Join Derek Hudson as he explores Essential Dynamics, a framework for approaching the challenges facing people and organizations. Consider your Quest!
And here we are. Happy holidays, everyone. As we record this episode, we are deep in the Christmas season and feeling very generous to one another, or at least I hope my cohorts are generous toward me. Merry Christmas to everyone, and welcome to another episode of Essential Dynamics, a perspective on life and business from the point of view of mister Derek Hudson, our wonderful guru. Derek, how are you today? I'm just calling you a guru.
Derek:Yeah. And I keep I keep wishing you wouldn't. I'm a student. Merry Christmas, Reed. Merry Christmas, Bryn.
Derek:Hello.
Reed:Yeah. Thank you. And Bryn Griffiths in the studio is with us today. That's that's great because I always like to hear mighty mouth speak to us.
Bryn:Thank you. I am I being paid scale for this or what? Oh, we'll talk about it after. It's not That's right. It's not good to talk during the show about that.
Reed:I thought the union was on strike, Brynn, but no. Okay. That's fine.
Bryn:I'm happy to be with you two guys because I've known you forever.
Reed:And you're still alive, so that's probably
Bryn:I'm happy about that too. Thumbs up.
Reed:Derek, how are you today?
Derek:Great. I'm, very much in the Christmas spirit today. I feel great. Really?
Reed:Yeah. I'm glad to hear that. Tell me some things that make you feel Christmassy.
Derek:Well, I'm, you know, looking outside my window of my home office, and there's snow nestled on all the tree branches. So, that's a Christmassy thing. Been piping in the Christmas music constantly, and anticipating the arrival of pitter patter of little feet and arrival of, grandchildren on December 26, which will be Christmas day in the house Hudson House.
Reed:Wonderful. I I wish I could be there. That sounds really fun because I know who your grandchildren are.
Derek:Mhmm. Cooler than me.
Reed:Yeah. They're wonderful. They're wonderful. Well, Derek, how do we how do we, fit Essential Dynamics into Christmas? That seems like a stretch to me.
Derek:Yeah. So, you know, this is the Essential Dynamics Christmas special.
Reed:That's right. And I am holding Holly and
Derek:Yeah.
Reed:Drinking it
Derek:and not And, like, what like, why what's what's the connection? And so I I wanna walk you guys through my through my thinking. Okay. And, this is a man, there's so much here, but let let me try this. I developed the essential dynamics framework because I wanted to talk about how I solve business problems.
Reed:Right.
Derek:Then I realized that it was broader and that was applicable both at a larger scale to society's issues and also to, you know, personal relationships and our own personal development. And of course, I can't separate the way I think, from my religious upbringing and my constant study of, of the gospel of Jesus Christ.
Reed:Mhmm.
Derek:And it's been a huge influence on, on my life. I I like to think it has influenced the way I act with people and the kind of person that I am. But I have as I've pondered essential dynamics, I realized that this story is only really a reflection of the story of, you know, God's children, of which Christmas plays a really important part. So I just kinda wanna walk through, through some of that stuff today, but, you know, mostly in a, in a conversation. But I'm gonna set my text, and I this isn't a sermon.
Derek:I have given many talks in church. I've preached a lot, but this is not what we're gonna do today. But I do wanna share one scripture. And, Bryn's our sports guy. Reid is our is our theater guy.
Derek:But Bryn, I know you know the scripture because it's the one that comes up at all hockey games and the basketball games. John three sixteen. Yeah. Right? Yep.
Derek:And and in my mind, we can kinda break it down. This is essential dynamics in one scripture in the New Testament.
Reed:Are you telling me that the essential dynamics that we've been discussing for 60 episodes or so came from the bible?
Bryn:Or there's a parallel to it.
Derek:Yeah. Or or maybe it came from the same place as the bible.
Bryn:K. I'm intrigued. Yeah.
Derek:So anyway. So here so this is
Reed:John blown.
Derek:This is John three sixteen. For god so loved the world that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life.
Bryn:K.
Derek:So there's a there's a bunch of stuff in there. So, you know, in Essential Dynamics, we talk about the idea of a quest.
Reed:Right.
Derek:And that and that quest that epic quest really resonates with us. You know, we love the story. And that story is in, you know, mythology and, religion and human experience since it's been recorded. You know, we talked a little bit about Joseph Campbell capturing it in the hero's journey. But I think that the hero's journey resonates because it's based in truth.
Derek:And and the and the truth is is that the reality of our mortal experience, human beings here on this earth, is that each of us are on a quest. And, the elements that we talk about in a quest, are present for all of us. First of all, I believe that our personalities, you know, our spirit is something that existed before we were born. And that, we have heavenly parents. We lived with them as spirits in a very different state than we are now, but it was comfortable.
