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There are those in the spotlight, and then there is Everybody Else.
Hosted by Wes Luttrell (Indiana-based artist growth coach and label founder), Everybody Else is a podcast dedicated to the invisible people who make music happen. Featuring solo commentary and insightful interviews with record label execs, tour managers, music tech founders, producers, venue managers, and a slew of others, this show's mission is to pull back the curtain on the lives and ways of thinking of those who make up the modern music ecosystem. New episodes streaming every Tuesday.
Speaker 1 (00:00)
This is the Everybody Else Podcast.
Speaker 2 (00:03)
Who are the invisible people of music today? And what do they do to make music happen? Because behind every great artist, song, venue, festival, and music service, there's a tribe of people who will dedicate their lives to work that if done right, will never appear to have happened. There are those in the spotlight, and then, there's everybody else.
to right now? What have you been working on? ⁓
Speaker 1 (00:35)
Nothing personally. I've just been doing really just design services for clients.
Speaker 2 (00:43)
So it's all like an album, an LP that you just worked on came out or something?
Speaker 1 (00:51)
yeah, one for Juliana Hatfield. Yeah, I've done a number of re-releases for her. kind of the deal with most of the re-releases or the original releases, they don't have the artwork anymore. They don't have the files or the separations or any of that stuff. So usually I just have to find a really nice copy of the LP, scan it, clean it up.
Speaker 2 (00:53)
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:17)
you know, change the copyright info and stuff like that. But some of those albums only came out on CD. OK. And so blowing up something that's five inches to 12 inches, it's it's going to look like shit. So sometimes you just kind of have to like do your best. But if the original printing was bad, then it's usually best to just start over.
think of something else to do and that's what I had to do with her her new record that's that's coming out or it's her new reissue coming out.
Speaker 2 (01:56)
In that case, she, are you throwing out ideas or she's coming to you like with like, are you basing it off the initial artwork?
Speaker 1 (02:03)
Mm-hmm. Yeah, generally. Yeah, almost like a remix. Yeah. Or whatever.
Speaker 2 (02:09)
Yeah, interesting, cool. Because I was thinking in preparation for this, it was like, man, there's so much to talk about, but it's hard to not bring up what you just announced on Instagram. After nine years, you've decided to close the doors of melodic virtue. What was the deciding factor?
Speaker 1 (02:31)
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (02:38)
Because I think that as creatives, ⁓ I just, can't imagine like the blood, sweat and tears that you've built this thing. So then coming to this point, you've decided to close the doors. Can you like tell me about what led up to that moment and then deciding that for the best of the future?
Speaker 1 (02:57)
Well, like with with most things, it's not just one thing that that ultimately led me to that that decision. Yeah, it was it was a number of factors. And it's. Essentially, ⁓ everything was going great up until the pandemic. And then, like with most businesses around that time, there was a lot of uncertainty. ⁓ You know, there was a lot of money being pumped into the economy. So sales were like.
rate during that period of time. Then when that money that they were shelling out disappeared, sales plummeted, but my costs skyrocketed because ⁓ like I have the books were being manufactured in the Czech Republic, but then I switched over to have them manufactured in Lithuania. So there was like sea freight issues and then ⁓
Speaker 2 (03:37)
Mmm.
Speaker 1 (03:54)
shipping containers or at least like space in the shipping container on the boat to get it to the states. There was a lot of competition there, again, because people were buying so many things. Most things are manufactured overseas. So I was paying like $10,000 just for shipping. And it's slow. It takes like a month.
Speaker 2 (04:22)
certain.
Speaker 1 (04:23)
It takes like a month and a half to get to me. ⁓ But that was sort of the beginning at the end. And I kept trying to re-strategize and come up with different revenue streams or just mixing or messing with the formula a little bit that I originally came up with on how to run the business.
I eventually just ran out of options.
Speaker 2 (04:55)
And when back nine years ago, how did Melodic Virtue start? What was the reason for starting? How did it come about? What was the first iteration? Was it based around books or was it based around other stuff?
Speaker 1 (05:10)
No, so Melodic Virtue has been my name for my different businesses for quite a while now. Melodic Virtue is actually, I think, 21 years old. ⁓ It originally started as an MP3 only record label. ⁓ And I developed this software where people could go to the website, like pay like
Speaker 2 (05:21)
Wow.
Speaker 1 (05:37)
$2 or whatever it was it was a pretty small amount of money and people to download these mp3s and That really wasn't being done at this is
Speaker 2 (05:47)
This Bandcamp, this is before iTunes, or like around the same time, or...
Speaker 1 (05:51)
Now this was like maybe 2000, 2001? Okay.
Speaker 2 (05:56)
Wow, and this was in Evansville.
Speaker 1 (05:58)
Yeah, actually, no, I think it was like 2003. Okay. Really bad at spans of time. That's okay. But a minute. But it was the bands I was releasing. mean, they were unknowns. And so it really kind of never really went anywhere. But they're local. Mm hmm. Yeah, just local. Okay. And then ⁓
Speaker 2 (06:05)
Yeah, me too. I'm not really.
Speaker 1 (06:28)
The business I had at the time, ⁓ was called Semi Sands. ⁓ It was with an old business partner ⁓ offering design services. We called ourselves a design studio. And that was shutting down. And so I ended up using the name Melodic Virtue to handle design services for clients, like for the band Ween and stuff like that.
And did that for, I don't know, I think like 12 years. Okay. Something like that. And then got a freelance project in and it was to do a book for the Pixies. And it ended up winning an award. I flew out to LA to accept the award for it and everything. And right around that time, I had two other big design jobs go bad.
and i was i was pretty burn out anyway
Speaker 2 (07:29)
those like music related or are those like commercial or they were? Oh.
Speaker 1 (07:33)
Both. okay. Yeah, yeah, one each. essentially it was clients not taking my advice, their websites went down, and then, you know, they're calling me while I'm on vacation to fix it. And it's like, I always take my laptop with me on vacation, but this is like the one time I didn't. they were pissed off. And I was like, dude, you should have listened. And they didn't.
So anyways, I was just like, well, fuck all this. I'm tired of offering design services. ⁓ I just won an award for this book. I'm just going to keep doing more of that. And so I did until that got bad and went back to offering design services again.
Speaker 2 (08:18)
Is the pixies reaching out to you? Or how did that opportunity come about? Like somebody reaching out to you to say, do you want to do this book? Or was it you kind of fostering that idea? How'd that like start?
Speaker 1 (08:32)
No, so with the books that I produced for Melodic Virtue, that was all me. That was me reaching out. ⁓ For the Pixies, that was... ⁓ There's a record label called American Laundromat. It's actually the one that's doing those Juliana Hatfield reissues. ⁓ One of the guys that was associated with the label at the time was Friends of the Pixies.
this was something he always wanted to do. so he reached out and then got to fly out to New York for these three shows that they were doing and meet the band and sign copies and do all that good stuff.
