Embodied Relationship Mastery with Stefanos Sifandos

In this episode of the Love Sex and Leadership podcast, Aaron dives into embodied relationship mastery with guest Stefanos Sifandos, a renowned men's coach. They discuss the concepts of relationship as a spiritual practice, honesty in partnerships, and the continual process of growth and mastery in relationships. Stefanos shares his personal journey and struggles with intimacy and how he's learned to address conflicts in his relationships. The conversation touches on themes like creating and sticking to relationship agreements, seeking external support when needed, and maintaining regular check-ins to ensure healthy communication. The dialogue also explores maintaining sexual polarity, addressing inner wounds, integrating primal urges in a healthy way, and creating a balance between personal growth and relationship needs. They emphasize the importance of breath, sound, and movement as foundational practices for individual and relational exploration. Stefanos concludes by sharing practical tips for couples on navigating challenges and enhancing intimacy.
Check out more on Aaron at www.aaronkleinerman.com
Check out more on Stefanos at https://www.stefanossifandos.com/

What is Love, Sex, and Leadership?

Welcome to the Love, Sex, and Leadership Podcast, where insightful dialogues and transformative teachings await. Join Aaron Kleinerman on a journey to explore the intersections of love, sexuality, and leadership. Through candid conversations with experts and live audio teachings, Aaron creates a safe space for self-discovery and empowerment. Embrace your true power, awaken your soul's wisdom, and live an inspired life as a natural, intuitive, and heart-centered leader. Dive into the mysteries of the universe and unlock the secrets to mastering the human experience. Tune in and embark on a path of profound transformation.

Ep - 16 Embodied Relationship Mastery (Stefanos Sifandos)
[00:00:00] Welcome to the Love Sex and Leadership podcast where you can discover simple tantric teachings to embody your true power awaken your soul's wisdom and live an inspired life as a natural intuitive and heart centered leader
So we're discussing today embodied relationship mastery with my friend Stefanos, who I feel blessed and honored and privileged to have joining this Conscious Conversations. These are a number of conversations I've been doing over the last few months on the release of my new book, The Embodied Man.
And yeah, very excited to dive into what this means for you and what this feels for you and how you show up in the world with the book. Mastery inside of relationships and yeah, when I, when I see you in the world, I see you as a powerful men's coach. That's really how I see you showing up. And I, you know, I know your partner, Christine from many years ago, [00:01:00] um, when I was living in LA and I really celebrate and, you know, having the new baby coming along too.
Congratulations to your brother. It's beautiful. And, uh, great to have you here with joining us. Yeah, likewise, great to be here, man. So let's just dive right in. When, when you think of mastery inside of relationships, what's been some of your journey with relationships, where it's been your, your learnings, your fallings, and really where you've Come to see what I call relationship as a spiritual practice.
Yeah. Showing myself fully in relationship. So really being honest with, you know, my desires, my dreams, my aspirations, you know, my fantasies within relationship, um, you know, what really hurts and what doesn't, and that's been a real sticking point for most of my life is not being able to be very honest in my relationships and not really saying or expressing how I feel and what's really going on for me and really suppressing that and hiding that and as a, as a.[00:02:00]
a compensation, you know, really diverting that energy elsewhere and putting pleasure back in my body because I just didn't want to face the pain of what I was experiencing, whether it was my perception of neglect from a partner or the fact that my feelings started to change. I just couldn't really be honest in that relationship, you know, and in, in many relationships throughout through all of my twenties and my early thirties.
Um, and that was a real struggle for me. And so the mastery component. Is firstly for me, it's a continual process. It's an evolving process, right? It's not something that, um, uh, happens immediately. It is. It is something that, uh, I think just keeps unraveling over time. And, you know, often, the more we know, the less we know.
And I find that You know, to be very true, particularly in my relationship with Christine, where, you know, we're very committed and dedicated to, um, the growth of our own lives and also the container itself, the relationship itself as a third entity, [00:03:00] and that means having really real conversations, really, um, honest, sometimes brutally honest conversations around where we're at and what that looks like and feels like for us, but with, with a, an intention to keep holding steady and to keep, um, you know, I wake up every morning and I, I, I choose to be in the relationship.
I actively make that choice. And, and that for me is part of the mastery as well. Whereas before it was just, I was very, I would neglect myself and neglect the relationship and really not prioritize it. I would say I would prioritize it. But I wasn't really prioritizing it. And so there's, there's a, there's a relief and a freedom that comes with really choosing the relationship.
But I think that's, that's part of my personal mastery and relationship as well, is, is really choosing the relationship, knowing that I'm not going anywhere, that Christine's not going anywhere, sure that, that may change. And we're not attached to that. We're, we're more concerned with, are we showing up in our most [00:04:00] fullest selves every moment that we possibly can.
Hmm. Yeah, I love that. And what I'm hearing in that is actually consciously choosing every day almost to have a remarrying, a re celebrating, a re coming together. And, um, you know, my last relationship, uh, kind of completed mainly because of COVID about, uh, just at the end of last year with, um, my, my partner going back to Australia and me not being able to go there.