Derek:It was, it was safe. It was comfortable, and it also was limiting. Limiting. Limiting. For us to be able to grow and develop and be more like our heavenly parents, we had to leave the nest, wait to embark on an epic adventure.
Derek:And, and that's the purpose of this life. And we go through challenges. We have companions. There's obstacles. Sometimes we feel like we wanna run away from it all and resist the call to adventure.
Derek:And, through it all, we get divine help. And then at the end, when we accomplish the purpose, we realize two things. First of all, that we did provide some benefit to the world. And second, we're not the same person as when we started Oh, yeah. Because of the growth because of the growth that we've under undergone largely because of the trials that we've had to overcome.
Derek:So our our experience in life is the quest, and so that's why the the story of the quest resonates so much. And here I was, you know, a year and a half ago, trying to talk about a business problem and elevating it to the quest. And I thought I was onto something and realized that that's even that's just a metaphor, you know, for life. So
Reed:So does that discourage you? That that I don't know. I don't think you should be discouraged because, well, Voltaire, who may or may not be on our minds at Christmas, Voltaire said imitation oh, no. What is it? Repetition?
Reed:Imitation is just judicious blattery. I have a hard time saying judicious.
Bryn:I think it was Rich Little that said that. Not Voltaire. But anyway, never mind. Just throwing that out there.
Derek:Reid Reid, just to be clear, I'm not disappointed.
Reed:It's okay. No.
Derek:You know, I I shot low, and then I ended up seeing something that, you know, in a sense that, you know, I already knew and and we knew if if we were asked the right questions.
Reed:Well, so you're you're not disappointed that you have main mainly expressed essential dynamics for all this time. And then then now at our Christmas special, discovered that it was old news.
Derek:Yeah. That's not disappointing. It's, I just like the resonance. I like what in my mind, truth is absolute. Truth truth is consistent.
Derek:But the way we can find it and understand it, you know, can really be varied. And so we understand these principles.
Reed:Well, let's get to the nitty gritty. Drivers, constraints, mentor. You you tell me. Tell me on my quest here how you relate it to the Christmas story and if indeed you do.
Derek:Okay. So let me let me start with, purpose x and purpose y.
Reed:Okay. Good.
Derek:And so I think that, God has purpose x and purpose y for his children. And,
Reed:Better explain that.
Derek:Yeah. Yeah. So and, you know, there's nothing wrong with having two conflicting purposes because his conflicting purposes were, one, he would like us to be good like him.
Reed:Okay. I think that's every father's wish. It's good.
Derek:Yeah. He he would like us to grow up and be like him. But We're more better than. But on the other hand, he also wants us to have our own, agency. You know, and we talked about that a few episodes ago.
Derek:Yep. Yep. So so here's the here's the contrast. Be like me and make your own choices.
Reed:So you
Derek:can choose Purpose sex, purpose why.
Reed:So I've given you this. I'm speaking as god now because he's a personal friend. Your you you give I've given you life, and I've given you options. And I've told you which ones not to choose, but you must choose for yourself.
Derek:Right.
Reed:Is that correct? Yeah.
Derek:Yeah. And I I would love for you to come back to me having learned enough to be with me. And I I have a quotation which I think explains this really well. It's from a man called, Dale Renlund, leader in our church. And he says, and I just this is purpose x and purpose y.
Derek:He just didn't call him that. I might give him a call and suggest that.
Reed:It hadn't come with the window, William.
Derek:Yeah. Pick it up. Yeah. Our yeah. Our heavenly father's goal in parenting is not to have his children do what is right.
Derek:It is to have his children choose to do what is right and ultimately become like him. If he simply wanted us to be obedient, he would use immediate rewards and punishments to influence our behaviors. But God is not interested in his children just becoming trained and obedient pets who will not chew on his slippers in the celestial living room. No. No.
Derek:Love it. God want God wants his children to grow up spiritually and join him in the family business.
Reed:Which is making lives better.
Derek:Yeah. Yeah. Now let let
Bryn:let me throw this at you here because I'm I I started out
Reed:losing you, Brent.
Bryn:I I started, I started out, following the path of the United Church of Canada. But over the years, I veered to the point now where I think, you know what, as as the older I get, the more cynical I've become on a lot of things.
Reed:And that may be natural. That may be Yeah. I That may be the
Bryn:I think I question a lot more, but I think that you tend to drive what we've been talking about essential dynamics to whatever path or roadway that you are familiar with. And if it's religion, that's the way you will go with it. For me, I I feel a level of spirituality, but I feel no connection with religion at all. And I feel like life it's funny. So I go through this big cancer scare about, two years ago.