Speaker 2 (09:16)
That's interesting. It's interesting that that your skill set leading up to that point in a way was honing in this ability to do design at like, cause like I looked through a couple of the books that you've made through melodic virtue and I heard you say in a different podcast that people sometimes are like, what the hell is this? I thought I was getting a biography, but your, your design work, you can tell it's a, it's simple, but it's narrative and it's, it's got this,
It's got this taste to it maybe. And it's interesting that at that point, here comes this opportunity that you've been working not necessarily towards, but your skillset is really homed into this. But one thing that I think is different is how have you created your network or the people... You seem to be really good at making connections for somebody based in Evansville. It's like an abnormal...
Maybe not to you, because you're you. You're in it. to me, that's something I've wondered a lot about, is how do you know all these people?
Speaker 1 (10:24)
I'm not a very social guy, but I-
Speaker 2 (10:28)
So it's almost even more like how the fuck
Speaker 1 (10:31)
But I'm also pretty unafraid to just put myself out there. And I have noticed that, ⁓ at least in the music industry, and I'm sure it's ⁓ the same deal for similar industries as well, if you have integrity, you tend to stand out.
Speaker 2 (10:46)
Yeah.
Hmm,
hmm, yes, hmm.
Speaker 1 (10:54)
Like no one ever does what they say they're gonna do and no one ever pays the amount they say they're going to pay and and so forth and and so I attribute it to that Because there's plenty of people doing really good work. You know, I would like to believe it's like no It's cuz my design works so good or whatever. But but really it's because I think I'm not fucking people over
Speaker 2 (11:19)
Yeah, it's interesting that that probably gives a sense of ⁓ confidence that well, if I'm reaching out to you and I say we're going to do this and I do it and the person's like, this is kind of nice. That in itself, I could see how that is like a really, it almost creates, it's just a trust. It's like, I trust you with my work. If I reached out to our album cover and I need it in six weeks and you pull it off, the next time I need an album cover, that was nice working with you. Like this was a nice thing. It's interesting that that is the
Secret because it's not even a fucking secret
Speaker 1 (11:53)
Yeah, just be nice. Yeah. Be a good person.
Speaker 2 (11:56)
and follow through. so with you and your story, did you grow up in Evansville? Okay. What was like the first, where did it begin with your love of music or your love of, or like how did the music part come to the design part?
Speaker 1 (12:04)
I did. ⁓
Well, it's kind of funny. I didn't grow up in a musical household or anything. Like my parents had like maybe five LPs. Interesting. Yeah. you're... one was Iron Butterfly. I that. I think there was probably an Elvis one in there too. Okay. I actually got to see Elvis in utero.
Speaker 2 (12:27)
or what they were. ⁓
Interesting.
Oh nice!
That's amazing. You get to feel Elvis. Yeah, yeah, yeah. That's awesome.
Speaker 1 (12:46)
Or at least hear him.
Muffled version. Yeah, so it really wasn't until, like I liked music, I, you know, just being a little kid, being stuck in the Midwest, not having like the cool older brother or whatever. It really wasn't until high school when I started discovering things. And being a visual guy, I was always like really obsessed with the artwork.
And so listening to those records and, you know, just like studying the album covers, like imagining how they did it without the tools that we have now. yeah, ⁓ so like my really sort of my visual language started to develop then. Like, because I grew up appreciating like...
like old match books, like the little clip art and crap that would be on those, and like the logos on train cars and stuff. But it really wasn't until ⁓ it was design work paired with music is when I really started to love both.
Speaker 2 (14:00)
That's interesting. When you were a little kid looking at these, like, let's say, the box cars or just even like ads that had cool logos, did you go make your own or did you experiment with it? Were you drawing a lot? Were you creating at a young age?
Speaker 1 (14:16)
Yeah, I was I was drawing as early as preschool at least that I know of ⁓ I don't remember it. Yeah Yeah, but my my mom said that the first picture ever drew was of my dog that we had the time an old English sheepdog
Speaker 2 (14:20)
Yeah.
Okay, interesting. Because I think that it's interesting again, like just the through line of like you being a young artist, making this stuff and then finding something like music to where it just connects. And then in this town, were you a pretty shy kid?
Speaker 1 (14:52)
Yeah, yeah, I'm more outgoing now, but that's not saying a lot.
Speaker 2 (14:57)
Yeah, because I wondered like in your experience, what was music like in this city growing up? Was there any, was there a scene of any sorts? mean, once you start like an MP3 record label, there has to be people around here or...
Speaker 1 (15:11)
Yeah, there was, I think the earliest show I went to, the building's not even there anymore, it's an empty lot, but it was right behind the Sterling Brewery. And it was just called the Music Hall. Pretty generic name or whatever, but it was like shortly after Nirvana broke or whatever. so, I mean,
The shows then were crazy. mean, you know, there was usually like 200 people there. Wow. You know, there was like this really huge interest in underground music and it was all, you know, attributed to Irvana getting big and...
Speaker 2 (15:57)
That's interesting.
Speaker 1 (15:58)
So it's been kind of a bummer to see what has happened with music in Evansville like since. Because that was my first experience, you know? And I've definitely seen like waves of it here and there.
Speaker 2 (16:11)
It's it's I can't even imagine I mean, mean there's we've had small shows for you know 120 people or 150 people have been there but to think about regular shows where hundreds of people are coming out and I guess that would classify as a scene like an actual scene Yeah, it's really It's something foreign to me living. I've only lived in Evansville. I guess from the area, but only lived here for six years seven years, so I've not experienced something like this. I experienced like
The base level shows that we are a part of in some sense. There's a little bit of a metal scene. And then you just catapult right back up to Victory Theater, ONAP, Ford Center. There's not that middle ground of any cultivating band scenes. What was going on back then that was different than today besides Nirvana? Was there infrastructure of venues? Was there besides the music hall? Was there other spots?
Speaker 1 (17:09)
There was a few off and on. ⁓ There was one called La Cappuccinos. ⁓
I haven't thought about this shit in years. ⁓ Funkies 2 was one. ⁓ It was kind of funny because it had like, it was divided up. It had like two big rooms. One was like a dance club and then one was like a like an all ages venue or whatever. Okay.
Speaker 2 (17:22)
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (17:45)
I remember there was like some rave going on. So one of my me and my friends went out there and did jumping jacks and we cleared the floor.
Speaker 2 (17:54)
That's awesome. That's awesome. Does any sort of modern event that you go to feel like a scene? Like I see at chug shows sometimes.
Speaker 1 (18:07)
Yeah, it just seems like there's pockets now. There's not like this, you know, not everybody's like getting together and like organizing like bigger events. It's just sort of like, you know, there's like some punk rock over here, some hardcore over there. it's, I don't know, it's a bit of a bummer.
Speaker 2 (18:30)
Yeah, it's pretty fragmented. ⁓ is a bummer. But you know, I don't really know. It is what it is. We just all keep doing our thing. I mean, who knows? Who knows? It feels like something might bubble up. ⁓ sometimes I feel like we're beating a dead horse talking about it. Because when ask people about it, it's always the same kind of.
