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The Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction podcast explores efforts to reduce nutrients in Illinois waterways from agricultural runoff to municipal wastewater with host Todd Gleason and producers Rachel Curry, Nicole Haverback and Luke Zwilling with University of Illinois Extension.
Read the blog at extension.illinois.edu/nlr/blog.
Episode 52 | USDA's FPAC Conservation Mission
00:00:07:07 - 00:00:36:08
Todd Gleason
This is the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast, episode 52. USDA FPAC Conservation Mission. I'm university of Illinois Extension's Todd Gleason. Today we'll hear from Undersecretary Robert Bonnie He met with members of the National Association for Farm Broadcasting during their April visit to Washington, D.C.. The group gathered in the USDA building just off the National Mall, and asked Bonnie questions about the FPAC Conservation mission.
00:00:36:10 - 00:00:41:29
Todd Gleason
We'll begin here with the undersecretaries opening statement.
00:00:42:01 - 00:01:02:23
Robert Bonnie
So a couple things I feel like, I think as you all know, we've we've been busy and a lot of announcements over the last couple of years. And I think we're really, you know, when I look at the next two years, 18 months for me, I think, and for FPAC, I think a heavy focus on, execution for our partnerships, for climate smart commodities.
00:01:02:23 - 00:01:28:10
Robert Bonnie
That means, you know, getting agreements done, getting resources out in the field, working to get those projects up and running Inflation Reduction Act resources. It means, doing more to streamline our processes, to get producers into the door more easily in our conservation programs so that we can deploy those resources and do it in a way that works for for agriculture, works for those producers. For our field offices,
00:01:28:10 - 00:02:00:28
Robert Bonnie
It means working on ways that we can retain our people in the field, make sure we're, we're giving folks the the pay and the career choices they need. So, you know, a lot of focus there and making sure that we're doing everything we can to retain our employees. We'll continue to focus on our, emergency relief programs, our efforts to, you know, put, put out disaster funds in a way that will work for producers, get more people into the into the door for crop insurance and NAP, even while we provide ad hoc disaster relief.
00:02:01:00 - 00:02:25:05
Robert Bonnie
And the last thing I'll just say is, obviously, I hear rumors of farm bill year. I don't know if that, you know, I think you've seen the priorities that the administration has set. Will, will obviously, continue to, to work on those Congress writes the farm bill. Our, our biggest job is going to be, you know, providing technical assistance, working with people on the up on the hill to, to provide the best information to get a farm bill done.
00:02:25:06 - 00:02:32:17
Robert Bonnie
So let me just stop there and happy to, I'm assuming you guys aren't bashful about asking questions, but, you know, I'll open it up.
00:02:32:19 - 00:03:07:05
Todd Gleason
Again, this is Robert Bonney. He's the undersecretary for farm production and conservation at USDA. It is part of RMA, the risk management agency, which handles crop insurance and other programs. However, his pointed view is that conservation and the farm broadcasters started by asking him about the $20 billion allocated in the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act and how prescriptive it would be as it relates to conservation measures that USDA would like to see happen.
00:03:07:12 - 00:03:29:24
Robert Bonnie
So it's all for climate mitigation. But if you're a producer out in the field, we want, you know, we don't want, we want it to be easy for you to come in. So you may not know if it's our regular EQIP dollars for example, or the dollars that come through the Inflation Reduction Act. We, because the the law ties it to climate mitigation.
00:03:29:24 - 00:03:51:20
Robert Bonnie
There's a list of practices we have that will be funded through the inflation reduction Act, whether, you know, in the four programs, there are additional dollars for technical assistance, some additional dollars for monitoring and measurement, reporting, verification. I think the the real sort of core of your question is about what the practices are that we're going to fund under those four programs.
00:03:51:23 - 00:04:12:09
Robert Bonnie
And we've gone out with an initial set of of practices for climate smart agriculture and forestry. On the mitigation side, we're going to add to it over time. We're going to need to be flexible. We're going to need to allow for, changes in that. And so we'll have an ongoing process to look at the practices, make sure we have the right ones in place.