And, you know, it's, it's a place of like letting relationship be. The, the growth for what I heard you say before, like really honoring the pain. And, and I love to even speak into that more because I think sometimes people get into relationship and then the honeymoon and they're alive and everything is good and then.
Oh, First fight happens, first thing happens, and then they're running the other way. So especially like male bodies who are confronting that. Just love to hear you speak into that a little bit more. Like [00:05:00] really confronting that pain as a place for deepening in relationship and where you've learned along the way with that.
Yeah, I mean, from my experience, we usually play in the extremes of either fighting really hard, and everything that comes with that, with the need to control, generally coming from fear, fear of being seen, fear of being wrong, fear of losing control, and so we fight really, really hard for that, or we don't know what to do.
Yeah. Go the other way and when conflict arises, we shut down, we stonewall, we run, we ignore it, we pretend everything's okay, you know, we become people pleasers, whatever that looks like, it's different for everyone. And for me, I would oscillate generally between both. You know, my early childhood was around, um, people pleasing and my, um, adolescence and adulthood and early adulthood was really around just violence and intimidation and [00:06:00] control, all from fear though, all from fear.
And so in my relationships, I would be very volatile and play both of those playing both of those realms. And instead of actually dealing with the conflict, I'd either want to fight with the conflict or use it as an excuse to. You know, demonstrate my power and not, not in a healthy way, in any capacity, more in an unhealthy way coming from fear, or I would completely ignore it and I wouldn't address it.
And that would build resentment and frustration in the relationship. And then what happens is you get to a point where it hits boiling point and you just can't avoid it. I couldn't, I couldn't avoid it. And so, you know, I'm in this pattern of massive volatility, massive blowouts in my relationship. So I was just mimicking what, happened in my childhood, what I witnessed in my parents because it was familiar.
And even though it was unhealthy, it was safe because it was familiar. So until I really dealt with those core wounds and, and that pain and that trauma and that abuse, and [00:07:00] really, really moved it through my body in a somatic way, um, and connected to it, had a, had a deeper communion with it. It wasn't really until then that I was able to break those patterns and be okay with conflict.
Like even now, even in, in, in my relationship, when, when, When I have a pattern of, if I'm in conflict with Christine, I will sometimes allude to, Oh, well, maybe this, you know, um, this isn't for us, or maybe we, you know, we should go to a different relationship. No, none of me means that none of me wants that.
None of me is asking for that. That's all childhood wounding. That's that little boy that just says, you know what, I'm just going to, I'm just going to check out, I'm going to leave, I'm going to go hide. Right. So we have an agreement in our relationship that. I don't do that because that triggers her. She doesn't like that.
Not that it triggers her. It's just, it's, it's upsetting and it's not good for me. It's not healthy for me to reinforce that point. Right. So it becomes important that, you know, for me personally, I'm keeping myself accountable to these patterns that are just really keeping me in the past. [00:08:00] Mm hmm. Yeah. And in that place, when you notice that pattern coming up and you notice that, you know, what I see people who were almost really almost addicted to the place of growth, sometimes they end up staying in relationship beyond the point that something healthy and they're like, Oh, I keep growing.
I keep growing. I keep growing. And that's beautiful and amazing. So what would you say is the differentiation between Noticing where that's the pattern or the trigger that's coming up between the two of you is, you know, giving you a chance to look at the old patterning and the old, you know, childhood wounds and the place of where it's like, okay, you know, enough is enough.
And, you know, I've learned this lesson enough times and I need to, you know, break free because I worked with a lot of, uh, especially couples in that way. Where sometimes the compatibility just isn't there anymore. And I'd love to hear your thoughts on that as well. Yeah, for sure. I mean, there's, there's elements of that that exists, I guess, in every relationship where there is a renewal [00:09:00] that's required, right.
And, you know, Christina and I are pretty new. I would say, think that we're pretty new in our relationship, you know, nearly four years, but it's still quite new. And so very new, actually, from my perspective. And so there's going to be times, continuous times that, that we are reevaluating the dynamic of our relationship.
And I guess to answer that question really directly, if the thing keeps coming up, it's probably not being readdressed. It's not being addressed. And so if it's a repetitive issue and a repetitive pain point, it's just not being addressed. And therefore there's more quote unquote growth, um, that can transpire in that space.
Now, how we do that is we figure it out ourselves. Yes. And, and we figure it out with each other and we also have support Aaron. So we, you know, we, we. consistently working with coaches or guides or people that can see the forest through the trees, right? Like I practice what I preach. I'm a coach in the space and in the world in many, many fronts in many respects.
And I have people in my corner as well that can help [00:10:00] me see what I can't see because I'm often too emotionally entangled in my own shit. Um, and even, even in the, in the relationship with Christine, because there's just, there's so much at stake, right? There's a care and the love and the, you know, the, and the, and the baby and all these things.