Speaker 1 (18:51)
Well, something I've been saying for a really long time, especially like as soon as I-69 became, you know, like part of the conversation. OK. ⁓ Whenever a band is planning their tour route, Evansville is always out of the way. You know, you have to take like 41 or, you know, another like really shitty highway and come down and then go back to the, you know, the ⁓ interstate.
But with I-69 in place, if there is a mid-size venue here, bands will come through, especially if they're not going out any further west or further east, depending on which way they're coming from. ⁓ Being in the middle of so many big cities, like Indy, Chicago, St. Louis, Nashville, Louisville, Evansville's a...
a logical stop yes you know between one of the two if there is a direct route
Speaker 2 (19:59)
That makes so much sense, like, just logistically, you know? And if you're at a certain size, you're hitting those other big-ass spots already, or you're already potentially coming through. But then now, if that was gonna happen, well, you just said, you know, if we had the mid-size venue. Because that's the part that's, you know, that's the part that's missing. then, you know, but...
But there's still hope. still, you know, like there's always, I think of people like you who are connected to an outside scene, or you know, to people outside of here doing music. There's us, like we're slowly getting connected to people outside of here. There is these big infrastructures like the Fort Center and the Victory Theater. There is small bars. Perhaps there will form some sort of connective tissue between all of that that will create.
Because I think a healthy scene is that, right? It's like all the way from house shows to arena creates this healthy ecosystem of, it's like Nashville has that in some ways. They have this artist development, just kind of like ecosystem through all the different sizes of venues. So maybe we're just missing some of the key factors in there.
Speaker 1 (21:12)
I mean, really the mid-size venues, the missing link, Bringing bigger acts to town, having locals open up for some of the bigger touring acts, if they're not bringing an opener along. A scene will start to form.
Speaker 2 (21:32)
Yes.
We'll see. We'll see who comes around with it. Who knows? So I was curious about mentioning Nirvana. The bands that you've documented, the bands that you've archived, that you've really taken in, what role did they play in setting the foundation, if any, for bands like Nirvana to become mainstream, to become so fucking big that still there are...
they're lasting, was there a relationship between that?
Speaker 1 (22:11)
Well I mean like ⁓ Nirvana were big fans of the butthole surfers. ⁓ I don't really know ⁓
Speaker 2 (22:18)
Mm.
Speaker 1 (22:25)
Yeah, I don't even know if I can answer this question. I think it was just like a right place, right time thing for Nirvana.
Speaker 2 (22:34)
Do you remember, do you remember like when Nirvana, my brother-in-law was in high school in 94, 96, something like that. But he talks about like when Nirvana blew up, he's like everybody started wearing plaid shirts and like 80s hair bands were the cool thing until Nirvana, if you liked mainstream music. Bon Jovi was huge for him. And then Nirvana becomes huge and then now he likes Bernie. But he's like 80s hair band shit was out and all of sudden plaid shirts were in and Nirvana was in.
Do you remember that time?
Speaker 1 (23:04)
absolutely. Yeah, it just... I've never seen anything like it since. It just changed the musical landscape. mean, hell, it changed the landscape of Seattle as a town.
Speaker 2 (23:18)
Hmm
Yeah, it's interesting almost like it's almost like beetle like beetle mania a little bit how it that was like kind of the first explosion of some Musical phenomenon that like impacted the world. Perhaps this one was like that in America. Yeah, I guess the world too, but
Speaker 1 (23:37)
Right. And I mean, for me, with the books I make, the bands are always like highly influential, but they're weird ones. know, they're, you know, sometimes they'll have ⁓ like that one hit that like makes it to the radio or whatever. But for the most part, you know, these bands aren't wealthy, you know, but they've been doing it for.
30, 40, 50 years.
Speaker 2 (24:09)
It's weird because one thing I was thinking about in preparation of talking to you was how listening to a podcast that you're on, like I said, and then looking through some of the books, I'm not that familiar with a lot of the work of those bands. But as I was taking it in and maybe just start thinking about it, it kind of redefines my idea of success because today I would measure success by stream count or record sales, which
I wouldn't really even say record sales. Follower count, are they a big band? They have a lot of followers, they have a of streams. The shows that they play, the revenue that they generate, these would be indicators of success. But then I thought about it, I'm like, if some of these bands were coming at the same time as some massive mainstream bands back in the day, but no one gives a fuck about those massive hit makers back in the day as much as perhaps a cult underground following would care about some of these bands that you've documented today, what does success mean?
Cause like, what if they're the ones who are remembered in the fucking, in no way, I mean, I think people still care about like, you know, Kiss or Billy Joel at some level, like these like humongous people. But imagine like, as time goes on, it almost just redefines like, what was success, even me?
Speaker 1 (25:28)
think it's just in the eye of the beholder, man. don't... You know, some people look at it as just like, you know, how many zeros are at the end of, you know, the amount of money you have in your bank account or whatever. Or it's like, like what have you achieved? You know, like...
Speaker 2 (25:31)
Yeah, it's, yeah.
Speaker 1 (25:50)
Let's try to think of a good example.
Speaker 2 (25:52)
Like getting your books in like these big ass museums or archives.
Speaker 1 (25:56)
Yeah, it's definitely not something I set out to do.
Speaker 2 (25:58)
Yeah,
exactly. Yeah, yeah, but I would say those and like connected to a name or a book Identify success or like that must be some mark of achievement, you know
Speaker 1 (26:08)
yeah, yeah that was huge.
Speaker 2 (26:10)
Yeah. How did that happen? How did...
Speaker 1 (26:14)
The Smithsonian hit me up. They were they were interested in the butthole surfers Yeah
Speaker 2 (26:19)
Did you get an email?
That's awesome. Yeah, they're imagining you're like whoa
Speaker 1 (26:26)
Well, like, it does make sense if you stop and think about it.
Sorry, I was getting a call. Like, a lot of the people that are in positions of power in these institutions these days are people around my age. And so they're bringing their interests along with them. I mean, butthole surfers were huge, know, like especially like within the underground community. And just...
so many people love that band and apparently the Smithsonian did as well. And so they reached out and so I went ahead and gave them all the books that I'd made up to that point. And then it just got me to thinking like, I wonder if anybody else is interested. So that's when I hit up ⁓ the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame and they were interested. I hit up the Museum of Modern Art, which they only have my...
My books on the residents, they don't have the rest.
Speaker 2 (27:34)
That's crazy. I because you know, it makes you think too, when you, almost like to your point about networking or growing your network, when you set out to do good work that you're like genuinely interested in, like authentically pouring yourself into, and it feels selfless. I mean, it really does. Like when I look at your work, I don't know why, but it feels like this person is, like this is this person. Like they put themself into this.
That's art. That's the highest form of artwork. To have that in a museum does also make sense. This is not only documenting, but look at this. This guy did so much work for us as a museum. We were going to have to curate this thing. You know what I mean? It's like you've gathered all the... Back when you were making a book, you're preparing, let's say, the residence book. How are you collecting all this stuff?
