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What if you could get more of what you want in life? But not through pushing, forcing, or pressure.
You can.
When it comes to money, time, and energy, no one’s gonna turn away more.
And Kate Northrup, Bestselling Author of Money: A Love Story and Do Less and host of Plenty, is here to help you expand your capacity to receive all of the best.
As a Money Empowerment OG who’s been at it for nearly 2 decades, Kate’s the abundance-oriented best friend you may not even know you’ve always needed.
Pull up a chair every week with top thought leaders, luminaries, and adventurers to learn how to have more abundance with ease.
Welcome to Plenti. Today we're doing something super unusual, which is that we are posting here an episode of a podcast that I was on with one of my best friends in the world, Sarah Tacy Tangredi. So Sarah is our resident nervous system healing expert within relax money, and she recently nervous system is because of my I know about the nervous system is because of my relationship with Sarah. And honestly, the conversation was so good and so illustrative of why she's a teacher inside our program that I asked her if we could publish this episode here on Plenty as well, and she said yes. In this episode, she asks me questions about some of the hardest moments in my life in the last 5 years.
Kate Northrup:And because she's one of my best friends, the conversation is a different kind of conversation than you might get otherwise, and that's why I wanted to share it with you today. So enjoy the deep dive, enjoy the deeper learning about the nervous system and money, and here's the episode. Welcome to plenty. I'm your host, Kate Northrup. And together, we are going on a journey to help you have an incredible relationship with money, time, and energy, and to have abundance on every possible level.
Kate Northrup:Every week, we're gonna dive in with experts and insights to help you unlock a life of hunting. Let's go fill our cups.
Voice Over:Please note that the opinions and perspectives of the guests on the Plenty podcast are not necessarily reflective of the opinions and perspectives of Kate Northrop or anyone who works within the Kate Northrop brand.
Sarah Tangredi:Just gonna take a moment. Speaking out loud. Feet on the ground. Welcome to Threshold Moments. Today, we have with us Kate Northrup.
Sarah Tangredi:This is the first time I've had someone on for the 2nd time.
Kate Northrup:Woah. I'm so honored. Mhmm.
Sarah Tangredi:And it's not because there are shortage of amazing people to talk to, but I feel like since we last talked, so much has happened. And I also there's a launch of a new program that I wanna talk about. And I feel like this threshold that we would talk about would be about the threshold between scarcity and plenty. You know, when we're not reporting together, I'll do your your bio. I usually do a bio Great.
Sarah Tangredi:I feel like it's
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Yeah.
Sarah Tangredi:All of this.
Kate Northrup:Let's just go in. Yeah.
Sarah Tangredi:I'm just gonna go in. And I know you've told the story probably a number of times of the time in your life where you began to switch your mindset from scarcity from, like, I am responsible for creating content that will be supportive to my family, supportive to all my employees. I am a mom. I am a wife and, like, feeling the stacking and layering and possibly looking for an external number too that could make you feel safe. And I'm wondering if you could speak to us about your process of shifting from the inside of you before waiting for the outside.
Sarah Tangredi:We're just really joking.
Kate Northrup:No. I mean, this is great. This is all that matters. So, you know, it's funny. As you ask this question, I as I told you before we started recording, I'm gonna ask you a few questions.
Kate Northrup:So I'm gonna tell a story, and then I'm gonna tell 2 different stories. Well, sort of it's a 3 parter. It's all the same story that answers this question. And then I would love to hear you explain from a nervous system perspective in your language, which is a little bit different than my nervous system language, what was going on there? Because I have an understanding of it, but I also wanna learn from you.
Kate Northrup:And I think it's illustrative for listeners of what is going on when we think it's just like there's not enough money. And sometimes that's true, but sometimes it's not. And so today, in this story and then and then maybe with some of Sarah's reflection, we can identify. We can help you identify who are listening. What's the difference between when there's actually just not enough money or when I'm stuck in a loop of scarcity?
Kate Northrup:So okay. Knowing that that's a spectrum and there's like a lot of gray area there. Okay. So what happened was I left Maine, sort of unexpectedly. And, when we got to Florida in early 2021, my husband, Mike, became incredibly ill very fast with a repeat of an illness that he had been struggling with for the past two and a half, yeah, two and a half, almost 3 years, called topical steroid withdrawal, TSW, or and also steroid withdrawal.
Kate Northrup:It's also called red man syndrome. So if anybody has that or wants to look it up, you can you can check that out. It's awful. And, it's it's somewhat mysterious because it's not like you go to the doctor and there's a diagnosis and there's a clear protocol. Like, when you go to the doctor and you have this, they suggest that, they're going to prescribe steroids, and it is infuriating.
Kate Northrup:So it's like the the toxic loop of our medical system that was not helping us. And so there we were. We had moved to Miami somewhat unexpectedly to help Mike heal because of the weather and the humidity, and it was better for her skin. And we were paying for 2 lives. Suddenly, we had this full life in Miami in Maine, and then now we had another extra life in in Miami, in a one of the most expensive cities in the country.
Kate Northrup:And suddenly, like, private school tuition and blah blah blah blah blah blah. And my husband was really sick, and I had a 2a half year old, almost 3 year old, and a 5 4 year old, 4 or 5, somewhere in there. And it and then also our team and, you know, I was, like, primary parent, primary breadwinner leading this company, and it just felt like too much. And I was in a loop, and that loop that you mentioned, Sarah, was, okay. If Mike could just get better and make money, everything would be fixed.
Kate Northrup:So, we had a session with our therapist, David, who's very thematically tuned in, and he also does a lot of internal family systems parts work. And David was like, Okay, Kate. Go inside and imagine that Mike like, close your eyes and imagine imagine that Mike has walked in the door and he said, babe, I just made $10,000,000 So now you do not need to work. In fact, we could close the business, like whatever you want. And so, I had expected a particular response to that information.
Kate Northrup:But the response that I received from inside myself was shocking, which is that I instantly felt flatlined and depressed and dead inside. And I was disturbed by that because what it helped me to realize was that I had been operating using stress and pressure as a stimulant. And what I now know about the nervous system that I was learning at the time was that basically my nervous system was developed in an environment where it received the message. What it means to be alive is to feel a constant level of stress and pressure. Like being alive means stress and pressure.