Um, but. Having support really, it helps, it helps just provide so much more clarity and it really fast tracks growth. Yeah, the, uh, and I celebrate you and actually being a coach that's seeking out other, other coaches. And I, I know I'm very much the same in my own world. And so thank you for, for that. And.
actually doing and speaking the words and what you're showing up as, you know, the other piece I'd love to move into is around polarity, you know, and also the deeper layers of sexual polarity that happens when you are living with somebody. And then, you know, and now what you're moving into with a baby coming along the way and all the different, Caveats.
And I know Christine's a [00:11:00] powerful woman and a business owner and, you know, a creator and, and where those dynamics play into, like I know of my, my last partner, Raven, like she's a very strong headed woman that had a very strong opinions, but there was a deep place with her that was able to let go of her masculine at times and actually deeply surrender.
And that allowed for spaciousness to happen inside of our relating. So I'd love to hear like how those. Polarities, especially when it comes to keeping that polarity alive with sexual chemistry, uh, is deepening or expanding within the two of you as you're growing and evolving together. Yeah. And as we're, you know, our family dynamic is changing as well, and there's a deeper level of responsibility and varied responsibility and a lot of novelty in that as well.
There's a lot of newness that requires our attention. So the way that we, that we really addressed that and deal with that initially is. Through very open and transparent conversation about it. No, we, we want to, we want to talk about the pink elephant in the room and we don't just want to [00:12:00] talk about it.
Of course, this is one of the reasons why we have a coach is to help us stay connected in that way. Right. And, and create intimacy and connection through different practices. Cause you know, sometimes it's interesting, right? Like. We, as coaches, we have lots of tools and lots of practices, but when it comes to utilizing it for ourselves, for some very strange reasons, we're not as proficient at doing it.
I mean, it never happens that way, bro. So I honestly, I just, I'd rather just pay someone. That can really support me and I don't, I don't mean that facetiously, but really can again, see the forest to the trees that helps us navigate that. And, and part of it is putting some structure in it. Part of it is really helping us unpack our deeper wounds that, that lend themselves to, um, To the polarity being off.
See, I have a fairly firm belief that [00:13:00] before it becomes a masculine feminine or a polarity issue, one of sexual magnetism and attraction. What hinders that greatly is unaddressed, unresolved wounds. And when we reside in our shadows, we can't access the The freedom that comes in sexual polarity. And so for me, it's not, and it's not, I'm being super clear.
It's not me spending hours and hours every day in the shadow and having to live in the shadow and addicted to that. Not at all. And I've been there and I've done that and too much, I've gone to places within self that no human being should go. And, um, you know, I don't, I don't, I'm not fond of visiting that.
I don't wear it as a badge of honor too often. Um, but, but really it does help me free myself in. The intimacy that I have, because one of my core wounds or has been is that fear of intimacy and fear of being seen. So I hid in novelty and I hid in variety in, in sexual novelty and sexual variety. In other words, different women, lots of women, different times, all of that.
And really that was me running away from myself. And so [00:14:00] when I have a woman that really sees me and cares for me and in such nonjudgmental, compassionate ways, it's very challenging to run away from that. Without causing massive rupture. And my intention is to not cause rupture. And so I want to lean into that.
So we lean into that intimacy and we share and we experiment and we try new things, um, whether it's just sexually or just even emotional intimacy as well, which often, as you know, can lead to deeper sexual intimacy and it's just an ongoing, uh, practice. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And that, that practice of actually showing up and being willing.
And, and, you know, the other piece I heard you say is kind of before Tristine, it sounds like you, you had a lot of women around you and I can relate and different times in my life where it's like, I've really gone deep with one and then I've kind of opened my field and there's others around. So. You know, to somebody listening who can feel maybe that desire to be a father and to journey in deeper, [00:15:00] like, what were some of the things that you noticed in yourself that really gave you a deeper permission to dive deep with one?
And also to continue to stay, because naturally that, you know, the freedom lover, I'm sure, has re reemerged for you. Much. We'd love, love to hear the thoughts. So for that freedom lover and how you worked with that energy as well. Cause I know that what it means to, you know, yeah, no, I continue to work with that energy and I continue to remind myself where that comes from.
And I also continue to check in with myself and what my needs are as well. Like really genuinely, what are my needs and do I need to have, um, uh, you know, uh, a different conversation than I have been having and as I check in with myself, um, You know, at this point, the answer is no, and I'm, I'm deeply connected to our relationship and where we are in the exploration of that.
Let's also have an idea of, um, you know, when we're speaking about monogamy and non [00:16:00] monogamy, I'm a believer in organic or natural monogamy. I'm not in a belief. I'm not a believer of forced monogamy. And force monogamy mean just a, you know, institutional monogamy or, um, uh, monogamy for the sake of economic arrangements.
And so I'm just not, this is, doesn't align with me, right. I'm in agreeance of, I'm in, in alignment with, sorry, of. Uh, if it's two people, two people choosing each other because they really want to explore what does intimacy look like in this container and defining that intimacy from them. You know, I've been exposed to so many different container types, relationship container types over the years, and none of them are wrong or right.
