yeah.
Uh, there's a ton of talent.
You have to know where to look for it.
Yeah.
You know, I see.
In terms of marketing, I see
some of, uh, you know, those.
I can, I think of one client
who's, who's, uh, been here and she
does, she pulls her adventures on
social media and they're editing.
And the time or the skills she
puts into this just for herself.
And even, uh, Instagram and social media
are locked, so it's not even open to
the public, it's just for her friends.
I see that and go, oh my God, that is,
like, that's high level content creation
that she's just doing as a passion.
So, uh, yeah, I think it's great.
And that's, if we do expand, um,
like in person stuff, in, you know,
satellite venues or, uh, instructors
or facilitators, my priority would
be to get Thai staff, Thai people.
One, because they already have a
deep understanding of things like,
you know, meditation and, uh, you
know, spirituality and things which
can come into play with what we do.
So yeah, I think it's great.
Yeah.
Is there anything that we didn't
discuss that you wish we had?
Yeah, I just wanna clarify my.
My, um, the way I feel about what
others assume are competitors.
So if you look at the gym world, right?
So you've got CrossFit dedicated
gyms, you've got gyms that, you know,
maybe just dedicated to high rocks,
which is a big thing at the moment.
Then you've got sort of the overall
maybe lifestyle should call like
virgin Active and fitness first.
And then you've got dedicated places,
which I love, like the muscle factories.
I don't dunno if you know much
about them and bar the owner.
He's, I, I love his content.
What he puts out there, it's no frills.
It's straight to the point.
And he, he's the way, he, he markets
himself and lets the gym facility,
uh, do the marketing for him.
Yeah.
Uh, you know exactly what you get.
I tend to like and
appreciate these specialist.
Businesses, and that's what we are
now, does these other gyms, does the
CrossFit gyms worry and think Virgin
Active or Fitness First as a competitor?
Okay.
Even though it's same industry, they
might have very similar equipment.
They might certainly have the same
type of qualified staff, but because
they're differentiated in what the
specialist in or what they're experts
in, um, it's sort of not a worry.
The people who love Virgin Active,
who go to, you know, they have multi
multitude of classes, Pilates, exercise,
dance, or some dancing the other day,
you know, that's the gym we go to.
Um, CrossFit gyms are
not worried about that.
Uh, in fact, like what my point
was earlier, the people that.
Care about health and fitness.
Uh, gonna help people to discover
CrossFit gyms or Muscle Factory.
You know, someone who goes Virgin
Active, who then gets really into the
bodybuilding or power lifting side,
they're looking for the next level.
They would go to bats Muscle Factory,
and that's the way I see what we are.
We are.
We've avoided looking like this
high-end, expensive wellness thing.
In fact, I wanna avoid that completely
because we're giving, uh, customers
tools that they don't ever need us.
So we don't try to dress things up.
But these other places and hotels
and gyms and other venues popping
up, offering cold exposure and
ice baths and sauna, I think
is a net gain for everyone.
Mainly for the clients.
As long as it's the, the
safety is at the forefront.
So I think that's what
I'd like to clarify.
And um, like I said, from day
one, we're called breath inspired.
We're not called ice bath inspired.
Uh, the longevity for us is breath
work, training, coaching, development,
the things we do like, um, Wim
Hof Method, oxygen Advantage,
which is sports performance.
Uh, we've trained some of the top
CrossFit athletes in Asia with that.
Uh, we also do instructor
training with that.
So if you wanna be an instructor
in Oxygen Advantage, I'm the
only master instructor in
Asia, so we do that as well.
Then we've got guests, speakers
such as Dan Brulé, uh, they call
him the Bruce Lee of Breathwork.
So we purposely stick to what
we want to teach, uh, without
diluting our service offering.
And I don't even like to think of
competitors because if we have 1000
true fans and what we do and we're
changing people's lives for the better.
I don't really worry about what
other businesses are doing.
I just worry more about the
health and safety of clients.
Absolutely.
Well,
Stu I really appreciate
the
time today.
I, I'd love if you could just share
if people wanna learn more Yeah.
About breath inspired,
uh, or connect with you.
Uh, where should they go?
Yeah.
So the, the best way to find us,
you know, you can go to breath
inspired.com, uh, the bottom of
the page, we've got the, our line
link so you can message us online.
We're on Facebook, we're on Instagram.
Uh, so that's the best way to
reach out on the website as well.
We have a listing of all our events,
special events and our regular stuff.
But if you have any questions about
what we do or how we can help,
I'm happy to help you as well.
And, uh, even corporate training, team
building, you brought a team of people.
We don't really promote that at the
moment just because we're so busy.
Uh, so reach out if, if something
we've said or we do sort of resonates
or be just curious, let us know.
Go on our website's, got a
contact form there, and message
us through any social media.
Awesome.
Yeah.
Thank you so much for the time.
I really do appreciate it.
Yeah.
Thank you.
Cheers.