Kate Northrup:And so, I was finding any opportunity to manufacture stress and pressure, and I didn't even know I was doing it. And I was in that moment projecting into this fantasy future that I thought would fix everything and realizing that actually my body was addicted to the stress and the pressure. So, I just want to I'm going to stop there. And I want to know from you, like, are what other layers are going on there in the nervous system? And then I'll tell you what I did about it Because what I did about it is not make more money.
Kate Northrup:And, also, Mike didn't overnight make 10,000,000. That's not what fixed it.
Sarah Tangredi:I mean, I don't see parts of your story where you're like, oh, there's a gap. She's totally missing this piece of the story. I'm hearing it. I'm like, wow. You hear that so clearly.
Sarah Tangredi:I imagine if I heard, like, someone's gonna make $10,000,000, I imagine that I would feel relaxed. And and I'm gonna share this. I'm not sure I've shared this out loud before. When I started dating Steve, I always was looking at, like, do I have any hidden agendas? Is it attractive to me that he someday is gonna be a dentist?
Sarah Tangredi:And another part that actually showed up was, like, I was scared shitless that if he became a dentist and was out earning me, then my work wouldn't matter and that I wouldn't be able to do my work. I'm sorry. I totally just switched from you to me. I wouldn't be able to do my work because if the amount of money I made with it didn't make a difference to our family's well-being, then my work no longer mattered. So I had an over coupling of the amount I make and my worth.
Sarah Tangredi:And when I first heard your story, I also wondered if there was an over coupling of your worth and how much you make or produce or how successful you are. So I was wondering
Kate Northrup:That is so a missing piece. Okay. And that's been coming up in our relax money coaching sessions, and it's been coming up everywhere. And so it's so interesting that it's coming up again. And I for is because it's something that I'm so aware of is happening with other people, and I don't think I saw the thread that it was happening in this scenario.
Kate Northrup:So, in addition to, you know, kind of the nervous system soup that my body developed in, not only was it stress and pressure, you know, financially, but just like general stress and pressure. It was also a lot of stress and pressure around performance, specifically academic performance. So, it was, I think, that overcoupling of our inherent worth with our earnings or with our performance or with our achievement is something to really dial into, and it's, again, like, it's system pattern. So thank you for saying that. I think that's really profound and it adds in I knew there was gonna be an added layer.
Kate Northrup:So, so then I had this other coach because it takes a village, and she was we have, like, a couple's one. We have a personal one. And I was in this, like, massive it felt like a crazy financial contraction. I was like, I'm paying for these 2 lives. My husband like contraction, contraction, contraction.
Kate Northrup:It felt so squeezy, but I had shared with her about the flatlining with imagining that Mike had brought home a whole bunch of money. And so she suggested an exercise that I do, like an experiment, and we came up with it together. And she said, okay, so what's an amount of money that you would feel comfortable either going into your savings or going into the hole, like going into debt or credit line or whatever, that you just know because of past experience and you know your capability as a business owner that you could just make back if you needed to relatively quickly. And I was like, okay. Well, I I'll I know that number.
Kate Northrup:So I decided that I would either get to that amount of money of overspending, like, high you know, more than our more than our income or 90 days. So one or the other, whichever I hit first, 90 days or this amount of money in the hole. And until that time, I was going to just practice what it would be like to relax even though I didn't have good evidence that it was a good time to do so. And by relax, what that meant for me was to not mount a new marketing campaign to come up with more income because that was always my old behavior. It was like, let me ramp up and get something going to create money, which I can totally do.
Kate Northrup:And many entrepreneurs know how to do that. But it was from an originating point of stress and pressure as opposed to from a place of pleasure and joy and surrender and trust. So I was like, okay, I'm not going to do that behavior. And I just you know, I did a lot of, like, watching TV in the middle of the day and laying in bed crying. I had so much emotion that needed to be felt.
Kate Northrup:So when I say relaxation, it wasn't like I was like it wasn't really a joyful time, I'll be perfectly honest. It was like a really sad time, And I would be interested to hear about that also from this perspective perspective. But, what ended up happening in the three d reality is that we didn't go into the hole at all. We actually hit all of our financial goals and I didn't have to ramp up to do something extra. I just kept doing the things we had already agreed to do and delivering on what we had already decided to offer and we made enough money.
Kate Northrup:And it was a freaking revelation of, like, wait a second. I didn't have to ramp up in order to for this to happen. I didn't have to clench a certain amount for there to be abundance. It the abundance was there when I relaxed. And, and then, within that 90 days, Mike fell off his bike and broke his knee.
Kate Northrup:So then he couldn't walk also, and that was just like, okay. Great. So the stakes are now higher. How are you going to relax now? And I was like, Yes.
Kate Northrup:And then 18 months later, something happened behind the scenes in my company where a lot of our team The Goddess basically came in and had heard a request that I had had, and she just facilitated it happening, in a way that felt really hard. So we had massive team changes going on. We were working with basically, it was like me and Mike and one other part time person. And we were gonna do this launch of our first round of relaxed money. And, a week before we were starting promotion, Mike got hit by a car.
Kate Northrup:Ugh. And he while he was riding his bike and and had a massive traumatic fracture to the same knee he had broken 18 months before. So he had to have a week in the hospital, 2 surgeries, and he was on crutches for 3 months. And so then again, it was like, hey, So you're gonna relax now? And I was like, yes.
Kate Northrup:Yes. I am. And so we delayed the launch because, you know, our family was kind of, like, hanging on by a thread. And it wasn't like we had all this extra where it was like, oh, great. I can just delay this launch, you know, infinitely, and and we'll be fine.
Kate Northrup:Like, my company is the way that my family eats and that our team gets paid. There's not like there isn't really plan b in our lives. Like, this is this is the plan. And so it requires a great level of, like, trusting in that relaxation, like, required me to tap into something so much bigger than spreadsheets and like emergency funds and like really to tap into source with a capital s and, heal some patterning. And and so and then in the end, that launch of relax money, the first time out of the gate was our biggest launch we've ever had.