I think some generally work better than others, and that's got to do with so many factors, like individual factors and collective factors. I think the collective consciousness of our humanity, um, is still working through a lot of shit. And a lot of shadow, right? And so are individuals. Um, and we often go into relationship being really charged and [00:17:00] really wounded.
And we actually attract from that place. Um, and the staying power is working through that. And again, it's not at the, at the cost of your happiness or your joy. You don't stay in it just for the sake of staying it because you're an enduro and you're, you know, in your personality patterns, the five personality patterns is a great book if you're familiar with it.
But one of the archetypes is the endure and, and in that it's, I'll just endure difficulty and challenge for the sake of enduring it because, you know, that's what I grew up with essentially. And that's one of the patterns that I formed called patterns of my life. No, not for that, but because there's real deep value there and there's deep freedom in exploring the, um, challenges that come with that type of container, right, as is deep freedom in exploring, uh, the variety of non monogamous containers as well.
So for me, it's, it's how do I. Personally create novelty and variety in our container. And how do we do that together? I should say, how do we do that together? And not only how do we do that together, [00:18:00] but what's really important to us in certain moments and what phases are we in as well, because we run on different.
We're running different phases. We're human beings with different backgrounds, right? Now we all are. And so being really mindful and attentive to that, it's the commitment to the management and commitments, simply put commitment and willingness are two big parts that, that are played in this, in this dynamic, but the commitment for me is very real and the willingness for me is very real.
I mean, it is the same for Christine as well. And that's what keeps us in a place of if something doesn't feel right, let's, Let's explore that. And if something feels great, let's explore that too. And do you feel like with that level of truthfulness and transparency that you're able to really stay in integrity from both your consciousness and your animal?
Cause the thing I see come up sometimes, you know, I thought this, you know, at times when I've really gone deep into, you know, what would look like more monogamy in my [00:19:00] relationship is that there's different voices happening inside. It's like. Am I letting that animal fully express and be there or am I denying a part just so I can, you know, appease the, the, the blueprint of what this relationship is supposed to look like.
And yeah, I would love to hear how you work with that. Yeah. And sometimes that unravels, right? Like there's a part of us as humans that, and we can call it the primal part of the animal part that is very natural to us. Right. And, and I think judging that for me, judging that part of me in the past has not served well at all at all it's, it's done so much damage and it's, it's, it's turned me to, to shadow behavior, you know, shadow eroticism and, and I, and, and I have made a commitment to myself that that's not who I am.
Like, I will not cheat in this relationship because I have a very. You know, for lack of a better term, rich background in that. And that's, it's, it's caused so much pain in my life and in the, in, in others that it's just not who I want to be and not who I am. And so for [00:20:00] me, it's not about being unfaithful.
If I have to reorientate or I feel I need to reorientate our relationship agreements, then I want to have that conversation with Christine. Um, until that point, it's about what we are in the container and how we show up. And yeah, like there's that part of me. That absolutely, you know, sees other women, I'm a heterosexual, sees other women and says, wow, they're so beautiful.
The appreciation for, for physical beauty is very different for me to what it once was. What it once was, was, was really objectification. It really was hyper selfish and really was goal orientated. Whereas now the appreciation that I have, because I've come to release so much shame within myself, body shame, emotional shame, relationship shame around myself, that I can see people differently.
And so it's not that those, um, I mean, call them animal urges, call them primal urges don't exist within me. The way I transmute and circulate and move that energy as well. And, you know, over the years I've, I've engaged in [00:21:00] so many different practices that have given me insight into the human condition, into consciousness that allow me to, to interact very differently with these energies, very differently to how I once acted.
Wow. I celebrate that. And, you know, I think it's a, it's a necessity, especially what I heard you saying is really the, um, being able to move and transmute the energy alive inside the body and not meeting always. to be active, you know, in the sexual urge, but to actually use it for a, um, creative impulse for our inspiration for what we're here to offer and to be and to show up in the world as.
Um, you know, another piece that I, I dive fairly heavily into in the book is really the, the contrasexual side and especially how that comes up. And when I'm saying contrasexual, like The feminine and you interacting with the masculine and her, which often in a heteronormal [00:22:00] relationship is normally where a lot of the issues reside, because the feminine and male bodies isn't as mature and developed and, and grown up and the masculine and female bodies, you know, vice versa.
So how does some of those dynamics show up into your, you know, relationship and within yourself, as well as with Christine with great difficulty at the beginning? Such difficulty, such difficulty. I would, I would say to things, I would say things to her like, Oh, it's horrible. I would say stop being a fucking man or stop trying to out man me.
Or I would just be so immature. Um, so immature. I would be so in my shadow feminine and in my shadow masculine. Um, but you raise it, you raise a very valid point. You know, I really, I'll just bring this book. I'll just show you because I've just finished it. Actually, I've got, I'm like three pages away. This is a really interesting book.