Speaker 1 (28:31)
So it usually involves ⁓ a trip out to see the band and then go through their collection. I did not do that with ⁓ Butthole Surfers and that was, it was mostly just for economic reasons. publishing company was still pretty young, not a ton of funds, but ⁓ with the residents, ⁓ I've gone out there twice. ⁓
So like a total of 20 days just digging through all their archives. And some bands are really big on their legacy. Like they always like save some copies or like press clippings, you know, that sort of thing. Some bands like Ministry, that guy literally just has a briefcase with just some like random shit in it. And that's all he owns of his own work.
Speaker 2 (29:28)
That's his collection, isn't
Speaker 1 (29:31)
But then like the the residents, I mean they used to have like a storage facility and they've you know, like pared it down since then but it's still a lot.
Speaker 2 (29:41)
That's in in are the bands typically receptive of your interest in making a book about them? They work like do they work with you in that? Like come look at my shit. Come on in.
Speaker 1 (29:48)
for the most part.
No, no, usually they just hand me the keys and just turn me loose. Wow.
Speaker 2 (30:00)
Wow. So I'm imagining, let's say a 10 day trip to go work on the residence book. You're digging. You are, you're scanning, you're taking photos, you're documenting all this stuff. Are you taking, are you like processing, are you just like doing it or are you processing like, this would be, yeah. Does the narrative start to form at that point?
Speaker 1 (30:22)
It does. ⁓ And I have to be really mindful, I want to scan everything. Yeah. But I mean, that would take months. And I just don't have it. And so I have to be pretty picky. Is this visually interesting? Is it something I'm not going to have access to after I leave here? Like those types of questions.
do bring along an assistant. ⁓ With the first resident's book, I brought my son. And then with the second one, and then also the Cardiacs book, ⁓ my last book, I brought Rob Crowe from Penback.
Speaker 2 (31:06)
Yeah, okay. saw, I saw, I think he had a quote, quote or two in that book. Yeah, throughout the book. Yeah. And you shouted him out in intro. It's like a helper. Yeah. Yeah. Well that makes sense. Yeah. Do a double, I mean, you know, having someone there to help you. So, so are you in that case sifting and then letting them scan or everybody, it's just everybody's.
Speaker 1 (31:28)
Yeah, like in the case with Rob, I mean, he was sitting on the floor and I was just making a pile of shit around him. And then, you know, whenever he was done, like he was making his own pile and I'd grab it and put it back and then go through some more stuff and just kept doing that for 10 days.
Speaker 2 (31:48)
So then you come back with all this stuff and you begin sorting or do you still you're still collecting at this?
Speaker 1 (31:57)
It depends, so... ⁓
Usually on the flight back, I'm already like beginning to sort things. I'm cataloging everything by year and then by month. And then depending on if it's like a tour or something by day. And then ⁓ sorting all of that into chapters and then just figuring out where the holes are. So I might reach out to like a super fan or I might be...
scraping discogs and buying a record that's like freaking 200 bucks or something. Like if I couldn't find it in their archive and yeah.
Speaker 2 (32:38)
And then, tell me what your experience is. I'm imagining, so a super fan of a underground band from 30, 40 years ago, what is the current, like those super fans, what are they like? Like they're hanging out on the internet? Where are you finding these people?
Speaker 1 (33:00)
⁓ They usually tend to make themselves known, so they're easy to find. ⁓ But I think there's a certain level of maybe mental instability that comes with being a super fan at some level. So yeah, they can be a bit much.
Speaker 2 (33:19)
Yeah, yeah.
I just I was curious like I was thinking about that before this like talking to super fans of like the butthole surfers who I Just like I'm just saying thinking they just eat sleep and breathe this stuff for decades, know and You come out with a book on it. They're probably gobbled up. They're probably pretty I have some thoughts and opinions on it too, but I bet they're like, oh shit. Look at all this stuff stuff. haven't seen maybe or
Speaker 1 (33:50)
yeah, definitely. And then ⁓ I always like to include ⁓ testimonials or whatever, stories from notable fans in there as well. some fans haven't made those connections. They're like, I didn't realize this guy was also a fan of the Butthole Surfers or the Residents or whatever. But they're like, yeah, now I can kind of see it. Like, it kind of makes sense.
Speaker 2 (34:18)
Yeah,
it's almost like ⁓ this relationship between, like you mentioned that they're influential. It's interesting how, ⁓ I was thinking about this, like the underground and the mainstream, like the relationship between them, there is a relationship. There is a relationship between underground culture and mainstream culture. And I was thinking about how like the, maybe like the payoff or the reward for like mainstream is like fame and money and all this shit.
But then the payoff for an underground culture is like almost like realness or camaraderie or like, do you see these things? Do you know what I'm saying? Like, is there like a...
Speaker 1 (34:58)
Yeah, the underground definitely informs what's eventually going to be popular at some point. You know, it's sort of like mainstream culture. It takes them like, you know, five or 10 years to kind of catch up. ⁓
Speaker 2 (35:05)
Yeah.
Yes, yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:18)
I forgot what the other part of that question was or statement was.
Speaker 2 (35:20)
Well
like the the like the it's almost like the reward of or like the payoff or like the draw to the underground It doesn't seem to be Like I'm here to get famous. I'm here to
Speaker 1 (35:35)
I mean, some people are. I think it's just different for everybody. Some people get stuck at that level and then they're bummed. But then other ones are just like, you know, look at all the bands that are big now that, you know, and they were a fan of mine. You know, it's like I was kind of like the launching pad for their career. don't know. I can see someone like finding that rewarding.
Speaker 2 (36:01)
Yes, yeah. think that...
Speaker 1 (36:06)
Well, like a good example, Doug from Built to Spill ⁓ was telling me that he's like a big Butthole Surfers fan. And it was so crazy that the Butthole Surfers opened up for Built to Spill. He's like, that should have been the other way around. But then Built to Spill opened up for Modest Mouse and Isaac's a big fan of Built to Spill. And so it's like, it all just
kind of like came full circle or whatever.
Speaker 2 (36:39)
That's interesting. It's almost like, I've thought about this a lot. I don't know how true it is, but it's almost like, you know, if you're a band, I remember ⁓ early on with one of the early bands I ever worked with, this guy, they played a big music festival and I was talking about him and this guy's like, hopefully they stay together. And I'm like, what do you mean? They're definitely gonna stay together. Like, why would they break up? I hadn't been through a breakup. I hadn't been through a band breaking up yet. And then after that, I thought, wow, if a band stays together for a long time,
That's really impressive. But to stay together long enough to be able to like re, almost like have these iterations of yourself to come back and then be recognized by the next generation of musicians who are like, you should come open with us. To them, that's probably such a treat to have your inspirations come open for you now. like, you know what I mean? Like it's such a beautiful, like whatever, loop.