00:04:12:12 - 00:04:33:20
Robert Bonnie
The other thing I will say is a lot of overlap in climate smart practices with things that are, that, that we, that, that have other benefits, whether wildlife benefits or, you know, take things like conservation tillage, no till, those types of practices. Yeah, they can benefit climate mitigation, but they also, help on the resilient side, adaptation side, water quality side.
00:04:33:20 - 00:04:40:09
Robert Bonnie
So we'll continue to look at ways that we can, that we can promote the co-benefits that go along with those practices.
00:04:40:11 - 00:05:06:23
Todd Gleason
So one of the issues that was recognized as soon as Congress passed the IRA, the Inflation Reduction Act, and it was signed into law by President Joe Biden, is that the farm bill would be coming up this year and that the money allocated under IRA, while a separate pot might be used to fulfill some of the farm Bill funding obligations, the farm broadcasters wanted to know what Bonnie thought about this prospect.
00:05:06:26 - 00:05:28:29
Robert Bonnie
Well, I mean, I think in the in the case of the administration, we're obviously, you know, strongly support to Inflation Reduction Act. We want to see those dollars stay in in climate smart agriculture and forestry. You know, farm bills are always we always have a, set budget. And we have to make choices. Congress has to make choices about what the priorities are.
00:05:28:29 - 00:05:34:16
Robert Bonnie
I think the administration is strongly supportive of seeing those those resources stay in climate mitigation.
00:05:34:16 - 00:05:50:18
Todd Gleason
There were two items of concern Bonnie was asked about related to climate smart agriculture. One of them was whether or not these programs would be voluntary or mandatory, and the other was about the collection of data to prove the value of the programs.
00:05:50:19 - 00:06:17:07
Robert Bonnie
Yeah. So on the first piece, everything you will see from, the Biden administration from, USDA on this will be voluntary, incentive based, collaborative, efforts, partnerships, a perfect example that the Inflation Reduction Act dollars as well. We think that's an approach that can work. What we're essentially asking folks to do is adopt voluntarily adopt conservation practices.
00:06:17:07 - 00:06:39:00
Robert Bonnie
Regulatory. Regulatory approaches aren't very good at getting people to I mean, you know, you're not going to adopt soil health practices at the at the end of a gun barrel. And so the the the approach here, we think the voluntary approach is absolutely the right one, but we need the data to be able to to prove this, to demonstrate that it's that, that this approach can work.
00:06:39:00 - 00:07:00:23
Robert Bonnie
So we're making big investments both with resources in the Inflation Reduction Act and outside to make sure that we can prove this, that we have better numbers on soil carbon than we have better numbers on methane, better numbers on nitrous oxide emissions. And we think if we can do that, I mean, right now, the, the, you know, if you think about going back a decade or more ago, everybody assumed there's going to be cap and trade.
00:07:00:23 - 00:07:24:04
Robert Bonnie
That's how we were going to do climate change. We're all trying to figure out what the rules are. The playing field is way more open right now, and we have an opportunity here to work in partnership with agriculture and forestry to develop things that will work for the climate and work for producers. Data is going to be critical both to provide the information that producers need, but also to to be able to look the public in the eye and look Congress in the eye and say, hey, these resources are providing real results.
00:07:24:10 - 00:07:27:20
Todd Gleason
Here's why Robert Bonnie of USDA says that's important.
00:07:27:23 - 00:07:46:25
Todd Gleason
So this is it's really, really important that at the end of the day, tens of thousands of farmers have to make individual decisions about those practices. They want to adopt local decision making. We can support that with better data. We can support it with incentives. We also want to tap into your point about, tap into what farmers are already doing.
00:07:46:27 - 00:08:04:15
Robert Bonnie
We don't want to penalize the early adopters here. We need to provide incentives to keep those early adopters in the game to continue doing what they're doing. And a lot of the learning that will that will take place is farmers talking to farmers. And and so, and we want to we want to support that as well.