Kate Northrup:It blew my mind. It was it was it went so well, and it was so easy in in flow. I was just, like, like checking behind my computer,
Kate Northrup:like what is happening?
Kate Northrup:And the only thing I can say is money really responds to relaxation.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. I can imagine so many listeners go, my experience is that money responds to hustle. And so what I imagine is that when you slow down, like, we switch the word to slow down instead of relaxed.
Kate Northrup:Love it.
Sarah Tangredi:Many people feel like they're going to die. I felt that way for like, if if I go this slow, will I survive? Because the way I found success in the past was to be tenacious. Yes. Was to just keep going.
Sarah Tangredi:And there's something probably like you said that my system, gets addicted. Like, I can feel it during the day if I'm if I get into the mode of if I check off all these to do's, then I can relax, like, I can still get into that mode. And, and I can feel it. And so to say that there's a possibility of another way is a great leap that you don't necessarily have a ton of proof. And the universe keeps giving you examples of actually, it's it's less safe than you think.
Sarah Tangredi:And if I were to describe what I think happens in the nervous system is that when we move from familiar to optimal, I've said this a few times on the podcast. So for some listeners, you've heard this before that all of our cells have receptor cells. And they're all waiting for these ligands to make a connection. And they What
Kate Northrup:are they called? Ligands. Leggins. Just I'm just taking notes.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. This is this is the work of Candace Pert, and it's
Kate Northrup:Oh, she's so amazing.
Sarah Tangredi:She's fascinating.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm. Her
Sarah Tangredi:work is fascinating. And so the images I get from this is like, you learn how to salsa together, like you you learn a specific dance that these 2 do together. And when on a cellular level you decide to change, now the emotional the emotional peptide, the ligand, has nothing to connect to, and it feels like abandonment. Right? Like, you're left dancing on the dance floor by yourself, and there's no one to say, like, oh, this is the thing that generally makes you feel good.
Sarah Tangredi:This is the connection that makes you feel good. And so there has to be, ice I am borrowing the term the tension field from biodynamic craniosacral therapy. And I may slightly be misusing it, but this idea of hanging out in a field of a new possibility before the before a matching ligand meets you, before someone comes up to, like, be And
Kate Northrup:it's literally like being the first person on the dance floor at a wedding where you just have to, like, awkwardly just be there until the one person joins and then the 2 people and then suddenly it's a dance party. But it is uncomfortable.
Sarah Tangredi:And so it takes resourcing. Right? So the definition of if a definition of stress that I heard from Jerry Molitor is that stress is when we have more demands than resources, then when you're going through something and you know you're going into attention field, you know that you're trying to do a new pattern, then you're gonna wanna say, like, what resources do I have? So at this time, Mike is out. You have more demands with your kids, and you could see that you have more demands with work, but you're now looking at, like, well, I have this therapist.
Sarah Tangredi:I am doing this nervous system work. I am utilizing these things to help me at a time where I feel like I might die if I try this new pattern. Because when people talk about like, I changed on a cellular level. You did. I did.
Sarah Tangredi:You did. You literally your cells shifted, and then you're waiting for your chemistry. You're going through a withdrawal, and you're waiting for chemistry to meet it.
Kate Northrup:Oh my god. That's so true.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. It's like
Kate Northrup:It's so good. I'm just over here, like, taking copious notes
Kate Northrup:because that's exactly what it felt like. And when you said the resourcing piece, so one of my main regulation practices and practices of resourcing is communing with nature. And at the time, I was living on the 41st floor of a high rise. And so, I didn't feel like amongst a lot of other tall buildings in, like, streets where there was a lot of trash. And coming from a fairly woodsy area in Maine, like, it just felt like sort of an assault on my system.
Kate Northrup:And when I would do a grounding meditation, it's like drop the grounding cord, and I could just feel my grounding cord dangling around the 20th floor. It couldn't
Kate Northrup:make it all the way down.
Kate Northrup:So, what I would do is I would go downstairs. Even if I only had 10 minutes, I would go downstairs, which took forever in the elevator, and I would walk out to the waterfront, which had this kind of like you know, sidewalk along it, and I would just sit on the wall on the water wall thing and just look at the ocean and allow my body to receive the energy of the ocean. And I I know that that's probably for some people, they're like, how do you do that? And for me, it's a little hard to describe, so maybe you have better language for it. But it's literally just kind of like attuning my energy to the ocean.
Kate Northrup:It's like I'm feeling the ocean's frequency and then just, like, letting it come into my body.
Sarah Tangredi:It reminds me a little bit of the exercise we did with your mastermind when we ask the outside person in a partnership to resource from something greater than themselves so that when you're a mother or you're a business person, if you're pulling from your own well all the time that it could feel like too much. So we practiced. We were also looking at the ocean then. Could we look at the ocean and could we start to attune to the ocean and imagine her energy as this wellspring as we sit and listen to this person's story, not to heal them, not to just like but could we be resourced from another place instead of thinking that we're the battery for somebody else? And the another thing that might be helpful for listeners is that oftentimes when we look out to nature, what happens is that our head moves back in space.
Sarah Tangredi:So if you imagine, like, the backside of your ears, not the behind part, but the furthest back, that starts to move back and our gaze starts to go more peripheral. And when that happens, our breath pattern changes. It becomes more, like, it spreads throughout the entire body, the front, back, up, down, and the nervous system then thinks it's safe. Right? When we're, like, fleeing something, we get, like, more directed.
Sarah Tangredi:Our head goes forward. And when we look at the setting sun, when we look at a mountain range, our head shifts back, our breath pattern changes without trying to. And we start to attune to the pace of nature because our body is nature. So our body gets in tune with itself. I just
Kate Northrup:makes me wanna cry.
Kate Northrup:Oh, good. Oh, good. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:So that's what I did. I mean, that's the most practical thing I can say I would do. I would just and then I would also just ask the the ocean if she had anything to tell me. And then I would listen. And, and I don't really remember exactly like what the messages were, but they were often marketing questions.
Sarah Tangredi:I love that.