Bryn:And as I come out of that, I see the world completely different because I for two days, I wasn't I was on the verge of not making it. So Mhmm. The one there's one song that just has suddenly stuck out with me, and it is Life is a Highway by Tom Cochran. And I don't need to hear the lyrics of it, but the title says it all for me. And what it is is that I'm constantly driving on the highway.
Bryn:And there are times where we'll take an off ramp off that freeway, and we might find great adventures. We might find great successes. We might find great failures. But at some point, I'm probably gonna get back on that freeway and continue to drive down that path. I don't know what's driving me down that path, but I don't feel it's an all being person because that's not really the the methodology that I go with.
Bryn:But there's definitely something that directs us. I don't know what it is, but, I just think that we, we all recognize that we have to do good things in life. We have to make sure our family gets looked after. You know, we could do all these checklists that we all believe in, and everything that we've talked about and all the, all the essential dynamics, bits bits and pieces, Derek, that I've been so fascinated by listening to, and I go, uh-huh. Yeah.
Bryn:No. I get that. I get that.
Reed:Yeah.
Bryn:I just think that how people get from point a to point b is and can be completely different, yet there is a lot of commonality here. If there is there such a word commonality? If there isn't, I just created it.
Derek:No. No. I we're we're we're with you.
Bryn:But does that make sense at all? Because I I will see things really a lot differently than you guys, but I think at the end of the day, I think we're all kinda going down the same path in a lot of ways, and we all have a different way of determining whether or not we were able to get to where we set the bar. It's just me. Just my take on it.
Reed:No. No. I I I'm interested in this. I I think that's, I'm intrigued that Derek can put essential dynamics up against, a religious philosophy and have them harmonized. Sure.
Reed:I I think that's fascinating. And,
Bryn:I
Reed:also, I also think, Brynn, that what you've expressed, I mean, sometimes, we go through religious or spiritual experiences regardless of our faith. It just it's a there's a different word for it. It's just like you you experienced several times, I think, a life changing experience that the the the the deaths in your family, the losses of your your parents and your sister, and, I I hope I'm not being too
Bryn:No. No. You're right. No. These are the challenges that are thrown in front of us.
Bryn:And this Yeah. As I have always said, and I know you guys will agree with this, you you can tell more about a person by how they handle the challenges than how they handle the good times. And and to me, what that does is it it just all it does is it solidifies and makes my route or my map further down the line more clear than than anything. You have to go through the difficult times before you recognize that, hey, that's all part of life. That's how I view it.
Bryn:I'm very I'm very,
Derek:oh, man.
Bryn:I wish I could find the word to describe it, but I I tend to be generally upbeat and positive, even though I'm cynical at at the at the weirdest, I think sometimes the correct times, but I I think that I've learned more about myself and, and just by the way I've handled the tough times, not the good times. The good times are easy to get through for me.
Reed:Yeah. Well, obviously, I it seems obvious to me, if not to you, that you were, you were given another chance of life because you had to go through this essential dynamics with us.
Derek:Yep.
Reed:And we needed you to be in the studio. I'm not sure there's a greater purpose in life than to serve Derek.
Bryn:Well, no. You're right.
Derek:Either either that or maybe this is a bigger challenge to cancer is to have to put up with this.
Bryn:Well, I do know one thing out of all of that is that if there's one life thing that I have to achieve now, it's to try to help people get through it. And might it come back and take me? Sure. But in the meantime, if I can be of any kind of, assistance or inspiration, man, I hate that using that word when I'm talking about me. But if I can if I can say something inspirational, somebody else who's gone through exactly what I've gone through in the last two to three years, then I think that that's, that's really what my new calling is as I move ahead.
Derek:Thanks. We're gonna get to that, Bryn, but I heard two things, that I wanna just flag and make sure we get back to them. You said calling. Yes. You said calling.
Derek:So that's part of the quest is to receive the call Yep. That you don't necessarily want. And then the second thing is that, you know, that the hero's journey involves the help from other people. And a lot of times, we're the help. Yeah.
Derek:Right? Right? Someone else is on a journey and we're the help. And, especially if you've been there, and you've been places that, you know, you might as well get some value out of where you've been by, you know, helping other people along the way.
Reed:I see that. Sure.
Derek:Yeah. So anyway, the the whole idea of this, purpose x, purpose y is that, you know, God had this dilemma, which is how do I get people to learn how to be like me and not take away their agency to choose else, you know, choose something else. And so he creates, this earth, which has, as we spoke in an earlier podcast about, it's got natural loss, and there's they're constrained. There's limits. We have physical bodies that get sick and die, and we're all in our sixties now.