00:08:04:18 - 00:08:20:16
Robert Bonnie
It also means that partners are going to be really important. This can't just be a USDA thing. We have to work in partnership with folks on the ground that that can encourage the types of, conversations that can happen locally that will lead to greater adoption of cover crops or other practices as well.
00:08:20:22 - 00:08:33:11
Todd Gleason
Practices that have been or will be adopted across the Midwest by producers because they make agronomic and economic sense, which brought the farm broadcasters to the carbon market.
00:08:33:11 - 00:08:38:01
Todd Gleason
Question. Where does USDA stand on carbon markets?
00:08:38:04 - 00:08:59:06
Robert Bonnie
So when we started, when we, started the conversation that led to the partnerships for Climate Smart Commodities, we did a lot of listening. Right. And, we think carbon markets could be one part of the solution, but not the only thing. You see a lot of the interest from companies that buy commodities in greening their supply chain.
00:08:59:09 - 00:09:25:16
Robert Bonnie
You see, producer groups, whether it's, folks in cotton or beef or elsewhere that are that are interested in marketing the, climate smart practices that go along with their commodities. So I think at the at the end of the day, you're liable to see lots of approaches that seek to, to, encourage private capital coming into agriculture to support climate solutions.
00:09:25:18 - 00:09:51:14
Robert Bonnie
Carbon markets may be part of that. Voluntary carbon markets. We know they're already out there. You have a compliance market in in California. But I think those voluntary markets, could be an important tool. They're likely not going to be the only thing. And so our job at USDA is to provide incentives to provide data to partner with folks in the private sector in, in agriculture and forestry, to allow those solutions to go forward.
00:09:51:16 - 00:10:08:12
Robert Bonnie
And the bet we're making is that this voluntary, incentive based approach backed by data, if we can prove that it works, the policy will a little bit take care of itself, whether it's a, you know, greater emphasis on carbon markets, climate smart commodities, supply chains, whatever it is.
00:10:08:18 - 00:10:26:09
Todd Gleason
It was at this point that a member of the NAFB made note that farm shows were filled with booths targeted at sustainable agriculture, and it gave Barney the opening to reiterate the stance that the practices needed to be voluntary, not mandatory.
00:10:26:12 - 00:10:49:10
Robert Bonnie
I think so, and I think, that's one of the reasons it's so important that this stays voluntary that that, farmers feel like a partner. And I think if we keep that approach there, that that folks will continue to buy in. Your point about technology and, innovation is really, really important. Part of the solution to climate change is actually maintaining productivity.
00:10:49:12 - 00:11:12:10
Robert Bonnie
We've got to keep people both economically viable, and we have to continue to produce food and fiber. And so productivity matters. And that means technology, innovation, genetics, all all that stuff, matters a lot. And it means our approaches need not to be prescriptive from top down, but to allow that, that type of, adoption of, of, of new technologies and new approaches.
00:11:12:13 - 00:11:37:09
Robert Bonnie
And so, again, you know, we're trying to promote a model that that, rewards outcomes, that creates incentives for, for outcomes, but that allows that type of innovation. Last thing I'll say is, and some of you have heard me say this before, we're used to a lot of environmental issues where where there conflicts over that, whether it's the cost of conserving endangered species habitat or whatever, the whatever the issue is.
00:11:37:11 - 00:12:03:10
Robert Bonnie
The really interesting thing about climate is there are lots of alignment there, really good agronomic practices that can improve or improve productivity and can improve, the climate as well. U.S. agriculture is more efficient than agriculture in other parts of the world. Efficiency matters. If we can produce more for using less resources, less greenhouse gases, that's an important climate solution.