Kate Northrup:I couldn't simply go sort of ask mother nature what she thought I should do about our various marketing strategies. And it was very clarifying. That's that's kind of how I shifted on a cellular level the very way you described, but I wanna go back to that part where we feel like we're gonna die when we change a pattern. Yeah. That was that was the I remember our mutual friend, Eliza, who's been on the podcast in her episode.
Kate Northrup:It was wonderful. Excuse me. She one day called me on FaceTime just checking in, and I was really in it and I was just like everything felt so sad. I was just in a lot of grief and I couldn't stop crying. And she was like, it makes sense that you are crying because there's a part of you that's dying and you're just doing such a beautiful job dying.
Kate Northrup:She just
Kate Northrup:sat on FaceTime with me while I cried and we just kind of cried together. And it literally felt like and there were so many layers for me at that time around identity and moving from this small town where I'd grown up and family stuff. And it really was it really was like a like certainly an ego death, but then also just a dying of old ways. And it was like, it was really painful. So, but so worth it because when we do that, when we're, when we go out in the field and wait while we feel like we're gonna die for the new ligand to show up.
Kate Northrup:Like, love that. So good.
Sarah Tangredi:We called it a molecule of emotion. Yes. Anyone really, like, hold on to what the ligand is. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:Exactly. And, and what happens is, like, I do this thing when I'm trying something new or, like wanting to do something that makes me uncomfortable that requires a new part of myself, whether it's, you know, sitting down to work on my book proposal or, you know, yesterday I was doing an arm workout and, you know, and it's the it's what you teach about titration. It's like, okay, I can just I can stay, like, I can stay 3 more minutes. Like, I can stay 3 more minutes. And then after that, if I wanna check my phone, I can do that.
Kate Northrup:If I wanna just, like, not do the last set, I can do that. Inevitably, for me, usually, after 3 minutes, I'm like, well, I can stay for 5 minutes. And, you know or maybe sometimes I don't. And so that ability, like, it doesn't have to be, you know, you you come from a, like, a hardcore athletics background. I come from this, like, really intense academic background.
Kate Northrup:And, and then we both have all this achievement stuff. So it's really like what we were taught or what I was taught is that you just have to push through and have grit. And so, I want to highlight that standing in the field, changing the pattern, feeling like you're going to die is not the same thing as pushing past your comfort zone and just overpowering your boundaries to change. It's actually for me, it's like doing small doable parts. So it was like, during that time of my life, I also felt really angry.
Kate Northrup:So I felt a lot of sadness and I felt
Kate Northrup:a lot of grief. So it was like, okay, I feel so
Kate Northrup:angry right now. I can just go in the lot of grief. So, it was like, okay, I feel so angry right now. I can just go in the closet and for 30 seconds, scream into a pillow. I don't have to do anything more than that.
Kate Northrup:Just something to relieve the energy, to move through an emotional stress loop, whatever it is. And so that that feeling of I'm gonna die, it's not like we have to stay there forever. Like, we can stay there a little bit and then go find comfort or resourcing or whatever. Right?
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. And so I'm really loving that you brought up titration because our conversation could have sounded very all or nothing. Mhmm. Leave the familiar. You must leave what feels safe and go die in the field until Anita was born.
Kate Northrup:Sounds awful.
Sarah Tangredi:By yourself. Yeah. It doesn't have to. And, like, my voice just went really high. It doesn't have to.
Sarah Tangredi:Titration is this idea of, oh, Bridget would say like, I don't know that she would say this is the definition of titration, but she often says small doable pieces over time. And the idea of pendulation, which we I'm gonna say always, I try not to use always, but very often use in somatic work is, first, we'll find health. Right? Let's look for any piece of health, anything. And I think you have this in one of your nervous system support programs on relax money.
Sarah Tangredi:Look for any part in your body that feels like stability, any part that finds feels like health. And then we might pendulate to something that's challenging, and we would put it in the company of health. Mhmm. So we're not it's not necessarily it doesn't have to be a death in the middle of the field by yourself.
Voice Over:Right.
Sarah Tangredi:Point of getting resources would be that you were on the phone with Eliza. Yeah. That's so I there's this idea of creating conditions so that as the charge gets bigger, then we can we're able to stay with that higher charge when we've created more conditions in our life. And conditions include pause. They include welcoming your anger and your grief.
Sarah Tangredi:They include, healthy friendships
Kate Northrup:and
Sarah Tangredi:boundaries and right relations. So there's a whole slew of things that falls under creating conditions. And on the other part of that three direction math, if we didn't if we weren't able to complete that whole loop where we were out on the field, we have enough resources, we get to the new way of being. In between, we get to soothe and distract. You know, like you said, we can we can jump on the phone.
Sarah Tangredi:We can maybe get out one more email than we thought we were going to. It's like it gives a little bit of that old self. Like, okay. I won't, like, scare you all the way. So we get to do it over time.
Sarah Tangredi:And, actually, if you don't mind me saying this, we can edit anything so you can tell me if it's okay to say this is that somebody on one of the relax money calls, so everyone listening, once a month, I go on and I support the program. And we do a nervous system support portion, and it's an hour long. And at the end, they get to ask questions. And somebody asked a question. They were, like, really amazed of how and I don't remember the example, but it was a public example you gave of just saying, like, no to this really big deal and, like, choosing something else.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. I remember what it was. I'm happy to show share the story after.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. So I'll I'll just share it. Like, they're like, I just, you know, for them, it felt like I just don't know if I can do that. Like, I don't know. I'm even saying, like, oh, is this okay for whoever is the sharer is just to say that much?
Sarah Tangredi:And my response was that whenever you made that decision, whatever it was, there had been so many layers and times of practice before that. And although we have practice doing hard things, life generally gives us opportunities where they're like, oh, great job. Try this next one. But we've learned a bit more how to resource ourselves while we're doing those hard things. So it's not that it's easy and that we can some of them.
Sarah Tangredi:So some of them are these quantum leap moments, but often because we've done so many small steps along the way. Yeah. Yeah. I love that so much.