Derek:So and everyone's been sick a little bit. So, you know, we face that. Hey. Speaking of sick, nineteen years ago today, I had my heart attack. Wow.
Reed:Nineteen years.
Derek:Nineteen years ago today. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Today.
Derek:Today. Today. 12/14/2002. K. So, you know, we're all mortal and we, we have limited time and sometimes our bodies, you know, let us down a little bit.
Derek:That's part of that's part of the plan here. Another part of the plan is that we don't remember that God set us on this journey. We have to discover for ourselves. And that's a that's a really fun one. A great example I have of that of the call is, is Terry Potter who grows up, you know, under this under the stairs of his of his uncle and aunt.
Reed:Of the Dursleys. Yeah.
Derek:Treated like garbage. And then, Hagrid, the the giant, you know, invades their family vacation, I think it is. And finally says to him, you're a wizard, Harry.
Bryn:Right.
Derek:And, you know, all of us have to kind of find out that, you know, literally we are divine offspring of, you know, the creator of the universe. That's the I mean, people may believe other things, but I don't know that you can get higher than that, that you have that kind of potential. And but you only you can only realize it through going through challenges. So we talk about opposition, and so that's, you know, one of the functions of this earth life is that things aren't easy. And, to not be good is enticing.
Reed:Yes.
Derek:It's either it's either enticing because we're angry or tired or mean, or it's enticing because, you know, it's the pleasures of the flesh or power or indulgence or whatever. You know, certainly, you know, all kinds of things that are addictive have that, you know, there's the there's the, the buzz that they offer, and then there's the change that that come along with it. You know, all those things are just part of this this mortal journey, and they're designed to be this laboratory or testing ground or school that we have to get the experience. So it fits the quest so well that I think it's actually the other way around. The quest is the way we describe why life is the way it is, and that resonates.
Reed:Eric, that's and it resonates partly. I mean, you mentioned the Harry Potter story, and I have some experience with that since, all the Harry Potter stories were based on my life story. But I, I would like to point out that every one of those, what, eight books, there's more to play of later and and and the other stories. But, nonetheless, all of those stories depict, moments of obstacle and extreme obstacle, in some cases, adversity. And if they didn't, they wouldn't be interesting.
Reed:They wouldn't be classics. They because as as interesting it would be to read about Harry Potter every day at Hogwarts, it would not be as interesting if he didn't have some particular lesson to learn in that story, which was every year of his schooling. Right? Yep.
Derek:Yep. Well well, read the there's a couple of things to that. Yes. There's always obstacles, but but the other thing is that not not all of them, but a lot of them in epic epic literature, the protagonist doesn't overcome without help.
Reed:Right.
Derek:So the help comes in many forms. It's it's companions, that, you know, that
Reed:Like traveling rings.
Derek:Traveling companions, you know, the fellowship. Sometimes it comes from that mentor figure, although they tend to be, you know, kind of prompting from the wings sometimes and, you know, just giving advice. Sometimes they get tools, you know.
Reed:Like a like a a map or a
Derek:A sword or something like that, invisibility cloak, you know, they get those tools that help. And then actually, that makes the story interesting because if, the protagonist has all the capacity to get through all the trials and, you know, and, you know, win the drives, slay the dragon on their own, then it's still kinda predictable.
Reed:I agree.
Bryn:This this topic came up at our house last night, shockingly.
Derek:And so Oh, really?
Bryn:About the fact that, you know what? Everybody's gonna it's one thing to be to have protagonists, but there a play is boring. A movie is boring. Life is boring. If there aren't a few antagonists, there's gotta be conflict that creates the good or the bad spin in life.
Bryn:Right? And we we were talking about this very thing last night.
Reed:Well, sure.
Derek:So true. You got the the metaphor maybe of the, the guy with the angel on one shoulder and the devil on one shoulder. Yeah. And I I think it goes beyond that because both of those sort of forces have power. They're not just voices.
Derek:And and so this idea that there's a higher power is, like, there's no quest without higher power. And then and then one of the things that, you know, that kind of suggests to me is it's not completely consistent in all of the literature, but, you know, in some ways, there is a higher power, and the higher power, the forces of light are stronger than the forces of darkness. So it's not we're not trying to save the world in the sense that evil has to be, you know, that sort of, you know, God can't do without our help. It's that we it's that we it's our job. We have to, suppress the evil.
Derek:We have to suppress the evil in ourselves. We as a community, we own the responsibility of suppressing evil. And, you you know, if God wiped out all evil, then we wouldn't have this conflict that you're talking about. So a really good example of that, and you know, it's not in the Lord of the Rings movies, so for the people who only watch the movies and don't read the books, they'll miss this. Remember the scouring of the Shire at the end?