Speaker 1 (37:32)
Yeah, mean, if you can weather your first taste of success as a band and not break up, you might actually have something there. You might actually be able to take it as far as you want to. But it just seems like anytime someone gets that really good record deal or whatever, someone's ego gets in the way and then it just all falls apart.
Speaker 2 (37:59)
I did, I wonder too, as I was reading an article on Elliot Roberts, who was Neil Young and Joni Mitchell's manager, he was telling his artists, he would tell his artists like, we want mainstream success, like two or three records in. We want this sort of like, this like backlog of stability with a fan base and with previous work out that if something does take off, that you're not.
that it doesn't just implode the whole thing. That if it does go up and you come back down, you've already got some like base level of success. And I think that that is actually just working in modern music. That is something that I think like a lot of new acts don't know that there's like a career to be had. It's like I want, like they're pursuing like the moment or the virality or like like I'm ready for it to happen today, even though
success will probably kill them at a high level, you know? There's no development period like there used to be, you know? Maybe there is like right now kind of coming back a little bit, but...
Speaker 1 (39:06)
Having
been involved in the industry as long as I have, can tell who's doing it for the wrong reasons. Like pretty easily. You know, like most people got into this, or I won't even say most, half, some, whatever, got into it because they feel this compulsion to create. You know, they really love making stuff.
Yes. And then some are just like, I just want to look really cool with a guitar and I want to fuck all these chicks and make a bunch of money and do a bunch of drugs or whatever. It's just like, dude, you suck. should.
Speaker 2 (39:51)
Yes.
Speaker 1 (39:53)
Go do literally anything else.
Speaker 2 (40:01)
This episode of the podcast is brought to you by Wally Opus. Wally Opus is an independent record label and an artist management company based in Evansville, Indiana, with artists located in Kentucky, New York, LA, and Indiana. On July 18th, the Chugs, they're a, if you don't know, you should know, they're a punk band from Southern Indiana that makes music exclusively about Ham's beer. It's their only passion.
frankly, besides the music that they then write about the beer in. their new six pack is their third six pack called Eternal Brutopia. It's an album that drops on all platforms on July 18th, followed by their album release show the following day here in Evansville at our Academy in downtown Evansville. That happens on July 19th. So check out the chugs band dot com to learn all the details and see their merch and you can preorder the vinyl.
on that website. Also, we've got Leo Lovechild from Brooklyn. He's the Brooklyn cowboy without a horse, but he's got a guitar and he's dropping his second full length album titled Skyscraper Country. It's ⁓ based on a semi-fictional character named F.J. Stine who peddles his way through New York City venues and relationships on his road to seeking stardom.
His record drops on Friday, August 1st on all platforms. And the day before that on July 31st, you can catch his album release show in Brooklyn at Desert Five. Check out all the details on Leo's Instagram. Leo love child music and find out about all of our bands, all of the cool stuff about Wally Opus at WallyOpus.com. back to the show.
Do you notice that the bands that have stood the test of time, even the ones that you've documented or just ones that you know, ⁓ what did they do differently? I guess they probably came at it from a pure intention. But what did they do differently than all the other plethora of bands who have just fallen into oblivion after decades?
Speaker 1 (42:29)
Well, like, ⁓ one of the things with the residents is they all stayed anonymous. Like.
Speaker 2 (42:37)
Do they have regular lives then, outside of the band?
Speaker 1 (42:40)
Yeah. Yeah, like, you know, families and they're pretty normal people considering the art they made was really far out there. ⁓ But it's just sort of like, well, they sort of like exercise their demons through their art and then just go live these like normal, nice lives. ⁓
God damn, I forgot the-
Speaker 2 (43:08)
What did they do differently? But I think hell being anonymous is something, you know
Speaker 1 (43:14)
Yeah, like it couldn't get to anyone's head. There was never, you know, you know, lead singer or whatever that everyone's like fawning over, you know, it's no one knows who they are. And so it kept it pure. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (43:30)
That's it's so interesting, like staying, this might be like a little bit different, but I've heard that I've heard you talk about like being, I don't know what we're like intense in your work, maybe would be like a way to say it, but you.
Speaker 1 (43:47)
Very
focused. ⁓ Maybe too much.
Speaker 2 (43:51)
Where does that come from? Have you always been this way?
Speaker 1 (43:54)
Yeah, yeah, anything that I get excited about, I dedicate like 100 % of my attention to it. And so it really was pretty easy for me to just like hyper focus on one band a year.
Speaker 2 (44:10)
What happens, like, you know, kind of tying back to, I'm gonna go to, like, you're coming back, you've now sorted this book, okay, now I'm gonna make the damn book, and maybe you've given yourself a deadline already. What happens when you go into, like, finishing mode, and there's like, does pressure help? Does high stakes, does this stuff, do you feed off that?
Speaker 1 (44:34)
yeah, yeah, it's all high stakes. I mean, the books are incredibly expensive to produce. And so knowing that I'm going to have to sell these things in order to stay in business is a massive motivator. And then also usually going through the band's archives, sorting all that stuff, know, like filling in all the missing holes.
It just takes so much time. So when it comes down to actually producing the book, that's usually where I end up shortchanging myself and not giving myself a lot of time to do it. And so like with the last book I did on cardiacs, I knocked that out in four weeks. And so I got 300 page book. then I think like the residents book before that volume two, I had COVID.
And it was like pretty severe. And I would just like fall asleep with my laptop on me. And then the second I woke up, I would just start designing again. And I did that for like three or four weeks.
Speaker 2 (45:47)
What state do you go into? I have one of my best friends who's a really intense painter, and I almost see in him that once he enters the final stretch of a project or a work or a deadline time frame, his relationship with time, his relationship with reality, he enters almost like a portal where he is just connected to the work.
and then he arises after, he like comes back after it's been turned in or it's out of his hands. Do you enter like some sort of, it's almost like a, I'm just thinking it's almost like this like relationship with reality where you're like in it. You're like time outside, to-dos, people asking you to do, I don't know, it's just like kinda.
Speaker 1 (46:36)
Well, like a little bit of an analogy is for me, it's almost like studying for a test, but it's a huge test and you have all year to study. Yeah. And so when it comes down time or when it comes time to like sit down and make this book, all of this information is just pouring out of my head. And if I stop and do something else to get back on track, I mean,
It takes like about a week or something. It's in my best interest to just not quit.
Speaker 2 (47:13)
Yeah, to go through with it. You were connected to whatever this all of that prep work that you've been documenting all this shit you've been archiving is now coming out and in how So you're making this book. How the hell do you know? I guess you've documented it by year by day potentially by shows or by you know tour dates how though like do you know that this is like
Good's a weird word, but how do you know that this is gonna come out in a way that makes sense or lands? you editing? Are you going back and editing yourself? How do you know that this is?
Speaker 1 (47:53)
I do go back and edit. know, there's some spreads that either the artwork that I have from the band isn't very good or maybe what I was doing with it just isn't clicking or the end page count isn't divisible by four, because that's also a consideration. I don't want to have just blank pages in there. ⁓ So sometimes ⁓ like one of the weaker spreads will get cut.
because of that, but a big part is just trusting myself. Like I've just, I've done this enough times that especially like, you know, over the almost last decade, I just know it's gonna be consistent.