Kate Northrup:Okay. There's a couple layers there that I wanna share, and it has to do with community. And and and then I have a couple of questions to ask you about how you lead those sessions in relax money, if that's okay. I mean, I know we basically, like, we're we are still talking about your first question, but I think that's all we're doing. Yes.
Kate Northrup:Great.
Sarah Tangredi:I know I had, like, 20 more. I was like, well, this is
Kate Northrup:what you're doing.
Sarah Tangredi:Talking about it. But actually so I want you to say those layers. Before you say the layers, I wanna highlight something that I don't want to get missed and what happened so far. What has happened so far is that maybe we'll get to double binds. I hope we get to double binds.
Sarah Tangredi:But what's happened so far is Kate has outlined that in real time in the 3 d world, there are real things that feel that they could be threatening or are threatening or pressures. So I think often from the outside, one could look and not because you're not real on your Instagram account or on, like, any like, it's like I think you do a great job of showing yourself. And somebody could look and go like, well, that's nice. Because x, y, and z, like, because she can because x, y, and z, and so easily can assume that that nothing was real. And so what I do want listeners to hear is, like, there was a lot real.
Sarah Tangredi:There were a lot of real things going on when you started making the small doable changes. Like, some of them were big leap and some of them are small doable changes to say, I'm gonna try on this new way of being. I wanna see what's possible. So I just want listener to hear that if you're listening and you're like, well, that's nice, but I have rent to pay. It's also not that Kate's path is the same path for you, but it can be the inquiry of, are there any areas I can relax?
Sarah Tangredi:And then maybe Kate can even say a little bit about her program after this. And we changed the word for a second from relax to
Kate Northrup:Slow down.
Sarah Tangredi:Down, and Eliza Reynolds will often or the name she's gonna
Kate Northrup:Alloway?
Kate Northrup:Well, I
Sarah Tangredi:don't know. Does she she's about to
Kate Northrup:She did. She sent out an email.
Sarah Tangredi:Okay. It's public.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. We're public.
Sarah Tangredi:Oh, she don't like that or not? Eliza Alloway. She'll say layers of comfort.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm. Layers of comfort.
Sarah Tangredi:Kinda works in this and kind of doesn't. But I think Well,
Kate Northrup:I mean, I even think about, like, this one pair of overalls that I wore, like, almost every day at
Kate Northrup:that time.
Kate Northrup:And and the way in which, like, they really were comforting on my body, and I hadn't worn overalls regularly since I was 12. And there was something about these overalls that were, like, really essential
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah.
Kate Northrup:In terms of, like, a physical feeling of layers of comfort.
Sarah Tangredi:So it was because I was thinking when you're breaking a habit, it's not we're not looking for the comfort, but we are then creating a resource of comfort. Exactly. Girls in
Kate Northrup:the situation. Right. Like like wearing a pair of overalls, which is definitely not doing any harm to anybody or anything or myself. Right? So so beautiful.
Kate Northrup:Okay. So, I definitely wanna get to double binds next, so let's go there next. So but I just wanna say about that particular instance because I'm sure that folks listening have these desires to, like, expand and go for bigger things and have a life that continues to get even more beautiful and more luscious. Right? And so at that particular time when I said no, it was a big speaking gig with, like, some of my most favorite authors and, you know, really fancy people who would be, like, a dream to be on a headline thingy with.
Kate Northrup:But it was just, like, far away, and I was nursing, and it just it was, like, if I say yes to this, I will be sacrificing things that are more important, like my physical health and my my kids. And it just and Mike was so sick at the time. That was this was the first time he was sick and I was just like, my family doesn't have the resources to actually handle this. Yes. So I said no.
Kate Northrup:And I wanted to say and then in the end, I ended up getting invited on a really big podcast that was happening at the time I would have been at that speaking gig that definitely reached way more people than I would have at the speaking gig because it's, like, virtual and it's, like, hundreds of thousands of people. And it took an hour, and I could do it, you know, in my jammies. So that was just a perfect example of, like, it's okay to say no to the big shiny thing. It doesn't mean that that was the only opportunity. Like, there's an infinite number of opportunities and they're just gonna keep coming.
Kate Northrup:And that's one of the ways I tap into plenty is just really knowing that truth. And but so in terms of our, in terms of community and being able to resource from what's possible for other people, I grew up in a household with a mom who has a very similar career or had, to what I do. And I saw her say no to fancy stuff. And I saw her not die. And I saw her prioritize our well-being and her well-being and not get caught up in the FOMO of, like, I have to chase every little thing.
Kate Northrup:And so that was such a, we I think we talk or at least, I talk a lot about unhealthy nervous system imprints, and I wanted to highlight that the nervous system receives information about things that are threats and things that are really beautiful. And so, that's a nervous system imprint I have of a feeling of safety and trust that, like, we don't have to chase the shiny object. Stuff will come to us in right timing. And that's why it's so important to spend time in healthy community, healthy, safe community, like the things that you offer, like relax money, like other things that are around so that we can co regulate and get new healthier nervous system imprints from other people who are having a lived reality of what we desire because by being around them, our nervous system recognizes, like, a, that's possible, and b, it's safe. Because look, they're right here, and our bodies don't believe the lie of separation.
Kate Northrup:They actually know that we are all waves in the same motion. Our mirror neurons can't tell the difference between if it's happening to Sarah or if it's happening to me. And so the lie of separation tells us that like, oh, must be nice for you. And the truth of our unity and our deep, deep connection will say like, oh, because that's happening for her on some level that actually is happening for me. And when we embrace it that way, we actually do heal our nervous systems and upgrade their settings.
Sarah Tangredi:So what I would offer to listeners here, if that still feels impossible in any way, like, where you look at something and said, like, I hear that, but I still feel like she could do that because she has this degree or because she has this or that. I would offer the may I show me the reticular activation tool right here to say, show me show me how so so, of course, like, what you're saying is, like, the community is offering that vision. If someone said, like, show me what it looks like to have trust in the universe to know that I'm not the only one trying to get this program done. Show me that I can lean into something greater than myself. And then I feel like when somebody sees you doing it or see someone else doing it, it feels like proof of the question they asked.