Reed:Mhmm. Sure.
Derek:Right. So they save Middle Earth, they save the world, and then they come back and that's mayhem back in their hometown. And, just as they get there, Gandalf says, oh, see you guys.
Reed:This one's yours.
Derek:This one's yours. Yeah.
Reed:Yeah.
Derek:So so I think, you know, that's one way to, you know, and I I know, Bryn, that you're an optimistic cynic, but I think some of the optimism is that, you know, we got this, because ultimately the higher power is gonna prevail, but our job is to work in our garden
Reed:Yeah.
Derek:You know, to protect our our things. And so I think that that aspect of divine help is is prevalent. Now, let me move on to drivers and constraints for a second because we do gotta get to Christmas here at some point.
Reed:Oh, oh, oh, that's right.
Derek:That's what
Reed:we're doing.
Derek:Yeah. Because, I mean, we love talking about essential dynamics the whole time, and, and but let's remember our our purpose today is Christmas.
Reed:I'm sorry. I had a purpose x and a purpose y.
Derek:Yeah. Yeah. So so, you know, this one's really interesting because this one's deep, And that is is I think about the drivers and the business problems that I look at, and we talk about the drivers and the personal things that, you know, that people are working on. There's a lot of power in having, motivation that's, you know, moving you forward that's really, you know, naturally compelling. It's it's good.
Derek:And so we've talked about organizations that just have this really high purpose, and they engage people because the people really identify with the purpose, and, and they they just wanna do good in the world. But the the purpose is seems to me is always to make people's lives better. Like, you you know, even if it's even if it's to, raise the stock price.
Reed:Right. Right. That's but what you're saying is that's the worthy purpose. It's like you may I remember reading the the Steve Jobs biography, and he really wanted to make the world better too. Yeah.
Reed:But, not everybody at Mac at Macintosh or at Apple really felt the same way. But they all did feel like they were making the technical world better, and that was something. So within it just kinda narrowed down. Yeah.
Derek:Yeah. I mean, there's there's lots of ways to look at it. There's lots of ways to look at it, but, ultimately, any product, if it doesn't make somebody's life better or make them think their life is better Right. Which is the problem with a lot of vices that sell well. Yeah.
Derek:You know, it's always based on people. Like, there's no robots out there ultimately buying stuff that kind of goes to people. And so if that's a if that's a worthy cause, it's to actually really improve, you know, people's lives. And, one of the best motivations for trying to improve someone's life is if you love them.
Reed:Oh my gosh. I just got a little goosebump here. Sorry.
Derek:So so, my premise here, my hypothesis is the ultimate driver of everything good in the universe is God's love. And so I go back I go back to, John three sixteen, starts out for God so loved the world. So you can tap into God's love, and then then we can have a driver. And sometimes you do that, you have to work to do that. Other times, like a mother with a child, you know, there's just that inherent love that you have for the, for that baby that's helpless and doesn't do anything for you other than just being there.
Derek:But that love is just a reflection of another parental love, which is God creating all of us. And then, you know, and there's, I can't remember the, the reference, but we loved him because he first loved us. So so, you know, we can express love and we can feel love, but the first love was God created a world and a plan, and that's God's love. So that's the driver. Now let's talk about the constraint.
Bryn:Sure.
Derek:And I've kind of, I've kind of, maybe foreshadowed a little bit my some of my thoughts about the constraint. You know, and we talk about these opposing forces. What are your thoughts on, you know, if if God's love is the driver, what's what's, you know, the corresponding sort of ultimate constraint?
Reed:Well, then it's it's it's Satan's hubris.
Derek:So that so read that. That's awesome because I think that there are two possible answers. You said them both in two words, and it's not Satan. Satan is not the ultimate constraint because God can he could close that off at any time.
Reed:Okay.
Derek:But it is pride.
Reed:Okay.
Derek:Because pride is the one thing that takes us away from God's love.
Reed:The one thing?
Derek:The one thing I think that takes us away from God's love because, we he besides besides giving us our lives and all this opportunity, he also gave us the freedom to choose, and we really like to exercise that. Oh, yeah. Kind of like in the face of all kinds of other things. And so there's this great quotation, from CS Lewis who probably wrote some article somewhere about essential dynamics and God's plan for us. But anyway, he said there are two kinds of people, those who say to God thy will be done, and, you you know, and then there's, then there's, scripture from, from our faith tradition, Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints, every man walketh in his own way and after the image of his own God.