00:12:03:17 - 00:12:24:29
Robert Bonnie
U.S. agriculture is good at that. If we get the incentives, U.S. agriculture is going to be really good already is really good at climate smart agriculture and forestry. And again, if the approach is one about volunteerism, it's about markets. It's about, it's about incentives and it allows for innovation and rewards productivity. I think U.S. agriculture will do very, very well.
00:12:25:03 - 00:12:44:29
Todd Gleason
The follow up question to this was very interesting. Again, this is a conversation between Robert Bonnie, the undersecretary for farm production and conservation with Farm Broadcasters in Washington, D.C., and they wanted to know what USDA was thinking as it relates to messaging to the general public on conservation.
00:12:44:29 - 00:12:50:04
Robert Bonnie
Really important. So, we have got to tell the story.
00:12:50:04 - 00:13:17:24
Robert Bonnie
I think there's there's going to be a need for continued investment in USDA in these types of partnerships. There will be resources that come from the private sector, but we've got to be able to look the taxpayer in the eye and say, these are these investments are important. We've got to tell a narrative about agriculture that demonstrates, not only what agriculture has done, but what it can do that talks about the technological innovations that we see in equipment and seeds and all these things.
00:13:17:27 - 00:13:42:15
Robert Bonnie
We've got to tell that story. We also have to tell that story so that the market remains confident that it can invest in U.S. agriculture. And so that that narrative is really, really important. I think USDA, you know, one of the things we will look to over the next a year and a half is telling that story as the partnerships programs come out, as we deploy I.R.A. dollars, we need to get out in the field, talk to farmers, and let them tell the story about what's working to this point.
00:13:42:15 - 00:14:06:07
Todd Gleason
You've heard nearly all of the conversation between the NAFB members and Robert. Bonnie. We were 14 minutes into the press conference, and I had a chance to ask my own question. It was about the data collect and and the importance and value of that data and the research investment USDA might be willing to make into it.
00:14:06:07 - 00:14:13:13
Robert Bonnie
I should say, you know, the, the, confidentiality of data remains critical to farmers.
00:14:13:13 - 00:14:36:26
Robert Bonnie
And we have to maintain that, that for farmers. We're working on, a plan right now in USDA to deploy the dollars that are in the Inflation Reduction Act and to look at ways across the department that we can invest in better data. So NAS can tell us, can can, can help us understand who's doing what practices where.
00:14:36:26 - 00:15:15:28
Robert Bonnie
So we have a better understanding of that. More, more for concrete data. ARS and NRCS can do more to tell us, the implications of different practices for soil carbon that will provide producers better information, better models, and provide them the market better. We need to do a better job on forestry. In terms of the effects of wildfire and forest restoration and treatments. Places all over the department where where, we're going to be making investments in part to tell the story so we can do a better job of telling the story, in part to provide better tools to producers so that they can make better decisions, in part to help the market understand,
00:15:15:28 - 00:15:33:15
Robert Bonnie
you know, where where you make investments. But, you know, as I say, there's there has to be more investment. The public has to have, confidence in our data. We have pretty good data in the US. We need to strengthen it significantly. You'll see more force from us on that.
00:15:33:18 - 00:15:37:27
Todd Gleason
Our time was limited with Robert Bonnie, and there were just two more questions to be asked.
00:15:37:27 - 00:15:50:04
Todd Gleason
One of them was whether some of the IRA or the Inflation Reduction Act money would be allocated to other agencies, as it's related to climate smart agriculture.
00:15:50:11 - 00:16:03:01
Robert Bonnie
I mean, I think our focus will remain on, climate smart agriculture and forestry. We’ll work with EPA, for example, on biofuels policy, where think there's significant gains that could be had from greenhouse gas emissions.
00:16:03:01 - 00:16:37:17
Robert Bonnie
There. I mean, part of what you're seeing in those data is some growth, I think probably some growth in the rest of the economy that's brought emissions back up. And agriculture has stayed pretty steady. I think that that report has us just below 10% of U.S. greenhouse gas emissions. As you see over time, as you see significant, reductions in, in emissions on the fossil fuel side, you know, we're going to want to see, reductions and increased sequestration on, on the, on the agricultural side as well.