Sarah Tangredi:And if we ever look at someone and say, well, they can do that because of x, y, and z, I might say, I really love what they have. Show me in what way that's possible for me. Show me how it aligns with me. You know, not just like I don't to become them, but, like, how does that align with me, and what will my path be there? Show me my path.
Sarah Tangredi:And then in that way, we stop saying, like, well, they can do that because they were a d one athlete, so they have the tenacity. They can do that because they went to an Ivy League school. They can do that because they had we could start saying, cool. They did that, and they have these things. Show me my way
Kate Northrup:there. Show me my way.
Sarah Tangredi:Show me my way there. And that way, we can kind of take the, the comparison out a little bit and keep the inspiration and keep the curiosity, and then the brain will actually start seeing what it was missing before.
Kate Northrup:Ugh. I'm gonna
Kate Northrup:use that
Sarah Tangredi:from you. So good.
Kate Northrup:Okay. What did you wanna say about double binds? I wanna make sure we go there.
Sarah Tangredi:Oh, I actually kinda wanted to ask you this. And so so this month, I wanna do a podcast on double binds and sacred thirds. And so if I were to describe to you a double bind, it would be, I must, I can't. I must make more money. I can't make more money.
Sarah Tangredi:And there could be a whole story behind it. I must relax. I can't relax. Right? Like, yours might be like, I must relax in order to heal my nervous system, in order to be magnetic for money.
Sarah Tangredi:I can't relax. My husband is super sick. I'm a mom of 2. I need to pay the bills. So a double bind is I must, I can't.
Sarah Tangredi:And the sacred third is when we begin to look at the nuance of the 2. So if you're listening, I have my 2 fists together, and I'll do a whole podcast on this, and we'll do one with, like, parenting and finances. And, and I was wondering if you could do one on finances. So I'll just, can I use can I use the Ruby one that we talked about? Yeah.
Sarah Tangredi:Okay. I feel like this is, actually, I could use my own. I'm gonna use my own child because this this happen. We we made this reservation to go out to dinner. We let go of our childcare help.
Sarah Tangredi:Our friends said, like, we'll take your kids. My older one was like, I I'm not going and a whole panic pack ensued and she really want to go to dinner with us and we're like, we we like, we hadn't seen these people in 5 years. It was a super fancy place. There were only 4 seats. There was no room for a 5th seat.
Sarah Tangredi:It was not a kid's place. But, eventually, like, when I look at the must, I can't. Like, we must go to dinner. I can't go to dinner now because she could, like and back and forth, I was like, you know what? Sure.
Sarah Tangredi:If you wanna split a seat with dad and I and like, it just, like it was just, like, Sianna. My youngest one went to go play with her friends next door. And I don't know if this makes sense, but as we looked at it, it wasn't like, no. You absolutely can't come to dinner. Because I could you the thing is you open up one hand and you look at it like, okay, she can't come to dinner, but she can't stay here.
Sarah Tangredi:I must like and you keep looking back and forth and I was like, can she really not come to dinner? Right. Under what conditions would it be okay? And so I was like, great. Like, if you're willing to, like, bring your coloring pad and pencils, and know that it's gonna be, like, possibly not.
Sarah Tangredi:And she was just like, it was so relaxing for her to sit in between Steve and I. Like, that is her base. And as soon as she had that option, her whole body relaxed. Steve and I got to do what we wanted to do. Right?
Sarah Tangredi:Like, everyone, it was a win win win. And so one of the primary things in the alchemical alignment is that we'd love for situations to come out to a win win. And so when we look at a double bind and we start looking at nuances, sometimes there's a sacred third in the middle that seems impossible when you're, stressed. Yeah. Over the 2.
Sarah Tangredi:Yes. So I think you kinda described it already, but I'm wondering if you can think of something from relaxed money, like an example in relaxed money where there's a double bind and how relaxed money might help you find a sacred third.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Okay. I love this. So one of the things that you taught me is that when we're in either or thinking, we are in a trauma response. So when we're in a double bind, we can know, like, oh, we're dysregulated.
Kate Northrup:There is a part of me that feels a threat, and now I'm outside my range of resonance, my range of capacity. And so just knowing that really helps because it's incredibly rare that there's actually only 2 options. You know, like, it it just it just really is. Like, we can always find a way. And so, nuance requires regulation.
Kate Northrup:And what I know is that when we are dysregulated, when we are, sensing a threat, there's less cerebral spinal fluid that flows from our bodies to our brain. There's less oxygen that flows to our brain. The left and right hemispheres are not talking to each other, and we're literally just accessing, less of our capability for problem solving or seeing possibility. You know, our literal peripheral vision, shortens, narrows, and so also does our energetic peripheral vision. Our our our ability to see possibility goes away.
Kate Northrup:And so, in those moments, like, you know, I must provide for my children, or sorry. I must, let's let's pretend I mean, I think my example is a pretty good one of, like, I I so also at that part, I didn't tell this story. I didn't add to the story that my doctor, I just had my blood work done. And my doctor basically was like, based on your hormonal panel, your breaks are broken and also so is your gas. And if you keep going like this, you're going to get really sick.
Kate Northrup:And so I was also like, okay. I must take care of my body because my children cannot have 2 sick parents because then we're totally f'd. So it really did feel like I must slow down. I can't because I have to make money for the family. And so what the mindset world would have us do is change our thoughts.
Kate Northrup:But the thing is when our bodies are in a sympathetic response and they feel unsafe, a better feeling thought is generally not available. Or if we can even think of it, it feels like a lie, and our bodies know we're lying. And so, it just doesn't work. Like, you cannot think your way out of a way that your body feels. And so in relaxed money, we practice, first of all, we learn all the anatomy of the nervous system, how to know when you're dysregulated, and many, many different ways to find yourself back in a sense of safety and how to plug into source with a capital s, which is what you described with resourcing, layers of comfort, pendulation, titration.
Kate Northrup:All of these things are ways that we can plug into source with a capital s. And and and our best bet for doing that is accessing our embodiment. Access like, getting into our bodies, connecting with nature, which is the truth of who we are. I don't remember what you said, but you said something really great about when we look at nature, we come back home to ourselves or something like that because we are nature. Sounds great.