Derek:And, you know, and the first great commandment was thou shall not have any other gods before me. And it's it's not that there was any competition between, you know, the the God of the Israelites and, you know, the idols that they worship. But we all set up what we think. We we would like God to be like this. And and and he would ask this of us, but not that.
Reed:Right.
Derek:And, or, you know, in people worship at the altar of, you know, prosperity or indulgence or power or fame or whatever, but it's something else. And it's our choice to turn away and to, you know, set up our own, set up our own system. And that's hubris. Right?
Reed:Hubris. I think of the Greek myths, or the Roman equivalent. And a lot of those gods were not, they were all powerful in their own way, but a lot of them and in Norse mythology too. A lot of them were not good. Yeah.
Reed:They were they were seeking more power. They were seeking, seeking to subdue, free will. And and I think that's that's an interesting dichotomy we have where where we would where those gods expected to be worshiped even though they weren't worthy of it.
Derek:Yeah. And and and they could compel. And so, like, going back to the pet with the slippers in heaven, god's plan can't have compulsion if he wants, his children to be like him. And and so that's fine, except that as soon as we get a little bit of power, then we wanna, like, try it out on stuff.
Bryn:Oh, it changes changes the scenario
Reed:a lot.
Derek:Yeah. So so we want we want to, you know, kinda, like like Burger King used to say, we wanna have it our way. Have it
Bryn:our way. Hey. Yeah. Here's the I love the the way you guys have kind of, looked at this. But, but and for a guy who overanalyzes everything, that's what I'm accused of at home frequently, is having a plan a, b, c.
Bryn:I might even have a d that I over analyze everything. But the one thing that I don't try to over analyze is the direction my life goes. I'd like to think I'm on a kayak, and I'm, kayaking down the Columbia River. And I have really no I know where the end point's gonna be. I'm not really sure I'm gonna get there.
Bryn:And I don't really know if if I'm controlling it or the river's controlling me. And
Reed:Oh, lovely.
Bryn:And I kinda like that. And the older I get, the more I like to just roll with the waves and to just basically let the river take me. Right?
Reed:Like, sort of the Garth rickshaw. Yeah.
Derek:Yeah. So, Brynn, I I love that. I love that analogy. When I was, getting trained on, white water canoeing a number of years ago, the guide said, either you're forward paddling or you're back paddling, but you're paddling. All the time.
Derek:Yeah. Because if you're not if you're not paddling, if you're not exerting force on the water, you have no control. You can't steer. Correct. You can you can you can paddle back or you can paddle forward.
Derek:In either way, you've got control over your boat. And, but you can't control, you know, like we talked about as natural laws or whatever, you can control your response, but you can't control what's around the corner in the rapids. No. Right? You you can't.
Derek:And and, you know, this COVID thing is interesting because, you know, we want the modeling. We want, we want to be able to predict exactly what's gonna happen when the government, you know, institutes a policy, and that's not how life works. And so the answer isn't to control. It's not to over plan your life, because, you know, it never works out. But it is to have the kind of resilience where you can do your part and then, you know, leave it in the hands of a higher power, which actually
Bryn:The other thing too is that you can paddle and really not even recognize your paddling. You're just doing it because it's it's a natural thing. Right? And you're right.
Derek:You can you can build up habits that, you know, put you in good stead all the time that become less effort because they're more natural to you. So anyway, that's my my sense is that drivers constraints, the ultimate conflict is like CS Lewis said, it's those who say to God, thy will be done, and those where we say, actually, you know, I got this.
Reed:Yeah.
Derek:And, you know, he says, well well Okay then. Then. Yeah. See how that work. See how that works for you.
Bryn:Roll with it, baby.
Derek:So and, you know, a lot of times we have enough experiences where we we we come back and we say, actually, you know, I I want I want back on. I want it your way. And in fact, my life, you know, I go through cycles. Sometimes there's multi cycles in a day Yeah. Or, you know, where I'm off off the track and back on the track.
Derek:So let me let me just slide onto our last component of essential dynamics, the individual and the group, the people side of people, path, and purpose. And just a few things there. One of them is that on the individual side, you know, we talk about agency and accountability, and so each of us, you know, we have our own kayak. We're responsible for, you know, our own reaction to what's going on around us. But if, if you think about that, the first great commandment as taught by Jesus in the New Testament is to to love God with all our heart, you know, and soul.
Derek:And the second great commandment is like unto it, and that's to love thy neighbor as thyself. And, each of us are both an actor, in this in this, life and a reagent for other people to deal with and, you know, and act upon or or be affected by. And so this idea of the the tension between the individual and the group is highlighted by the fact that we're our own bosses, but we're, asked to love, you know, all of our brothers and sisters. And that's not particularly easy. So now this has gone on for a while, and this is fun.