00:16:37:19 - 00:16:55:13
Robert Bonnie
And so, you know, I think, when I was here in the beginning of the Obama administration, there's a big debate about who, you know, who's going to be in charge of agriculture, who's going to be EPA was going to be USDA in terms of the cap and trade program at that time. There's no debate about that. Now.
00:16:55:15 - 00:17:18:08
Robert Bonnie
I think there's broad, support for this, this voluntary approach. And our job at USDA is to work with other parts of the, of the government government to make sure that that's the approach we continue to take with, with U.S. agriculture. And, you know, as it comes to climate, we'll continue to to advocate for that. But as I say, there's really not a debate within the administration about kind of what the approach is.
00:17:18:10 - 00:17:32:20
Todd Gleason
The final question from a member of the NFB to the undersecretary did not quite seem related to conservation. However, it clearly is. It was the concern about farmland being taken out of production and converted to other uses.
00:17:32:25 - 00:17:43:17
Robert Bonnie
Yes. So, first sort of narrowly on the conservation programs and then I'll, I'll spread out to, to other things that we do there.
00:17:43:19 - 00:18:10:16
Robert Bonnie
Huge challenge. It's a huge challenge in both agriculture and forestry, with significant implications for the environment, environmental quality, local communities, agricultural supply chains. NRCs has a conservation easement program that we work with, with partners on the ground to put land in into, conservation easements will continue to, to work on. That's a voluntary, incentive based, approach that has worked really well.
00:18:10:19 - 00:18:47:11
Robert Bonnie
We need to do a better job of deploying those resources more quickly. And we're looking for ways that we can better work with partners on the ground. Frankly it has become too bureaucratic. Conservation programs can also help us. Can also, they may not be permanent conservation easements, but if we're working in partnership with producers on the ground, we can keep them, keep them in business through a variety of conservation programs, EQIP, CSP, those types of programs can be important too. More broadly though, the the investments we make in things like farm loans are are are are, you know, the things we do to finance agriculture, disaster programs, our crop insurance and others can make
00:18:47:11 - 00:19:09:28
Robert Bonnie
it, can make it more economically viable for families to stay on the land. And and the goal is to keep those families there. They not only produce the food and fiber that society needs, but they provide enormous environmental benefits. Most people think of wildlife conservation, they think of forest conservation. And they, they they turn to the West and they think of our big public lands.
00:19:10:01 - 00:19:31:24
Robert Bonnie
Most wildlife have most of their habitat on those private working lands. Our water quality depends a significant degree on those private working lands and the communities open space and other things are dependent on our farmers, ranchers and forest owners. We've got to provide them the the incentives both to our conservation programs, but also through our the other programs we operate here to finance agriculture.
00:19:31:26 - 00:19:53:13
Robert Bonnie
Those things can keep those those families on, on the land with enormous consequences for positive consequences for the environment, so really important issue. Now I grew up in Oldham County, Kentucky. I was, my, family's farm. We still have. It was, was a long way from the city. There's a Starbucks within five miles of us now.
00:19:53:15 - 00:20:08:00
Robert Bonnie
The farms permanently protected some farmland around us two. And it'll it'll stay in agriculture. But this is a challenge all across the country. And maintaining our our most productive, agricultural lands. Absolutely critical.
00:20:08:02 - 00:20:22:11
Todd Gleason
That's Robert Bonnie of USDA, RMA. He serves as the undersecretary of FPAC, or farm production and conservation. He spoke with members of the National Association of Farm Broadcasting in April of 2023.
00:20:22:13 - 00:20:39:22
Todd Gleason
You, of course, have been listening to episode 52 of the Illinois Nutrient Loss Reduction Podcast, USDA's FPAC mission. The program was produced in conjunction with Illinois Extension's Rachel Curry and Nicole Haverback. I'm the University of Illinois Extension farm broadcaster Todd Gleason.