Kate Northrup:So it was great. It was. So we We come back into resonance, and it literally is what we're talking about here. Our nervous system is an entire network of of nerves that go through our entire body. It includes the brain, and it our nervous system speaks in electricity.
Kate Northrup:The communication between all the neurons, all the synapses in the brain, everything, it's electric. Our entire bodies are running on electricity. If somebody flatlines, how do we bring them back to life? We shock them with what? Electricity.
Kate Northrup:It is all energetic. That electricity has a frequency. ACDC, that was not actually originated. It did not originate as a band. It originated because it's 2 different kinds of electrical current.
Kate Northrup:And there's way more than 2 different kinds, but that's just an example that you learn, like, I don't know, in 8th grade or something. So, when we understand that our bodies are running on electricity, it becomes a lot easier to understand that dysregulation is a frequency and regulation is a frequency. And the back to the double binds, when we're in a frequency of dysregulation and fear and our nervous system is dysregulated, and we're in I must, I can't, we're in either or, we are not off. We're not like our radio is not turned to the channel of possibility, and we cannot just decide. So, a lot of people in my field will be like, just change the channel.
Kate Northrup:And I'm like, no, you can't do that with your mind. But you
Kate Northrup:can do it with your body. Your body is what changes the channel because your body is like a massive radio receiver. It's like an antenna. And so that's where we can get into, and it sounds like even just the act. And I don't know if you actually did this in the moment, but it was a great it was a great metaphor.
Kate Northrup:Even just the act of opening a palm could be a way to find another possibility because it's just representing openness. It could be swaying back and forth. It could be, you know, you taught me lower back, rib breathing. I mean, there's like a 1000000 different ways to access safety. But the name of the game is if I'm in a double bind, I just don't feel safe.
Kate Northrup:And so I need to find a way to signal to my body that I'm safe, and then trust that an idea will come through that actually is that sacred third. That is a win win win win win win win.
Sarah Tangredi:I'm loving this for so many reasons. One is that you didn't give us your actual, like, your you didn't say, like, so this was the sacred third. What you said instead and you did. You, like, didn't and you did. And I feel like what you said instead and highlighted, which feels so important and so much more beautiful than, saying, so this is the 3rd way out.
Sarah Tangredi:Like, this is the was just talking about the importance of coming back to your body, which can be hard when you're dysregulated. So in the three directions map bring that map up one more time, which we went over with your group in December. Double binds is the second direction. It's looping. And so as we create conditions, which we can do slowly over time, the new ways of being.
Sarah Tangredi:And so it sounds like you didn't just have, like, well, then I'm gonna do this with my business, and this will be my secret, like, my sacred third where my body and my like, but that actually it was a slow process of a lot of little changes of being with your body and going out and looking to the ocean. So I love that because instead of someone listening to this and thinking like, okay. I must find the site sacred third now. It's the, the permission to know that it's gonna happen so that that it could happen slowly over time and that the process may not be an idea that you can come up with right away. The other thing you said was so brilliant.
Sarah Tangredi:It's Bridget who does the fists. And sometimes when I'm trying to come up with examples, I do it with my hands. And I used to teach a lot of emotional anatomy. And I remember I would have my students make fists with their hands and then flex their wrists and watch what happened to their breath. Just by having our the fist closed, it does actually change our state a little bit.
Sarah Tangredi:And by opening the palm, as you said, I'm not sure I realized that, like, as Bridgette did it, I just realized that, like, help my brain think differently. And I'm like, oh, yeah. There is actually a physiological response to opening a palm and then to open the other palm. You think about the there's so much reason why we pray in certain ways and we do certain movements. It actually every single movement changes our physiology.
Sarah Tangredi:And so what she'll do as she's thinking them out, it's like she'll have all those statements. Like, this is true, although or and, and you start kind of, yeah, like, swaying back and forth until you just see, like you said, so much so many options. And I love also what you said something around, like, nuance requires regulation.
Kate Northrup:Okay.
Sarah Tangredi:I was gonna say Nuance requires resonance.
Kate Northrup:Yeah. Same.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. Yeah. So beautiful. It's very pure.
Kate Northrup:It's on a different radio station.
Sarah Tangredi:And I also love that because I've heard so much about, like, just tune your radio station, and that that gets to be a practice over time of changing within our body so that it just the the the end of that three direction map is that the thing that activated you at the beginning can become extinct. Meaning it could it could happen and you're like, oh, I thought I healed that pattern and and it's okay if, like, it's a lifetime thing. But a lot of times, you forget that that was even a thing. That's like when you're now listening to a new radio station and you forget that you ever tuned in to this other belief system or other way of being. Because Yeah.
Sarah Tangredi:This the thing that seemed impossible feels true. And the one more thing I wanna say about that is that the earlier on the timeline a certain reality was presented as true, the more impossible a new way can feel, which is the beauty of asking and looking for examples where someone survived a new way. And I'm just feeling like, oh, I'm talking more during this interview.
Kate Northrup:Right. It's so good. Okay. So I'm so glad you are because for those listening, like, I want them to know the depth of, knowledge and transmission that actually happens within relax money, not only from the modules that I teach, but also from you being part of the program. It's like I took 3 pages of notes as
Kate Northrup:we were doing
Kate Northrup:because I learned so much from you about our physiology, about our energetics, about the nervous system. And so, having that within our program and within our community is such an incredible gift because I do think that we can practice things It's like one thing to practice things experientially, but for myself and I think for our students, it there's such a deep gift in also understanding why it's working. Like, I think it works better to practice it when we understand why at least to some degree. And so I really appreciate how you bring it in and how you educate on that because, you know, it's one thing to just, like, teach a practice, but it's another thing to really understand in-depth why it works, and I think it helps it to land much more deeply. So I'm really grateful for for that, and I'm grateful for everything that you shared today.
Kate Northrup:So so Thank you. Like, interesting and amazing and helps me understand life better.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. And so what I'd love to say for listeners now too is that, I had heat on because I wanted to talk about this threshold because it's been such a huge thing, and I see her thriving. And the card that I pulled for our talk was after the storm. Oh. And it's this owl, and I can think of an owl as, like, wise and one that has great vision, can see, like, really far and big, but also, like, really specific, and it's holding up.