I don't know if you're familiar with it. Um, it's, it's quite complex and very much rooted in depth psychology. And in this, this author and he's a [00:23:00] psychologist as well. I'm pretty sure maybe a psychiatrist. I can't remember Gareth S Hill. Um, really speaks to this access of static masculine and, um, dynamic feminine and, uh, dynamic masculine and static feminine as well, you know, and really saying that these psychological axes, axes live within all of us.
And I really resonate with that work. And for me, it's a, definitely an ongoing, um, process, but here's what, here's the approach that I take. If to me, my natural core essence for me. is more masculine for all the reasons or whatever reasons. What I want to do is cultivate a healthy practice of healthy masculinity.
Embodiment of healthy masculinity. And why I say that is because if I focus on that, let me actually go back a bit. Sometimes I'm sure this has probably happened with you, not to assume and tell [00:24:00] me if I'm wrong, but you'll have women that will come to you and say, how do I make my man more feminine or he's too hard?
Or how can I, how can I help him be more feminine? And really what they're asking is. They really just want to be seen and understood and heard in the way that they can relate to themselves. We all do that. It's the same with the five love languages. Like if I'm physical touch, I'm naturally going to be physical and touchy with others because that's the way I like to be loved.
So I just naturally love them that way. For me, if my core essence is masculine, I want to work on that healthy masculinity at a deeper, deeper level. I really just refine my personhood. Right, whatever that looks like for me, what I found in my life is naturally the feminine parts of me will also develop as a result faster than trying to work on a part of me that is Um, uh, maybe a little more foreign to me, let's just say, right.
And so that focus on what my core essence is and really cultivating that I've found has worked really well [00:25:00] for me. So what I hear you saying is actually a deeper dive into the masculine principles and as a result, you're a feminine growing and maturing more. Yeah, it's beautiful. Um, yeah, I mean, I. I would agree to that to a degree.
I mean, I come from a maritime military background and it was in a very alpha oriented world. And, you know, one of the chapters in the embodied man book is called awakening the inner queen and, you know, cause I feel like that's a piece that what I've experienced is the more that. I dove into that polarity of my feminine.
The stronger, the more clear, the more virile, the more you know, clear in how I was showing up in my masculinity. Came up online more. And you know, witnessing in my last re relationship with Raven, who had a lot of men in her life before that were saying, I want you to be more in your feminine and be, and she was just always more in the masculine.
Then actually showing up a bit more in [00:26:00] that you could say dark, masculine, penetrative power. Let the feminine surrender more. So, and I'd like to lean into that place as well, because I feel like in relationship or even any type of interpersonal dynamic, there's this part of the masculine and male bodies that sometimes they're afraid of being that very, Powerful dominant one because of the all of the judgments and the shame and the ridicule and the blame that gets thrown upon that.
So how do you navigate with those more, you could say, ravishing energies or penetrative power? Into, you know, in a healthy, mature way into relationship. Well, I mean, I allow them to be seen, uh, and I ask for them to be seen. Right. That, because that's a very natural part of what I'm saying. Well, you know, what I'm hearing you say as well is just that, you know, it's the, it's the Baha'i faith.
There's just many paths to the top of the mountain, right? Like there's, and the path that I described is one, the path that you described is definitely another. And the path that I described may or may not work for others. And the [00:27:00] path that you described may or may not work for others. And there's many others as well, but to answer your question around the penetrative part, um, of, of me or of, of masculinity is I, I, I have to be, um, Here's the thing.
I won't let that part come out. If I don't feel relationally, emotionally safe. In other words, if I feel I'm going to be judged, I'm going to be critiqued and or humiliated. Chances are, I'm not bringing that part out in, in, in full expression. And so this is, this is where trust and, and creating and developing trust and relationship is so important for us to be You know, be more expressive.
Now, the other part to that is I have every opportunity to not be attached to the possible rejection or humiliation or abandonment or anything that may come from my full expression, just being my full expression and that then becomes my work as well. And so I'm, I'm aware of both and I, and I do my best to be in both.
And, and I don't [00:28:00] always get it right. Sometimes I, I have spent 30 plus years of my life hiding. It's, it's, uh, in different ways, it's a very easy pattern to engage in. And sometimes I catch myself in that. So my work is to, to be more open with that and say, Hey, Christine, I'm, I'm, I can feel myself hiding.
And here's, here's what's happening. You know, my request is that I want you to see me in something. Do you, you know, can you do that? It's very sensitive for me. Can you do that without, you know, Um, judgment, or the other thing is, which I've done as well as is internally. I'm like, fuck it, I'm going to be this because that's who I'm going to be.
And however, it's received, it's received, and I'm going to deal with the outcomes. And so it's, it's experimenting and exploring all of it and more. Yeah. One of the things I just heard you say is that you kind of create a context to allow some of the more, you could say tenderness or vulnerabilities or the things inside that there isn't as much.
security around and what I hear in that dynamic and what I often witness in [00:29:00] these couple dynamics is that the women are the female body saying, Oh, I want to feel you more, feel you more. And then in that moment, when the man finally expresses, that requires that female body to shift to a place of witnessing without judgment and loving, loving acceptance, more masculine oriented characteristics.