Speaker 2 (48:39)
and how important are deadlines to making that happen.
Speaker 1 (48:43)
I start about a year in advance. I'm like, when do I want this book to come out? And then I know how long Seafright is going to take. I know how long it's going to take to manufacture the book. I know how long it's going to take me to produce the book, to go through the band's archive. And so I just set that release date and then just start working backwards. So I usually have my year planned out.
about a year in advance.
Speaker 2 (49:15)
And you did that for years up till this point. And so life was pretty simple in a weird complex way, right? Like your time was...
Speaker 1 (49:19)
Yeah.
It's
literally all I did, man. I had to quit doing everything else.
Speaker 2 (49:33)
Yeah, but it's it's the discipline though. I just I just don't know that Would you have made the books had you not lived that way in that amount you almost like like I was thinking about it I'm like you if you if you treated each book like it was like I released a record every year. It's like you were you had a prolific nine years just now. Oh Yeah, my It just seems like such a
But I think the lesson that I'm trying to kind of pull from it is that like, I think that so many people want to do creative work at a high level, but they don't understand or they don't really commit to the lifestyle that it takes to produce the outcome that they might see or compare themselves to even. it's like when I, Sam let me borrow all of the books that he has of yours and it's a stack this tall. And as I was looking at it earlier, I was just like, God.
That's a lot. That's a lot of years. That's a lot of time. That's not just he made a book. That's a lot. It just seems like, you know, like, is that even possible without that level of commitment and without that level of dedicating your life to something like this?
Speaker 1 (50:49)
I don't think so. Because I have helped with other books too, like Joyful Noise, they were putting one together on the band Joan of Arc. they're really just, you know, through like no fault of their own, just not having done it before, we're really having a lot of trouble getting it across the finish line. And so hired me and then
Speaker 2 (51:03)
Okay.
Speaker 1 (51:19)
I just went through and I mean the design was already there. It was done by a really good designer. ⁓ But just reformatting it, making the book ⁓ physically smaller. It was 12 inches I believe. ⁓ Just making it ⁓ nine. And then increasing the page count.
I pretty much just started over on it and knocked it out in a couple of weeks.
Speaker 2 (51:52)
And that was the jolt of energy that was like the prod into it that they needed to get that sucker across the finish line. just, you know, I just, it almost like it's a, it's a, it's a thing that like, I don't necessarily think it's a super common thing to be able to commit yourself.
Speaker 1 (51:58)
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (52:16)
in your life to doing work, to doing creative work that produces the level of output that you've been able to accomplish. And I say that working with a lot of artists who, and then having been an artist and having just studying whatever the hell I like, it just, I think I'm just commending you on this effort maybe or something, but I just, I think that it's no small feat.
to be able to have done what you did. And I can recognize, I think, a little bit about the lifestyle that you've spent doing it, you know, up to this point.
Speaker 1 (52:54)
I appreciate that man. And I mean, like I was saying earlier, I'm not super social. I do go out every once in a while. he is. But I genuinely love being creative. Whether I'm making money by doing it or not, mean, obviously I need to make some.
I don't say, don't give a shit about making money. I just feel this compulsion to create and I'm having a lot of fun doing it for the most part. And so I just wanna keep doing it, cause it's fun.
Speaker 2 (53:33)
It's almost like fun in the most meaningful, all-in way. I'm sure it's not always joy-filled, brutal moments, but...
Speaker 1 (53:52)
No, I developed like a lot of health issues ⁓ from just stress, from years and years of stress ⁓ from melodic virtue. And after it shut down, like a few months after, or not, when I made the decision to shut it down, which was several months prior, ⁓ a lot of those health issues disappeared.
Speaker 2 (54:21)
kind of wondered about that as a factor in sort of like, not to use an analogy of a book, but just like closing one chapter and heading into another in terms of like longevity. It's like that's also the double edged sword. It's like that level of commitment gets you this production of these books, but is that a sustainable life? Is that like a sustainable way to live?
Speaker 1 (54:47)
No, and I knew it was gonna end at some point, ⁓ just because I got to this, it was kind of weird. like two of the bands ⁓ that I've always considered just sort of like my top, well being in my top three are Butthole Surfers and The Residents. I got- ⁓
Speaker 2 (55:13)
like
your top favorite bands outside of whatever.
Speaker 1 (55:15)
of
all time. Yeah. And the other one's wean. So like I've got like over 20 years. And so having already done bottle surfers is book number two and then doing a couple of books on the residence. I was just like.
Speaker 2 (55:21)
you've worked with for... Okay.
Speaker 1 (55:38)
what bands am I gonna do now? It's sort of like I already did like the ones that were like the most meaningful to me. And so now it's just like, who's next? And that sort of having that epiphany, I was just like, oh God, yeah, I can't do this for the rest of my life. You know, I'm gonna run out of bands really fast. There's a lot I like and most of which, you know, like I love
Speaker 2 (55:58)
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (56:08)
like so deeply, but I know there's probably only like a hundred other people out there that would give a s*** to that. Yeah, they care as much as I do to buy a book and that's, you know, that's not sustainable.
Speaker 2 (56:15)
shit like
Yeah, so I wonder so then like your Maybe that was part of the drive for those are like some of those early projects to like the butthole servers or residents or not early projects but some of those projects where it was personal there was a personal aspect to it like Because something about the work feels important, you know, like it feels like ⁓ I like for example like with this podcast it's the most it's just
but it seems like the kind of the easier thing to do versus like, will you listen to this band's record? And I'm like, hey, would you want to be on a podcast? And what's it about? It's about behind the scenes of music. It's about the people who have done this work to build the music industry or who operate the music industry behind the scenes. It seems that there's an interest in it that has nothing to do with me. It's like for the world or something. And I wondered if you're...
Like you're person, but it's really personal for me, because like I wanna know all this shit, because it's really beneficial to like, just, you know what I mean? So it's like the personal connection drives the will to go fucking do it. But then there's like, it's not about you though, so then it seems somehow valuable to the world beyond you, you know?
Speaker 1 (57:43)
Yeah, absolutely. And I didn't really, I guess I never allowed myself to have the time to think about the impact these books were making. For me, it was, I have to do another one or the business will close. And so usually, you know, when one's wrapping up, I'm like, shit, it's time to start another one, you know, and start, you know.
Speaker 2 (57:45)
Yeah.
Yeah
Speaker 1 (58:13)
getting those wheels moving and everything. But now that it's over, I've actually had a chance to reflect and it's been kind of nice.
Speaker 2 (58:21)
Yeah,
mean that's so cool. Fuck, there's a book. There's a book about that. Or like your fucking memoir about. ⁓ That's cool. So what's, ⁓ when you look at, when you look ahead, when you look out at the world, what do you see? What would you do? What do you want to do?