Sarah Tangredi:I forget what this is it the Macaba?
Kate Northrup:Oh, yeah.
Sarah Tangredi:It's It's like a sign that I often see when my eyes are closed. But I think, you know, something that I can highlight is being able to, like, watch you in real life, the joy that you have, the friendships you've created, the way in which you really like, you and Mike, like, actually sit down every Friday and gotten to, like,
Kate Northrup:eat a
Sarah Tangredi:few more every Friday and really talk about the things. And what we haven't talked about too much here yet is, there's so much practical monetary ideas too because you have been running a business for probably 20 years now. I was gonna say 10, but
Kate Northrup:Nope. I just waited 20. For sure. It's closer to 22. Yeah.
Kate Northrup:22. Okay.
Sarah Tangredi:So you're really good at this and money and the practical. And it used to be your first book was, like, the practical and mindset, and now I feel like there's cyclical living and nervous system included. And so I am now an affiliate for this program, and I was wondering I wanted Kate to come on so you could hear from Kate. And the reason the only reason why I said yes to this is because I've gotten to be in the program now for 6 or 7 months. So I get to see how engaged the participants are and how many changes they're making and how authentic they are and how dedicated they are.
Sarah Tangredi:And like you said, when you surround yourself with other people doing the work and the community conversation where I'm like, oh, this is this is something I can really get on board with. And also that I'm, you know, I actually am on board because because I meet with everyone once a month, and it's so great. So do you wanna say anything about the launch? Were we supposed to go anywhere else? Do you wanna say anything about the doors opening or what the program is?
Kate Northrup:I'll just do a super quick, which is that this program is the most holistic financial healing program in existence because it combines the nervous system aspects, the energetics, the spiritual, the beliefs, the emotions, the mindset, and the practical. And and not just the practical from the perspective of, like, here's how to manage your cash flow. By the way, we have an amazing system for that. But also, like, here's how to make more money, and here's how to make more money in ways that aren't trading hours for dollars, and here's how to actually get that money working for you. So it's, like, really meets you on all the possible levels of healing.
Kate Northrup:Not it's not just a personal finance course. It's not just a nervous system healing. It's not just a money mindset or just a money energetics. A lot of what I see out there is just one of those things. Listen, any of those ingredients are phenomenal, but putting them all together really accelerates growth or deepens the growth.
Kate Northrup:And so it's I teach it over 13 live modules. I think there's a real benefit of being live. They are obviously also on replay. But if folks can be in that container live, even if they're listening to the replays, there's something about, the coregulation and being able to attune your nervous system to the nervous system of the group collective and being in this environment where everyone is committed to safety first and then also expansion. And then I have a tone in my system, which is that I know absolutely beyond a shadow of a doubt that anybody can create anything they want.
Kate Northrup:And no one could convince me otherwise about themselves. And so being in space with someone who knows that about you is powerful. So that's it's like the content and then also that. And then you offer monthly nervous system healing and practice calls, and then I do monthly group coaching as well. And then and so, that happens do for people who want to step into the work and get those first steps going to take their financial healing to the next level.
Kate Northrup:So if you are a financial avoider, if you are just really wanting to uplevel, you know, our ideal, student is someone who wants the degree to which they feel powerful on the inside with money to match the degree to which they appear powerful with money on the outside so that the inner begins to match the outer. And so yeah. So I would love to meet any of your people, and I'm sure you'll have your link in the show notes.
Sarah Tangredi:Yeah. I'll have a link in the show notes. I wanted to add this, which is I haven't missed one of your 3 day calls yet. And the way that I see this, whether it's that you get monthly calls once you're in the program or you just listen to the 3 day call that Kate's gonna do, which is free. Just like this podcast is free.
Sarah Tangredi:Like, you can just do this portion. But I'm saying, like, if you if you have the ability to do the 3 day, the reason why I do it over and over again, it reminds me of the reason why someone might go to church every Sunday. You're not hearing a new story. Like, every Sunday they don't start reading a new book. Like, you're sharing the same story, but you're, like, gonna hear it from a slightly different angle.
Sarah Tangredi:It's a slightly different you're a slightly different person. It's like the idea of stepping into a river and it's never quite the same, but it's this layering for me of repetition of putting myself in a place where a new possibility is being shown. And so I always log on, plus I think you're an awesome presenter. I'm like, woah. The way like, sometimes I think it's very hard to describe nervous system stuff and the way that you describe things sometimes, I'm like,
Kate Northrup:wow.
Sarah Tangredi:That was incredible and so succinct. That's wow. So I just think you're really easy to learn from. And I've loved like, I almost came to tears when you talked about the way that you hold a tone of what you believe is possible. You've done that for me.
Sarah Tangredi:And so, of course, you're looking at me as we're doing this and you were talking about everybody. I'm like, she does. It's true. And, so you the the link will be here if you sign up for it. And if you end up signing up through my link, I'm offering people 2.
Sarah Tangredi:I was like, was I gonna say 1 or 2? I'm saying 2. Wait. I can yep. 2.
Sarah Tangredi:I'm offering 2, private. So
Kate Northrup:That's amazing.
Sarah Tangredi:Signing up for relaxed money after the free 3 through my link, I will add 2 private. So if you think about having the monthly support from Kate and for me, and then at some point along the line, if you're feeling like something is a little unsure and you'd like some extra support, then we could go in for 1 on 1.
Kate Northrup:So great. So great. Love that. Thanks, Sarah.
Sarah Tangredi:Thank you. Thanks for coming on, and thank you all for listening. I'll end with a may I. When I notice myself going into an either or, an all or nothing, unless I can't, may I just recognize my state? May I remember that there is most likely a myriad of ways?
Sarah Tangredi:And when they're not directly available, may I be open to the next right step, the smallest doable piece? And may that be enough. May I surround myself with people who inspire me, who show me what is possible through lived experience. May I remember that I am nature and that every time I come into resonance with nature, I get to feel more at home, more of a sense of self and plenty. Thank you.
Kate Northrup:Mhmm.