Derek:Let me let me kind of get back to Christmas then. So a couple of things. One, we talked about this idea of divine help, and that we can't, you know, the the hero can't accomplish the task without a lot of support along the way and miraculous intervention. So that's one thing. The other thing is that, if there's this ultimate objective of actually becoming more like, heavenly parents, you know, and and so that means to, like, not be bad.
Derek:That's means to not have bad attitudes and bad tendencies, but to be, you know, selfless and good and noble. We don't do that that well all the time. We have our moments, but we don't do that all that way. So so now we come to Christmas. So Christmas is a celebration of the birth of Jesus Christ.
Derek:Jesus Christ had a short mortal ministry that was recorded in the New Testament and, and then, kept alive through the centuries, in various interpretations and stuff like that. But I think the the basic, life of Jesus Christ is, is, you know, generally understood. And I think he helped us in three ways. First of all, there was his message, what he taught people, which was, you know, to love your enemies, that you should be, you know, you should be like our heavenly father and love everyone and, you know, just be good and, you know, love your enemies. Be kind, sacrifice, be operate a moral.
Derek:So and he taught that. And he taught it in a revolutionary way that really upset the, the the power structure that was in the Jewish religion at the time. So he so he taught, but he he also was the example of that. And, he he he held no political office or even, you know, sort of religious office within the structure of his time. But he sought out the weak and the poor, and he he actually, you know, miraculously healed them, and he lifted them up.
Derek:And he, he was an example of everything that he taught. And and I I think we can be confidently say we haven't seen another person that was a perfect example of everything that that they taught. But then the third thing is that he actually, through this idea of his, his suffering, crucifixion, and resurrection, is he actually paid the price not only for our misdeeds, our sins, but also for, our aspirations and, you know, shortcomings between where we would like to be and where we actually are, and also paid the price for the impact of the harshness of this mortal life and of other people on, you know, on us as we go through. So if you think about the past, if every time you made a mistake and you wandered off the path, you're now heading in that direction and you couldn't correct, then, you know, it would be hopeless. If every time you, got to the toll bridge and yet to pay for all the messes you've made to that point, and you didn't have any cash to pay, you know, it would be hopeless.
Derek:And so this idea that we've got, a teacher, an exemplar, and a mediator or redeemer, gives you hope that you can overcome, you know, all these challenges. Now if we go back to this idea of purpose x and purpose y, the whole plan was that we would mess up in a process of learning. And, if ultimately the goal is to get a hundred percent on an exam, the the beauty of this is we keep getting a new sheet every time, and every time we can get a few more questions right. And this isn't about, you know, some black mark in heaven kind of thing. It's about who we become.
Derek:It's about how we learn. And we learn through doing the right thing, and we learn through doing the wrong thing if the wrong thing doesn't completely stop our progress. And so we need a way out of we need a way out of that. So when you think about this idea that, there was a eternal plan set up to set us on a quest, where we had to go through the experiences. We had the companionship.
Derek:We had the mentor. We had some, you know, tools, but we also have the ability to absolutely get out of any pit that we fall in. Then this is a quest that's, you know, it's full of hope even in the face of all these terrible challenges that that we face, whether that's disease, depression, betrayal from, from someone that's close, missed opportunities, you know.
Reed:The whole gamut of
Derek:The whole the whole everything.
Reed:Of life experience. Because of the things that everybody experiences in life.
Derek:Yeah. So the resolution of purpose x and purpose y is yes. I'll let you mess up, and I'll let I'll give you a way out. But only if you choose it.
Bryn:And you mean you
Reed:can't choose for yourself.
Derek:And you have to be able to choose.
Bryn:The thing for being here is and you guys celebrate Christmas as a celebration, and I look at Christmas as a reflection and an opportunity to take a look at where I am at this point in my life. And one of the things that I've come to the conclusion and it's funny because it's not a Christmas movie, but yet you see it every Christmas. I'm not talking about Die Hard. I'm talking about It's a Wonderful Life. Okay?
Bryn:That movie was shot in the middle of the summer in the blazing heat in Los Angeles. It was filmed in July. Wasn't meant to be a Christmas movie, but the message resonates with with people at Christmas more than any other time. And that is, what have I done with my life to touch others? How have I made somebody else's life, you know, better?
Bryn:And the one thing my dad always used to say to me was make sure you leave the, you know, leave your friends and the world in a better place. And so for me, I reflect heavily at this time of year, not just on Christmas day, at this time of year about have I done enough to make other people's lives more complete. And that's really what my purpose is here on this planet. And and so that I And so I use this I use that movie as a that movie is one of my all time favorites because if you weren't born, how would somebody else's life have been been turned around or spun around? And if you get the opportunity to really seriously think about it, maybe you start to figure out exactly why you're here in the first place.