Speaker 1 (58:41)
Oh, I've got plans. Because one of the frustrating things is when I was doing the books, was, I mean, I was doing like 70 plus hour weeks. And Jesus, literally, that's all I was doing. I really missed making music. had to stop doing that in 2019. So I really want to start making more music. There was a TV show pilot.
Speaker 2 (58:42)
Okay.
Speaker 1 (59:11)
that Sam Cuban and I wrote. Yeah, remember hearing about that. Yeah, it's like three years old at this point, but I still think it could work and could be really cool. who knows? I mean, we could make it it could be the dumbest fucking thing that's ever been made. Like, I don't know. But I do want to try to at least see it through. Like, at least get that pilot filmed and then just kind of take it from there.
Speaker 2 (59:41)
How did you meet Sam?
Speaker 1 (59:43)
through my friend Rachel Wambach.
Speaker 2 (59:46)
Okay, Scott and Sam I think worked together back in the day. Yeah. Now they're in the chucks together.
Speaker 1 (59:55)
Yeah, I think I needed like some copy editing or something done. And, uh, and she recommended Sam, but also, um,
And I could be getting my timeline mixed up, which happens pretty often. But I also, like, I think the first time I met him in person, I had hired him to wear a Bigfoot costume and do a photo shoot in our new ⁓ t-shirts that we had for Melodic Virtue.
Speaker 2 (1:00:33)
That's amazing. Yeah, that's no that that definitely lines up. There was a period of time when I first started coming around to where Sam there was this there was this Sasquatch outfit that was in his trunk, I think, and he would just he would just like break out at different events or things or it came into handy for content or people's. Yeah, they're promotional stuff ⁓ that seems about.
Speaker 1 (1:00:56)
What happened to that costume? I haven't asked.
Speaker 2 (1:00:59)
I have no idea. Yeah, I haven't seen it since he moved. That was at their old house where I saw it last. So, because he had some videos of him destroying some piano or some shit, like beating a piano to death in a Sasquatch outfit or something.
Speaker 1 (1:01:13)
That sounds right, I haven't seen it.
Speaker 2 (1:01:15)
Yeah, ⁓ Sam is, I didn't even know he was helping you with your stuff at some point in the journey we started talking about it. he now, I think of Sam as this, he's one of the most, not only ⁓ loving people and kind people, that dude is a part of so much stuff and he never bitches about.
being tired even though sometimes I like are you tired you look a little worn down but he is too young in a full-time job in the D and he's at every family event let me just tell you that and he's and he has a wife
Speaker 1 (1:01:46)
Two young kids.
And he has a wife. Apparently
really patient.
Speaker 2 (1:01:58)
It's supportive of his creative endeavors. And yeah, he's just a, he's a, he's an anomaly of a human being ⁓ that I guess I'm just highlighting right now.
Speaker 1 (1:02:09)
He's definitely a kindred spirit. know, like, like I think he and I figured that out pretty quickly, you know, shortly after meeting each other.
Speaker 2 (1:02:21)
Not only just in the work, but just in who you guys are as people.
Speaker 1 (1:02:25)
Yeah,
just the compulsion to just keep making crap regardless of the consequences or, you know, you know, we're not trying to get anything out of it. You know, trying we're not trying to get big or whatever. If it happens, cool. If not, whatever, that's fine.
Speaker 2 (1:02:44)
That's what I feel so excited about the Chugs at this moment because they are, three years into their journey and they, while everybody else spins in circles about how the fuck we're gonna get famous, or just not famous, just bigger, all this just kind of like stuff, those guys have just been having a good time, meeting up every Thursday, drinking some beer, making some music.
playing shows. I they work their asses off too, but it's so cool to see now they're hitting a point where the world is like, who the fuck is this? And it's leading to like, you know, the end of the week, going to Pennsylvania to play a festival and getting just more press. They were in Cream magazines. I know if you saw it, that Cream magazine put them in their New Music Friday playlist on Friday.
with their new song that's out and like tag the chugs and it's like what is all this you know it's amazing now we just you know
Speaker 1 (1:03:47)
and I've been hyping them too. I don't know if it's been helping at all, but just, you know, when I'm out traveling or whatever, and ⁓ I'll just be like, you know, hanging out with one of the guys that used to work at Sony Music or whatever, and I'm like, like, check out this band that's like, Ham's Beer themed.
Speaker 2 (1:04:05)
that alone is he well i was
Speaker 1 (1:04:07)
Yeah,
that's what people always say at first. They're like, what? And I was like, yeah, it's a joke band that's actually really good. Yeah.
Speaker 2 (1:04:17)
Well that's what ⁓ somebody said, I forget who the person was, but in one of the emails recently from one of the press outlets, the guy's like, I was super surprised to realize, or like to find out you guys don't suck. Like, turning on your music and being like, whoa, what is this? And I thought, man, that's such a beautiful comment that like, I'm sure a lot of people on FaceValue are like, what the fuck is this? And then they play it, like, well what the fuck is this? You know?
I I remember hearing their first record made down here, we recorded it down here and I didn't really, I was just, we were just making, I wasn't even thinking about it, I was just making a record, having fun, drinking a lot of hams. And then I saw the lyrics afterwards and read through the lyrics and I'm like, this is really good. Like, these are really good lyrics and it's cohesive as shit. And then the next record comes out, I'm like,
this is really good too. You guys, there's something here, you know? And then here we are again. And yeah, well, just see how far the joke gets taken.
Speaker 1 (1:05:25)
I'm waiting for the sober record.
Speaker 2 (1:05:27)
Yeah, we'll see. Yeah, we'll see. It might be kind of boring. I don't know.
Speaker 1 (1:05:34)
I hope it is.
Speaker 2 (1:05:36)
That's awesome. Well, I have one more question ⁓ and I don't even know if it's an interesting thing, but if you looked back on your life and your life in music and being based here, ⁓ because I think it's so interesting that you chose to stay out of all the places that I'm sure you could have moved or left or done whatever, ⁓ you look back on your life. What are some like?
If you had to kind of narrate a theme or like a through line of, came here and I got here, what was some of the people you met or the moments that you had, these things that kind of broke these next levels for you, is there a little bit of a narrative in that?
I guess ween replying to your outreach email was probably one.
Speaker 1 (1:06:35)
Yeah, there's definitely been some points where I feel like, yeah, things are different now. ⁓ There was a point when I was in high school, ⁓ had these ⁓ two friends, they were brothers and I was over at their house quite a bit. Their dad worked ⁓ in a creative field.
and he was sawing, he saw some of the work that I was doing in high school and just little offhand comments said, ⁓ the work that you're making is better than the stuff I'm seeing come out of college right now. And I don't think he was like trying to like mentor me or anything like that. It was just like, I think maybe he was frustrated with the shit he was seeing coming out of college, but that was a massive.
⁓ confidence booster and just kind of gave me that that push I needed to just like keep hitting it hard. ⁓ That was one. ⁓ Whenever I started that business, Semi Sands, ⁓ I reached out to three different bands to try to solicit work, just just cold calls. ⁓ I can't remember what the third band was.