And then if that doesn't happen, then that tenderness in the man just shrinks up even stronger and stronger. And you hear many men, I'm sure you've had that where it's like, Oh, I'm never going to be vulnerable again. Look what happened last time, you know? Yeah. And so, so what, what do you say to that man to Let that come out more to let that be seen and not be judged and ridiculed.
Is it creating a safe conversation dynamic with the partner? Is it, you know, one of the reasons I love men's work is because I find when men can lean into each other, there's a growing up of that feminine that doesn't happen anywhere else because the feminine inside the male body [00:30:00] actually trusts the masculine more in male bodies than in female bodies.
And so to a man who's coming with that, like. And this woman's saying, feel, I want to feel you more. What, what, what does he do? How does he show up? Is it, is it leaning into men? Is it leaning into himself? Is it leaning into the relationship more? What would you say? All of the above. And for me, it's in this order, self men relationship, because, you know, practice makes progress.
And so lean into self, get to know self, try and figure it out yourself. Solitude, silence, stillness, self reliance is for me, uh, uh, an imperative virtue, uh, for every man, for every human being, actually, then be witnessed in your vulnerability, in your truth. In what you are in the presence of other men that can hold that for you and be non judgmental and compassionate.
There's deep healing in that deep, deep healing to be witnessed by what is familiar to us, right? That male body that is familiar to us and to, to really be held in that and gain a practice around that. So that expressing your truth becomes more [00:31:00] organic and natural. Um, and then from there, you know, like bring it to your partner.
It doesn't have to be fully formed. Um, but bring it, bring it to your partner. And again, I mean, I say that's the order, but that order can happen very quickly. It doesn't have to happen over months or years or even weeks. It's, it's, it can happen very fast, but my first port of call is me. I always want to go to me.
Yeah. Sometimes I'll skip the men and it can go directly to my partner and I can bring whatever it is directly to her. I'm going to assess that like some level of interpretation and discernment is really necessary. And so, you know, I want to empower people to make their own choices. We're all looking for a fucking rigid formula or a three step process and this and that.
Sometimes you've just got to figure it out. Lean into your fear and fucking do it. Like, I mean, that's, that's honestly, that just the masculine part of me coming out saying, like, we just got to do it, like lean in, do it, and be done with it. That's it. You're going to figure it out. Get shit done. You remind me of, uh, You [00:32:00] know, the world I grew up in, one of my good friends was this short Italian guy who's like, never done a personal development course, like, we're good, good buddies, he, you know, runs a lot of like, heavy lift equipment, installs gas mains, and he's like, bro, I fucking love you, I don't know what the fuck you do, but like, obviously people like it, but it's just such this, you know, the Boston in me, this very like, clear cut, like, straightforward, I, I love that approach, and I love the, The capacity to actually bring that into these conversations.
Cause I see entirely so many men that just feel like their fucking balls have been cut off. And they don't know how to step up with strength and fortitude and connection and actually stand in the integrity of who they are. And at the end of the day, what I see in relationship is that when a man comes in that way, and it's not coming from arrogance, but it's actually coming from an embodied sense inside.
And the feminine is like, Oh, Oh, fine. Then I can fucking let go. Yeah. I mean, I, I really align with Jack Donovan's work around, um, [00:33:00] uh, he, he calls it four tactical virtues. I added one and, and I, as connectivity, but, uh, for the, the four technical virtues that he mentions is strength, courage, uh, mastery and honor.
And, and I think that, you know, specifically the strength and courage piece is so important. We just, we have to have the strength and the courage and the resilience and the fortitude to lean into the thing. That's really disconnected. That's really uncomfortable and that we've been avoiding because there's so much, there's so much mastery and wizardry and magic in that, but we just don't go there because it feels like it's too much for us.
And so I love those two last words, the magic tree and the wizardry. And one of the first things I heard you say is that kind of three way connection with God inside relationship. You know, to me, I, I teach a lot in this field of Tantra and I feel like you kind of do as well, not calling it Tantra. has its own, you know, series of challenges that I, I have consciously choosing to [00:34:00] lean into to help redefine it in the world, which sometimes I wish I wasn't fucking doing that, but I damn.
But the, the place of, of Tantra really that, that That deep divinity that comes together inside a sacred union when inner union is present. So what, you know, deep rituals and practices do you invite into, you know, your relationship that really bring about that three way connection to God, to the divine?
And, and let's love to hear, you know, what you have to share on that. Yeah, the foundations of the triangle that we use or the triad rather is a breath, sound and movement, right? So that triad of breath, sound and movement becomes a foundation for our explorative practices. Um, as individuals and, um, as a couple, for me as an individual, breath, sound and movement is my triad.
Of how I navigate through the world and see the world. Um, you know, my own sexuality, my own sense of self, my own [00:35:00] personal expression, and then bringing that into the relationship as well. You know, we also create and allocate space. I'm a very, um, I have a lot on, I have a lot on, and I'm in a, I'm in a mode in my life and a phase in my life where I'm, I'm, I'm deeply creative.