Reed:Yeah.
Bryn:So for me, this is a huge time of year, and, it's gone from being a religious holiday to me to being a personal life experience where every year I get an opportunity just to sit there on a very quiet family driven day and think to myself, have I done enough here to make everybody else's life worthwhile? It's never been what's how is it affecting me? That's not what it's that's not why I'm here. I'm here to try to make everybody else feel better.
Reed:Anyway I I I love that. I love that. My you you talk about feeling uncomfortable about being an inspiration to others, and yet you are an inspiration to me. And I'm very grateful that, that you have gone through what you have because you teach me that way. My personal thing is I want to be ultimately I at the at the end of the day, I want to be useful.
Reed:And I don't know often that I am. And I I hope that I am. I don't know about inspirational. I don't I I thought for a long time when I was young that that was necessary to be an example and to be to be kind of like the the proud warrior that comes in on a horse and saves the damsel in distress. And I thought that was the the ultimate.
Reed:But, I've been humbled since then. And I I know I've never been that on that horse. And I've never been the the the hero of anyone's life except maybe my own. And I am all I'm trying to be now is useful in some
Bryn:way. Keep riding the kayak, my friend. You will find it eventually. Yeah.
Derek:It'll come to you.
Bryn:So But but Appreciate it. I just Derek, this has been, like, we've been talking for, like, about almost fifty minutes here, and I could Really?
Derek:This is
Reed:our longest podcast.
Bryn:Well, it is. And you know what? I could keep drinking my hot chocolate here and listening to you two guys chat and completely understand and get where you're at. And all it does is it just it just helps me fine tune where I'm going. And as I said, I'm on that kayak.
Bryn:I'm on that river, and, I know where I'm gonna finish eventually, but how I get from point a to point b can be changed dramatically from day to day. And I'm prepared to take it on, and I'm really excited to buy it. And, and like I said, this is a time of reflection for me. And Sure. Sure.
Bryn:So I, I I love exactly how you've spelled it out, Derek. It's been fantastic.
Reed:Yeah. Yeah. Derek, you really have. And, Brynn, thank you for what you said. I just feel, just remember on Christmas day this year, if you're looking to ask yourself if you've done enough, just have you sent me a present.
Bryn:Gift bags. That's the other thing too. The other two words that are very important at this time of year, gift bags. Exactly.
Reed:That's right. Derek, have you got anything else to say about just to close us off on on Christmas? Because you put us certainly in a very contemplative mood.
Derek:Yeah. You know, I I appreciate this conversation a lot. It's like I said, I think our our attraction to the quest is because it it really is our life journey. And it's nice to be able to step away from it and see it played out on a stage somewhere, so that then we can kinda reaffirm that that we do make a difference. Yeah.
Derek:That we can overcome, that there is divine help. And and those are the things that allow us to just make good day to day decisions and be good people and help other people. Reid or Brent, I'm reminded of the, and let's close with this, the the story of, a Christian church in Europe. It's blown up by a bomb in one of the world worst. And, as they put the pieces together, there was a statue of Jesus Christ, which they were able to reassemble, except they couldn't find the hands.
Derek:So the statue was complete. It was outstretched arms that ended in the wrist, and there's no hands. And so they were gonna find the sculptor and recast hands and patch the don, and someone had a better idea. They just put a sign on it that said, I have no hands but yours. And and so all of us, you know, have the potential to be forces for good, where we are the divine help that other people need.
Derek:And, and I believe that this whole plan was set up, so that we don't, we don't learn individually. Everything's a group project. And, and we have the opportunity to express love and kindness to someone just by not being irritated by them.
Reed:You
Derek:know, in the one hand, on the other hand, reaching out to someone clearly in need. And the other hand, Reid, there's people that you've influenced that you don't know about. Oh, yeah. And and one of the things that I think is fantastic about believing, truly believing that there is a life after this one is the chance to find out in that next phase of our existence what really went on and who we really helped in this life. And and that's, I think, the message of It's a Wonderful Life.
Derek:It's a great way to do it is that we all have an opportunity to be, you know, in in my words, the Savior's hands to lift up other people. And and what a great opportunity to think about it, you know, at this time and to, you know, ask ourselves on our quest, you know, are we are we, you know, helping other people on theirs? Because ultimately, the only way to be successful on our quest is if you forget about it and lose your life in the service of other people. And then you'll find yourself at the top of the mountain.
Reed:Merry Christmas. Happy holidays. And until we meet again, consider your quest.