⁓ But one of them was the Dead Milk Man, Never Heard Back. And then the other one was Ween. And ⁓ whenever Mickey responded and responded positively and said they were getting ready to self-release an album and I could do the cover and everything, I mean, that was obviously super huge. ⁓ And then had like...
different levels of success when I was offering design services to clients. But obviously, the Pixies book was a big turning point. ⁓ Doing the book on butthole surfers really put me on the map ⁓ in terms of publishing. And then probably even the residents too later on. ⁓
I guess that maybe was the last one. ⁓
Speaker 2 (1:09:00)
I'm curious if we talk to you in 10 years, what this moment, it feels that this transition moment here, even like you mentioned that you're having some time to reflect, it's like I wonder then where in 10 years when you look back, ⁓ what the narrative will continue to unfold to be.
Speaker 1 (1:09:21)
I'll be like, yeah, when that TV show Sam and I did got picked up by HBO, wasn't that crazy?
Speaker 2 (1:09:29)
I hope that is definitely the answer. I forgot to ask too, your design, your graphic, your design work, your logo, your branding. ⁓ I didn't realize that you had, well, because I don't know you from that period and I don't really know you outside of your work with the books and with Sam, but ⁓ I was surprised at how many businesses locally
that I've seen your stuff without knowing that I've seen your stuff. Did you do something with A-Zip? I had no idea. I worked at A-Zip for three years when I was younger.
Speaker 1 (1:10:04)
Yeah.
So
whenever they first started out, ⁓ the owner, Brad, he knows the design tools pretty well. so he made the logo and just kind of came up with the brand. And then I came in and basically polished what he did. Just made some refinements to it. Wow. Cool.
Speaker 2 (1:10:35)
in beginning.
Speaker 1 (1:10:38)
they just have that was signed location
Speaker 2 (1:10:42)
Who else did you? Tin Man? You did Tin Man? ⁓
Speaker 1 (1:10:45)
10 man
geez ⁓
You're gonna have to cut out a lot of dead air.
Speaker 2 (1:10:55)
Yeah,
because I'm trying to think too. I just was on your website. ⁓
Speaker 1 (1:11:02)
Yeah, and the website, there's... I mean, I have at this point like over 25 years worth of work. And there's only just a few things on it. I really need to spend some more time and develop the website a little more. But I really just wanted to just hurry up and get it up so I could start working.
Speaker 2 (1:11:26)
Okay, interesting. Is it leading to work locally? Are you getting, or even beyond?
Speaker 1 (1:11:32)
A little bit of local work, I'm mostly focused on ⁓ national stuff. Yeah, okay. Mostly music stuff.
Speaker 2 (1:11:40)
Yeah, it's kind of like a nice side effect of Between starting Melodic Virtue and now, or like your old iteration of being a designer for Hire to now the people that you're connected with, it's probably a whole new world.
Speaker 1 (1:11:59)
⁓ yeah, my... I don't own a Rolodex, but if I did have one, it's a lot more full than it used to be. ⁓ And also, there are three potential book projects coming up. Like I won't be releasing them and thankfully not funding them. But ⁓ if the projects do end up going through, I'll be hired to design them.
Speaker 2 (1:12:25)
So that's not, so the actual bookmaking is not off the table. It's the you doing all the other back end heavy lifting risk taking. That's what has been shut down.
Speaker 1 (1:12:37)
Yeah, yeah, I won't be financing them anymore, you know, handling the warehouse in Austin, handling the warehouse in London, you know, just all the, all that crap. mean, I basically just turned into a business person and it's not what I wanted to do. I wanted to, I want to make shit. Yes. But it was, it ended up becoming such a small part of what I was doing.
Yeah. So it's nice to get back to actually designing and creating, you know, just making stuff again.
Speaker 2 (1:13:18)
Hey, thank you for listening to this show. That was Aaron Tanner with Aaron Tanner Designs. You can go to aarontanner.com to see all of his work, see his catalog, if you will, of his portfolio, I guess would be the appropriate term as a graphic visual artist and see his books, links to his articles and where his art can be found out in the world, including the MoMA, Smithsonian.
Rocking with a of Fame, baby. Big shit. Big shit coming from a little city. That's how we like to think about it here. Aaron is one of 12 people in Evansville working in music and the arts at a high level. ⁓ I'm just kidding. That's a very small number and I'm sure there's more people than that. ⁓ it's awesome. Aaron's it's inspiring to hear his story because it's not it's such uncommon work for.
a person from our little city of Evansville. I didn't even know where until like a year or two ago, probably two years ago. um, and I was just, it's, it's like every once in a while, somebody bubbles up out of somewhere that it comes on my radar. And I'm like, wait, what? There's somebody else here doing stuff. And now I've met quite a few people. Um, but anyway, you know, I think that if, if you're somebody who lives, uh,
frankly anywhere, honestly, if you are somebody who needs ⁓ some support or some clarity around your work, no matter where you're located, I wanna share about a new service I'm launching called Throughline Development. It's an artist development and project development service that's really aimed at helping you find clarity and helping you find a strategy around your...
your music or your music company that is aimed at sustainable revenue generating activities. These days, I if you're an artist, you're an entrepreneur, really. Even if you work in the music business, you're still like an entrepreneur because you might work at a big company. People flip-flop left and right all over the place, you know? And ⁓ who knows what the future has in store?
So if you're interested in growing your project or you feel stuck, you've hit a plateau, please check out artistdev.co. You'll find my email, you'll find contact info. You'll also find a Calendly portal to where if you're interested, you can schedule a free consultation meeting. It's just a free discovery call. We can hop on a call and talk about it it makes sense. What I was just telling an artist ⁓ earlier today was that it's interesting. I have a coach, I'm being coached.
So to offer that sort of service to artists, what's cool about it is, and just to kind of demystify a little bit, I think people think that, you're an artist coach, you're doing coaching now, you must, know, man, that's so cool. Like you can tell the artist, you know, you've got this position of authority, or the artist thinks that, or you think that, you know, people think, you're here to like tell me what to do. And that couldn't be further from the point, really. The point is to help you.
see areas within your project that are either low-hanging fruit for monetization or even just stuff that you're working on. Is there a way to do that more efficiently to where you can free up time to then go do something else that's more productive and that's growth oriented? Because ultimately we want to do this. Like we want this to happen, you know? And it's so easy to find yourself moving side to side. It's like, you know, I made this analogy earlier of you could be swimming in a puddle
and think you're making really progress, just be swimming in circles versus I'm swimming in a stream and I'm heading downriver and I'm moving south to north, you know what I mean? And it's not that, mean, creativity is all over the place, but you put these in containers that are oriented towards growth, towards something meaningful and sustainable, and now we're talking, now we're cooking. So anyway, go please check out artistev.co, find all the info.
And thank you so much for listening to this show. Honestly, we'll be back again next week.