I have been for some time, but really, really creating a lot in the world. I have multiple businesses. Um, I, I work with many people. I have a lot of clients and I'm just, I'm very connected to my Dharma, connected to what I'm creating in the world. And as a result of that, I can be drained. I can feel sometimes overwhelmed.
I can put my relationship with Christine on the back burner because again, like when we're talking about sexual energy, like there is so much creation energy that I'm putting out into the world that I can be okay to not have sex. I also have that. Monk archetype within me as well sometimes. And so it's all about balancing that and really checking in with each other.
So, you know, some of the practices that we have is we allocate space, uh, on a, on a daily and weekly basis to really [00:36:00] be together, allowed to organically unfold. Some of that will be. Again, breath work, movement work together in synchro, in, in, um, synchronization, um, uh, gentle touch. Like we look at, uh, I don't have my, um, my bookcases behind my backdrop here, but there's a great book.
I think it's called Cupid's Poison Arrow. And, and, and what the author speaks to a great deal there is about, um, uh, carezza as a practice. And so it's all about, um, Um, bonding behaviors or bonding, um, without necessarily, without necessarily going to sexual penetration. Now, I don't completely align with that.
Interesting experiment though, really is hormonally and relationally and emotionally, it's super interesting, fascinating, but put that aside for a moment, you know, there's a lot that we open up the space where we can just connect with each other physically. Whatever that looks like massaging clothes on clothes off, hugging, holding, and allowing that to move from there.
And sometimes if we're talking about, you know, [00:37:00] raw unbridled sex, then that becomes different. That becomes a taking that becomes a ravishing, that becomes a surrendering, that becomes call it a quickie, whatever. Right. But we, we allow those energies to sort of. Really play out and do our best to, um, honor them within each other.
Right. And as opposed to, Oh, does he want this? Or does she want that? Or we just, we sort of try and lean in, do the thing. And if it doesn't feel right, or if it doesn't feel, you know, in alignment in that moment, express, we vocalize, there's a dance, man. Like it's sometimes uncomfortable, but. You know, it's becoming more comfortable.
That's for sure. Well, that's, that's good. I guess, I guess four years in you're, you're learning a little bit more about each other every day. You know what, what I heard you saying, and I really celebrate, I would kind of reference as love appointments. You know, I talked with couples a lot. It's like, okay, you know, Tuesday night at seven, we're going to.
Be together for two hours and, or, [00:38:00] you know, an hour and a half. And especially if it's busy entrepreneurs and people that are busy, if that time isn't there. Then it's just, it goes on. And then, you know, you've been a week, a month, you know, six months. And it's like sex, what, what, what intimacy, what, what was that?
I remember that that was like those first six months together, you know? And, and I, unfortunately, I think that's what happens a lot in relationship. And, you know, I, I kind of call it like actually coming together. in sexual union, whether there is penetrative sex or whether that is, you know, just deep intimacy, it's a practice.
It's a practice and it's a commitment to that practice and recognizing, you know, the healing modality of that as a gateway to deeper intimacy and connection. Um, so I, I love the way you are, you know, forming that and, you know, to, to a couple that maybe is listening or people that are wanting to bring some more of that mastery in their relationships.
What sort of framework would [00:39:00] you say would work to not feel too overwhelming, but also just enough to really bring some intimacy back together for them? Um, there's a, there's a, there's a beautiful process that Christine and I created based on our own experience. Um, we call it the sacred union process.
And. It's about an hour. It's an hour audio, but it's, it's a very simple practice of just bringing connection intimacy back into your relationship and seeing each other. There's some questions and so forth, but it's really a non verbal practice of, uh, physical intimacy and touch and connection. And, um, it's, uh, there's a word that's eluding me.
Um, uh, it will come to me in a moment. Um, ah, Practice of consent and that, that, that practice of consent really opens up the heart, um, you know, for deeper truth to, to come forward. But there are so many frameworks out there. I mean, Tantra is one of them, right? Like there are so many [00:40:00] different communication models and styles like Imago or NVC, all of these can lead very deeply to sexual intimacy.
You know, um, there are so many, um, models around. Uh, sexuality and connection and self exploration and, and exploration together. I mean, the end of the day, if you're, if you're, if you're a couple that's curious, I would really just start, you know, just start researching, feed your curiosity, jump on, on the world wide web and the world's your oyster.
So there's, there's, there's so many frameworks out there. I wouldn't even, I wouldn't even know where to start really. It's just, it's different. Different strokes for different folks, right? Like everyone's going to be different in terms of what they're actually attracted to and what they resonate with.
Some people diving into physical intimacy as a practice and different, you know, orientations around that is way too intense. It's just too much for them. Sometimes people doing some eye gazing, um, or even asking each other questions, [00:41:00] um, around their past or around their needs and desires. That's too much.
Sometimes people just need to just make those love appointments and say, you know what? We're having a date night every week and we're going to go have some fun and it's fun and play. And they just get in the habit of spending time with each other again in that way. That could be going to a movie, going to dinner, going dancing, going for a walk, whatever it may be.
That may be the entry point, right? Like everything to me is sex. Everything to me is, is sexuality, you know, whether, whether it's. It's eating, eating the most, uh, the most flavorsome food or whether it's watching the sunset or holding your partner's hand or, or whatever it may be, or waking up next to your partner and, and, and hear them like, like take a sigh in their, in their sleep, you know, like whatever it is.
Everything's sex to me, going to the toilet is sex. Like there's a, there's a contraction and a release, contraction and expansion. That's what it is. Sneezing is, is sex as well. And so when we look at life in that way, I think, [00:42:00] you know, the, the frameworks that we utilize to, to be deeper in it, into our intimacy, they become, they just open up a lot more.
Yeah. I love that. I was just thinking about the times when. Having a pee can actually feel like this orgasm that's moving through the body as well. Have you ever, have you ever done that and being attentive when you're in LSD? That my friend, that my friend is another level. That there, I would, I would at times take that, that those experiences that I've had doing just urinating whilst on LSD or psilocybin, I would take that over sex.
A lot of times it was ridiculous and that, that to me speaks to this place of like really being with the sensation, the experience that's happening in the body and you know, this all around embodiment and you know, that's really the nature of this, this book that I brought out. And, you know, as you kind of bring this conversation to a close on a, you know, we've kind [00:43:00] of talked about it in different forms, but navigating the storms and what would be three tips for couples for.
Man for woman listening for navigating the storms in relationship. Cause that's usually where shit hits the fan. Things get crazy. Like what are the three things? And, you know, Stefanos, you know, pack of tool, tool of trades or tip tip for, uh, for, for amateurs. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I love it. Um, uh, agreements.
Have, have agreements in place when you're in a healthy place, not when you're in the middle of a conflict or argument or disagreement. So in other words, have agreements around how you want to disagree. You know, what are your standards around that? What will you tolerate? What will you not? In other words, you know, if you don't like your partner raising their voice and part of that agreement and the request, have requests and needs in those agreements is that, you know, you don't.
Raise your voice. When you are, you have agreements with, if you can't resolve a conflict or a difficulty or a challenge, or what does that look like? How do you come back to each [00:44:00] other? Right. That's important too. So there's, there's agreements really, really matter. Um, another, another tool that I think is really important is.
Uh, you know, we mentioned this earlier is having support in your life. I really do believe it takes a village to raise a child, but I, I take that even a step further. It's not just taking a village to raise a child, like the physical child developing through their formative years, but it takes a village to continue to evolve us as human beings.
We're relational beings. And so we have to be in reference to each other often. And sometimes one person, not sometimes, One person can not fulfill all of our needs and they also can't provide us with all of the wisdom that we seek. Right. It has to come from us. It has to come from other sources. And so having deep support in one's life, ah, man, just that's next, next level, next level.
And I would say regular check ins have regular check ins with each other. These are really [00:45:00] simple things, but they go a long way. Super regular change. I mean, Christine and I have, you know, we check in just now we work from home. So we check in with each other every day. It's just, it's a very organic thing, but you know, once a month we have a process that we go through, we, you know, part of our, we'll just go out and have some fun.
If it's, if it's a little quote unquote heavier, we'll stay home in the privacy of our own home and work through it, you know, but we have a process where we ask ourselves some questions. Um, and we rate ourselves on not our performance, but the way that we've been with each other the last month and share some truths and drop some truths.
And part of that as well is, is, um. Um, some depth around our sexuality and sexual connection and sexual union specifically, and that often then leads to, you know, exploration sexually after that. Well, it depends on the nature of the conversation. Sometimes not, but you know, yeah. Um, but yeah, those, those things are good.
Agreements, support, and just regular check ins, super simple. [00:46:00] Can take you a really long way. Love that. Thank you for those, those three pieces. Thank you, brother. This has been amazing. And, and I want to give you a chance, any people that don't know anything about you, where can they find your work? Where can they find out about you?
Just share your, you know, best, best way to reach you. Yeah. Appreciate that. Yeah. My website, StefanosSifandos. com, uh, or any social media, um, channel at Stefanos Sifandos, Yeah, beautiful. Well, I honor you. I appreciate you. I love the work that you're showing up and doing in this world. And it feels good to have a deeper dialogue together with you and see, uh, you know, a fellow brother is really, uh, showing up to reshape the way in which love and intimacy and connection is really happening.
And so for being here. And, you know, this, this whole series of, of, uh, conversations is all around this book, the embodied man, which came out in December. It was a bestseller in over seven countries and starting to [00:47:00] get its legs in the world. And, uh, yeah, it really expanded a lot of people's lives. And I know I saw you have a book coming out as well.
Which, uh, which is, which is amazing. So yeah, my, uh, hats off to you, brother. Great work and great to connect deeper. Appreciate you. Likewise. I appreciate the conversation, my friend. Thank you so much. Absolutely. Have a beautiful day.